00:00When you have to, when you don't have water and you now have to go in a line to get water,
00:04that means that you have to pick up your children at a different time. That means you have to leave
00:08work at a different time. That may mean if you work in a service industry that depends on that
00:12water, that now you don't have hours and can't work. Your children may be in virtual learning,
00:17and that means that you have to make a decision whether you stay home with your children and
00:21whether your work or your job is sensitive enough to your plight that they will allow you to stay
00:26home. All of these things become major interruptions in our lives. There's been a failure
00:31to recognize this as a unified problem, you know, as a problem both on the state and even at times
00:39the federal level, understanding that we lived in an aging America. For the water system alone,
00:45it would have to be in access of more than $200 million. Hi, Essence family. My name is Malika
00:52Jabali, the senior news and politics editor at Essence magazine. And today we are here with
00:59Jackson Mayor Chokwe Lumumba for a really important conversation about what is going on in Jackson,
01:05Mississippi. As most of you probably heard, late August, President Joe Biden declared a federal
01:11emergency in Jackson because of failures with its water treatment system and other water issues that
01:16have been going on. So we're going to jump right to it. Mayor Lumumba, can you tell us about the status
01:20of the water service right now? Well, Malika, first and foremost, I want to thank you for having me
01:26and thank you for lifting up this discussion. Fortunately, there is better news today than when
01:32we started. All Jackson residents should have water pressure restored to them. The next phase is
01:39actually going through the testing process so that the boil water notice can be lifted. There is
01:46investigatory sampling taking place at the water treatment facility, looking at that quality. And
01:52we believe that it's a matter of days, not weeks until we can not only start the process of the
01:57official samples at approximately 120 sites across the city. If all of them come back clear for two
02:04consecutive days, then the boil water notice will be lifted. So we believe that we're at the tail end of
02:10that process. But but this is, you know, one of the more important factors that I want to lift up. We've been
02:16here before where we've had pressure go down that we've had boil water notices. And we've been here before where
02:22we've restored the pressure and ended boil water notices. But unless there is a significant capital
02:28improvement, a significant investment to ensure that we have a safe, reliable and dependable system, then it's not a matter of if
02:36these systems will fail again, but a matter of when they will fail again. And that is my greatest concern.
02:42So if you could be explicit about what issues there are, so there have been boil water notices,
02:48you noted the water pressure, what else is happening? Or what has happened over the years with water service for Jackson residents?
02:55Well, the the issues are varied. In fact, it's a set of accumulated challenges over the better part of 30 years or more.
03:02Right. So you can imagine what has accumulated in that time. We have raw water screen screens that commonly fail.
03:10We have raw water pumps that commonly fail. We have clear track systems, you know, and water experts would know what these are.
03:17And I have a degree of understanding, but it would take too much time in this this discussion to to explain each one of those.
03:23But expensive equipment that fails. So we've had challenges on both our conventional side and our membrane side.
03:31And Jackson has probably one of the most complex, if not the most complex water treatment facilities in the country,
03:37because within the same facility footprint, we're the only city that we've identified that has both a conventional treatment system
03:45and a membrane treatment system. Most cities are either one or the other.
03:50And what exacerbates all of these challenges is the fact that we are understaffed.
03:55One of the reasons that we're understaffed is that we're one of two cities in the entire state
03:59that requires a class A operator certification because we're one of two cities that has a surface water system.
04:07So that means that the bench of professionals is very shallow. Right.
04:11That we have a very short bench. And secondly, even more daunting is the fact that we have the only system
04:18that requires expertise in both conventional and membrane and membrane treatment processes.
04:25And there are not many people who know both. Right.
04:29And I imagine with them having needing advanced education, that costs money.
04:34So speaking of money, you've mentioned before about divestment from the city and it's 100 over 150,000 residents,
04:43which is a majority black city. It's the capital of Mississippi.
04:47Can you talk about the divestment from Jackson, Mississippi, how that affects residents in their day to day lives?
04:54And this rush, there's racial justice angle attributed with that associated with that.
04:59Well, that that's on two fronts as well. One, the white flight that took place after the leadership began to resemble
05:10the majority of the community. And with the the flight was tax revenue that meant that, you know,
05:18there were systems, there was infrastructure put in place that was built to serve a larger population.
05:23And now that they have gone away, that that smaller population still bears the burden of funding it.
05:31So that's on one end. And then on the other end is is a lack of or disproportionate lack of investment
05:38from in cities like Jackson compared to other places from the state.
05:43The state has turned a cold shoulder to the city of Jackson for decades now and through numerous attempts,
05:50not only through my administration, but through my predecessors of getting the resources to address this aging and failing infrastructure.
05:58It is, you know, met deaf come fall upon deaf ears. And so all of that leads to where we are.
06:07And I believe that we're in a moment where we can achieve something.
06:11And when I say we not only myself and my administration, but if we can keep the governor at the table,
06:17if we can keep the federal government at the table, something that hasn't been achieved in generations.
06:21I moved to Jackson in 1988 as a little boy. I distinctly remember in 1989, a freeze that debilitated our water system at that time.
06:30And over the years, the times in which our system has had challenged or collapsed or or we've been told to boil waters for water is too too voluminous for me to recount.
06:44Now, the dynamic here reminds me a bit of the dynamic in Georgia, where we have a somewhat liberal, progressive capital city of Atlanta,
06:53and we have a conservative governor, conservative state legislature.
06:57So how do you see getting past some of these?
07:02Well, I mean, these shouldn't be ideological differences, but we know that unfortunately,
07:07when it comes to infrastructure and things like that and social investment that has been politicized.
07:12So how do you see getting past that impasse?
07:15You know, first of all, two things. I don't believe that it requires someone that that, you know,
07:19subscribes to my ideology for me to work with them.
07:23I believe that if you can only organize people who think like you, you're not much of an organizer.
07:28So I think we can come to the table in the spirit of unity, debate unity,
07:32come in the room, understanding where we're already unified, debate where we may have differences
07:37with the objective of reaching greater unity than we arrived with.
07:41And this is not, you know, just some theory. This is something that we've been able to achieve.
07:45This is my second term. In my first term, I arrived under the threat of the school district being taken over.
07:51And it was all but the governor's signature away from being taken over.
07:55And so I was able to sit down with the governor.
07:57We were able to demonstrate what I call operational unity, where we could focus more on our common ends and objectives than our differences.
08:04We were able to talk about the fact that that we both had a vision or projection of of of a better school district that was more encompassing of the goals and aspirations of our parents and children.
08:17And we were able to both agree that we we thought that there was room for improvement.
08:22And so then we ironed out the details of how we accomplished that, because what I remember detailing to the governor is that state takeovers are never successful.
08:32You know, not in Mississippi, not in any other state and even the most successful state takeovers still fall short because at some point it has to be transferred back into local leadership.
08:45And if you've done no work in order to prepare for that, then you find yourselves in the same challenge or the challenges that you were in prior to.
08:55And so, you know, that is just one example of how people of different stripes or different ideology can come together and focus on a very real and important issue.
09:05We're not talking about Republican or Democratic water.
09:07We're not talking about, you know, progressive or or or conservative water.
09:12We're talking about water that serves human beings, that serves men, women and children, elderly people who need it not only for life, but, you know, just, you know, dealing with convenience and financial matters.
09:26When you have to when you don't have water and you now have to go on a line to get water, that means that you have to pick up your children at a different time.
09:33That means you have to leave work at a different time.
09:36That may mean if you work in a service industry that depends on that water that now you don't have hours and can't work.
09:41Your children may be in virtual learning.
09:44And that means that that you have to make a decision whether you stay home with your children and whether your work or your job is sensitive enough to your flight that they will allow you to stay home.
09:53All of these things become major interruptions in our lives.
09:57Mayor Lumumba, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us in the middle of ongoing issues that you are dealing with in your city.
10:04And we wish you all the best in resolving this.
10:09Thank you. Thank you.
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