- 13 hours ago
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TVTranscript
00:00:15Hello there.
00:00:17Good evening, everybody.
00:00:18You're all very welcome to the show.
00:00:19And I hope you enjoy what happens here over the next hour or so.
00:00:24To find out who our first guest is, let me hand you over to our MC for the evening, the beautiful
00:00:29Fred Cook.
00:00:31Thank you so much, Tommy.
00:00:33Well, our...
00:00:34Our next guest is Mr. Paul Brady.
00:00:44All right, fella.
00:00:46How are you?
00:00:47Welcome.
00:00:49I was thinking about you recently, actually.
00:00:52Uh-huh.
00:00:52I live the far side of Salt Hill, so I'm driving.
00:00:58Right.
00:00:58I think there's a gig advertised in Leisure Land and stuff like that.
00:01:02But also...
00:01:02I was thinking about you when I went to see Bob Dylan.
00:01:05Okay.
00:01:06And he sang The Lakes of Pontchartrain.
00:01:07So you were at the Killarney gig, were you?
00:01:10Yeah, yeah.
00:01:11Oh, wow.
00:01:12Because I went to the Dublin gig, but he didn't sing it there.
00:01:16Yeah.
00:01:16Yeah.
00:01:16Yeah.
00:01:17What does stuff like that...
00:01:19How does that land with you, like, to hear...
00:01:22that he did Pontchartrain?
00:01:24Oh, he's just great.
00:01:25You know, I mean, anybody...
00:01:27who makes music likes to know it's getting around, you know, and...
00:01:32Yeah.
00:01:32Yeah.
00:01:32I mean, he kind of heard me back in the 70s.
00:01:37Um...
00:01:37Arthur McBride, which he recorded a version of himself.
00:01:41That's right, yeah.
00:01:41Yeah.
00:01:41Yeah.
00:01:42Yeah.
00:01:42Because I remember hearing his version of it...
00:01:45Yeah.
00:01:46And then going back to your version of it...
00:01:47I wonder what's the...
00:01:49Uh...
00:01:50Is that where he had heard it first, you know?
00:01:52I wonder what's the...
00:01:52Oh, well, it is, yeah, because I changed a couple of words in my version of it, and he...
00:01:57repeated them, so I knew it was my version.
00:01:59Could you give me a blast of it now?
00:02:01Would that be...
00:02:01Is that a very sudden...
00:02:02request?
00:02:03Well, not unless I retune the guitar, which would probably take about three or four minutes.
00:02:07Oh, really?
00:02:08I do it in a funny kind of tuning.
00:02:12I mean, that's...
00:02:12My hallmark, in a way, I...
00:02:15Uh...
00:02:16That's why there's so many guitars on the...
00:02:17stage when I'm alone.
00:02:18Yeah.
00:02:19Because they're all tuned differently.
00:02:20And to save time, I don't, you know...
00:02:22So...
00:02:23But...
00:02:24Uh...
00:02:25Not with this tuning.
00:02:26Okay.
00:02:27So...
00:02:27With your...
00:02:28I'd say the album that would have to come into my head now is...
00:02:31hard to...
00:02:32Right.
00:02:33And the way that the song's there for...
00:02:37the most part, if I'm remembering this rightly now, don't obey a...
00:02:42strict...
00:02:43metronomical...
00:02:44thing in terms of the lyrics.
00:02:47Right.
00:02:48Would I be right in saying that the...
00:02:49the...
00:02:50the...
00:02:51the...
00:02:52the...
00:02:53the fella in London?
00:02:54Uh...
00:02:55Oh, nothing but the same old story?
00:02:56Yes.
00:02:57Yeah.
00:02:58So there's a...
00:02:59That kind of...
00:03:00Uh...
00:03:01There's a flow...
00:03:02to the...
00:03:03They're not kind of...
00:03:04The lyrics in that aren't...
00:03:05Yeah.
00:03:06Trapped, if that's the right word.
00:03:07The way Leonard Cohen's would be.
00:03:08He keeps to the same amount of syllables and...
00:03:10Yeah.
00:03:11So that...
00:03:12Attraction to...
00:03:13Well, I've always...
00:03:14A difference.
00:03:15I've always seen a lyric as a conversation.
00:03:17Uh...
00:03:18And I've tried to deliver it conversationally as if you're...
00:03:22speaking rather than as if you're keeping within the tight meter.
00:03:25Yeah.
00:03:26And...
00:03:27Uh...
00:03:27I suppose I...
00:03:28You know, I...
00:03:29I...
00:03:30Got that when I was listening to my father who...
00:03:32Who was...
00:03:33A school teacher but an amateur...
00:03:35A very talented amateur actor and he...
00:03:37Used to do one man shows all the time.
00:03:39In Bundorn and places like that.
00:03:41When I was...
00:03:42I was a kid, you know.
00:03:43And I was totally taken by his delivery and it was...
00:03:47It was conversational all the time.
00:03:49And...
00:03:50Uh...
00:03:51I mean...
00:03:52Uh...
00:03:53I think that makes a song more interesting.
00:03:54Uh...
00:03:55When you...
00:03:56When you...
00:03:57When the listener feeds...
00:03:57It feels you're actually talking to them.
00:03:58Yeah.
00:03:59And it's the...
00:04:00Is the tuning part of that as well.
00:04:02In terms of...
00:04:03I'm...
00:04:04I'm not...
00:04:05My guitar is going to sound slightly different to other guitars.
00:04:07And...
00:04:08My...
00:04:09Lyrics.
00:04:10Whatever about the words.
00:04:11But...
00:04:12The...
00:04:13The shape of the song is going to be slightly different as well.
00:04:15I don't really think there's much connection between...
00:04:17The tuning and the lyrics.
00:04:18It's just what happens.
00:04:19You know.
00:04:20I mean...
00:04:21I mean...
00:04:22Arthur...
00:04:22Bright is one tuning.
00:04:23The Lakes of Pontchartrain is another tuning.
00:04:25And...
00:04:26Uh...
00:04:27That's just the way I've always worked.
00:04:30It's contrary I suppose.
00:04:31But...
00:04:32I think so.
00:04:33I think...
00:04:34I think...
00:04:35But it...
00:04:36It's a kink isn't it?
00:04:37It's kind of like...
00:04:37Not like everybody else.
00:04:38Well...
00:04:39Yeah.
00:04:40I mean...
00:04:41I'm...
00:04:42I've...
00:04:43I've never wanted to be part of a scene as such.
00:04:45You know.
00:04:46I've been...
00:04:47Always been a bit of a lone wolf.
00:04:48And...
00:04:49You know.
00:04:50Trying out my own things.
00:04:51You know.
00:04:52Yeah.
00:04:52I mean...
00:04:53Nothing against scenes and all that.
00:04:54But...
00:04:55I've...
00:04:56Nothing against people.
00:04:57Exactly.
00:04:57I agree.
00:04:58Yeah.
00:04:59Um...
00:05:00Yeah.
00:05:01Yeah.
00:05:02Anyway.
00:05:03Did you have any choice about being a lone wolf?
00:05:06No.
00:05:07I just think that's in my nature.
00:05:09You know.
00:05:11Um...
00:05:12Yeah.
00:05:13I mean...
00:05:14Yeah.
00:05:15I mean...
00:05:16I was always a bit of a loner when I was a kid.
00:05:18You know too.
00:05:19You know.
00:05:20And...
00:05:21Music was always something.
00:05:21Not...
00:05:22Was probably my best friend.
00:05:24You know.
00:05:25Hmm.
00:05:26Did you...
00:05:27When were you able to...
00:05:28Did you...
00:05:29When were you able to...
00:05:30Did you...
00:05:31Did you...
00:05:31Kind of...
00:05:32Um...
00:05:33Identify if that's the right...
00:05:36Thought out word.
00:05:37The music.
00:05:38As a path.
00:05:39That's something you...
00:05:41Wanted to follow.
00:05:42Like how old were you do you think when you said...
00:05:44No.
00:05:45I'm gonna do this.
00:05:46Well I would...
00:05:46I was actually at college in Dublin in 1964.
00:05:49Hmm.
00:05:50And I started...
00:05:51Listening to all the...
00:05:52R&B bands were starting up in the town.
00:05:54Beat groups we called them at the time.
00:05:56But...
00:05:57I went to a couple of gigs and...
00:05:59And I just felt...
00:06:00Hey.
00:06:01I don't know why I'm at the university.
00:06:03I shouldn't be here.
00:06:04But this is what I should be doing.
00:06:06And...
00:06:07Uh...
00:06:08Um...
00:06:09Then I was noticed...
00:06:10As a...
00:06:11Solo performer when the folk scene started coming up in Dublin.
00:06:14We're talking now maybe 66.
00:06:16And...
00:06:18The big...
00:06:19The ballad scene was bursting...
00:06:21In Ireland.
00:06:22Like you had...
00:06:23You had...
00:06:24The Dubliners.
00:06:25The Wolf Tones.
00:06:26The Ludlows.
00:06:27The Johnstons.
00:06:28Which I eventually joined.
00:06:29Um...
00:06:30It was the big ballad.
00:06:31But...
00:06:31And I got sucked up in that.
00:06:32And...
00:06:33Uhh...
00:06:34Eh...
00:06:35We...
00:06:36Who's not right?
00:06:37Because they were not even...
00:06:38And they knew by the12y...
00:06:39It was the group of...
00:06:40Um...
00:06:41And they were not very...
00:06:42And also...
00:06:43Now they had some...
00:06:44They were very nice,
00:06:44They were very nice...
00:06:45In fact...
00:06:46booked.
00:06:47And again...
00:06:48And there was a...
00:06:49It was a hassle...
00:06:50Um, terror.
00:06:55Well, just blank pages.
00:06:58I mean, I was very young at the time and I had...
00:07:00I wasn't long married, I had just, we had our first child, Sarah, and...
00:07:05Very shortly, then Colum came along, um, and I was...
00:07:10Having emotional situations and feelings that I hadn't had before, you know.
00:07:15I'm now a parent and those stimulated me enough to...
00:07:20I want to write music about it, you know, write songs about it.
00:07:23And that's how I started off.
00:07:25And really the first song that I felt like standing up behind...
00:07:30It was crazy dreams, yeah.
00:07:32How does that go again?
00:07:34Um...
00:07:35Snowbound siren in the winter dawn.
00:07:37There's a blizzard blowing in from off the river.
00:07:40It's ten below on these city streets.
00:07:42But the feeling in your heart is even colder.
00:07:45It's about being separated from the one you love.
00:07:48Yeah.
00:07:49You know.
00:07:50I remember you saying to me one time, um,
00:07:53I'm not somebody who...
00:07:55Finds life very easy.
00:07:56Did I say that?
00:07:57Yeah.
00:07:58Did I say that?
00:07:59Yeah.
00:08:00Wow.
00:08:01We were chatting in Vickery Street one time and you said,
00:08:04you know, I think...
00:08:06Were you close to 70?
00:08:08Yeah, maybe.
00:08:09And, uh...
00:08:10You kind of said,
00:08:11Yeah, I'm not someone who finds life easy.
00:08:13Well, does anybody really find life easy?
00:08:15Life's hard.
00:08:16Huh?
00:08:17Do you find life easy?
00:08:18Do you find life easy?
00:08:20Do you find life easy?
00:08:21Yeah.
00:08:22Oh, yeah.
00:08:23Do you find life-like...
00:08:24Um.
00:08:25No, but I keep it to myself.
00:08:30That always stayed with me, that kind of honesty.
00:08:35About how you're feeling.
00:08:38You said that, they're always kind of...
00:08:40Yeah, well, I blurt, you know.
00:08:45But I'm not ashamed of it, you know.
00:08:49Did you...
00:08:50Did you stay married?
00:08:51Oh, yes.
00:08:52I'm...
00:08:53Married, I...
00:08:55Actually, 50 years.
00:09:0025.
00:09:01We got married in 75.
00:09:03That's 50 years, isn't it?
00:09:05About that, yeah.
00:09:06Yeah.
00:09:07Good man.
00:09:08Yeah.
00:09:09I'm in.
00:09:10Ups and downs.
00:09:11Yeah.
00:09:12Who doesn't have them?
00:09:14But we're...
00:09:15Still together.
00:09:16And...
00:09:18Pleased to be together.
00:09:20Mm.
00:09:21Are you a perfectionist with the music and with the gigs?
00:09:25I used to be, but I'm not anymore.
00:09:27No.
00:09:28Life's too short.
00:09:30For that caper.
00:09:31So what kind of things have you stopped doing then?
00:09:34I let...
00:09:35Let stuff go.
00:09:36Um...
00:09:37A lot quicker than I would, you know.
00:09:40Um...
00:09:41And...
00:09:42I'm...
00:09:43Quite happy...
00:09:45To accept the first thing that comes out of me.
00:09:48I'm happy to accept the first thing that comes out of me.
00:09:50Rather than go, oh, that's not very good.
00:09:53I must be better than that.
00:09:55You know?
00:09:56I like...
00:09:57I let...
00:09:58What comes out of me now...
00:09:59Stand.
00:10:00Creatively?
00:10:01Or just like in conversation?
00:10:02In every way.
00:10:03Sort of.
00:10:04You know?
00:10:05I mean...
00:10:06It is what it is, you know.
00:10:08And...
00:10:09I'm...
00:10:10In the autumn of my career.
00:10:12Are you easier to live with now, Gerard?
00:10:15What do you reckon?
00:10:16Oh, I...
00:10:17I couldn't answer that question.
00:10:18You'd have to ask my family.
00:10:21So, now when you think of performing...
00:10:24Uh...
00:10:25Um...
00:10:26Where do you like to perform?
00:10:27And how do you like the tours to be?
00:10:29And...
00:10:30I want to have fun now.
00:10:32When I'm...
00:10:33When I'm working.
00:10:35And I don't want to be...
00:10:37Under pressure.
00:10:38Anymore.
00:10:40From...
00:10:41From...
00:10:42From...
00:10:43From...
00:10:45Myself, even.
00:10:46You know?
00:10:47Mmm.
00:10:48Although the missus would probably...
00:10:50argue with me.
00:10:51You know?
00:10:52In...
00:10:53In one sense.
00:10:54How do you mean she would say...
00:10:55Well, I mean...
00:10:56I even got nervous before I came in to talk to you.
00:10:58You know?
00:10:59And she's going...
00:11:00What's wrong with you?
00:11:00Does every man need...
00:11:011.
00:11:022.
00:11:032.
00:11:044.
00:11:052.
00:11:062.
00:11:071.
00:11:082.
00:11:093.
00:11:103.
00:11:114.
00:11:124.
00:11:135.
00:11:145.
00:11:156.
00:11:165.
00:11:175.
00:11:1810.
00:11:197.
00:11:2010.
00:11:218.
00:11:2210.
00:11:2410.
00:11:2510.
00:11:2610.
00:11:2710.
00:11:2810.
00:11:29there are demands in being your partner.
00:11:34Yeah.
00:11:35And that you're an unusual...
00:11:38Yeah.
00:11:39But it all comes, the talent, the artistry...
00:11:43Yeah, I mean...
00:11:44I'm a basket kiss in many ways, you know, and that's hard for any...
00:11:49Anybody in my immediate circle.
00:11:51Yeah.
00:11:52You know, and...
00:11:54But, you know, we've committed ourselves and we...
00:11:59We work hard at it and, you know...
00:12:03How do you...
00:12:04How do you work hard at it?
00:12:05What does that involve?
00:12:09Being kind.
00:12:12To yourself too.
00:12:14But being kind to...
00:12:16The people you love, you know.
00:12:19It's not always easy to be kind.
00:12:24Because...
00:12:25Because the instinct there is to sometimes...
00:12:27Because you might be going through...
00:12:29Something that's annoying the shit out of you, you know.
00:12:32And...
00:12:34You're trying to...
00:12:35And people around you are reacting to it in a way...
00:12:39That you can't handle at the time, you know.
00:12:41Hmm.
00:12:42No.
00:12:43It's just...
00:12:44Families.
00:12:45You know.
00:12:46Did you ever have a suspicion that you might be...
00:12:48Um...
00:12:49On...
00:12:50On...
00:12:51Like...
00:12:52On the spectrum or something.
00:12:53Or have some...
00:12:55You mean...
00:12:56You mean...
00:12:57You mean they might have an excuse?
00:12:58No.
00:13:00It's not me.
00:13:01It's my wiring.
00:13:02No.
00:13:03No.
00:13:04I don't think so.
00:13:05I may be wrong there now.
00:13:06Because I never went and got looked at.
00:13:08Hmm.
00:13:09But...
00:13:09But...
00:13:10But I...
00:13:11I don't feel I'm...
00:13:12I don't feel...
00:13:13I don't feel...
00:13:14I don't feel any excuses.
00:13:15Yeah.
00:13:17What...
00:13:18What do you think...
00:13:19Than when you said you're batshit crazy?
00:13:21Like...
00:13:22I didn't say that.
00:13:23I said I'm a batshit kid.
00:13:24Alright.
00:13:25Sorry.
00:13:26I knew there was a B and an S in it anyway.
00:13:30What's your...
00:13:31In what ways are you batshit crazy?
00:13:34Like...
00:13:38You know I...
00:13:39I'm wired for things that...
00:13:42We're all wired for things that...
00:13:44Happened when we were very young.
00:13:46And...
00:13:47They keep yelling at you.
00:13:49All through your life.
00:13:52And...
00:13:53It's hard to get rid of them.
00:13:54You know.
00:13:55Stupid stuff.
00:13:56You know.
00:13:57Hmm.
00:13:58You know.
00:13:59You might worry how you're loved.
00:14:04You might worry about money.
00:14:05You know.
00:14:06Stupid stuff.
00:14:07You know.
00:14:08Stupid stuff.
00:14:09And...
00:14:12But it's just...
00:14:13You know.
00:14:14Yeah.
00:14:15And...
00:14:16Performing.
00:14:17And...
00:14:18Going out and singing.
00:14:19Helps me...
00:14:21Um...
00:14:22Put up with myself.
00:14:24You know.
00:14:26I got a real strong sense when you were talking there before you mentioned...
00:14:29Your childhood.
00:14:30Hmm.
00:14:31Of...
00:14:32There being...
00:14:33How...
00:14:34How...
00:14:34Some sort of a...
00:14:37That there was a shaping...
00:14:39Being there.
00:14:40Hmm.
00:14:41That...
00:14:42Still lives with you.
00:14:43Yeah.
00:14:44Yeah.
00:14:45Yeah.
00:14:46Yeah.
00:14:47Yeah.
00:14:49I should probably go and see a shrink or something.
00:14:51But I haven't ever done.
00:14:52Yeah.
00:14:53Yeah.
00:14:54Yeah.
00:14:55Yeah.
00:14:56Yeah.
00:14:57Yeah.
00:14:58Yeah.
00:14:59What is that about?
00:14:58Then that...
00:14:59People...
00:15:00Hit their 70s.
00:15:01Hmm.
00:15:03And are still carrying...
00:15:05And are still carrying...
00:15:08I don't know if it's a grievance or a wound or a...
00:15:11Thing from childhood.
00:15:12Like what...
00:15:13Why does it last...
00:15:14Why does it last...
00:15:15Who are we that that lasts so long?
00:15:18That is the question.
00:15:21That is the question.
00:15:23I don't know.
00:15:25I don't know.
00:15:28You don't want to talk about it.
00:15:31You don't want to talk about it.
00:15:33No, no.
00:15:34No.
00:15:35No.
00:15:36No.
00:15:37No.
00:15:38No, no.
00:15:38Well, not in public, I don't think, you know.
00:15:42I mean...
00:15:43I divulge enough in public through my songs.
00:15:48Yeah.
00:15:49Without going any further.
00:15:52And I...
00:15:53There are people that you do talk to.
00:15:57Oh, yeah.
00:15:58And that no.
00:15:59And that...
00:16:00Yeah, yeah.
00:16:01Yeah.
00:16:04I mean, friends are great, you know.
00:16:07Yeah.
00:16:08And...
00:16:09I find that the older you get, the less friends you have.
00:16:13For some reason.
00:16:14Well, I mean, apart from the physicality of someone...
00:16:18of them dying, you know.
00:16:19Yeah.
00:16:20Just...
00:16:23Hold on to friends.
00:16:27They're very valuable.
00:16:28Yeah.
00:16:31Do you have good memories...
00:16:33of the people that you would have hung out with over the years?
00:16:36Um...
00:16:38fellow travellers?
00:16:39Like, do you have...
00:16:40uh...
00:16:41affection?
00:16:42I think.
00:16:43Oh, yeah.
00:16:44Oh, yeah.
00:16:45Oh, I have great...
00:16:46Uh, yeah.
00:16:47I have...
00:16:48huge affection for Randy.
00:16:48Irvine.
00:16:49Absolutely.
00:16:50You know, Andy and I went through a lot together.
00:16:53Um...
00:16:54Uh...
00:16:55Uh...
00:16:56But...
00:16:57And I...
00:16:58I...
00:16:58I so admire him.
00:16:59I don't know where he gets his energy.
00:17:01He's out there touring.
00:17:03Uh...
00:17:04Australia now.
00:17:05He's...
00:17:06He's 83, for God's sake.
00:17:07Yeah.
00:17:08Uh...
00:17:08And I mean...
00:17:09Uh...
00:17:10And he's all over America.
00:17:11And he's...
00:17:12You know...
00:17:13Uh...
00:17:14And...
00:17:15He's just...
00:17:16And his thing is...
00:17:18It's just so beautiful.
00:17:19His voice.
00:17:20His music.
00:17:21His voice.
00:17:22His music.
00:17:23His sensibility.
00:17:25His sensibility.
00:17:26It's just so beautiful.
00:17:28And I'm very glad I met him and spent time with him.
00:17:33It's a kind of love, isn't it?
00:17:35Oh, it is. Absolutely.
00:17:38When you were deciding which of your 12 years
00:17:43a lot of guitarists to bring out.
00:17:48What song did you have in mind to play?
00:17:50And why did you think that I'd like to play that one?
00:17:52Well, because...
00:17:53One of the stipulations was that it wasn't too long.
00:17:58And also, I just wanted...
00:18:03It seemed to be not a very heavy song.
00:18:08This is a song I wrote when I woke up from a nightmare.
00:18:13That I was back in Latin class in St. Columns College Derry as a boarder.
00:18:18So, I was in New York at the time.
00:18:23When I wrote it.
00:18:25It came out very, very quick.
00:18:27Will I give it a go?
00:18:28Please.
00:18:28It's called The World Is What You Make It.
00:18:33It's called The World Is What You Make It.
00:18:37It's called The World Is What You Make It.
00:18:39It's called The World Is What You Make It
00:18:40It's called The World Is What You Make It.
00:18:41Mmhmm.
00:18:42Mhmm.
00:18:43Uh-huh.
00:18:53I knew this African call.
00:18:58Hannibal, rock it, roll it, send it down the avenue.
00:19:03Not to see the Roman Empire fall.
00:19:09Two thousand elephants and gold chain mail.
00:19:12Take it, shake it.
00:19:13Make it what you want to be.
00:19:15Them Roman regioners, they hit the trail.
00:19:18The world is what you're making.
00:19:23The world is what you're making, baby.
00:19:28The world is what you're making.
00:19:33Cleopatra ruled in Egypt's land.
00:19:36Jump down, turn around, look at what the...
00:19:38She went to find herself a mighty man.
00:19:43And come Antonio from Italy.
00:19:48Ballin', ballin', dragin' up the pyramid.
00:19:52He never knew how the girl could...
00:19:53The world is what you're making.
00:19:58The world is what you're making, baby.
00:20:03The world is what you're making.
00:20:08Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.
00:20:13Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:16Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.
00:20:18No, no, no, no, no, no, no
00:20:23No, no, no, no, no, no, no
00:20:28No, no, no, no, no, no, no
00:20:33The world is what you're making
00:20:35The world is what you're making
00:20:38The world is what you're making
00:20:41And that's...
00:20:43It's true
00:20:44Mm
00:20:48You're good like
00:20:50A vowel voice didn't come in but never mind
00:20:52Wow
00:20:53That's a mad one, that
00:20:58Yeah
00:20:59Don't start to hit me with your no can do
00:21:02Blues and...
00:21:03Losing, losing, working up an attitude
00:21:05Clean up them windows and let the sun shine through
00:21:08Huh?
00:21:10The world is what you're making
00:21:13Yeah
00:21:14Are we mad or what?
00:21:16Ah
00:21:18Anyway, can I just ask you something
00:21:20Was that...
00:21:22Would there be any...
00:21:23Worthwhile doing that performance again or...
00:21:26Now you had said...
00:21:28What?
00:21:30You big liar
00:21:31You had said 20 minutes ago
00:21:34I'm not as much of a perfectionist as I used to be
00:21:36And...
00:21:37I'm happy
00:21:38With whatever comes out of my mouth first time round
00:21:40Alright, alright
00:21:41Okay, sorry
00:21:43Cause...
00:21:46But...
00:21:47If...
00:21:48You know...
00:21:49Yeah
00:21:50Did you like it?
00:21:51I loved it Paul
00:21:52I loved it
00:21:53I loved it
00:21:54I loved it
00:21:55I loved it
00:21:56I loved it
00:21:57It's been a pleasure
00:21:58To talk to you fella
00:21:59And yourself
00:22:00Thank you
00:22:01Absolutely
00:22:02Thank you
00:22:03You have to wear all black
00:22:04And I will...
00:22:05What's up?
00:22:06We're all black
00:22:08We're all black
00:22:09You have to wear...
00:22:10We're all black
00:22:11We're all black
00:22:12We're all black
00:22:13Welcome back to the second half, everybody.
00:22:17Freddie, who's next?
00:22:18Tom.
00:22:18Our next guest is Fionn Ferreira.
00:22:28Fionn, how are you?
00:22:30Nice to meet you, fella.
00:22:32Me too.
00:22:33What's your story?
00:22:38Big question.
00:22:42Okay, well, I'm Fionn.
00:22:44I'm from West Cork.
00:22:47I like...
00:22:48taking things apart.
00:22:52And I also like building...
00:22:53I like building things.
00:22:54And I like to look at things that...
00:22:58some people...
00:23:00try to ignore as well.
00:23:01So, I'm going to teach...
00:23:06So, I'm going to teach...
00:23:07I'm an inventor...
00:23:11and...
00:23:12I think...
00:23:14a lot of people...
00:23:15look at a lot of problems in the world.
00:23:17particularly environmental ones.
00:23:20That's what I kind of work on.
00:23:22But also...
00:23:22other areas with...
00:23:23kind of...
00:23:25the view that...
00:23:26they're institutional...
00:23:27problems that come from...
00:23:30rulemaking, from...
00:23:31from policy...
00:23:32but...
00:23:33I personally think...
00:23:34that a lot of things...
00:23:35can be solved by...
00:23:36invention.
00:23:37and taking a screwdriver...
00:23:39and a pair of pliers.
00:23:41Can you talk to me about...
00:23:42some of the work...
00:23:43that you've done?
00:23:44So...
00:23:45I grew up in West Hork...
00:23:47and...
00:23:48being by the seashore there...
00:23:50and...
00:23:51and I...
00:23:51I think...
00:23:52being...
00:23:52close...
00:23:53to the environment there...
00:23:55kind of...
00:23:56if I liked it or not.
00:23:57forced me to fall in love...
00:23:58with it too.
00:23:59and...
00:24:00that's why...
00:24:01I...
00:24:02when I was...
00:24:03well...
00:24:04I guess...
00:24:0514 years old...
00:24:0615 years old...
00:24:07I...
00:24:08really...
00:24:09felt very passionate...
00:24:10about...
00:24:11the seashore...
00:24:12and saw a lot...
00:24:12of problems...
00:24:13that were...
00:24:14were happening there...
00:24:15particularly...
00:24:16for instance...
00:24:17plastic pollution...
00:24:18which...
00:24:19I guess...
00:24:20we...
00:24:21we...
00:24:23we...
00:24:24we...
00:24:26we...
00:24:27we...
00:24:28we...
00:24:29we...
00:24:30we...
00:24:31we...
00:24:32we...
00:24:33we...
00:24:34we...
00:24:35we...
00:24:36we...
00:24:37we...
00:24:38we...
00:24:39we...
00:24:40we...
00:24:41and then leave the water a little bit cleaner.
00:24:43So on something the size though...
00:24:46of a C or a...
00:24:51beach, how do you...
00:24:53I can understand how something like that might work in...
00:24:56It's like a lunchbox full of contaminated water in a laboratory.
00:25:01But how does it work on something as big as a seashore?
00:25:05Well...
00:25:06First of all you say laboratory.
00:25:07I was 14 so I didn't have a laboratory.
00:25:10And I didn't really have...
00:25:11particularly supportive teachers either at school.
00:25:13So it was very much...
00:25:14You invented it then?
00:25:15Yes.
00:25:16Exactly.
00:25:17But yeah, to go back to where we can apply it...
00:25:21I...
00:25:22So you invented this thing when you were like 15 or something?
00:25:26Yeah.
00:25:27Actually, you know, I guess the story that most people pull out of me always...
00:25:31is that...
00:25:32I did this because...
00:25:34because...
00:25:35I just felt like...
00:25:36I couldn't...
00:25:37avoid...
00:25:38not doing something for the environment.
00:25:40That's actually a lie.
00:25:41Yeah.
00:25:42Okay.
00:25:43I'm very, very passionate about the environment and making a difference there.
00:25:46for sure that's why I did it.
00:25:47But...
00:25:48to be very honest...
00:25:49I participated in the...
00:25:51I was doing scientists exhibition twice before this.
00:25:54And to be honest, I was mainly looking for...
00:25:56a project exhibit.
00:25:57Because...
00:25:58And that's kind of why...
00:26:01I decided to kind of combine my love for the environment...
00:26:04and microplastics and...
00:26:06trying to make something good for the environment...
00:26:08with...
00:26:09my superpower of innovation.
00:26:11and being able to build things...
00:26:12and screw things together in my backyard...
00:26:14with Lego and wood.
00:26:16What is it that you...
00:26:17understand...
00:26:18that most...
00:26:19What is it that you...
00:26:20understand...
00:26:21that most...
00:26:21people don't?
00:26:22I think...
00:26:26a lot of people...
00:26:29I think...
00:26:30a lot of people...
00:26:31are willing to accept...
00:26:34things that other people say.
00:26:36and are willing to just believe...
00:26:38stuff that people tell them.
00:26:41And I think I'm very bad at that.
00:26:43And I need to find out for myself...
00:26:45how things work.
00:26:46and understand how something works as well.
00:26:49And...
00:26:50I think that's what...
00:26:51you help me there.
00:26:52I looked...
00:26:54at the problem of microplastics...
00:26:56these tiny plastic particles...
00:26:58by the way...
00:26:59we're breathing them in right now...
00:27:00uh...
00:27:01this glass of water...
00:27:02probably has a couple of hundred...
00:27:03particles inside...
00:27:04and...
00:27:05how...
00:27:06how do...
00:27:06how does...
00:27:07microplastics...
00:27:08get...
00:27:09everywhere?
00:27:10Well...
00:27:11microplastic pollution...
00:27:12can come from...
00:27:13a variety of sources.
00:27:14I guess the classic is...
00:27:16these clothes made of plastic...
00:27:17which when we wash them...
00:27:18tiny particles break off.
00:27:21when you wash a piece of polyester clothing...
00:27:23hundreds of thousands of plastic particles...
00:27:25are entering the water.
00:27:26okay...
00:27:27but there's many more sources too...
00:27:28right?
00:27:29make-up for instance...
00:27:30would also have plastic in it...
00:27:31but then we also have...
00:27:32large plastic items...
00:27:33that...
00:27:34are crashing against rocks...
00:27:35and in the ocean...
00:27:36breaking down...
00:27:36the smaller ones...
00:27:37mm...
00:27:38um...
00:27:39how...
00:27:40would...
00:27:41your parents...
00:27:42describe you...
00:27:43as...
00:27:44a child?
00:27:45like...
00:27:46what would they...
00:27:46do they...
00:27:47do you have brothers and sisters?
00:27:48what do you think?
00:27:49what do I think?
00:27:50yeah...
00:27:51no...
00:27:54no...
00:27:56well...
00:27:57you're correct...
00:27:58ah...
00:28:00ah...
00:28:01I think...
00:28:02I think...
00:28:03I think my parents...
00:28:04would describe me as...
00:28:06somebody who didn't take...
00:28:07a lot of things for granted...
00:28:08and I think...
00:28:10they very much supported me...
00:28:12in...
00:28:13all...
00:28:14like anything...
00:28:15I got enthusiastic about...
00:28:16they just supported me in it...
00:28:17and...
00:28:18I think I got very stuck...
00:28:19into things...
00:28:20are they...
00:28:21academic or...
00:28:22super smart as well?
00:28:23both my parents actually...
00:28:24are both...
00:28:25boat builders...
00:28:26and they...
00:28:27they build...
00:28:28wooden boats...
00:28:29um...
00:28:30and...
00:28:30and I think that...
00:28:31they kind of gave me this...
00:28:32this feeling that...
00:28:33basically anything in the world...
00:28:35you can just...
00:28:36build yourself...
00:28:37or understand yourself...
00:28:38whenever...
00:28:39whenever...
00:28:40I would ask a question...
00:28:41and...
00:28:42I think I asked a lot of questions...
00:28:43my favorite word...
00:28:44was actually...
00:28:45um...
00:28:46sounds like you were...
00:28:48explaining a lot of stuff...
00:28:49I think I was...
00:28:50yeah...
00:28:51but...
00:28:52I think it's because...
00:28:53they explain things...
00:28:54to me as well...
00:28:55yeah...
00:28:56but if I asked a question...
00:28:57you know...
00:28:58I asked a lot of these...
00:28:59these very deep...
00:29:00philosophic...
00:28:59questions...
00:29:00I think they would always...
00:29:01try and answer me...
00:29:02as precise as possible...
00:29:04even if that required...
00:29:06like...
00:29:07reading three books...
00:29:08um...
00:29:09can you...
00:29:10remember what you were like...
00:29:12do you think...
00:29:13in...
00:29:14in primary school...
00:29:14uh...
00:29:15I'm just...
00:29:16I'm fascinated by...
00:29:17a mind like yours...
00:29:18and an ability like your...
00:29:19uh...
00:29:21that...
00:29:22obsessional...
00:29:23drive...
00:29:24and...
00:29:25intelligence...
00:29:26so I'm curious about...
00:29:27what you might have been like...
00:29:28in primary school...
00:29:29so I moved...
00:29:31primary school...
00:29:32twice...
00:29:33so I went to three...
00:29:34primary schools...
00:29:35why did you move...
00:29:36twice...
00:29:37and this is...
00:29:38you know...
00:29:39this is West Cork...
00:29:40so...
00:29:39it...
00:29:40really...
00:29:41I...
00:29:42I got all the ones in the area...
00:29:43and...
00:29:44I think...
00:29:44I was a little bit frustrated...
00:29:46in primary school...
00:29:47that things weren't going...
00:29:48quicker...
00:29:49than I would have wanted...
00:29:51and I think...
00:29:52I just found it...
00:29:53a little bit boring...
00:29:54and...
00:29:55I also feel like...
00:29:56I didn't really ever have friends...
00:29:57through schooling...
00:29:58to be very honest...
00:29:59prior...
00:29:59in primary school...
00:30:00and...
00:30:01I think...
00:30:02I was really heavily bullied...
00:30:03actually...
00:30:04in primary school...
00:30:04to the point that...
00:30:06well...
00:30:07I switched schools...
00:30:08the first time...
00:30:09because of that...
00:30:10I just...
00:30:11didn't...
00:30:09feel like...
00:30:10there was anyone there...
00:30:11I could have a...
00:30:12kind of an interesting...
00:30:13conversation with...
00:30:14yeah...
00:30:15I don't think I was like...
00:30:16the...
00:30:17the student getting...
00:30:18really good...
00:30:19on every...
00:30:19spelling test...
00:30:20or whatever...
00:30:21actually...
00:30:22I think that was something...
00:30:23that I was really bad at...
00:30:24but...
00:30:24any time you read about...
00:30:26genius people...
00:30:27they will all tell you...
00:30:28they...
00:30:29oh...
00:30:30I was...
00:30:29awful at school...
00:30:30and people used to tell me...
00:30:31I was stupid...
00:30:32not to sit down...
00:30:33in the back of the class...
00:30:34so...
00:30:35you know...
00:30:36sometimes...
00:30:37that kind of failure...
00:30:38is a sign of...
00:30:39super intelligence...
00:30:41you know...
00:30:42so...
00:30:43so one of my favorite teachers...
00:30:44in secondary school...
00:30:45was...
00:30:46somebody who taught...
00:30:47one of my least favorite subjects...
00:30:48and not...
00:30:49because I don't like the subject...
00:30:50but mainly because I...
00:30:51like...
00:30:52I think the Irish language...
00:30:54is wonderful...
00:30:55and I love speaking Irish...
00:30:57but...
00:30:58I felt like...
00:30:59I don't think...
00:31:00I am now going to be writing...
00:31:01Irish poetry...
00:31:02any time soon...
00:31:03personally...
00:31:04but anyway...
00:31:05I went to my teacher...
00:31:06Miss Barry...
00:31:07she was...
00:31:08incredible...
00:31:09because she just...
00:31:10understood...
00:31:11my vision...
00:31:12no...
00:31:13you're...
00:31:13Nothing more annoying to a teacher than a young fella coming up with a vision.
00:31:18And this was coming up to Leaving Cert, like two years before Leaving Cert.
00:31:23Coming into fifth year.
00:31:24And I said, I...
00:31:28I want to learn one essay for the Leaving Cert because...
00:31:33To be honest, coming up with a new essay for every one of these...
00:31:38Exercise is a lot of work.
00:31:40And I want to use my time for something else.
00:31:43So it's your job to come up with an essay that fits every single question.
00:31:49On the Leaving Cert.
00:31:50One that I can adapt.
00:31:52She actually...
00:31:53She said, okay.
00:31:54Let's make one.
00:31:55And we made an essay.
00:31:56And I learned that essay.
00:31:59End to end.
00:32:00And it was like a one size fits all essay.
00:32:02You know?
00:32:03Like...
00:32:03It just felt like it could fit every prompt.
00:32:05And I wrote it in my Leaving Cert and I got a B.
00:32:08And...
00:32:10And...
00:32:11I don't know.
00:32:12I think...
00:32:13That probably made me a little bit unpopular with some teachers.
00:32:16Of course.
00:32:17Um...
00:32:19Miss, I have a vision.
00:32:21Well, she identified my vision.
00:32:23I also had some teachers who actually...
00:32:25Yeah.
00:32:26I just felt like we're very sharp and...
00:32:28They also had a vision for me as well.
00:32:29Yeah.
00:32:30A counter vision.
00:32:31So...
00:32:32Quite ordinary things.
00:32:33Are you not able to do?
00:32:34What are you not able to do?
00:32:38I guess it's very difficult to say what ordinary is.
00:32:43There's a couple of things I really, really don't like doing.
00:32:47The thing...
00:32:48The thing that frustrates me the most is waiting around...
00:32:53I'm kind of...
00:32:54Wasting my time here on Earth.
00:32:59Actually...
00:33:00I don't know.
00:33:02I...
00:33:03I just have this like...
00:33:04Yeah.
00:33:05I feel like...
00:33:08At the moment, at least, I feel like there's a lot of things I want to do.
00:33:12And a lot...
00:33:13There's a lot of things I want to experience.
00:33:14And I...
00:33:15I mean, I live in Switzerland at the moment.
00:33:17And that means...
00:33:18I have like mountain FOMO.
00:33:19Like the minute I leave work, I want to go into the mountains and go on to...
00:33:23Just the highest peaks or the 4,000 meters or go skiing or something like that.
00:33:27Or here in West...
00:33:28I'll go sailing and out on the water all the time.
00:33:31All right.
00:33:32Wow.
00:33:33So you're very...
00:33:33As well as being...
00:33:34Like...
00:33:35Er...
00:33:36Charged.
00:33:37Charged.
00:33:38Up here.
00:33:39You're also...
00:33:40Physically very able as well.
00:33:42You're very...
00:33:43Skillful with your body.
00:33:46I would actually say that...
00:33:48I'm one of these scientists who...
00:33:50Who is very practical and...
00:33:51You know, I build instruments for...
00:33:53Well, microplastic removal also, but...
00:33:55But also measurement.
00:33:56And that's why I'm basically in the workshop screwing things.
00:33:58Together.
00:33:59But I told my boss.
00:34:00My new boss in Switzerland.
00:34:01I said...
00:34:02Hey...
00:34:03Like, I can't think sitting in my office.
00:34:06So if it's okay with you...
00:34:08When I have to do office work...
00:34:10I'm going to be working from home from a mountain somewhere.
00:34:13And if you can't accept that...
00:34:15Then I'll go somewhere else.
00:34:16Good man.
00:34:17Fair play to you.
00:34:18And...
00:34:19I mean...
00:34:20He accepted it.
00:34:21Luckily for him.
00:34:22But...
00:34:23I feel...
00:34:23Like...
00:34:24For me...
00:34:25I need to stay active and in the...
00:34:28The wilderness.
00:34:29And only there can I really think.
00:34:30And that's actually the first thing I say...
00:34:31To anyone who wants to...
00:34:32Make...
00:34:33Make a difference in the world.
00:34:34Or...
00:34:35Actually do something for the environment.
00:34:36Or...
00:34:37Or to solve some problem.
00:34:38Be it societal or whatever.
00:34:39Is...
00:34:40To go outside.
00:34:41Or go to the place where that...
00:34:43prominent because so many people are telling me about how
00:34:48I don't know how to solve some big environmental problem
00:34:53and I feel like too few people actually go outside and enjoy the environment that we're also kind of
00:34:58destroying and I think if more people would fall in love with the environment and I think the best thing
00:35:03perhaps we could do for the environment is to promote younger people to go outside more
00:35:08and spend more time outside then I think we could have a totally different
00:35:13view in the world
00:35:14what did you do
00:35:18after the that the microplastics project
00:35:23did a couple of years to go in school
00:35:25yeah well actually so the microplastic project I
00:35:28won one of the top prizes at the Young Scientist and then that that sent me on this huge train of
00:35:33loads of different science fairs global ones etc and then I won the Google grand prize
00:35:38the Google science fair global in 2019 and then I went
00:35:43to the Netherlands to study chemistry but I got invited to the World Economic Forum in Davos
00:35:48in 2020 and I at the at the forum they
00:35:53they it was the year of the change makers so so I was on stages together with Greta Thunberg
00:35:58I was also on a discussion on stage with some people like Klaus Schwab
00:36:03or also Donald Trump was there also in a discussion that we participated in
00:36:08and I think there I realized hey I actually
00:36:13have something that could be groundbreaking and I talked about it a little bit in a fireside
00:36:18chat and then somebody came to me in the green room
00:36:20they said hey and he kind of looked really familiar
00:36:23and he said hey I'd like to help you
00:36:28so my coalition the footprint
00:36:33coalition we fund ideas like yours and we'd actually fund you to turn it into a
00:36:38company and actually to start doing innovation I said okay
00:36:43and it turned out that it was Robert Downey Jr.
00:36:48and his footprint coalition who started to fund me and that's why
00:36:53I then built a company for microplastic removal and through his
00:36:58funding but also from from many other mainly family offices
00:37:03and together with help from my manager who really is in this entertainment world
00:37:08I was able to basically fund a venture into the world of microplastics and actually
00:37:13make some patents for this process and also license these ads so that we can
00:37:18actually do microplastic removal at scale.
00:37:21And what other kind of
00:37:23work attracts you
00:37:25other inquiries
00:37:28and imaginings
00:37:30and imaginings
00:37:31like where where is your
00:37:32where is your
00:37:33where is your
00:37:33what are you working on at the moment
00:37:35what are you working on at the moment
00:37:36what are you working on at the moment
00:37:37what are you working on at the moment
00:37:38what are you working on at the moment
00:37:39what are you working on at the moment
00:37:40what are you working on at the moment
00:37:41what are you working on at the moment
00:37:42what are you working on at the moment
00:37:43what are you working on at the moment
00:37:44what are you working on at the moment
00:37:45what are you working on at the moment
00:37:46what are you working on since
00:37:47what are you working on at the moment
00:37:48what are you working on at the moment
00:37:49what are you working on since
00:37:50what are you working on since
00:37:51what are you working on at the moment
00:37:52what are you working on since
00:37:53what are you working on since
00:37:54what are you working on at the moment
00:37:56of the sea ice in the North Pole.
00:37:59OK, I was also there for the snowmobiling and the...
00:38:01seeing the polar bears and things, but mainly also for the science.
00:38:06And that's why when I saw a group at ETH in Zurich where they...
00:38:11were just building devices for measurement, particularly with magnetism.
00:38:16So, for instance, like an MRI scanner for a brain.
00:38:19This uses the same technology we work on.
00:38:21I thought, wow, this could be a group for me.
00:38:23Finally, a chemistry group that works on the machine.
00:38:26And that's what I work on now.
00:38:29I develop better nuclear...
00:38:31magnetic resonance spectrometers for measurement of things like...
00:38:36molecules that are made, but also MRI imagery as well.
00:38:40And...
00:38:41how would you say you are...
00:38:46socially and relationally?
00:38:49What would I say?
00:38:50I would say that...
00:38:51when I first...
00:38:55when I first...
00:38:56moved...
00:38:57moved...
00:38:58to the Netherlands...
00:39:00I think I...
00:39:01had come from Ireland and from West Thork...
00:39:06school...
00:39:07where I very much had the...
00:39:08the opinion that I was like...
00:39:10completely...
00:39:11bad at making friends...
00:39:12and completely asexual.
00:39:14And I quickly...
00:39:16realized...
00:39:17that...
00:39:20I quickly...
00:39:21realized that...
00:39:22I was actually rather good at making friends...
00:39:24just that...
00:39:25I was...
00:39:26the wrong people...
00:39:27mmm...
00:39:28and that I was homosexual.
00:39:29And I think that...
00:39:30I think that...
00:39:31once I realized those two things...
00:39:34and once I realized that maybe...
00:39:36the...
00:39:37the environment that I grew up in...
00:39:38didn't help with that.
00:39:39Mmm...
00:39:40I...
00:39:41I really have felt like...
00:39:42that...
00:39:43I very much opened up...
00:39:44and...
00:39:45I feel like...
00:39:46when I'm not in the mountains...
00:39:48I am probably at some rave...
00:39:50in some super...
00:39:51dirty...
00:39:52bunker rave...
00:39:53somewhere in Europe...
00:39:54or playing music myself...
00:39:56uh...
00:39:57or like dancing the night...
00:39:59I like to think that...
00:40:00I'm a very open person.
00:40:01and...
00:40:02quite social...
00:40:03and...
00:40:04making lots of new connections.
00:40:05How did the...
00:40:06the time in the Arctic...
00:40:08and...
00:40:09uh...
00:40:10measuring...
00:40:11the water?
00:40:13How...
00:40:14how did you think...
00:40:15you might be able to use that?
00:40:16positively?
00:40:18Well...
00:40:19pretty much...
00:40:20all our pollution...
00:40:21ends up in the Arctic Ocean...
00:40:22at some point.
00:40:23That's the...
00:40:24the ocean currents...
00:40:25bring it up there.
00:40:26And we...
00:40:26actually have a huge...
00:40:27global impact...
00:40:28on...
00:40:29the oceans...
00:40:30and...
00:40:31and the world.
00:40:31and...
00:40:32for me...
00:40:33this was something that...
00:40:34also made me realize that...
00:40:35well...
00:40:36this global impact...
00:40:36doesn't have to be negative...
00:40:37like our pollution...
00:40:38but it can also be positive...
00:40:39like...
00:40:40like our innovations...
00:40:41like our mindsets...
00:40:42so...
00:40:43for me...
00:40:44it was very motivating...
00:40:45it felt like...
00:40:46there is...
00:40:46hope there...
00:40:47and...
00:40:48climate is adapting...
00:40:49to us humans...
00:40:50whether we like it or not.
00:40:51Yeah.
00:40:51so all we have to do...
00:40:52is give it...
00:40:53a little bit of a chance...
00:40:54and...
00:40:55to get more people...
00:40:56to fall in love with...
00:40:57that will...
00:40:56wilderness...
00:40:57and be out there...
00:40:58and...
00:40:59whatever pollution...
00:41:01we throw at it...
00:41:02whatever problems...
00:41:03we throw at it...
00:41:04the earth itself...
00:41:05will adapt...
00:41:06and change...
00:41:07might not be the one...
00:41:08we know...
00:41:09but...
00:41:10it will...
00:41:11still have...
00:41:12a life...
00:41:13after us.
00:41:14A billion years from now...
00:41:15there's still...
00:41:16where we're going to be...
00:41:17exactly...
00:41:18but probably...
00:41:19we're not going to be here...
00:41:20luckily for earth...
00:41:21I don't need to be worried...
00:41:22about...
00:41:23the earth...
00:41:24surviving...
00:41:25in...
00:41:26instead...
00:41:27the reason why...
00:41:28I care about the environment...
00:41:29and the wilderness...
00:41:30is because...
00:41:31I am in love with it...
00:41:32myself...
00:41:33and it's a very...
00:41:34very personal thing...
00:41:35for me...
00:41:36I don't...
00:41:38I don't work on microplastics...
00:41:39because...
00:41:40I am worried about the...
00:41:41fish that's eating...
00:41:42the microplastics...
00:41:43I know this sounds...
00:41:44very selfless...
00:41:45or sorry...
00:41:46very selfish of me...
00:41:46but I very much work...
00:41:47on microplastics...
00:41:48because I...
00:41:49love kayaking...
00:41:50on the oceans...
00:41:51in West Cork...
00:41:52or wherever...
00:41:53and I absolutely love...
00:41:54seeing the animals...
00:41:55and the...
00:41:56nature there...
00:41:57and being in that...
00:41:58and I want...
00:41:59future generations...
00:42:00to have that...
00:42:01experience too...
00:42:02that's why...
00:42:03I work on microplastics...
00:42:04and that's why...
00:42:05I work on technologies...
00:42:06for...
00:42:06on the planet...
00:42:11I have to wind...
00:42:12the interview up now...
00:42:13and...
00:42:16there is...
00:42:17no way...
00:42:18of...
00:42:19describing you...
00:42:20er...
00:42:21er...
00:42:25er...
00:42:26but thank you...
00:42:27very much Fionn...
00:42:28thank you...
00:42:29thank you...
00:42:30thank you...
00:42:31thank you...
00:42:36thank you...
00:42:39thank you...
00:42:40thank you...
00:42:41thank you...
00:42:44welcome back to the third half...
00:42:45everybody...
00:42:46Freddie...
00:42:47who's next?
00:42:48Tommy...
00:42:49our next guest is...
00:42:50Aoife Dunn...
00:42:52uh...
00:42:54uh...
00:42:56Whoo!
00:42:56Hi, how are you?
00:42:58How are you? Nice to meet you.
00:43:01Do I know you?
00:43:04No, you're not.
00:43:06I don't know, maybe you do.
00:43:07You're one of those Irish names that you could be very well known.
00:43:10Yeah, we could be related.
00:43:11So what's your story Aoife?
00:43:13I'm a storyteller and a poet.
00:43:16And a comedian, yeah.
00:43:19Okay, tell me about that then.
00:43:21So I'm a storyteller and I've written a show.
00:43:25It's kind of more like a story.
00:43:26Storytelling mixed with comedy about, yeah, it's called Good Grief.
00:43:31It's about grief and the loss of my mother.
00:43:33So I was trying to mix kind of more sombre.
00:43:36moments with stand-up, trying to do something totally different.
00:43:39So that's why I consider myself more of a storyteller.
00:43:41because I believe in the light and the dark on stage, not just.
00:43:46Tell us about the kind of the journey into performing.
00:43:51It's a long winding journey because
00:43:56I've technically only started my first stand-up gig two years ago.
00:43:59And then I loved it.
00:44:01And I was like, okay, this is comedy.
00:44:02But then I knew that I wanted to honor like the more kind of serious.
00:44:06elements as well.
00:44:07And I went to Amsterdam last year to do storytelling school.
00:44:11Yeah, I know for six months.
00:44:13And then from there, my show kind of came to life.
00:44:16But before that, I hadn't done any performing.
00:44:21for about 15 years, I was doing acting.
00:44:25I started acting when I was.
00:44:26when I was younger.
00:44:27But I didn't do any performing for 15 years.
00:44:28because my mum passed away when I was 23.
00:44:31And then after that, I just sort of, I stopped everything that kind of,
00:44:35I stopped all my dreams.
00:44:36I stopped everything.
00:44:37And it's just the last two years now, I've kind of picked it up.
00:44:41And then I got to call back up again.
00:44:42So what did you do after she died?
00:44:44So.
00:44:45So.
00:44:46We were from Kinvara.
00:44:47So you probably know it.
00:44:48Mm-hm.
00:44:49And my mum moved us there when we were young.
00:44:51because I think she wanted this more hippie progressive enclave.
00:44:56Goat cheese place.
00:44:57Goat cheese place.
00:44:58Exactly.
00:44:59So she was like in there.
00:45:01early 90s.
00:45:02She's from Kilkenny.
00:45:03And my dad's from Tala.
00:45:04And they.
00:45:05Um.
00:45:06They were just like mad hippies.
00:45:07And they were like, okay, we want to raise our kids in a more like progressive community.
00:45:11And they wanted to raise vegetarians.
00:45:12And so there's this like, so they kind of scoured.
00:45:16the whole country in the 90s, obviously looking for somewhere that would accept vegetarians.
00:45:20And that was.
00:45:21Big.
00:45:21Big ask.
00:45:22But.
00:45:23Um.
00:45:24I think I look back now and I'm so grateful to grow up to.
00:45:26of growing up in Kinvara.
00:45:27Because we didn't have much money as a family.
00:45:30Like.
00:45:31My dad left when we were young.
00:45:32You know, we were on welfare.
00:45:33Mom worked as hard as she could with four kids.
00:45:36And then my mom passed away suddenly while I was traveling.
00:45:39I was backpacking around.
00:45:40Um.
00:45:41Um.
00:45:42South America.
00:45:43I was in Bolivia.
00:45:44I was like up in this farm.
00:45:45I hadn't heard from mom in like.
00:45:46two weeks.
00:45:47And.
00:45:48Um.
00:45:49Yeah.
00:45:50She was the only one who had my number.
00:45:51So I remember.
00:45:51I was getting.
00:45:52We were on the bus.
00:45:53And I was on the way to Bolivia.
00:45:54From Argentina.
00:45:55And thank God.
00:45:56they rang me at this point.
00:45:57Because my phone was going to be out of action for like a whole other week.
00:46:00So.
00:46:01When the phone rang.
00:46:02I knew it was mom.
00:46:03Because she was the only one who had my number.
00:46:04It was one of those old burner phones.
00:46:05Like 20.
00:46:062010.
00:46:07So I picked up the phone.
00:46:08I was like.
00:46:09Mommy.
00:46:10And then I heard a man's voice.
00:46:11So I knew.
00:46:12Like something was wrong.
00:46:13And my heart dropped.
00:46:14And I didn't speak.
00:46:16And like my friend.
00:46:17And every.
00:46:18What was crazy.
00:46:19Is that everything kept moving.
00:46:20Like my friend was like flirting with these.
00:46:21English lads behind us.
00:46:22And that was somehow worse than what was happening here on the phone.
00:46:25And then I.
00:46:26I heard him go again.
00:46:27He just said it so quickly.
00:46:28Like your mom's died.
00:46:29We think it's a heart attack.
00:46:30And.
00:46:31And she was super.
00:46:31Healthy.
00:46:32Like she.
00:46:33She's a hippie.
00:46:34She's done yoga.
00:46:35She was eating.
00:46:36Healthy.
00:46:37And.
00:46:36And I actually didn't speak.
00:46:37I just smashed the phone on the ground.
00:46:38And I saw like the battery fly out of the phone.
00:46:40And I.
00:46:41I said to my friend.
00:46:42She's like what happened.
00:46:43And I just said it so deadpan.
00:46:44I was like.
00:46:45And my mom.
00:46:46And my mom's died.
00:46:47And she burst out laughing.
00:46:48Because I think it's that thing.
00:46:49You know you do.
00:46:50When you're so uncomfortable.
00:46:51And.
00:46:52And thank God.
00:46:53Like I was coming into.
00:46:54We were pulling into a stop.
00:46:55Because I just.
00:46:56I didn't really know what to do.
00:46:56And I just sort of threw myself off the bus.
00:46:57And I remember running into the toilet.
00:46:59Of this bus stop.
00:47:00And I grabbed hold of the thing.
00:47:01And I started getting sick.
00:47:02And I.
00:47:03And my best friend.
00:47:04Who's here today actually.
00:47:05Like she.
00:47:06I picked the phone.
00:47:07My friend's phone rang.
00:47:08And she passed it to me.
00:47:09And she was like.
00:47:10You fit.
00:47:11Because you somehow.
00:47:12Believe it's.
00:47:11Not true.
00:47:12They've got it wrong.
00:47:13But when I heard her voice say.
00:47:14Like oh no.
00:47:15We're all here.
00:47:16Yeah.
00:47:17I remember just thinking.
00:47:18How.
00:47:19How am I going to.
00:47:20Make my.
00:47:21Even the journey.
00:47:21Back home.
00:47:22You know.
00:47:23We were in the middle of nowhere.
00:47:24In Argentina.
00:47:25And it was also winter.
00:47:26It was the winter of the big freeze.
00:47:26In 2010.
00:47:27How do you.
00:47:28How do you.
00:47:29How do you.
00:47:30How do you.
00:47:31How do you.
00:47:32How do you.
00:47:33Grieve.
00:47:34In public.
00:47:35Like that.
00:47:36So you've just been told the news annexing you're in an airport.
00:47:41going through stuff when you're on a plane with other people and and it's
00:47:46they're long flights like.
00:47:48Yeah.
00:47:50Did you, did you, did you.
00:47:51Do you, do you tell the air stewards?
00:47:54That's, that's a really good question.
00:47:56It's like people don't think about those pieces because you're wailing like.
00:48:01My body was making sounds that like, I don't think I'll ever recreate again.
00:48:06Cause it's this deep because all of a sudden you forget why you're going home and
00:48:09I might be fine for a second and all.
00:48:11of a sudden it hits me and the sounds I was making, I was so embarrassed about crying.
00:48:15And so when we got.
00:48:16On the air France flight we were in between two people, a mother and father for some
00:48:20reason and the kids were in the front.
00:48:21And I was like, Oh my God sir.
00:48:23I, I'm going to scare everybody because I'm going to be crying so much.
00:48:26And then she spoke to the air stewards and they, the flight was full, but everybody moved.
00:48:31around so that we had a private kind of seat down the back and the air stewards were so, so sweet.
00:48:36So lovely.
00:48:37So I honestly saw in the hardest journey of my life.
00:48:41I saw the best of humanity and when we got to Canvara.
00:48:46We were driving down the last road, the mile to our house, like this little boring and.
00:48:51this part of the journey, I like closed my eyes so tight and it was like dark and it was freezing because.
00:48:56This is the road I used to cycle home to see mom after school and I just like, Oh God, I can't believe I'm driving.
00:49:01I'm down this road and she won't be greeting me at the end.
00:49:04Like she was, we were going back to the wake.
00:49:06But my friend stirred me.
00:49:07They're like, you have to see this and all the farmers and all the local.
00:49:11people who hated that we were vegetarians at the beginning, they put little candles on.
00:49:16the walls of their house and the whole way down was just these candles glistening in the.
00:49:21into the night sky to guide me home.
00:49:23Um.
00:49:26Um.
00:49:27Um.
00:49:28Um.
00:49:29Um.
00:49:30Um.
00:49:31Um.
00:49:32Um.
00:49:33Um.
00:49:34Um.
00:49:35Um.
00:49:36Um.
00:49:37Um.
00:49:38Um.
00:49:39Um.
00:49:40Um.
00:49:41Um.
00:49:42Um.
00:49:43Um.
00:49:44Um.
00:49:45Um.
00:49:46Um.
00:49:47Um.
00:49:48Um.
00:49:49Um.
00:49:50Um.
00:49:51Um.
00:49:52Um.
00:49:53Um.
00:49:54Um.
00:49:55Um.
00:49:31happened to you after the funeral and all that in terms of
00:49:36not so much days but years that you had to pay attention to.
00:49:41That meant you couldn't work at what you wanted to work at.
00:49:46Yeah, I think, I think honestly it was...
00:49:51I think I felt like I didn't...
00:49:54I think to...
00:49:56make sense of grief and to make sense of something that's so shocking.
00:50:00I...
00:50:01started telling myself the story that I deserved this.
00:50:03Because otherwise it's the idea that it's just so...
00:50:06unfair.
00:50:07And you're like, how am I back here?
00:50:09My friends are 23, 24, 24...
00:50:11and they're off, you know, living their life.
00:50:13Travelling and starting their new jobs and I'm...
00:50:16home making lunches for my younger brother in the countryside.
00:50:19And...
00:50:21even after that then, you know, I just...
00:50:23I think I kept myself really small.
00:50:25Go on.
00:50:26So you had to be the...
00:50:27Yeah.
00:50:28You became ma'am like?
00:50:30Kind of, yeah.
00:50:31Like...
00:50:31They didn't want me to do this.
00:50:32Um...
00:50:33But I became kind of the stand-in...
00:50:35like a...
00:50:36I was mothering, I suppose.
00:50:38Um...
00:50:39And I think I needed that role.
00:50:41as well, just to...
00:50:42make myself feel like,
00:50:43I need to do something now.
00:50:44Like, I need to feel like...
00:50:45Mm.
00:50:46have something to do.
00:50:47But our local community was so class, like...
00:50:49we had no money and...
00:50:50And...
00:50:51the...
00:50:52the debt cert takes ages.
00:50:53So...
00:50:54the bills keep coming, like the mortgage repayments.
00:50:56You have to keep paying those until you have an official debt cert.
00:50:58And the debt cert takes like six months.
00:51:00They don't even accept...
00:51:01an interim one.
00:51:02And so we were getting like threatening letters.
00:51:04All...
00:51:05all...
00:51:06like...
00:51:06related to mum and stuff.
00:51:07Saying,
00:51:08Maria Beck,
00:51:09your house will be possessed.
00:51:10And I would call them all saying like...
00:51:11like...
00:51:11she's dead.
00:51:12And they were like,
00:51:13well, we don't have a debt cert.
00:51:14So...
00:51:15and my local...
00:51:16community set up a charity.
00:51:17And...
00:51:18they made sure that all those kind of bills were paid for.
00:51:20So...
00:51:21what...
00:51:21money was coming in?
00:51:22Nothing.
00:51:23Like, we had no money.
00:51:24Because mum...
00:51:25sure, she was...
00:51:26she was so bad with money.
00:51:26And even after she died,
00:51:27we saw everything was maxed out.
00:51:28On credit card.
00:51:29She had this loan, that loan.
00:51:30And so we'd...
00:51:31the only...
00:51:31money like was...
00:51:32money I...
00:51:33was making doing grinds.
00:51:34Like I was teaching Spanish.
00:51:35And...
00:51:36we...
00:51:37that was it.
00:51:38And so...
00:51:39we had no money.
00:51:40And my local community came together.
00:51:41set up a charity.
00:51:42All above...
00:51:43they had like a board and everything that managed the money.
00:51:45And they were like,
00:51:46we're gonna make sure...
00:51:46the boys get to college.
00:51:47And once they're out of college,
00:51:48we'll stop helping.
00:51:49And...
00:51:50they made sure...
00:51:51that those...
00:51:52yeah...
00:51:53they were helped out basically.
00:51:54Where does dad figure in all this?
00:51:56dad...
00:51:58he...
00:51:59we...
00:52:00we've...
00:52:01come...
00:52:02I suppose we were estranged for so long.
00:52:04And...
00:52:05I think that's what...
00:52:06what hurt so much back then was that...
00:52:09he...
00:52:10he was a...
00:52:11he was around like he was in France.
00:52:12He'd had a...
00:52:13a few years later he had...
00:52:14he had another...
00:52:15kid and...
00:52:16and...
00:52:17I understand now.
00:52:18Now that I'm older.
00:52:19And I think I'm closer to the age.
00:52:21that they were when...
00:52:22you know...
00:52:23when it all kind of...
00:52:24went tits up for them.
00:52:25And I think...
00:52:26you just understand...
00:52:27how hard it is...
00:52:28how hard life is.
00:52:30And he...
00:52:31he just wasn't...
00:52:32for whatever reason...
00:52:33he just wasn't able to be...
00:52:34the dad...
00:52:35that...
00:52:36we needed him.
00:52:36to be.
00:52:37He's being that father now...
00:52:38for Lily...
00:52:39for my half-sister.
00:52:41and in a way that's helped me...
00:52:42forgive him.
00:52:43You know?
00:52:44I think he's...
00:52:45he's being a really good dad.
00:52:46now.
00:52:47So...
00:52:48it was...
00:52:49yeah...
00:52:50I look back now...
00:52:51and I was like...
00:52:52I was so angry...
00:52:53and I had no idea...
00:52:54how to be angry...
00:52:55because...
00:52:56there was this...
00:52:57expectation...
00:52:58that you have to be...
00:52:59I felt like...
00:53:00I had to be...
00:53:01strong...
00:53:02and I had to look like...
00:53:03I was strong...
00:53:04and I wanted...
00:53:05I loved when everyone was like...
00:53:06you're dealing with this so well.
00:53:06you're so strong...
00:53:07and it was like a badge of honour...
00:53:08you know...
00:53:09that I didn't break down...
00:53:10and I didn't...
00:53:11you know...
00:53:11take drugs...
00:53:12and I didn't do...
00:53:13like...
00:53:14all these bad things.
00:53:15I...
00:53:16I held it together...
00:53:16so tightly...
00:53:17and...
00:53:18that it was crushing me...
00:53:19on the inside...
00:53:20like...
00:53:21my rib...
00:53:21my rib cages...
00:53:22were crushing...
00:53:23against my heart...
00:53:24because I was just like...
00:53:25everything's fine...
00:53:26I'm not mad...
00:53:26I'm not mad at anybody...
00:53:27that's totally fine...
00:53:28oh my life's fucked up...
00:53:29oh that's grand...
00:53:30erm...
00:53:31I think...
00:53:31it took me a full 12...
00:53:32I'd say 12 years...
00:53:33to really let it...
00:53:34break me.
00:53:36erm...
00:53:37yeah...
00:53:38but I think then through my 20s...
00:53:39do you know...
00:53:40like...
00:53:41it started to...
00:53:41slip...
00:53:42like...
00:53:43I couldn't keep that together...
00:53:44for...
00:53:45the whole time...
00:53:46I did make a lot of mistakes...
00:53:47through my 20s...
00:53:48erm...
00:53:49yeah...
00:53:50I think what people...
00:53:51don't...
00:53:52talk about is...
00:53:53when you're grieving...
00:53:54like I...
00:53:55like I said earlier...
00:53:56you...
00:53:56I think what I...
00:53:58what I talked to myself...
00:53:59how I talked to myself was...
00:54:00you were...
00:54:01a bad person...
00:54:02and so bad things will happen to you...
00:54:04and that's why this makes sense now...
00:54:06so that's why your mom's dead...
00:54:08that's why your dad's not coming back...
00:54:09that's why you don't have an ice-top.
00:54:11a job anymore...
00:54:12because you're a bad person...
00:54:13and...
00:54:14and then in my head I was like...
00:54:15oh...
00:54:16okay...
00:54:17that makes sense...
00:54:16and bad things happen to me...
00:54:17and then I just...
00:54:18that was my...
00:54:19I just resolved that...
00:54:21in my head for so many years...
00:54:22it's...
00:54:23it's such a...
00:54:24strange...
00:54:25yeah...
00:54:26thing...
00:54:26to hear in your own head...
00:54:27isn't it?
00:54:28and you don't know you're saying it...
00:54:29like...
00:54:30that just felt...
00:54:31like my inner...
00:54:32you know...
00:54:33that's just your inner voice...
00:54:34you don't know that that's so...
00:54:35upsetting...
00:54:36and horrible...
00:54:36that's the way to speak to yourself...
00:54:37yeah...
00:54:38and I think that voice then...
00:54:40dictated...
00:54:41kind of...
00:54:42like...
00:54:43a lot of what I did and didn't do...
00:54:44so I...
00:54:45obviously I didn't do...
00:54:46I didn't go for big jobs...
00:54:47I was teaching English part-time...
00:54:49you know...
00:54:50like...
00:54:51as a...
00:54:51foreign language...
00:54:52TEFL...
00:54:53TEFL...
00:54:54so I was doing TEFL...
00:54:55like going from language school to language school...
00:54:56didn't...
00:54:56in Dublin...
00:54:57but I couldn't get out of that...
00:54:58like I couldn't...
00:54:59my friends were like...
00:55:00oh if you like teaching...
00:55:01why don't you get like...
00:55:02a...
00:55:03degree...
00:55:04but I couldn't do anything...
00:55:06I think I didn't want to do anything...
00:55:08that made me really happy...
00:55:10because...
00:55:11I was terrified...
00:55:12that if...
00:55:13if I feel happiness again...
00:55:16it's...
00:55:17it's going to be taken away from me...
00:55:18so I'll live...
00:55:19my life now...
00:55:21with happiness...
00:55:22kind of...
00:55:23inches away...
00:55:24as a protective thing...
00:55:25you know...
00:55:26markets...
00:55:27and...
00:55:28and...
00:55:29too much...
00:55:30and...
00:55:31that means I also...
00:55:32not to celebrate...
00:55:33you...
00:55:34I was maher...
00:55:35you...
00:55:36need to...
00:55:37I wish you...
00:55:39you too much...
00:55:40I wish you...
00:55:41I wish you...
00:55:42that means...
00:55:43you...
00:55:44the same...
00:55:45like...
00:55:46power...
00:55:47your...
00:55:48tell me...
00:55:49actually...
00:55:50the same...
00:55:51the same...
00:55:52whatever...
00:55:53the same...
00:55:54he did...
00:55:55me...
00:55:56for years I was like why me like why did she leave so early and now I've
00:56:01I'm just so grateful that I got the time that I got with her she was a
00:56:06wonderful incredible mother and an incredible woman like all she ever wanted to be with his mother
00:56:11and she was phenomenal at it and I know some people don't even get that they don't even get
00:56:16a year at it I got 23 so I've kind of resolved myself to that
00:56:21I taught about promises that I want to keep to myself
00:56:26and the first one was I'm going to start therapy I'm going to do it every week
00:56:30and even if I don't have
00:56:31money I'm going to stick to it and I think from there it got easier
00:56:36and easier to start saying yes and to myself more but but
00:56:41to treat yourself like somebody you love
00:56:43that's it
00:56:46um are you touring the good grief show now yeah I'm going to be in the
00:56:51olympia uh in april and the town hall theater in galway so yeah going going to a few
00:56:56places with it now um so if people are interested it's ifa done yes good grief yes so you have
00:57:01this colossal story about what we've been
00:57:06talking about yeah um do you start thinking then about god what will the next show be about yeah I'm like
00:57:11who's going to die yeah or
00:57:12I really
00:57:16believe in this show and I'm not just saying it um because it's not like I said it's not just a regular stand-up show and
00:57:21the feedback I'm getting because I I did a mini tour I would say September October yeah and so many people
00:57:26have come up to me afterwards and said it is so nice to see um grief
00:57:31on stage like that and someone some people say that the tears come and they're like I don't
00:57:36know if I'm crying or laughing like it's just and it's cathartic and that's what I want people to feel so I want to
00:57:41take it then I'm like oh I think my show is important and I want to take it to as many
00:57:46places so run with this for as long as it lasts for as long till someone else dies I'm taking this show
00:57:51and the future will take care of itself yeah maybe a show maybe I'd love to write a tv show I think that's
00:57:56where I see maybe yeah maybe wow yeah
00:58:01thanks for talking to me no thank you thank you so much
00:58:06and now ladies and gentlemen I was very fortunate to see
00:58:10this evening
00:58:11this evening's band at the all together now festival last summer and they blew me away
00:58:16and I'm delighted they're on the show they're called Madra Salach and they're performing their debut single
00:58:21blue and gold from the EP
00:58:23it's a hell of an age
00:58:26and I'm glad to see you guys
00:58:31All right.
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