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00:00:15Hello there everybody and you're welcome to another episode of the show.
00:00:20And I hope you enjoy whatever it is that's going to happen here over the next hour or so.
00:00:24To find out who our first guest is let me hand you over to our emcee for the evening.
00:00:28The beautiful Fred Cook.
00:00:30Thank you Tommy.
00:00:31Our first guest is Mr.
00:00:33Jane Seymour.
00:00:38My God.
00:00:43It's a very sweet teenager.
00:00:44What an honor.
00:00:45How are you?
00:00:46This is great.
00:00:47Really good.
00:00:48I'm excited.
00:00:48You look incredible.
00:00:49Well thank you.
00:00:50Are you of an age?
00:00:52Of an age, yes.
00:00:53An age of being alive.
00:00:55You look incredible.
00:00:58Are you still working?
00:01:00I am, yes.
00:01:01I was working yesterday.
00:01:03I've been working here for the last three months on my fifth season.
00:01:08of a show that we shoot here in Dublin.
00:01:10What's that called?
00:01:11It's called Harry Wilde and I play Harry.
00:01:13Harry is Professor Harriet Wilde.
00:01:16She was a fictitious officer.
00:01:18obviously English literature professor from Trinity who quits and becomes a private detective.
00:01:23Hmm.
00:01:24And I've done five seasons now here and then I did another.
00:01:28another show here in the spring called the 12 dates till Christmas.
00:01:32So my.
00:01:33family think I actually live in Ireland now.
00:01:35When did you first.
00:01:37When did you first.
00:01:38start working?
00:01:39First of all.
00:01:40Like I'm.
00:01:41Professionally?
00:01:42Yeah.
00:01:43I've been.
00:01:43I.
00:01:44I have an image of you in the 70s.
00:01:46I'm not sure if that's accurate or not.
00:01:48the 80s or something.
00:01:49Can you.
00:01:50Can you talk me through what those first movies are might have been.
00:01:52Well.
00:01:53First.
00:01:53First of all.
00:01:54My first professional gig.
00:01:55I was 13 years old.
00:01:57I was.
00:01:58a dancer.
00:01:59I was a ballerina.
00:02:00And I.
00:02:01Eventually managed to dance.
00:02:02Um.
00:02:03with the care off.
00:02:04At Covent Garden.
00:02:05And the London festival.
00:02:06Only.
00:02:07Look in the court.
00:02:08and everything.
00:02:09But I went to.
00:02:10A.
00:02:11A.
00:02:12You know.
00:02:13A ballet school.
00:02:14And then I got injured and became an.
00:02:16would be the Oenedan line, which was a BBC show about shipping.
00:02:21Shipping things in the 1870s.
00:02:24And then...
00:02:26And then I got immediately plucked from that and became a Bond girl in James Bond.
00:02:31In Live and Let Die, who's...
00:02:33Roger Moore.
00:02:34Yeah, his first one.
00:02:36Do you...
00:02:37How do you feel about the Bond stuff?
00:02:40Bond?
00:02:41The Bond...
00:02:44That type of work now.
00:02:46How do you feel about it?
00:02:47Well, I mean, at the time, I was probably the only person that...
00:02:51I never tried to be a Bond girl.
00:02:52In fact, I wasn't even available.
00:02:54I was doing the BBC drama and, you know...
00:02:56I was hoping to maybe join the role of Shakespeare and, you know, do lots of serious...
00:03:01work.
00:03:02And...
00:03:03And then I became a Bond girl and...
00:03:06I was referred to by Roger Moore as Baby Bernhardt because I kept thinking it was
00:03:10a very serious...
00:03:11acting role.
00:03:12Yeah.
00:03:13Um...
00:03:14And, of course, it was a Bond...
00:03:15Bond girl, so you're...
00:03:16basically supposed to run three paces...
00:03:18paces behind a man with a gun wearing high...
00:03:21heels and scantily clad.
00:03:23But I was playing a virgin, so I was kind of...
00:03:26a different kind of Bond girl.
00:03:27What does that mean?
00:03:28Well, she was a virgin.
00:03:29She was...
00:03:30The whole story was...
00:03:31that she had these special powers.
00:03:33It was a whole voodoo thing.
00:03:35And so long...
00:03:36because she was a virgin, she could see...
00:03:38see the future.
00:03:39But the minute that she lost her virgin...
00:03:41she was useless.
00:03:42And needless to say, James Bond took advantage of her.
00:03:45And that was the end of that.
00:03:46So, you know, people say you were a Bond girl,
00:03:49like, kind of, whole sex image.
00:03:51And that was the first thing.
00:03:52But not at all.
00:03:53They were actually looking for a virgin at the time.
00:03:55And I think, you know...
00:03:56it was early 70s, and they were thin on the ground.
00:03:59And I was about as close as they could get.
00:04:01So, there you go.
00:04:02It sounds almost like...
00:04:03it was taken from a folk tale or something, doesn't it?
00:04:05That idea.
00:04:06Well, I mean, Ian Fleming...
00:04:07It's still an Ian Fleming story.
00:04:09This was a...
00:04:10Yeah.
00:04:11Um...
00:04:12You...
00:04:13You're...
00:04:14You're so gorgeous.
00:04:15I don't know if this is connected.
00:04:16And because of your accent.
00:04:18You sound kind of...
00:04:19There's a...
00:04:20That...
00:04:21That...
00:04:22The prejudice might be that you're upper class.
00:04:24Or...
00:04:25That class...
00:04:25It doesn't mean the same thing that it does in England.
00:04:28But...
00:04:29You sound like you could...
00:04:30You come from quite a privileged background.
00:04:32No, not at all.
00:04:33Absolutely not at all.
00:04:34And...
00:04:35No.
00:04:36I mean, I speak what they used to call it in England.
00:04:38They used to call it BBC English.
00:04:40Yeah.
00:04:41Um...
00:04:42Which is just standard English.
00:04:43But I play all the accents all the time.
00:04:45I mean, I've played Irish.
00:04:46I'm not going to do it for you now.
00:04:47Because I'm...
00:04:48You know, it has to be a character for me.
00:04:49But...
00:04:50Yeah.
00:04:50I'm not going to do it for Americans.
00:04:51I...
00:04:52When I went to America...
00:04:53When I was...
00:04:54In 1976...
00:04:55I went...
00:04:55I went to America and...
00:04:56And went there to live there permanently.
00:04:58Um...
00:04:59I played Americans.
00:05:00Americans thought...
00:05:00I was American.
00:05:01They had no idea...
00:05:02That I was English.
00:05:03Can you tell me about some of the films you did where...
00:05:05TV stuff that you did in America?
00:05:06In America?
00:05:07Okay.
00:05:08Um...
00:05:09Gosh.
00:05:10East of Eden.
00:05:10I did that.
00:05:11I...
00:05:12And I won a Best Actress for that.
00:05:13Playing Kate in East of Eden.
00:05:14But we did...
00:05:15The whole of Steinbeck's novel.
00:05:16So I played Kate from 13 to 58 whenever she...
00:05:20Died.
00:05:21Um...
00:05:22I did, uh...
00:05:23Obviously Dr. Quinn Madison...
00:05:25Yeah.
00:05:26Uh...
00:05:27Uh...
00:05:28Yeah.
00:05:29Uh...
00:05:30Uh...
00:05:30Uh...
00:05:31So many things.
00:05:32I mean, I played Wallis Simpson and the woman he loved.
00:05:34Um...
00:05:35Um...
00:05:35Uh...
00:05:36Maria Callas in, um...
00:05:37Onassis's Richest Man in the World.
00:05:39Um...
00:05:40Um...
00:05:40I've done a lot of comedy as well.
00:05:42Uh...
00:05:43Wedding Crashes I did.
00:05:44You asked what I did in America.
00:05:45Mm-hmm.
00:05:45Uh...
00:05:46The younger generation would know that.
00:05:47So with...
00:05:48With your Needen line, was there a sense that that...
00:05:50Uh...
00:05:51The...
00:05:52Because back then...
00:05:53Yeah.
00:05:54You know...
00:05:55Um...
00:05:56To be on television was to be famous in a sense because we all...
00:05:58Everybody watched television and there weren't that...
00:06:00Very many channels.
00:06:01Yeah.
00:06:02Um...
00:06:03But did the Bond thing feel like...
00:06:05Oh, now I've really...
00:06:06I'm...
00:06:07I'm...
00:06:08I'm having a different life now.
00:06:10Things have changed.
00:06:11Well...
00:06:12Uh...
00:06:13You know, I never really thought about it that way.
00:06:15I just thought about it as a role, but there was this whole kind of, you know, publicity campaign.
00:06:20You know, face of the 70s or all that kind of stuff.
00:06:23But mercifully...
00:06:24Um...
00:06:25Richard Attenborough became my mentor and he used to say to me very early...
00:06:30And he said, darling, the day you believe in your own publicity, you're dead.
00:06:34And I took...
00:06:35That advice.
00:06:36He also told me, he said, you were given a fine instrument, but now you have to fine tune.
00:06:40In other words, you were given what you were given as a gift, but what you have to do now is put the work...
00:06:45To be able to use it.
00:06:47What...
00:06:48What...
00:06:49What do you think the gift was?
00:06:50I think the gift was that the camera liked me.
00:06:53I think that was, you know...
00:06:55And he was, you know, I was for some reason...
00:06:58Um...
00:06:59Uh...
00:07:00...photo...
00:07:00and that, you know, if I really wanted to be a...
00:07:05I had to make sure that that was the work I really did.
00:07:08OK, so that... So...
00:07:10So I was given that gift.
00:07:12You were given the gift of looking...
00:07:13High cheekbones.
00:07:14Wow.
00:07:15Whatever, yeah.
00:07:16And so then now the work is, when the camera comes to you, are you capable...
00:07:20of surprising?
00:07:21Of surprising, yeah.
00:07:23But I never think...
00:07:25I never think of it that way.
00:07:26I just, you know, each character I play is someone I...
00:07:30I don't...
00:07:31I don't...
00:07:32I've never aspired to fame, I've never thought about...
00:07:35it was never what I wanted.
00:07:37In fact, my ambition was to work in the chorus.
00:07:40in things like pantomime.
00:07:42I was, you know, I was quite happy doing that.
00:07:45I didn't...
00:07:46It never...
00:07:47I never could have ever imagined I've had...
00:07:50or would ever have the life that I have had.
00:07:53And still have.
00:07:55That's what's amazing.
00:07:56Because I've been professionally working as an actress...
00:08:00I mean, I'm almost 75, so if you do the math, that's a lot...
00:08:05that's a lot of years.
00:08:06What do you think an actor has to learn?
00:08:10It has to learn.
00:08:11It has to learn.
00:08:12Mm.
00:08:13Um...
00:08:14Well, the...
00:08:15the camera comes so close into you, I mean, in close-up, that it has...
00:08:20to be real.
00:08:21You just have to be that person.
00:08:24You can't...
00:08:25pretend to be a person.
00:08:26You just have to be it.
00:08:27Whatever it is.
00:08:28So, if you were to ask me about one...
00:08:30in remembrance, where I play Natalie Jastrow, who went through Auschwitz and Theresienstadt
00:08:35and went...
00:08:35went through World War II and was tortured and all of that, I did that for...
00:08:40nine months with Sir John Gielgud.
00:08:42I mean, I have...
00:08:44still haven't...
00:08:45really shed...
00:08:48that experience completely.
00:08:50from...
00:08:51from my spirit.
00:08:52That...
00:08:53that character.
00:08:54You know, if...
00:08:55if I watch it or even talk about it, I'll...
00:08:57I'll...
00:08:58I'll...
00:08:59I'll cry.
00:09:00Because...
00:09:00I...
00:09:01for nine months was Natalie Jastrow and felt...
00:09:05it...
00:09:06very deeply...
00:09:07and felt...
00:09:08that it...
00:09:09it was like...
00:09:10um...
00:09:10a mission, too, that I had to...
00:09:13tell this story.
00:09:15so that...
00:09:16that kind of atrocity that happened in World War II wouldn't happen again.
00:09:20and...
00:09:21you can see it gets...
00:09:22it gets me every time.
00:09:23and...
00:09:24and part of that...
00:09:25is because...
00:09:28they didn't realize it, but I was...
00:09:30completely cast for it.
00:09:31because my mother had survived a Japanese prison of war camp...
00:09:34for three...
00:09:35and a half years in Indonesia.
00:09:36she was a Dutch national living there.
00:09:38and my father, who she met after the war...
00:09:40um...
00:09:41had been in the RAF and he'd opened the gates of Bergen-Belsen.
00:09:45and had lost...
00:09:46a lot of relatives there.
00:09:48and...
00:09:49although nobody would ever talk...
00:09:50about it...
00:09:51or could talk about it...
00:09:53I think the DNA of...
00:09:55that was somehow in me.
00:09:57and...
00:09:58it was almost like...
00:09:59I...
00:10:00I had...
00:10:01to tell this story.
00:10:02and it wasn't about acting.
00:10:04and it wasn't...
00:10:05it wasn't about a film.
00:10:06it was about...
00:10:07um...
00:10:08getting as close as you...
00:10:10ever could get in life...
00:10:11to...
00:10:12something...
00:10:13a terrible experience...
00:10:15that people went through.
00:10:17and...
00:10:18I...
00:10:19to...
00:10:20to top it...
00:10:21to top it off...
00:10:22I...
00:10:23I...
00:10:24I was...
00:10:25surrounded by...
00:10:25actors.
00:10:26Well, no, there weren't actors.
00:10:28There were people that...
00:10:29Branko...
00:10:30who was the first AD on it.
00:10:31He went on to...
00:10:32produce Schindler's List.
00:10:33But at that time...
00:10:34he was...
00:10:35first AD...
00:10:36and he survived Auschwitz...
00:10:37and Teresiasat...
00:10:38and Belston himself...
00:10:39and...
00:10:40and...
00:10:40he had gone to...
00:10:42he'd got hold of all the synagogues...
00:10:44um...
00:10:45in...
00:10:45in Europe and said...
00:10:46if anyone had survived the camps...
00:10:47like I did...
00:10:48he said...
00:10:49you know...
00:10:50would you like to...
00:10:50come and...
00:10:51make sure that...
00:10:52um...
00:10:53that we do this the right way...
00:10:54and so...
00:10:55I...
00:10:55I would be...
00:10:56doing a scene...
00:10:57for example...
00:10:58splitting Micah...
00:10:59in Teresiasat...
00:11:00it's very hard to do.
00:11:01you know...
00:11:02and this is what you're doing today...
00:11:03Jane...
00:11:04you're splitting Micah...
00:11:05What does it mean...
00:11:05I don't have a cloth, but I have...
00:11:07No, no, it's good, it's good.
00:11:08I didn't mean to cry.
00:11:10It's quite soft, if you want to use it.
00:11:12Oh, thank you, that's very kind of you.
00:11:14So, um...
00:11:15I found myself next to this woman,
00:11:19and she's just going like...
00:11:20She's just focused, and she's doing it like a machine.
00:11:24And I realized...
00:11:25That she'd been in the camp.
00:11:28So what he did is he got people who'd been in...
00:11:30in the camps
00:11:31to come and act alongside us.
00:11:35So, I mean, you know, talking about acting...
00:11:40or fame, or, you know, any of that kind of stuff
00:11:43is kind of redundant.
00:11:45For me, I just feel I've had extraordinary experiences
00:11:48where I've been able to put myself...
00:11:50in the emotional and physical environment
00:11:54of something that...
00:11:55that was real, that matters that is told.
00:12:00Authentically.
00:12:01And so, that's...
00:12:03that's what I do for them.
00:12:05What's the kind of relationship...
00:12:10between being able to produce emotion on a set...
00:12:15and the emotional kind of ups...
00:12:20and downs of your home life?
00:12:23And the reason I ask is...
00:12:24I sometimes think that...
00:12:25actors...
00:12:28maybe I don't...
00:12:30kind of...
00:12:31save...
00:12:32all their...
00:12:33empathy...
00:12:34and emotion...
00:12:35personality for the set.
00:12:36Well, no.
00:12:37OK.
00:12:38Not at all.
00:12:39Absolutely not.
00:12:40In fact...
00:12:41I...
00:12:42I...
00:12:43I...
00:12:44had someone once...
00:12:45sort of...
00:12:46said to me that...
00:12:47I was kind of like...
00:12:48like a racehorse.
00:12:49You know, very...
00:12:50I...
00:12:51I...
00:12:52I...
00:12:53I feel...
00:12:54I feel things very deeply.
00:12:55I can...
00:12:55sense...
00:12:56you know, when somebody's in pain...
00:12:58or somebody's got something that's not right.
00:13:00I...
00:13:01I...
00:13:02I'm very empathetic.
00:13:03I get it...
00:13:04from people.
00:13:05I think if I wasn't an actor, I probably would...
00:13:05you know...
00:13:06maybe...
00:13:07been a psychologist or something like that.
00:13:09Because I feel it.
00:13:10I feel...
00:13:11stuff.
00:13:12I...
00:13:13You know, I've also had the privilege of dying.
00:13:15It's a privilege.
00:13:18I...
00:13:19It's a privilege.
00:13:20I...
00:13:20I had...
00:13:21I had a bronchitis.
00:13:23I was playing Maria Callas.
00:13:24They...
00:13:25You know...
00:13:25needed me to work on Monday.
00:13:26I was sick on Saturday.
00:13:27They decided to shoot me up with an antibody...
00:13:30antibiotic.
00:13:31They missed...
00:13:32The guy missed...
00:13:33the muscle and hit a vein on...
00:13:35an artery.
00:13:36And I had full anaphylactic shock.
00:13:37Which means...
00:13:38whole...
00:13:39everything...
00:13:40shuts down.
00:13:41I left my body.
00:13:42Saw the white light.
00:13:43Had a...
00:13:45vision of...
00:13:46was able to have a view of...
00:13:47of me lying there,
00:13:49half-naked with a...
00:13:50guy screaming and yelling for an ambulance...
00:13:52trying to resuscitate me.
00:13:53Which he...
00:13:54at that time couldn't.
00:13:55And very calmly...
00:13:56I'm watching all of this going...
00:13:57Oh, that's curious.
00:13:58Because, you know, that's me.
00:13:59But I'm me.
00:14:00But that looks...
00:14:01like me.
00:14:02And no fear.
00:14:03No pain.
00:14:04No...
00:14:05no trauma.
00:14:06No attachment to any of it.
00:14:08And this amazing white light.
00:14:10It's like...
00:14:11very beckoning.
00:14:12And I remember kind of looking down...
00:14:14and going, no I...
00:14:15I want...
00:14:16I want to get back in that body.
00:14:17And of course they shot me up with...
00:14:19whatever...
00:14:20cortisone, adrenaline, whatever.
00:14:21And I came back and got to tell the tale.
00:14:23The only reason I'm telling this story is...
00:14:25that...
00:14:28my...
00:14:29perspective...
00:14:30perspective on life...
00:14:31is...
00:14:32very similar to other people I know...
00:14:33who've been through that and survived.
00:14:35Which...
00:14:35now is it.
00:14:36It's right now.
00:14:37This moment.
00:14:38Here with you.
00:14:39This is it.
00:14:40not five minutes ago...
00:14:42and not five minutes from now.
00:14:44And...
00:14:45I live in a...
00:14:48in a state of extraordinary gratitude.
00:14:50for being...
00:14:51in life.
00:14:52and having life.
00:14:53And I don't want to waste a minute...
00:14:55of it.
00:14:56And I...
00:14:57I remember...
00:14:58when I came back in my body...
00:14:59I remember...
00:15:00not being...
00:15:00religious remotely.
00:15:01It was never raised in a religion.
00:15:03But I do believe...
00:15:04there's something greater than us.
00:15:05and I remember thinking...
00:15:08this body is like a car.
00:15:09It's a vehicle.
00:15:10because...
00:15:11I left it...
00:15:12that vehicle.
00:15:13But I...
00:15:14then got back in the vehicle.
00:15:15So...
00:15:15I better take care of it.
00:15:16So...
00:15:17I do.
00:15:18I take care of my body.
00:15:19I mean...
00:15:20I'll eat properly.
00:15:21and...
00:15:22you know...
00:15:23try and be sensible about things.
00:15:24Because I...
00:15:25I want it to...
00:15:25and be as comfortable as possible...
00:15:26for as long as possible.
00:15:27But I also thought about...
00:15:29the fact that...
00:15:30the only thing you take with you...
00:15:31when you die...
00:15:32is the love you've shared...
00:15:33in your life...
00:15:34and the difference...
00:15:35you've made.
00:15:36And so life becomes really simple.
00:15:38Really simple.
00:15:39You just...
00:15:40if you can help other people...
00:15:45then you do.
00:15:46Tell me about the...
00:15:47that moment of dying...
00:15:49again...
00:15:50and I'm curious about...
00:15:52the...
00:15:54the...
00:15:55the sense of self you had when you
00:16:00were suspended. Can you describe that?
00:16:05And who do you think it was that was talking?
00:16:09Who was saying?
00:16:10I want to go back.
00:16:12Oh, it's me. Me that wanted to go back.
00:16:15I remember very clearly. I was not thinking about who I was married to at the time.
00:16:20I was thinking about I wanted to raise my children. So I was thinking about
00:16:25my children. I was not ready to leave them and not finish raising them. And I
00:16:30also felt I wanted to make a difference. I felt I wanted to do something.
00:16:35Make a difference in the world somehow. I didn't know how, but that's what I wanted to do.
00:16:40So there was thought. Yes. Thought was present. There was thought. Definitely.
00:16:45Thought was present. Oh my gosh. And amazing too. Like
00:16:50Now, if I'm ever in a room or in a hospital or somewhere and someone's passed, I actually look.
00:16:55And I talked to them in the corner of the room because I know that's where they are.
00:17:00I mean, not where they are, but that's where I was. So.
00:17:05So I will. When the spirit leaves the body, it's not.
00:17:10It's not in the body anymore. It's somewhere else, but the spirit or whatever.
00:17:15You want to call it is was me is me.
00:17:20I'm currently, you know, got this thing. I'm attached to this to this body.
00:17:25But I was as much me when I was out of my body as I am.
00:17:30Right now sitting here with you.
00:17:33Did you feel like you had a choice?
00:17:35Yes, definitely had a choice. Hundred percent. Hundred percent.
00:17:40Yeah.
00:17:41It's funny, isn't it? It's kind of like that you could.
00:17:45I could have just I could have just kept going for the light.
00:17:48Yeah, I could have.
00:17:50But I think, you know, that happens, you know, that happens soon enough.
00:17:54I mean, I've.
00:17:55You know, when you're a certain age, you kind of look around and.
00:18:00You you don't take anything for granted.
00:18:03You don't take a minute of your life for granted.
00:18:05I mean, why would you not choose life?
00:18:10Unless you chose that life was so painful that you didn't want it anymore.
00:18:14But.
00:18:15Yeah.
00:18:15That.
00:18:16that's the saddest thing.
00:18:17That's the saddest thing in the world, really.
00:18:19Yeah.
00:18:20You know, I'm now working a great deal with our Open Hearts Foundation.
00:18:25With mental health, which I think is one of the...
00:18:30most important elements of life, is helping people who don't feel.
00:18:35That life is worth living, and who have such torture.
00:18:40And I think through the arts, you know, you can really help a lot of those people.
00:18:45And so I'm really... that is very much, you know, my walk...
00:18:50what can I uniquely do now in my life?
00:18:53And so that is a priority for me.
00:18:55That's something I'm working with at the moment.
00:18:58Are you very self-reliant?
00:19:00Self-reliant.
00:19:01Self-reliant.
00:19:02Yeah, I mean, I've been taking...
00:19:05taking care of myself my whole life.
00:19:07I would say also I'm resilient because I've had a lot of...
00:19:10you know, bumps and knocks and things that were not fun.
00:19:14And...
00:19:15you kind of forgive yourself and others and you move forward.
00:19:18Keep going.
00:19:20So, were you betrayed?
00:19:21Oh, yeah.
00:19:22I mean, hasn't everyone been betrayed?
00:19:24Yeah, yeah.
00:19:25Yes, I think...
00:19:25I think that's the thing I like the least in life.
00:19:28I have very...
00:19:30a very bad, um...
00:19:32kind of feeling about betrayal.
00:19:34Betrayal is the hardest.
00:19:35one for me.
00:19:36Because I trust.
00:19:37I'm open.
00:19:38I love.
00:19:39I...
00:19:40I give.
00:19:41So...
00:19:42Betrayal is very hard for me to take.
00:19:45Do you know how to have a good time?
00:19:48Definitely.
00:19:49Definitely.
00:19:50And...
00:19:50I don't have to be inebriated to have a good time.
00:19:52I...
00:19:53I am...
00:19:54I am the queen of the zero-zero.
00:19:55at the moment.
00:19:56I just...
00:19:57only because I'm working.
00:19:58I love wine.
00:19:59I love all kinds of things.
00:20:00But...
00:20:00definitely know how to have a good time.
00:20:02I'm a dancer at heart.
00:20:03So you put some music on.
00:20:04I'm dancing.
00:20:05That's...
00:20:06dancing.
00:20:07Painting.
00:20:08Um...
00:20:09I...
00:20:10I actually, honestly...
00:20:10feel that I'm...
00:20:11I'm...
00:20:12at my best now in my 70s.
00:20:13Mmm.
00:20:14That's...
00:20:15There's this amazing freedom in a way.
00:20:17It's...
00:20:18You have a lot...
00:20:19You've gone through...
00:20:20And...
00:20:21I wouldn't...
00:20:22I wouldn't be who I am.
00:20:25today if I hadn't been through the pain and the stuff that I've been through.
00:20:30and the highs that I've been through in my life.
00:20:33I just wouldn't be me.
00:20:34And...
00:20:35And...
00:20:36Being me...
00:20:37Is...
00:20:39...
00:20:40That's...
00:20:41That's all I know.
00:20:42I mean...
00:20:43That's...
00:20:44That's a value.
00:20:45Thank you very much.
00:20:49Thank you very much.
00:20:50for talking to me Jane.
00:20:51It's...
00:20:52It's...
00:20:53It's...
00:20:54It's...
00:20:55It's been a pleasure.
00:20:59Well...
00:21:00Wow.
00:21:14Welcome back to the...
00:21:15Second half, everybody.
00:21:16Freddie, who's next?
00:21:18Tommy.
00:21:19Our next guest is...
00:21:20Celine Humber.
00:21:29Please.
00:21:31Hello.
00:21:32Hello.
00:21:33Hello.
00:21:34Hello.
00:21:35Hello.
00:21:36Hello.
00:21:37Hello.
00:21:38Hello.
00:21:39Hello.
00:21:45Hi.
00:21:46Nice to meet you.
00:21:47Oh...
00:21:48Liberté!
00:21:49Liberté, chérie!
00:21:50I learned that from a Leonard Cohen bootleg.
00:21:53Oh, very good.
00:21:55So, what do you do?
00:21:57How do you pronounce your name?
00:21:58Soline.
00:21:59Perfect.
00:22:00Yes.
00:22:01What do you do?
00:22:02What do I do?
00:22:05Some would say I call .
00:22:05How?
00:22:06Well, I've been described as an age.
00:22:10The legend of the impossible.
00:22:13That doesn't enlighten you.
00:22:15No.
00:22:16I'm a woman with a vocation to the priesthood in the Catholic Church.
00:22:20And I've had that calling for 50 years.
00:22:25And for 50 years, I've been vocal about it.
00:22:30So, an agent of the impossible causing trouble.
00:22:33I suppose that sums it up.
00:22:35Can you tell me a little bit about your dealings with the Catholic Church?
00:22:40Well, who are the actual Catholic Church?
00:22:44I would say .
00:22:45I will say that the people, including myself, are the Catholic Church.
00:22:50The Church of the People.
00:22:51The Church of the People.
00:22:52The Church of the People.
00:22:55A lot of the people now.
00:22:56I mean, I've been very vocal about my sense of vocation to priesthood for 50 years.
00:23:00Now, and there are a lot of other women like that.
00:23:04Gradually, I would say .
00:23:05a lot of the Catholic people are on board.
00:23:09And in fact .
00:23:10I wonder why not women?
00:23:13Sure.
00:23:14Now, at the Institute .
00:23:15So, at the institutional level, the official and the leadership, the official leadership,
00:23:19yes.
00:23:20there is a closed door.
00:23:22And the door has remained closed.
00:23:25So, unfortunately .
00:23:26To this day.
00:23:27So, that's why I'm still
00:23:29still
00:23:30.
00:23:30still knocking at the door and saying hello.
00:23:33Do you say mass?
00:23:35I celebrate Eucharist, I've celebrated Eucharist and it was made public, yes.
00:23:40The early Christian called it breaking.
00:23:45Bread, breaking the bread in their house.
00:23:47So I have presided at Eucharist, yes.
00:23:50So where have you celebrated mass?
00:23:54I would have to say
00:23:55celebrated Eucharist at home.
00:23:59So I've, you know, the people
00:24:00in people's homes and sometimes in rooms.
00:24:05Hotel rooms or wherever, other places, yes.
00:24:08Obviously the official...
00:24:10The churches are closed, yes.
00:24:13The Catholic churches are closed.
00:24:15Have they gotten in contact with you?
00:24:18Who?
00:24:18The official church.
00:24:20No, because the attitude of the official...
00:24:25Church is that we don't exist.
00:24:28There's no such thing as a woman with a...
00:24:30calling to priesthood.
00:24:32That has been the official...
00:24:35Attitude.
00:24:35Still to this day, one of the things I've wanted and tried...
00:24:40for 35 years was to meet the Pope.
00:24:45Because I felt the Pope needed to know
00:24:47that women had calling to priesthood.
00:24:50And...
00:24:50Now, that has never happened.
00:24:55And I know also women also have asked and tried.
00:25:00Because there is an official teaching that...
00:25:05It's the will of God forever that women...
00:25:10are not called to priesthood.
00:25:12So, as I said, there is nothing to hear,
00:25:13nothing to listen, nothing to see.
00:25:15Why do you think that they think that?
00:25:19I don't know.
00:25:20I suppose it's disturbing.
00:25:23It's very disturbing.
00:25:24It disturbs...
00:25:25It disturbs several centuries over millennium.
00:25:30Yeah, perhaps even close to two millennium of...
00:25:35So, I suppose a patriarchal...
00:25:40understanding of God and of relationship of women...
00:25:45And while we do say that God is neither male nor female...
00:25:50God is beyond gender, we have functioned with a very strong male...
00:25:55image of God.
00:25:56And of course, all the language...
00:25:57the official language for God is male.
00:25:59Yeah.
00:26:00Male, male, strong man.
00:26:02So...
00:26:03I guess...
00:26:04One of the things that's cur...
00:26:05What's curious is that...
00:26:06I think for a lot of people, they'd wonder...
00:26:10why the attraction towards the Catholic Church...
00:26:13which seems like an organisation...
00:26:15so full of...
00:26:17blunder...
00:26:19and...
00:26:20power...
00:26:21and corruption...
00:26:22and of course, there are great people...
00:26:25and great intentions...
00:26:26as well...
00:26:27but...
00:26:28it's such a...
00:26:29it seems to be a...
00:26:30done deal...
00:26:31it seems...
00:26:32the adventure of the Catholic Church...
00:26:33seems to be over.
00:26:35Erm...
00:26:36why the attraction towards...
00:26:39why not set up your own...
00:26:40church...
00:26:41you know...
00:26:42why not...
00:26:43follow Christ...
00:26:44out of...
00:26:45Catholicism?
00:26:46Well, I mean...
00:26:47I've had a lot of time...
00:26:48to think about it...
00:26:49and...
00:26:50I...
00:26:51I can't say that...
00:26:52I haven't been tempted by it...
00:26:53over such a long journey...
00:26:54I mean...
00:26:55you know...
00:26:55over 50 years...
00:26:56really...
00:26:57erm...
00:26:58and...
00:26:59ultimately...
00:27:00I have...
00:27:00remained within...
00:27:01erm...
00:27:02I...
00:27:03suppose...
00:27:04every human...
00:27:05organisation...
00:27:08will carry that...
00:27:09level of...
00:27:10falling...
00:27:15short...
00:27:16of...
00:27:17what...
00:27:18is meant to be...
00:27:19I would have...
00:27:20I mean...
00:27:21if I started my own church...
00:27:22I would have no guarantees...
00:27:23that I wouldn't end up...
00:27:24with sales...
00:27:25corruption...
00:27:26or power...
00:27:27or whatever...
00:27:28erm...
00:27:29I suppose...
00:27:30people...
00:27:30might be attracted...
00:27:31to you...
00:27:32as an individual...
00:27:33as a...
00:27:34a...
00:27:35priest...
00:27:36and then...
00:27:37they kind of go...
00:27:38oh...
00:27:39hang on...
00:27:39she's connected...
00:27:40to the Catholic Church...
00:27:40I actually want nothing...
00:27:41to do with them...
00:27:42I like her...
00:27:43but I want nothing...
00:27:44to do with the church...
00:27:45yeah...
00:27:45well...
00:27:46I can understand that...
00:27:47but for me...
00:27:48as it happens...
00:27:49I was baptised...
00:27:50in the Catholic Church...
00:27:50and...
00:27:51I have remained...
00:27:52I've...
00:27:53discerned...
00:27:54you know...
00:27:55as I say...
00:27:56I've been tempted...
00:27:57over the years...
00:27:58to go elsewhere...
00:27:59to do something else...
00:28:00and...
00:28:01but...
00:28:02I've discerned...
00:28:03that my own path...
00:28:05is within...
00:28:06the Catholic Church...
00:28:07that's where it's at...
00:28:09so...
00:28:10but I can understand...
00:28:11fully...
00:28:12and...
00:28:13I'm certainly not...
00:28:14going to these...
00:28:15I disagree with you...
00:28:16in terms of corruption...
00:28:17and...
00:28:18yeah...
00:28:19a lot of...
00:28:20things have been...
00:28:21and as a woman...
00:28:22I would know...
00:28:23first-hand...
00:28:24very abusive...
00:28:25and I've not...
00:28:25been silent...
00:28:26about the level...
00:28:27of abuse...
00:28:28eh...
00:28:30spiritual abuse...
00:28:31as well...
00:28:32and as a woman...
00:28:33I've been at the...
00:28:34receiving end of it...
00:28:35so I know...
00:28:35exactly...
00:28:36eh...
00:28:37as I know...
00:28:38it is...
00:28:39it can be very...
00:28:40and...
00:28:42eh...
00:28:45I...
00:28:46I...
00:28:47I...
00:28:48I...
00:28:49I've been...
00:28:50betrayed...
00:28:51the founder...
00:28:52the one at the source...
00:28:53Jesus...
00:28:54full of betrayal...
00:28:55how do you...
00:28:58practice...
00:28:59as...
00:29:00a...
00:29:00priest...
00:29:01like there's a...
00:29:02the desire...
00:29:03to be a priest...
00:29:04which is never...
00:29:05going to be...
00:29:05acknowledged...
00:29:06well...
00:29:07by the Catholic Church...
00:29:08you...
00:29:09you sound like...
00:29:10the authority...
00:29:10when you say...
00:29:11never...
00:29:12if I was gambling...
00:29:13if I was gambling...
00:29:14if I was gambling...
00:29:15you see...
00:29:16you're in there...
00:29:17you are now...
00:29:18well you said earlier on...
00:29:19you said earlier on...
00:29:20the...
00:29:21that's what they say...
00:29:22I don't say that...
00:29:23I don't say that...
00:29:24I don't say that...
00:29:25I wouldn't say never...
00:29:26with God...
00:29:27nothing is impossible...
00:29:30no...
00:29:31but...
00:29:32some things are unlikely...
00:29:33well...
00:29:34that's very different...
00:29:35people say never...
00:29:36when we lived...
00:29:37long enough...
00:29:38to see unlikely...
00:29:39things come to...
00:29:40So...
00:29:41for the unlikely.
00:29:44What do you do?
00:29:46I'm not waiting for the unlikely.
00:29:51I am acting also, you see, waiting can be a passive verb.
00:29:56But I'm not waiting passively.
00:29:59It's not waiting for Godot.
00:30:01You know?
00:30:02Yeah.
00:30:03Which seems to be what you're saying, no.
00:30:06God is gestating.
00:30:08God is happening.
00:30:12It's happening.
00:30:13It's coming to birth.
00:30:16It's happening.
00:30:17It's in the process.
00:30:18And people like me, agent of the...
00:30:21It's impossible.
00:30:22Are part of gestating that new...
00:30:26Dimension in the Catholic Church.
00:30:29Bringing something new.
00:30:31In the Church.
00:30:32So what do you do all day?
00:30:34Well...
00:30:37Do you want to know?
00:30:38Yeah.
00:30:39It's very mundane.
00:30:40A lot of it is...
00:30:41cleaning, cooking, answering emails, visiting friends...
00:30:46Talking.
00:30:47I minister as a spiritual director, spiritual accompanist of people.
00:30:51People come and share their own spiritual journey.
00:30:54That's more...
00:30:55The more formal, official...
00:30:56Part of it.
00:30:57I read.
00:30:58I travel.
00:30:59I talk.
00:31:01I have...
00:31:02I have...
00:31:03I have grown-up children.
00:31:04I have grandchildren.
00:31:05Some...
00:31:06Minds.
00:31:07Grandchildren.
00:31:08One day afternoons.
00:31:09I...
00:31:10Do some gardening.
00:31:11music
00:31:11I love as well.
00:31:13I pray, of course, like a lot of people.
00:31:16I pray as well, I study as well.
00:31:21I've written a book, so that took a lot of time.
00:31:24Nearly five years of my life.
00:31:26Start to finish, so that's it, but life, but...
00:31:31You know, God is in the bits and pieces.
00:31:36All of life, really.
00:31:39There isn't a sacred...
00:31:41A sacred out there, and then a profane.
00:31:44Every day can be...
00:31:46Lived in the presence of the divine.
00:31:50Do you go...
00:31:51I go sometimes, but not someday.
00:31:56Usually, we celebrate with other people.
00:31:58No, but do you go...
00:31:59Like, would you go to a mass said by a male priest?
00:32:01Do you go, like, an official...
00:32:03I have, but not every Sunday, no.
00:32:06So do you...
00:32:06But I did for a very long time in my life.
00:32:09I can tell you, I did.
00:32:11So do you campaign, then?
00:32:13Is it a process of campaign?
00:32:14Yes, I've been very active, and I had...
00:32:16I started a group in the early 90s,
00:32:19Brothers and Sisters in Christ, for the...
00:32:21Coordination of Women.
00:32:22And in the early 90s, and we had...
00:32:26Collected petitions, which was hard work at the time,
00:32:29because it was paper, pen on paper.
00:32:31It's hard to remember, pen on paper.
00:32:34And we had got over 10,000.
00:32:36Signatures, yeah, very quickly.
00:32:38But, of course, the bishops,
00:32:40Colonel Daly would...
00:32:41And receive them, and then I sent them
00:32:44to all the bishops, and that was it.
00:32:46Do you live in Ireland?
00:32:48Oh, I do.
00:32:49I've been living here.
00:32:50I'm sorry I still have a...
00:32:51Such a strong accent.
00:32:53I thought you were from Cork, actually.
00:32:56I would have a nicer accent if I was from Cork.
00:33:00I have been living...
00:33:01I've been living here full-time since 1973.
00:33:06Now, prehistory for a lot of you and people.
00:33:11Yeah, yeah.
00:33:11Here to stay as well.
00:33:14I'm sorry, the Irish bishops...
00:33:16I really felt, feel it would be better
00:33:18if I'd stayed in France.
00:33:19That's wonderful.
00:33:20Yes.
00:33:20Now, you know...
00:33:21I got a lot of abuse over the years,
00:33:23and anonymous letters, and threats, and everything.
00:33:26But some...
00:33:27I mean, they were awful.
00:33:29But some were very funny, you know,
00:33:30dimensions were...
00:33:31It was very funny because there was one in particular
00:33:35who would offer to pay.
00:33:36to pay me to go back to France, myself and my family.
00:33:41My Irish husband and my Irish children, but yes.
00:33:44Needless to say, they didn't send the money.
00:33:46Yes, no, I would have heard a lot to go back to France.
00:33:51With your pagan ideas, and that was the mildest.
00:33:55Others, I couldn't really...
00:33:56I couldn't repeat what was said, really.
00:33:58Have you had much opposition from devout winners?
00:34:01Women in...
00:34:03You're trying to be a priest.
00:34:06Yes, I've had much opposition from devout men and devout women.
00:34:10Yes, yes, yes.
00:34:11Is there a different flavour to the antagonism from the...
00:34:16Yes, I can say.
00:34:21Unfortunately, from the male side, very often...
00:34:26I would have received threats of sexual violence.
00:34:30Thinking that...
00:34:31Yes, that would sort you out.
00:34:36Yes, I suppose that's, yeah.
00:34:41Yeah, so that they would be...
00:34:45Not from every...
00:34:46But there would be an aspect, a very violent aspect to it.
00:34:51And as I said, ultimately, I suppose raping a woman is a way of putting up...
00:34:56Back into a place, and that would have been the threats.
00:35:01But as I said...
00:35:01Unfortunately, that's quite common.
00:35:03As I found out, I mean, I had to discover...
00:35:06That was like 30 years ago, which took me by surprise then.
00:35:11But then on the female side of it, which I wasn't so...
00:35:16Well, I wasn't prepared for any of it, really.
00:35:19But it would have been...
00:35:20I would have realised...
00:35:21A lot of women would have internalised the patriarchal...
00:35:27View, which somehow...
00:35:28Which somehow...
00:35:29The male...
00:35:31I was going to say he's God, to some extent, the male, only the male can.
00:35:36You know, we're touching at the level of symbolism when we're talking about priesthood.
00:35:41So it's not so much what the priest does, preaching, but it's also.
00:35:46The priest represents in people's minds.
00:35:49And if you have a very strong male image of God.
00:35:51The female obviously doesn't go there.
00:35:56Of women, unfortunately, would have internalized.
00:36:01A sense of unworthiness.
00:36:06And I've heard that I am not worthy as a woman.
00:36:08I wouldn't be worthy.
00:36:10And therefore, who do you?
00:36:11Who you think you are, you could, you know, that is it.
00:36:15So.
00:36:16It is challenging.
00:36:18I realize it's challenging both for men and for women.
00:36:21And a lot of men, in fairness, have been very supportive.
00:36:25My own husband has been very supportive.
00:36:26A priest who was chaplain to me in Trinity College when I first got the call.
00:36:31A priest who was chaplain, you know, 50 years ago has been very supportive.
00:36:35Cost him a lot, obviously.
00:36:36And others have been as well.
00:36:39So that's where it's at.
00:36:41But it is disturbing.
00:36:44But as I've said to the bishops of men.
00:36:46I said, well, if that disturbs you, I was the first one disturbed by it.
00:36:50I didn't go looking for it.
00:36:51But I've said yes to it.
00:36:54I was free to say no.
00:36:56I didn't call myself, but I heard a call and I said yes.
00:37:01And you're confident in the call.
00:37:06Yes, I am.
00:37:08I trust.
00:37:09I trust in the one who has called me.
00:37:11So that's ultimately...
00:37:16or in a sense, that calling happens within you, in a sense.
00:37:21Yes, it happened within me, but as I say, it came from beyond.
00:37:26But it came within me, but it came from beyond me.
00:37:31It's not, I'm not the origin of that call.
00:37:34It came would be...
00:37:36I heard it within me, but it came from beyond me.
00:37:41And that's why I was very disturbed and I didn't know at the time how to respond.
00:37:46And why did you not become a nun?
00:37:48LAUGHTER
00:37:51Well, yes, because it's a different calling.
00:37:56I'm laughing because every woman, like me, including the...
00:38:01people, noncio, I met once and said, why don't you become a nun?
00:38:05That sorts it out, you know.
00:38:06Yes, because it's a different calling.
00:38:09Men who are religious.
00:38:11Men who are monks or, you know, also can have a calling too.
00:38:16There's a priesthood as well.
00:38:18There are separate callings.
00:38:19So what's the difference between a nun and a priest?
00:38:21Well, what's the difference between a monk and a priest?
00:38:24A monk could be, I guess,
00:38:26solitary and live within a monastery.
00:38:31And pray and work within the confines of that.
00:38:34And I guess none could do the same.
00:38:36Exactly.
00:38:37And a priest is out and about having the crack.
00:38:39Yes.
00:38:41Well, there you are now.
00:38:44Well, that being said, I think there's more crack in Mono.
00:38:46And I think there's more mysteries than we think.
00:38:49I have friends who are religious.
00:38:52A lot of friends are religious sisters.
00:38:54And may I say also that sisters...
00:38:56...are not all contemplative...
00:38:58Of course, I know.
00:38:59...monastery, as I say.
00:39:01I have some...
00:39:01...of my friends, missionary sisters,
00:39:03...who have been on the front line in very difficult...
00:39:06...the places, as we know.
00:39:08But there are different vocations.
00:39:10And as I say, there are many religious...
00:39:11...sisters who also have a sense of calling to priesthood.
00:39:14And I would hope that...
00:39:16...if you became a priest, you would have a male housekeeper.
00:39:21Oh...
00:39:21I'd say my husband will laugh and say...
00:39:24...well, you already have one.
00:39:26Well, I think there's a detail.
00:39:31Yes, we can deal with...
00:39:33We can get into.
00:39:34Um...
00:39:35Yes.
00:39:36I wouldn't worry about that too much.
00:39:38No.
00:39:41How...
00:39:41How can we...
00:39:42...encourage this...
00:39:44...happening?
00:39:46Well, you know, I think...
00:39:51...I was...
00:39:51...because they're telling the truth.
00:39:53Perhaps that's when we have a big shortage in the...
00:39:56...catholic church.
00:39:59And we need courage.
00:40:00We need two things.
00:40:01...in the catholic church.
00:40:02And why...
00:40:03...and more widely...
00:40:04...in society and in...
00:40:06...in the world...
00:40:08...having the courage.
00:40:11To face the truth.
00:40:15To tell the truth.
00:40:16To listen to the truth.
00:40:19To listen to the truth.
00:40:21And then to respond.
00:40:25I think that...
00:40:26...that's what we need.
00:40:28A lot of it.
00:40:31Courage.
00:40:31Truth-telling.
00:40:33Courageous.
00:40:34Truth-listening.
00:40:36Truth-telling.
00:40:38And then responding.
00:40:40In freedom.
00:40:46Thank you very much for coming on to the show
00:40:48and talking to me.
00:40:50Go ra maugat.
00:40:51You nailed it.
00:40:55My cool.
00:40:56Oh, that's so nice.
00:41:00Irish in a French accent.
00:41:01I'm sorry.
00:41:04That was perfect.
00:41:05Probably distorts.
00:41:06I'm supporting two languages.
00:41:21Welcome back to the third half, everybody.
00:41:27Freddie, who's next?
00:41:28Tommy.
00:41:29Our next guest is Mr.
00:41:31Andreas de Stack.
00:41:36How are you?
00:41:46You're the rascals.
00:41:47This is it, yeah.
00:41:49How are you?
00:41:50I'm good.
00:41:51You think, yeah, fine.
00:41:53It's nice.
00:41:55A little bit nervous.
00:41:56You know, sometimes the nerves are good, I suppose.
00:41:58So for those, I know of you as a...
00:42:01a performer and a storyteller and a musician,
00:42:04just in case people wouldn't know you.
00:42:06How is the...
00:42:06storytelling thing going for you?
00:42:09It's great.
00:42:09It's picking up and it's...
00:42:11How do you describe it?
00:42:11For a while, I was kind of saying, you know...
00:42:16Sometimes I say bardic storytelling
00:42:18because I use the music in it a bit.
00:42:20But it's...
00:42:21It's been great the last year or two,
00:42:23you know, yourself and Dr. Martin Shaw
00:42:24have brought a bit of attention to it
00:42:26and there's a few...
00:42:26other people doing it and, you know,
00:42:28there's a lot of podcasts
00:42:29and people doing books and stuff.
00:42:31So it's...
00:42:31It's kind of coming into the...
00:42:35People are more accepting of their own...
00:42:36understanding of us.
00:42:37Why are you doing it?
00:42:38Storytelling?
00:42:39Yeah, well...
00:42:40It kind of happened finally.
00:42:41Naturally, you know.
00:42:43Like, you know,
00:42:43all Irish people are storytellers
00:42:45so I was always doing a bit.
00:42:47In casual...
00:42:48You know, catching up with the lads
00:42:49and having to crack
00:42:50and when we'd be singing...
00:42:51I'd say,
00:42:51Go on, Stax.
00:42:52Do a bit of an old story or whatever.
00:42:53So there was always that
00:42:54and then I suppose I had...
00:42:56the big bundle of stories
00:42:57when I came home from Australia
00:42:58that became the show
00:42:59around the world in 80 quid.
00:43:01So I had that for a while
00:43:02and I remember then my father
00:43:04saw the show in glory and in it.
00:43:06I was at a festival called Chord in Ennis.
00:43:10So that was kind of special.
00:43:11emotional moment for me
00:43:12because he was a storyteller
00:43:13and a writer.
00:43:14But my father was
00:43:15a writer-storyteller.
00:43:16He wrote so many stories
00:43:18about Ennis time
00:43:19and the west of Ireland
00:43:20and...
00:43:21and about the Irish in America
00:43:22because he lived in San Francisco.
00:43:24And I thought when my time would come
00:43:25I'd sit down and...
00:43:26type up the stories
00:43:27but I just could never get down
00:43:30on the laptop.
00:43:31I just...
00:43:31have this anxiety in the body
00:43:33that just...
00:43:33it's like school or homework,
00:43:34you know?
00:43:36So that was going on for a while
00:43:38and I kind of repeated
00:43:40the formula with the wrong
00:43:41the world in 80 quid.
00:43:42But what was happening was...
00:43:44Can I show you?
00:43:45Yeah, yeah.
00:43:45So it was like...
00:43:46say I was going into...
00:43:48like after doing the show
00:43:50a few times
00:43:50it was falling into rhythm.
00:43:51And so I didn't know
00:43:54in those days
00:43:55there was this age...
00:43:56the ancient style
00:43:56of bardic storytelling
00:43:58where bards might have
00:43:59told stories
00:44:00with harp music.
00:44:01and they would have done
00:44:02different airs
00:44:03and syllabic poetry.
00:44:06I was only kind of...
00:44:08if I knew in my head
00:44:09there was a jig coming
00:44:10the foot would start going.
00:44:11and I was using a microphone
00:44:13and you know
00:44:13there sometimes
00:44:14it picks up...
00:44:15It's lovely, yeah, yeah.
00:44:16Yeah.
00:44:16and it might have a character
00:44:18and he's like
00:44:18well he might indeed
00:44:19wouldn't he shouldn't he
00:44:20couldn't he kick the ball up
00:44:21he shoulda, coulda, woulda
00:44:22kind of character.
00:44:23It was called...
00:44:26Maurice Keneally
00:44:27and he lived in the Moor Kenealik
00:44:28so he wouldn't he
00:44:29wouldn't he shouldn't
00:44:30you know.
00:44:31So...
00:44:31he'd be like
00:44:33he might indeed
00:44:34wouldn't he shouldn't
00:44:35he couldn't he kick in the ball.
00:44:36up in the air
00:44:37he might indeed
00:44:37wouldn't he couldn't he shouldn't
00:44:38he's scratching his arse
00:44:39and pulling his hair.
00:44:41so he's little
00:44:44too tension
00:44:46Da da da da da
00:44:47but
00:44:47with that
00:44:48uh
00:44:49that
00:44:49small
00:44:49but
00:44:50be
00:44:50söz
00:44:51coulda da da da
00:44:52da da
00:44:53다시
00:44:54pero
00:44:54et
00:44:55tu
00:44:56ourselves
00:44:56et
00:44:57eh
00:44:59ire
00:45:00ire
00:45:01辈
00:45:01but
00:45:02be
00:45:03t
00:45:04r
00:45:05parts
00:45:08de
00:45:08t
00:45:09de
00:45:09de
00:45:10Having worked so long with Jigs, Reels, Polka's slides, I started to...
00:45:15to get into the idea of telling the stories to the beat, I don't claim...
00:45:20to have any great mythos or any great magic to it.
00:45:23It's all kind of what happened.
00:45:25But you do tell older stories as well.
00:45:30Don't you like folk tales and that kind of thing?
00:45:32Yeah, I was...
00:45:34I was during...
00:45:35COVID, I'd been working up here, I was in the Abbey up here in Dublin and...
00:45:40when COVID hit, you know, there was no work and I was...
00:45:43I was renting the last night and so I moved...
00:45:45back, I didn't really have anywhere to go as such.
00:45:47But I suppose my father had passed in 2016 and the will...
00:45:50the pro I came through in 2018 and I was left a field...
00:45:54three fields.
00:45:55So I put a caravan in the field.
00:45:56Beside one another.
00:45:57Yeah.
00:45:58Yeah.
00:45:59And...
00:46:00It's funny because...
00:46:01You left one and cough.
00:46:02Yeah.
00:46:03Three feet.
00:46:04So around that time...
00:46:05I was back in Clare and I was living in a mobile and I could feel...
00:46:10you know, the world was starting to drift away.
00:46:12You know, I could feel the TV presenting going...
00:46:15You know, I was in the 40s and you know, you get to a point where you have to let go of...
00:46:18I don't know, is it ego or ambition?
00:46:20But the idea of making it famous in the music business or the rock and roll or the TV presenting...
00:46:25or the comedy or the theatre, you know, I was well beyond the point of pushing out...
00:46:30the actor headshot or ringing or trying to get film work or...
00:46:33You know, sometimes stuff...
00:46:35drifts in, which is great.
00:46:36You get the call to do stuff.
00:46:38I'm getting the vibe off, yeah.
00:46:40I'm getting two vibes off you.
00:46:44One is the other...
00:46:45a kind of a sadness or something or a kind of a melancholy or a...
00:46:50a wound or a defeat or something like that.
00:46:52I'd have it myself as well, but...
00:46:53I'd have it myself as well, but...
00:46:55I'm getting that awareness from you.
00:46:56And the other one is then of...
00:46:59almost...
00:47:00you're a thoroughbred...
00:47:04something...
00:47:05something...
00:47:06but almost from another time.
00:47:08And that...
00:47:09you might be causing yourself...
00:47:10stress...
00:47:11by trying to be modern...
00:47:12in the sense of...
00:47:14mortgages and...
00:47:15TikTok accounts...
00:47:16and a career.
00:47:18And there's something of the...
00:47:20spalping...
00:47:21storyteller...
00:47:22There's something of the spalping...
00:47:23storyteller...
00:47:24There's something of the spalping...
00:47:25storyteller...
00:47:25that seems so authentic in you.
00:47:27Oh thanks.
00:47:28Do you know what I mean?
00:47:29Yeah.
00:47:30It's a real deal.
00:47:31There's no...
00:47:32You're not messing.
00:47:33You're not...
00:47:34This isn't a career thing.
00:47:35This is instinctively what you...
00:47:35are head to foot.
00:47:36And...
00:47:37you know...
00:47:38the...
00:47:39self-harm...
00:47:40we can do...
00:47:41in trying to fit into...
00:47:43a...
00:47:44a shape that's not meant for...
00:47:45purpose.
00:47:46Um...
00:47:47Those are two things I get off you...
00:47:48of that kind of...
00:47:49Yeah.
00:47:50It's interesting...
00:47:51you know...
00:47:52So...
00:47:53I often struggled with my name...
00:47:54you know...
00:47:55Andres...
00:47:55to stack.
00:47:56And when we were...
00:47:57we lived...
00:47:58in a housing state in Galway...
00:47:59when I was young.
00:48:00you know...
00:48:01my parents were very young...
00:48:02when I was born.
00:48:03They were still in college like...
00:48:04and my old...
00:48:05my father...
00:48:05this was the original...
00:48:06Ennis Diamond hippie...
00:48:07before it was called...
00:48:08he'd come to the front door...
00:48:09and have the list of...
00:48:10and a t-shirt...
00:48:10on...
00:48:11you know...
00:48:12you know...
00:48:13and he'd say...
00:48:14my son...
00:48:15is named...
00:48:16after a famous...
00:48:17bardic poet...
00:48:18from Moloch...
00:48:20and in my mind...
00:48:21it was like...
00:48:22the whole place to go...
00:48:23where the folk is Moloch...
00:48:24but apparently...
00:48:25there was a poet there...
00:48:26called Andres Mokurtin...
00:48:27and they said...
00:48:28that he was one of the last...
00:48:30of the...
00:48:31the barriers of Thormund...
00:48:32Thormund like...
00:48:33Thormund...
00:48:34North Munster...
00:48:35Now...
00:48:35every bard after that...
00:48:36they'd say...
00:48:37he's the last bard...
00:48:38and blah blah blah...
00:48:39it goes on...
00:48:40but this Andres Mokurtin...
00:48:40according to Peter Curtin...
00:48:42who'd be maybe...
00:48:43a descendant...
00:48:44in the roadside...
00:48:45in the tavern...
00:48:46in Listerion Verna...
00:48:47Crut...
00:48:48is an old word...
00:48:49for small harp...
00:48:50that the bards used to use...
00:48:50from Mokurtin...
00:48:52maybe they were...
00:48:53they were bardic harpers...
00:48:54as well...
00:48:55where it kind of got interesting...
00:48:57is they started working with...
00:48:58a new piece...
00:49:00erm...
00:49:01it was actually...
00:49:02Moncon...
00:49:03came to Listerion Verna...
00:49:04and he came with a harpist...
00:49:05and he was tough...
00:49:05in that time...
00:49:06about...
00:49:07the old stories...
00:49:08would often be long stories...
00:49:09and then they'd be paragraphs...
00:49:10that would be in verse...
00:49:11then it would be prose...
00:49:12then paragraphs in verse...
00:49:13and sometimes the verse...
00:49:15would be...
00:49:16more than just poetic...
00:49:17it could be musical...
00:49:18so people will remember it...
00:49:19you know...
00:49:20and then...
00:49:21the next time he came...
00:49:22was an event in the pavilion...
00:49:23in Listerion Verna...
00:49:24and...
00:49:25Áine and Irene...
00:49:26was the harpist...
00:49:27that came up...
00:49:28and I was asked to do...
00:49:29a few stories before...
00:49:30after...
00:49:31so next thing I started...
00:49:32doing a story with her...
00:49:33and it worked well...
00:49:34so then when I...
00:49:35got to develop my own show...
00:49:36I worked with...
00:49:37Aisling Lyons...
00:49:38and she had done a lot of...
00:49:39research about harpists...
00:49:40so then...
00:49:41say we're driving through...
00:49:42somewhere like Granhart...
00:49:43and one of the lads in the band...
00:49:44Brian will say...
00:49:45ah you know...
00:49:46it's shit...
00:49:45and we'll say no...
00:49:46this was the great...
00:49:47gathering of harpists...
00:49:48here in 1738...
00:49:49or something...
00:49:50so I started to learn more...
00:49:51about how the bardic...
00:49:52works with the harp...
00:49:54so...
00:49:55all of a sudden...
00:49:56it was like...
00:49:57wow...
00:49:58it is real...
00:49:59there is these old poems...
00:50:00that go to jigs and reels...
00:50:00you know...
00:50:01I...
00:50:02I had such a strong sense...
00:50:04when you talked...
00:50:05about...
00:50:06Andreas...
00:50:07MacCurtain...
00:50:08ah...
00:50:10a felt...
00:50:11sense...
00:50:12of...
00:50:13I don't know...
00:50:14the Irish...
00:50:15word...
00:50:16for reincarnation...
00:50:17but a very...
00:50:19very...
00:50:20very strong...
00:50:21blasphemy...
00:50:22Andreas...
00:50:23of...
00:50:24soul...
00:50:25appearing...
00:50:26in...
00:50:27different...
00:50:28bodies...
00:50:29at...
00:50:30different...
00:50:30different...
00:50:31times...
00:50:32yeah...
00:50:33er...
00:50:34and that life of...
00:50:35the...
00:50:36of...
00:50:37the travelling...
00:50:38storyteller...
00:50:40musician...
00:50:41I've...
00:50:42I've always associated...
00:50:43you with that...
00:50:44and...
00:50:45a very...
00:50:45very authentic, real way.
00:50:50You're a good-looking book.
00:50:54Do you...
00:50:55Are you for settling down with somebody?
00:50:58I knew you were...
00:51:00You were going to ask me that.
00:51:01Why did you know that?
00:51:02I just knew.
00:51:03I said, I bet.
00:51:04They said, bring the feet.
00:51:05I was going to be protected.
00:51:06I was going to be...
00:51:07I knew you were good.
00:51:08They said, oh, stop.
00:51:09Only...
00:51:10I'm curious about that.
00:51:11I'm only...
00:51:12Yeah, you know...
00:51:13Look...
00:51:14And I guess my cure...
00:51:15Curiosity is one, just a personal thing, how you get non-y with somebody.
00:51:18Yeah.
00:51:19And then another thing of...
00:51:20This strange...
00:51:22Archetype is calling me.
00:51:25Yeah.
00:51:26And the archetype is of the road.
00:51:28Yeah.
00:51:29And travelling and talking and...
00:51:30And, you know...
00:51:31You know...
00:51:32Uh...
00:51:33You know...
00:51:34You know...
00:51:35You know...
00:51:35There not been any one fixed relationship, but there being...
00:51:38You know...
00:51:39Yeah.
00:51:40You know...
00:51:40People that you meet...
00:51:41And just...
00:51:42Do you have...
00:51:43What goes on for you in that world?
00:51:45Well...
00:51:46It's like you say...
00:51:47You know...
00:51:48The road...
00:51:49Is...
00:51:50Maybe...
00:51:50One of the reasons...
00:51:51Um...
00:51:52That I struggle with relationships, I suppose.
00:51:54Yeah.
00:51:55No...
00:51:56You know...
00:51:57There was a few years...
00:51:58You know...
00:51:59I got sober...
00:52:00I think...
00:52:012003, 2004...
00:52:00You know...
00:52:01And it's not always necessarily the distractions.
00:52:03And I don't want it to be...
00:52:04You know...
00:52:05You know...
00:52:05What's going on about the ADHD...
00:52:06Or the addictions...
00:52:07Or the...
00:52:08The...
00:52:09Downloading the apps...
00:52:10But it's also kind of...
00:52:10Like...
00:52:11When I'm out...
00:52:12I feel like...
00:52:13There's all the people older than me...
00:52:14That are settled down and married...
00:52:15A lot of the...
00:52:15Them are going through divorces now...
00:52:16You know...
00:52:17So...
00:52:18I don't like to talk about my troubled childhood to them...
00:52:19Because they're...
00:52:20You know...
00:52:21They've got kids that are going through that...
00:52:22So...
00:52:23Then...
00:52:24A lot of people then...
00:52:25You know...
00:52:25You know...
00:52:26The Instagram gang...
00:52:27So...
00:52:28I feel...
00:52:29A bit lonely...
00:52:30Sometimes...
00:52:30I feel like...
00:52:31You know...
00:52:32A lot of...
00:52:33A lot of old friends...
00:52:34And you know yourself...
00:52:35You lose people...
00:52:35On the way...
00:52:36You know...
00:52:37But to answer your question...
00:52:38About the relationships...
00:52:39Yeah...
00:52:40It is...
00:52:40It is hard...
00:52:41You know...
00:52:42I've been in counselling for a lot of years...
00:52:43There was a lot of...
00:52:44Kind of crazy stuff...
00:52:45You know...
00:52:45A lot of old...
00:52:46A lot of issues...
00:52:47You know...
00:52:48When I started drinking myself...
00:52:49From a very...
00:52:50You know...
00:52:50A young age...
00:52:51You know...
00:52:52By the time I got sober then...
00:52:53I went into one or two...
00:52:54Long term relationships...
00:52:55When I was in my twenties...
00:52:56You know...
00:52:57And thirties...
00:52:58And I was like...
00:52:59And now...
00:53:00I'm a...
00:53:00A bit kind of cautious...
00:53:01You know...
00:53:02Because I mean...
00:53:03The clock is ticking for everyone...
00:53:04And there's an anxiety...
00:53:05Because you meet people now...
00:53:06And do you want a big serious relationship...
00:53:07It's very hard to just relax...
00:53:09And have the crack...
00:53:10And people want commitment as well...
00:53:12You know...
00:53:13And...
00:53:14Like it's not even...
00:53:15Just in these serious relationships...
00:53:17I'd also find a commitment...
00:53:18To projects...
00:53:19Ideas...
00:53:20You know...
00:53:21I could be committed to...
00:53:22A big project...
00:53:23But if someone rings and goes...
00:53:24Starks...
00:53:25We need a fiddle...
00:53:25To play...
00:53:26And...
00:53:27Now...
00:53:2820 minutes...
00:53:29You go...
00:53:30Yeah...
00:53:31You're thinking the chowder...
00:53:33You know...
00:53:34And...
00:53:35You know...
00:53:37Yeah...
00:53:39Yeah...
00:53:41You know...
00:53:53I always remember my father, you know, he wanted to be a writer, but he was on tour.
00:53:58He was a musician and, you know, and then he began, you know, and I was the eldest.
00:54:03And I'd be with my mother and we'd be waiting for him to come home at night and we'd be listening to the sound of all the cars and we'd say.
00:54:08I'd say, that's him. She said, no, no, no, that's a Ford Fiesta because my father had a Fiat. It had a distinctive sound.
00:54:13And then, you know, in those days, he was working with God, with county council and they might have been bringing in the oil.
00:54:18Bringing in the gas or electricity to the Iron Islands. But at the same time, the crack was kicking off.
00:54:23So he might leave Galway by Spiddle or Russellville and those days, go to the Iron Islands, end up at a session.
00:54:28And Doolan could come up three or four days later and he'd turn up and my mother'd say, well.
00:54:33Have you geeked tonight? And he'd be, I don't have a fucking geek tonight.
00:54:38I only asked you a question. You know, so I think I'm so afraid of both like.
00:54:43Being that person who has to go, but also afraid of being that needy.
00:54:48Wanty person, you know?
00:54:49Yeah.
00:54:51Did your dad...
00:54:53Head over to, was he lecturing in San Francisco or something?
00:54:57Do I remember that?
00:54:58Yeah.
00:54:58Was he a writer in residence or something over there?
00:55:02Yeah, he professed...
00:55:03Survivor studies in Berkeley.
00:55:06Yeah, so when we were kids...
00:55:08He would have gone on tour, he went on tour in the 80s with Tommy Peoples.
00:55:13Paddy Keenan and Johnny Moynihan.
00:55:15After the breakup of the Batty band, they had this band called...
00:55:18Last Night's Fun.
00:55:19And it was kind of...
00:55:20None of them was famous or notorious, but a lot of crazy...
00:55:23Things happen, I think.
00:55:23How old were you when Dad went over there?
00:55:26I spoke to eight.
00:55:27And it was...
00:55:28What's amazing is now I'm back in in his diamond.
00:55:30And I didn't grow up there, you know?
00:55:32But my father...
00:55:33Who left there when he was like 15 or 16, you know?
00:55:36He...
00:55:37There was never a day...
00:55:38When he wouldn't talk about any diamond.
00:55:40He'd have these stories that go...
00:55:41There was a white crow that came to...
00:55:43Our tone.
00:55:44And she whistled the tune and went...
00:55:46Whistling
00:55:47Whistling
00:55:48And the crow, she'd go up to Gus Arthur.
00:55:51And Gus would take the tune and he...
00:55:53And we'd play it on the sax.
00:55:54And later on, Mickey Hogan would say...
00:55:56Come on, Niddy.
00:55:57We'll play a dance below.
00:55:58I'm going to play a milter for one and six.
00:55:59I want, Mickey, I want.
00:56:00I'm doing battles tonight for the better.
00:56:02Come on, Niddy.
00:56:02You want me...
00:56:03I'm going to be busy in the bar.
00:56:04I will, I will, Mickey.
00:56:05My mother wants me.
00:56:05We've a crowding from Barthraa playing darts.
00:56:08Come on, Niddy.
00:56:08Come on.
00:56:09And then Gus, I'd hear him whistle the tune and the saxophone.
00:56:12And we'd go off to Milltown.
00:56:13So you'd have these stories.
00:56:15And now I'm back and I'm in the cultist group.
00:56:18There's a great cultist group there.
00:56:20And now I'm, like, meeting some of these...
00:56:23older musicians and playing tunes with them.
00:56:26Were you, were you whacked?
00:56:28When your dad passed?
00:56:29Oh, Jesus, yeah.
00:56:31I started getting these really bad blackouts.
00:56:33Like, I could just, like, even Tom, when I'm feeling, I would just get...
00:56:38I just couldn't deal with the stress of it.
00:56:41And I had one or two gigs.
00:56:43I was still, I think I was back living in Galway City that year.
00:56:45And, uh...
00:56:48I don't know, there was one or two gigs where I literally, not collapsed, but I just couldn't do it.
00:56:53There was...
00:56:53There was just that connection with the music was gone.
00:56:55The connection...
00:56:56There was...
00:56:56I just don't know how I...
00:56:58I didn't know why I was performing.
00:57:00There was always such a deep connection with me and the music.
00:57:03And my father, like, it was kind of, like, why...
00:57:06I'm even shaken thinking about it.
00:57:08Because I remember after he died, there was a moment where I thought,
00:57:10oh, I don't have to do music anymore.
00:57:11Now I can do comedy.
00:57:13It was...
00:57:13It was like I could leave the tradition.
00:57:15It just...
00:57:16It didn't make sense to...
00:57:18I could live...
00:57:19I could live, but it didn't make sense to play music anymore.
00:57:22I think...
00:57:23On a subconscious level, I maybe worked at music or stories because...
00:57:28I wanted to impress him, you know.
00:57:30Maybe.
00:57:31When I was young, maybe...
00:57:33secretly, you know the way you often say you're looking for approval from the father.
00:57:38And I would have upset him so many times, you know, like when I went drinking.
00:57:43Like, my 20s, we fell out so much.
00:57:46But then, when I got sober...
00:57:48You know, I had the show...
00:57:49He came to the show in Glore.
00:57:50I came home from Australia that year.
00:57:52I was cleaning sober.
00:57:53And I had the show.
00:57:54And I remember I was backstage in Glore after the show.
00:57:57And I was wondering...
00:57:57I was thinking...
00:57:58Did I say too many F-words?
00:57:59Because, you know, with storytelling, I wouldn't have a script.
00:58:01I would just be lit enough.
00:58:02And he came in...
00:58:03backstage and he gave me a big hug.
00:58:05And, yeah, it just...
00:58:08It kind of flacked me, all right.
00:58:11It's important, I think...
00:58:13It's important, I think, to be sad and to allow ourselves...
00:58:18to be sad, you know.
00:58:19Yeah.
00:58:20I'm very, very...
00:58:23very fond of you, Andres.
00:58:26And, uh...
00:58:28Yeah.
00:58:29So, stay in touch, fella.
00:58:30Oh, thanks, Tom-Tom.
00:58:32There you go, now.
00:58:33Cheers.
00:58:35See you soon.
00:58:38And now, ladies and gentlemen, would you please welcome...
00:58:40all the way from Belfast and Donegal, Hurtan.
00:58:43performing Kho Dei Shin from their self-titled debut album.
00:58:48Belfast and Donegal, Hurtan.
00:58:53Belfast and Donegal, Hurtan.
00:58:58Belfast and Donegal, Hurtan.
00:59:03Belfast and Donegal, Anthony.
00:59:05Belfast and Donegal, Hurtan.
00:59:07Aye.
00:59:08Oh, it's pathetic, it's just like you and your
00:59:11My all in the
00:59:13How do you get in this moment, I'm on my floor
00:59:15Okay, she's got she's
00:59:18I'm on my head
00:59:21Okay, why can't you say
00:59:23I'm on my floor
00:59:24I want to leave that way
00:59:26And I'm on my floor
00:59:28Okay, I'm on my floor
00:59:30Okay, I'm on my floor
00:59:32Okay
00:59:38Oh
00:59:48God, his linga is for
00:59:50May he enough his wrath, he's got
00:59:53When you live on
00:59:54My chindini, so God
00:59:57Is my being
00:59:58My chindini, so God
01:00:00Is my being
01:00:02My chindini, so God
01:00:03My chindini, so God
01:00:05Is my being
01:00:06My chindini, so God
01:00:07Oh, God
01:00:08Is my chindini, so God
01:00:09Is my being
01:00:10My chindini, so God
01:00:13Is my chindini, so God
01:00:15Is my chindini, so God
01:00:17Is my chindini, so God
01:00:18Is my chindini, so God
01:00:23Is my chindini, so God
01:00:27Is my chindini, so God
01:00:28Is my chindini, so God
01:00:29Is my chindini, so God
01:00:30Is my chindini, so God
01:00:31Is my chindini, so God
01:00:32Is my chindini, so God
01:00:33Is my chindini, so God
01:00:34Is my chindini, so God
01:00:35Is my chindini, so God
01:00:36Is my chindini, so God
01:00:37Is my chindini, so God
01:00:38Is my chindini, so God
01:00:39Is my chindini, so God
01:00:40Is my chindini, so God
01:00:41Is my chindini, so God
01:00:42Is my chindini, so God
01:00:43Is my chindini, so God
01:00:44Is my chindini, so God
01:00:45Is my chindini, so God
01:00:46Is my chindini, so God
01:00:47Is my chindini, so God
01:00:48Is my chindini, so God
01:00:49Is my chindini, so God
01:00:50Oh
01:00:55Oh
01:01:00Oh
01:01:02Oh
01:01:05Oh
01:01:07Oh
01:01:10Oh
01:01:12Oh
01:01:14Oh
01:01:15Oh
01:01:17Oh
01:01:19Oh
01:01:20Oh
01:01:22Oh
01:01:24Oh
01:01:25Oh
01:01:27Oh
01:01:29Oh
01:01:30Oh
01:01:32Oh
01:01:34Oh
01:01:35Oh
01:01:39Oh
01:01:40Oh
01:01:44Oh
01:01:45Oh
01:01:47Oh
01:01:50Oh
01:01:52Oh
01:01:54Oh
01:01:55Oh
01:01:59Oh
01:02:00Oh
01:02:04Oh
01:02:05Oh
01:02:07Oh
01:02:09Oh
01:02:10Oh
01:02:14Oh
01:02:15Oh
01:02:19Oh
01:02:20Oh
01:02:24Oh
01:02:25Oh
01:02:29Oh
01:02:30Oh
01:02:32Oh
01:02:35Oh
01:02:41Oh
01:02:46Oh
01:02:47Oh
01:02:49Oh
01:02:40You
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