- 2 days ago
Join Dr. Ravi Chamria, Co-founder & CEO of Zeeve, as he sits down with Darpan Keshwani, VP of Marketing at The Binary Holdings, to explore how Web3 is transforming the telecom industry across Southeast Asia. Discover how Binary Holdings is bridging traditional telecom users with blockchain technology and tokenized ecosystems, driving massive user engagement and creating new opportunities for telcos and dApps alike.
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TechTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. My name is Ravi. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Zeev.
00:04And today on Web3 Voice, we have a very exciting AMA with the Binary Holdings.
00:10So if you have ever wondered how Web3 can transform something as large, as essential, and as old school as Silicon, I think today's discussion is for you.
00:22And today we have a very special guest, Darpun Keswani, who is the VP of Marketing at the Binary Holdings.
00:28A company that is not just talking about Web3 adoption, but literally onboarding 169 million users across Southeast Asia through various telecom channels.
00:40So it's my pleasure to welcome Darpun on this AMA.
00:44Hi, Darpun. And Darpun, we would love for you to introduce yourself, tell us about your Web3 journey, tell us about your journey with such an exciting venture in the Web3 space, the Binary Holdings.
00:57Hey, pleasure to be here. And thanks for the warm intro, Dr. Ravi.
01:02Yeah, I met the Zeev team recently at Token. It was nice to see. It was nice to see Thomas and Gunn.
01:08Yeah, so a little bit about myself. I'm part of the marketing team at the Binary Holdings.
01:13My crypto journey, I think it started like most people's do, which is by accident.
01:22But in 2019, I found myself in one of the first layer two projects building on Ethereum.
01:30Back then we were competing head to head with Matic.
01:32However, the company got, I mean, I started as a community guy there, built up a pretty large community of about 150,000 folks,
01:42which I think was like everyone in crypto, like about six, seven years ago.
01:48The layer two then got acquired by a VC called Genesis Block.
01:53So I moved there in the marketing team and I helped a lot of projects, whichever projects Genesis invested in, I helped them go to market,
02:02did my rounds with IDOs, ICOs, IEOs, launch pads, all of that good stuff that is not the meta anymore.
02:10The marketing team for Genesis, so the team that I was working with, were pretty successful.
02:18So we got spun off into an agency.
02:21So I worked there as an account director, handling about eight to 10 clients with names like Illuvium and my neighbor Alice
02:31and trying to get them to sell out their NFTs.
02:35DeFi Summer were just starting, so I experimented a lot, marketed a lot of DeFi protocols.
02:40And post that, I landed at the binary holdings.
02:44I think one of the things that got me really excited about staying in the space, not only like building in it, I guess,
02:51is the pace at which it moves.
02:54It's crazy to see that six years ago, there were only two Ethereum layer twos.
02:59And now there's, I don't know, a thousand.
03:02I think, Dr. Ravi, you are an authority at launching layers and roll-ups.
03:08So you probably know better than I do the final figure.
03:10But just entire ecosystems, infrastructure, stacks, and so on and so forth in just six years.
03:17It's been pretty crazy to see.
03:20No, absolutely.
03:20I think you have had a very exciting journey in the tree.
03:25Working with a layer two in 2019 is pretty cutting edge.
03:29And I'm sure, you know, our bit of optimism were in the building at that time.
03:35There was a paper from Vitalik.
03:37And based on that, you know, a lot of conceptualization happened, whether to launch an optimistic and ZK initiative started.
03:44But as you're right, 2020, when we started seeing DeFi NFTs coming into picture.
03:49So you were part of all those pieces.
03:54Fortunately, I also got into blockchain in 17 and been part of the whole ICO, IEO craze that happened in those four or five years.
04:02So, Darpan, coming to Binary Holdings.
04:11You know, so Binary Holdings, as we understand, has this massive, ambitious vision to rebuild telecom for the decentralized age.
04:19And telecom, I think we are already seeing adoption.
04:21We have clients in telecom space like Vodafone or Deutsche Telekom.
04:26And we are seeing telecom has always been at the forefront of technology adoption.
04:33So for those who are new to it, what exactly is the Binary Holdings?
04:39And what kind of problems you are solving for the telecom operators and users?
04:44Yeah, thanks.
04:46That's a good question.
04:47So I'll give a short intro of what we do.
04:51So basically, the Binary Holdings, we power loyalty programs for telcos in Southeast Asia.
04:58And we do that by inserting decentralized apps inside telecommunication apps to reward users who engage with these dApps, right?
05:08So what we're doing is we're basically helping telcos with customer engagement, understanding customer behavior, and collecting data, of course.
05:18The problem with a lot of telcos in Southeast Asia, and I think just telcos in general, right, is their audience sizes are like, I think, the largest in their nation.
05:29But they're not able to keep their user coming back like an Instagram or a TikTok or, you know, a Twitter would.
05:38You open those apps multiple times a day.
05:40So with telcos, the scenario goes as follows.
05:46You basically open it to pay your phone bill, and then that's it.
05:50You're gone.
05:51So they need better ways to engage users, and they need it.
05:55They need cutting-edge solutions, I guess, that are not expensive, that are plug-and-play, and we basically offer them that.
06:06So I'll just give you, like, if you just visualize with me for whoever's this thing for the first time, how this works is basically, let's say you open up your Geo or your Vodafone app.
06:17You either see a coin icon up top or you see a widget at the bottom that says Lifestyle or something like that.
06:25And once you click on it, it opens up inside the Telco app, an interface that looks like the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store.
06:35But instead of, like, normal Web2 loyalty where someone would have to spend money, earn points, and then spend those points, we've been able to tokenize engagement, which is people play games, various apps, so on and so forth.
06:52They spend time on them, and then they earn our tokens, which is the binary token, which they spend to, you know, basically pay their bills or shop for e-commerce items or collect vouchers, so on and so forth.
07:10Basically, the reason that we started, I guess, doing this, the reason the company was formed was because we saw that gap in Telco loyalty, and especially in Asia, right, where everyone is,
07:22like, like, very, very mobile first.
07:24This is, like, a highly penetrative mobile first market, but people or companies or industries like Telco's with the largest markets are not able to tap into them.
07:34So that was kind of the need of the hour for this, you know, I guess, invention from our side.
07:41Well, that's absolutely fascinating, you know.
07:44When people, most people think about telecom, they think about data plans and SIM cards,
07:48but I think you are talking about engagement, DeFi, tokenized ecosystems, and I absolutely see this as a big leap.
07:56So what essentially I understand is that binary holdings is not just a venture, which is helping monetize,
08:03but it is more like an ecosystem, which is connecting the telecom users with various other apps or utilities,
08:10whether it be SocialFi, whether it be gaming, and that helps the telecom operators to monetize the users,
08:15but at the same time, users get something in the form of binary tokens that they can reutilize.
08:22So basically, it's a win-win for the entire ecosystem operators,
08:26and you are connecting a lot of Web3 ventures out there, telecom users, telecom operators,
08:33within one large ecosystem.
08:35Am I right?
08:36Yeah, that's correct.
08:37I mean, it's beneficial for the telco, but also for, like, crypto as a whole,
08:41because we've, I think so far, basically, when a user opens up, like, or gets a SIM card,
08:48he's already here, she's already pre-KYC'd,
08:51they enter the telco app, and they get a wallet assigned to them, abstracted away by us.
08:57So, so far, I think we've activated about 78 million wallets,
09:00and what we do for the crypto side of things is,
09:04most dApps and most chains, they crave users, right?
09:07So, what we do is, we become that middleware or that interface
09:11through which normal people who don't really play or interact with crypto
09:16can stumble upon these dApps.
09:20So, in essence, what we do is, we function as, like, the Web3 distribution layer,
09:25and any interaction, let's say, with,
09:27so far, we've partnered with about five chains
09:30to put their decentralized apps inside telco apps.
09:33Some of the big names that people might know include
09:36MacChain, Hedera, Avalanche, Lisk.
09:40We put their apps or dApps inside,
09:43people interact with their dApps,
09:45and the transaction data and wallet IDs and so on and so forth
09:49are reflected on the chain that the dApps sit on.
09:54So, in essence, chains and dApps get DAUs
09:57and transactions, and telcos get engagement.
10:02Got it.
10:03No, I think that that's pretty cool.
10:05You know, when, for the last three years,
10:07in various events and conferences,
10:09we have been hearing, onboarding a billion users
10:11in Web3, and I think
10:13you are already doing a substantial, substantial role
10:16in onboarding millions of users,
10:18hundreds of millions of users
10:19into Web3.
10:22So, Darpun, telecom, you know,
10:26has been one of the most powerful industry.
10:29But as far as user engagement are concerned,
10:32and I think you have voiced it very correctly,
10:34the innovation has been a bit slow.
10:37So, traditionally speaking,
10:39what do you think has held telcos
10:41back from real innovation?
10:43And why is now the right amount of change?
10:45And where does, you know,
10:47binary playing a massive role?
10:50And not just in Asia.
10:51I think you have started in Asia,
10:53has onboarded hundreds of millions of users.
10:55But do you see this can be expanded,
10:58model can be taken to other geographies
11:00and other telcos?
11:02Yeah, yeah, for sure.
11:03I mean, I'll answer the last part
11:04of your question first.
11:06Yeah, we're live in Indonesia and Philippines,
11:10largest telcos,
11:11and we're going live in Sri Lanka
11:13and Bangladesh soon.
11:15So, that's kind of, you know,
11:17the progression that we're seeing,
11:18at least from our front,
11:19that telcos are interested,
11:20like the solution.
11:22It's in its early days.
11:23I won't say that it's, you know,
11:25a huge success,
11:26but like a massive, massive,
11:27like super penetrative
11:29everyone who's about it.
11:30But, you know, for early days,
11:31I think we're doing really well.
11:33Another reason, I guess,
11:35why telcos haven't been able to innovate
11:38or stay stagnant
11:40is mostly because of the incompatibility
11:43of like tech stacks.
11:46And the fact that users
11:47who use telcos
11:49or who would want to use a solution like ours
11:51are probably not crypto natives.
11:56They're normal people
11:56who get scared when the interfaces
11:58or the interaction with these apps
12:01becomes too complicated.
12:04So, I think one of our co-founders,
12:07his name is Sid,
12:08he keeps calling telcos dumb pipes
12:10because they don't use the data they have
12:15because they're not able to process
12:17or interact or make sense
12:19with the volume of data that they collect.
12:22So, in order to do that
12:24and some of the solutions
12:25that they've tried
12:26have been way too complicated
12:28both on their end
12:30and the user end
12:31which is why innovation has stagnated.
12:34I have no authority on this.
12:36It's just stuff I've heard
12:37within our meetings.
12:39But if and how we're able
12:42to kind of penetrate
12:42is by simplifying
12:44and gamifying all of this.
12:47So, that's why,
12:48number one, I guess,
12:49that's why innovation has stopped.
12:51And that's what's been
12:52the biggest blocker
12:53which is,
12:54I think everyone knows like,
12:55you know,
12:56UX, UI and all that stuff.
12:57I wouldn't harp on that
12:58but just something
13:00that appeals to
13:01or fits with the tech stack
13:03of both the telco
13:04while appealing to the end user.
13:08So, that's kind of how
13:10how we got started
13:11and what our approach
13:12has been so far.
13:14You brought it.
13:15No, I think that's
13:15that's very insightful.
13:16You know, if you consider telecom
13:18as a large forest,
13:19I think it's very easy
13:19to get lost in the forest.
13:21But since you have,
13:23you're coming from
13:23outside traditional telecom
13:25which often means
13:27that, you know,
13:27you can see the efficiencies
13:28much more clearly, right?
13:32No, I think
13:33that that's super cool.
13:34So, let's, you know,
13:36deep dive a bit
13:37into the binary network.
13:40You have essentially
13:41built a Web3 layer
13:42inside telecom apps.
13:43So, how does that work exactly?
13:45So, just imagine
13:46I'm an average user.
13:48Say, let's say
13:49I'm using Indosat
13:50or Globe Telecom.
13:51What would change
13:52in my daily app experience
13:53because of binary?
13:55Yeah, that's a good question.
13:58So, essentially
13:59the blockchain layer
14:01that we've inserted
14:02is used to dispense
14:04points from us
14:06to the user.
14:09And it's,
14:10that's why we call it
14:11like the distribution layer
14:12because that's,
14:13that's what we do.
14:13We distribute points
14:14from, from users.
14:16And that's also
14:17what allows us
14:18to partner with
14:19basically anyone in crypto,
14:21any chain
14:22to give them access
14:24because
14:24the blockchain layer
14:27is,
14:27our blockchain layer
14:28simply exists
14:29to activate wallets
14:30and send them
14:31the binary tokens.
14:33Now,
14:34if you're like a,
14:35you know,
14:35average Joe
14:36who's using our solution,
14:39nothing changes for you
14:40except the fact
14:41that now,
14:42let's say you're
14:43like a Grab driver
14:44or a Gojek driver
14:45or one of those.
14:46now instead of,
14:48you know,
14:49spending 5,000 rupiah
14:51or 10,000 rupiah
14:52on a phone bill
14:54and it eating away
14:55at your savings,
14:57you now have a way
14:58of engaging
14:59with something
15:00and basically
15:01commoditizing
15:02your time.
15:03So, you get the token
15:04and it's very straightforward
15:05and you can just buy data
15:06or you can just buy
15:07or pay your phone bill.
15:09So,
15:09I think it's good
15:11that nothing changes
15:12and I also think
15:15it's good
15:16that our blockchain
15:17is a very specific
15:18niche use case
15:20that we've kind of
15:22implemented
15:23into the telcos.
15:24And the final thing
15:25and the reason
15:26why we've kept it
15:27like that
15:27is because
15:29this,
15:30a lot of enterprises
15:31struggle with the privacy
15:32side of blockchains,
15:33right?
15:33That's why they opt
15:34for private blockchains.
15:36With this,
15:37I think it's good
15:39that it's transparent.
15:40Like,
15:41if,
15:41let's say you're
15:42like a super crypto
15:43native person
15:43in the Philippines
15:44who actually understands
15:45what's happening,
15:46you can actually check
15:47how much time
15:48you spent
15:49or what interactions
15:50you did
15:50to earn the amount
15:51that you did.
15:52So,
15:53it's one of those
15:54use cases
15:55that just works
15:56for everyone involved.
15:58The Web3 side
15:59of the Web3 folks
16:00or partners
16:01that we have
16:02as well as the telcos
16:03who don't really
16:03have to worry
16:04about privacy
16:04and it actually
16:06works in our
16:06favor that it's
16:07like super
16:08transparent.
16:09And yeah,
16:10nothing changes.
16:12No,
16:12I think,
16:13yeah,
16:13that's pretty smart
16:15because as we
16:16have seen
16:16in any market
16:17economies,
16:18opacity in the
16:20traditional Web2
16:20ecosystem
16:21has been massive.
16:23And,
16:23you know,
16:24whether you take
16:24advertising network,
16:26whether you take
16:26advertiser-publisher
16:28network,
16:28or any kind
16:29of market economy,
16:30you know,
16:31various sectors
16:31always feel that
16:32some monetization
16:34is missing
16:34or whatever
16:35monetization
16:36they are able
16:37to do,
16:37still they feel
16:38that,
16:38you know,
16:38they do not
16:39have full
16:39transparency.
16:41Now,
16:41I think that
16:41that's pretty
16:42cool.
16:43So,
16:43Darpan now
16:44coming to scale,
16:45you know,
16:46169 million users,
16:48that's a pretty
16:48staggering number
16:49and that 143
16:50million active
16:52users,
16:53most Web3
16:53projects,
16:54in fact,
16:55dream of hitting
16:55even 1 million,
16:56right?
16:57We have seen
16:57that most of
16:58the projects
16:59in Web3
16:59are struggling
17:00to get a good
17:01number of users
17:02or transactions.
17:03So,
17:04a couple of
17:05questions,
17:05you know,
17:05one,
17:06how did you
17:07achieve such
17:08a scale
17:08in such a
17:10short time?
17:11And second,
17:12what has been
17:12your challenges
17:13or learning
17:14while onboarding
17:15especially non-crypto
17:16users into
17:16crypto users?
17:17I think this is
17:18something which
17:19lots and lots
17:20of dApps
17:22and other
17:22projects and
17:23other Web3
17:23builders would
17:24be very,
17:25very interested
17:25to know.
17:27Yeah.
17:29It's a question
17:30that I guess
17:30makes you think
17:32as well.
17:33So,
17:34our strategy
17:34was quite
17:35simple.
17:35We just
17:36partner with
17:36the biggest
17:37net,
17:38you know,
17:38telcos have
17:39the biggest
17:40net of people
17:40under their
17:41umbrella.
17:42So,
17:42you partner
17:42with a place
17:44where the
17:44distribution
17:45exists.
17:47That's number
17:47one.
17:48Number two,
17:49what we did
17:49like more
17:50practically,
17:50I guess,
17:51is as soon
17:52as someone
17:52would sign
17:53up or get
17:53a SIM card,
17:54they automatically
17:55get airdropped
17:56like a fraction
17:57of binary,
17:57which in turn
17:59drives curiosity
18:00because if
18:00you have a
18:00floating coin
18:01icon up top
18:02on your
18:03telco app
18:04and it says
18:04that you have
18:05like,
18:05let's say,
18:05two or three
18:06binary or
18:07two or three
18:07gold coins,
18:08then you
18:08probably are
18:09going to
18:09click it
18:10like at least
18:10once,
18:11right?
18:12So,
18:12that was
18:13kind of how
18:13we got
18:14started with
18:14the acquisition
18:16and we
18:18also like
18:18pretty much
18:19continuously
18:20work on
18:21the UX,
18:21UI side
18:22of things
18:22for this
18:23loyalty
18:24program.
18:24Like,
18:25different markets
18:26have different
18:26looking loyalty
18:28programs,
18:29you know,
18:30by us.
18:30Basically,
18:31the dApps
18:31and,
18:32you know,
18:33everything
18:33remains the
18:33same,
18:34but it
18:34just looks
18:34different
18:35across
18:35different
18:35telcos.
18:36So,
18:37it's just
18:37about figuring
18:38out what
18:38works for
18:38that market.
18:40I think
18:40there's like
18:40heavy user
18:41testing and
18:43because our
18:43sample size is
18:44large,
18:44we're able to
18:45make those
18:45changes.
18:47And the
18:47final thing,
18:48I guess,
18:48is that we
18:49hide everything
18:49crypto.
18:51We don't
18:52really mention
18:53that any of
18:54this is
18:54working on
18:55chain.
18:56Because a
18:56lot of
18:57people,
18:57I think it's
18:58just a
18:59reality of
18:59the industry,
19:00right?
19:00A lot of
19:00people have
19:02a solid
19:03image of
19:04what crypto
19:05is and
19:06what Web3
19:06does.
19:07People are
19:08scared.
19:09And I'm
19:10not saying
19:10it's for
19:11bad reason,
19:12right?
19:12People have
19:13been burnt.
19:14So,
19:14we do as
19:15much as
19:15we can
19:16to hide
19:16away
19:16anything
19:18that
19:18mentions
19:18crypto.
19:20Of course,
19:20if you dig
19:20deep enough,
19:21you'll find
19:21it.
19:22But even
19:23the wallet
19:23where your
19:24binary sits,
19:25say you
19:26earned like
19:2620 binary
19:27today,
19:28even that
19:29wallet,
19:29it just
19:30looks like
19:30a normal
19:31wallet.
19:32There's no
19:32obvious
19:34address like
19:35wallet
19:36address and
19:37so on and
19:37so forth.
19:38We just
19:40have to
19:40keep it
19:40abstracted
19:41away.
19:41some of
19:44the more
19:44recent
19:45successes
19:46in our
19:46industry
19:46reflect
19:47that.
19:48I think
19:48Polymarket
19:49is a
19:49fantastic
19:50example.
19:51Most
19:51people who
19:52use
19:52Polymarket
19:52don't
19:52really
19:53know
19:53that
19:53they're
19:53on
19:54chain.
19:54And
19:54that's
19:55kind of
19:55the
19:55philosophy
19:55that we've
19:56adopted
19:56as well.
19:58I think
19:59that's a
20:00great point
20:01that you
20:01have
20:01mentioned.
20:03And I
20:03imagine the
20:04magic lies
20:04in making
20:05Web3
20:05invisible.
20:06Users
20:06enjoying
20:07the
20:07benefits
20:07of
20:08Web3
20:08without
20:08thinking
20:09about
20:10wallets
20:10or gas
20:11fee
20:11or
20:11crypto.
20:12I
20:12think
20:12that's
20:13pretty
20:14smart
20:15out
20:15there.
20:16So
20:16it's
20:16essentially
20:16like
20:17bringing
20:18Web3
20:18apps
20:19or
20:20utilities
20:20within
20:21the
20:21Web2
20:21interface
20:22so that
20:23users
20:23benefit
20:24of
20:24become
20:25part
20:25of
20:25Web3
20:26but at
20:26the
20:26same
20:26time
20:27they
20:27continue
20:29to have
20:29the same
20:29experience
20:30they are
20:30used to
20:30in the
20:31Web2
20:31space.
20:34Exactly.
20:35Yeah.
20:35Cool.
20:37So
20:37now a
20:38bit about
20:39the
20:40technology.
20:41You
20:41initially
20:42launched
20:43on
20:43layer 2
20:44using
20:45OP stack
20:46and we
20:47have been
20:47fortunate to
20:48be part
20:48of your
20:48journey
20:49from
20:50layer 2
20:51to
20:52currently
20:52layer 1.
20:53So now
20:53you have
20:54migrated
20:54to
20:55Avalanche
20:55L1
20:56with Z
20:57being your
20:57infrastructure
20:58partner.
20:59So
20:59what has
21:01been your
21:01motivation
21:02to launch
21:03your own
21:03chain
21:03and how
21:05was
21:05Avalanche
21:06plus
21:06Zeev
21:07combination
21:08has
21:09helped
21:09you
21:09handle
21:10such
21:10a
21:10massive
21:11scale?
21:12So
21:12I think
21:13we've
21:14been
21:14working
21:14with
21:14Zeev
21:15since
21:15I
21:15joined
21:15Binary
21:15which
21:16was
21:16I
21:17think
21:17about
21:17a
21:17year
21:18ago.
21:19We
21:20started
21:20off as
21:21an
21:21OP stack
21:21chain
21:22but
21:22I
21:23think
21:23the
21:23realities
21:24or
21:24the
21:24practicality
21:25was
21:25that
21:25OP
21:25did
21:26not
21:26or
21:26stopped
21:27supporting
21:27custom
21:28gas
21:28tokens
21:28which
21:29we
21:29really
21:29needed
21:29because
21:30that's
21:31kind
21:31of the
21:31currency
21:32that's
21:33accepted
21:33within
21:34like
21:34Telcos
21:34but
21:36I
21:36think
21:37that
21:37transition
21:37or
21:38moving
21:38between
21:38OP to
21:39Avalanche
21:40with
21:41Zeev
21:41was
21:41seamless
21:42I
21:42mean
21:42you
21:43guys
21:43were
21:43instrumental
21:44in
21:45helping
21:45us
21:45picking
21:45a
21:46chain
21:46that
21:46would
21:46be
21:47able
21:47to
21:47not
21:48only
21:48scale
21:48but
21:49also
21:50scale
21:50cheaply
21:51right
21:51because
21:51that's
21:51important
21:52for
21:52a
21:52startup
21:53because
21:54you
21:54know
21:54we're
21:54funding
21:54the
21:55gas
21:55fees
21:55and
21:56all
21:56the
21:57transactions
21:57that
21:57we
21:57process
21:58in a
21:58day
21:58about
21:5830
21:59million
21:59or
21:59so
21:59are
22:01done
22:01flawlessly
22:02so
22:02right
22:03from
22:03pre-migration
22:06to
22:06during
22:07migration
22:07and
22:08also
22:08the
22:09interface
22:09you
22:10provided
22:10us
22:11with
22:11Cogitus
22:12if I'm
22:12pronouncing
22:13that
22:13correctly
22:13has
22:14been
22:14instrumental
22:15in
22:15helping
22:16us
22:16at least
22:16for me
22:17on the
22:17marketing
22:18side
22:18to be
22:19able
22:19to
22:20go out
22:20and get
22:21the
22:21partnerships
22:21that
22:22our team
22:22does
22:23with
22:23different
22:23chains
22:23it's
22:24visible
22:24proof
22:25and
22:25it's
22:25like
22:26non-stop
22:26plus
22:28I guess
22:29one
22:30final
22:30thought
22:30from
22:31my
22:31side
22:31is
22:32the
22:33response
22:34and
22:35the
22:35quick
22:36responses
22:36that
22:37you
22:37guys
22:37offer
22:37is
22:38also
22:38kind
22:38of
22:39a
22:39lifesaver
22:39for
22:39us
22:40so
22:40in
22:41all
22:41aspects
22:41from
22:42tech
22:42to
22:42support
22:43to
22:44even
22:44like
22:44going
22:45beyond
22:45and
22:45doing
22:46some
22:46BD
22:46and
22:47getting
22:47us
22:47in
22:48touch
22:48with
22:48chains
22:48and
22:48foundations
22:49that
22:49would
22:50work
22:51well
22:51with
22:51us
22:51I think
22:52Ziv
22:52is
22:53a great
22:53turnkey
22:54and
22:54overall
22:54partner
22:55that
22:55is
22:56instrumental
22:56in
22:56how
22:57we
22:57operate
22:57today
22:58well
22:59thanks
22:59Darpan
23:00for the
23:00encouraging
23:00words
23:01I think
23:01it has
23:02been a
23:02great
23:03learning
23:03experience
23:03for us
23:04as well
23:04working
23:05with
23:05binary
23:05because
23:06we work
23:06with
23:07quite a
23:07few
23:07enterprises
23:08and
23:08web
23:08free
23:08builders
23:09where
23:09the
23:10compliance
23:11security
23:11requirements
23:12are pretty
23:12high
23:13but the
23:13number of
23:13transactions
23:14are not
23:14that high
23:15you're
23:15one of
23:15the
23:15partners
23:17that we
23:17work
23:17with
23:17which
23:18has
23:18got
23:18a
23:18huge
23:19huge
23:19scale
23:20of
23:21numbers
23:21and
23:23challenging
23:25and
23:25good
23:25learning
23:26experience
23:26for our
23:27team
23:27to
23:28continue
23:28to
23:28innovate
23:29to see
23:30how we
23:31can
23:31continue
23:31to
23:31sustain
23:32higher
23:32numbers
23:33keeping
23:33the
23:34cost
23:34as
23:35low
23:35as
23:35possible
23:35so
23:39it
23:39makes
23:39sense
23:39for
23:40everyone
23:40every
23:40venture
23:41has to
23:42be
23:42commercially
23:42viable
23:43so
23:44it
23:44can
23:44stand
23:45the
23:45initial
23:46teething
23:47issues
23:47challenges
23:48before
23:49it
23:49becomes
23:49successful
23:49and I
23:50think
23:50you
23:50are
23:50already
23:50there
23:51with
23:51so
23:52many
23:52users
23:52it's
23:52just
23:52a
23:53matter
23:53of
23:53monetizing
23:54it
23:54more
23:55and
23:55more
23:55bringing
23:56more
23:56users
23:57more
23:57transactions
23:57and as
23:58this
23:58economy
23:58grows
23:59I
24:00think
24:00the
24:01whole
24:01ecosystem
24:01will
24:01become
24:02very
24:02very
24:02vibrant
24:02thank
24:04you
24:04I
24:05hope
24:05so
24:05too
24:05so
24:06just
24:07a
24:07bit
24:08about
24:08you
24:08know
24:08the
24:09binary
24:10token
24:10and
24:10the
24:10economic
24:11layer
24:11so
24:14now
24:14binaries
24:15is
24:15more
24:16than
24:16a
24:16token
24:16I
24:17would
24:17say
24:17it's
24:18like
24:18an
24:18economic
24:18layer
24:18for
24:19the
24:19entire
24:19ecosystem
24:19so
24:20how
24:21do
24:21you
24:21see
24:21binary
24:21token
24:22evolving
24:22from
24:23rewards
24:23and
24:23cash
24:24works
24:24today
24:24to
24:24something
24:25bigger
24:25like
24:25powering
24:26DeFi
24:27or
24:27digital
24:27identity
24:28use
24:28cases
24:28in
24:29telecom
24:29as
24:30you
24:30know
24:30a lot
24:31of
24:31people
24:31forget
24:33telcos
24:34are already
24:34fintech
24:35companies
24:35in disguise
24:36right
24:36they
24:37handle
24:37millions
24:38of
24:38micropayments
24:38daily
24:39so
24:39how
24:40do
24:40you
24:40see
24:40this
24:41ecosystem
24:41evolving
24:42and
24:42the
24:43larger
24:44role
24:44which
24:44binary
24:44token
24:45is
24:45going
24:45to
24:45play
24:45I
24:47think
24:47first
24:47of
24:47all
24:47that's
24:48a
24:48great
24:48observation
24:48that
24:49telcos
24:50are
24:50fintechs
24:50in disguise
24:51that's
24:52an angle
24:52that
24:52even
24:53I
24:53hadn't
24:53thought
24:53about
24:53so
24:54that's
24:54awesome
24:54I'm
24:55going
24:55to
24:55use
24:55that
24:56for
24:56my
24:56marketing
24:56material
24:57thanks
24:58but
24:59okay
25:00for
25:00the
25:01token
25:01right
25:01now
25:01we
25:03essentially
25:03keep
25:04it
25:04within
25:05the
25:05telco
25:06ecosystem
25:06and
25:06we
25:07haven't
25:09enabled
25:09or
25:09facilitated
25:11any
25:11off-ramps
25:11how I
25:12see the
25:12token
25:13evolving
25:13is
25:14basically
25:15this
25:17becomes
25:17a method
25:18of
25:18remittance
25:19on-chain
25:20for
25:20various
25:21telco
25:21users
25:22across
25:23companies
25:24and I
25:25think
25:25after that
25:26the
25:26possibilities
25:26are endless
25:27like
25:27for example
25:28you're a
25:28Vodafone
25:29customer
25:29and I
25:30am a
25:30Geo
25:31customer
25:31say we're
25:33relatives
25:34and you're
25:34my chacha
25:35and you're
25:35sitting abroad
25:36and you
25:36know I'm
25:37sitting in
25:37India
25:37and you
25:38have about
25:38a thousand
25:39binary points
25:39and I
25:40have 500
25:41and I
25:41need a
25:42thousand
25:42binary points
25:43to buy
25:43or redeem
25:44an iPhone
25:44right
25:45and if you
25:46can send
25:46me that
25:47then I
25:48think that
25:48changes
25:48the game
25:49right
25:49not only
25:50for
25:50intra
25:51company
25:51collaboration
25:52but just
25:53the
25:54utility
25:54of
25:55just
25:55how tokens
25:56work in
25:57crypto
25:57today
25:57it
25:58becomes
25:58more
25:59than
25:59just
25:59a
26:00speculative
26:01investment
26:02but it
26:03becomes
26:04something
26:04that has
26:05real value
26:05and real
26:06utility
26:06if we
26:08take a
26:09more
26:09grounded
26:10example
26:10for example
26:11like
26:11if
26:12you know
26:13there's a
26:15family
26:15that is
26:16in a
26:17lower
26:17income
26:17strata
26:18and they
26:19believe that
26:20they can
26:20pool
26:20loyalty
26:21points
26:21you know
26:22that
26:23and that
26:24would save
26:24them a
26:25bunch
26:25of
26:25money
26:25that's
26:26also
26:26a
26:26possibility
26:27within
26:27the
26:28same
26:28network
26:28provider
26:29and
26:29finally
26:29once
26:31a
26:31framping
26:32is
26:32enabled
26:32and I'm
26:33not
26:34saying it's
26:35enabled
26:35being enabled
26:36like
26:36tomorrow
26:36but once
26:37the right
26:37partners are
26:38in place
26:38and once
26:39this becomes
26:40a viable
26:41method
26:41then I
26:43guess the
26:43impact
26:44becomes
26:44even more
26:45real
26:45because
26:45then your
26:46actual
26:46your time
26:47can truly
26:48be
26:48commoditized
26:49for money
26:50because
26:50right now
26:52the way
26:53socials
26:54and the
26:54way
26:54things work
26:55is that
26:55you must
26:56spend money
26:56to make
26:57money
26:57and then
26:58you
26:58it's
26:59like
26:59it's
27:01it's
27:02like
27:02almost
27:03like
27:03an
27:03aura
27:03verse
27:04cycle
27:04right
27:04so
27:05honestly
27:07it's
27:07exciting
27:08I think
27:10the
27:10magic
27:11lies
27:11in
27:12the
27:12execution
27:13but
27:14yeah
27:14I think
27:15honestly
27:16for me
27:16you know
27:17just
27:17sitting
27:18within
27:18the
27:18company
27:18the
27:19possibilities
27:19are
27:19endless
27:20and I
27:21hope
27:21we can
27:22achieve
27:23what we
27:23set out
27:23to do
27:24no I
27:26think
27:26that's
27:27absolutely
27:28a very
27:29exciting
27:30point that
27:31you mentioned
27:31you know
27:32the way
27:33I see
27:33it you know
27:33millions
27:34of users
27:35across the
27:35globe
27:36connected
27:37using a
27:37token
27:37and that
27:38creates
27:39massive
27:39utility
27:39one of
27:40the use
27:40cases
27:41I was
27:42working
27:42in the
27:43early
27:43blockchain
27:44days
27:44was
27:44loyalty
27:44points
27:45now
27:45that's
27:46a very
27:46clean
27:47established
27:47use
27:48case
27:48for
27:48blockchain
27:48but the
27:49challenge
27:49is
27:49if you
27:50bring in
27:51fungibility
27:52of tokens
27:52and loyalty
27:53you know
27:54it
27:54basically
27:55contradicts
27:57the loyalty
27:57itself
27:58right
27:58but then
27:59having
27:59another
28:00token
28:00where
28:01you know
28:01you can
28:02monetize
28:02it in
28:03different
28:03ways
28:03I think
28:04it goes
28:05beyond
28:05loyalty
28:06towards
28:06one
28:06specific
28:07organization
28:07so I
28:08think
28:08this
28:08is
28:08I'm
28:11just
28:11thinking
28:11loud
28:11but
28:12there
28:12can
28:12be
28:13a lot
28:13of
28:13exciting
28:14use
28:14cases
28:15that
28:15can
28:15come
28:15out
28:15of
28:16the
28:16way
28:16binary
28:17structure
28:17today
28:18yeah
28:19I think
28:20it's
28:20really
28:20cool
28:20and
28:20I
28:21think
28:21it
28:21will
28:22if
28:22executed
28:23right
28:23I
28:23think
28:23it
28:23will
28:24change
28:24how
28:25you
28:26know
28:26crypto
28:26companies
28:27and
28:27web
28:28companies
28:28are run
28:29absolutely
28:31absolutely
28:31absolutely
28:32so
28:32now we
28:33are coming
28:33to the
28:33end
28:34of our
28:34AMA
28:35just
28:35a bit
28:36about
28:36the
28:37future
28:38vision
28:38so if
28:39we
28:39zoom
28:39out
28:39let's
28:40say
28:40two
28:40to
28:40three
28:40years
28:40from
28:41now
28:41how
28:42do
28:42you
28:42see
28:42web3
28:42transforming
28:43the
28:43telecom
28:44landscape
28:44or the
28:44other
28:45way
28:45around
28:45as well
28:45you
28:45know
28:45telecom
28:46transforming
28:47the
28:47web3
28:48ecosystem
28:48so do
28:49you
28:49imagine
28:49every
28:50telco
28:50having
28:50its
28:51own
28:51blockchain
28:51layer
28:52token
28:52economy
28:52or
28:53even
28:53DeFi
28:54marketplace
28:54I
28:56am
28:56not
28:56sure
28:57about
28:57the
28:57DeFi
28:57marketplace
28:58because
28:58I don't
28:59think
28:59you know
29:00from
29:01what I
29:01see
29:02I don't
29:02think
29:02people
29:02are
29:02there
29:03yet
29:03DeFi
29:05protocols
29:06are
29:06inherently
29:07at least
29:07in their
29:08current
29:08state
29:08complicated
29:09and I
29:10struggle
29:10to use
29:11them
29:11sometimes
29:11and I've
29:12been in
29:13the industry
29:13for a
29:14while
29:14now
29:14so I
29:15think
29:15DeFi
29:16is going
29:16to be
29:16one of
29:17those
29:17things
29:17that
29:17if you
29:19crack
29:19it
29:19then
29:19you're
29:20good
29:20in terms
29:23of how
29:23I see
29:23telcos
29:24evolving
29:24I feel
29:25like
29:25there
29:26will
29:26be
29:26a
29:27greater
29:27emphasis
29:27on
29:28engaging
29:29their
29:29customers
29:30and
29:30doing
29:30that
29:31with
29:31blockchain
29:32technology
29:33and
29:33with
29:33tokenization
29:34and
29:36finally
29:36I think
29:36the biggest
29:37impact
29:37would be
29:39within
29:39the
29:39Web3
29:40space
29:40as in
29:41you know
29:43builders
29:43when they
29:45have a
29:45distribution
29:45channel
29:46as large
29:47as
29:47we can
29:48provide
29:48can work
29:50on
29:51optimizing
29:51how
29:52their
29:53apps
29:53look
29:54feel
29:54and
29:54work
29:55because
29:56a lot
29:56of
29:57apps
29:57pigeonhole
29:57themselves
29:58to
29:59working
29:59for
30:00crypto
30:00natives
30:01just
30:01in
30:01terms
30:02of
30:02from
30:02interface
30:03to
30:03tokenomics
30:05to
30:05features
30:06and so
30:06on and
30:07so
30:07forth
30:07but
30:07I
30:08think
30:08the
30:09crypto
30:09native
30:10pie
30:10is
30:10small
30:11and
30:13the rest
30:14of the
30:14pie
30:15is
30:15very
30:16big
30:16so
30:17yeah
30:18I think
30:18in those
30:19three
30:19aspects
30:19it would
30:21be nice
30:21if we
30:21can
30:21if we
30:22can get
30:23to where
30:23we're
30:23going
30:24absolutely
30:25and we
30:27wish all
30:27the best
30:28to
30:28binary
30:28holdings
30:29and
30:29we
30:30are
30:31very
30:31very
30:31excited
30:31to
30:32partner
30:32with
30:32you
30:32in
30:33this
30:33journey
30:34so
30:36thanks a
30:37lot
30:37for
30:38this
30:38exciting
30:39insightful
30:39and
30:40fascinating
30:40session
30:41I think
30:42it's
30:43actually
30:44fascinating
30:44to see
30:45how telecom
30:47something we
30:47use daily
30:48might actually
30:49be the
30:49hidden
30:51driver of
30:51Web3
30:52mass
30:52adoption
30:52I
30:54simply
30:54love the
30:55way
30:55you are
30:55trying to
30:56make people
30:56learn
30:57Web3
30:57making it
30:59disappear
31:00into their
31:00everyday
31:01experience
31:01rather than
31:02forcing it
31:03on them
31:04so it's
31:06very
31:06very
31:06fascinating
31:07and very
31:08exciting
31:08session
31:08to have
31:09with you
31:09and we
31:10continue
31:10to have
31:11more
31:11sessions
31:11with you
31:11so that
31:12our users
31:13our listeners
31:14would be
31:15delighted
31:15by your
31:15insights
31:16thanks a
31:17lot
31:17thanks a
31:17lot
31:17once again
31:18for joining
31:19us
31:19thank you
31:19thank you
31:20guys for
31:20organizing
31:20and hosting
31:21me
31:22appreciate
31:22it
31:22thanks
31:23everyone
31:23do check
31:24out the
31:24binary
31:25holdings
31:25their
31:25website
31:26their
31:26twitter
31:26account
31:27they are
31:27very
31:27active
31:28it's a
31:28very
31:28very
31:29exciting
31:29venture
31:29if you
31:30are a
31:31Pelicom
31:31user
31:31within
31:33Indonesia
31:33or
31:34Southeast
31:35Asia
31:35Thailand
31:36etc
31:36you must
31:37already
31:37be using
31:37binary
31:38do check
31:39out
31:39very very
31:40exciting
31:41and with
31:42that
31:42thanks a lot
31:43for listening
31:43thanks a lot
31:44for joining
31:44keep building
31:46keep smiling
31:47you
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