- 7 minutes ago
24 Hours in Police Custody S00E42 Burying Horror (27th January 2026)
Category
🦄
CreativityTranscript
00:00MUSIC
00:08Can you give me your full name and date of birth, please?
00:11Yeah, Carson Grimes. Yeah, second, 1956.
00:15Do you know what grooming is?
00:17No comment.
00:20Carson Grimes started abusing girls and boys in the 1980s.
00:25Some went to the police.
00:27He was arrested eight times.
00:30But ultimately, he was left to hurt more children over 20 years.
00:37Every single one of victims had really bad effects of drink
00:42that you made, similar to rohypnol.
00:45How come?
00:46He was pinned down, faked down on your living room floor,
00:49and you were anally raping him.
00:51And you tell him, if you ever tell anyone what's just happened,
00:53I'll kill you.
00:54How come?
00:55I see this program on TV, 25 hours in police custody.
01:11I know this guy.
01:13I think he's sexy.
01:14I think he was one of my friends.
01:15I know him, but I'm one of his victims.
01:18He's done similar things to me, whether he's more medicine.
01:21You've got this predominant paedophile that's carried on for three decades.
01:27Was there a kid that fought back?
01:30He had a garden.
01:30So we've had some ladies who used to live next door to him.
01:36When she lived there, she was always constantly digging up bones.
01:39Bones.
01:41As in, right, OK.
01:42So we asked all of them to describe them.
01:44She said once they found an entire sort of long bone
01:46that looked like a joint,
01:49they used to see they lived in an old cemetery.
01:51But now that I've been to do something more sinister.
02:04It's crucial that we find the truth.
02:08Got to question everything.
02:12Believe nobody.
02:14It's almost a game of chess.
02:16Trying to get him to slip up.
02:18This is your opportunity to talk to me.
02:21It's a lot of emotions to try and understand
02:30what's happened with Carson.
02:32And obviously they're all coming to the surface now
02:33because of what you've seen on the telly
02:36and also knowing what you've been through as well.
02:39Carson Grimes was finally sentenced to life in 2021
02:43for abusing nine children.
02:46But once the news became public,
02:48Bedfordshire police received a flood of new reports
02:50of his crimes,
02:52revealing that the extent of his criminality
02:54was far greater than they feared.
02:57An incident room is set up
02:59to cope with the new allegations.
03:01We've had four calls saying they are victims of his.
03:04That person I just spoke to said
03:06he was watching it
03:07because he used to live in Luton
03:08and he saw it and he just...
03:11His partner said,
03:13you've lost all the colour in your face,
03:15what's going on, what's the matter?
03:17Bless him.
03:26So we've had some ladies who used to live next door to him.
03:28When she lived there,
03:29she was always constantly digging up bones in the garden.
03:31So Grimes is now 65,
03:36convicted of 39 offences against nine victims in the end.
03:39They were all very similar in the MO,
03:41all saying that they went to Carson Grimes' house
03:43in Luton, Selborne Road.
03:45They were all given a drink of some kind,
03:49which then they just remember kind of waking up,
03:53having been sort of half-conscious or completely unconscious
03:56and not remembering what happened.
03:58Others remembered full anal rapes.
04:01In my time, I'm not aware of another Carson Grimes,
04:06another paedophile that has offended as prolifically
04:10over such a long period as he has.
04:16So if we just talk through the new victims,
04:19these are going to be the people
04:20that we're going to be dealing with.
04:21Some of them live in Luton,
04:22some of them live a lot further afield.
04:24We can't rule out that more people aren't going to come forward
04:27because these are people that have probably been waiting
04:30to tell the story to someone their whole life.
04:32But the action from CPS at the moment is
04:35whether or not it's in the public interest
04:36to continue with a second trial.
04:38You think the money and the resources
04:39and the time that's going to be going into this second trial,
04:42bearing in mind he's got his life sentence,
04:44so we're doing all of this.
04:46CPS may still turn around and say,
04:47no, we're not going to do it,
04:48but we carry on as normal with the new victims for now,
04:51as we would with any normal investigation.
04:54One call is from an ex-neighbor of Carson Grimes,
04:58reporting that large bones have been found in the garden
05:00next to the house where he drugged and abused many of his victims.
05:04I mean, these bricks are...
05:05So he was that side, this house here?
05:13This side.
05:14How do we think he went into this?
05:15So, from what we know,
05:17he did associate with the landlord of this property.
05:22So they were sort of in and out of each other's.
05:25And when the lady lived here, there was a gap in the fence.
05:28Right.
05:30It's obviously been...
05:30There's definitely a noticeable dip there,
05:32and the big dips are strange.
05:35So what happens is, when the body decomposes,
05:39it gets smaller and smaller,
05:41and so you then get a, like a, you can see a physical grave.
05:45Over the years, it was a tried-and-tested MO.
05:51He had been drugging these boys.
05:53How had he not caused one serious harm?
05:57That's rock or something, or some kind of...
06:04Rubble.
06:05Yeah.
06:06But that rubble could also be some kind of burial site.
06:11Yeah.
06:12If I was to bury a human corpse, I think that's what I would do.
06:16I wouldn't just put soil on the top,
06:17I think I'd put bricks and rubble.
06:19Because you don't want it to come to the surface, do you?
06:22I mean, that looks like a paving slab, doesn't it?
06:24That makes me think, what are they trying to hide, you know?
06:31What are we going to do, then?
06:32We are going to dig it. That's the plan.
06:36He's a classic Jimmy Savile.
06:38Everyone loved him, but he was abusing kids under everyone's nose.
06:44No-one would have suspected it.
06:46I imagine that there are hundreds of victims.
06:50While preparations are made to forensically examine the garden,
06:57D.I. Gilbert travels 450 miles to take a statement from a new victim
07:02who says he has information about Carson Grimes.
07:05It's not believable.
07:12My ears, when I heard his name and see him and that,
07:14so obviously this is all coming up after 34, 35 years.
07:21But the thing I noticed about him and I always will remember about him
07:25is the nails.
07:27Them long, overgrown nails have go down.
07:30And dirty.
07:33Even the squeaky tone he's got through his voice was the same.
07:37Oh, yeah, give her a big hug, Anarchus.
07:40Who?
07:41I don't think she'd lie.
07:42I don't care, no, I don't care if she likes it.
07:44Just give it to her.
07:45Oh, my God.
07:46I'm a saint, my wife.
07:48I know him.
07:49And she's out there, you know him.
07:51And I said, so I'm one of his victims.
07:53He's done similar things to me,
07:56whether he's all men are the same.
07:57I haven't been able to move on.
08:10This is just going to eat me away for the rest of my life.
08:15I want a phone.
08:16I want to give him my side, the story.
08:18I want, I want, excuse my name, I want this cunt dealt with.
08:21He's had such a bad thing in my life for 30 odd years and I want, I want justice.
08:32So these three will carry over from Operation Sorok into Operation Bainbury.
08:50Police want to ensure that all victims are given the opportunity to have their allegations
08:54heard in court.
08:55He was on the indictment for the first trial.
08:59He didn't turn up at court.
09:00The reason for that, he says, is because Carson got to him or someone got to him and potentially
09:06intimidated him.
09:07He laid me down and said, he did, just laid next to me from behind.
09:19And then he pushed his cocky his arm again and started, started like shouting me from behind.
09:29I know you'll remember him saying, if I said it to me, it'd hurt me, it'd kill me.
09:33You were arrested on suspicion of rape of a male child under 60.
09:42After the incident, you said, if you ever tell anyone, I'll kill you.
09:47What did you have in your hand at the time?
09:50How come in?
09:51A small black handgun.
09:55So I put to you that you were threatening him.
09:57How come in?
09:58We know you're in the army.
10:00Quite scary, someone being in the army.
10:01I wouldn't like to miss somebody being in the army.
10:03It's quite intimidating.
10:07Some victims openly talk about that they still are scared of him because of the threats that
10:14he made.
10:15They are very real threats.
10:17They've stayed with them for many, many years.
10:20This is where Carson is housed.
10:29It is a prison for convicted sex offenders.
10:35So it's all, all of them are housed under one roof.
10:40Sports facilities, a sports hall, racket sports, spinning classes, circuit classes, weights room.
10:47It's like a hotel.
10:51The fact that he appears to be making the most of the situation that he's in is frustrating.
11:00Living his best life.
11:02I wanted to ask about the contacts that Carson's had since he's been in HMP Rye Hill.
11:10It is our intention today to go out and speak to one other male.
11:19He was 17 years old when he was reported as a missing person.
11:25He was regularly associating and staying with Carson at that, around that time.
11:32So, in terms of the contact in prison, do we know if that's telephone contact or visit telephone?
11:41We really think carefully about how we're going to approach them because it has the potential
11:47to tear their world upside down.
11:51Those desires that Carson has, that grooming process, doesn't just stop because he's taken
11:57out of society.
11:58Where is it? Do you know? Have you seen it?
12:02I have no doubt that he will be continuing to create those opportunities within the prison
12:09establishment.
12:11We won't be disclosing the contact in prison because I don't want Carson to get wind of it.
12:26Hello.
12:26Are you OK?
12:28There's something to worry about.
12:32If there is stuff that has happened to you and you want to talk to us, then we're here.
12:46Let's get out of here.
12:51Oh, there it is.
12:52I guess he'll be right on the phone now.
12:56Yeah.
12:57Well, we've clearly hit a nerve, though.
12:59I know.
13:00With him going out and then...
13:01Crying.
13:02Yeah.
13:03He's almost storming out.
13:05Yeah.
13:07It's very difficult.
13:09It's very mixed up.
13:11Yeah.
13:11Yeah.
13:11I feel like he has been abused.
13:16He's got an awful lot of loyalties towards Carson.
13:23It's like, um...
13:24Stockholm.
13:25Stockholm syndrome.
13:27Where the abuser has completely brainwashed them into believing that they are good for them.
13:37And he sees him as some saviour, like, this guy helped me out when I was not doing well or...
13:44He's still brainwashing him from prison.
13:48100%.
13:49As an investigator, I feel frustrated that I'm not able to influence them in the same way that he is.
14:00He's such a powerful person.
14:03For some, it's too much.
14:06They will miss the opportunity to come forward.
14:09But it has to be right for them at that time.
14:14They wrestle with that every day of their lives.
14:19Am I just asking you to tell me your full name for a confectioner, Charles?
14:25Tell me more about meeting Carson.
14:28I believe I was...
14:30..between the ages of 14 and 16.
14:34I started getting into stealing car stereos.
14:37It was like there's his bus driver.
14:39Whatever he'd get, all fine.
14:43It was like he was Fagan.
14:45And we was Dodger and Oliver and all the rest.
14:48You know, he'd look after us with money and drugs.
14:53And didn't think anything on it.
14:55And he had his money container from the bus.
14:58I said, when we see all that money,
15:00all the other conductors counting their money out...
15:03I still remember the name of the garage where he was.
15:04There was Ash Road Garage in Cambridge Road.
15:08Just off of Broadway Market in Hackney.
15:10And is there anyone else with you?
15:13Me, Patrick.
15:16He had loads of kids taking him, stolen stuff.
15:19The previous investigation, the victims were focused on Luton.
15:27But Mike unlocked a whole different area
15:30that Carson was operating in at that time.
15:33Back in the 80s, we lived on Broadway Market.
15:41And just behind Broadway Market was our local bus garage.
15:45I got introduced to him and I thought,
15:48all right, he's got a need for me.
15:51I didn't know it was the need that he was going on in his head.
15:55You know, I didn't know about grooming and things like that.
15:57I just thought, oh, actually someone wants to be around me.
16:01You know, I felt needed.
16:04So that's why I kept on going to him,
16:07selling him stuff.
16:09Oh, pat on the back.
16:09Nice one, Mike.
16:11You've got that for me, thanks.
16:12And I felt, all right, I've made someone happy.
16:16I wanted to be seen.
16:18You know, I wanted to be loved, to be hugged.
16:21My mum and dad never told me that they loved me.
16:28You know, I didn't see a future for me then.
16:30I just saw the end of a crack pipe.
16:35The devil's drug took me.
16:36At a young age, I'm thinking, like,
16:38what has happened bad, so bad in my life
16:40that it took them a year?
16:42And then I used to think, yeah, I know why.
16:45The Crown Prosecution Service receives an update
16:53on the new victims.
16:56Victim W, he is originally from London
16:59and said that he met Carson Grimes,
17:02who was a bus driver in London at that time,
17:05and he has given us some other names.
17:08See, the London victims sound like
17:10they're the earliest in time.
17:11These victims are giving us the name
17:13of other potential witnesses.
17:17Do we then approach them?
17:18The difficulty you've got,
17:20and we've all got, therefore,
17:22if we're presenting a case,
17:23is if you're given names
17:25and you don't pursue those names,
17:28have you pursued all reasonable lines of inquiry?
17:31And that could become a problem.
17:33You are aware that potentially
17:36it's going to open up more victims.
17:39Where the case goes from here
17:41or whether it ever reaches
17:43Newton Crown Court again.
17:45I think we just need to be very careful
17:46that we're not causing any more difficulties
17:49for these victims
17:51by the spectre of grimes in life again.
17:57The detectives head to London
17:59with the new information gathered
18:00from Michael's statement.
18:01So, when did you become a bus driver?
18:081979.
18:10Oh, okay.
18:1079.
18:11Oh, wow.
18:12We were involved in an investigation
18:14with regard to a male
18:17who we believed was working
18:19from this garage on the buses,
18:23either as a bus driver
18:25or a bus conductor
18:26around 1987.
18:29His name is Carson Grimes.
18:33No.
18:33They may not come across me.
18:35No.
18:36Do you remember anybody
18:38that was working here
18:40at the garage at that time
18:41that had lots of young people
18:44come in to visit them at the garage?
18:46No, I can't recall it.
18:47Was there anywhere in this garage
18:48where the bus drivers
18:50would be counting out their money
18:52from the day?
18:53Like, with their float?
18:55Would that be?
18:56Yeah, that's after.
18:57That stopped before I came here.
19:00Ah, that had already stopped?
19:02Yes, it had already stopped.
19:03Oh, okay.
19:07The witnesses,
19:09the people that Mike said he was with
19:11were really important to us.
19:13Every single one of those people
19:15we have to try and trace.
19:17OK, good news.
19:20We've got an address
19:21for Patrick.
19:24We'll just be making
19:25a cold call approach on them,
19:28which is quite sensitive
19:30because of the fact
19:32that they've not approached us,
19:33so they won't have any indication
19:35that we're coming today.
19:38Is this definitely Bourne House?
19:46Yeah, it is.
19:53It's him.
19:56Tell me everything
19:57that you can about Carson.
20:00I was kids,
20:01we were doing naughty things
20:02and stealing car radio.
20:04We used to go to this
20:05buscar radio to sell them.
20:10And then one day he said,
20:12I just want to come to our place,
20:14which was in Luton.
20:16We got there
20:17and he'd give us a drink
20:18and just basically
20:20have a party kind of thing.
20:23Nothing happened for a few times
20:25because it seemed very trusting
20:27at first.
20:29No one ever thought,
20:30and I'm a very street smart kid
20:32back then.
20:33You was?
20:34Yeah, I'm very street smart.
20:36You don't think nothing of it.
20:41I think he's sexy.
20:42I was one of my friends.
20:44I could tell you
20:44who was there.
20:45OK.
20:47I'm just going to put
20:55these young people
20:57on our board.
20:59I know they might not
21:00turn out to be anything,
21:02but let's just
21:03put them on there.
21:09Wherever Carson
21:10had roots,
21:12that opened up
21:13avenues or pockets,
21:15opportunities
21:16for him to befriend
21:18and groom young people.
21:23On PNC,
21:24it says that he's been
21:25recalled to prison,
21:26so he potentially
21:28could be in prison still.
21:29And so there's always
21:30a concern
21:31in all of those areas
21:32that he has spent time
21:34that there will be
21:36victims out there.
21:38So how many addresses
21:39have we got?
21:40Four.
21:41We're looking for
21:42the occupants
21:43of number one.
21:45One?
21:46We're from
21:46Bedfordshire Police.
21:50These two boys
21:51took him
21:52to Carson's house
21:53because my son
21:54was only 14
21:55at the time.
21:56I think there's
21:57more boys
21:58out there.
22:05Carson Grimes
22:06was jailed for life
22:07for abusing
22:08vulnerable children
22:09over two decades.
22:10Now,
22:11a new victim
22:11says Grimes
22:12abused him
22:13in 1988
22:13when he was
22:14just 13 years old.
22:17When he reported
22:18the offence,
22:19no action
22:20was taken.
22:20Every victim's
22:23statement
22:23was like
22:24hearing my own voice.
22:26It's almost like
22:27the police
22:28and social services
22:30enabled it to happen.
22:32I know
22:33that there's
22:33a lot more people
22:35who haven't
22:36come forward
22:37who've been
22:37affected by that man.
22:38This victim,
22:46he got quite
22:47emotional
22:48when the TV
22:49programme went
22:50out and started
22:51ringing up
22:51Three Counties Radio.
22:52He is mentally
22:54unstable at the
22:55moment.
22:57He was
22:58looked after
22:58child
22:59and he reported
23:00at the time
23:01that Carson
23:02had abused him
23:03and he said
23:03that he did
23:04a two-day
23:04statement.
23:05I've tracked
23:05through TransSearch
23:06and we don't
23:07have that
23:07report anywhere.
23:12Unable to locate
23:13the original
23:14report of rape
23:15he made as a
23:1513-year-old,
23:17the victim
23:17is asked to
23:18come in
23:18in order to
23:19repeat the
23:20account he
23:20first gave
23:2133 years
23:22previously.
23:25What made
23:26you come
23:26forward this
23:26time?
23:27Pure rage
23:28that I'd
23:29sat at home
23:3133 years
23:32later and
23:33this bastard
23:34is on my
23:34telly and
23:35I sit there
23:36thinking I
23:36made these
23:37statements that
23:38amount of
23:38time ago.
23:40Jesus' name
23:41must have
23:41been known
23:42and when
23:43you're sitting
23:43there watching
23:44the cases
23:45after me,
23:46imagine how
23:47that feels.
23:49What happened
23:49and who did
23:50you tell?
23:52Well, the
23:52first people I
23:53told was when
23:54I was in the
23:55children's home
23:55and then
23:56an officer
23:57come and
23:57took a
23:58statement.
23:58Was there
23:59anyone else
23:59that you
23:59told after
24:00that?
24:00No, I
24:01told not to
24:02ever talk
24:02about it.
24:04Who told
24:04you not
24:05to talk
24:05about it?
24:06Social
24:06workers,
24:07key workers.
24:09So how
24:09old were
24:10you when
24:10this happened?
24:11I was 13.
24:17When you're
24:18a 13-year-old
24:19boy and
24:19you're in
24:19a children's
24:20home saying
24:20what's going
24:21on and
24:22there's no
24:22action,
24:23it's fucking
24:23embarrassing.
24:25I had to go
24:25to the police
24:26for help
24:26I never
24:27had in
24:27my life
24:28for a good
24:29reason
24:29because
24:31you're not
24:32believed.
24:33Oh no!
24:36I ain't
24:37lived a
24:38conventional
24:38lifestyle.
24:40I've been
24:40skirting around
24:41the fringes of
24:42society.
24:44Doing events
24:46and protests
24:47and alternative
24:49stuff.
24:51It's not
24:52that I'm a
24:52criminal or
24:53anything but
24:54what I was
24:55doing was
24:56frowned upon
24:56by the police
24:57and all
24:58that but
24:58I just
25:00see it as
25:01fighting the
25:01establishment
25:02really.
25:04I don't like
25:04the authorities
25:05and I'd
25:06rather not
25:06engage but
25:07I've had to
25:08engage to
25:09do the
25:09right thing
25:09innit.
25:11Otherwise
25:12no one's
25:12held accountable.
25:14It ain't even
25:14about him
25:15getting the
25:15sentences
25:16about what
25:16the police
25:17and social
25:18services
25:18have to
25:19say about
25:19how did
25:21they know
25:21for 30
25:22years
25:22that the
25:24same name
25:25is coming
25:25up in
25:25one's
25:26hand
25:26and then
25:28I get
25:28annoyed.
25:30DI Gilbert
25:31recovers the
25:3213-year-old
25:33victim's
25:33social services
25:34file which
25:35corroborates
25:36what he has
25:36told them.
25:37In the
25:38case of
25:39victim P
25:40that was a
25:42police decision
25:43to no
25:43further action.
25:45It shocks
25:46me to the
25:47core and it
25:47saddens me
25:48and it's
25:48upsetting.
25:50I was in
25:50the police
25:51when these
25:51young people
25:52were coming
25:53forward and
25:53they were
25:54just
25:55labelled
25:55as
25:56runaways,
25:57tearaways,
25:58nuisance kids
25:59often from
26:00broken homes,
26:01often in
26:02children's
26:02homes,
26:03dabbling on
26:04the very
26:04edges of
26:05petty crime
26:06and drugs
26:07and they
26:08were not
26:09taken
26:10seriously.
26:11We've got
26:12to build
26:12trust with
26:13him and
26:14we've got
26:14to rebuild
26:15those
26:16relationships
26:16that aren't
26:18there now.
26:18D.I.
26:22Gilbert
26:22contacts the
26:23victim to
26:24talk through
26:25his testimony.
26:26I originally
26:27reported the
26:27abuse in
26:281988 to the
26:29authorities.
26:31The investigation
26:31was filed
26:32without further
26:33action.
26:34After this,
26:35I lost all
26:35confidence and
26:36self-esteem.
26:38I felt like
26:39all my hopes
26:40and dreams for
26:41the future
26:41had been
26:42destroyed.
26:42My first
26:43intimacy was
26:44Carson drugging
26:45and raping
26:46me.
26:47I tried
26:48for years
26:48to be a
26:49success.
26:50But my
26:50success is
26:51different to
26:51others.
26:53Surviving one
26:54more day is
26:55my success
26:55now.
27:03You okay?
27:04Yeah.
27:05Sorry.
27:07Don't be
27:08sorry.
27:09Since
27:10given the
27:10original statements
27:11when you're
27:1213 and
27:12then doing
27:13it all
27:13again,
27:14it's been
27:1537 years.
27:17Don't get
27:17a day off.
27:19That's all
27:19you know.
27:21The absolute
27:22mistrust of
27:22anyone in
27:23authority.
27:25I don't
27:25think he
27:25can pit
27:26right 30
27:27years of
27:27inaction.
27:29If he'd
27:30have been
27:31believed
27:32when he
27:34first came
27:34forward,
27:36he could
27:36have put a
27:36stop to it
27:37back then.
27:38He feels
27:38angry.
27:40And I get
27:41that.
27:41I think I
27:42would too.
27:43It's really
27:44hard actually.
27:45It is really
27:46hard to think
27:47about.
27:53What can you
27:54tell me about
27:54the children's
27:55home?
27:56How come?
27:56He would go
27:57missing from
27:57the children's
27:58home and he
27:58would be picked
27:59up by police
28:00at your house.
28:01Tell me about
28:02that.
28:02How come?
28:03If he
28:04absconded,
28:04which was
28:05regular, so if
28:06he went missing
28:06from the care
28:07home, the police
28:08would know
28:08to go and
28:08knock at
28:09your house.
28:10Can you tell
28:10me about
28:10that?
28:11No comment.
28:12These are
28:12really incredibly
28:13vulnerable
28:13children that
28:15would have
28:15been easy to
28:16target at that
28:17point in their
28:17life.
28:18And you took
28:19advantage of
28:19those vulnerabilities.
28:21You waited
28:22until you'd built
28:23their trust and
28:24you performed
28:25sexual acts
28:25against them
28:26without that
28:26consent.
28:27No comment.
28:29They looked
28:30up to you.
28:31Saw you as a
28:32father figure.
28:32That's quite
28:33amazing.
28:34These kids that
28:35are tear-aways
28:35looking at
28:36you as a
28:37father figure.
28:37Quiet.
28:41He appears
28:42on the surface
28:43to be a
28:45family man.
28:45He's been
28:46in a marriage.
28:47He's got
28:47children.
28:49The general
28:49community saw
28:50that he was a
28:51good guy.
28:52He was helping
28:52people out.
28:53He was providing
28:54a safe place.
28:56He was helping
28:57young people to
28:58find their way
28:59in life.
28:59He was
29:00supporting them.
29:02He took them
29:03under his wing.
29:04He pretended
29:05to be something
29:06to them that
29:08he absolutely
29:08wasn't.
29:11Obviously
29:11being groomed.
29:13I helped
29:13him do
29:14something to
29:15that with
29:16the car
29:16where I had
29:17the float
29:17or something
29:18because I knew
29:18about cars
29:19and stuff.
29:21And I
29:22thought,
29:22oh yeah,
29:22we'd get on.
29:24That's why
29:24I went there.
29:26I remember
29:26it was a
29:27metallic
29:28brand,
29:29Daimler
29:29Sovereign
29:30double six,
29:31so it was a
29:32V12.
29:32he had
29:35a gold
29:35old-style
29:38Jaguar
29:38or a Daimler
29:39but it was
29:40that style,
29:40the old ones.
29:43And is there
29:44anything distinctive
29:45that you can tell
29:46me about that car?
29:47Maybe it had
29:48cream seeds.
29:51He said he lived
29:52in Luben.
29:54He didn't mind
29:55going there.
29:56He said he'd
29:56bring us back.
29:57We went to his
29:59house.
30:00It was a
30:00shithole of a
30:01house,
30:01very dark,
30:03crappy pine
30:04paneling all
30:04in the kitchen
30:05and that.
30:06And we sat
30:07downstairs,
30:08had a couple
30:09of joints,
30:09made me a drink.
30:12But I felt
30:12absolutely bollocks
30:14from the drink.
30:16I passed out
30:17and then I
30:18come round
30:19upstairs with
30:20him penetrating
30:20me,
30:21holding me down.
30:22I could smell
30:24his breath,
30:25I could feel
30:26his breath on
30:26me.
30:27He had this
30:28big Jerry Kell
30:29hairdo and I
30:31could feel that
30:31brushing off my
30:32shoulder.
30:33I could feel
30:34his fucking
30:34stubbly,
30:35spotty chin
30:36on the back
30:37of my neck.
30:39He used to
30:39wear a golden
30:40medallion so you
30:41could see his
30:42stupid necklace.
30:43I think I tried
30:44screaming a few
30:45times but he
30:46told me to shut
30:47up.
30:48I felt dirty,
30:49I felt ashamed.
30:50Why is another
30:51man doing this
30:51for me?
30:58He carried me
30:59into his
31:00bedroom and I
31:03realised that
31:03this is wrong
31:04so I told him
31:06no, no.
31:07I was kissing
31:08my neck and I
31:10was telling him
31:10no, I'm pushing
31:11him away.
31:14I appreciate
31:15you being honest
31:16and open.
31:17Don't be afraid.
31:19Tell me
31:19everything.
31:21I was sexually
31:22abused by him.
31:25And what age
31:25was that?
31:26Thirteen.
31:27Why did you not
31:29tell anyone else?
31:30Because that's
31:32how it is back
31:32then days.
31:33It's shameful.
31:37These type of
31:38investigations are
31:39not for everyone.
31:40They're not for all
31:41police officers.
31:42Being exposed to
31:44secondary trauma,
31:45listening to those
31:46ABEs, talking to
31:48those individuals,
31:49hearing their stories,
31:50it hits a nerve.
31:53And I think it's the
31:55amount of years that
31:56it's affected these
31:58victims and how they've
32:00struggled all
32:01throughout their life
32:03that is really
32:05difficult to process.
32:07of being clean
32:11for 18 years.
32:13I don't think I
32:13would have got on
32:14the crack
32:14if that didn't
32:17happen to me.
32:18They made me
32:19forget what
32:20happened.
32:21The only way I could
32:22was doing that.
32:26All right.
32:29You all right?
32:30There are still
32:34days where he has
32:36a really bad day
32:37and it was as if
32:39he reverted back
32:40to being 15
32:41and I saw the heart.
32:46Sorry.
32:52It's just a constant
32:54battle of trying
32:55to stay all right.
32:57My success is,
32:58well, I'm still here,
32:59isn't I?
33:00There's been a lot
33:01of times I could
33:02have just said,
33:02fuck it, I'm gone.
33:05No one said that
33:06life was easy,
33:07but it shouldn't be
33:08this fucking hard
33:09either.
33:11I used to hate
33:12myself so much.
33:15My self-harm was
33:16I put myself in
33:17prison to isolate
33:18away from everything.
33:20It was one of them
33:21things you just
33:21didn't talk about.
33:22You didn't want
33:23no one knowing
33:24that you'd been
33:24touched.
33:27But it's like
33:27we all knew.
33:29It's like we all
33:30knew, but we never
33:31spoke.
33:33Because we're
33:34lads, innit?
33:37Now the cap is
33:38out of the bag, innit?
33:39And I don't know
33:41how I call.
33:52Five months after
33:53revealing he was
33:53abused by Carson
33:54Grimes, Patrick is
33:56arrested and charged
33:58for burglary.
33:58It was like
34:02something eating
34:03inside of me
34:04because I suppressed
34:06it for so long
34:06and then once
34:08that call come
34:08it's like it was
34:09eating away at me,
34:10eating away at me,
34:11eating away.
34:12And I just went
34:13off the rails.
34:15I just went out
34:15and committed crime,
34:16started using drugs
34:17again because I felt
34:20ashamed of some
34:21paedophile doing
34:22things to me,
34:24ruining my life.
34:25I've let this
34:28fucker win again
34:29and again and
34:30again.
34:33Paddy was not
34:34one of those
34:35that had come
34:35forward.
34:36He was not
34:37expecting the police
34:39to bring up things
34:40that had happened
34:41to him many,
34:42many, many years
34:43ago that he may
34:45well have placed
34:45in a box in his
34:47head somewhere
34:48and didn't want
34:49opened.
34:50There's absolutely
34:51no doubt that
34:53the impact of
34:54the investigation
34:55on him has
34:56caused him to
34:57spiral.
34:59It's re-traumatizing
35:00people.
35:02They're reliving it
35:03in their head
35:03in front of you
35:04and then they go
35:06away and have to
35:07deal with those
35:08thoughts again.
35:11We're likely to
35:13cause some degree
35:15of harm.
35:18The final list
35:21of victims
35:22is presented
35:22to the Crown
35:23Prosecution Service.
35:25They will decide
35:26whether to charge
35:27convicted paedophile
35:28Carson Grimes
35:29with the new
35:30offences.
35:31Victim R
35:32wishes to report
35:33rapes by Carson
35:35Grimes in between
35:36the ages of 13
35:38to 15 years.
35:39Victim S
35:40wants to report
35:42a rape that
35:43happened to him
35:44when he was
35:45under 16 years old.
35:46Victim U
35:48states that he
35:49was sexually
35:50assaulted by
35:50Carson Grimes
35:51when he was
35:53under 13.
35:54He was being
35:54sick and being
35:55raped by Carson.
35:57Victim W
35:58reported sexual
36:00assault and
36:01grooming offences
36:02when he was
36:03aged about
36:0414 years.
36:05Victim X
36:05broke down
36:06and first
36:07disclosed,
36:08having never
36:09disclosed to
36:10anyone.
36:10gone.
36:13There's
36:14certainly
36:14at face
36:15value
36:15a pretty
36:16compelling
36:17public
36:18interest
36:19in this
36:19type of
36:19prosecution.
36:23DI Gilbert
36:24travels to
36:25Rye Hill
36:25Prison
36:26to charge
36:27Carson
36:27Grimes
36:28in person.
36:29He will
36:29face
36:30accusations
36:30of 41
36:31sexual
36:32offences
36:32against
36:3311 new
36:34victims
36:35and two
36:35of the
36:36victims
36:36from the
36:36previous
36:37case.
36:37He was
36:40very
36:41blasé,
36:42very
36:42comfortable
36:43in his
36:44surroundings
36:44and actually
36:46finished the
36:46meeting quite
36:47early.
36:48Then he got
36:48up and
36:49walked out and
36:49said he had
36:50to be
36:50somewhere else.
36:51And he's
36:51in prison.
36:52I know.
36:53So where
36:53was he
36:53going?
36:54Well,
36:54his job,
36:55his gym,
36:56his little...
36:58He doesn't
36:58want to face
36:59up to this.
36:59No,
37:00no.
37:00He doesn't
37:01want to deal
37:01with it at
37:02all.
37:02He just
37:02wants it
37:02to go
37:03away.
37:03Yeah.
37:06There was
37:07never any
37:08real emotion
37:10shown.
37:11But that's
37:12power.
37:13That's
37:13power and
37:14control.
37:16I'm always
37:16open to
37:17rehabilitation,
37:18you know,
37:19and for
37:19offenders to
37:21own and
37:22acknowledge
37:22the crimes
37:24that they've
37:25committed.
37:26But that's
37:27not an
37:27option in
37:28this case.
37:29Carson's
37:30offending
37:30has gone
37:31on for
37:32too many
37:32years.
37:33He's
37:33managed to
37:34manipulate
37:35the systems
37:36and been
37:37allowed
37:37allowed
37:37to get
37:37away
37:38with
37:38it.
37:40I have
37:40absolutely
37:41no doubt
37:41that he
37:41won't be
37:42engaging
37:42in any
37:43of those
37:43programmes
37:44around
37:44rehabilitation
37:45or
37:46acknowledging
37:47any of
37:48the abuse
37:49that he's
37:49committed
37:50over the
37:50years.
37:51He's a
37:52man that
37:53will never
37:54do that.
37:55so he
38:02spoke in
38:03detail about
38:04an incident
38:05years after
38:06he was
38:07sexually abused
38:07by you
38:08where you
38:09kidnapped him,
38:11tied him to
38:11a tree,
38:12chained him
38:13up with
38:13wire cables
38:14and chains
38:15and beat
38:16him until
38:18he was
38:18black and
38:18blue and
38:19stabbed him.
38:20Tell me
38:21about that.
38:22No comment.
38:27After
38:28receiving the
38:29report of
38:29bones in
38:30a neighbour's
38:31garden,
38:32the full
38:32excavation is
38:33underway.
38:34What drug
38:37was he
38:37using?
38:38Sleep
38:39tablets.
38:46Every
38:47single
38:47one of
38:48the
38:49victims
38:49said they
38:50consumed
38:51pre-made
38:51drinks
38:52that you
38:53made.
38:54He said
38:55I started
38:55drinking it,
38:56I was about
38:56halfway down
38:57when I
38:58noticed a
38:58white powder
38:59in the
38:59bottom of
39:00it.
39:01The
39:02drink
39:02had something
39:03in it,
39:04although
39:04they
39:05couldn't
39:05say
39:05what,
39:06that they
39:06had
39:06really
39:07bad
39:07effects
39:08of
39:08drink
39:08similar
39:08to
39:09rohypnol,
39:10similar
39:10to
39:11diazepam,
39:12diazepam found
39:13previously at your
39:13house.
39:14I don't fucking
39:15take drugs,
39:15never have.
39:16OK.
39:17I'm not saying
39:17you're taking drugs.
39:18Never have,
39:19never touched
39:19them.
39:21I'm not saying
39:21you're taking drugs,
39:22I'm saying you were
39:23giving drugs to
39:23young boys.
39:24What did I just
39:25tell you?
39:26OK.
39:26I've never touched
39:27drugs.
39:27You've never
39:28touched drugs?
39:28No.
39:29OK.
39:30Right.
39:33On a fish,
39:41we haven't got
39:42anything the same
39:43as a grave anyway.
39:44It looks like a
39:45day.
39:46We've not bumped
39:47into human bits.
39:48No.
39:50We explored it
39:52as far as we could,
39:53so I have to let it be.
39:56We didn't find human bones
39:58this time.
40:00There were always
40:01parameters and we
40:03took it as far as we
40:04could.
40:11Police receive a
40:12handwritten letter
40:13from Rye Hill Prison.
40:16I, Carson Grimes,
40:18have instructed my
40:19legal team to offer
40:20pleas of guilty to
40:22some counts and
40:23want to remain at
40:26Rye Hill and just
40:27get on with my
40:28time.
40:29Now he's paying
40:30his power games and
40:31he's saying, I'm
40:33still a little bit in
40:34control, even though
40:36I'm going to plead
40:36guilty.
40:37I'll have this, but I
40:39won't have that.
40:40I'm going to accept
40:41this, but not that.
40:42I don't think he wants
40:43to move prisons.
40:45The setup that he's
40:46got, by all accounts,
40:47is to his favour,
40:50isn't it?
40:50Yeah.
40:53He has offered to
40:56plead guilty to
40:58less than half of the
40:59charges that he faces.
41:01He's a man of
41:02intelligence, do you
41:03agree?
41:03Without a shadow of
41:04intelligence.
41:04Yes.
41:04He's at Rye Hill at the
41:05moment.
41:06Yes.
41:06Well, I went there to
41:07see him and he's got it
41:09good.
41:09Yeah, of course.
41:10He's, you know, for all
41:12intents and purposes,
41:13sitting pretty.
41:14You'll not want to move
41:15back to bed.
41:16Well, no.
41:17It's a bit of game
41:19playing, to be honest.
41:20He is trying to elicit
41:23from us the minimum
41:24position.
41:26I'm sure this is your
41:27experience.
41:28Individuals such as him
41:29derive pleasure from the
41:31exercise of trying to
41:32control the narrative.
41:35It's almost like he's still
41:37winning, isn't it?
41:38It's almost like that he's
41:40still got the upper hand.
41:41He's still controlling the
41:44narrative here.
41:46And that's very frustrating.
41:52DI Gilbert informs the
41:54victims that Carson Grimes is
41:56only willing to plead guilty
41:57to some of the lesser
41:59charges he faces.
42:03Hello?
42:04Hi, it's Claire.
42:06Hiya, how are you there?
42:07Yeah, not too bad.
42:08I totally get that everything
42:10that's going on at the
42:12moment is really triggering
42:14for you.
42:15I know how slippery he is,
42:17so, you know.
42:19And you know the games
42:20he's been playing, so.
42:22It's completely
42:22understandable trying to
42:24have trust and faith in
42:25the system, particularly
42:27in your case with the
42:29previous reporting and not
42:31having the records there.
42:32So, I do understand that.
42:35He wants justice.
42:37That's what he wants.
42:38He wants his day in court.
42:39He wants to face him, and
42:41he wants him to take
42:42responsibility for what he
42:44did to him.
42:48I felt like, yeah, finally,
42:50there's going to be
42:50judgment day.
42:54I felt, how dare you,
42:56after all this time, you know,
42:58you knew what you've done,
43:00countless people, regardless
43:02what happened to me, and you're
43:04still defiant about, no, going
43:10not guilty.
43:1023rd of May, half past ten,
43:27sentencing.
43:28That's not long.
43:29That isn't long.
43:30After the prosecution rejects his
43:32pleas and insists that he should
43:34admit his crimes, Carson Grimes
43:36pleads guilty to a further three
43:38charges.
43:38It wasn't acceptable to us that he
43:41was just going to plead to the
43:43lesser offense of indecent assault,
43:45so now we've got the rape.
43:48He's pleaded to most serious.
43:50It's really good.
43:51Really good.
43:52The charges are always a balance.
43:57Although we weren't able to secure
44:01convictions on all the charges,
44:04what we were able to secure is
44:06convictions on the most serious
44:08offense for each victim.
44:12Defense made an application for him
44:15to appear via video link for
44:17sentencing.
44:18However, I'm pleased to say that Judge
44:21Hunter was having absolutely none of it.
44:24She said it was her public duty for him
44:27to appear in person.
44:29By attending the sentencing in person,
44:32he then goes into the prison dispersal
44:35system and potentially loses his spot
44:40at HMP Ryehill.
44:41Oh.
44:42And are the victims going?
44:44Yes, I sort of explained that Carson
44:48will be there in person, so he will
44:50hear the impact of the crime.
44:53They want to see him in person,
44:55they want to look him in the eye,
44:56they want to hold him accountable.
44:59I mean, when you hear these stories of all
45:00these people, like one man's life,
45:01what he's done.
45:02Yeah.
45:04All the way through the investigation,
45:07we are their voice.
45:08But when it actually comes to sentencing,
45:12that's about them, that's their opportunity.
45:14They are able to face him in court
45:17and they are able to have their voices heard.
45:21That's what it's about, for him to hear
45:23the impact that this has had on them.
45:28But there will be people that might not be able
45:31to show that strength.
45:34It's re-traumatising to look him in the eye.
45:38The last couple of nights,
45:41I go to bed and my head's just racing,
45:44so I get up and down, up and down.
45:46Yeah.
45:47I got myself out.
45:48I never thought this would happen.
45:51It's going to take a lot for him
45:54to go to court and give his evidence.
45:57That takes a lot of strength as well.
45:59And I'm sure that there's going to be
46:01a lot of emotion wrapped around it.
46:05I'm all over the shop.
46:06We'll see on the day.
46:10Maybe I can be in the room with him.
46:11Maybe I can't.
46:13Hopefully I will be.
46:14But would anyone really want to see
46:17someone who raped you as a kid?
46:18I just want him to know
46:35that he's not a part of my life anymore.
46:39He's not at the back of my mind.
46:41I don't have to hide him, you know.
46:43I'm going to look him in the eye, yeah.
46:46Just to let him know
46:47that he ain't got away with it.
46:52I'm a bit nervous
46:53because obviously
46:54it is 38 years
46:57since I've seen this predator.
46:59Obviously, you'll never forget
47:00what's happened to you.
47:02It's always going to be there.
47:04But for me,
47:05it's to stop blaming myself, really.
47:08I hid for 38 years.
47:11But I'm not doing it, I'm not.
47:15Where are you at this morning?
47:16Do you want to head down there?
47:17I think I need to stay away.
47:19Hmm.
47:21You have to do what's right for you.
47:22You know we'll support you either way.
47:24All of those 37 years of emotion
47:27is going to spill over.
47:28Yeah.
47:29But once you connect with those emotions,
47:31they're a bit strong, aren't they?
47:36The courageous victims
47:37have lived with this
47:38over 30 years.
47:39It has taken far too long.
47:42Carson Grimes is
47:43one of the worst offenders
47:45that we've seen.
47:47Children,
47:48that when they report abuse,
47:51should be believed.
47:53And Bedfordshire Police are committed
47:54to ensure that that is the case.
47:56I've hid in the shadows
48:17for a long time.
48:18But today,
48:19look you in your eye,
48:21see if you know who I am.
48:23You stole my life.
48:24Today,
48:25I've been taking it back.
48:28It's been 37 years.
48:30It can't hurt me anymore.
48:35You both sounded really powerful
48:37in there today.
48:38I took my power back today.
48:40You did.
48:41And that's all that matters to me.
48:43The composure
48:44that you all showed
48:46was incredible.
48:48You know,
48:48because it was very intense.
48:50So I didn't want him to think,
48:52all right,
48:53he's still getting to us,
48:54you know what I mean?
48:55I'm not fixed,
48:56but I'm a lot better.
48:58You never forget,
48:59it's time to move on.
49:00He's had enough of our lives.
49:02End of an era.
49:03Yeah, it is.
49:04How are you doing?
49:10I'm all right.
49:12Look, sorry I didn't come,
49:13but you know what?
49:14Jews ain't worth the squeeze,
49:16as they say.
49:17No,
49:18you don't need to apologise.
49:19It's what's right for you.
49:21They said that,
49:22in open court,
49:24that,
49:24you know,
49:24your account was not taken seriously,
49:27that it had fallen through the cracks,
49:29and that there were missed opportunities.
49:30That's on public record,
49:32isn't it?
49:33Yes,
49:33it is.
49:37Sorry.
49:40I've never seen
49:42a human police officer.
49:45Well, you have now.
49:46I know I have,
49:46and I appreciate it.
49:50Justice is part of the recovery process.
49:53It can't always be achieved for everyone,
49:56but it is a big part
49:57of being able to move forward.
50:00I feel frustrated
50:01that we couldn't reach
50:03all of the victims,
50:05but I have to be respectful.
50:07Some of them
50:08are not ready to talk.
50:10You hope
50:11that they can move forward
50:13and recover.
50:14That's what the end goal is.
50:17It's about their recovery
50:18after this.
50:20It's about that line in the sand.
50:22They've been heard.
50:23They've been believed.
50:24He's been convicted.
50:26And all I want then
50:28is for them
50:29to move forward
50:30with their lives
50:32in the best way
50:32that they can.
50:33is for them.
50:43They've been possibile
50:44for Wild andieren
50:45to have heard
50:47and be both
50:48in the best way
50:49or in the best way
50:49of the field
50:50in the good
50:51and the best way
50:51of the challenge
50:52and the worst way
50:52of theuring
50:52of the death
50:53behind.
50:54They've been grateful
50:55and they've now
50:56in theå…‰
50:57and here
50:57in the worst way
50:57and in the truth
50:58and theimbus
50:59and the salted