- 4 weeks ago
A conversation with Dulcé Sloan exploring challenges Black women face in comedy and the Black sitcoms that made us love television.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00:00Hello Afropunk and welcome to Hot Takes. My name is Ashley Marie Preston and for this segment I'm
00:00:20joined by Dulce Sloan. Dulce is one of the sharpest, fastest rising voices in comedy.
00:00:25Sleek Magazine recently crowned her the new queen of comedy and Rolling Stone has hailed her as one of
00:00:31the 10 comedians you need to know declaring she speaks and they simply fall in line behind her.
00:00:38Dulce has been a correspondent on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah since 2017 and this November she
00:00:44will star alongside Mylon Ackerman, Alec Baldwin, and Bella Thorne in the action comedy feature
00:00:49chick fight. Additionally, Dulce hosts the most popular podcast, That Black Ass Show, where she
00:00:56talks to special guests to celebrate some of America's iconic Black shows that have and continue
00:01:02to shape the world. In 2021 she will be seen in the animated Fox series The Great North which has
00:01:08already been picked up for a second season. Please give a warm Afropunk weekend welcome to Dulce Sloan.
00:01:15Hello friends! What's good? How are you holding up during all of this magic that's happening in the world?
00:01:26COVID, all of the witch crap rather. All I can say is I didn't die. Okay. So my mother's mortgage is still paid.
00:01:38So other than that, I've been crafting a lot. Yeah, I've been at my house a lot crafting.
00:01:50The thing is, the good thing is in New York we can do outdoor stand-up shows. So that's what I've
00:01:58kind of been doing and I've been cooking a lot. I've been crafting. I'm working on putting some pearls
00:02:05all over these here. Sunglasses. Um... Hidden talents are uncovered during this time.
00:02:11Oh yeah, I got my cricket over here. I've been making, I thought it was like custom, like
00:02:17Dollar Tree has like these little metal trays. And I was like, ooh, I could decorate them. They'd be
00:02:21really cute. I give them to my friends. And then one of my guy friends was like, are you making rolling
00:02:25trays? I was like, uh, yes. Because I thought I was just making pretty trays, but apparently I'm making
00:02:32weed trays. I did not know. I didn't know, but apparently that's what I've been, that's what
00:02:38I've been doing. Um, and so that, and you know, still working, you know, filming stuff for Daily
00:02:44Show in here. Um, I got two green screens of ring light cameras, got a setup by iPhone, all of that,
00:02:52tripods. Uh, I have to prop up stuff on boxes in my house. So I got a box of grits and trying to get
00:02:59into the union after all of this is over. So it's all, it's all set up. Um, I've got this set
00:03:06up on a candle box, uh, from a candle my manager gave me. And I don't even, I've lit the candle
00:03:12like three times. It smells nice, but I'm always afraid of like, you know, it's a tiny fire in your
00:03:16house. So candles have always kind of freaked me out. Um, cause it's a tiny unsupervised fire.
00:03:22Right. Uh, and fire is bold and, you know, limba. So, uh, but yeah, I've just been working and,
00:03:31um, you know, got on the dating apps and I think I'm off them again, but I've been going on.
00:03:37How does that work? How does that work? I keep hearing people say that they're
00:03:41into dating apps, uh, more so during COVID, but what is dating post pandemic look like for you?
00:03:47Well, this is the thing. When we were on lockdown, I wasn't on that period. Cause I was like,
00:03:53you're not going to be home. I know you're not busy and not responding to my message. I'll bring
00:03:56your house down. So I wasn't during lockdown. And plus I would have been mad because it was like,
00:04:03so I can't even see you cause the whole, no dog. I don't need to know. No, no, no, no. It's gonna make
00:04:08me annoyed and frustrated. So now that, you know, New York, you can do, you know, there was outdoor
00:04:14dining, um, there's outdoor dining. The restaurants are at limited capacity. You know, I went some on
00:04:20some very rom-com New York date. Um, we ate outside at some restaurant and then we rode city bikes in
00:04:28Central Park. Um, and then I never saw them again. So I was like, okay, this makes sense. Um, cause I
00:04:36did pay for some of my food and I paid for this bike. So I don't want to see. Um, but yeah, just like
00:04:43socialize socially distance dates. Um, you know, just making sure the dudes have their STD and COVID
00:04:48tests is basically what you got to do now. Like I need two tests or two tests, but they are very,
00:04:55they're more responsive than they used to be. I'll tell you that much. They're very much
00:04:58getting back to you faster, messaging quicker. Um, being way more respectful, which has been
00:05:04interesting. Um, cause I think everybody was just like by themselves long enough to be like,
00:05:10amen. I didn't see that. Yeah. But you know, but some of them still want you to like,
00:05:15like, Hey, you want to come over? No, you're not murdering me, sir.
00:05:22You told me I didn't know.
00:05:26No, no, no.
00:05:27I think the thing that many of us have recognized is during the pandemic, it's a moment of reflection
00:05:32and a moment for us to really step back and examine who we are. Like I know for me personally,
00:05:38um, I had maybe started out on a specific trajectory in my early twenties, but during
00:05:45the pandemic, I was like, wait a minute, you actually been doing this thing for the last
00:05:51like three years and you've actually been sick of it, but you haven't checked in with yourself
00:05:56really to know that it was time to move on to something else. So did you ever have,
00:06:00did you have a moment of elevation during the pandemic where you're like, you know what,
00:06:04I'm, I love what I'm doing obviously, but I think I want to add this to the mix.
00:06:09I had personal stuff. Like work's always been, work's always been good. It's my personal life
00:06:15that's always been trash. So when it comes to dating and stuff like that. So there were moments
00:06:21that I, you know, I was talking to one of my friends, I was talking to my sister. Um, and then just
00:06:27how I saw myself physically and emotionally, how I felt about myself, um, certain friendships that I
00:06:34had and seeing, um, you know, value and stuff, you know, I had a couple of friends, a couple of male
00:06:43friends leave abusive relationships. Um, cause people assume it's always a woman leaving an abusive
00:06:49relationship. It's like, no, women can be abusive too. So I had two male friends leave abusive
00:06:53relationships. I offered to fight these girls, but alas, they told me no. Um, because when you
00:06:58love your friend, you'll fight their former partner. Um, and so like seeing that and kind of just going,
00:07:09okay, that's for them to get to the point because everyone was spending way more time together.
00:07:18And this kind of pushed the limits of relationships. And I think for the, both of them, they were able
00:07:24to see like, Hey, this isn't, I'm not in a good relationship. I have to get out of this.
00:07:29And I think with a lot of people or like one of my friends, we got like acquaintances became tighter
00:07:35friends. Um, was what, so it was a lot of friendships. It was a lot of friendship shifting.
00:07:43It was people, there were people that were asking me how I was doing that I wouldn't expect to ask
00:07:48me how I was doing. And the people that I didn't expect to ask me how I was doing, I wasn't hearing
00:07:52from. And it was kind of like me going, okay, I can't be upset about that because maybe there's
00:07:58other people going, why haven't I heard from Dulce? Right. But I was checking up on anybody that was
00:08:05in my circle before we went into the lockdown. So, but sometimes people have expectations of you
00:08:10that you don't even know about. So for me, it was a lot of being more forgiving of
00:08:17people I didn't hear from because this affects everybody in different ways. Like one of my
00:08:22friends said to me, she said, I'm very worried about you. I'm like, man, what do I do? She's like,
00:08:28you are, she's like, you're a people person. You're someone that goes out on a regular basis. You're
00:08:31someone who is around people a lot. And she said, not to say that you need people, but you're a very
00:08:38social person. And you've been trapping your house for a couple of months. I'm worried about
00:08:43you. And I was like, ah, you should, you're absolutely right. Um, but I think the, I think
00:08:49the thing that was the hardest was just like, I couldn't find anything to watch basically, but I
00:08:54started, uh, you know, but I think it was good. This is, this sounds so messed up and I hate to say it.
00:09:05And I know that like, during all of this, like 200, over 200,000 people died and 30 million
00:09:10people lost their jobs. And you don't want to be ungrateful for the life that you have,
00:09:14the opportunities you have. But at the same time, it's like, I think the whole world just needed to
00:09:20sit the fuck down. Like one of my friends was telling me, like his son is like two. He said last summer,
00:09:29he missed all of his sons. He missed his first steps. He missed his first words. He missed
00:09:34everything. And then now he's been home to spend time with his baby, like to spend time with his
00:09:41son. And some of my friends that have kids were like, I've never spent this much time with my kids.
00:09:46Never spent this much time with my, you know, spouse or partner. And, you know, I just,
00:09:53never spent time with ourselves. Right. I think that like, I even see people that have actually
00:10:00started businesses or people that have actually started to follow their passion and music and
00:10:07writing and, you know, doing creative projects. So like, I think that's also like a moment to where
00:10:14we step back and again, just kind of ask ourselves, like, what am I really doing? And I love that you
00:10:19name that. Like that moment, the way that I've been looking at it and the way that I've been
00:10:23talking about it is in a weird way. It's almost as if the level, the playing field has kind of been
00:10:31somewhat leveled also, because it seems like you had a whole bunch of mediocre people out here taking
00:10:39up all the space in the world and was just getting things handed to them and they didn't have to work
00:10:44for and they didn't have to really show any kind of effort. And now the folks who have been out
00:10:50there having to work 10, 15, 20 times as hard just to get traction of what they have. This is our moment.
00:10:59Well, yeah, because one of my friends was talking about another comic, he was talking about like
00:11:04comedy in New York. And basically there was just all of these filler people that were, you know,
00:11:13getting spots and doing, you know, and being on shows or whatever. And then a lot of people left
00:11:20the city. And it's kind of, and so now the people that I see at shows just in general are the comics
00:11:29who were working before this happened. So the comics who were on the road on the weekends, the comics
00:11:37who had specials and, you know, half hours, like those comics were the ones that were there when
00:11:43everything started to come back. And all of these filler people who would be on shows talking the
00:11:48most unnecessarily. We don't see those people. And it's a blessing because I really didn't know
00:11:55those people. You don't know those, that's the thing, you don't know those people.
00:11:58Very much like, do you even go to this school?
00:12:01I have been saying that, that was the thing I was saying all summer. Like, who is this? You don't go,
00:12:07you go to this school. And honestly, it's such a fun thing to say when you see somebody like,
00:12:12I'm sorry, I'm not, I don't know you. Do you go to this school?
00:12:15Girl.
00:12:18Well, I feel like it's a greater opportunity. I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:12:21Yeah, but a lot of those filler people who were just around and just taking up space and taking up,
00:12:28you know, stage time. And we don't see those people anymore. And it is truly a blessing.
00:12:33Right. Because they were taking up space from comics that needed the time. Comics that would
00:12:40have, comics that were actually saying something, regardless of their background. These are comics
00:12:45who are actually working. These are comics who are actually saying something. And I'm not saying
00:12:49that we don't want new comics to come in. These are comics who have been around as long as I've
00:12:54been around and longer.
00:12:57What's gatekeeping, right? Like we talk about the gatekeeping that happens in these spaces.
00:13:01No, these goofy fucks can't gatekeep. They don't work on a regular, like they only work the clubs
00:13:06that they work. They're not going out on the weekends. They're not touring. They're not
00:13:09on specials. They're not doing, their career has been the same since they started. They were
00:13:14just regulars at a club and they were always, they're not, they can't gatekeep. They, they're
00:13:20still at the gate. You see what I'm saying? So, and then when it comes to gatekeeping,
00:13:25it's, people don't realize that a lot of comedy clubs, most bookers are women.
00:13:37That's interesting because my next question that I was actually going to ask you was,
00:13:42you know, I know like a couple of years ago, I had Wanda Sykes on my podcast and we were talking about
00:13:46what it's like to be a woman, especially a black woman in comedy. So I was going to ask you, like,
00:13:53how has that experience been you pursuing your career and developing your craft in an industry
00:13:59that's predominantly male? You're going to hate my answer. Especially for me being on AfroFunk,
00:14:05y'all are going to hate my answer. I have had a lot of conversations with white female comics
00:14:11with them talking about, well, you know, as a woman, you know, it's hard to get stage time and
00:14:16da, da, da, da. And I asked a girl one day and I said, has anyone told you, you couldn't go up
00:14:20because you were a woman? I said, what do you mean? I said, has anyone said that you can't get
00:14:25on stage because you are a woman? And she was like, no. I said, it's happened to me repeatedly.
00:14:32And she's like, oh, really? What show were you? I said, I was at a black club. The only time I ever
00:14:37openly heard, I could not get on the show because they already had two females, was in black rooms.
00:14:45If white rooms weren't putting up women, I didn't know because I would see girls on the show. But
00:14:53I've been in open mics in white rooms where not only was I the only girl on the show, I was the only
00:15:00person of color on the show. There's 13 comics on the show. But when you do white rooms, it's full of
00:15:07white people. And so the thing about comedy is that comedy, because of the style of urban standup and
00:15:14the style of mainstream standup, they're completely different styles. So you don't always see
00:15:21crossover because when you're talking about like urban standup, standup that you'll see in black
00:15:25comedy clubs, you have to have a laugh every 30 seconds. They are not playing with you, right?
00:15:32Mainstream rooms, you can have somebody do a one or two minute setup before a joke.
00:15:38Somebody's already sat there for one to two minutes
00:15:40and listened to your premise and your setup, all of that and took it. Black rooms, for the most part,
00:15:49when you're, if you're doing something like that, you have to have little jokes in that setup before
00:15:58you get to the big punchline. And that's not to say that black rooms, it's not to say that they're not
00:16:04paying attention or mainstream rooms are more attentive. It's that black rooms, it's just a
00:16:10faster paced show. So since it's a faster paced show and it's a faster paced style, you have to
00:16:17have those laughs quicker. And that's the main difference. So a lot of times you don't see the
00:16:22crossover. Or when you do see a black comic start doing mainstream rooms, that's why they get,
00:16:30that's why they pop, a lot of times they pop really quickly because that's not a style that
00:16:35mainstream audiences are accustomed to seeing. So for them, it's way more entertaining. While for
00:16:40white, for, for black crowds, this is business as usual. Yeah. Specifically, like when you think
00:16:46about the early origins and like the Chitlin circuit and like some of those, um, older timing,
00:16:52like standup comedy shows, um, it was, it was very much that. And, and also I want to point out that
00:16:58I don't think it's a far-fetched idea that you would actually experience that in a black space
00:17:03because like, we're constantly talking about lateral oppression and how sometimes when we're
00:17:09in spaces where we should all kind of know better, like we should be more open-minded about that.
00:17:16We're kind of like blinded to it sometimes. So it's just like, well.
00:17:20Well, race doesn't stop sexism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't stop misogyny. I mean,
00:17:26the term massage noir was invented for a reason. So, you know, and it's sometimes like, that's why
00:17:33I have a bit about, you know, like being a black woman, dating a black man. Sometimes you're in a
00:17:40struggle competition over to see who has it worse. And so when I did New Negroes, uh, Baron Vaughn show
00:17:47on Comedy Central, um, that was the whole point of the joke were basically like, it was kind of my
00:17:54way of like reconciling, like hearing about black women getting killed by the police. Cause for a long
00:18:01time growing up, they told us they could do it. So we still had to be afraid, but we didn't have a lot
00:18:08of examples of them actually doing it. When come to find out they've been doing it forever,
00:18:13they just didn't tell us. And I'm just, I feel like Sandra Bland's story was one of the ones that
00:18:20kind of kicked off that. It fucked me up so quick. Cause I was just like, and I'm like,
00:18:24it's been happening. I was like, yo, you know how many cops I've yelled at? Cause I didn't think
00:18:28they'd actually kill me. Also, this is Atlanta police. So I don't think a black cop's going to
00:18:34shoot me. Even though, you know, like, and also it's Atlanta police. Don't be afraid of Atlanta
00:18:39police. I'm black in Atlanta. Fucking afraid of Atlanta police. Come on dog. Um, but I'm afraid
00:18:46of all police, but not as afraid of Atlanta police. Cause they blocked traffic to holler at me before.
00:18:51So come on, what are we doing? I've seen Atlanta cop blocking traffic to holler at me. And then
00:18:56this other girl yelled at him, Hey nigga, move your car. And he was like, bitch, don't yell at me.
00:19:01I'm the police. And she said, don't nobody care nothing about that. Move your car. And he looked at
00:19:05me. I was like, Hey dog, you might have to move your car. And he was like, man. And then he moved
00:19:09his car. So if anything, I just saw the power of black women over the power of Atlanta police.
00:19:15So for me, it was like, I have to reconcile with this in my head. And I remember all the times
00:19:22dating black men. And then, you know, just, you just want to tell them something that happened
00:19:26and they're just like, man. So anything you got going on when a black man in America and it's like,
00:19:31Hey dog, that's not, I just need you to be supportive. That's all I need you to do. And
00:19:37it was all in a lot of times it would break down to the, I have it worse than you. I don't want
00:19:41to hear about your little story. I have it worse than you. And then Sandra Bland happened. I was
00:19:46like, yo baby, black women are getting killed by the police. Do you need to sit your ass down?
00:19:50We're going to have this conversation. Right. And so, but that was my way of reconciling with
00:19:54it because it's still, it's crazy. Well, I feel like a lot of it too is around this idea that
00:20:06some of us, like we're saying we want to dismantle systems of oppression or that we want to eradicate
00:20:16anti-blackness, but I think, or like white supremacy, but I think some of us actually want to access it.
00:20:24So we don't want to abolish it. We want to access it. So there's folks like we talked about
00:20:29patriarchal power and, and, and the ways in which, you know, and we see this conversation
00:20:35happening a lot, even like around Ice Cube versus black women and the conversations like
00:20:40happening around, like, um, we met at Ice Cube. Um, well, I was watching this show. It was, um,
00:20:47it was, um, Vivica Fox and Lisa Ray and a couple of other women. They were having a conversation
00:20:55on Fox with Ice Cube about the, I can't think of the plan. There was like a political plan
00:21:01package that he proposed.
00:21:03Oh, yeah. I mean, if, I don't know what happened during Players Club. I don't know why Lisa Ray
00:21:09would be mad at Ice Cube.
00:21:10Oh, no, no, no. It's, it's, I, I think the conversation is that black women are being
00:21:15left out of the political agenda for black folks. So, and, and whatever package.
00:21:22That's impossible. That is, that's impossible. You can't leave. We saved Alabama. It's on paper.
00:21:31It's impossible to leave us out. It's impossible for us to be left out there. You had to carve
00:21:38us out. Because when you look at the most reliable voting bloc, it's us. And it's a known fact. That's
00:21:48why the Democratic Party tries to make sure that they don't piss us off. It's a known fact that we
00:21:53vote at a higher rate. Black women vote at a higher rate than black men. I didn't say that. That's on
00:21:59paper. That's research. That's polling. That's not me. I didn't make that up. So, bless you. So, why
00:22:06you can't have a plan for black America and not include black women. You had to make a point to do
00:22:13that. And so, when you write black people, we're already included in it. I'm not going to, you, it's,
00:22:19it's not, it's impossible. It's, it's un-possible. You can't take us out of it. You can't. Because who's
00:22:26going to be the one utilizing it? Who's going to be the one, if we're the ones that vote the most,
00:22:31how would you take us out of it? Because if we're not involved, your plan won't work.
00:22:37Period. Everybody knows that. The Democratic Party knows that. So, whatever plan you're trying to
00:22:43propose, if all these white folks sat in the building and realized that they need us to win,
00:22:49how are you going to come up with a plan that don't include us?
00:22:53I think that that's the conversation. That's the conversation that a lot of black women are,
00:22:57you know, posing, or the point that they're posing is that when it comes to black women and
00:23:04reproductive rights and, like, mortality rates of infants and all these different things that are,
00:23:09you know, racism in health care and environment and all of those different things, like, I think
00:23:16that, and I think I kind of see some of it, even, like, being a black trans woman, like,
00:23:20you would think that, like, when we have conversations about blackness, that, like, all of us
00:23:26will be included. But the truth is that, you know, kind of what you were experiencing in the comedy
00:23:32space around, like, not that it was, like, necessarily a constant, but that thing of,
00:23:37well, we already have, like, one, you know, so that's all we need is, like, one or two, and we're good.
00:23:43I think it's...
00:23:47Instead of thinking about the underlying issues, because, like, I sometimes felt like
00:23:51people, for those of us who are disproportionately impacted by anti-blackness and sexism and
00:23:58transphobia and all these different things that, basically, to describe it, for the folks who are
00:24:04watching, there is a word to describe it. It's intersectionality. So, intersectionality was actually
00:24:10coined by Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw, this brilliant black woman who's a professor at UCLA to this day,
00:24:16and intersectionality describes multiple threats of discrimination when an individual's identity
00:24:23overlaps with multiple marginalized groups. So, it's not enough to say, like, you know, like,
00:24:28I'm a black man in America, so it's... So, if you know how hard it is being a black man,
00:24:33imagine what it's like to be a black woman. Imagine what it's like to be a black trans woman.
00:24:39Imagine what it's like...
00:24:40No, because he's still a man. That's the thing. He's still a man. And so, when you feel like
00:24:50you're the most in danger, when you feel like you're the one that's the most... whose life is
00:24:58in peril the most, then everyone else has to understand. Everyone else has to help you.
00:25:03Even though, a lot of the issues that black men have have to do... Black men don't have an infant
00:25:13mortality rate. If they're as babies, they may. But you're not dealing with the... First of all,
00:25:22the first thing we have to talk about is that America has the highest birth mortality rate,
00:25:29meaning a woman giving birth than any first world country on the planet. That's not just black
00:25:35women dying. That's white women, Latinx women, any woman. It is more risky to have your baby here
00:25:45than in El Salvador. That's going to be a third world country. So, you're telling me as an American
00:25:54woman, it is more dangerous for me to give birth here than some third world countries. That is
00:26:01insane. What would you attribute that to? Like, is there anything that jumps out at you that would
00:26:05be the... Sexism in medicine. That's all that is. It's sexism in medicine. It's think about the number
00:26:14of times as just as women, you've gone to the doctor and someone tried to tell you that's not what's
00:26:20wrong with you. Bitch, this is my body. I'm the only one that knows what's going on wrong. You
00:26:25don't go to this school, okay? I'm the only one that knows what's happening right now. So, the number
00:26:30of times as a woman, you go to the doctor and someone's telling you that's not what's wrong.
00:26:34The number of times as a woman of color that we are, on average, even people of color, even children,
00:26:43they are less likely to give us pain meds because they feel like we have a higher pain tolerance.
00:26:48You're telling me there's two 10-year-old children who are going through chemo.
00:26:55You're not going to give a black child as much or a brown child as much pain meds as you'd give a
00:27:01white child because you feel like they're stronger. Well, then what are you saying? That the white
00:27:06child is weaker? What are we doing right now? Are we saying that the white child is zero and then the
00:27:11other children are more strong? Or are you saying that this is a weak-ass kid? What are we doing?
00:27:15So, I'm already dealing in a space where, and not only do we have a high mortality rate,
00:27:22but now you're trying to tell us that we don't have any agency over our body, trying to reverse
00:27:27Roe v. Wade. And then the number of times that the black community is trotted out in politics and be
00:27:38like, look what we did for them. And it's like, what did you do for us? Black people have been
00:27:4413% of the population. Black people have been 13%. Exactly. I am 37 years old. That means I went
00:27:53through the 1990 census. I went through the 2000 census, 2010, 2000. I've been through four different
00:27:59census as a living black person in America. And black people have been 13% of the population
00:28:07since I was a child. Does that make sense to anybody? Anybody? How have we been exactly 13%
00:28:17for 30 something years? But everybody's doing something for us. I like how you talked about
00:28:23that because that was a part of the debate the other night, the conversation that happened
00:28:27with the presidential debate where, you know, our current president was like, oh, I've done
00:28:33more for black folks than anybody than Abraham Lincoln and anybody in American history. And
00:28:37I'm like, child, Vaseline and shea butter have done more for black folks than this current
00:28:44administration. So I think that that's a good point that you raised. Like 13%, you just taught
00:28:51me something. Like I didn't think about that. I'm 36 and it never dawned on me to actually
00:28:57look at the population, the percentage of the population that we make up in that chunk of
00:29:03time. Because the population has been getting bigger. There's more people that live here.
00:29:08But we've been this exact, and it's the exact same percentage that messes with me.
00:29:15Because the numbers of Latinos have gone up. The numbers of everyone else have gone up.
00:29:19But we have stated, every census is 13. When I put it, it's 12. I'm just like, I have been,
00:29:27I grew up in Georgia. I have been through, I have been through a lot of this. I've been
00:29:3530 something states in the United States. We're everywhere. So you're not going to tell me that,
00:29:42but it's, again, it's to make us feel like that we're not contributing. We're not helpful. You know,
00:29:48it's, it's always been interesting to me that black people spend a lot of time just trying to be left
00:29:55alone. And white America cannot leave us alone. They can't. They don't know how. Because they're
00:30:02afraid that we will do, that we will take revenge one day for history. And they do not understand that
00:30:07we just want to be left the hell alone. They cannot get it. They can't get it. They don't
00:30:13understand that we don't want to come in murdering their children and, you know, burning it. We want
00:30:17to be left the hell alone. Stop fucking with us. Let, let us get home loans. Let us get business loans.
00:30:26Stop this mass incarceration nonsense. Quit expelling our, expelling and punishing our children at a
00:30:35higher rate in school. So you can assure that they get kicked out of school so they can end up in a
00:30:40pipeline to prison. Stop watching people's test scores from when they're in the third grade to
00:30:46figure out how many prisons you need to build. Quit giving us crazy ass sentencing if you put us in
00:30:51jail for longer than anybody else. So there's all of these things that are done. You know what you're
00:30:58doing. And I'm so glad that because of the protests over the summer, black people finally,
00:31:03because this whole, because we've been protesting since my mother was born. My mother was seven when
00:31:08my Luther King was assassinated. So since my mother was born, we have been protesting and we've been
00:31:14going, you wrote down on a piece of paper that all men were created equal. One, the word woman is not
00:31:21listed anywhere in the constitution or the bill of rights until women are given the right to vote.
00:31:26When people talk about, you know, black people being considered three-fifths of a person,
00:31:34that had nothing to do with us. That wasn't saying that we were lesser than.
00:31:43What it was, it was a compromise. So Southern planters, even though black people were considered
00:31:49property, and even though we weren't considered people, when it came to the House of Representatives
00:31:53in Congress, Southern planters were trying to use the slave population as real population and get
00:32:00more representatives in Congress. And people from the Northern states were like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
00:32:04whoa. They can't even vote. You can't use them. They still do that. They try to do that with prisons
00:32:09too. Like in there, when there was like certain challenges, it was prison. And they do it with
00:32:12prisons because you technically can't. And so when it comes to us being three-fifths of a person,
00:32:17there was a compromise with a white man, with a white man to go, okay, we won't let you count all
00:32:23hundred of these slaves. We'll let you count 60 of them. It had nothing to do with us. It was a deal
00:32:32between them. Because the thing is, when people talk about, you know, America and the people who
00:32:37are disenfranchised, the Republican Party did a genius thing of making poor white people think that
00:32:42they are working for them. Genius. They have literally have these people voting against their
00:32:47own interests. You're voting against Obamacare. You're voting against public assistance. You're
00:32:52voting against social security. You're voting against, you're voting against Roe v. Wade. You're
00:32:56voting against things that will be beneficial to you all because the Republican Party said, hey,
00:33:02listen, friends, you remember, you're white, you're better than them. No, no, no, no, no. You get on
00:33:07welfare. It's because you need it. When they get on welfare, it's because they're lazy. Vote against
00:33:12it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not going to affect you. It's going to affect them. And they
00:33:17vote against themselves on a regular basis. And then when they get fucked by it, they're like,
00:33:22wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm a red man. I've always been saying that poor white people,
00:33:29that poor class white people are the henchmen to white supremacy because basically when you think
00:33:35about wealth, like historically and the way that it was divvied up, it's one of those things where
00:33:41once like wealthy white people in the 1800s took a sip from capitalism's cup and started beating
00:33:49its chest, it began devouring its own young. And so that's one of those things when we talk about
00:33:55like racism and the need to dismantle white supremacy and these systems of anti-Blackness,
00:34:01it doesn't just benefit us. It benefits all of us because the thing is that it's, it's, it's, yeah,
00:34:09it's just one of those things that you would think that we would all be on the same page, but you just
00:34:13described it ever so succinctly. It's this kind of like. White people, white people have guaranteed
00:34:21white supremacy because they have made sure that because when, when the constitution was written,
00:34:29only white men who owned land could vote. Not all white men, only white men who owned land could
00:34:38vote. So only rich white men were allowed to be part of the political process. So that means that
00:34:45white men who were immigrants and poor had to find a way in the political process. Then Black men got the
00:34:52right to vote before women. Then Reconstruction happens. They're like, fuck that. We can't have
00:34:59these, you know, Negroes voting. Then women get it. Black women don't get the right to vote
00:35:04until the Voters' Rights Act. Now, when you talk about white supremacy, the genius thing that they have
00:35:12done is that when you look at people with no power, we're talking about bootstrapping being a myth.
00:35:20When we talk about, you know, people talk about rednecks and white trash people running around
00:35:24and yelling and all that. Think about, we know, we are told very early in media that the American dream
00:35:37doesn't technically include us. If we're doing well, that's great. If we can find a way to navigate
00:35:45through all of the pitfalls of sexism and racism and systematic oppression and get to be successful,
00:35:55cool. But we know we have to navigate all of those things because the American dream doesn't apply to us.
00:36:02And we know that. So when I get to the top, I can be like, all right, everybody come on because we're doing this.
00:36:10Now, imagine if the American dream was made for you. Imagine being a white person in America.
00:36:18Because think about it. Every time you see white people on TV, they're at a nice house.
00:36:24Every time you see white people in a movie, they're at a nice house. They got nice cars.
00:36:28They got a nice family. So if I'm a white person looking at America on TV
00:36:33and I'm being told the American dream and I can pull myself up in my bootstraps,
00:36:38not acknowledging systematic poverty, systematic oppression still applies to me because I'm poor
00:36:44because I live in a capitalistic society. So if the same people that are telling me,
00:36:50if you apply yourself, you can get the same thing that I have not to acknowledge.
00:36:55Hypocrisy.
00:36:55Right. It's a hypocrisy. Right. So if I'm a white person looking at this
00:37:02and I'm fifth generation, poor as hell, and I'm the first person in my family to graduate from college
00:37:10after five or six generations, seven, eight, nine generations, and we've been poor.
00:37:16If I'm descended from white sharecroppers, I've been poor the whole time.
00:37:19But America's telling me the whole time, you can have this, you can have this, you can have this.
00:37:26And you're, you know, and that's what you see. If I'm a white person in America who doesn't have
00:37:30these things, this is somebody's fault. Because America didn't lie to me because America loves me.
00:37:38America's a land of opportunity. America's a land of freedom. So whose fault is this?
00:37:43And then the Republican Party rolls in and goes, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you know how you don't have to.
00:37:47Yeah. Immigrants. You know why you don't have this? Black people. You know why you don't have this?
00:37:55Because of socialists. Because of the Democrats. So if I've been told the entire time that I'm
00:38:01supposed to be living like a fucking king, and then you tell me these are the people that are
00:38:05the reason that you don't live like this, you're going to hate those people. As opposed to looking
00:38:10at those people and going, hey, listen, we've been poor for generations. This is somebody's fault.
00:38:15It's not y'all. Because people, if you are a victim of systematic oppression and systematic poverty,
00:38:23you are a victim. Your abuser continues to abuse you. And so now, that's why I was glad that during
00:38:31the protest, if Black people finally got to the point, and I finally got to the point, I think we
00:38:36got, there was a certain switch that got hit. Because like I said, we've been protesting since
00:38:43my mother was born. And we've been saying the whole time, you wrote on this piece of paper that
00:38:47everybody was created equal, and you need to give us our rights, and we need to do this. And I think
00:38:52we got to the point this summer where it was like, uh-uh. We know you're liars.
00:38:56And I think another piece of it, too, is like people, like, I like how you talked about media
00:39:02and those moments in which you looked, and we all knew that like white people had nice houses.
00:39:08We knew that the Brady Bunch had a maid. We knew that these people, and I remember just growing up
00:39:15and, you know, watching TV shows, right? And just looking and seeing, you know, comparing myself to
00:39:21other, you know, basically thinking that because all, you know, all men are created equal,
00:39:26you know, we're equal. So again, this idea of meritocracy, if you work hard enough and,
00:39:32you know, do these things, you can have it. I didn't know that I was being gaslit at a young age.
00:39:38And so where, you know, was there ever a point for you growing up that you watched TV or you saw
00:39:45certain shows, rugged clicks for you personally, that like, wait a minute, this isn't including me?
00:39:52I always thought it didn't include me. My mother made it very clear. She's like, listen,
00:39:57first of all, this is TV. This is not real. I'm so glad my mother told me at a young age,
00:40:02this is TV. This is not real. That house is not real. Those people don't live there. These are not
00:40:07real places. This is Hollywood. She's like, this is fake. I knew PBS was real, but TV was fake.
00:40:17And there were a lot of shows that she would not let us watch because there weren't black people
00:40:22on those shows. So you can't watch it. There's no black people. I was allowed to watch full house
00:40:26dead ass. Also, my mother didn't like the idea of three grown ass men being in the house of three
00:40:32young girls that bothered her to a point. And she was like, I don't like, and he's, he's just a friend
00:40:36of the daddy. I don't like any of this. So there were a lot of shows that I was not allowed to watch
00:40:41because there weren't any black people on the shows. So I got to see my mother explain things
00:40:49to me as in, this is TV. This is fake. This is not how the real world lives. This is not how the
00:40:54real world looks. Plus. Was it ever a bonding moment for y'all? Cause I know growing up in my
00:40:58household, like TV was a bonding moment. Like you remember like TGI up like Friday night, like.
00:41:03Oh yeah. There was TV. You know, we could always watch family, you know, which she let us watch
00:41:07step-by-step, which I always thought was interesting. She had a problem with step-by-step
00:41:11before house. She was like, I was like, all these people are white too. But I guess there was a mama
00:41:16and daughters. She was fine with that. It was a whole, she was cool with that. She wouldn't,
00:41:20you know, that didn't bother her, but you know, there were shows like I remember, you know,
00:41:26Martin and living single and those shows. Um, I remember not being able to talk when it was the
00:41:33basketball finals, uh, when Star Trek was on and X-Files was on. We couldn't, we were not,
00:41:41shut up, be quiet. But a show that was a big bonding show for us was Star Trek.
00:41:49Star Trek, especially in like, even up until like Deep Space Nine, you know, that was like,
00:41:54Deep Space Nine is one of my favorite of the franchise. One, cause you got to see, uh, there
00:41:59was so much Cleon, so much blackness, uh, so many, um, you know, so many wavy weaves. Um,
00:42:06on a very beautiful, but that was a show that we kind of like bonded over. Like we watched a lot
00:42:10of sci-fi, watched like a lot of Nova, um, watched a lot of PBS hit. I don't too much stuff, but
00:42:16you know, though my mother always made sure that I knew that this isn't real. This isn't what America
00:42:25looks like because, you know, like people talk about like all this stuff happened with Cosby when
00:42:31my, you know, somebody was like, well, you know, it's a show that was significant for me. Cause that
00:42:35was the first time I ever saw a black doctor or a black lawyer. And I was like, dude, I grew up in
00:42:40Atlanta. I had black doctors. There were black lawyers on buses, phone books. You know, I saw a little
00:42:49I grew up in Atlanta with four black colleges. So like I saw black excellence. I saw black wealth
00:42:55from a very early age. So when I would see shows like Good Times or another other, you know,
00:43:01there was another show they had around for a while where it was like some family in South Central and
00:43:06they were always struggling. It was always sad. I'm not laughing at it. Like it's almost like,
00:43:12because like I always talk about the consumption of trauma porn and how like it's also like a form of
00:43:17entertainment for, you know, folks who aren't aware that. I got to the, I was so glad when I saw on
00:43:25Instagram one day where it was just like, I think it was a George Floyd video had gone up and somebody
00:43:30posted, you do not have to watch your own people be murdered. You don't have to watch this. Because
00:43:37I feel like. I wrote an article about it too. Right. And I feel like sometimes we feel like, you know,
00:43:41this is. This is another black person. This is a brother. This is, you know, family. I have to watch
00:43:50this. And it's like, you don't have to take this in. When we think about oppression to the goal of
00:43:55anti-blackness and acts of discrimination is to shatter you from the inside out. And so we always talk about
00:44:01how accessing black joy is an act of resistance. And that's why I personally love some of the work I see you
00:44:09doing lately. Like I saw you have this, um, this podcast called that black ass show. And right now
00:44:15there is so many, like even you were talking about living single and there's a show of girlfriends and
00:44:21all these, they're having this resurgence where they're like coming back and everybody's talking
00:44:25about them and binge watching them. So how did that black ass show come about? Like, what was that?
00:44:31It, um, so I was talking, I was in talks with star burns, um, audio about doing a podcast and Judith
00:44:42Carbo, who is a black woman, who was one of the producers over there. We had come with, I came
00:44:48with an idea and Judith approached me with this idea and I was like, yeah, I love it. Let's run it.
00:44:52So it was Judith's idea. And then, but the thing that I made sure of is that, so we got it,
00:44:58you know, I said, I would do it and we're getting ready to get into production of it. And they're
00:45:01like, okay, so your producers. And I was like, my producer is going to be Judith. And like,
00:45:06well, she's never produced a show before. And I was like, okay, good. My producer is going to be
00:45:10Judith. And I'm like, what do you mean? I was like, it's a black, it's called that black ass show.
00:45:15It's about black movies and television. I don't want a white dude as a producer. I said,
00:45:25so if someone has to help her, that's fine. But she is going to be the producer of this show.
00:45:33Like really, I said, if she's not the producer, I'm not doing it. So I made sure that my show about
00:45:39black shows, my podcast about black shows had the black producer who pitched the idea to me.
00:45:47Why would she not, why would she not be doing it? And so, and it was a very quick conversation.
00:45:55They were like, oh yeah, sure. I just love it. But it was just a little thing where it was just like,
00:46:00okay, they were going to let her pitch this and then have her do it. No, we're not doing that.
00:46:05We're not doing that. She's black. And then, and the girl who is the audio engineer,
00:46:11she's Mexican and Vietnamese. So there's no white people that work on my podcast other than I think
00:46:19maybe the dude that did the music, but it was very important to me to make sure that Judith stayed
00:46:23involved. First and foremost, it was her idea. Second, she's a black woman. Third, this is a black show
00:46:31about black shows. She has, she has to be there. So, you know, we did have an episode where we talked
00:46:40about the protests and, you know, we've made stuff to make sure that things have been timely and we've
00:46:48made sure, you know, the one that just came out last week, Sam Jay was talking about the Cosby show
00:46:52and, you know, it's basically how do we reconcile the show with the legacy of Bill Cosby and we kind
00:47:03of talk about that. And it kind of breaks down to that's on, some people can, you know, some people
00:47:11can detach the art from the artist. Some people can't, but that's your decision to make. And I think
00:47:18there's also a larger, sorry, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Well, there's also this larger conversation
00:47:23that we're having in healing spaces about restorative justice. And so like, what does that look like
00:47:29to be able to create space for the offender and those who've been harmed? Nobody else, you know,
00:47:36weighing in, nobody else, but having space for those people to decide what justice looks like for
00:47:44them and what rehabilitation looks like. And it's one of those things that's like wild too, because
00:47:50even with the whole Harvey Weinstein thing, and again, like violence is violence, you know, like
00:47:55whether it's coming from somebody who's Black or it's coming from somebody who's White, violence is
00:47:59violence. And we also see the ways in which there is more compassion and empathy when it's, or doubt
00:48:10even, when it's coming from somebody who's White and powerful than when it's someone who is, you know, Black
00:48:19and someone who also feels this stereotype of troll or trope of what people already assumed to be true
00:48:28about, you know, Black people or Black men or like this kind of thing is like, do you think that, did y'all
00:48:34cover any of that framing or? I mean, I think we kind of got to the point where it was just like,
00:48:43you know, because it seemed like that we're like, okay, we all found out what happened with Michael
00:48:47Jackson, but we're still listening to his music. And then we all found out what happened with R. Kelly
00:48:53and everyone was like, no, we're not talking about R. Kelly. So it's kind of, everyone is deciding,
00:48:59because I think we got to the point where we're just like, it's not for society to always say,
00:49:04we're all doing this. I think it's some, it's the point was, it's down to the individual to go,
00:49:11how do I feel about this? As for me, as someone who has survived being sexually assaulted more than
00:49:22once. So how do I, right, you too. So how do I reconcile what he did with the show? Thing is,
00:49:32I watched that show when I was a child. I'm not really, I've seen all the episodes. I'm not really
00:49:36going back to watch that. So my thing is, what I didn't like about the whole conversation,
00:49:43what bothered me about it was that it was everyone, and I just recently had the conversation
00:49:48with this dude who's like 26, I want to punch him in his mouth. He was saying, well, the only reason
00:49:54a woman would come out and say something like that is for clout. And I was like, what clout do you think
00:49:59a woman gets by going, by openly saying she was sexually assaulted? What clout are you talking about?
00:50:07Well, you know, they could write a book. 60 women can't write one book. 60 women can't write a book.
00:50:1260 women can't sue. 60 women can't do everything. 60 women can't get money.
00:50:18But what 60 women can do is support each other. That's what 60 women can do.
00:50:25When you had your 20 come out, now it's 40. Now it's 50. When you've got 10, you've got one. Oh,
00:50:30she's lying. 5, 10, 15, 20, 25. When we get to 25, 25 women lied. 25 women lied. Because this is my
00:50:42thing. I said, I think I said I tweeted or something. I was like, listen, if you think
00:50:46that the women of the world have gotten together to use sexual assault to take down men, we would
00:50:55have taken over the planet. What are you talking about? You're telling me that women all over the
00:51:00world who speak thousands of languages all decided at the same time to lie about being sexually
00:51:06assaulted? If we had an interconnected network that went over thousands of languages and all of
00:51:13languages, geography, socioeconomic status, if millions of women around the planet did this,
00:51:20we wouldn't have used it to lie. We would have taken over fucking governments. How dare
00:51:27you? That's what you think we did? All at the same time.
00:51:33And these are also these blurred lines of what consent really is. And I remember learning in
00:51:39my 30s. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I learned that even if you consent to doing this
00:51:46thing, you can stop at any time. You can say, you know, I didn't know that.
00:51:54I knew that kind of dude tell me that I couldn't stop. I was like, no, I don't want to do this
00:52:00anymore. And he was like, no, we're still doing this. And I was like, ah, this is a problem.
00:52:05Yeah. And I just had to get out alive. So.
00:52:08And these are the conversations that I'm so, that I'm enjoying about this moment where we're at in
00:52:13history is that we can come from different places and we all have a different on ramp in that
00:52:18conversation. So just like, you know, you knowing that, you know what, no, like I can set that
00:52:24boundary at any time. And me, you know, at a younger age in my early 20s, I was just kind of like,
00:52:30well, I found out in my, I found out in my, in my mid twenties that I could say no after consenting.
00:52:39And the question is, is he going to acknowledge the no? Because in my situation, he did not.
00:52:47And it was, no, I heard, I know you said, he's like, no, you can't do that. I'm like, I think I
00:52:51can. He's like, nope, we're still going. So now it's, now I no longer want to do this now. And he
00:52:58is on top of me. So there's a lot of time. There's so many things that you, you know,
00:53:06you know, you know, in your body, you know, as yourself, I am not comfortable with this. This
00:53:14is not okay. And whether I verbally or non-verbally said, this is not okay. It's not okay. Women
00:53:24have been saying no. People have been saying, not just women, people have been saying no in
00:53:31various ways forever. And it seems like this conversation is not about, has we're making
00:53:37it the conversation seem more. It's about that. You can say no. And the different ways you can say
00:53:44no. And you should say no. The conversation also, also, also has to focus on the fact of the other
00:53:50person acknowledging the no. Or checking in, you know, because I know that there were moments when
00:53:58I could not, you know, say anything wrong. I wasn't even, to be honest, there were moments
00:54:03where I was chic to the, like, there's no way that I could have offered anyone. And so just
00:54:08checking in, just be like, are we still good? Are we still good? Like, is, you know, let me
00:54:12know, you know. But you know, but you know, as a human being, that engaging in sex with someone
00:54:20who is not conscious is fucked up. You know that. You know that. You did not need a fucking
00:54:30poster in the subway to tell you that that was not okay. You knew that was not okay. The same
00:54:36reason that there's dudes that go after drunk girls in bars. Because she's more likely to say
00:54:41yes. If you wasn't such a bitch-ass dude, you'd talk to a sober girl. It's predatory, period. So
00:54:50we've put so much onus on. The survivors. The survivors. There's so much onus on women to
00:54:59be, you know, be aware of your surroundings and, you know, don't wear this and don't wear that and
00:55:06traveling groups. You're giving us all of these instructions. Because this is the thing. We've got
00:55:11self-defense classes. We've got mace. We've got tasers. We have rape whistles. We have sex. We
00:55:18have all of these different things to show women how to keep themselves safe. And no one is looking
00:55:23at men and going, stop attacking them. I shouldn't have to take a fucking self-defense class.
00:55:31Men shouldn't be attacking me. I shouldn't have to carry mace or taser or fucking brass knuckles in
00:55:39my purse. I shouldn't have to hold my keys in my hand. I shouldn't have to walk home with somebody
00:55:44else. I shouldn't have to do any of these things. But no one's telling men, if she tells you no one
00:55:49to bar, leave her alone. Don't follow her home. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stop following women
00:55:55places. If she didn't want to talk to you before, she's not going to want to talk to you if you show
00:55:59up at her house, I'm going to call the cops. She's with every right of her right to shoot you.
00:56:03We spend so much time telling the victims how to not be victims as opposed to telling the abuser
00:56:12how to not be abusers. So that's why I was so glad with everything that happened in summer
00:56:17where it was just like the black community just went, we are a part of the system. We didn't create
00:56:25it. So white people who created the system. Yeah. Well, we're normalizing violence against black
00:56:33women in general because, you know, even the conversation with Megan Thee Stallion came
00:56:36up and like that whole thing, like watching them drag that girl. Oh, it was the fact that
00:56:41I knew other black women who thought she was lying hurt me because as soon as I heard it,
00:56:46I was like, this is true. This is true. But I heard, I heard from a lot of very woke black
00:56:54women. She's lying. I'm like, why would she be lying? Why? That's the thing. It's like
00:57:04people are so quick to jump. Why did you, why did everybody always go, what reason does
00:57:09she have to lie? That was my thing. But it's now no one trusts anybody because everybody thinks
00:57:16everything is for God. When Kim Kardashian got robbed in Paris, everybody thought that she
00:57:19was a promotional stunt. You know what I thought? The girl got robbed. So now it's a total lack
00:57:29of sympathy for people. We've gotten to the point where now we don't even believe because
00:57:37it's like we're going to believe women, believe women, believe women. We didn't believe Megan
00:57:41the stallion a couple months ago. But y'all been saying, believe women when a disease
00:57:48and sorry shit happened and believe Bill Cosby and all of this. So when it comes to sexual
00:57:52assault, believe women across the board, fine. But if it's domestic violence, now we don't
00:57:59believe women. Why did Megan the stallion have to do all of that to make y'all believe her?
00:58:06Why? Why? As black women, why didn't we, why didn't every black woman believe her? Just
00:58:17off rip. He did it. Fuck him. Fine. Okay. Bye. Why didn't we do that? I heard from, I'm
00:58:23talking about black women I was friends with. Super woke. All is, shut down a DJ booth because
00:58:28they were playing R. Kelly woke. You didn't believe, you thought she got shot in both of her
00:58:35feet. Who, who lies about that? If you're going to lie about getting shot, you say you
00:58:40get shot in your arm, shot in your leg, not both of your feet. So stop. So that's what
00:58:49I'm glad is as black women, we've gotten to the point where it's just like, y'all can't
00:58:53keep abusing us. As black people, we've looked at white America and gone, y'all built this
00:58:58system. Y'all have to fix it. Y'all are the ones who wrote this down on paper. Y'all are
00:59:04the ones that have to reverse this shit. Slavery didn't get abolished until a bunch
00:59:09of white men voted for it to get abolished. The Civil Rights Act didn't get passed. The
00:59:13Voters' Rights Act, Roe v. not Roe v. Wade, Brown versus the Board of Education, the stopping
00:59:19of Jim Crow, the starting of Jim Crow. All of these things happened because white person
00:59:24looked at another white person and agreed that what they were doing was fucked up and then
00:59:28they wrote it down to fix it. So the problem is that people in America that are in power are
00:59:33predominantly white old men. So old white men have to look at old white men and go,
00:59:38you know what? You fucked up. We have to fix this. So quit asking us to prove our humanity
00:59:44to you. That was my, that was the best thing that happened. And I think it's because of the
00:59:50pandemic and everything because it's like America got shamed. America got shamed because it wasn't
00:59:57the people protesting just here. Every state had a protest. During the pandemic. During the pandemic.
01:00:05So you know. And all 50 states and Puerto Rico had a protest. They put a mural of George Floyd
01:00:15in a boat. There are men who had escaped the violence in Syria and put a mural to George Floyd
01:00:24on a blown up building because they understood. They were protesting in Kenya and Ghana and South
01:00:32Africa, which they didn't want to show us because you were showing me London and Japan and Australia
01:00:37and Turkey. You showed me that. You didn't want to show me the people that look like me were also
01:00:42protesting for me. That's what you didn't want to do. Mainstream media wasn't telling us that they
01:00:47were protesting for us. And now there's protests in Nigeria about their police abusing them.
01:00:52Yeah. And SARS. Yeah. And SARS. So we know that it's so, it's just, it's a corrupt system.
01:01:01Policing is a corrupt system. One of the things, and this is why, like, I really love following
01:01:07your work. I love, you know, Trevor Noah also. We've come to a place where we've also accepted
01:01:15a responsibility as creators, celebrities, influencers, those of us who have the ability
01:01:22to shift culture, to talk about these things in our work. And so we've met this moment with
01:01:28an opportunity to, you know, use media as a vehicle to, like, to transport and unpack this
01:01:38messaging. And so, like, what has that been like, to be able to actually use your comedy, to use your,
01:01:45you know, all of your talents and your skills to talk about these things? Because I think that
01:01:50that's also what's brought about the reckoning, is that we used to separate all those spaces. So
01:01:56it was like, okay, entertainment's entertainment. You know, church is church. You know, activism's
01:02:02activism, but watching the way that all these spaces are working together in concert.
01:02:08Uh, well, in the words of my mama, I talk about what I want to talk about. So I, this is what
01:02:16people don't realize, is even being a comment. Because it used to be a no-no. It used to be a big no-no.
01:02:23Because it used to be, for a celebrity to talk about anything political, the reason it was a no-no
01:02:31is because it would make your, it would divide your audience. And now it's gotten to the point
01:02:36as a celebrity, if you don't say something, it divides your audience. How dare you not? Don't
01:02:43you care about us? We're the ones that buy the tickets to your movies. We're the reason that
01:02:49you live in that nice house. You can't not say anything. But, and it's also, you're a person
01:02:55who lives here. Aren't you concerned? So I think that's just been the shift in, there's
01:03:01always been activism. That's how, you know, I can, that's why I don't go to a segregated
01:03:06bathroom. There's always been activism. But I think we are requiring people, because of
01:03:12social media, and because of the access that people now have to celebrities, we're requiring
01:03:18more from them. So since there are things happening, you have, in the world, you can
01:03:24tell me about your flat 20T, but you can't tell me how you feel about black lives? That's
01:03:29no. That's not an option anymore. That's not an option anymore. You posted one black square,
01:03:34one black square you posted. Yeah, let me tell you about that black square shit. That black
01:03:38square was a bunch of nonsense, period. I don't need a black square. I need you to say something.
01:03:43I need you to say something. That black square was a cop-out. That's what the black square
01:03:47was. The black square was, I'm being supportive without saying anything. I'm being supportive
01:03:55where the part of my audience that wouldn't agree with this probably doesn't even know what
01:04:00this is. As opposed to the people who didn't just post to black square, who flat out said,
01:04:08black lives matter, we need to end police brutality, we need to do these things.
01:04:13Which is important, too. It's important that also, like, the new car smell doesn't wear
01:04:20off because the Pew Research Center found that since June, white support for Black Lives Matter
01:04:33went from 65% down to 45%. And there were some other ethnic, non-black ethnic groups also that
01:04:42tapered off. And so it's also, like, about realizing that we're trying to do hundreds and hundreds and
01:04:48hundreds of years. But how did it taper off? Did you just change your mind? In June, you were turned up,
01:04:53and then all of a sudden, come September, you're like, they're still mad? How are they still mad?
01:04:58We're smart. They should be fine. People don't think about aftercare. People don't think about
01:05:04after a traumatic event, there needs to be aftercare. They don't acknowledge the fact that,
01:05:09for instance, some companies stopped making charcoal masks because, you know, for black,
01:05:17no, it's fucking, it's not black faces, it's a charcoal mask. What are we doing? Or it's,
01:05:22we're going to take Uncle, it was all of this performance. The Aunt Jemima shit. Listen,
01:05:29you gave Aunt Jemima a blowout in the 80s. I don't care. Honestly, because you know what I
01:05:33thought as a kid? Seeing Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, you know, I was like, man, black people own a lot
01:05:38of food companies. That's the fuck I thought as a kid. I saw blackface on a box. I'm like, of course she
01:05:44owns this. I don't know any difference. I'm eight. So for me, it was like, oh, this is racist. Okay,
01:05:50yeah, take it off. Fine, whatever. But as a kid, I was like, yo, that Aunt Jemima lady must be rich
01:05:55as fuck. That's what I thought as a child. So it was all this performative nonsense. We're going to
01:06:00take, you know, the Land O'Lakes people finally taking the Native American woman off the box of
01:06:05butter when they've been asking you forever to take the lady off the box of butter. So was everybody
01:06:09doing, because this is what it was. It was, fuck, I don't want that. We don't want this to hit us.
01:06:14We need to do something. Which makes me think that you knew the shit was shady all the time.
01:06:22But it's buying power too. So it's like the power of the purse, you know?
01:06:26I mean, but truly, the thing that was the most surprising was NASCAR having a Black Lives Matter
01:06:32car. Who thought that NASCAR was going to show up at all? That was the most surprising thing the
01:06:38whole time. I was like, NASCAR showed up before Sprite? NASCAR showed up before Sprite? Ah! Black
01:06:47people love Sprite. NASCAR did something before Sprite. Are you fucking kidding me? That's what
01:06:52caught me the most. I was like, whole car. Whole car. I had Bubba Wallace driving a damn car. I was
01:06:58like, no one, anybody, no one saw this coming. It was a lot of performative nonsense. And I didn't,
01:07:04and I thought it was, I don't care. I don't care. It was a lot of bullshit. It was, we put up our
01:07:11Black square, but you didn't say anything. But you didn't donate to a bail fund. You didn't donate to
01:07:15the ACLU. You didn't donate to NAACP. You did nothing. You posted a square. And then it was like,
01:07:21hey, Black people, don't boycott us. As opposed to Target that got burned down. And Target said,
01:07:27we'll build another Target. It's fine. And all of these people were trying to be mad when they did this
01:07:32to a Target. And Target went, we don't care. It's a store. Somebody died. What are you talking
01:07:39about? Shout out to Target, too. They're actually sponsoring this. They damn well should be. So,
01:07:46thank you, Target. I'll wait for my gift card later. Thank you so much.
01:07:51We all need a new rug. So, but like, that's why I was like, yeah, that makes sense. But when you
01:07:59realize that you are in a group of people who are seen as disposable, who are
01:08:02seen as property, then of course, and the thing is, at the end of the day, cops protect property.
01:08:10Think about the number of times. Cops going to music is too loud. Cops show up in something.
01:08:14Cops show up in situations that they shouldn't be fucking showing up in.
01:08:17You brought a gun to a non-fight. So, there's so much stuff that happens. I'm just like,
01:08:26I was glad that we were able to have a conversation where a lot of cities were like,
01:08:29you know what? Cops don't need to come to a noise disturbance. Cops don't need to show up.
01:08:37Cops don't need to show up a lot of the fucking time. Like, in other countries, like when I was in
01:08:41Scotland, I saw their cops running around doing something one day. They were trying to catch
01:08:44somebody, and none of them had a gun. I started laughing. Because the idea, I started laughing,
01:08:51because the idea of cops not having a gun was insane to me. Because I'm like, what are you even,
01:08:58are you supposed to, with that stick? Okay, sweetheart. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. All
01:09:02right, Siobhan. All right, Eric. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
01:09:06No, cops without a gun was laughable to me. I wanted to slap a cop in Scotland because I knew he
01:09:11wouldn't shoot me. I have wild thoughts, but I didn't do anything. I just went about my business because
01:09:14he was still a cop, but I was in a foreign fucking country. But yeah, it's, I'm glad that a lot of
01:09:20cities have gone. Because this is the thing at the end of the day, cops shouldn't shoot guilty
01:09:25people either. Cops should not have much free range as they have. Because if we live in a system
01:09:35that is innocent until proven guilty, how come he can kill me? You didn't prove I committed a crime.
01:09:43How is he more scared than I am? He's an awesome one of these places.
01:09:46They're not the judge and jury. He's not the judge and jury.
01:09:47He's not the judge and jury. My lawyer goes to school for eight years. He went to school
01:09:52for fucking six weeks. What are we talking about?
01:09:55They require more hours to be a cosmetologist than they do for law enforcement. True story.
01:10:02Oh, I'm fully aware. I'm fully aware. So all, so it's your, but your, but who gets to get
01:10:09those jobs? There's certain branches of the government that you can't get in. There's certain branches
01:10:14of the military that you can't get into if you have a GED. You can become a cop with a GED.
01:10:22You can become a cop with no, so you don't have to have any higher, I don't, you don't have to have
01:10:29any criminal justice training. We all saw a police academy. If you can jump through them tires and get
01:10:35over that wall, they'll hand you a gun. They'll hand you a gun. And, but because of your bias and
01:10:43because of, you know, cause it's not only the bias that they've grown up with, it's the bias that
01:10:49they're taught when they become police officers. The best example of that is stop and frisk.
01:10:54It was a policy, policy to stop black and brown men and frisk them just to see if they did any,
01:11:04just to see if they had something. What the fuck are you talking about?
01:11:11Yeah. And I think it's a conversation that we're going to continue having, you know, pre-election,
01:11:17post-election. For those of you who are watching, please exercise your right to vote for those of
01:11:25you who can. If you can, do it for those who can't. Thank you so much for joining us. This
01:11:32conversation is so, like, now y'all see why I gave all that in the beginning, right? I told y'all she
01:11:37was going to bring it. And speaking of bringing it, she's going to also be starring in this movie,
01:11:42Chick Bite, that's going to be coming out. Tell us about that really quick. Where can we,
01:11:47you guys, check that out? Uh, Chick Fights coming out, sorry, I ramble. Um, Chick Fights coming out
01:11:52November, sorry, um, November 13th on demand and in theaters. If you live somewhere where your movie
01:11:58theaters are open and it's safe to go, please go. Um, if it's not safe to go to the movie theater,
01:12:03please don't go. Um, but that's on demand so we still get your money. Um, but, uh, basically it's a
01:12:11movie about a, uh, female fight club and I play Charlene who is actually a police officer. Uh,
01:12:20and it was a very weird place to be, but, but, you know, but it was like my first, you know,
01:12:26it was one of my first big roles in a movie. Um, it's, it's alongside Malin Ackerman. She plays Anna
01:12:31and I play Charlene. Um, and it was, we filmed it in Puerto Rico and I got back a month before the
01:12:40quarantine started. I'd never been to Puerto Rico before. So it was great. Cause I had to like,
01:12:45you know, how you, you know, your girl keep her nails popping, you know, out here giving you
01:12:48Elsa, giving you winter queen, um, for the nine on in the 2000. So I had to get my nails cut down.
01:12:54Um, um, because I had to, I literally had to punch somebody. I had to punch. I get punched in the
01:13:02face. I had to punch somebody else. I had to punch some people. So I got to learn all this fight
01:13:06choreography. Um, we were shooting, um, in different, we were shooting on location around,
01:13:12um, San Juan. So it's a really amazing story. It's a story of, you know, it's a story of female
01:13:18empowerment really. And it's a story of really finding happiness in yourself and your situation,
01:13:26but also showing someone who is working through a tough time in their life. You know, the loss of a
01:13:34job, the loss of, you know, just a lot of, you know, family, a lot of different things and, you
01:13:39know, and having your best friend there who may not, or may or may not be the most helpful person
01:13:43to have along your side. But, uh, I got to meet Kevin Nash and I've been in love with him since
01:13:49I was 14 years old. Um, and Alec Mapa and Fortune Fenster. And I got to meet, and Dominic Jackson,
01:13:55um, is in the movie. And I didn't know she was in the movie. So when she got to stand, I was like,
01:14:00and I couldn't move. I couldn't. I met her froze. I was hiding. And Alec Mapa was like two inches
01:14:07shorter than me. I'm hiding behind Alec Mapa. Cause I was just like, and I just died. I just died.
01:14:13I was done. I melted into the floor. I was gone. The medic had to come get me and go,
01:14:17ma'am. I said, you don't understand. I was gone. I was down to the count. So,
01:14:22you know, it's a great movie. It's a well-written movie. It's, you know, it's focuses a lot on
01:14:27women and how women are supportive of each other in times of, you know, in times of need. And it's
01:14:34also very funny. It's a, I mean, it's a comedy. Um, I got to meet Alec Baldwin. I work with Bella Thorne.
01:14:40So it was a great opportunity. I'd never gotten so many B12 shots in my life, but
01:14:46I take a B12 shots, a cortisone shots and all kinds of stuff, but girl, you know,
01:14:52your girl made her first movie. So I'm really excited about it.
01:14:55Congratulations on that. Be sure to check that out. Y'all we're all about women's empowerment
01:15:00and supporting. And for those who want to follow your growth and your evolution in your craft,
01:15:05where can they do that on social media? I'm on everything at Dulce Sloan,
01:15:10D-U-L-C-E-S-L-O-A-N on the Facebooks, on the Insta whams, on the Twitters. I'm more active on
01:15:17Instagram because it's just a bunch of pictures and that's what I can, I get, it's just a scrolling
01:15:21pictures. Um, and yeah, and I have a website. I'm working out a new one because my website's
01:15:26kind of, you know, it's quite, you'd think I'd have done it in quarantine, but to try to stay
01:15:32alive, baby. We're learning Korean recipes. It's what I've been doing. I got a Korean cookbook.
01:15:36That's what I'm doing right now. So, but yeah, that's my socials and the movie comes out on the
01:15:4113th. Please watch it on demand or in theaters and Great North's coming out and Black Black Ass
01:15:47Show is on Spotify and iTunes and wherever you listen to podcasts and those come out every Wednesday.
01:15:54Thank you so much for sharing with us today. I'm Ashley Marie Preston. This is Dulce Sloan
01:15:59and this has been Hot Tate.
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