- 11 hours ago
Black women are taking breakups as blessings and bossing up. These careerists share their experiences with ESSENCE Business Editor Jasmine Browley.
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00:00I feel like it's like chapters that we close. And with every chapter, I mean, you're supposed
00:04to get better, right? You're supposed to level up a little bit. So yeah, I definitely feel like
00:08it's encouraging to see that growth, especially coming from a situation that was so painful.
00:18Hey, everybody. My name is Jasmine Browley, the business editor over at Essence. And I want to
00:24thank you so much for taking the time wherever you are to watch what is sure to be a phenomenal
00:29conversation with some extraordinary women. I am so happy to have you. Okay, so I'm here to talk
00:35about revenge, but not in the way you may think. It's a phenomenon that's its oldest time, but a
00:43newer spin is a revenge glow up that's been taking social media by storm. Did you know Black women
00:49were found to be the fastest growing demographic of entrepreneurs in the nation? 17%. The percentage
00:56of United States new business owners that Black women make up as compared to 10% of white women
01:02and 15% of white men. This boom in Black women entrepreneurs could be linked to attempts to
01:09affirm self-worth. A lot of women have been sharing their revenge glow up stories where they take a
01:15personal situation and turn it into nothing but wins. If you can relate, you're not alone. Black women
01:22are breaking barriers in academia, the C-suite, and entrepreneurship. But what's really fueling
01:29this achievement boom? So today, joining me to talk about all of this and so much more are my
01:36phenomenal guests and friends, Takiya Overstreet, Whitney Goines, and Amari Jackson. Hey, ladies.
01:44Hey. Hi. Okay. So like I said, we've all heard about the concept of a revenge glow up, right? And
01:55we've actually covered it over on our money and careers column on essence.com. And I have to say,
02:01I ruffled some feathers with my story, particularly with the headline, which begged the question of
02:07whether or not Black women's achievement and this, you know, phenomenon has been fueled by anger.
02:14So I wanted to pose the question to you all. Do you think there's any credence to that? If so,
02:20why or why not? You know, Whitney, I'm going to kick it off to you because we had a phenomenal
02:26conversation about this and I really, really loved your insight. So what do you think about,
02:30you know, that question around whether or not Black women's achievements have been fueled by anger?
02:38How does that make sense? Jasmine, and I don't, and also thank you for including me. I'm so happy
02:42to be here. I don't like to say that it's fueled by anger, right? I would prefer to use or describe
02:50it as, you know, we're constantly reflecting or like when we're disappointed by something or an
02:56outcome that we weren't, we didn't probably plan for because many of us are planners and are always
03:01looking ahead to the next step or the next, to achieve the next goal. When things don't turn out the
03:06way that we've planned, I feel like we take a step back, we reassess. And a lot of times,
03:13I know something that I've struggled with, I won't speak for everyone, is I start to kind of compare
03:18myself or even doubt myself and wonder, you know, was it me? Am I the reason why, you know, this
03:24situation didn't work out as it planned? And then from there, we try to level up. So we're constantly
03:28looking for the next, whether that's a certificate, a degree, a, you know, a business to start. We're
03:35constantly looking for something to, as almost validation. And I feel like for some of us, we've
03:41kind of done the work on ourselves to figure out, okay, we don't need to look for the external
03:46validation. We're already enough. But for many of us, sometimes it's just like, okay, I need something
03:50to keep going. I need something to take my mind off of, you know, the situation I just got out of.
03:55So that's, that's how I would look at it, but would love to hear, you know, the other ladies as
03:59well. Yeah, I love that reframe. You know, and I've talked about this with all of my friends,
04:05including Takiyah and Omari. Takiyah, you've had some recent experience with this. What do you think
04:11about that question? You know, whether or not this achievement boom has been driven by anger for
04:17black women? How does that make you feel? I think this is like a loaded question, honestly, because
04:23everybody's situation is different. And when I think about fueling something to achieve something
04:30else, I more think ambition. I don't like to say aggression, because I know that's kind of like
04:38a negative connotation within the black community. However, you know, like, like she said, we strive to
04:45be the best and strive to do what we need to do. We feel to do what's next. I don't necessarily feel
04:51like it's anger. I feel like it's more the drive, the ambition, you know, securing your goals. We're
05:00always constantly, you know, saying we got to level up, we got to do this, do that. And, you know,
05:05we can never relax, you know, so I think it's more coming from a place of being tired, honestly,
05:12of just, you know, people just thinking that, you know, we're angry all the time, we're not,
05:19we're actually happy, you know, we're happy, black women, we're happy to be successful. So,
05:25you know, it's just the things on the trajectory of one's life, really.
05:31Yeah, a key word that you pointed out that I really love is, it's not necessarily anger,
05:38it's just pure ambition. Amari, I wanted to ask you, because, you know, you've done phenomenal
05:46things for both your own career and your entire community. Would you consider yourself to have
05:53always been driven? Was that something that you think started from a young age? Or how do you
06:00consider yourself in that, in that term?
06:03I think a lot of my success was rooted in a little bit. So I'm a therapist. So I'm all about like
06:10acknowledging your whole gamut of emotions, right? So I think that some of it was not necessarily
06:15anger, but trauma, right? To like fueling that, like coming from a poverty stricken background or
06:22seeing other people in the community, you know, stuck in those situations and wanting to make a
06:27better life for myself. And some of that, there were some times when I was angry, because I was in
06:32situations that I couldn't choose to get myself out of, right? And so I think what I did in that
06:38respect was turn that anger into fuel and ambition, right? You know, being told you wouldn't amount to,
06:44you know, a certain thing because of the community that you grew up in or the family that you were
06:48rooted in. And so a lot of what I say is, is that there were some times when I was flat out angry,
06:53right? With the society, with my family, with, you know, the jobs that I had to, you know, work at that
06:59time. And that helped to fuel, but I didn't stay angry, right? I turned that into ambition, fueled
07:05myself into creating the life that I have for myself now.
07:08Yeah. You know, I love how honest you are. You know, you spoke to how certain situations that
07:15were completely out of your control did fuel some incredibly positive action in your life
07:22that's manifested itself into success. And you named, like I said, jobs, family, you know,
07:28just overall circumstances. But I wanted to ask you this, Amari, has a relationship ever driven
07:34you to do things that you probably wouldn't have done as well or as quickly had that situation not
07:42happened with a significant other? Oh, absolutely. I ain't gonna lie, right?
07:48Absolutely. When I was in graduate school, I went through a really tough breakup. The name of my
07:55business kind of is rooted from that breakup. And I was already on the trajectory to graduate,
08:01but it gave a little extra fire because I wasn't going to be broke and broken, right? So I was
08:06like, it's not going to happen. So for me, my heart is already broken. I might as well, you know,
08:17make sure that my life is set here. It's forth, right? Because I thought I would spend the rest of
08:21my life with this person. And so I was like, from here forward, I'll never be in a situation again
08:25where I'm broken and broke at the same time. So absolutely.
08:29Absolutely. Yeah. What about you, Whitney? Has that situation ever happened? And you fueled it
08:36into, you know, professional ambition? Absolutely. And something I just wanted to touch on too,
08:42because I feel like so it's a two prong thing, right? So one, we have just like the pressures
08:47from society and feeling like, okay, I have to go hard because one, there are little girls coming
08:52behind me there. You know, when we talk about the black community as a whole, there's little black boys
08:55and little black girls coming behind me too. So feeling like I have to open up those doors.
08:59So that's one reason I have to go extra hard. And then we talk about pain. And I love that,
09:03you know, I'll never be broke and broken, girl. Let's like, put it on a shirt, let's go.
09:10But yeah, when, when those sort of things happen, especially in relationships for me in particular,
09:15Jasmine, we talked about this, like, when things won't work out, I'm gone, like throw the whole city
09:20way. I'm out. Like, I don't, like, I don't need to stick around. I don't want to run into you out.
09:25Like, I would literally leave the city after I broke up. Or like, if I was even thinking about
09:31breaking up, I was thinking of an exit plan. So that way, it would just make the breakup easier.
09:34So I'm like, okay, don't want to do long distance. I got to go. So it's definitely fueled
09:40kind of like how I've moved. But then when I think about, you know, like the revenge glow up,
09:47I mean, it makes you go a little harder in the gym, it makes you go a little harder, you know,
09:50in the boardroom, too. It's just a matter of like, I will never be at the same place that you left me
09:57and not, not that they left us. But it's just a matter of like, the Whitney that you knew when we
10:03broke up, baby, she no longer lives here, right? So it's just the extra motivation. And I feel like
10:09it's like chapters that we close. And with every chapter, I mean, you're supposed to get better,
10:14right? You're supposed to level up a little bit. So yeah, I definitely feel like it's,
10:18it's encouraging to see that growth, especially coming from a situation that was so painful.
10:25Absolutely. What about you, Takiyah? Do you have experience with the revenge
10:30blow up from a personal experience?
10:33Yeah, you know, here recently, and I want to say in the recent year, I've gone through a lot
10:40as far as, quote unquote, breakups. And that kind of definitely fueled me even over the years.
10:47And I do kind of want to speak to what Amari was saying. I love the quote, by the way, I agree
10:52with everybody else, put it on t shirts, sell it. Okay. You need to publish this. I'm here.
10:56Anyways, I will say this, stemming from trauma, and even growing up, and you know, people telling you,
11:06oh, you're not good enough, or you're ugly, or you know, all these negative things. And then
11:13that kind of, if you don't fix it, it kind of rolls into your relationship. And you start accepting
11:18all the negative things that this other person is saying to you. And you feel as though, dang,
11:24I'm kind of low. Like, I feel like, okay, I can't move because this person, you don't realize that
11:30this person is bringing you down. And, you know, it's just so many things that kind of go into that.
11:37But I will say that trauma definitely plays a part in it. But, you know, like Beyonce says,
11:46the best revenge is your paper. Grow up, you get better, you learn from your mistakes. It doesn't
11:52matter how old you are, you're going to keep learning over and over and never beat yourself up. You know,
11:57you can go ahead and dwell in it if you want to, but rise up the next day or the next week,
12:03because there's bigger and better things waiting for you. And someone has somebody special for you.
12:08I mean, I want to say God has someone special for you. So a lot that goes into that.
12:14I totally agree. You know, we've been talking about these, you know, achievements in abstract terms,
12:22but I want to give you all the opportunity to really brag on yourselves. So can you all tell
12:28me about your own, you know, professional experience with revenge glow ups? What do you
12:36have a particular, you know, situation or achievement that inadvertently was fueled by a personal tragedy?
12:46I'll kick it off to you first, Amari. You already talked about, you know, while you were going
12:50through grad school. But I know you just opened your own, you know, holistic wellness practice.
12:57Beyond that, did you have any other situation that helped propel you forward during your professional
13:03blow up, so to speak?
13:06Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I was actually working for a holistic wellness doctor's office or medical
13:12practice. And I was up for a promotion. And when I tell you all the co workers that wanted that
13:19promotion, who turned on me, I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, what is going on? Right? So from
13:24that, though, the company ended up closing shortly thereafter. And I was in the first round of layoffs.
13:31And I remember a friend of mine who actually worked there and leadership told me, Oh, they let you go
13:37during the first round because they knew you would land on your feet. And I was like, Oh, okay.
13:43I'm gonna land on my feet. And I'm gonna tumble down the block. And I'm gonna do some car
13:46wheels and some backflips too. Right? And so for me, it was like, Oh, I will absolutely never be in a
13:52situation where the glass ceiling is coming down on me, right? It's falling on me. And so I decided
13:59from that point forward that I was going to start my own business. So I finished grad school, I worked
14:05a little bit longer at another organization. And as soon as I was able, I started my practice. I didn't
14:12know what I was in for right at the time. I started out just solo by myself. But since then,
14:17we've grown to a practice of 15 plus clinicians. We're located in Chicago on the south side, which
14:23is a big deal, right? Nothing like this exists over here. We also offer yoga, meditation, massage
14:29therapy. So I, you know, took that opportunity where I was working for a startup company and learned
14:35everything I needed to learn from being there, learn from that experience of being laid off for the
14:39first time ever, and then built my own organization that is steadily growing.
14:44I love that. Kudos, kudos, kudos. Whitney, we talked about your big move and, you know, some fabulous
14:53things that have happened in the last few years. Do you want to highlight anything in particular that you
15:00would say falls into this conversation? Yeah, I mean, like, throughout the years, like post, you know, breakup,
15:07I have had, you know, different professional achievements. But I feel like the main thing
15:12that came out of the breakup that I chatted with you about, Jasmine, that was referenced in the
15:18article, which was like in 2018 or so, was really just me finding my voice. So after that breakup,
15:25I started doing like these segments on social media called Wit Wednesdays, right? And every week,
15:31we talk about, you know, relationships, topics are like dating and sex. And really, it just it came as
15:37me, like, I'm naturally an inquisitive person. But I also wanted to see who else, you know, who who else
15:44were going through the same things. I wanted to hear, you know, men's opinion on things. And so to really
15:48just bridge the gaps on men and women being able to talk about different topics. And so I really say
15:54the beautiful thing about that breakup was really me finding my voice and also tapping into a talent
16:01that came naturally to me that I also really enjoyed, right? So, you know, that has led to,
16:06you know, different speaking engagements and hostings and things like that. So I really feel
16:11like I finally sat down and learned the lesson that I was supposed to learn versus, you know,
16:16moving all the time and running from that lesson, but just tapping into my own talent. So I feel like
16:20that's, that's something I want to brag upon. I absolutely adore that. And when I tell you all
16:26Whit Wednesdays is one of my favorite things to look forward to every week, we have a little dust
16:33bucket over there to thank for it a little bit. I, Takiyah, I wanted to ask you because you brought up
16:40something really important earlier about tapping into certain traumas and dealing with them effectively,
16:47you know, as you continue to climb professionally. Did you want to speak to anything that you have
16:54leveraged in your professional glow up that you want to highlight?
17:01Actually, I do. There's a few things. I hope I don't cry. It's a therapy session. But so stemming from
17:10trauma, like growing up in a household where someone tells you that you're not going to mountain anything,
17:16you're, you know, you're not beautiful, and you're just not going to make it and constantly kind of
17:22believe that, you know, you have no choice but to believe that, right? So I, I feel like my life
17:29kind of went like this. So now, fast forward to now. So I used to live in LA for about seven years. And
17:38then I moved back to Chicago about four years ago. When I was living in LA, I went through so many ups and
17:44downs in regards to, you know, people telling you that maybe this shouldn't be your profession,
17:49maybe you shouldn't be in PR, you're not, you know, aggressive enough, or you're not, it's funny,
17:54because you're black, I mean, you don't want to hear, oh, you're not aggressive enough, you know
17:57what I mean? But it's just, I don't even know where to start. But I will say this, when, when people kept
18:06telling me, like, I can't do this, or I can't do that, like kind of motivated me to do it. So I guess fast
18:12forward to now, I have my own brand firm, as far as PR goes, I work for myself, I used to work with
18:19a firm a couple of years ago. And I, you know, I had to branch away from that knowing who I was.
18:28And I had to, you know, pull myself up by the bootstraps and say, like, this is the person that
18:32I want to be. And this is what I'm going to achieve, I'm going to ignore all this negativity,
18:37and keep growing and, you know, keeping God first in my life, and just achieve those things,
18:43you know. And, you know, people will often doubt you. And especially as a black woman,
18:49we're constantly doubted every day. And it's like, I have to work twice as hard. I'm quite sure you
18:54ladies can relate to this as well. Because our counterparts, you know, it's easy for them to
18:59get the job or get the gig or get the clients or whatever, but you have to work just a little bit
19:04hard. They think like, Oh, I don't know. Well, can you show me something else that you did?
19:10But your counterpart over here gets the job just like that.
19:14I would agree with that. Because I feel like my friends and I, we talk about how other people are
19:19like awarded for mediocrity, and we have to go twice as hard to. And I feel like, or while you
19:25are while you both were sharing, actually, I was thinking, I'm like, I'm trying to figure out how
19:29much of it is subconscious to as far as like, when we talk about after a breakup,
19:34so we break up with someone is it almost again, let me know if I'm just being for myself,
19:39it's almost like, well, damn, I'm gonna end up by myself. So I got to go twice as hard so I can
19:43treat myself to all these luxuries in life. And I'm like, I got to make the bag because until I
19:48can get this dual income household, I gotta, I gotta supply, right? So I'm trying to figure out how
19:53much of it is kind of subconscious as well, as far as like, why I have to why I feel like I need to
19:58glow up after after a breakup or traumatic event. Because I feel like you have to prove yourself
20:03even after the breakup. It's like, oh, you just think you just gonna step on me and I'm not gonna
20:08get up. Yes, I am. And I'm gonna get this bag. And you don't see your social media. And I'm gonna block
20:13the imposter syndrome piece too, that kicks in a lot when you've been told you're not gonna, you
20:24know, amount to certain things or you see your counterparts successfully do it's like, am I
20:29supposed to be in these rooms? Am I supposed to have these things? If this person, you know,
20:34left me behind or these friends are no longer like, was I really that great of a person or great
20:39of a, you know, so all of that stuff kicks in. And that's a lot of the work that, you know,
20:43we talk about with clients and therapy spaces, like make sure that you feel, have that support
20:48somebody to talk through those traumas and those messages that you heard, because then
20:53they turn internal. And how do you turn it off? Yeah. That's all. Whitney, did you have
20:59something to say? I'm just I'm curious to know what y'all think, like, because when we talk
21:04about you brought up imposter syndrome, and I'm just over here, like, damn, as a black woman,
21:08we really have to deal with imposter syndrome, professionally, and personally, like, I got to
21:13bring this stuff to the relationship to really, because it's, and I was just watching this dating
21:20coach was talking about even on, like dating apps, black women are the least swiped on as far as like,
21:27people wanting to match with us, right. And so it's, it seems like there's always something that we
21:33have to kind of overcome. And so I just realized that we're dealing with that imposter syndrome,
21:37kind of like on both sides of the spectrum. Absolutely. It is, it's definitely, you know,
21:45a 360 degree cycle of BS, honestly. To put it plainly, you know, at this point, there's so many
21:54conversations around, you know, what success should look like, and how it should be treated,
22:01particularly through the lens of black women. You know, it just begs the question of whether or not
22:06ambition is a dirty word when it comes to us. And I wanted to pose that question to you all.
22:14What is your relationship with ambition? Do you regard it as something to, you know, hold in high
22:22regard? Or do you, do you leverage it in different ways, depending on situations that you're in?
22:29I feel like my relationship with ambition is complex, especially at this space, because I've
22:34accomplished, you know, quite a bit, and I'm proud of that. But also, it's always like, oh, well,
22:41what's the next thing, right? Or people, even when I'm feeling contented, people are like, oh, so what's
22:45next for you? And it's like, okay, wait a minute, can I just sit in this for five minutes, right? So
22:51I think it's complex, because I'm so motivated by, you know, helping change the way that community
22:58thinks about our community thinks about therapy and wellness. And I'm so, you know, committed to
23:04wanting to help other clinicians have a safe space, which is why I created, you know,
23:08Growing Balancing in the first place is so people have a safe space to come and work to join our
23:13practice. But then sometimes I'm like, should I just pause what we are, right, and be contented in what
23:19I've accomplished. So sometimes it's very complex, because I feel society or the community, Chicago,
23:27whatever it is, is waiting on my next thing. So it's complex, because I really would like to step
23:32into a soft life sometimes, right? You know, that's the buzzword right now. I would like to rest.
23:38But when I rest, then people are like, oh, what you doing? And I'm like, well, what am I doing,
23:43right? I'm uncomfortable sometimes in that rest. So it's very complex, because I, you know, am
23:49ambitious. I love what I do. And I love, you know, creating space for black people to heal. But
23:55I'm like, you know what, let's go use a nap or two, right? So it's very complex. So I don't know
24:01what you guys think. I would love to hear what everybody else has to say, because I'm tired.
24:06I understand on that. I can definitely expound on that a lot. But I will say this. Ambition and I
24:15have been together since I was five. And we go together real bad. And it's bad. Like Carisha
24:22says. But I will say that, what was it last year? Yeah, last year, I was burnt out. I wasn't doing
24:31my best. I was not, I can be honest and say, I was not doing my best work as a publicist. I felt as
24:36though, you know, the whole world was on my shoulders. I felt I had nowhere to turn, even
24:41though I was in therapy and all this other stuff, and in a decent, what I thought was a decent
24:47relationship, if you want to call it. But I realized I needed to take time for myself. And
24:55ambition had to take a step back. So what I did, thank God, I was able to take a rest for a
25:00couple months. So I had quit working on a project that I was working on for like a year. And
25:07I took a pause for the last couple months of last year from November to December. And I
25:13was like, thank you that I have the money to go ahead and do that, because not a lot of
25:18people can. But I needed that. Even if I didn't have it, like I needed that. And I realized
25:24I needed that. Because in January, when I tell you where I came back strong, and I kept
25:29booking this and that for this client. And I had clients galore. And it's just been such
25:34a blessing since then. And I can definitely relate to you, Amari, because you need that
25:40break. Even in your profession, you need, like, who are you going to run to? Like, you
25:45need to be able to sit down, sit by a beach or by water or whatever makes you feel at your
25:51best. And just take it all in and just relax and do whatever type of self care that makes
25:57you happy. You know what I mean? And that's something I had to learn last year, because
26:01you are, I am not my best self when I'm burnt out, you know, and ambition can be a good thing,
26:06but can also kind of be a bad thing as well. Because especially if you have a long term
26:10relationship with it, like, yeah, and that's something I want all black women to get I mean,
26:16black people as a whole, honestly, to get more comfortable with resting and just building
26:20ourselves back up. But as far as ambition, I feel like I've never necessarily rated my level
26:26of ambition, because I feel like it was just something that was ingrained in me and so many
26:31of us at such a young age that it almost became a part of my personality. Like, I don't know
26:36how much of it is actually innate or versus or just like taught and damn near drilled into
26:41me, right? So even when I think about being younger, and, you know, I had tested into like
26:47this prestigious all girls school where, you know, I was on scholarship. So then I had to,
26:52you know, maintain a certain level there. And, you know, being surrounded by people that,
26:55you know, we're not from the same background or in the same tax bracket. So it was already that
26:59pressure to stay, you know, to stay ahead, or at least keep up, right. And then it got to a point
27:06where, you know, the tuition got to be a bit too much. And so then, you know, approaching,
27:12taking initiative on my own to approach the head of school and say, like, look, this is my mom's dream
27:17to see me graduate from here, what can I do? So started working at the school to put myself,
27:21you know, through the rest of high school. And then from there, it's, you know, okay,
27:24where's Whitney going to go to college? What is this going to look like? And so I feel like it was,
27:28it's ambition, but also just like the pressure. And then making sure that, you know, so many people
27:35have poured into me, making sure that I'm also making them proud. And like, with the limited
27:40amount, like we know how precious time is. So I always say that I have this fear of running out
27:45of time before I become the woman that I want to be, or before I can show the people who poured into me,
27:50you know, it was worth it, right? So it's, it's ambition. And then this, like, this fear of time
27:55for me. Yeah, you know, I would like to speak on that time. I think time is like, we don't have
28:05enough time. I feel like that's how I feel in my head. Like, that's why I have to feel like I have
28:11to get things done. Now. I feel like that's why we always have to put a time on certain things time
28:15to get married, time to have kids, time. It's like time controls everything. And that's one
28:22thing I'm kind of still fighting a little bit on how to deal with that. And, you know, it's an
28:29ongoing battle for me. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's, it sucks because, of course, women have to deal
28:39with that complex relationship with time. But it's, it's doubly so for black women.
28:46One thing that I noticed with everyone's story, which has been phenomenal, and thank you all so
28:51much for being so vulnerable, is there's this duality, this dual relationship we have with
28:58ambition, where we clearly extricate all of the greatness, you know, that, that comes with being
29:05driven, but it comes at a cost, right? Omari, I wanted to pivot this to you, because you're the
29:13expert in the house. How can black women reconcile that complicated relationship that we have with
29:20ambition? And what are some things that we need to take into consideration as we continue to climb,
29:26particularly if we utilize certain emotions to drive our ambition?
29:31Yeah, so one of the things that I highly recommend to folks is if you experience a grand loss,
29:39whether it be a relationship or friendships ending, a job loss, take a moment, if you are able,
29:45well, we all have at least a moment, right, to just pause and ask yourself, right, is this degree
29:51that I'm creeping up on is something I really want, right? Is this house that I'm trying to buy
29:57something that I really, really want, right? Because a lot of what ends up happening is people
30:03jump, right, and make these decisions, make moves, get degrees, sign up for things, and then come to
30:09realize that those aren't the things that they really want. It's just something that gave them
30:13a stamp of, I got something done, or I didn't let XYZ stop me as a person. And so I recommend taking
30:21three to six months to really sit with yourself, especially for grand purchases or degrees,
30:26because those things are expensive, right, houses, degrees, cars, etc. So sitting with yourself for
30:32three to six months, going to therapy, right, getting into therapy services, especially after a breakup,
30:38right, because there's so many emotions, even when they're amicable, right, that's a huge loss.
30:43And the grief is very much so compared to someone actually dying, right? And so going to therapy
30:49services, and if you're in Chicago and don't have one, Grand Balanced League got plenty of them,
30:53so come on down. But making sure that you check in with yourself, right, and then have someone that
30:59is non-biased to that situation that can really check you and say, you know what, are you sure?
31:05Because just last week you told me you wanted to be an artist, but today you want to go to law school.
31:09Those, the math isn't math, right? And so that's what we do as therapists, right, is kind of like
31:15challenge some of those radical thoughts that we have, like, are you sure that's what you want?
31:19Because this is what you said, and this is what aligns with who you are. Three to six months,
31:25that helps you to really, like, get past that initial shock, right? The grieving process has
31:30kind of started to settle in. You move through some of the stages of grief, and then you can make an
31:35informed decision. And then after three to six months, if you say, you know what, yeah, I still want
31:39this doctorate. Okay. Then, you know, go ahead and apply and submit your application. And then
31:45still, as you're doing all the steps, making sure that you're checking in, right, because
31:49your Noah knows, right, your gut knows when it really wants something or it doesn't. If
31:54it's chaos and confusion with it, usually you don't really want it.
31:58Yeah.
31:58I mean, it's good that you said that because, if you don't mind me saying Jasmine, a lot of times
32:06women, even including myself, after a traumatic experience, we tend to pour ourselves into work
32:13immediately to get our mind off of things. And I think that's kind of what happened to
32:18me, and that's why I wasn't being my best self. So I think I owe you, like, just to invoice
32:23me because I think you just said what's going on in my head. But no, it makes sense. It makes
32:31a lot of sense.
32:32She just read both of us because literally after my breakup, I was telling Jasmine, I
32:37immediately started studying for the GMAT. I'm like, oh, I'm going back to school. Like,
32:40it is what it is. I was working with a life coach at that time. And she was like, but Whitney,
32:45why? And I'm like, what do you mean why? Like, it's another degree. But she just kept pressing
32:49me to ask myself why. And I did not get it until, like, maybe a year later when I ended
32:55up not going back to school because, like, things just weren't aligning. And so for me, it's
32:58always, if it feels forced, then I'm like, okay, God is not ready for me to go through
33:03that door yet. And so I took a break. And I'm so happy that I didn't pursue it at that
33:08time. Because, yeah, had I sat with myself for three to six months, it would have become
33:11more clear versus God having to say, no, sit down somewhere.
33:15So, I mean, it's totally credence to what, you know, our whole conversation is about.
33:21Revenge glow-ups are absolutely real, right? But is that glow-up the glow-up that you wanted
33:26for sure, right? Did you glow up in the way that you wanted to glow up? There are multiple
33:31other ways. You don't have to tack one another degree and millions of dollars in debt, right,
33:36to be able to do it. And I think that a lot of Black women specifically, because that's
33:40all of us and what we're talking about, if we sat with ourselves a little bit longer,
33:44a lot of us would be in different or completely different directions than we're in, right?
33:49If we sat with, really, what do I want? Not what I think society needs to see me have,
33:54because I went through this breakup, which probably was embarrassing. There might have
33:58been some shame associated with it. So now I need to show everybody that I'm still okay,
34:04right? And it's okay to just not be okay.
34:08I think that's a perfect note to end off on. Thank you so much, ladies. This has been phenomenal.
34:14Um, it fed my soul. I don't know about nobody else. Um, it definitely adds, you know, some really
34:22important context to what I think is a conversation. A lot of us have been having for a long time.
34:28So, um, again, I appreciate you so much and until next time. Bye. Thank you, Jasmine.
34:35Bye. Thank you.
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