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00:00If anyone thinks here, again, that the European Union or Europe as a whole can defend itself without the US, keep on dreaming.
00:07You can't. We can't. We need each other.
00:10I think he is very important to NATO. He is totally committed to NATO.
00:14He had one big irritant, one big pebble in his shoe, which is there since Eisenhower, the fact that the Europeans were not paying up.
00:21I'm not sure I can answer them all, but I'll do my best.
00:24So, to really delve into the questions and take them one by one, but then also clustering them a little bit.
00:31European architecture, how to avoid, when there are political differences, was the question, how to prevent disunity?
00:40I would say it is our strength that we have our political differences.
00:44And the fact that we have these political differences means that we are democracies with free press,
00:49with demonstrations on the street if necessary, with various parties forming governments.
00:55And I would say it is the strength of this organisation, of NATO and also of the EU, that we are based on this principle of democracy.
01:02So, I would respectfully disagree.
01:05And I think it is the unity which is stronger because of our diversity.
01:10Then on Greenland.
01:11There were many questions on Greenland and basically what was discussed last week and, of course, in the run-up to the debate,
01:20many phone calls have taken place, also from European leaders.
01:25But in the end, what we agreed is, I think, two work streams going forward.
01:29One work stream is for NATO collectively to take more responsibility for the defence of the Arctic.
01:37As you know, there are seven countries in the Arctic.
01:40There is the U.S. through Alaska and, of course, Canada, Denmark because of Greenland.
01:45And then we have Iceland, Norway, Finland, Sweden.
01:48Yes, these are the seven countries bordering on the Arctic.
01:51The eighth one is Russia, obviously not in NATO.
01:55So, one work stream will be to see how best collectively we can prevent the Russians and the Chinese getting more access to the Arctic region,
02:03becoming also military, more of an adversary there.
02:07How to prevent that, also from them gaining access to the economy here and there.
02:11And that's one work stream.
02:13NATO clearly being in charge here.
02:15The second work stream is that what was agreed a week before I met with the president on Wednesday,
02:22there was the meeting in Washington between the foreign ministers of Denmark
02:26and, of course, the foreign minister of Greenland with the executive state of the U.S., Marco Rubio and the vice-president J.D. Vence.
02:34And they agreed to continue their discussions on the in this trilateral setting.
02:40And basically, what they probably will focus on, but now it is up to the Danes, Greenland and the U.S. to do that,
02:47I will not be involved in that work stream.
02:49But clearly, what came out of the meeting on Wednesday is at least two issues to address.
02:54And issue one is Russia, issue second is China, how to prevent these two countries from gaining access in a military sense or in an economic sense to the Arctic.
03:04Of course, I have no mandate to negotiate the foreign minister of Denmark for the previous foreign minister of Denmark.
03:11I asked that question, of course, I have no mandate to negotiate on behalf of Denmark.
03:16So I didn't and I will not.
03:18Of course, that's up to Denmark to do.
03:20I will be very much involved as NATO secretary general in the first work stream.
03:24How can we best as NATO collectively take the defense of the Arctic forward?
03:31And indeed, there is also an issue, I think, when the Arctic becomes more of an issue.
03:37And President Trump, by the way, and I will defend him now and then this afternoon just to irritate you.
03:41No, no, because I really feel that he deserves some defense.
03:46He was the one during Trump 45 who already said there is an issue with Arctic security.
03:51And again, he did so when he came back into office in January.
03:54And I think he's right.
03:55There is an issue with the Arctic region.
03:57There is an issue of collective security because these sea lanes are opening up.
04:00And because the Chinese and the Russians are more and more active.
04:03China, of course, not bordering on the Arctic.
04:05But as you know, very much being involved there together with the Russians.
04:10So clearly, we have to address that.
04:13And that means that when it comes to this question of capabilities, we will see in NATO how we tackle this.
04:21We have a well-established process of capability targeting.
04:24So now we will look into, within the system of the capability targets, the Danes have made this point.
04:29Prime Minister Fredriksson visited me on Friday.
04:31She very much stressed that point rightly.
04:34I think others are stressing that point.
04:35So we now look into how we can best do that.
04:38Taking that issue forward that the capabilities we need also to defend the Arctic are also step-by-step becoming part of the overall capability targeting process.
04:47Then on the Ukraine peace agreement, obviously, the security guarantees are extremely important.
04:54And as you know, there are three layers.
04:55One layer is the Ukrainian armed forces going forward.
04:58They will be the first line of defense.
05:00The second line of defense being the coalition of the willing.
05:03They providing training, providing, for example, also support in terms of the military built-up of the Ukrainian armed forces.
05:12So this is led by the French and the Brits, as you know.
05:15And, of course, the U.S. becoming more and more involved, as you know, since last summer.
05:21And as the president of Ukraine said yesterday, and I think he is right, the security guarantees are close to being agreed upon.
05:28But then, of course, there is the other issue, which is the rebuilding of Ukraine.
05:32And the third issue is the very sensitive issue of territory.
05:36In the end, it is only the Ukrainian government who can decide on territory.
05:40But for the Ukrainian government to get its hat around what they can accept in terms of a compromise on territory,
05:47it is crucial for them to know that going forward, the Russians will not try to attack Ukraine again.
05:54Preferably, of course, they would love for Ukraine to be a NATO.
05:56But as you know, various NATO nations are at the moment blocking that.
06:00There is this irreversible path into NATO that will still be there.
06:05But at the short term, it's politically, it's practically now not on the cards.
06:10And that means that the security guarantees are the more crucial to prevent the Russians from ever attacking again.
06:17I have no, there is no link between the U.S. side.
06:24One of you made the point that there was rumor of a link, I understand.
06:29I haven't heard it before.
06:30Between the Greenland discussion and the Ukrainian discussion, these are totally separate.
06:33The Shadow Fleet, rightly raised here, crucial because it is a big source of income for the Russian Federation.
06:40And I'm extremely happy with the fact that we pose more and more strategic dilemmas to the Russians in terms of Baltic sentry.
06:48And we have seen what the Americans did with the Russian flagship close to Iceland.
06:53And we have seen many other interventions, also by the French, close to the French coast.
06:57And I think when these ships pose a threat to the environment, when there are serious questions about the capability of the ship to continue sailing,
07:07continue sailing without cutting industry infrastructure, critical industry infrastructure,
07:12and obviously within all the legal frameworks, but of course all the nations are aware of that,
07:17within the legal framework there are ways to intervene.
07:20And that already is having an impact.
07:22And it forces the Russians to more and more protect the Shadow Fleet, which of course poses a cost on them.
07:29Then, when it comes to the comments on soldiers in Afghanistan,
07:36the point I made with President Trump is that Article 5 was used once, after 9-11.
07:42This was, of course, when the U.S. was under attack.
07:45And I made the point that many non-US NATO countries, but also partners like Australia, have helped out in Afghanistan.
07:54And that for every two American soldiers who paid the ultimate price,
07:58one soldier of a ally or a partner, a NATO ally or a partner country, did not return home.
08:05And I particularly mention Denmark, because, relatively speaking, they have had many casualties in Afghanistan, the Netherlands,
08:17but also, of course, bigger countries like Italy, UK, Australia and others.
08:22And I know, and of course, the President already has made the point, I think it was yesterday,
08:27praising the United Kingdom for the immense sacrifice they made in shoulder-to-shoulder with the Americans fighting in Afghanistan.
08:39And I know that America greatly appreciates all the efforts being made in Afghanistan
08:45and acknowledges the fact that many casualties were there, not only Americans, but also from, as I said, allies and NATO partners.
08:56The European pillar, this whole discussion on the European pillar, I think, let's focus.
09:01The focus should be that we complement each other, exactly as we're doing at the moment.
09:06And it is a NATO, as I said, standard setting, capabilities, commander control, and the EU, when it comes to resilience,
09:14when it comes to the industrial base, when it comes to regulation, when it comes to finding ways of getting the money to pay for our collective defence,
09:23on top of what, of course, the individual nations are doing, that's how we should go forward.
09:28A European pillar is a bit of an empty word.
09:31I guess what you mean is a sort of, next to each nation, to have a sort of European defence force.
09:37I think, but of course, that's up to the European countries to decide.
09:41But I think there will be a lot of duplication.
09:44I wish you luck if you want to do it, because you have to find the men and women in uniform.
09:47It will be on top of what is happening already, and it will make things more complicated.
09:52I think Putin will love it.
09:53So, think again.
09:55But if the European pillar means what I just said, this division of labour,
09:59you're focusing on where Europe has strength, and NATO focusing on where NATO has strength, great.
10:06On my relationship with the President, hey, listen, if somebody is doing good stuff,
10:11and President Trump is doing a lot of good stuff, I believe, I know, I'm irritating a lot of you again, but I think so.
10:16Because, as I said also in Davos, the 2% reach by all NATO countries now at the end of 2025 would never, ever, ever have happened without Trump.
10:27Do you really think that Spain and Italy and Belgium and Canada would have decided to move from 1.5% to 2%?
10:34Italy spending 10 billion more now on defence at the beginning of the year without President Trump?
10:39No way it would not have happened.
10:41And do you really think that in The Hague we would have come to the 5% commitment without President Trump?
10:46No way.
10:47So I think he is very important to NATO.
10:50He is totally committed to NATO.
10:52He had one big irritant, one big pebble in his shoe, which is there since Eisenhower, the fact that the Europeans were not paying up.
10:58And with the NATO defence commitment in The Hague, the outcome of the The Hague Summit, on spending and also on industrial production in Ukraine,
11:06but particularly here on spending, we are now equalising with the US, so that irritant is gone.
11:11So there is a total commitment by the US to NATO in Article 5, but also an expectation that Europeans and Canadians will pay more,
11:18and we are doing so.
11:19Germany is a big example.
11:21You spend 70 billion on defence in 2021.
11:24You will spend 160 billion, 90 billion more in 2029.
11:29You will reach the 3.5% core defence spending, as part of the 5%, by 2029.
11:34This is Germany leading the way, the second biggest economy in NATO.
11:38This is crucial, and it is a great example to others.
11:41And of course we have a couple of countries like Poland and Estland, Lithuania and Latvia already on the 5%.
11:48But also Canada.
11:49Can I mention that here?
11:49Canada is back.
11:50Canada 2%, committing to the 5%, being a huge supporter for Ukraine, also spending a lot of money on these pearl packages.
11:59So Canada is really back, and I think that's fantastic.
12:03Hey, but if, so when President Trump is doing good stuff, I will praise him, and I don't mind him publishing text messages.
12:10And if anyone thinks here, again, that the European Union, or Europe as a whole, can defend itself without the U.S., keep on dreaming.
12:18You can't.
12:19We can't.
12:19We need each other.
12:21And why do we need each other?
12:22I tell you.
12:23First of all, because also the U.S. needs NATO.
12:25And the U.S. is not only in NATO to prevent the mistake after the First World War, not to re-engage with Europe.
12:34And then again, the long arm of history reaching out to the U.S. again in the Second World War, as Churchill famously said in his speech in 1941 in the U.S. Congress.
12:42They are also in NATO, because for the U.S. to stay safe, and by the way, Arctic region is evidence here, they need a secure Arctic, they need a secure Euro-Atlantic, and they also need a secure Europe.
12:54So the U.S. has every interest in NATO as much as Canada and the European NATO NATO allies.
13:00But for Europe, if you really want to go it alone, and those who you were planning for that, forget that you can never get there with 5%.
13:07It will be 10%.
13:08You have to build up your own nuclear capability.
13:11That costs billions and billions of euros.
13:13You will lose then, in that scenario, you would lose the ultimate guarantor of our freedom, which is the U.S. nuclear umbrella.
13:20So, hey, good luck.
13:23Then, I love this.
13:29The Board of Peace.
13:30On the Board of Peace, I will not comment, because when it comes to the Board of Peace,
13:35obviously, NATO is not directly involved in the Middle East peace efforts.
13:40Of course, we welcome all the work to secure peace in Gaza, where allies are navigating the crisis, but we are not ourselves involved in that sense.
13:51Then, bilateral alliances.
13:54Well, bilateral cooperation is great.
13:56I'm not sure about alliances, what is the difference, but I mean, within NATO, there are many.
14:00I mean, we have the Weimar format, we have the E3, we have the E5, we have the A7, that's great, the B9.
14:08So, there are many corporations between countries within NATO, which only strengthen NATO, so I'm totally in favor.
14:14Then, on Iran, we are only involved with Iran when it comes to the fact that Iran and North Korea and Russia and China are working together.
14:22But again, if it comes to the situation in Iran itself at the moment, and of course, I'm extremely worried about that, we all are.
14:28It's not for NATO to get involved, because NATO has its, of course, is concentrating on the Euro-Atlantic.
14:37The Russian threat, I think I have mentioned already, it's there, and that's why we have to really ramp up spending.
14:46And I also mentioned already, this to the renew questions, that I don't believe in this European pillar, except for if it means within that division of labor.
14:55Then, when it comes to the Taurus and other systems being delivered, yes or no, to Ukraine, that's up to individual allies, I will not comment.
15:05Sorry, generally, I'm saying, if you deliver your systems, please, no restrictions on them, so that Ukraine can really use them.
15:12But whatever, what is delivered, of course, is not for me to comment, I can only discreetly work behind the scenes.
15:18When it comes to the defence strategy, which was published last Friday, I think that is a good paper, there are no surprises in it.
15:28And what we really see is the US pivoting more towards Asia, but at the same time, absolutely with Europe,
15:35understanding that Europe will have to build up its own armed forces even further, based on the The Hague Defence Investment Pledge.
15:41And that will mean over time that the US can do more in the Pacific, but there will always be a very strong conventional US presence in Europe.
15:51And obviously, the nuclear umbrella will be there.
15:55I totally comment everything being done on military mobility here.
16:00The EU plays a crucial role when it comes to deregulation.
16:04Military mobility, it is vital that a bridge not only can hold my Saab car, 20 years old, but also can hold a tank.
16:10Saab, yes, but it is a bit old now.
16:14The EU-NATO dialogue, I think, is better than it ever was.
16:17I mean, we work extremely well together.
16:19I'm really happy at all levels.
16:21I can only say I cannot see how that can improve, how the EU and NATO work.
16:26And we have to, so it's not just a...
16:29The Western Balkan security situation, of course, we constantly follow that.
16:35As you know, we can never accept a security vacuum to emerge in Bosnia.
16:40We will be constantly working on that.
16:42I'm in close contact with the Troika presidency there.
16:46Then, of course, when it comes to Kosovo, KFOR, crucial in Kosovo.
16:51And we also make sure that we keep the dialogue going with, this is your question, with Serbia.
16:58I have my own relationship with Aleksandr Vucic, the president.
17:01We know each other for many years.
17:03But, of course, we also expect him to come up with accountability for what happened a couple of years ago.
17:12And in two issues, and both of them, he promised complete accountability.
17:20Then, when it comes to Berlin Plus, I think I should not comment on hypothetical questions.
17:27But it is, I think, important to keep focus on reality that NATO-EU corporation is stronger than ever.
17:34I really believe that at the moment.
17:36And that the U.S. role in NATO, as I said, remains key, except for if you want to double your defense spending.
17:42But even then, I would not do it.
17:44Because history brought us together.
17:45We have the same set of values.
17:47We are.
17:47We belong to each other.
17:49The transatlantic relationship, I think, is crucial.
17:52Then, on enlargement, of course, every country in the U.S. Atlantic area can apply for membership.
17:58But then, we have to agree with 32, and on Ukraine, already mentioned, the unanimity is not there at the moment.
18:06But we will keep working with Ukraine to keep them as strong as possible.
18:10And the irreversible path has been clearly laid out.
18:14Then, we have all the lessons we need to capture from Ukraine.
18:17I totally agree.
18:18From the war.
18:19By the way, if Russia would attack NATO, probably that war will not be an exact copy of now the war between Russia and Ukraine.
18:26But still, we have to capture all the lessons.
18:28That's why we have this Ukraine-NATO center now, joint initiative, JTEC in Poland, the Joint Analysis Training Education Center,
18:37where we capture all the lessons from the war in Ukraine.
18:41Also, to learn from that in terms of NATO going forward.
18:46And then, let me see.
18:49I think I've now.
18:50The Azore.
18:51I really have to work on that question.
18:53So, I will not now free will, but maybe if we can get your address, I can give you an answer in writing.
19:03And then, when it comes to Ingeborg, the question on, when it comes to the Ukraine and scaling up the defense industrial production in Ukraine,
19:13that's really happening at the moment.
19:15But there is still a big potential untapped in Ukraine of about 10 to 15 billion, I think it is at the moment.
19:22At least these numbers are of two, three months ago.
19:24Probably not changed a lot.
19:26So, we can still do more there.
19:27This is also what the Danes and Lithuanians, they have led the way here with others.
19:31And that's why I'm saying, when you speak about the 90 billion, the EU has now provided 60 billion on military support for two years.
19:40I think it is Europe one, Ukraine two, but then again, I'm afraid that you still need to spend money also.
19:46Not afraid.
19:47I hope you still will spend money on other suppliers, particularly when it comes to the interceptors and the defense of Ukraine.
19:56This is my final point here.
19:57And a couple of you made that point.
19:59As I said again, each night now, about 50 to 20 missiles are sent into Kiev, Lviv, Kharkiv and other big population centers in Ukraine.
20:10And hundreds of drones.
20:12The interception rate has come down.
20:14And the interception rate has come down because some of the nascent systems now in Ukraine do not have enough interceptors to fight back.
20:22And also the patriot systems, of course, need constant supply of pack missiles for them to intercept these missiles.
20:29And I agree with the parliamentarian who said that you also have to dig into your own stockpiles.
20:36There are two ways to do that.
20:37One is these pearl packages from the US because big in that pearl system is the interceptors for nascent and patriot systems, but also what you have in your own national stockpiles.
20:49And I'm constantly working with your leaders.
20:51Please help me as parliamentarians to work with your leaders.
20:54You know which countries in this room.
20:56And I could discreetly inform you, but not in an open session.
20:59Who are sitting on large piles of interceptors.
21:02The Supreme Elephant Commander has said that he totally accepts that a lot of that stuff will now move into Ukraine because that is now clearly the priority.
21:11So wherever you can help to put some pressure on your governments to do that, and some governments are already doing it, Norway announced it, Canada announced it, Turkey announced it, others have announced it, but there is still more to do because this is the difference between life and death, day in, day out, but also how do we protect the crucial infrastructure, energy infrastructure in Ukraine.
21:33So please help there.
21:36I think I've almost answered all the questions, but not totally, because one or two I found too difficult.
21:42But as to our question, I will come back to Wingright.
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