- 1 week ago
Nic Stone, two time New York Times bestselling author, will read excerpts from her new novel, Dear Justyce, and answer questions.
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00:00Hi. Hi, everyone. I'm Horsha Burke of Random House, and I'm so honored to be here as part
00:24of the Afro-Punk Festival with our Rock and Read section of all of the festivities.
00:31Nick Stone is here with us. Hi, Nick. Hey, girl. Hey. Nick is a multiple New York Times bestselling
00:42author. Her newest book, Dear Justice, is on sale now. Congratulations on all of your
00:49successes. Thank you, Vu. It has been a wild ride, my friend. So, okay. Well, can we talk
01:00a little bit about that wild ride? This is, Dear Justice is not your first book, and clearly
01:08we're in a much different world than when you pubbed Dear Martin. Can you tell us a little
01:14bit about how you've experienced the difference in those two publications as they're kind of
01:19stories that talk to each other? Yeah. I mean, the main difference is like, Dear Martin, I
01:25was all over the place, literally, and Dear Justice, I've been in my house for eight months,
01:30um, which it, it, publishing. So I actually, I had two books come out during the pandemic.
01:37The first was in May, so it's like just when everything was starting to really and truly
01:41shut down. And then Dear Justice just came out at the end of September. And those two experiences
01:47were wildly different because, like, by the end of September, we've kind of gotten adjusted
01:52to being at home and having everything be virtual. And, like, it was very different, serious talking
01:59to me. And I don't know why. Okay. Um, that was weird. So, yeah. So, no, like, with Dear
02:07Martin, I was definitely a little, I had, like, a little bit more trepidation about things.
02:12I was a lot more nervous about the things that I was writing about, especially as this little
02:18baby author who was coming in with this book about racism. Like, I don't know very many
02:23people who decide that they're going, they're going to start a publishing career with a book
02:29for teenagers about racism. Um, so I was terrified when Dear Martin was about to publish. But with
02:38Dear Justice, it's just been, like, oh, can it come out already? And that's partially because
02:44it's definitely the hardest book I've ever written. And I just wanted to be rid of it. Like, I just
02:49wanted it to be, like, at that place where I can't do anything else to it. Um, yeah.
02:55Why was it the hardest book you've ever written? Um, largely because of the subject matter. So,
03:02with Dear Martin, so Dear Martin follows a 17-year-old Black kid, um, who has this traumatic
03:09experience. This is Dear Martin. Uh, it follows this kid who has a traumatic experience with racial
03:13profiling and decides to start this journal of letters to the late Reverend Dr. Martin Luther
03:20Jr. really to see if Dr. King's teachings will hold up now, right? Like, in the 21st century. Um,
03:29Dear Justice, though, is about a very different type of kid. Because where in Dear Martin, you have
03:35this kid who does have a bright future. He's, like, headed into this blindingly bright future.
03:41But is having to question all of these things because he knows that despite earning his way into
03:45this future, there are still people who are side-eyeing him and assuming that he's not qualified to be
03:50where he's going. In Dear Justice, you have a kid who has not had the kind of support that you see
03:56in Dear Martin, who does not have this super bright future ahead of him. And I've met far more Quan. So,
04:04Quan is the main character in Dear Justice. I've met far more of these kids than I've met of the good
04:13kid doing everything right and dealing with wrong. And I think, you know, the most, there's a note at
04:20the end of Dear Justice, and I talk about how the most difficult thing about the book is knowing that
04:26the parts that were the most fictional are the parts where the kid gets the most support. There are so
04:32many young people who are locked up and their families have forsaken them. People just act like
04:38they're not there. And it's rough. I got a text message just yesterday. So, one of the detention
04:47centers I visited while I was researching for Dear Justice is in the Bay Area. And she texted me twice
04:53last week to let me know on two different occasions, two of the boys that I met while I was there
04:59lost their lives to gun violence last week. And, you know, it's things like that where, like,
05:05these kids get out. Like, you get out of the detention center, and you wind up back where
05:09you were. And then, you know. And so, it's knowing that the stories in this book, the things that I
05:15address and refer to in this book are all too real, made it a difficult thing to write.
05:24Yeah. But you did it masterfully.
05:30And yes, there's a lot of heartache. And there's a lot of disappointment. But there's also a lot of
05:36stuff for, there's a lot of hope there. And a lot of stuff that we're nerds are going to love.
05:43And I saw that and very much enjoyed it. Can I ask, what made you want to publish in the first place?
05:52Like, I say to writers that I work with, like, when we write, we write for ourselves. That's how we make
05:57sense of the world. That's how we express ourselves, communicate. But when you decide to publish, that's
06:04actually for other people, right? That's an act of service. You were saying that there is something
06:08within you that you think is going to resonate, and is something that someone else needs.
06:15What took you from just writing for yourself to, okay, no, this is something that I need to share?
06:22Interestingly enough, it was the opposite for me. So like, I was writing for, so deciding to get
06:30into publishing had to do with writing for other people. And writing so that people, young people
06:37would have a different experience than the one that I had. Because in middle and high school, I never
06:43saw myself in books. Like, the books that we were told we had to read, if there were Black people
06:50in them, they were like slaves, or they were stupid, or they were scapegoats, or they were being like
06:58shoved out of their neighborhood. Like, there was always something terrible happening to the Black
07:03people in the books that I was told I had to read as a kid. And that does something to a person who is
07:10in the process of identity development, right? So like, you're trying to figure out who you are and where
07:16you fit in this world. That's what adolescence is. It's that space between being completely dependent
07:23on your parents, and your parents being kind of the main source of your identity to learning who you
07:30are as an individual, and figuring out how you're going to position yourself in the world in relation
07:35to other people. So books are a space that, you know, you have this opportunity to step into another's
07:43shoes and to learn things that you then don't have to experience on your own. So when you're Black,
07:48and like, you don't see you doing anything in these books, like what it kind of, for me, it really,
07:55on the one hand, it made me wonder if I existed. Like, do I actually exist in this world out here?
08:01Because I see, I see these, my classmates, I see them reflected in books and on TV, and in all of this
08:08big deal stuff, but I don't see me. Like, what does that say about me? What does that mean for me?
08:14And I don't want, I wrote my first book shortly after having my first kid. And like, I just, I don't
08:26want my boys to have that experience where they don't see themselves in anything, where the books that
08:33they're reading don't have people like them in them. And I want like, girls who are 15 or 16 or 17
08:40and have questions about themselves to have something that they can pick up and reflect on.
08:44It wasn't until I think, so my second published book was my fourth written book. And that was the
08:53first book, my fourth written book was the first book that I actually like, wrote with myself in mind.
08:58Like, I wrote it like, as like this love letter to my teenage self. And, and yeah, and it's, it's
09:05actually a pleasure and a joy and a privilege to be able to write things for other people. Dear
09:13Justice actually came out of a pair of boys that I mentored, telling me that I was their voice. And so
09:21they, they wanted me to write their story.
09:22I remember the author's note for Dear Justice, where you communicated that. And it was just
09:29beautiful to then see, if you listen to the audio book for Dear Justice, which is how I enjoyed it.
09:35You hear the author's note first. And so that sets up a certain intimate experience with the story
09:41itself, again, knowing your intent. And it's not easy to write yourself and write some of your quirks
09:48into your characters. For folks to know, especially those who follow you on your very vibrant Instagram.
09:56For us, like we know, oh, these are Nick's quirks that she assigned to her characters. And yet that
10:02made the reading experience even richer. It did not make it feel like, oh, I'm seeing too much behind
10:10the scenes. I don't, I'm not, I'm lost. I'm not in the story anymore. So again, I've just been applauding
10:16you even from our time. Thank you. I appreciate it. So welcome. As you talk about, okay, so you
10:24knew that you were driven to enter the publishing space, right? What did you do next? Like, did you
10:32have publishing folks around you? I know that you were based in Atlanta, which is a city of many
10:38opportunities. But of course, when we think about the book publishing world, we think about the silos
10:43in New York, or sometimes San Francisco, some kinds of publishers as far south, I guess, as Nashville,
10:50but not Atlanta. So what did that look like for you? How did you break into the biz, so to speak?
10:58Um, I mean, you know, so I went your typical route where I queried to find an agent, then that agent
11:05sent my book out to editors at the publishing houses, there was an editor who was interested.
11:10My story is a little different just because like the second book that I wrote still isn't published,
11:18but it's the one that, that got the attention of my editor. And she basically was like, okay,
11:23I like your style, but like, I don't like the story. What else are you working on? And I wound up with
11:28like 12 hours to come up with a proposal for a new idea. And that's where Dear Justice came from. I mean,
11:33Dear Martin came from. Um, and then after that is when I started, like, I am hyper extroverted to the
11:41point where like this pandemic is making me feel like I am being sucked into this like social black
11:50hole. And there's like, I'm in therapy like twice a week, just to, just to have somebody to talk to,
11:56um, who, who, who doesn't live in my house. But because of that extroversion, um, I just started
12:05like emailing people, like reaching out to people who I admired, who were already publishing books.
12:10Um, there, Becky Albertalli is an author who does live here in Atlanta. So like I went to one of her
12:18events and then I emailed her afterwards and we became friends. I emailed Jason Reynolds randomly,
12:25and he and I became very good friends very quickly. Um, most of the friends I have in the
12:30publishing industry. And I will say, this is not a thing that I could do without community. Like
12:36people who are trying to break into the publishing industry, like you definitely need to have
12:42other people around you. And for me, it was a very organic, organic process with like debut group.
12:51Cause like 2017, um, I think there were six, like six or maybe six black authors in our 2017 debut
13:01group. And so I just reached out to all of them and it became this very easy, like you have this
13:07commonality, this thing that you can connect on and the relationships formed from there. But I'm so
13:13thankful for them. Like, there's no way I could do any of this without being able to like pick up my phone
13:19and be like, girl, did you see this thing on Twitter? I cannot believe, you know, you just need to have
13:23this space where you can vent about things like tokenism and trauma porn, like those kinds of things,
13:33which are definitely stuff that we have to deal with in this industry for sure.
13:39And then some, I'm trying to be on my behavior because my company has helped us have this platform,
13:45but I feel you. Um, and what's refreshing about hearing you talk about your community and your
13:52network, you know, when we talk about networks in book publishing, um, we think a lot about the very
13:59white, very nepotistic networks that are exclusive to them and weren't necessarily as open to us. And
14:08yet you're like, no, that's not how it works. We've actually made enough strides that there are enough
14:13of us while there certainly needs to be more and we're all working on it. Um, and you work on that
14:19by not just setting the example and creating a pathway, but you also give us comp titles,
14:24right? If we want to acquire a book like Dear Justice, well, we know that this is a successful
14:30book and our houses will allow us to do that. So thank you again. Um, but it's wonderful to think
14:37about the kind of community that black folks are used to having, like the, it takes a village adage
14:44came from, you know, an African proverb. So to think of that being such a fundamental part of where
14:52writing is now, um, is beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for that. There's, there's a lot of resistance involved
14:59too. And in forming these communities, because like, you know, I think about American economics
15:07and capitalism and the way these corporations are set up, you know, like they are not set up
15:13with people in mind. Like, let's be honest. And for a while, I, when I think about systemic racism,
15:19when I think about the programming that we have been conditioned to absorb and walk within, um,
15:31it's designed really to make us compete with each other for that one spot at the table. And so like,
15:37having to actively resist that and support one another, honestly, is I think the only reason
15:41we've been able to make these strides forward. So like, to all my black folks out here, like,
15:46continue to support and uplift one another, because that's how we move forward.
15:50Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm like, letting that resonate. Um, there's something else that you
15:58talked about in saying that you wrote a book. Was it your fourth book, but your second published that
16:05you wrote as a letter to your younger self? Is that right? Yeah.
16:09Um, so you also published a letter to your younger self as an op-ed in Team Vogue.
16:18And there you talked about like, the labeled boxes, like experiencing as an adolescent, okay,
16:23there are label boxes that you're told you have to fit into. And you talk about the Christian box,
16:28the cool kid box, the gifted honors model student box. Um, and then you say that what you would tell
16:33that younger self is set the boxes on fire, right? Yeah. Um, eliminate all of the shoulds and the oughts,
16:42um, so that the is, your essence, can just be. That's very powerful. How did you come to that
16:50understanding, um, for yourself? And, well, I'll start with that part of the question. How did you get there?
16:58I mean, it took falling apart, you know, like coming to the place where like, I'm, you try to
17:05do all of these things and fit all of these standards. And just, there's just a day where
17:08you're like, I don't have any idea where I am, who I am, or what I'm doing because I've been working
17:15so hard to be something else. And I just crumbled to pieces and decided that like,
17:24like, I couldn't survive if I kept trying to fit into these different boxes. Um, one of the best
17:33things to happen to me was the recognition that like, the people who were around me and who knew me
17:41the best, their love was enough, you know? Like, I didn't need, I don't need everybody in the world
17:50to love me. Um, I, I think coming to understand who I am and like, what I stand for, what I'm about,
17:59et cetera, and knowing that there is someone who does love me with full knowledge of my flaws.
18:07Um, that was a thing that kind of turned everything on its head for me. Um, and I think,
18:16I think that for me as a, as an extrovert relationships are so powerful and so important,
18:21and I'm not a person who can thrive without them. So realizing that I was good enough as me
18:29to, you know, I am good enough as me to be loved by my father. For, for instance, my dad is like my
18:36biggest cheerleader on earth. And he's literally been there since I was born. Right. So like, there's
18:42really not a whole lot that he hasn't seen. And knowing that there really isn't much that I could
18:47do, there's probably nothing that I could do to lose my dad's love. That is part of where my
18:54confidence comes from. And I know that like, not everybody has that kind of love in their lives.
19:01And that's part of the reason I wrote Dear Justice, because I think it's important to recognize
19:08the people who do, those of us who do have it, it's important for us to recognize that there are
19:12people who don't have it so that we can offer it. Um, and in that offering, like, in order for me to
19:19offer that, I have to like, not worry about boxes and not worry about like other people's perception
19:25and that kind of thing. Like they just, they weren't serving me. So I just had to like, they gotta go.
19:30That's beautiful that not only did you celebrate the love that you have in your life with gratitude
19:39and an acknowledgement of how special it is, but then you're also so mindful to help curate that
19:45experience for other people as best you can. And that's by utilizing what that love has empowered
19:51you to do, which is write beautifully and meaningfully and use that to channel that love
19:57into other slides. I mean, that's the reason we do this. Um, it's beautiful to see.
20:04Um, how do you keep your writing fresh? How do you keep it relatable to younger readers? Like you're
20:11writing YA as much as you look very young. Um, you were not a teenager. Um, how do you
20:19So how do you write in a way that rings true to that audience? Um, even now I consult with them,
20:30you know, like I get, I get, I get a question. Some, a question I get all the time is like,
20:36I am not X or X, Y, Z demographic. Am I allowed to write about it? And I'm like, this is first of all,
20:42this is the wrong question to ask. Like you shouldn't ask if you're allowed to do something. You need to
20:47ask, first of all, why you want to write. So if you want, if you're a person who wants to write a
20:52demographic that you are not living, which is true for me, I write children's books. I am, like you
20:56said, I am not a cheerleader. I am not a 17 year old boy or an 11 year old boy or a 12 year old girl.
21:02Like I am far past these ages. Um, in order for me to, to write toward that audience, I have to actually
21:10interact with that audience. The same way that anybody who wants to write, if you are a person,
21:17like, say you share one characteristic with a character, but there's something else about them
21:21that's different. For instance, with me, like I am, Justice and I are actually quite a bit alike.
21:26Um, a lot of the experiences that I write about Justice having in Dear Martin are experiences that
21:31I had when I was in high school. And so there are similarities there in that, like, I understand
21:37what it's like to go through certain experiences, but like, I'm not a boy. So I talked to boys,
21:41right? When I'm writing for even younger readers, I talk to even younger readers and I, I want to
21:48know, like, what are they thinking about? What are they talking about? What are the words that
21:51they're using? I learned a new one the other day. Um, Goaty. Goaty apparently is a G-O-A-T-Y.
21:58Which is like amazing, I guess. Like, yo, this joy is good. So I got an email. I was like, yo,
22:03yo, this book is Goaty. And I was like, sweet. I am Goaty friends. Heck yes, I will take it.
22:11But having kids talk to me the way that they talk, man, like, even that is such an honor to me. Like,
22:18you're 13, 14 years old and you talk to me like you talk to your homeboy. Like that, that means that
22:23you see me as a person that you can be your full self with. And I think that that is a very important
22:29thing. Like, actually staying connected to the people that you're writing for, um, in some way,
22:35shape, or form. I do like a crap ton of school visits. I had yesterday, I just had the best day
22:43because I, I did three different sessions at this all-boys school in Charlotte, North Carolina. And
22:49like, now I'm like, I had on like blue lipstick. Like, I'm, I'm very like girly, right? And I'm sitting
22:55here telling these boys that it's okay to cry and it's okay to show fear. And like, I'm like, I write
23:00these books so that you see, you can feel your, your full range of emotions, et cetera, et cetera.
23:04And they all had like 50,000 questions after, right? So I think that there is something about
23:10respecting the age group that you're writing for, respecting them as people who have opinions, who have
23:16thoughts, who are able to process information and think critically. And then interacting with them
23:21literally is the way that I like, try to stay as relevant as I can and not like, sound like an old
23:28head in these books. Yeah. You're achieving it. And thank you for framing it that way that you need
23:36to be meaningfully, authentically connected to the audiences that you are writing for. It is not just
23:42about patronizing them and okay, I'm going to step into your community for this day while I'm collecting
23:49interviews and then go out and write my thing. Like, no, there's more involved. There is more
23:55connection. There's more love involved. Right. I completely agree.
24:01Um, kind of along that track, I'm curious, this is something that over the years we've talked about,
24:10I've talked about with a number of my bosses, other coworkers, um, around black writers, right?
24:19Do you consider yourself and don't, I mean, yes, you can laugh, it's appropriate, but hear me out,
24:25right? Do you market yourself and do you enjoy being marketed as a black writer or do you, you know,
24:35promote and expect others to promote you as a writer who just happens to be black?
24:41Oh, girl, this is, this is a good question. I don't think there is such a thing as just happens
24:48to like that. That's not a thing that will, I will ever rock with. Like I, whatever I am,
24:53it's a black version of that. Um, and I say that because the way like the English language, right?
25:00Like when I think about English, I think about English literacy. I think about the history of the
25:04English language and how the English language has been used to oppress black people. Like, no, no,
25:10I am a black writer. I am a black novelist. I am a black speaker. Like, I want you to understand
25:17that this word black, not only does it carry like weight, there's identity attached to it.
25:25And so it's wildly important for me to be like, no, no, I'm black. Just, I'm black. Just, I don't know.
25:32Um, and, and part of that, part of that has to do with like, I think it's important for there to be
25:38expressions of pride in, in ethnicity and in heritage and in culture, right? Especially when you come from
25:45an oppressed people group, a systemically oppressed people group. Um, I am here because my black ass
25:54ancestors were resilient enough to continue surviving, right? They were brought over here,
26:00plucked from their homeland, brought over here, made to work in fields. They were made to labor without
26:08pay. After that was over, they were scared for their lives constantly. Like there is not a point
26:15in American history where black people in this country have been able to live without fear.
26:20We were afraid of the whip during slavery, afraid of racial terror during like reconstruction and Jim
26:26Crow and the sixties and seventies, like afraid of being strung up. And now we are afraid of police.
26:32So like, I want it to be known that I am happy to be black and proud to be black. And that I appreciate
26:42the resilience involved in being black and, and how much will and energy and like determination it
26:51takes just to get out of the bed every morning as a black person here.
26:57I'm right there with you. And I add the caveat when I talk to a lot of my colleagues, like,
27:03especially in this business, like if you think about, so the company that I worked for founded in
27:08the early 1920s, right? There were still people alive in the early 1920s for whom it was illegal
27:13to even know how to read, let alone to be a centerpiece of an industry of selling and publishing
27:20books to other audiences. So of course, we're going to celebrate black achievement in this particular
27:27space because it is exceptional. And it does signal to others who wouldn't see this industry as meant for
27:35them or see themselves have a place here, who identified like, black first, oh, this is this
27:42is for me too. So thank you for validating that and helping me to carry that forward in the fight
27:48in the office we have now. Also, so then thinking about okay, you want to enter the publishing space,
27:58you know that you are writing with black POV at the centerpiece of what you're doing. But you know
28:09that it isn't a black centered and Afrocentric world that you're trying to enter into. So how did,
28:17did you have to negotiate that? Did you have to think that through as you thought about who your agent
28:22was going to be, who your editor was going to be? Yeah, I mean, so the interesting thing about
28:30that you, there is more like selectivity in the agent stage, like I decided who I was going to
28:35send my work to, to for consideration, for representation consideration. And like you look
28:41through and you figure out like, okay, what agents are, are there, first of all, are there any black agents?
28:48And there are like three, like they're like, literally, I think, three or four African American
28:54book agents that I, that I know of, and that represent people that I know. So most people
29:02who are black are probably not going to wind up with a black agent initially, like maybe a bit like
29:07you can try, but there are definitely like, then you go into going into the acknowledgement section
29:14of books written by black people who you admire and you find out who they are represented by.
29:20Like there's a whole science to figuring out what agents you want to send your work to.
29:25The editor piece though is interesting because generally the agent is the person who is curating
29:31the list of editors that your work will go to. What I will say to black people trying to break into
29:36this, still do your own research, still know what your agent is doing and be, be willing to be like,
29:43I would really like for my manuscript to go to this editor because they edited this book. And I think
29:49if they could edit that book, then they could definitely edit my book. Like we have to definitely
29:54be willing, and this is tricky at first, but you have to be willing to make a little bit of a fuss if you're
30:00not happy. And that is hard for us, especially black women, because we don't want to be the rabble
30:07rouser. We don't want to be the angry black woman. Like we're fighting, we fight so hard to avoid
30:12fulfilling stereotypes that sometimes we just kind of get the run around. But like, it's okay to say
30:19what you want. Like you're going to have to at some point step up and be like, ah, this is not the move.
30:24I need y'all to do this a little bit differently. And, you know, fulfilling a stereotype isn't really
30:33your problem in a sense. Like, it's the problem of the person holding the stereotype. So if you want
30:40a thing, you got to be willing to kind of stick your neck out a little bit to go get it.
30:46I'm taking that in because there's a lot of that that I need to
30:49to learn and practice for myself. So thank you. So we know that this is
30:58a music festival, right? And I definitely miss being at the festival. Last summer,
31:04we had the opportunity to be there and be a part of the crowd. It was wonderful.
31:09So we got to talk about music. And I know that you're a music lover. I'm a music lover.
31:16If you were collaborating with a musician on any project, right? It's you and a musician. What's the
31:27project and who is or who are the musician or musicians?
31:32So there is a music, it is on my bucket list. And I am determined one day to work
31:41with this amazing man on something. But Donald Glover slash Childish Gambino is effing brilliant,
31:48like on every possible level. And I would love to write like a Pixar style animated musical featuring
31:58black boys with him. So somebody tap Childish Gambino so that we can like get this joint popping.
32:06Because like, I have a whole idea. And I'm like, I got to figure out how to get to Donald Glover.
32:10Because he's just the way his mind works. And I've like listened to interviews with him.
32:16Um, obviously, the TV show Atlanta is come on, you know what I mean? Like that. So to have a person
32:24who's able to manifest creativity in so many different ways, like that is a person who I would
32:30love to even just like, I just want to have a conversation. If you don't want to do anything,
32:35if you don't want to make anything with me, cool, just let me pick, give me five minutes
32:39to pick your brain and see what we can come up with. Um, that's yeah, that's a dream.
32:44So do I. This can manifest definitely putting it out there. Putting it out there. Do you listen to music
32:57as you write? Yes. Uh, yeah, it depends on what I'm writing. Like what I listen to depends on what
33:03I'm writing. And most of the time, what I'm writing does not actually fit what I'm listening to. For
33:09instance, um, my first middle grade novel, Clean Getaway, I listened to Future the entire time I
33:15was writing it. And, you know, you're writing a book about an 11 year old and listening to some
33:21of the things that that Future has to say. It's fascinating experience. But when it does come
33:27to music, I'm like an Atlanta girl through and through. Like, I basically drive through the streets
33:33of Atlanta blasting Atlanta trap music, like Future, 2 Chainz, Migos, Lil Baby, Da Baby.
33:39Like all just just cranked all the way up and living my best life with them blasting in my car.
33:46I love it. Um, and I love the regional representation there. Obviously, I'm from New York. So I have,
33:56well, I have a lot of love for hip hop. I owe hip hop kind of my life, my education for many reasons.
34:03And also sense of identity. You know, Tribe Called Quest keeps me company back here.
34:08I think about how they provided an opportunity for us to see, oh, Blackness can look like many
34:15different things. You can celebrate who you are. It doesn't have to necessarily be militant. It doesn't
34:19have to necessarily be completely docile, right? It can be expressive and artistic and jazzy and poetic
34:30at the same time. Um, so celebrate you there. This is, this is how I feel about Outkast. The way you
34:38feel about a Tribe Called Quest is how I feel about Outkast. And like, like Outkast, you got like these two
34:43two wildly different dudes. Like Andre 3000 and Big Boy are completely different people.
34:50But they were able to come together and there's like totally different expressions of Blackness
34:56and humanity and masculinity. And, but they just came together and made the best stuff.
35:03Yep. Isn't it beautiful? It is. Thank God for hip hop. I don't know what I would do without it.
35:11Um, if we were allowed to be at concerts right now, who would you most want to see
35:18on the Afropunk stage? Who are you missing right now?
35:22So, you know what's interesting? The person that I would love to see, I wouldn't actually
35:27want to be in the crowd. I would just like to watch the crowd, but I would love to see Travis Scott.
35:31Like there's something about the way that Travis Scott is able to hold a stadium.
35:37Um, like I remember watching his documentary and just being blown away by this vibe he's able to
35:47create within the crowd at his concerts. And it's something I would love to just see was like,
35:52I don't, I'm not trying to be in the mosh pit, but like, I want to see it. I want to see it from like,
35:57like a little bit distance away. Cause I, I, I value my life. I'm too old.
36:05I'm far too old, but I would love to like witness it and feel. Cause like, you know,
36:09it's like when you get in spaces and I am sad that like Afropunk's not happening live,
36:14cause I would have loved to have been there this year. But like, when you get in spaces
36:18where music is the uniting thing, like the thing that is like bringing everybody together, there is,
36:25there's something there that is just utterly indescribable that you can't find it anywhere else.
36:30Sure. Nothing like it. I can't wait for it to be restored. Just gotta hang on until we can get there.
36:40For dear life, Portia. Dear life. Um, question. So talking about adages and, and quotes that keep us
36:50going. Uh, there's one, if you want to be a good writer, you have to be a good reader, right?
36:57So what would you recommend someone read? Like they're trying to get started now. They have a
37:03couple of books. Maybe they've read Dear Martin, Dear Justice, right? And they're like, yeah,
37:07I want to do this. But two books is not enough to develop your, your literary career. So what
37:14kinds of things would you recommend folks read right now? Um, especially those who are interested
37:20in developing themselves as writers. So honestly, my answer to this question is not going to be
37:28helpful at all because it's everything. Um, like no matter what genre. So if a person wants to write
37:35for a living, you need to consume as much story as possible. And that is not just in books, like
37:43consuming story on TV, consuming story in film, like even watching a film and trying to figure out
37:50where the act breaks are, I think is one of the coolest things that you can do as a storyteller. Like
37:54you watch the film and you figure out the points in which the story takes a turn. And most films are
38:00written as in the three act structure, right? So reading books about story structure, reading
38:06like nonfiction books about how to write a book. Like those are very vital things to read. There's
38:11a book called Save the Cat. That's all about screenwriting, but it's a really great book on
38:16storytelling in general. A lot of authors write books on storytelling. Stephen King's on writing is one
38:22of my favorite books about writing. It's so good. It's so good. There's a textbook even. I'd like
38:29buy a textbook. There's one textbook called writing fiction, or is it called fiction writing? It might
38:34be called fiction writing, but like it was a textbook I had at Spelman that I, that I bought when I was
38:39taking a fiction class at Spelman that I'd been dropped out of. But the textbook itself, I like dropped
38:43out of the fiction class and, and created an independent study so I could just write a book. So I was like
38:48learning by doing. But I did use that book. So despite not using the classroom instruction, having
38:55this book was super helpful to me. And then read comic books. Comic books are just a, it's a fascinating
39:01storytelling form. Comic books, graphic novels. I recently read, like I'm reading my son's dogman books
39:08because kids are freaking obsessed with him and I need to understand why. Like what is it about this
39:13dogman? Like what is going on? Um, and then also I think it's important to read things that you don't
39:19like, like, and figure out why you don't like them, right? You don't have to read the whole thing,
39:24obviously, but like there was one, I'm not going to shade the title, but there was like this book
39:30about this person who falls in love with this mystical creature. And I just remember reading,
39:38I got through the first three and then something weird happens at the beginning of the fourth one.
39:42And I was like, okay, I cannot finish this series. However, these are the reasons that I hated it.
39:47Like that's actually a really good, that's good. It's educational to do that. Um, so just read,
39:52read widely is my answer to this question. Read all of it, read everything.
39:57That's a very solid answer. Um, as someone who I need my stories to be read. And I know that this is
40:05very, very, very, very, um, narrow minded of me, but whatever, it's how I process. I'm not smart. I say
40:13I'm not smart enough for graphic novels and comic books because I can't tell the order in which people
40:19are speaking. Like I don't, my eyes don't know where to go. I need you to take me from left to right
40:25and top to bottom, please. Um, but maybe you are inspiring me to try a little harder again.
40:32Do Octavia Butler's Kindred, like read that graphic novel. And I think because it also takes the right
40:40book, right? So this is another thing, like when it comes to people who want to write, you're not
40:46really going to be able to, until you find that, that book that makes you want to read, right? And
40:51there's something about wanting to read that stimulates my desire to write.
40:54Yep. And actually, you know what, there are so many now they are doing graphic novel. It's a,
41:01it's a growing trend in book publishing where we're publishing graphic novel versions of previously
41:08published books, right? Um, so to do that for Kindred, a book that you have already experienced,
41:14right? So I know what's going to happen. I can follow it along. You're brilliant. Thank you.
41:19Boom. Boom. Um, if you weren't, so to that point about writing widely, reading widely, excuse me. Um,
41:31if you weren't writing YA, um, with children in mind, what would you be writing?
41:38Um, so I'm, I'm actually, I'm writing adult too. Um, and then I want to write like for the screen.
41:44So like, if I wasn't writing when I stopped writing YA, cause I just, I don't, at some point,
41:51I'm going to be too old for this shit to be completely honest. Like you're never actually
41:55too old, but like trying to keep up with the changing, the constantly changing trends in, in,
42:02in generation Z, like what comes next? Double A, like generation double A. Is that where we're at next?
42:08I have no idea. So we have Gen Z right now. And, um, I have two mentees in Gen Z. They're,
42:14they're 13 year olds. And like, sometimes I'll be talking to them and I'm like, bro,
42:19I don't know how much longer I can do this. Cause y'all are this, this sounds some yellow,
42:23some other stuff. I don't know about, I have no idea what you're talking about is the,
42:27I don't know what you're talking about. And if I don't know what you're talking about,
42:30I'm not going to be able to convey it in a book, right? Like that's going to actually appeal to you.
42:35So I definitely want to write, uh, some adult stuff. I'm actually, as soon as we hang up,
42:41I have pitches, uh, due for a trio of adult projects that I should really get done. Cause
42:49they were due like on Wednesday. So I'll definitely write some adult books. Um, and yeah, like I said,
42:55I'd like to get into like other mediums of storytelling. Um, a good podcast is something
43:03I would do. I'd like write scripted podcasts or film scripts, TV scripts, et cetera.
43:09Music to our ears. Um, for what you're working on next in the adult space, are you veering toward
43:18romance? Are you veering toward mystery? Is there a genre involved?
43:23So these three projects are very specific. Um, I really wish I could say more about them. Um,
43:33but what I, what I can say is I, I like, I like, it's the same thing. It'll be the same concepts
43:44at the same kind of motivation for the stuff that I write for young people, which is like
43:51critical thought provoking entertainment, like entertainment that provokes critical thought.
43:58Um, so it'll be the same when I, when I kind of step into the adult space. Um,
44:03but I also just want to have a good time and like write what I want to write and not
44:07have it be banned. Cause you know,
44:12people like to do that when you're writing for children.
44:15It's like, I can write as many cuss words in this book as I want. Nobody's going to ban it
44:18because it's for grownups, right? Like it's, it's actually kind of dumb, but anyway, we won't get
44:23into that. It's fine. You can do what you want. Yeah. Um, so there's something that you wrote, um, around
44:35the time of the murder of Michael Brown and you were encouraging folks to put their rage to good use,
44:44stand up, speak out, take to the streets. Um, you said things can change when we get angry enough.
44:51Um, in June of this year, folks were definitely taken to the streets and in the book publishing
44:59world for sure. We were trying to match that energy with our own acts of solidarity, right? Standing
45:05with our colleagues, standing with movements, standing with our authors, with the forefront
45:09of a lot of these movements. Um, how did you experience that moment, um,
45:16in June and what role do you feel like writers are playing in the movement right now?
45:23So what I will say about June is that it really highlighted to me that activism doesn't look
45:30just one way, right? So most of my June, like late May through June, and even into July,
45:39was spent like hosting live conversations on Instagram with, sometimes with other writers,
45:45but talking about race with other people, talking about, um, anti-racism in education with classroom
45:52teachers, but like hosting conversations where people, where there was like an exchange of
45:57information and an exchange of ideas. And I think that that is a very important,
46:03a very important part of activism. It's coming up with something better, right? So it's great when
46:09we take to the streets. I love that. And I, I support it wholeheartedly. There also have to be people
46:16who are coming up with the ideas for what we do after we defund the police, you know, like,
46:21what do we do after we have abolished, after we've abolished the prisons? Like we, we're working
46:26towards these things, but there has to be something better to replace what exists. Um, you can
46:32completely tear a thing down, but something has to be built in its place, right? So like, I think about
46:38activism and I think about innovation and how those are two things that have to go hand in hand
46:43in order for either of them to really be successful. Um, so I do think that writers,
46:51like intellectual activism is a huge thing that we can all engage in just by making ourselves
46:58available and, and kind of putting ourselves and our opinions out there for people to grapple with and
47:03to, to interact with. Um, and it's, it's my favorite thing about being a storyteller is that I get to
47:12use all of my emotion and all of my frustration, all of the things that bother me. And I get to infuse
47:23all of that stuff into this thing that people already like, like people love stories. We're living
47:28a story, like each and every single one of us, we're each living an individual story.
47:32We're living a family story. We're living a collective story. We're living like a global
47:35story. And so to be constantly surrounded by a thing and get to infuse what I'm thinking and
47:43feeling and the ways that I want the world to be different into that thing, honestly,
47:47is like a huge gift to me. Um, so my encouragement to writers is to continue to use your gifting
47:54to not only reveal the world as it is, but also as it could be.
47:59Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I'm inspired. I hope that everyone
48:08who has had the opportunity to hear us in conversation is equally inspired. Nick Stone,
48:14you are incredible and thank you for your art and for your commitment, your love, your shine.
48:21Um, I hope that Dear Justice is as much of a success as it deserves to be and that we get to hear
48:29what you're working on next and read it very soon.
48:37Oh, it's terrifying.
48:39It's going to be great. And think like, not only do you have your community of writers around you, but
48:45now you also have an entire community of editors of other lovers of the word to help uplift you and
48:51carry you where you want to go. Um, thank you, Afropunk, for having us here for our Rock and Read
48:59session for the fall. We look forward to seeing you, um, later in the weekend with some other incredible
49:08authors. Um, but Nick Stone, you are a gem among them. And thank you again. Thank you, gorgeous.
49:16I hope you have a wonderful weekend. All of you have a wonderful weekend. Have a wonderful weekend, everyone.
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