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00:00Are we talking a little about psychosis, or are we on the other side of the border to the self-supporting?
00:20Narcissists, traumatists, psychopaths and energy-tubes.
00:24PsykologsprÄket har tatt seg inn i hverdagen, men hjelper det ogsÄ at vi mÄ bettere, og fÄr vi et bedre samhÀlle.
00:33Idriftsprofilen Ludmilla Engqvist og seljelpsgurien Gabor Maté er med oss litt senere, men fÞrst, velkommen hit.
00:40Artist Pernilla Valgren.
00:43Litteraturviter Ebba Witt BratstrĂžm.
00:46Lederskapsstrener Elaine Ecksverd.
00:48Professor i psykiatri Kristian Rutt.
00:51Og komiker Nisse Halberg.
00:54Og jeg vet jo at flere her kring dette bordet har jo gÄtt ganske mye i terapi, og da ble jeg jo nyfiken pÄ, hva har ni testat?
01:04AltsÄ Ebba, jeg begynner med deg, hva har du testat?
01:06Ja, det började pÄ 70-tallet, da testade jeg noe som heter primalterapi, eller primalskriksterapi, det er det du.
01:19Det kjennes veldig 70-tall.
01:21Ja, det er veldig basic.
01:25Det handler om at du skal gÄ tilbake til din forlossning.
01:29Vi bÊrer alle pÄ, Janov tror jeg han hette, sÄ.
01:33Vi bÊrer alle pÄ et trauma fra vÄr forlossning.
01:37Aha.
01:37SÄ det gÄr ut pÄ Igro?
01:39Det er ikke en forlossning man som kvinner har vĂŠrt gjennom.
01:42Du vet, du vÀntar, det er trÄngt, du skal gjennom, det er stressig, du skal gjennom den der trÄnga porten.
01:48Du lever med dette enormt trauma.
01:51Og sÄ skal du tilbake til din egen forlossning.
01:55Og sÄ skal du skrike dig ut, og da har du tagit makten over den.
02:00Ja, sÄ det er jo bullshit.
02:01Ja.
02:02Ja.
02:04Ja, det.
02:07Ja, jeg fik deg nesten der.
02:09Ja, ja, ja.
02:10Jeg ba, Ă„ herregud.
02:12Ja, det var jo skjĂžnt.
02:12Hva har du vĂŠrt gjennom?
02:14Hva har jeg vĂŠrt gjennom?
02:16Ja, men det er KBT, familjekonstellasjonsterapi, familjeterapi, noen liten knubbetant som eldar rĂžkelser.
02:25Og hun rĂžkte veldig mye.
02:27Det var i hennes legenhet.
02:28Jeg vet ikke hva det hette, men dit.
02:31Det var ikke sertifisert, men dit.
02:33Nei, hun hadde en affiske pÄ en elefant med fyra snablar.
02:37Det var hennes diplom.
02:39Hun hette Chaktera om para, eller noe.
02:41Det fungerer ikke.
02:42Men jeg vil testa masse, men jeg er frĂŠldst i KBT.
02:45Ja, det var det som fungeret mest for deg.
02:47Ja, gud ja.
02:48Ja, for du har hatt litt Ă„ kjĂŠmpa med.
02:49Ja, verkligen.
02:51Men det gikk jo bra.
02:53Ja, men sÄ fÄr du ha en tomljÞp pÄ det.
02:55Ja, det fanns.
02:56Men, Elaine, du foresprÄker jo terapi, ikke bare for deg selv, men for alle.
03:03Hva har vÊrt dine mest interessante erfaringer pÄ denne fronten?
03:06Ja, men om man ikke gÄr terapi, sÄ tror jeg at man kan bli en ganska vidrig mÀnniska.
03:10Jeg vet periode jeg ikke gjorde det.
03:13Jeg har jo gÄtt gruppterapi for traumabehandling, sju Är en gang i veckan, med enda traumadrabbade.
03:21Og det var jo lite tjatigt, men otroligt givande.
03:25Og sÄ har jeg gÄtt KBT for panikÄngest.
03:28Det var jo helt lysende.
03:29AlltsÄ, det forÊndrer jo hele livet, at gÄ KBT.
03:32SĂ„ hvordan ble det ditt beteende, da?
03:33Nei, jeg ikke gikk terapi.
03:36Eller?
03:37Ja, ja.
03:37Ja, men jeg var jo ganske arg.
03:39Til eksempel, jeg kom ut med en bok om mitt trauma 2016, og da var jo ikke jeg riktig klar med mitt trauma.
03:46SĂ„ da var jeg ganske arg.
03:48Jeg hadde en ordentlig offerkofta.
03:50Det var veldig sÄdÊr, for eller mot mig, og alle drabbade.
03:55SĂ„ da hadde jeg nog behĂžver litt...
03:56Du var litt i krig med verden, pÄ et sikt.
03:58Ja, det kan man jo se.
03:59Og tykte synd om meg selv.
04:01Du, Pernille, om man skal tro valgrensvÊrd, som gÄr pÄ Kanal 5, og som fÞlger deg og din familj,
04:10sÄ er du jo litt skeptisk til terapi.
04:14Ja, jeg er jo det.
04:17Har du ogsÄ lett til livet du, da?
04:20Nei, verkligen ikke.
04:21Jeg har mÄtt piss og gÄtt i terapi.
04:23Og jeg har gÄtt til olike terapeuter, og jeg kjente aldri at jeg fikk ut noe av det.
04:31Det som har hjulpet meg i livet nÄr jeg har mÄtt som sems, det er mine vÀnner.
04:36AlltsÄ, vÀnner som jeg kan prate med, elta, kloka vÀnner, som kommer med rÄd,
04:41eller sÀger, tenk si, eller tenk sÄ, og som kjenner meg uten og innan.
04:46Men du har testet terapi?
04:48Jeg har det, og jeg tyckte bare at jeg kjente som...
04:51Ă
h, nu skal jeg sitte her og bare, berÀtta.
04:53Ja, hvorfor er du her?
04:54Og sÄ sitte og berÊtte om mitt liv, og det bare kjente som at...
04:58Hun satt og, sÄnn, gud, vare herlig, hva smaskige detaljer jeg fÄr lyssna pÄ nu og veta.
05:03SĂ„ ja, jeg kjente meg aldri, liksom...
05:05Og sÄ satt de og lyst, nej, er det sÄ?
05:08Er det sÄ?
05:09Ja, nu er tiden ute, vet du.
05:11Med det fÄ ut noe, det var sÄ.
05:14Det sÀnder faktura.
05:16Ja, precis.
05:17Men kjenner du at det er lett for deg Ă„ Ăžppne opp?
05:20For det er jo en fremmed person.
05:21Or are you going to be Pernilla Wahlgren in the room?
05:26No, I'm very open to open up.
05:29I'm very open and can tell.
05:31I feel bad, I'm here for that and that and that.
05:33But the news that you need to work with...
05:36I don't have any of them.
05:39I don't have any door to open with.
05:41It's actually not helped me.
05:45My friends have helped me.
05:47My friends are really good therapists.
05:50But you can also drink alcohol with them.
05:52Which is nice.
05:53Would your family like you to go to therapy?
05:57My daughter has helped me.
05:59Bianca?
06:00Yes, but I have been in therapy.
06:02You should go to therapy now, mamma.
06:04You have so much in there.
06:06And I don't think I have that.
06:08So, my husband would like to go to therapy.
06:11And I can drive myself to that.
06:16You can do it for me.
06:18Yes, but that's what I can do.
06:20It can be good when you're two.
06:22But when you're yourself...
06:24I'm really good at helping my friends.
06:29I don't care about them.
06:31What are you talking about, Christian?
06:35What are you talking about?
06:36We're so different.
06:37We're so different.
06:38So, he thinks that we need to meet us.
06:43That we're so different.
06:45So, I understand him and he understand me.
06:47Is he more like you?
06:50Or is he more like you?
06:52Yes, he's much more like that.
06:54He's much more like that.
06:56He's much more like that.
06:58He's more like that.
06:59He's more like that.
07:00He's more like that.
07:01He's more like that.
07:02What's the problem?
07:04So, I'm a little easy going.
07:06And then it's hard for someone who's really like that.
07:10And then, to live with a person.
07:13And then I understand that parterapi is really good.
07:16But if I go with him one time,
07:19he'll say that he doesn't do it.
07:21It's fructansvÀrt trÄkigt.
07:22No, he'll just sit and hold on with him.
07:24Man fÄr lÀxor and that sort of thing.
07:26Is it KBT-parterapi?
07:28In parterapi, you don't have to do it.
07:30I've got so many...
07:31I've got so many...
07:32I've got to family therapy, parterapi...
07:34Go to my old age.
07:36One time.
07:38Thank you so much.
07:39Christian, how is it?
07:42Can you go for much in therapy?
07:44Yeah...
07:46If it doesn't help,
07:50I think that it can be too much.
07:53I'm interested in whether the society
07:56can be too much in therapy.
08:00If it's normal,
08:03it's suddenly a patient-like problem
08:06that you need to go into therapy.
08:08There's a little bit of a shift.
08:11When you hear that all children should go into therapy,
08:14all children should go into therapy.
08:15There's a little...
08:18What do you think about what Pernilla said?
08:21What do you think about that?
08:22What do you think about that?
08:24I've gone into therapy.
08:26It became a skill after two sessions.
08:29So, it's okay.
08:31So, it's okay.
08:32It's okay.
08:33It's okay.
08:34It's okay.
08:35It's okay.
08:36It's okay.
08:37It's okay.
08:38It's okay.
08:39It's okay.
08:40It's okay.
08:41It's okay.
08:42It's okay.
08:43It's okay.
08:44It's okay.
08:45It's okay.
08:46It's okay.
08:47It's okay.
08:48It's okay.
08:49It's okay.
08:50It's okay.
08:51It's okay.
08:52It's okay.
08:54I don't care about him so much.
08:57I can say, are you sick in your head?
09:01I don't mean that he is sick in your head.
09:04But he's really sad about it.
09:06I'm with you. You can never tell what you mean.
09:10But he can tell you how you land.
09:11Yes, and then I can tell you about it.
09:14So I've learned that I don't say it anymore.
09:16I think that it's fantastic to tell your feelings.
09:19I think that it's something that women in heterosexual relationships have.
09:25It's like a patent for women to tell them.
09:27It's really difficult for men to tell them.
09:30When men talk about feelings, they're cramped.
09:32And if they talk about feelings, they're macho men.
09:35So they come from the testosterone that your man has come from.
09:39But Pernilla is still there.
09:42Yes, she's still there.
09:44We say that I'm the grabber in the relationship.
09:46And he's more feminine.
09:49For those who don't talk, it's like a gubbsucker.
09:52What is it that's wrong?
09:54Are you a gubbsucker, Nissa?
09:56It's very complex.
09:58It's better that you pyser out all the time.
10:01Min tjej pyser out all the time, and I have full attention on how she knows.
10:08But if you test it, you don't want to do that.
10:12It's like you're a gnÀllig, krank man.
10:16And then I choose to just staple the cell.
10:20And to the end it explodes.
10:22And then it's a break and then you get it again.
10:24So of course you're going to do that.
10:26But I have a gubbsucker.
10:28It's a break and then it starts to go in several years.
10:32And with many different therapists.
10:34Here are some signs that it's time to change.
10:38It's a break and then it's time to go to a therapist.
10:41When the therapist takes off the court terminal already in the beginning of session.
10:46When the therapist says, can you tell me more about what you felt then?
10:52After that you, for the third time, have told me more about what you felt then.
10:56When Jukka Palmen i roomet vissnar under the meeting.
11:01When the therapist says that everything still doesn't depend on your mother.
11:06When you have a mistake to see on the therapist's comments after the session is over.
11:12When the therapist says that the pappersnÀsdukarna who stands out for the rest of the day.
11:20NĂ€r terapeuten gett upp hoppet, eller rent av hoppat.
11:29KÀnner du dig igen i det hÀr?
11:33Jag har en terapeut som gick över grÀnsen jÀttemycket.
11:37Hon kom med sin man pÄ min stand-up och satt lÀngst fram.
11:41NÀsta terapisation sÄ började hon med, vill du veta vad jag tyckte?
11:47Jag gick igen i tio minuter och gav mig en recension om min stand-up.
11:52Det Àr dags att byta terapeut.
11:56Ja, verkligen. DĂ„ var det dags.
11:58Men annars har jag kÀnt igen mig jÀttemycket.
12:00Ăr det sĂ„ att terapi Ă€r detsamma som att ta hand om sig sjĂ€lv?
12:07Vad tÀnker du?
12:08Jag tÀnker att det tar ansvar för sig sjÀlv.
12:10Att ta hand om sig sjÀlv och andra.
12:13SÄ att man inte gÄr runt och blir passivt aggressiv eller sÀger att du borde förstÄ eller tÀnka det.
12:18IstÀllet för att man sjÀlv berÀttar.
12:20Jag tycker att en vÀldigt bra frÄga Àr att frÄga, stÀlla sig sjÀlv, vad handlar det hÀr om egentligen?
12:25SÄ, ja det tar hand om sig sjÀlv.
12:27Vad tÀnker du?
12:28Jag tÀnker att terapi kan ju vara att fÄ behandling för paniksyndrom eller nÄgot annat problem som man har.
12:36Och ibland pratar vi lite om terapi som en slags sak för allt.
12:40Och det Àr vÀl den liksom...
12:43NÀr vi pratar om terapi som en slags allmÀn sjÀlvförbÀttring, en slags wellness-produkt liksom.
12:47Det Àr dÄ tror jag att det kan, men inte mÄste spÄra ur lite grann.
12:52SĂ„ du...
12:52Ja, det hÄller jag verkligen med om.
12:54Just som wellness-produkt, det finns ju ingenting som Àr sÄ lÀskigt som att gÄ i terapi.
12:59Du blir ju helt ensam med dig sjÀlv.
13:03SÄ om jag förstÄr det sÄ Àr det det att gÄ i terapi som en sÄn förebyggande, som att trÀna liksom, det ska man inte göra.
13:12Nej, det Àr snarare om du har...
13:15Som att du gÄr till tandlÀkaren om du fÄr tandverk.
13:19Det Àr inte svÄrare Àn sÄ.
13:20Man försöker gÄ till tandlÀkaren pÄ en Ärlig kontroll och sÄ sÀger du, det Àr ett begynande hÄl.
13:24Det hÀr ska vi ju ta och fixa.
13:26Ja.
13:27Okej, okej.
13:29Det var en stor medvetna som svarade nu.
13:32Att det kan vara bra att förekomma problem och att inte alltid ta tag i det nÀr det liksom, inte nÀr jag trÀffar flÀkten.
13:39Ja, skulle du dÄ gÄ i parterapi Àven nÀr det Àr liksom...
13:42Inte just parterapi kanske.
13:43Bra dagar.
13:44Nej, men alltsÄ det borde man göra.
13:47AlltsÄ istÀllet för att göra det nÀr det Àr...
13:48Hela livet liksom?
13:49Nej, men med jÀmna mellanrum.
13:51AlltsÄ det sÀger att det Àr en gÄng i halvÄret dÄ.
13:53Nej, men jag bara tÀnker att din man och din dotter sÀger att du, fÄr du gÄ?
13:57Nej, men det Àr ju som folk har sagt till mig ibland, du kanske inte borde vara hÀr, du bor inte sÄ bra, du pissar ner stÀmningen eller...
14:07Vad bygger de det pÄ?
14:09Nej, men han sÀger inte att jag borde gÄ i terapi.
14:10Ni borde gÄ?
14:11Han kanske sÀger att vi borde gÄ i parterapi för att förstÄ varandra.
14:16Sen gÄr det ju upp och ner i ett förhÄllande. Just nu tycker jag att vi förstÄr varandra vÀldigt bra.
14:19Men frÄgan blir liksom att det Àr bra att gÄ i terapi men betyder det att alla mÄste ta del av det?
14:25Det Àr vÀl det som blir frÄgan liksom.
14:27Ja, vad Àr svaret pÄ det?
14:29Insulin Àr bra för diabetes men ska alla ta insulin liksom?
14:33Men det Àr vÀl upp till var och en kÀnner jag.
14:35Det finns vÀl ingen tvÄng pÄ att man Àr en dÄlig mÀnniska om man inte gÄr i terapi?
14:39Nej, men det kÀnns ju... Du var ju inne pÄ det tidigare att man Àr en vidrig mÀnniska om man inte...
14:45Nej, men okej. Jag Àr inte sÄ kategoriskt, men jag tror ju att vi har en hel generation som kommer behöva gÄ i terapi.
14:52För vi förÀldrar har gett dem skÀrmar och de har liksom inte fÄtt uppleva oss nÀrvarande pÄ samma sÀtt som vi har fÄtt för vÄra förÀldrar.
15:01SĂ„ jag tror att det kommer bli mer normaliserat med terapi.
15:04Men tÀnker du att det ocksÄ handlar om, och det att gÄ i terapi ocksÄ kan handla om att optimalisera eller optimera, vad heter det?
15:13AlltsÄ, pÄ nÄgot sÀtt bli sitt beste jag?
15:16Vi Àr, precis som Pernilla sa, vi Àr mÀnniskor med fel och brister och Àgnar sitt liv Ät att försöka bli perfekt eller inte ha negativa kÀnslor och sÄ.
15:25Det Àr att sÀtta upp en felle Ät sig sjÀlv.
15:27Det Àr bÀttre att acceptera sig som man Àr och sÄklart om man har problem kan man ta tag av det.
15:33Det Àr jÀttebra om man blir sÄ bra man kan, men att vara fast i en slags cykel av olika dieter och sjÀlvförbÀttringsprojekt hela tiden slutar inte bra.
15:44Elaine, vad gör du för att, utom att gÄ i terapi, vad gör du annat för att pÄ nÄgot sÀtt bli en bÀttre person, en bÀttre utgavad person?
15:54Jag Àr superterapi-mÀnniskan hÀr.
15:56Ja, du blir det.
15:58FörlÄt, det blir din roll i den hÀr...
16:00Ja, det blir min roll hÀr, jag mÀrker det hÀr.
16:02Nej, men jag tycker oftast nÀr vi pratar med varandra sÄ Àr det transaktioner av rapporter.
16:08Hur Àr lÀget? Och sÄ berÀttar man inte hur man mÄr egentligen.
16:11MÀn till exempel skulle behöva utrymme att fÄ prata pÄ riktigt.
16:14Jag vet inte, brukar ni prata kÀnslor, du och dina kompisar?
16:18Ja...
16:20Det dÀr var inte mig, va? Var det inte det?
16:22Va?
16:23Nej, men jag tror att kvinnor har ett bilde av att mÀn inte pratar kÀnslor som Àr fel. Eller?
16:31Gör du det?
16:32Nej, det tror jag.
16:34Ăr det rĂ€tt?
16:35Ăr det bara jag?
16:37Ăr det bara frĂ„gan som du gör, dĂ„ vill man ha ett svar.
16:39NÀr mÀn frÄgar varandra hur det Àr sÄ Àr svaret bra.
16:42Och det kan betyda att jag vann en miljon igÄr eller Àr död om en vecka.
16:47Allt Àr runt inom bra...
16:49Ja, men precis.
16:50Och det Àr okej.
16:51Man vill inte veta sÄ mycket hela tiden.
16:54Men jag ser ju att Nisse Àr ju Äpenbart en man som pratar kÀnslor.
16:58Ja, det Àr jag.
16:59Gud, ja.
17:00Ja, sÄ kan man inte sÀga att mÀn inte pratar kÀnslor.
17:02Nej.
17:03BÄde Nisse och jag kan prata om nÄgot som helst.
17:05Skillnaden om man som jag tycker att jag har vÀnner som fungerar som varandras terapeuter.
17:11Det Àr ju för att vi sitter ju inte bara jag sÀger det.
17:14Och bara, ja du har rÀtt, gÄ hem och sÀg till honom det eller han beter sig.
17:18Utan vi sitter bara...
17:19Men Àrligt talat, jag tycker du Àr lite hÄrd nÀr du tÀnker sÄ.
17:22AlltsÄ vi sitter och diskuterar.
17:24Men Àr det mÀn eller kvinnor tycker du som behöver terapi mest?
17:30Ja du, jag tror att vÀldigt mÄnga mÀn och sÀrskilt i min generation skulle verkligen mÄ bÀttre av att fÄ hjÀlp och stöd i en samtalsterapi tror jag.
17:45Sen tror jag kanske KBT kan fungera för yngre mÀn som ÀndÄ Àr lite öppnare och har levt i en annan kultur.
17:56Och bara beskriv skillnaden pÄ det. Hur gÄr processen till i KBT till skillnaden pÄ samtalsterapi?
18:03Ja, jag har gÄtt i en KBT-terapi. Det var inte bra.
18:07Och det handlade om att jag skulle göra saker till nÀsta gÄng.
18:11Och det gick Ă„t skogen.
18:14Men du rekommenderar för unga mÀn.
18:17Du hater unga mÀn.
18:20Nej, Fredrik, nu tycker jag. Nej, jag Àlskar unga mÀn. Jag har fött...
18:27Allt blir fel dÄ. Allt blir fel.
18:31Jag menar att jag har fött fyra söner.
18:35Ja, förlÄt.
18:38Om nu mÀn mÄste gÄ sÄ mycket i terapi Àr det inte mÀrkligt att...
18:43AlltsÄ, kvinnor pratar mer om sina kÀnslor tror vi.
18:48Pratar mer om relationer, gÄr mer i terapi.
18:50Men mÄr ÀndÄ sÀmre Àn mÀn.
18:53Och det beror ju pÄ att de dÄ möter mÀn som inte har koll pÄ sina kÀnslor.
18:59SĂ„ det blir ju som...
19:01Du blir relationsexperten i relationen.
19:06Jag blir ocksÄ nyfiken pÄ vad du tÀnker om det.
19:08Vad det hÀr sÀger om samhÀllet.
19:11Att vi...
19:13Ta ditt perspektiv som sprÄkvetare, som litteraturvetare.
19:18Det hÀr har pÄverkat vÄrt sprÄk.
19:21Och sett att vi pratar om varandra och oss sjÀlva pÄ.
19:25Med ord som vi inte anvÀnt för.
19:27Ja, och jag Àr vÀldigt kritisk till det hÀr exempelvis.
19:30Nu talar vi bara om att folk Àr narcissister.
19:33Och det beror ju pÄ att vi har vissa presidenter.
19:36BÄde i vÀst och i öst som helt klart Àr det.
19:40Men nÀr man lÀser sÄ hÀr rubriker som...
19:42De hÀr tio frÄgorna ska du inte stÀlla till narcissist lÀser jag plötsligt.
19:47Och dÄ tÀnker jag, det Àr ju helt fel.
19:49Det Àr ju de frÄgorna du ska stÀlla.
19:51Du ska begrÀnsa antalet ja-sÀgare.
19:54För att...
19:56DĂ„ har narcissisterna ingen chans att bre ut sig.
20:00Det Àr vÀl ocksÄ ett vÀldigt typiskt för Stockholm just nu eller Sverige att alla har ett...
20:05Allas ex Àr en narcissist.
20:07Det Àr liksom kryllar av narcissister.
20:09Ja, men det Àr ju ett urvattnande...
20:11Det Àr liksom...
20:12Det betyder ju sÄklart ocksÄ att jag Àr helt oskyld av alla problem.
20:15Ja, gud.
20:16Utan det var narcissisten eller borderline eller vad det Àr.
20:19Men det Àr inte bara att folk anvÀnder de orden ocksÄ.
20:21Det har liksom blivit sÄdana...
20:23Ja.
20:24De urvattnas helt, kÀnns som.
20:25Ja, det Àr riktigt.
20:26Eller Àr det helt urvattnat i solerna?
20:28Ja...
20:30AlltsÄ jag tÀnker att jag vill gÄ lÀngre.
20:32Man borde ju göra en rÀttspsykiatrisk undersökning pÄ varandra makthavare.
20:36AlltsÄ innan man kliver upp och ska leda ett land.
20:38SÄ jag menar, det borde vara obligatoriskt med terapi för att man ska leda ett land.
20:43Eller vad sÀger du?
20:44Men du...
20:45Ja, det tycker jag.
20:46Man mÄste ju kolla diagnoserna.
20:48TvÄ veckor i Huddinge Àr inlÄst liksom.
20:50Allt var det lagom.
20:51Ja, det tycker jag.
20:52Men Àr det inte ocksÄ nÄgot sjÀlvupptaget med att gÄ och vara sÄ upptatt av sig sjÀlv och sitt mÄn?
21:00Vad tÀnker du?
21:01Ăr det nĂ„got sjĂ€lvupptaget med att gĂ„ sĂ„ mycket i terapi?
21:04Eller?
21:05Nej, alltsÄ hÄll det för dig sjÀlv.
21:07AlltsÄ det blir lite som crossfit.
21:09Ja.
21:10Men folk som hÄller pÄ med crossfit tjater om det sÄ mycket.
21:13GÄ i din terapi och försöka vara bÀttre.
21:16Men du vill inte berÀtta det för alla.
21:17Nej, du behöver fan inte trycka ner dig i halsen pÄ alla.
21:19Nej, och sen tycker jag det Àr jobbigt.
21:22Bianca sa en grej till mig nÀr vi pratar.
21:24DÄ sa hon sÄhÀr.
21:25Du borde gÄ i terapi för Kristians skull.
21:27Och du sa sÄhÀr.
21:28Nej, om jag ska gÄ i terapi sjÀlv, dÄ ska jag göra det för min skull.
21:32Inte för nÄgon annans skull.
21:33Det mÄste vÀl ÀndÄ vara rÀtt tÀnkt.
21:36Eller?
21:37Nej.
21:38Jag tycker parterapi, det gör jag för vÄr skull.
21:42Ja.
21:43Men om jag ska gÄ i egen terapi för att jag ska förÀndras eller bli nÄgon som han passar ihop med.
21:49Nej, det Àr inte.
21:50Nej.
21:51Nej, men det behöver inte vara intentionen.
21:53Jag tÀnker, nÀr jag retade mig pÄ gubbsuckar.
21:55Det var ju nÄgon sÄn dÀr Àrlig vans som jag ocksÄ har.
21:58Som sa, men vad Àr hönan och Àgget dÄ?
22:00TandknÀller du inte ganska mycket?
22:03Och det Àr sÄ att jag behandlar min mans som en odudlig vaktmÀstare som borde förstÄ hur jag tÀnker.
22:08Och dÄ kÀnde jag att dÄ Àr det bra om man gÄr lite i terapi för hans skull.
22:12Vi ska ocksÄ komma lite tillbaka till detta med trauma som Àr ett stort tema inom terapi.
22:19För vad Àr egentligen ett trauma och hur preger det vÄr syke?
22:24Den kanadensiske lÀkaren Gabor Mati Àr en kÀrne pÄ sjÀlvhjÀlpshimlen och har gitt miljoner av följere ett nytt syn pÄ vad ett trauma Àr.
22:35Och du Àr med oss nu, dr. Gabor Mati.
22:38VĂ€lkommen!
22:40Tack!
22:42Tack!
22:44Do du think that your huge following on YouTube and social media and all over is a sign of the times?
22:53It is!
22:54Jag har skrivit om det hÀr för 27-28 Är och all of a sudden jag blev en superstar.
23:01You know, the world has discovered me and it's not because of me.
23:06It's because of the world is waking up to the importance of healing and trauma.
23:12And when you talk about trauma, what do you mean exactly?
23:16Well, it's a very precise word. Trauma is a Greek word meaning a wound.
23:22So trauma is when you're being wounded.
23:26So trauma is not what happens to you. Trauma is what happens inside you as a result of what happens to you.
23:34To give you an example, if I get a blow on the head, that's not the trauma. That's the traumatic event.
23:41The trauma is the concussion. So the trauma is a heal as a wound.
23:47It could be physical. It could be psychological.
23:50And of course, even psychological wounds have their physical manifestations in the body.
23:57So trauma is an unhealed wound. And a lot of people carry these wounds.
24:01Because in our language, we often talk about trauma as experiencing war or an accident or abuse or something very grave and very dramatic.
24:13No, I understand. That's what people talk about it. But not everything that's painful and stressful is traumatic.
24:23And the same thing can happen to two people. Two people can have experienced a loss.
24:29One could be traumatized. The other might not be. It depends on circumstances.
24:34Yeah. And what would that be? If I understand you right, trauma is sort of the reaction to a traumatic event.
24:43Exactly.
24:44What are the factors that decides how we experience that, how we react and how much traumatized we get?
24:52There are a number of factors, but two major ones. One is how sensitive you are. The other factor is social, though environmental.
25:03The biggest aspect of trauma that happens to children is that they're alone with their feelings.
25:09If a child feels pain, but they can share that and it's understood and heard and validated, they no need to be traumatized.
25:18But when we're alone with it, we tend to get traumatized. So it's sensitivity and whether we're alone or whether we get support.
25:28But if I understand you right, you believe that we're all possible victims of trauma.
25:36I don't like to use the word victim because victim means that you were helpless and you're at the effect of somebody else.
25:45That may have been true in the first place. Like, for example, the child who's sexually abused is a victim, but they don't have to stay a victim.
25:57I'm here with with a few guests in my studio, as you know, and one of them is is Professor Christian Rick, professor in psychiatry.
26:06And I just want to hear your reaction to what Gabor says here.
26:11My concern, which we will discuss later in this show, I guess, is that sometimes trauma is used as a one as a universal explanation for almost any kind of symptom or problem, etc.
26:28And that's maybe when it can also become problematic.
26:35Do you agree, Gabor, that sometimes it can also be misused as a term and as an explanation?
26:44Yes and no. Sometimes people will say, I organized a picnic and I prepared this beautiful food and then it rained and I was traumatized.
26:56No, you weren't. You were just disappointed. You know, you might have been upset, but you weren't traumatized.
27:02That's on the one hand. On the other hand, as a physician, I can tell you that whether you study autoimmune disease or malignancy or depression or anxiety or bulimia or any number of afflictions,
27:20often there is trauma underneath it. And this is not sufficiently recognized by the medical profession, sometimes even by the psychiatric profession and certainly not by the schools and by the legal profession.
27:34You talk often about children left too early from their parents being abandoned or I mean, like we do all the time in Scandinavia with childcare, you know, with what we call the daycare in Scandinavia.
27:53For millions of years and our own species, homo sapiens, for nearly 150,000 years, we lived in families, in clans, in tribes, in extended community groupings where children were with the parents and the adults the whole day.
28:15It's a very new phenomenon to have the children separate from the parents first thing in the morning and not see them the whole day.
28:23Now, that would be okay if the daycare workers were trained to be emotionally supportive, not just physical caregivers, but the children need adult attachments, emotional attachments.
28:38And when that attachment is broken, those children suffer.
28:42So you have a lot of anxiety, a lot of bullying, a lot of kids get addicted to the internet, they connect to each other, lose the connection with the adults.
28:54It's a huge problem in modern society.
28:56So on the one hand, we could send children to daycare as long as they were emotionally taken care of there, but often they're not.
29:07They're physically taken care of, but not emotionally.
29:10Dr. Gabor Mati, thank you so much for being with us tonight.
29:13Thank you very much.
29:15Thank you, thank you.
29:17AltsÄ, det her handler jo om traumer da, i veldig stor grad.
29:25Og det er jo, i vÄr virkelighet sÄ er jo det et veldig stort begrep, det er veldig mykje vi kaller for traumer, og Gabor gjÞr jo ogsÄ det.
29:36TĂŠnker du at det er uproblematisk?
29:40Nu blir det jo svÄrt, hur vi skal anvende ordet traumer her.
29:43Men om vi sier traumatiske hendelser forut, det har jo vĂŠrt Auschwitz, voldtĂŠkt, tydlige hemske events.
29:52Det har man sen 1980 kallar man det för PTSD som man kan drabbas av efterÄt.
29:58Och sen kan man sÀga att det vi ocksÄ pratar om, att man har börjat anvÀnda det begreppet mycket vidare för bÄde kanske smÄsaker men kanske ocksÄ för andra typer av hÀndelser av typen min mamma sÄg inte mig för mitt autentiska jag nÀr jag var ett barn.
30:17Och det Àr liksom en stor vidgning av vad vi pratar om, dÀr det lite kan bli sÄ att nÀstan allt kan förklaras av det hÀr och nÀstan vilka problem som helst kan anses ha det.
30:30Ja, har jag rÀtt i det?
30:32Jag Àr inte psykologen hÀr, men jag blir nyfiken för jag menar, nÀr du sÀtter krig och sen sÄ nÄgon som inte blivit sedd av sina förÀldrar.
30:42Men Àr man i ett krig och har förÀldrar som Àlskar en, Àr det inte hemskt att vara i fred och inte bli sedd? Det blir vÀl ett krig inuti?
30:50Mm, men jag tÀnker att det finns liksom ÀndÄ hÀndelser som Àr i allmÀnhet mycket farligare att bli utsatt för liksom dödshot eller liksom allvarliga liksom övergrepp mot en integritet och sÄ.
31:08Det Àr ÀndÄ liksom...
31:10Ska man verkligen jÀmföra lidande pÄ det sÀttet? Det beror vÀl helt pÄ hur... Jag menar, jag har varit utsatt för trauma som liten, men jag har vÀnner som sÀger att, ja men mina förÀldrar sÄg inte mig, men det gÄr inte att jÀmföra med dig, men jag ser ju hur dÄligt de mÄr.
31:23Mm.
31:24Jag bÀr ju inte en större offerkofta eller det vill jag inte ha överhuvudtaget.
31:27Ja, men om vi inte jÀmför lidanden alls, dÄ blir det ju sÄ att allt lidande kan förklaras pÄ samma sÀtt.
31:35Det beror ju pÄ hur dÄligt du mÄr.
31:37Mm.
31:39Jag menar, hur vi reagerar?
31:42Men om vi sÀger dÄ, nÀr jag cyklar till filmhuset för den hÀr inspelningen, dÄ blir jag överfallen av ett kriminellt gÀng som knipsar av med alla mina fingrar med en hÀcksax.
31:53Det skulle de flesta mÀnniskor tÀnka att det hÀr Àr en allvarligt traumatisk hÀndelse med hög risk för hemska psykiatriska följder för mig.
32:02Mm.
32:04Jag tycker att det Àr tvÄ hemska hÀndelser.
32:07Jag har tÀnkt att det inte automatiskt kommer leda till katastrofala psykiska följder för mig.
32:13Jag tycker att jÀmförelsen haltar. Det Àr vÀl snarare att man kommer hem frÄn skolan till sina förÀldrar och de knipsar av den mÀnskliga kontakten och möter dig kÀnslomÀssigt mot att man blir vÄldtagen slagen nÄgon gÄng.
32:26Mm.
32:27Det Àr tvÄ hemska hÀndelser. Varför fÄr inte den ena kalla det för ett trauma dÄ? Enligt gabromater kan det vara det.
32:33Ja, alltsÄ man fÄr kalla det vad som helst, tÀnker jag dÄ. Jag bestÀmmer ju inte Ànnu om sprÄket i Sverige.
32:41Men...
32:42Men...
32:43Det gör jag.
32:45Men vad tÀnker du nÀr du hör det hÀr?
32:47Nej, jag tycker att det blir den hÀr nivelleringen. SÄ jag hÄller med hÀr att det Àr olika...
32:53Jag förstÄr ju att du, Elaine, du tÀnker att det Àr upplevelsen. Och det Àr ju riktigt. Om du upplever att du blir traumatiserad Àr ju vÀldigt viktigt för dig.
33:06Men det Àr ju ocksÄ sÄ att... Du var ju inne pÄ att vi projicerar ocksÄ skulden pÄ andra och det finns en sÄdan tendens nÀr det dÀr mamma ser mig inte.
33:18Men mam-shaming Àr ju en nationalsport. Och det gÄr ju att placera allt i mamma. Det mamma inte gjorde. Det Àr ju...
33:28Men tĂ€nk, Ă€r det bra att grĂ€va i allt och vĂ€nda varje sten? Ăr det nĂ„got... Om du hade gjort det... Tror du att det Ă€r nĂ„got i dig som bor i dig som hade kommit...
33:40AlltsÄ som hade blivit... Du hade blivit pÄ en mÄte mer optimalisert.
33:45Fast jag har verkligen vÀnt pÄ varenda sten i mitt liv. Under de Ären...
33:49Ja, det Àr ingenting som gömmer sig dÀr.
33:51Nej, nej, nej. Jag har inte sopat under mattan. Tror mig. Jag har...
33:55Men idag mÄr jag sÄ himla bra och dÄ förstÄr jag inte varför jag ska gÄ i terapi nÀr jag Àntligen mÄr bra.
34:01Bara för att det Àr nÄgonting man ska göra.
34:04Du slipper. Ja, tack.
34:11Jag liksom fastnar lite med liknelsen med cykeln och fingrarna dÀr. SÄ jag bara... Jag tyckte det var en sÄn otrolig bild.
34:18PÄ vilket sÀtt dÄ?
34:20Nej, men det var bara sÄ jÀvla grovt.
34:24Kastrationskomplex.
34:25Det Àr sÄ mycket svÄra ord ocksÄ. Absolut.
34:28För jag har ju varit jÀttehypokondis hela mitt liv.
34:31Men det Àr dÀrför jag har gÄtt sÄ mycket terapi. För att det...
34:35Först var det fysiska sjukdomar. Sen nÀr jag inte fick HIV och galna kosjuka.
34:39SÄ blev det psykiska sjukdomar. Att jag var rÀdd för att bli galen och sÄ.
34:43Och att jag var rÀdd för att tro att jag var min syster och hit och dit.
34:47Som vi alla har gjort.
34:49Wow!
34:50Vad intressant!
34:52Och dÄ grÀvde jag och sa, var fan, hur kom det hÀr ifrÄn dÄ?
34:56Och dÄ var det nÀr jag var liten, fem Är, nÀr jag kille gav mig nÄt godis.
34:59Och sen nÀr jag hade Àtit den sÄ sa han, det dÀr Àr ett dödspiller.
35:02Du har 15 minuter kvar att leva.
35:04Ă
h, jÀklar!
35:05Och dÀr var min första panikattack.
35:07SÄ om man tÀnker tillbaka pÄ det sÄ kan det vara bra att vÀnda pÄ de dÀr scenerna ibland.
35:11Och fÄ en förklaring pÄ varför man har reagerat.
35:14Men kan det kanske bli det hÀr att vÀnda pÄ scener och sÄnt?
35:18Kan det kanske bli fort en del av ens identitet?
35:21Om man har dÄ ett hittat ett trauma som man har prÀglat det Àn?
35:24Eller sÄ kan man bygga en hel identitet utav ett traumat?
35:27Men i den hÀr typen av program eller sÄ, eller andra sÄdana.
35:31DÄ Àr det ju sÄklart en viss valuta att ha nÄgot att berÀtta om sig sjÀlv.
35:36Som fÄr mig att framstÄ som autentisk och inte bara en trÄkig person.
35:39Som ingen vet nÄgonting om.
35:41Och det Àr ju nÄgot som sociala medier gör ganska mycket.
35:44AlltsÄ att skapa den hÀr falska nÀrheten.
35:47DÀr dÄ en liksom expansiv traumakultur kan bli en del av det.
35:53Det vill sÀga att det hÀr Àr min social valuta.
35:56Andra mÀnniskor ser mig mer.
35:58Jag tycker man kan se det i vanliga tv-programmer.
36:00Ja, en autenticitet.
36:02Som man Àr riktig.
36:04Det Àr viktigt liksom, ja.
36:06Vad sÀger du om vÄrt samhÀlle?
36:08Det att vi hÄller pÄ och snackas om?
36:10Jag vill tillbaka.
36:13DÄ pÄ min tid det fanns nevrotiker och sen fanns det hysteriker.
36:16Och var man nu nevrotiker sÄ var det bÀttre Àn att vara hysteriker.
36:20Det var sÄ enkelt.
36:22Och jag tÀnker att verkligen besvÀrligt Àr ju att om man blir fackad sÄ att sÀga.
36:26Jag hamnar i ett fack alltsÄ menar jag.
36:28Jaha!
36:29Jag tror att det blev lite ungdomar.
36:30Jaha!
36:31Jaha!
36:32Jaha!
36:33Jaha!
36:34Jaha!
36:35Jaha!
36:36Jaha!
36:37Jaha!
36:38Jaha!
36:39Jaha!
36:40Jaha!
36:41Jaha!
36:42Jaha!
36:43Jaha!
36:44Jaha!
36:45Jaha!
36:46Jaha!
36:47Jaha!
36:48Jaha!
36:49Jaha!
36:50Jaha!
36:51Jaha!
36:52Jaha!
36:53Jaha!
36:54Jaha!
36:55Jaha!
36:56Jaha!
36:57Jaha!
36:58Jaha!
36:59Jaha!
37:00Jaha!
37:01Jaha!
37:02Jaha!
37:03Jaha!
37:04Jaha!
37:05Jaha!
37:06Jaha!
37:07Jaha!
37:08Jaha!
37:09Jaha!
37:10Jaha!
37:11Jaha!
37:12Jaha!
37:13Jaha!
37:14Jaha!
37:15Jaha!
37:16Jaha!
37:17Jaha!
37:18Jaha!
37:19Jaha!
37:20Jaha!
37:21Jaha!
37:22Jaha!
37:23Jaha!
37:24Jaha!
37:25that we should be perfect, that we can live a life that is optimal.
37:32I'm actually against success.
37:351-10, where are you at?
37:38Oh, I should say, it sounds like a 10.
37:42I'm so happy.
37:44I live a 10-10.
37:48We have it not so in Norway, just this week.
37:54We have met Nordstadt to ask 1000 svenskers.
37:59It's a statistical representative choice from the whole country.
38:03If they have gone to therapy,
38:05and look here,
38:06just one of three svenskers have gone to therapy.
38:10But in which part do you think it's normal to go to therapy?
38:16The Parti needs it.
38:18It was not the question.
38:20In which part do you think it's normal to go to therapy?
38:23The...
38:26The Second Parti...
38:28The Second Parti needs it.
38:29It's very clear to look at this.
38:32It's the Venstre-partists who have gone to therapy.
38:35It's not so many there as in the other smaller parties.
38:38But ok.
38:40Funks of the same therapy.
38:41And see here.
38:42The thing you have different feelings about,
38:45if you have gone to therapy.
38:47Yes,
38:48sier more than 8-10 who have tried.
38:50No,
38:51sier the half of those who have not gone to therapy.
38:54Yes,
38:55if you haven't gone to therapy,
38:56you can't tell them.
38:57No.
38:58We gave them a chance then.
39:00Yes.
39:01But ok.
39:02But ok.
39:03Helt ehrlich.
39:04I've thought that the mental health also uses as an excuse for this.
39:09Look at this.
39:11Over 60% misstates this.
39:14Is it offensive?
39:16Yes.
39:17I use it as an excuse for this.
39:19You've always had it?
39:20Yes.
39:21Yes.
39:22I'm just going to sit and focus on this.
39:25I'm really going to sit and focus on this.
39:27Yes.
39:28Yes.
39:29Yes.
39:30Yes.
39:31Yes.
39:32Yes.
39:33Yes.
39:34Yes.
39:35Yes.
39:36Yes.
39:37Yes.
39:38Yes.
39:39Yes.
39:40Yes.
39:41Yes.
39:42Yes.
39:43Yes.
39:44Yes.
39:45Yes.
39:47Yes.
39:48Yes.
39:50Yes.
39:51Yes.
39:52Yes.
39:53You have prodigal
39:55Yes.
39:56Yes.
39:58Yes.
40:00Yes.
40:01Yes.
40:02Meaningful,
40:03yes.
40:04Yes.
40:05It's tough as I get Don.
40:06Look HD,
40:07yes.
40:08No.
40:09Yes.
40:10Yes.
40:11Yes,
40:12but of course when you're a real
40:12Then you're in with EKG and speed.
40:15People are over and over, so I'm going to get upset.
40:20But you're a bit stressed. Then I'm going to take it, Kragen.
40:23I want to be able to do it.
40:26You can have panic and angest without having to go in.
40:29You can just hyperventilere.
40:32I know.
40:34How do you do?
40:35Just that I've got it sometimes, or I've got it sometimes.
40:40When you hyperventilere.
40:42But as a scene-skrekk, or?
40:43No, I was pissed. I had a lot of the diagnosis at the same time.
40:48So I was not so good.
40:50So that's why I'm very glad that I sit here and say 10, today.
40:55Thank you very much.
40:57To last we were asking.
40:59What kind of a friend you'd have ever had as a relationship with?
41:05What do you think folks are doing?
41:08If you could choose?
41:10Mark Levengaard.
41:12Yeah, Edvard Blom.
41:13Okay, shall we follow up on this?
41:16Leif Levengaard.
41:18Mark Levengaard.
41:20No, it's just a man.
41:21No, it's just a man.
41:22It's just a man, and what do you say?
41:24Oh, he wants to go too much Persson.
41:25Oh, he wants to go too much Persson.
41:27Oh, he wants to go too much Persson.
41:29Mellom Persson and Persbrandt.
41:31The man who's in the name is Pernilla Valgren.
41:34No, I'm in.
41:36I'm in.
41:38So small and poor.
41:42Come to me.
41:44For what short conversations you can do.
41:46So good.
41:48Good.
41:50In the northern northern of Sweden,
41:52it is far between people
41:54and even more between psychologists.
41:56But the landowners, however,
41:58take time for a little conversation therapy in Winterberg.
42:04We are in Kitki and JĂ€rvi.
42:08It's more from the French border.
42:16You're glad when you meet people.
42:18When you talk to people, you talk about how you feel.
42:22How many apples do you have?
42:24How many apples do you have?
42:26Take a cake.
42:28Should it be cold or a bit?
42:30Today is Friday.
42:32Today it's Friday.
42:34Today we're going to go out to the stores.
42:36We're going to go out to the stores.
42:38We're going to go out to the stores.
42:40It's 34 degrees out there.
42:44For the customers,
42:48this is much more than a normal food.
42:50They have been sick a whole week.
42:52Especially now,
42:54when it's really cold,
42:56they are sick.
42:58People are like a psychologist.
43:00If they are missing an anthology
43:02or something,
43:04they can really take time to sit down
43:06and sit down and talk.
43:08Is it research?
43:10All of them are for each other.
43:12It's time for each other to say
43:14that we're going to go out to the end
43:16of the rest of the day.
43:18It's very rare in the kvÀll.
43:20We took a drink of coffee.
43:23It's not what we do.
43:25Back to the store.
43:30Did Sandra come with a goodie?
43:32No, I forgot it.
43:33Socker, it doesn't smell anything.
43:36They had a sandscape so that they felt sad.
43:40Thank you, Pallion.
43:50We're going to continue in the program.
43:52Elaine, you're also going to continue.
43:54Thank you, Elaine.
43:58Our next guest,
44:00she was an elsked freedom star
44:03with OS and VM-guld
44:05until she went in 2001
44:07for a doping.
44:08She was a cancer,
44:10and a hard depression
44:12and 20 years on the return
44:14from the Swedish government.
44:16Today she is back to Sweden
44:18to give both life and education
44:20a new chance.
44:21Welcome to Ludmilla Heinqvist.
44:29I think about you
44:30when we sat here and talked.
44:32You grew up in the Soviet Union.
44:35Yes.
44:36There wasn't much focus
44:37on the month
44:38when you were young.
44:39Absolutely not.
44:40I've never heard
44:43the name of a psychologist
44:45or a psychologist.
44:47If you could break up,
44:49you'd have to move forward.
44:50But one thing
44:51that was very common
44:53in the old Soviet Union,
44:55was that
44:56if you were poor,
44:58you would go to the aunt.
45:00You called me.
45:02No matter what time,
45:04they called me
45:05or called me
45:06and said,
45:07I need help.
45:08I need to talk about it.
45:09Did you talk about it?
45:10Yes,
45:11not me,
45:12but I knew
45:13that my parents did it.
45:15And then they sat
45:16with alcohol,
45:18vodka,
45:19tea,
45:20tea,
45:21coffee,
45:22tea,
45:23with lots of honey
45:24and syl.
45:26And then they sat
45:27and drank,
45:28and drank,
45:29and talked,
45:30and I know
45:32that it helped many.
45:33It was a great collaboration.
45:35So,
45:36yeah.
45:37Yeah.
45:38It was wonderful.
45:39It was...
45:41You started very early
45:44with tea,
45:45and I mean tea.
45:46It was not like here
45:48where you started playing.
45:50No.
45:51It was life and death
45:52from day one.
45:53Especially in Norway,
45:54the Olympic game.
45:56Yeah, exactly.
45:57I think so.
45:58It's true.
45:59It's true.
46:00I came from,
46:02and they came from
46:03Dages.
46:04I remember that
46:05we had to play all the time,
46:07and then,
46:08if you were to play
46:10with a prepped,
46:11as I did,
46:12then all of them
46:13counted.
46:14They counted
46:15on the right,
46:16and they counted
46:17who won.
46:18And the one who won
46:19got a present,
46:20and the other didn't.
46:22But no one was sad,
46:24because they thought
46:25it was so good
46:26that the one who won won
46:28got it.
46:29And I remember myself
46:30when I first
46:31went to my training
46:33with a lot of
46:35300 children,
46:36I think I went to
46:37the training
46:38and I played
46:39with different things,
46:40and looked at how
46:41they were able to do
46:42all the things,
46:43to climb,
46:44and to all the things
46:45that I won all the things.
46:47And the one who won
46:49was green,
46:50he got one kilo of goodies.
46:51So I sat with a
46:52pause,
46:53and so.
46:54And 300 people
46:55looked at me,
46:56and all of them were hungry.
46:58How did you do that?
47:00I did
47:02with the goodies
47:03with them
47:04who I lived with
47:05in the building,
47:06but the other were hungry.
47:08But this
47:09is to move up
47:10in this type of system,
47:11where you
47:12are going to
47:13the winner
47:14so clearly,
47:15how did it form
47:16your personality?
47:17I think
47:19that
47:20it is still
47:21the winner
47:22of course.
47:23It doesn't change.
47:25I think
47:26that
47:27I have been in
47:29Sweden
47:30and here
47:31is the system
47:32that
47:33children
47:34should
47:35play.
47:36And
47:37children
47:38should not
47:39win.
47:40But
47:41I also think
47:42that
47:43it is
47:44overdriven.
47:45On what
47:46it is
47:47that
47:48you
47:49must
47:50learn
47:51the
47:53instinct
47:54to
47:56do
47:57results,
47:58to
47:59do
48:00results,
48:01to
48:02do
48:03work.
48:04that
48:05that
48:06you
48:07have to
48:08win.
48:09For me
48:10it is so.
48:11And
48:12you can't say to
48:13anyone
48:14that you don't have
48:15preestered,
48:16even in the
48:17I talked to
48:18for the
48:19training
48:20in
48:21Busson,
48:22the Olympic
48:23community
48:24sports center.
48:25It was a
48:26guy who
48:27didn't
48:28preestered.
48:29I asked him
48:3020 years
48:31and
48:32he said
48:34it was
48:35like
48:36what
48:37was it
48:38for
48:39results?
48:40And
48:41he said
48:42that was
48:43so
48:44so
48:45so
48:46so
48:47so
48:48so
48:49no
48:50it was
48:51katastrophic
48:52too
48:53that
48:54all
48:56he told
48:57him
48:58didn't
48:59pay
49:00and
49:01it was
49:03so
49:04he said
49:05that
49:06he looking
49:07at
49:08them
49:09are
49:10okay
49:11to
49:12him
49:13no
49:14no
49:15no
49:17But I think that he thought, and so he did the same thing next week,
49:23the week after, for better results.
49:26That's why no one said to him that he had a sharp deal.
49:29I think we need to go in Mila to football.
49:34Here we have a trainer.
49:40This is the winner's goal, which will soon be your biggest problem.
49:46I think it's the expectation that you will win, and you will win,
49:51which will make you do it.
49:53And then you will be taken to doping.
49:55Yes, it's true, absolutely.
49:58I'm right at failure, I'm right at straffes,
50:03I'm right at for myself, for I'm not going to win.
50:07That's why I won all the time.
50:09I'm sure you're not going to do it.
50:11And we've been talking about trauma,
50:14and being taken to doping.
50:16It's an enormous trauma.
50:18What was that for you?
50:20It's still trauma.
50:22Can you try to describe it?
50:24It's a big trauma that I can't think about it.
50:28I don't think about it.
50:29I don't think about it.
50:31I don't think about it.
50:33So fast it just comes,
50:35even now, after so many years,
50:37it will stop.
50:39That's why I know that a smart experience
50:41is extremely smart.
50:43But is it a physical feeling you feel?
50:49Fysisk.
50:50Fysisk.
50:51BĂ„de psykisk and fysisk.
50:53Fysisk, that I've been so long lived with it,
50:57that I've been sick.
50:58Fysisk.
50:59AlltsÄ, I've got a lot of problems with my health,
51:03on the basis that I've got so bad.
51:08Of the scammers?
51:08Of the scammers.
51:10We talked about therapy before,
51:12before you came.
51:13I think that it's clear that
51:15it's clear that there are people
51:16who are with me about
51:17hemsk things,
51:18and that they can actually find
51:20that they can find
51:21forsoning with themselves
51:22and the world in healing.
51:24So that the world can be healed again.
51:27I've tried it.
51:28I've tried it in different phases.
51:30What have you tried?
51:32Oh, I've been a psychotherapist
51:36and a psychologist
51:38in different stages,
51:40in different ages.
51:41In different ages.
51:45But I believe that
51:47it depends on my growth
51:49that it was not practiced
51:51in Ryssland,
51:52that type of treatment.
51:53How?
51:54So I've come already
51:55a little negative.
51:56To the psychologist
51:57and I've already sat there
51:58and thought
51:59okay.
52:00Yeah.
52:01But do you think
52:02that it's really hard to sit here
52:04and talk about it again?
52:05Because then it's up
52:06all the time.
52:07Yeah, but
52:08if I put up the program
52:09then it's up.
52:10Yeah, I know.
52:11But it feels like
52:13that the problem
52:14all the time has been
52:16and now I'm going to correct
52:18if I'm wrong,
52:19but that you've had
52:20it's hard for
52:21to forgive yourself
52:22even if many others
52:23have forgiven you.
52:24Yeah.
52:25And I've never forgiven you.
52:27How hard
52:28have you been with yourself?
52:29How dark has it been?
52:30How dark has it been?
52:31It's so dark
52:32it's so dark
52:33that there's
52:34a little joy
52:36in my life.
52:39It's so dark.
52:43It's so dark.
52:45It's also
52:48trying to make it
52:48egoistically.
52:51It's very positive
52:53against the family
52:54and the family.
52:55And I know
52:56that there are a lot of people
52:58around the world
52:59I wanted to live and live and be happy.
53:03And then egoism should just disappear.
53:06But it didn't go.
53:10I couldn't walk every day.
53:13And then I could just finish the day.
53:17It just didn't go.
53:19And it was so many times.
53:23But Ludmilla, if the therapy has not worked,
53:29you have gone through these feelings.
53:32But at some point,
53:35do you decide to go back to Sweden?
53:37You lived in Spain in 20 years.
53:39I said I had to make a decision.
53:41I had to take off all my thoughts.
53:45I went to different therapies.
53:47One therapist said to me,
53:49or he said to me,
53:51or he said to me,
53:53or he said to me,
53:54or he said to me,
53:55or he said to me what happened.
53:56My husband left me to another.
53:57We lived in 35 years.
53:59We had all of our lives.
54:01We were both my friends.
54:03Now I'm all alone.
54:05I don't know how I live.
54:07And then he said,
54:08he said,
54:09he was a very short man.
54:11He said,
54:12he said,
54:13he said,
54:14he said,
54:15no.
54:16What's wrong on Tinder?
54:18I was wrong on Tinder.
54:22I thought it was very different.
54:26It was a different one.
54:28It was a different one.
54:30You got help from a therapist.
54:32I laughed at all.
54:34I laughed at all.
54:35From other therapists,
54:37I laughed at all the time.
54:39But from him,
54:40I laughed at all.
54:42I laughed at all.
54:43I laughed at all.
54:44He helped me on that way.
54:46And then I helped a woman,
54:49a fantastic woman,
54:51Matilda.
54:52Yes,
54:53because you came to Sweden
54:54to become a trainer.
54:55I started with her in Spain.
54:57I started with her in Spain.
54:58She came first to Spain,
54:59and then you started training her.
55:02And it was Matilda Halvorsson.
55:03Yes, Halvorsson.
55:04And then she said,
55:05Matilda can do Tinder to me.
55:08So you helped her in the way.
55:10So she helped me with Tinder?
55:12So she helped me with Tinder?
55:14Yes, she helped me with Tinder.
55:15Yes, I did not know.
55:17It's also other dating apps,
55:19so that's said.
55:20There out there.
55:21But, Matilda,
55:23she still is still in your life.
55:25She is still in your life.
55:26She is in my life.
55:27She is very important in my life.
55:30I understand that you help Matilda,
55:32but on some other side...
55:33No, Matilda helps me.
55:35Yes, on what kind of way?
55:37I feel very good.
55:39I feel very good when I help her.
55:42As I said,
55:44the whole family helps me.
55:46All of them are engaged in my life.
55:49All of them are engaged in my life.
55:50All of them are engaged in my life.
55:51Yes, Matildas family.
55:52Yes, Matildas family.
55:53So many of them say to her,
55:56that she helps me with training and to improve my life.
56:00But it's the fact that they help me.
56:04That's why the time I met Matilda and her family,
56:07they make me happy.
56:16They call you not a trainer,
56:18they call you a mormor.
56:19Mormor.
56:20Extra mormor.
56:21But Ludmilla, you are back in training now as a trainer.
56:27Just for her.
56:28Just for her.
56:29Just for her.
56:30How are you after 20 years?
56:32How do you think that,
56:34for the first,
56:35that the Swedish education has changed over 20 years?
56:37How do you think that?
56:38I don't think so much changed.
56:41I think it's devastating in the same place.
56:46You know, for Nekin!
56:48Do you think that it's for much Dalton?
56:49It's no longer for much Dalton.
56:51It's no longer for much support.
56:54It's no longer for some money.
56:56It's no longer for money.
57:00It can be worse.
57:02Yeah, I think that when I work active, it's more of a help for idrott.
57:08Idrott is so very important in the society.
57:13Discipline, training, health, etc.
57:17But it's been the most important sport.
57:21And to find a new talent you can focus on.
57:27And that's why I sit here and sit here.
57:29That's why you sit here and sit here, and that's wonderful.
57:31Thank you, Edmira.
57:34And thank you to Pernilla, Kristian, Nusse, Ebba.
57:38We're back in a minute.
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