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00:00Hi, noon, Jones and Keith. It's a Wednesday.
00:03It means it's time for Pure Hoops with Terp.
00:07That was a Scal two-and-a-half-hour love fest for Cooper Flagg last night.
00:11Did he coach him or something?
00:13I feel like Scal may have known this guy for a while.
00:17I think he has his phone number.
00:18Holy smokes.
00:19He's worked him out before.
00:20What a great connection.
00:21Which we would spend more time on if the Celtics didn't make a massive deal yesterday.
00:25Trade deadline tomorrow.
00:26Justin Turpin, WEI.com, is here.
00:29Follow him on Twitter at JustinMTurpin.
00:31What's up, Terp?
00:32What's up, guys?
00:33What a flag day.
00:34What a day.
00:35That's what it's all about.
00:36A busy week here in the NBA.
00:38Holy smokes.
00:38Trade deadline tomorrow.
00:40But we've already gotten some big-time moves.
00:43Now, it's not Giannis, but you've got Triple J.
00:45You've got James Harden.
00:46And then, obviously, there's Vucevic-Simon.
00:48So, immediate reaction to Simon's out, Vucevic in.
00:52Yeah, I like it.
00:53I mean, it fills an obvious need from day one, right?
00:56Look back to the media day.
00:57Brad Stevens was asked about the frontcourt, and he's like, I don't know what to expect.
01:01I don't really know how to predict it.
01:02And the reality is, it's gone far better than he could have thought, or anybody reasonably
01:07could have thought, what they've gotten out of Luka Garza and Amish Keita.
01:11But it's clear that they needed another big man.
01:13That was a big need for them.
01:14Look back to the Brooklyn game, right?
01:15They had two-way player Amari Williams closing out that game, and he did a great job.
01:19They've relied on him when they've needed emergency depth.
01:22And, like, Boucher and Tillman have fallen out of the rotation.
01:25So, you needed a big man.
01:27And it's not like they went out and got just a body, right?
01:30Vucevic is an impact player.
01:31Somebody that fits in pretty well here with what they want to do.
01:34He gives them a different dimension, too, offensively, with his presence in the post, with his ability
01:39to stretch the floor.
01:39I know Garza's been, you know, knocking down threes at a high rate, but he hasn't been
01:43attempting them the way that Vucevic will.
01:45So, it does make a lot of sense.
01:47It fills a positional need.
01:48Obviously, it's tough to move on from a guy like Simons, who we've been talking about,
01:51made one hell of a case to stay.
01:53I mean, he was terrific.
01:54Really bought into his role as an ultimate professional.
01:56But, you know, the need for a big man like that outweighed the need for a guard.
02:00I think if we're being consistent, I think we said all along, I'd trade Simons for a big.
02:05Right.
02:05And so, I don't know, Keith, do you think in a vacuum, forget fit on the team, forget
02:10contract and everything, which is, of course, a factor in everything the Celtics do.
02:14Who's a better player, Vucevic or Simons?
02:16So, I think for a long time, it would have been Vucevic.
02:19Now, it's probably Simons.
02:20Interesting.
02:21Based on the age?
02:21I would still say Vucevic.
02:23He's 35.
02:24A year ago, maybe, I would have said Vucevic.
02:26This might be where I swing it.
02:28But even with that, I'm going to turn it back.
02:29I think the fit is so much better.
02:31I agree.
02:31The fit, I think, makes it a pretty clear win for the Celtics.
02:34I just think Vucevic is a better player.
02:36He's good.
02:37And he's what they needed.
02:39And so, it's funny, with like, you know, not re-signing Horford is one thing.
02:43You know, salary dump of Porzingis is another.
02:46I feel like Brad's did a really good job with the Drew Holiday asset.
02:50Because I thought Drew Holiday was sort of, you know, towards the end of his career anyway.
02:54He gets Simons for him.
02:56And it was like, so yeah, it is, in a way, cutting salary.
02:59But I wouldn't call it a salary dump because you've got a player in return.
03:02This isn't like Jordan Hicks.
03:03Not a salary dump.
03:03You've got a player who helped you and was like a six-man candidate and all that.
03:08Won you a couple games.
03:09Like, the one where you got 39 off the bench.
03:10Like, you can't, like, discount what Simons did.
03:12The Inferno.
03:13Yeah.
03:13The Inferno.
03:14There are so many great nicknames on this team.
03:17The Inferno.
03:18Garzilla.
03:18I love Garzilla.
03:20That's awesome.
03:20That's tremendous.
03:21The Lawn Mower.
03:22The Lawn Mower has been on ice for a little while.
03:24Yeah.
03:24Yeah.
03:25But, like, too many of their good players are small.
03:29And so, we talked a lot about some of these games that they lost.
03:32They're giving up offensive rebounds to the other team.
03:35And it's just, you can't have Pritchard, White, Simons, Brown.
03:38Like, it's just a small group.
03:40And so, to move on from him, and I didn't think he was going to be back next year anyway.
03:44So, I just didn't want him to be a straight salary dump where you look at it and you're
03:47like, oh, wow.
03:48This was all about the apron and all about potential.
03:50Picks.
03:51Future moves that haven't even happened yet.
03:53You at least get a player who I think you could throw right into the starting lineup.
03:56And your team looks a lot better now in the East.
03:58You think he starts?
03:59I think he does.
04:00Not right away, but I think he will eventually start.
04:02I think it just makes the most sense.
04:03And, you know, looking at what he brings, it's kind of similar to what Al Horford brought,
04:07right?
04:07An older veteran who, he really doesn't have a ton of postseason experience, though.
04:11He's been in the league 15 years.
04:12He's only played 16 postseason games.
04:14Wow.
04:15That's some magic and bowls.
04:16Yeah, magic and bowls.
04:18And another thing with him is, you know, a lot of people are going to fixate on his defense.
04:21He's not the best defender.
04:23That's been one of the knocks on his game.
04:25But what were we saying about Anthony Simons when he got here?
04:27He's got to play more defense than Simons does.
04:31But two things.
04:32One, you and I talked about this previously, the whole idea, like, when Brad Stevens sets
04:36his eyes on someone, and you know he's got a crush, like, he'll find a way.
04:40Like, Vucevic's name.
04:41Drew Holliday was the perfect example.
04:42Yep.
04:42Vucevic's name.
04:43Obviously, he had a thing for Derek White for a long time.
04:46Like, he wanted this guy, but come hell or high water, he was going to find a way to get
04:50him.
04:50And I think he'll be a great fit.
04:51But I think this begs the captain obvious question, the offense that you could potentially
04:56lose from Simons, does that get replaced by the obvious possibly returning?
05:00I think, you know, that's a fair way to look at it when you're looking at the move that
05:04they made.
05:05I mean, you know, with Jason Tatum coming back, potentially Anthony Simons, you know, his scoring
05:10is more of a luxury, right?
05:12Because everyone's going to kind of go down the totem pole when Jason Tatum returns.
05:15There's going to be less shots available.
05:17And obviously, he's one of the best scorers in the game.
05:18So you really don't necessarily need that as much.
05:21I also think part of it is they truly did need a big more than they needed a guard like
05:25Simons.
05:26And they have to address that.
05:27Obviously, last night, they only had two active ball handlers, right?
05:30With Pritchard and White.
05:31And I expect them to do that.
05:32There's still plenty of time.
05:33Like, we'll see what happens.
05:34There's legal interest around Boucher.
05:36So we'll see if they can flip him or something.
05:38But you do need a guard.
05:39You addressed a big need, but in the process, you kind of open another one.
05:43I agree with your thought process on this.
05:46I think trading Simons tells me Tatum is coming back.
05:51Now, you could look at it and say they went and got Vucevic because Tatum isn't coming
05:55back to help the rebounding.
05:56And that's why they got a big.
05:57I would look at it and say Pritchard's going to the bench because Tatum's coming back.
06:01I know he came off the bench last night.
06:03But I think if Tatum wasn't coming back, they'd think longer and harder about that.
06:07Pritchard's going to the bench, which replaces Simons off the bench because Tatum's coming
06:11back and starting.
06:11That's how I look at it.
06:12How do you look at it, Keith?
06:13Yeah, same.
06:13Well, I was curious what Terp was going to think about that because Pritchard started every single
06:17game this year.
06:18And I was going back to the beginning of the year.
06:20I was like, you six man of the year.
06:21Keep him there.
06:22But he's been really good.
06:23He's been great as a starter.
06:25But he comes off the bench yesterday before you even have Vucevic.
06:28So like Baylor Shireman's in the starting lineup.
06:31Is that a change?
06:33Is the thought like, hey, it's going to be Tatum and Brown and White and Vucevic and like
06:38Kata, depending on the matchups.
06:39And then Pritchard can go back to that.
06:40Or what do you think the thinking is?
06:42Well, I think the big part of Pritchard coming off the bench last night, like I said, they
06:45only had two active ball handlers like you're going to need somebody to come off the bench
06:49and kind of spearhead that second unit.
06:51You need one of Derek White or Peyton Pritchard on the floor.
06:53I mean, Jalen Brown can do it.
06:54But yeah, you know, that's not really his strong suit.
06:56So you are going to need to add another guard, you know, kind of like we were saying.
07:00But it would make sense that, you know, Pritchard stays in that six man role where he was so
07:03impactful last year.
07:04And I think that kind of highlights where as much as we, this show especially, was a
07:09big fan of Anthony Simons, he was more of a luxury.
07:12I mean, and, you know, the players and even Joe Mazzula alluded to it at times, he was
07:16probably overqualified for the role that he was in.
07:18Well, it's like the Red Sox having extra outfielders where you're like, all right, this is great
07:22and all, but like they don't all fit together.
07:24Yeah, I agree.
07:25The roster didn't fit.
07:26This fits better.
07:27You might need a guard.
07:28I mean, Tatum's going to come back and handle the ball a lot.
07:30You know, White's going to handle the ball.
07:31Is he definitely coming back?
07:32Well, I don't know.
07:34We don't know.
07:35I say yes.
07:36No, I was all aboard until like two weeks ago.
07:39And now the fact that he dropped the doubt into the equation.
07:42Okay.
07:43And look, you can make a case when he's talking about chemistry.
07:45This is going to upset the chemistry when he was talking about that on the pivot.
07:49I feel better.
07:50I already thought Tatum was coming back.
07:51I feel more strongly about that after the trade.
07:53Does the trade impact your thinking on it?
07:54Yeah.
07:55No, I'm just asking aloud because I'm concerned that he might not because of how emotionally
08:00and physically taxing this was on him.
08:02But he should because now, you know, there's definitely a need for that.
08:07Can he subjugate the ego while he continues to get back up to health?
08:10If he says he's got the mama mentality, then his idol only played like 15 minutes a night
08:14and scored like what?
08:16Eight points the first half season that he returned as well?
08:18Like that's not nothing.
08:20And I think you hit it with the emotional thing with the Jason Tatum, you know, his second
08:23thoughts coming out last week.
08:25I mean, he had to move into his mother's house because he couldn't walk upstairs.
08:28He had to relearn how to walk.
08:29Like it's totally reasonable for a guy who just went through this traumatic injury to
08:33be like, okay, you know, maybe I am a little bit ahead of schedule.
08:35I don't want to do this again.
08:37I want to get it right the first time.
08:38Like he said, that's totally reasonable to think.
08:41Like, I think a lot of people are kind of jumping to the conclusions that it is about the
08:44ego and about his fitness lineup, which, you know, he did open the door for that
08:48conversation with his comments, but I think those two are separately or are separate
08:52rather.
08:53And it is totally reasonable to think that this guy coming back from a traumatic injury
08:57wants to just slow it down a little bit because he doesn't want to do it again.
09:00Yeah, it's funny.
09:01Yeah.
09:01I mentioned that you told me that yesterday.
09:03And then I mentioned that to my uncle Bob, who I watched the Sully's game with last
09:06night.
09:06And his first response was, yeah, I can think of 60 million reasons why he might want to
09:11get back out there.
09:12So I think there's going to be a lot of people that are going to say, I'm sorry you had to go
09:15to mom's for six weeks, but I'd love to do that.
09:17I feel.
09:18I mean, if you're cleared, you're cleared is how I feel.
09:20And I don't really, you had to go to your mom's because you couldn't walk upstairs.
09:23That's fine.
09:23If you're cleared and you're good to come back, you can play is how I would look at it.
09:27I think he's going to use this before.
09:28I think kind of looking at it like a, like a phone charger, right?
09:31When your phone's at a hundred percent, it's not going to go any higher.
09:33If he's at a hundred percent and he's a hundred percent clear to play, he can't get any more
09:37healthier.
09:37He should be out there.
09:38I think actually delaying it and sitting out would be more detrimental.
09:41I would think.
09:42Do you think Vucevic and Kada play together a little bit?
09:46Cause obviously they've gone small, but it's really the roster that they have or maybe
09:50it's what Missoula likes.
09:51Now that you might have the luxury of a couple of big men that actually can play, do you,
09:55do you twin tower it a little bit?
09:57I could definitely see it.
09:58And they all have different skill sets.
09:59Pritchard, white, brown, Vucevic, Kada.
10:02Yeah.
10:03Yeah.
10:03It's a nice line.
10:04It's not a bad line.
10:04And then when Tatum comes back, you'd be pretty big.
10:06You could go white, brown, Tatum, then the two bigs, then Pritchard off the bench.
10:09Yeah.
10:10It's different skill sets too.
10:11Like I think, you know, obviously Kada doesn't have that perimeter threat that Vucevic does,
10:15but he's a great screener.
10:16I mean, with Vucevic, you can go straight five out if you really wanted to, you keep
10:20Hauser in that starting lineup and it does offer a whole nother dimension again, like
10:24the offensive fit.
10:25I don't think anyone's really questioning.
10:27It's the defense.
10:28And that's when I look back at Anthony Simons and it's like, we were talking about it all
10:31summer.
10:32It's like, will he buy in defensively?
10:34It's been a blemish on his career.
10:35He's been known as a subpar defender.
10:37I think everyone would agree that he was beyond passable by the time he left and he came to Boston
10:42as a much better player leaving.
10:43I bet he'll be fine.
10:45I think he'll be fine because, no, I mean like defensively because like Ray Allen and
10:49Paul Pierce weren't defensive guys.
10:51And then once you're on a winning team and Turp pointed out, he's been in the league a
10:54long time.
10:54He's on a lot of bad teams.
10:56Now he's like, Hey, you're joining a team that's tied for second in the East is like
10:59guaranteed a playoff spot.
11:01I think, I think it also helps when you're playing with guys like Derek White and Jalen Brown.
11:04It allows you to be more aggressive.
11:06You are on a better defensive team.
11:08That's going to help.
11:09I just think you got to worry about Detroit if you're in the East and you need size to do that.
11:12That's why I think the Vucevic trade makes sense.
11:15I don't know if any of that matters to the owner.
11:16I'm sure you knew this was coming, Turp.
11:18It's from Bobby Marks yesterday.
11:20Boston's tax bill drops from $39.5 million to $17 million.
11:23They're out of the first apron.
11:25They're still in the luxury tax, but they are now eligible to sign a player that's waived
11:29that has a pre-existing salary of $14.1 million plus.
11:33They could dip below the luxury tax.
11:35They can make some moves now if they want.
11:36I think they generated another trade exception with this deal.
11:40I expect that to be used over the offseason though.
11:41How much of a factor was finances?
11:44I'm sure it was in consideration.
11:47For sure.
11:48I don't think it's necessarily a mandate.
11:50I think Brad Stevens has made that clear to get under the tax.
11:53But if you can save a couple million dollars while also adding an impact big, it wasn't
11:58like they sold it off.
11:59I think that was the biggest issue.
12:01Like you mentioned earlier, Jones, moving Simons for a player for a big was fine as long
12:06as it was a big that can contribute and that you can count on.
12:08I think Vucevic fits that.
12:10So we'll see what happens.
12:11Obviously, you know, there is another hole now.
12:13I think if you're looking at the postseason and, you know, we still got what, 48 hours
12:17roughly, give or take, until the trade deadline.
12:20So there is time for additional moves.
12:22But right now, looking at the roster, everyone would kind of look at that ball handling slash
12:26guard role right now.
12:28And you wouldn't really be too comfortable with that.
12:30So we'll see what happens.
12:31I like the flexibility they added with the ability to dip back into guys that were making
12:35the mid-level at $14.1 million gives you an opportunity to assign better players.
12:40So I think there's a good chance that you come out of this trade deadline a better team
12:44than you went into it by adding a big and another impact guard.
12:47Great game tonight, by the way.
12:48Celtics at Rockets.
12:49Oh, yeah.
12:50Unfortunately, they get them on back-to-backs both times.
12:53Like, I'd love to see them play them like, you know, and it's, you know, it's part of
12:56the NBA.
12:57The scheduling is...
12:58No, no, no.
12:58But that team, back-to-back might bother Durant.
13:01It's not going to bother guys like Ahmed Thompson and guys like that.
13:04Right.
13:04But for the Celtics, yeah, that's a detriment going against the Rockets.
13:07With that physicality and that size.
13:09It'd be fun to have...
13:09Chase Cooper Flagg and, you know, all of the Scalabrini praise all over the court last night.
13:14Good Lord.
13:15Would you rather Wednesday, Terp, would you rather have Cooper Flagg or Victor Wimbayama?
13:19Ooh, that's a good one.
13:21Probably Wemby, though.
13:22Wemby, yeah, it's got to be Wemby.
13:23He is, like...
13:24Flagg's awesome.
13:24People, like, just...
13:25Like, he is quite literally an alien, like, when people say it.
13:28Like, what he does...
13:29And it's funny, like, listening to other players talk about him around the league.
13:32It's like, I've just never seen what this guy is able to do at his size.
13:36I mean, the one thing you...
13:38The one concern you have about him is his health.
13:40Like, that's, you know, kind of popped up.
13:42He's so tall.
13:42Yeah, like, those guys don't age.
13:43Those guys don't age.
13:44And he's only getting taller.
13:45I don't think he's fully grown yet.
13:46Right.
13:47No.
13:47He might be, like, seven and a half, eight feet tall by when it's all said and done.
13:50His cognitive powers don't even finish till 27, so he might just become so smart.
13:56You can't even...
13:56I mean, but what Cooper Flagg?
13:57No, Flagg's great.
13:58Flagg's awesome.
13:59He's 19 years old.
14:00Like, yeah, yeah.
14:00No, he's really good.
14:01He's living up to the hype.
14:02100% looks like your friend's son who's a bar back at an apres ski place in Vermont.
14:08That look of his is, like, so...
14:10You know what I'm talking about, right?
14:11Oh, yeah.
14:11With that goatee and everything.
14:12But he's going to look great in a Celtics uniform in five years.
14:16Terp, this schedule is...
14:18Well, first question, does Giannis get traded?
14:20I think that comes in the summer.
14:22Oh, I was hoping for now.
14:23That just would have made this...
14:24This deadline's been crazy, though.
14:26I know, but, like, after the Super Bowl, if you knew that, like, Giannis moved to a different
14:29team and Tatum's coming back and can anyone knock off the thunder?
14:33Whether, like, the NBA has a chance to really, like, take a big step forward with all the
14:39new broadcasting and the visibility, and then if you move, like, a super stud, like
14:42an all-timer, like a Giannis at the deadline, that could be ratings gold.
14:47It's hard to move guys like that.
14:49Like, we saw with Luka.
14:50I know the circumstances were much different, but, like, people were protesting the games
14:53and stuff, and I think the Giannis one, I think, you know, there's kind of a notice
14:57that it's around its course, and both parties kind of agree with that.
15:00But it is tough to move one of those guys.
15:03I feel like they just held on too long.
15:04Like, they should have done it over the offseason and made that move then, and you probably would
15:09have had a more higher trade value, but Miami has the ability to add more picks over the
15:14summer, so if this is about kind of rebuilding, which you'd imagine it is, trading a guy like
15:17Giannis, I think it would make more sense for them to wait, because Miami will be well
15:21equipped to make a move for them.
15:23Golden State has a pretty compelling offer, but if you're adding Draymond Green, I mean, still
15:27a great player, but what are you really going to do with him if you're rebuilding
15:30team?
15:30So, James Harden gets traded to Cleveland.
15:32I've always liked Cleveland just because of the Donovan Mitchell.
15:35I think they, besides Detroit, are the next team that the Celtics need to kind of worry
15:39about or compete with in the East.
15:41What do you think it does to their chances?
15:43I mean, I think it certainly makes them better.
15:45Just on the surface, James Harden's a better player than Darius Garland, at least in the
15:49short term.
15:49In the long term, you'd probably rather have Garland.
15:51Maybe not in the playoffs.
15:52Yeah, not in the playoffs either.
15:53Harden's a killer.
15:54I mean, Donovan Mitchell's also a killer in the playoffs, though, so that'll help.
15:57But I'm just wondering how long it takes until he points to another team, spins the NBA
16:01wheel, and looks at it.
16:02He's like, I want to go there.
16:03And then he's traded there in less than 48 hours.
16:05Holiday to the Knicks?
16:08No, no, no.
16:08Oh, no, no.
16:09It didn't happen yet.
16:10But that's been in the rumor mill.
16:11Would that be something that makes you a little more anxious about playing the Knicks, or
16:15does that make them even a prohibited favorite in the East?
16:18Without a doubt.
16:19I mean, we saw how impactful Drew Holiday is in the first season.
16:23You think without a doubt it makes him the favorite in the East?
16:24Not the favorite.
16:25Well, it makes him more intimidating.
16:27No, no, no.
16:27Not the favorite.
16:28That would be a heartbreaker to have to play him in the playoffs, because everyone loved
16:33him.
16:33He was so damn good here.
16:34But it would make sense to get out of Portland and get back after it with the Knicks.
16:38I mean, he's been great in Portland, too.
16:39So when he's been on the court, he's missed a lot of games.
16:42And those calf injuries, their teams are really careful with those.
16:45And that's what he missed a lot of time with earlier in the year.
16:47So if they get him, I'd feel a lot better about the Knicks.
16:50But right now, I just can't overlook Detroit and what they're doing.
16:53And same thing with Cleveland, just going out and getting James Hart.
16:56Okay.
16:56Pure hoops with Terp every Wednesday.
16:58Good time in here, Terp.
16:59A prediction on what they do tomorrow?
17:01Anything, or are they done?
17:02No, I think they're out of guard.
17:03And I think Chris Boucher, I mean, he's been getting interest around the league.
17:06I think he's one that, you know, certainly an option to go.
17:09But I don't think it's a, you know, I think it's kind of telling yesterday that he was
17:13scratched with, you know, a personal reason.
17:15So I think that's certainly one.
17:17And it's one that can save him a little bit more money against the tax.
17:20So I'd imagine that he probably won't be here.
17:22That pairing just hasn't worked out as much as they probably thought it would have.
17:25Okay.
17:26It's all about the tax.
17:26You heard him.
17:27Before the trade deadline tomorrow, pure hoops with Terp every Wednesday at high noon.
17:33Good stuff, Terp.
17:34All right, guys.
17:34As always, follow him on Twitter at Justin M. Turpin.
17:37Billy Laney with all the latest here in trending.
17:39When we come back, we can revisit a little of our tale of the tape.
17:42We officially are predicting a Patriots Super Bowl win based on science.
17:46Tale of the tape up now at Jones and Keefe.
17:48And more with Fitzy.
17:49You can't deny science.
17:50You can't.
17:50More with Fitzy right after trending with Billy.
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