- 2 weeks ago
Healthcare is finally breaking free from closed data silos—isolated medical records locked inside hospitals and systems that patients can’t easily access or transfer.
In this AMA, Dr. Ravi Chamria, Co-Founder & CEO of Zeeve, sits down with Abhimanyu Dayal, Director of AI & Operations at Ulalo, to explore how blockchain, sovereign data ownership, and AI can transform medical records, patient rights, and global healthcare exchange.
Ulalo is building a sovereign Layer-1 blockchain for healthcare, enabling patients to encrypt, store, share, and even monetize their medical records—securely and privately. From AI-powered summaries and multilingual medical reports to doctor dashboards, this conversation dives deep into the full vision of decentralized healthcare infrastructure.
In this AMA, Dr. Ravi Chamria, Co-Founder & CEO of Zeeve, sits down with Abhimanyu Dayal, Director of AI & Operations at Ulalo, to explore how blockchain, sovereign data ownership, and AI can transform medical records, patient rights, and global healthcare exchange.
Ulalo is building a sovereign Layer-1 blockchain for healthcare, enabling patients to encrypt, store, share, and even monetize their medical records—securely and privately. From AI-powered summaries and multilingual medical reports to doctor dashboards, this conversation dives deep into the full vision of decentralized healthcare infrastructure.
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00:00Hi everyone, my name is Ravi and the co-founder and CEO of Zeef and welcome everyone to today's
00:07AMA. This is a conversation I have been personally looking forward because it sits at a very
00:15intersection of three very core problems, healthcare, data ownership, and interoperability.
00:24And I believe that healthcare is one of the last major sectors still running on highly
00:29fragmented institution-centric data models. We have worked with a few other startups who are doing
00:37something in the healthcare space. And as you know, Stanant's insurance went through decentralization
00:46over the last few years with stable coins, tokenization, and so on support. Healthcare,
00:51I believe is just beginning that journey now. So today we have Abhimanyu, who is the director
01:00of AI and operations at Ulalo. Ulalo is building something quite bold, a sovereign blockchain-first
01:07healthcare platform where patients actually own and control their medical data. So I think
01:12it's a very interesting venture and I believe it will be very interesting to talk about what
01:18Ulalo is and how it is going to revolutionize the healthcare sector. So Abhimanyu, great to
01:25have you with us. And let's start with a bit about yourself, how you started your journey
01:31and how your Web3 journey has been so far. Thank you so much, Dr. Ravi. Thank you so much for
01:37our lovely introduction about Ulalo. Yes, just to give more brief about myself. So my name is
01:43Abhimanyu Dayal. I work as the director of AI and operations at Ulalo. My journey in Web3 started back
01:52in 2013 when I started working for a Bitcoin ATM company in the U.S. where we became a liquidity
01:59provider. And then that sort of journey translated more towards the web development application,
02:06led to AI where I was dealing with a lot of facial recognition systems as well in early 2020s.
02:14And then for that, it kind of matured into this Ulalo where we started looking at healthcare data and then
02:22these AI systems and these chat GPTs and LLMs became available. So the natural progress for us was to
02:32look into the intersection or a union where the patient data can be coupled with the idea of LLMs and
02:40can be translated. But one of the main problems that we recognized early on was around the data
02:45privacies and the issues related to that. So we started exploring an idea to build a bulletproof system
02:54which allows users to have a privacy and control over the data and then mature it as a tool for them
03:02where they can use that private data, anonymize it because we wanted to protect patients
03:09identity and turn it into a monetarization source of a partial income from them for the data.
03:16So that's what we tried building in Ulalu. And that has been on journey so far. We've been working
03:23with Z for quite some time and all I can say our experience with them have been absolutely amazing
03:29so far. That's quite a journey Abhimanyu and I think it seems that you know you have
03:36build the required expertise and experience to build something like Ulalu. So if we talk about the
03:47core problem that Ulalu is solving like so today as we know that you know most healthcare systems
03:55are optimized for institutions and not patients and then we on the consumer side understand it very well still
04:02we are very bound to paperwork. Even if there are digital records they are siloed, they are loved
04:11and they are highly inaccessible especially when you know patients need them the most you know during
04:16emergencies or travel or second opinion. So I think patients deserve ownership of their data
04:23so that the data can one you know as you rightly said managing the privacy and security and they
04:31would be able to secure that data but at the same time they would be able to use that data
04:36for various use cases. So what's the biggest gap that you see which you know compelled you to launch
04:50Ulalu and which Ulalu is solving big time? Absolutely Dr. Ravi. So one of the biggest problems that we saw
04:57was data as being unavailable for the patient themselves. These data are kept in hospitals and
05:03different health organizations and you have no idea what is going on with the data neither you can do
05:09anything. With the advent of AI and everything all the treatments everything is going to be data dependent
05:15so you having no access to your data is kind of an exclusionary process for you. You don't really know
05:21what is going on with your health and the biggest problem becomes when you are traveling from one
05:25place to another even if you're going from one hospital or healthcare provider to another there's a lot of
05:30data which is lost. So we name the company Ulalu which means building bridges in Soheili. So we are creating
05:38these connectors, we are creating this platform where you are always in control of the data. It is encrypted
05:44under private key using the same encryption technology which was used in a Bitcoin encryption
05:51as well. So we are using public key and private key cryptography where you encrypt the data and you
05:57keep the data with you and when you go to any other hospital or any other data provider you make your
06:02data available to them. So you first of all know what is going on with you, you have that data available
06:07and then you are able to transport that data from one place to another. So yeah and that's what was one
06:15of the biggest problem that we were trying to solve. While solving this problem another major problem that
06:20we realized was what is happening to the data when it is kept in the hospital. Okay so when it is kept in
06:27the hospital these data are the new oil and it's worth quite a lot of money. So hospitals collect this data and then they
06:33they sell it to the research organizations and everything and they make money. But we believe
06:38that data is your private right. It is your right and it is connected to you. So we are creating a system
06:44where you would be able to directly take your data and sell it to the companies while protecting your privacy
06:52and everything and get paid for it. So if you want to participate for a trial or if you want to submit your data
07:00for a medical research, you can do it and you can basically earn money from that.
07:05Got it. Now I think that's a very interesting point Abhima you have mentioned.
07:09Like you know there has always been a debate about data monetization and real data ownership. Now if
07:15you talk about social platforms I think the narrative is still divided because it's a user-generated content
07:22but since you know users are using a free platform the platform does need to make money somewhere or the
07:29other. But when we talk about hospitals I don't believe there is any reason because patients are
07:34already paying to the hospital for any services they get. So it doesn't make any sense for hospitals
07:40to actually own the patient data and monetize it for their own use. It is I think legally I don't think
07:47it is allowed but as you rightly said it is being used for multiple purposes whether research or any other
07:54purposes which it should not be. So just a follow-up on this, do you think centralized systems can fix this
08:02or is decentralized something at the core of this? 100%. So we are building a decentralized system first
08:10of all so you always remain in control of the data nobody can see or access your data without your
08:16permission. The centralized data are very interesting and they were believed to be this giant systems
08:24that can add a lot of efficiency in the system but the problem is like they become a central point of
08:30failure as well and the stakes are very high to attack the central system from a cryptography point
08:37of view as well to attack the central system and increase and steal the data and that's why you're seeing
08:41all of these data systems in like insurance company and hospitals are regularly attacked and
08:48the data is stolen and your data is available everywhere on the internet without you ever knowing
08:53it till you understand like what is going on. So I was looking at a back end of this insurance pricing
08:59company and what they were doing is like when you would apply for insurance they would go through
09:03all your social media and that's back in 2015 and 16 when the privacy laws and social media were like
09:09kind of little bit up and down right what would they do they would look at your social media and if
09:14you were wearing glasses in any of your images across the internet your insurance premium would
09:18automatically go up and that was so scary for me like you have no idea where your centralized systems
09:24are selling your data without your permission and that became one of my personal interests this this
09:31whole situation was always in our back end and that made me very excited to join Ulalu and to build
09:37this decentralized system where you are 24 7 in control of your data like an NFT which is sold on
09:44like back in the days an open c platform and everything so you would so no matter how many
09:50hands it would change there would be a fee which would be going in your hand and you know exactly who
09:54has your NFT so bringing that with the privacy of a blockchain technology and a decentralization
10:02without a single point of failure that's what inspired us to build this platform got it got it so
10:12as a further follow-up on this now when somebody wants to use decentralization at the core of their
10:18venture then there's always option to run your app on a public chain right in a shared block space
10:26uh in a shared environment uh typically when we see uh d5 apps or uh financial apps or healthcare apps
10:34they tend to launch their own sovereign l1s or an l2 so um um and i think i think a lot of founders
10:42you know they always struggle with this question why not this deploy on an existing chain a public
10:47chain so in the case of ulalo what was your motivation to launch a sovereign l1 instead of uh using a
10:54a shared public chain absolutely absolutely because we wanted to build uh the monetization layer in on
11:01top of uh of on top of our own system with a high throughput and uh for our ease of benefit while
11:08remaining everything like completely transparent uh also lowering our little bit on our infrastructure
11:15cost that's why after a lot of rnd we decided to launch the whole thing on our own l1 because we
11:22thought that the monetization and the data uh anonymity that we want to build and the kind of
11:28performance we want to build out of the system uh would be much better if we have our own public l1
11:35compared to launching in uh on top of a as an l2 or something uh more importantly our ceo is also
11:43extremely technical person he uh has been building these systems in europe for quite a long time
11:51uh so we are discussed and we thought that it would be the best uh that we launch ourselves
11:58on l1 got it i think you have mentioned some great points having your own sovereign l1 means you
12:05control the block space there's no challenges of congestion or token prices you control the data you can
12:14manage the compliances so uh just one question so did regulatory and jurisdictional flexibility also
12:20was was something which influenced the decision or it was mostly on the performance and data ownership
12:26side um it was mainly on the performance but the compliance became a silver lining now the compliance
12:34managing compliance on your own l1 is such a breeze compared to being on a public chain so i think that
12:42that was we didn't think about it at that time but somehow it became a boon uh for us uh at the moment
12:51like we we are kind of slim on the compliance side because we never have any access on people's data
12:57and we are completely compliant with the gdpr as well as uh your hepa regulations because we have access to
13:04no patient data the patients are always in control of data so yeah and uh while having our l1 the compliance
13:12became a much more breeze but that sounds fixed uh so now you know doing a deep diving to uh the ulalo
13:19ecosystem so one i think ulalo as you already said has a smart wallet for each patient and and this ulalo
13:27wallet scans reports they extracts data it stores the proofs on chain and uh it also enables sharing of
13:35the data uh in fact globally so uh can you give us a brief about uh uh the ai and the wallet uh component
13:48of your ecosystem how does it benefit how does it differentiate and what kind of value proposition
13:54patients have or users have absolutely absolutely so what we have is we have an inbuilt library first of
14:00all where you every time you uh upload a document we remove ppi your personal identification information
14:07then this data is like safely fed inside an llm where a simple language translation of your complicated
14:14mri or city scan or your prescription letter is generated that you can have access to and you can
14:20always read about it and it sort of creates your health timeline so you know like oh in few lines you
14:25know what is going on with you what is high what is low and you have a deep understanding of what
14:30went wrong in your for example say blood work or mri so that's a summary creation we do then we take
14:36your data and we kind of put it we generate it as a hash we put it on a blockchain that data is very
14:42safely secured and then we share that hash id with you so you know exactly where your data is stored and
14:49every time you want to share that data you can just uh share it with we would have the sharing features
14:56coming in right now we have uh the storing option which is available it would just be like scanning
15:01a qr code you would be able to scan a qr code of a doctor and share the data with them and they would
15:07be able to see your entire health so there are some diseases which takes time to mature like say
15:1210 year period or something and their diagnosis towards the end becomes extremely difficult towards
15:18the end of the life cycle when the disease is full blown like you don't understand what is the origin of
15:22it if you're able to understand the origin of it you can cure it now when you have the secure data and
15:28you can see all your entire information uh over the last 10 years that becomes very interesting but it
15:36doesn't become just interesting at the point of the data what we are also building is we are building
15:41hospital dashboards as well so your data would flow from your system scan via qr code to a doctor system
15:48where you would have a set of multi-egetic systems who would start analyzing the data analyzing the deep
15:56patterns and would show that deep patterns on the doctor's screen where they would have a much better
16:03insights over you now this would not be that i mean it would be interesting for uh places like with
16:11really good clinicians and very important uh very specialized uh physicians as well uh but
16:17this becomes a very important features for a third world country where you don't have that
16:22many specialized specialists readily available in every single village or town so in every single
16:30village and town you can have doctors a basic doctors who would have who would have this array of
16:36ai agents who would turn them into a specialist performing diagnostics on par with the super
16:43speciality hospitals and that's what is a complete vision of ulalu at the moment got it no i think uh
16:51uh uh this is this is super interesting so it means that you know your approach is that ai is not
16:59bolted as a feature it is embedded into the user journey and and and as you rightly said
17:04uh it can be used uh where you know the doctor patient ratio is is very very poor
17:10uh a lot of developing countries are are facing with this challenge and i think ai can play immense
17:16role to uh just to solve that so just a side question uh uh multilingual healthcare data is
17:24still a nightmare so how close are we to solving that you know we are actually solving it uh step by
17:30step like we are building our entire cms system which would translate uh uh data from one language to
17:37another and we would have four different languages available uh from the next week it would be french
17:43spanish indonesian and english so it would do inter-translation between these languages uh we
17:49would we would be going further and like we want to have all the languages so slowly like every month we
17:55would add one or two different languages we would test it out truly and would make that available into
18:00the application so the summary part where you get the data summary you would be able to see that summary
18:05in your local language you'll be able to translate your prescriptions into different languages and
18:10you would be able to share it or turn it into a pdf which can be shared with your doctor got it
18:16and and does this require digital prescriptions because uh uh reports are are pretty much digital
18:22today but prescriptions are still uh uh most of the times handwritten so because ocr as i believe in
18:29healthcare is is very messy so uh how how do you approach the accuracy part of uh some of yes
18:37absolutely it's it's it's very tricky uh we have the ocr available we are using uh uh one of the best
18:44ocr we actually we are right now we are using uh uh gemini system because we are still in beta but uh
18:50once we come out of beta we want to use um uh deep seek ocr which is one of the best ocr system
18:57in the market but that is definitely going to be a concern and it is going to be a problem
19:03but but what we are doing is we are piggybacking on top of these uh llms and these different products
19:09are coming up so i believe like the future of these ai is are absolutely great so once these ocr
19:17is better we would make them available right now we have some safety checks safety checks in a form
19:22like if you upload a handwritten prescription it shows you that information that is abstracted
19:28and if you see the data which is hallucinated or something you can ask it to re-upload uh to see if
19:34the uh if the hallucination goes away but i would say yeah it is definitely a problem like reading
19:41different different handwriting it's definitely a problem at the at the moment but i am really big
19:47on llm so i think they would should solve it in the future got it oh that's awesome um so uh abhimanyu
19:56ulalo is uh uh has you know taken the journey from testnet to mainnet so what are the major features
20:02which are live today uh what milestones are there and and um you know from a readiness standpoint how
20:10prediction ready it is so that users can start uh using it well users can use it right now like you can
20:16you can upload your data you can have a data summary extracted from ai and everything uh your data
20:24would be secured in ulalo it would always be there it's a decentralized system so we are sharing your
20:29hash ids and everything hash ids of your document and everything so that is all there uh some of the
20:36things or the features which are coming in in the future are uh are like we would be having a cloud
20:42llm infrastructure which is like little expensive for a small company so that is the cost as being a
20:48major factor for us but we would have this cloud llm systems where we would be deploying the uh llms
20:54locally uh on on our infrastructure uh and giving access to an api uh that would be there second we
21:02would have data monetization that would be available so not only you would be able to collect the data you
21:06would be able to uh sell your data to a research after with the privacy features built in of course
21:13and complete control over the data uh third thing is going to be the doctor dashboard which would be
21:18available which would be sort of game changer because you would have like a data going through
21:22a large ai model imagine it as a cursor for healthcare where your data is going to be completely
21:28analyzed and present in in front of a physician who would have a better understanding of your disease so
21:34these are the three critical features which would be coming in the future but the basics putting your
21:39data summarizing the data and even the language and the translation would be available from next week
21:45great uh that that sounds absolutely great so we knew a bit about you know zeev and ulalo partnership
21:54um so we understand that healthcare infrastructure has zero tolerance for downtime and and some of the
22:01the points that you mentioned you know having a dedicated block space with with high performance
22:0724 7 monitoring automated recovery and you know deterministic performance so how how did you know
22:15zeev influence ulalo's reliability and scale 100 we i could say that like i said it in the starting like
22:24you guys have been like absolutely awesome like our relationship with azeev all the things that we
22:29required like they were where even when you're launching our mainnet they were like so many
22:33problems we had a deadline to approach and there was just so much help that uh zeev provided us was
22:39like absolutely a breeze there's always a hundred percent uptime there's absolutely no lapse in
22:46performance and uh yeah i mean this mainnet couldn't be impossible without you guys i mean i can just
22:53say that because i know like uh we were having problems and issues in deploying our mainnet and
22:58you guys were able to help us on that i don't look at the blockchain part that much because i'm
23:03totally involved in the large language side but i could definitely see our slack going completely
23:09crazy with all the problems and the issues that we were facing and yeah thank you so much guys like
23:15because if you we were able to uh get our mainnet up and running on the time now thank you thanks
23:23for the kind words i think it's quite motivating and and i'm sure our team will be very excited to
23:28hear this uh and will they continue to strive uh to you know um help you scale uh because as you
23:36scale your business as you get more users more transactions definitely a highly scalable infrastructure
23:42is something which makes it possible so we are are going to be there every step of the journey that
23:48you take and uh and thanks for the trust you have in us absolutely so much dr ravi and just to make
23:54an announcement we have like some very important partnerships to announce so what dr ravi is saying
23:59the high traffic uh requirements and everything these are going to come in in next few months because we
24:06have been talking to a few companies that i cannot disclose much at the moment but we are definitely going
24:11to be there when where we would require that high throughput of the zif and we would really stress
24:18your servers to the maximum yeah absolutely we are looking forward to it so um uh now we are almost
24:26at the end of the ama um you have already mentioned about some of the features which are which are right
24:31now there and some of the features you are launching soon and just a bit about uh the oola token how
24:37does it strengthen the uh ecosystem you know beyond a standard oh yeah absolutely the oola system
24:43token is like a part of uh the ecosystem what we do with the oola is like we are trying to build
24:50a matching an asiatic matching engine that is uh in the production pipeline at the moment and what it
24:57does is if you're a research company or so one of the biggest problems that we also understand after
25:02talking to people was the medical resource is very limited at the moment because medical
25:06data is not there yet so if you want to do a research about a rare cancer and you could have
25:13doctors sitting in united states who are doing this research whereas someone from malawi would be having
25:19this cancer how do you bridge those things together so we are building an asiatic system that is able to
25:25match these two people and the matching the transaction and everything it's all powered by oola so oola
25:33becomes like absolutely central of oola network and we also want to use that for running smart contracts
25:41and oola system so that would act as a gas as well but the thing main thing is like the asiatic that
25:47exchange of information happens and that transaction is paid with the oola token so that is one of the
25:54main highlights of oola at the moment oh that's that's very super interesting i think having a
26:00solid token economics with a clear utility uh helps build the ecosystem and so that you know all the
26:06actors and because it's healthcare is a big ecosystem you know you have hospitals you have researchers you
26:12have patients you have doctors there are a number of actors and i think right incentives and right utility
26:17will will take the ecosystem uh um you know make it bigger and bigger so uh abhimanyu i think this has
26:25been a fascinating conversation and i think i believe pulalo is not just building a product uh it's
26:33challenging how healthcare data is owned or shared or trusted globally and i think uh you are also
26:40touching upon data monetization which frankly before this amai was not very clear uh and and this is
26:46going to open up big time where if i as a user i as a user you know own my personal health information
26:53and i would be able to monetize it uh in my own way so it's it's super super interesting and for
26:59everyone listening i think uh um go check out ulalo.xyz uh they have a very uh solid app both on uh ios as
27:09well as um google store download use it and uh do follow their twitter and linkedin for more information
27:16keep updated uh with lalo and and do follow abhimanyu um so thanks abhimanyu thanks for joining us
27:26any any points you would like to mention just thought dr avi it's been a pleasure talking to you
27:31today discussing all the details ziv has been such a breeze of a partner like i cannot thank you guys
27:38enough thank you so much for arranging uh this ama uh and yeah i would be looking forward to all the
27:45questions from anyone feel free to reach out to me on my ex or on on our telegram channel and you can
27:51address me directly uh i would be great if you guys can download ulalo application and give it a go
27:57and write us what your experience have been so far with it and yeah looking forward to hearing from
28:03you all thank you thank you thanks abhimanyu thanks everyone for listening and uh uh with that you know
28:10we end this ama uh thank you for joining us today keep building keep staying thank you bye
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