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00:00You shot a dog that wasn't doing anything.
00:08What's your problem?
00:09I don't know.
00:09That's not an answer.
00:10Well, I did shoot the dog.
00:12You have no right to shoot any dog.
00:14This is Judy Justice.
00:30Michael and Perry Butler are suing their neighbors, Michael Welch Jr. and Lisa Welch, for vet bills.
00:41Court come to order.
00:42All rise.
00:44Have a seat, please.
00:47Judge, case 4024, Butler v. Welch.
00:50You're welcome.
00:51Mr. Butler Sr.
00:53Yes.
00:54This is your grandson.
00:55Yes.
00:55You live on a piece of property, a rural piece of property, and that property is owned by whom?
01:01By me.
01:02And you've owned that property for how long?
01:05About 20 years.
01:06And the defendants, are they tenants of yours?
01:09No.
01:10They live close by?
01:12They have an RV parked on part of my property.
01:16With your permission?
01:18With my son's permission.
01:19So your son lives on the property with the defendants?
01:22Well, he lives on the property.
01:24Well, who's going to explain this to me?
01:26You're going to explain it to me?
01:26Come on, stand up.
01:28Your last name is Butler.
01:29Yes.
01:30Your father owns property.
01:32Yes.
01:32And you live on your father's property.
01:35Yes.
01:35In a house or an RV?
01:37House.
01:37How do you know the defendants?
01:39Just old friends.
01:40Did you allow them to move their RV onto the property?
01:43Yes, I did.
01:44Michael, I did.
01:45Michael.
01:46My father, yes.
01:47That's you.
01:48The one sitting down.
01:49Okay, so you're friends.
01:50Yeah.
01:51And your father allows you to do that.
01:53Yes.
01:54Just my own information.
01:55Do you pay Mr. Butler any rent?
01:57Give it to Scott.
01:59How much?
01:59$400 a month.
02:00And your dad knows about that?
02:02Yes.
02:02Okay, very good.
02:03And this beautiful dog belongs to you?
02:05Yes, that's correct.
02:06Have a seat.
02:09Now, Mr. Butler Jr., you don't live with your dad or your granddad?
02:15No, I do not.
02:16According to what I read, and I believe this is right,
02:18there came a time when you were going away to celebrate a wedding of a friend.
02:22We were going to my niece's graduation.
02:25And what date was the graduation?
02:27June 1st.
02:28And so you couldn't take the dog with you, so you asked your grandfather and or your dad
02:34if you could leave the dog.
02:36And the dog's name is?
02:37Ruka.
02:38If you could leave Ruka with them for a couple of days.
02:41Correct.
02:41Many times when we travel.
02:42How many days?
02:43I believe it was about a week.
02:44Okay, on what date, do you remember, did you leave Ruka with your dad?
02:49I believe it would have been the 29th, and the incident was the morning of the 30th,
02:54if I remember correctly.
02:55Because we were leaving the day the incident happened.
02:57We were flying out, so we got a call that morning before we took off.
03:00Okay.
03:01So this is what I think happened.
03:03Your last name is?
03:04Welch.
03:05Mr. Welch, you lived with?
03:06Um, my mom and my father, yeah.
03:08Great.
03:09And you have chickens and some ducks.
03:12Actually, Scott's the one with the chickens and the ducks, and while he went to jail,
03:16I told him I would take care of the animals and not let any harm come to them, so...
03:21So they belong to Scott?
03:23Yes.
03:24Okay.
03:24You live with your parents?
03:27Yes, in a camper outside of the property, yes.
03:31In a camper?
03:32Yes, I live in a camper outside of the property.
03:34Do you pay any rent?
03:35No.
03:35Nice people.
03:36You want them off your property or you want them on your property?
03:39We've asked them to leave.
03:40Really?
03:41The owner of the property wants you off the property.
03:43What's your problem?
03:44My husband just went through hip replacement a couple weeks ago, so he's been down for six weeks.
03:51How did he get here?
03:52No, he just got his hip replaced.
03:54He just walked into court?
03:55Yeah, he did that two or three weeks ago, so he's...
03:58What difference does it make?
03:59They asked you to leave the property.
04:00How long have they been asking you to leave the property?
04:03Scott told us that we didn't have to leave.
04:05Perry's the one that said...
04:07Scott doesn't own the property.
04:10His father owns the property.
04:12Am I hearing that right?
04:14That's right.
04:14The owner of the property wants your camper off their property.
04:19What's your problem?
04:20Nothing.
04:21When are you going to leave?
04:23As soon as we can.
04:24What does that mean?
04:25You start your motor home and you go.
04:27And you go to a motor home camp and you plug in someplace else.
04:32Our motor home is not starting.
04:34That is the problem.
04:35No, that's your problem.
04:36Yes, that is my problem.
04:38That's your problem.
04:39You can't squat on somebody else's property because you've got a problem.
04:43They want you to leave and they want you to leave for a reason.
04:46And this is part of the reason.
04:47Because he dropped off his dog.
04:49A week before, in mid-May, according to you, a dog came on the property that doesn't belong to you
04:57and took away chickens or ducks that also don't belong to you.
05:02So far, I have that right?
05:04Yes, you do.
05:05And they came back and forth and back and forth, these dogs, for a while.
05:09How long?
05:10A week, two?
05:11Just two days.
05:12Two days.
05:13Yeah.
05:13What two days?
05:15Pretty sure it was May 27th and May 26th.
05:2126th and 27th.
05:22Yes, the first day he took a duck.
05:25I don't care what he took.
05:26Okay.
05:27That's not relevant.
05:28They weren't your ducks.
05:29They belonged to them.
05:31They weren't your chickens.
05:32And it's not your house.
05:34It's not your property.
05:35So what you did on the 30th is, according to you, dogs came back on your property.
05:42A dog came back on your property on the 30th that you had seen taken to ducks and the chickens before.
05:50That's what you say.
05:51It was actually a misunderstanding because the neighbor had a dog exactly like his,
05:57and that was the dog that was doing it.
05:58And I made a terrible mistake, and it really went further than it should have.
06:03I shouted for the dog to stop, and it did not.
06:06Bottom line is, you shot a dog.
06:12You shot the dog multiple times.
06:15With a BB gun.
06:16The BB gun.
06:17Would you like me to do that to you multiple times and then try to say to you,
06:20you know, it's just a BB gun.
06:21Just stand there.
06:22Don't be a sissy.
06:24It's just a BB gun.
06:25It can only sting you.
06:26And later today.
06:28Your lawyer said, well, let's rattle the cage a little bit.
06:32Tell her she can't take the boy to Japan.
06:35That's what you say happened.
06:36Michael and Perry Butler claim their neighbors, Michael Welch Jr. and Lisa Welch,
06:51owe for vet bills.
06:53Michael Jr. says he shot their dog while protecting the other animals on the property.
06:58You shot a dog.
07:00With a BB gun.
07:01His dog injured the dog.
07:04This dog that wasn't doing anything.
07:07And there were over $4,000 in surgical bills because he made a mistake.
07:13Yes.
07:13So what are we doing here?
07:14Why didn't you take care of the medical bills?
07:17We don't feel like we should have.
07:18I'll just a second.
07:19I don't care about you.
07:21Yeah, I didn't take care of the medical bills because I didn't feel like I should have to be put the whole bill on me.
07:27Let me ask you this question.
07:29I wasn't holding the gun with you, right?
07:31No.
07:31Sarah Rose, she said you never saw her before.
07:34No, no.
07:34She wasn't holding the gun with you.
07:36No.
07:36Now, your mom didn't say to you, shoot the dog.
07:39Did your father tell you to shoot the dog?
07:41No.
07:42So you did that all by yourself?
07:44Just answer my question.
07:45That requires a yes or no.
07:47You shot the dog all by yourself.
07:49Well, yes, I shot the dog myself.
07:52Right.
07:53Yes.
07:53So now that you say you shot the dog yourself, you shot the wrong dog, right?
07:59Yes.
07:59You had no right to shoot any dog.
08:01But this dog certainly hadn't been on your property before because it had only been dropped off the night before.
08:06This was a visiting dog.
08:07Let's say instead of a visiting dog, he dropped off his twin boys, and they would come on the property and chase the ducks and chase the ducks and chase the ducks, and then they would go home.
08:17And then another kid that was pretty much the same size as those kids came on your property, and you thought that that kid was the one that was torturing your ducks, stealing your chickens.
08:28So you shot the wrong kid.
08:30No, I wouldn't do that.
08:31Why not?
08:32Because that's a child.
08:33Really?
08:34Yeah.
08:34So you think that shooting somebody else's property, attacking somebody else's property, and you shot the dog multiple times.
08:43With a BB gun.
08:44And the BB gun.
08:46Would you like me to do that to you multiple times and then try to say to you, you know, it's just a BB gun.
08:50Just stand there.
08:51Don't be a sissy.
08:53It's just a BB gun.
08:54It can only sting you unless you get it in the eye or unless you get it in a vital organ.
08:58I wasn't shooting at vital stuff.
09:01I was shooting at the body of the animal.
09:03I wasn't trying to shoot at its head or its eyeballs or anything like that.
09:06Then you say, I'm sorry.
09:08I made a terrible mistake.
09:09I will take care of the vet bills because I made a mistake.
09:13It's my mistake.
09:15Why are we here?
09:16I understand.
09:16You're right.
09:17Perfect.
09:18When are you moving off the property?
09:19As soon as I get back there.
09:21As soon as you get back there.
09:22How far away is it?
09:24I'd say about three hours away.
09:25It's in North Palm Springs.
09:26Fine.
09:27You have a car?
09:28My car is broken.
09:30That's why I'm still there.
09:31It's because my car is broken.
09:33How long has your car been broken?
09:35Probably about a little bit over nine months.
09:38Mm-hmm.
09:38Other than camping out on the property, what else do you do?
09:41Also, I'm not on the property, actually.
09:44I'm off of their property in BLM land.
09:47In where?
09:47I'm on Bureau of Land Management land.
09:51I'm not on Scott's...
09:52So you're on my land?
09:54Probably.
09:54I didn't give permission to be on my land.
09:56What are you doing on my land?
09:58I don't know.
09:59I guess I was just hanging out there.
10:03Can I see the vet bills, please?
10:05Yes.
10:06Scott.
10:07Yes.
10:11What were you doing in prison?
10:13I was in jail.
10:14For what?
10:16Receiving stolen property.
10:17What kind of property?
10:18I was buying and selling cars, and I had some I shouldn't have had.
10:22Okay.
10:22And how long did you spend incarcerated?
10:25Three months.
10:26Okay.
10:27Do you work?
10:28Yes.
10:29What kind of work do you do?
10:30I do boilers now.
10:31When did you first tell them that you would like them to leave the property?
10:34It was about six months ago.
10:36Michael Jr. is the one I told to leave.
10:38Just him?
10:39Michael Sr. has been there for a while, and I've always got along with him.
10:42And then Lisa sort of came back onto the property, and so did Michael Jr., which I never wanted him there.
10:48But you just wouldn't leave.
10:51You know what you did to the animal that you thought was on your property that wasn't your own?
10:57Did you ever think that you're on property that's not your own?
11:00Oh, I knew I was.
11:01You know you are.
11:02I'm trying to draw an analogy there for you, sir.
11:04You're missing it.
11:05No, no, I didn't miss it.
11:06I understood what you're saying, but I totally understand now what is going on.
11:11Well, get off his property.
11:12No problem.
11:13What are these three $50 receipts for?
11:16Uh, Lisa agreed right after the shooting to pay the bill, and then she paid me two $50 amounts, which I gave her receipts for.
11:27Okay, judging for the plaintiff in the amount of $4,156.48.
11:32Thank you very much.
11:34This court is adjourned.
11:37Well, I appreciate the fact that she ruled in the way that she did.
11:40I feel like we've gotten justice for Ruka.
11:42When I called and told him that I'd shot the dog, he mentioned a few hours later that it was his son's dog.
11:50And also the fact that my grandpa can be reimbursed for, you know, the hardship of having to take care of this.
11:56Time to find another place.
11:59I was under the impression, maybe you were too from the papers, that the ducks and the chickens and the other animals that the defendant was claiming to be protecting belong to him.
12:08Only right now in court did we find out that they actually belong to the plaintiff.
12:12And so there is no defensive property claim that he could claim for his actions.
12:17But I think at the end of the day, he accepted responsibility.
12:20He knows he did the wrong thing.
12:21Why it had to come in front of us to get solved.
12:24Because he didn't pay the bill.
12:25All right.
12:25On to the next.
12:26On to the next.
12:28Case number 4007.
12:30Rodriguez versus Vidari.
12:31All parties, please come forward.
12:33Selma Rodriguez is suing her former daughter-in-law, Natalie Vidari, for the cost of canceling a trip to Japan.
12:42Ms. Vidari, this is your former mother-in-law.
12:44Correct.
12:45Your former mother-in-law is suing you for the cost of a trip that she paid for, for your 14-year-old son, a trip to Japan that was canceled by you in a time frame when she could not get any refunds on the trip for your son.
13:01That's what your case is about, correct?
13:03Yes, correct.
13:04So I'm going to recite what seems to me to be sort of an agreed set of facts based upon your complaint and your answer.
13:14But I have to start with you.
13:16How long had you been married to her son?
13:20We were married for 13 years.
13:21And you have two children together.
13:23Correct.
13:23One is 14.
13:25What's his name?
13:26Vittorio.
13:27Who is this?
13:27My son, Vittorio.
13:29Step outside.
13:34I don't think he has to be here.
13:38Okay.
13:39Vittorio and?
13:40Mila.
13:41How old is she?
13:42She's eight.
13:43And those are your only two children?
13:45Yes.
13:45Do you work?
13:46Yes, I do.
13:46What kind of work do you do?
13:48I'm in customer service for the automotive industry.
13:50When were you divorced?
13:5117, 18.
13:52It was finally official.
13:54In what year were you divorced, sir?
13:552019.
13:56And during the period of time of your divorce, after it was finalized, your mother-in-law has maintained a relationship with both of your children.
14:05Yes.
14:05And she's even traveled with one or more of your children.
14:09Yes.
14:09Independently of you and her son.
14:12It's outrageous behavior, in my judgment, for you to think that you are a sole parent, that you can take these two children on a whim to another state when they have an ongoing relationship with a custodial parent.
14:29Selma Rodriguez claims her former daughter-in-law, Natalie Vadari, canceled a trip with her grandson to Japan, costing her thousands in non-refundable fees.
14:50So she's taken the 14-year-old away on vacation.
14:54She has.
14:55Tell me where she's taken him.
14:57Um, she's taken him to Alaska.
14:59She's taken him to Tennessee.
15:02And I assume that the two children, since one of the children was here, that they live with you full-time.
15:07We split custody.
15:08So they're back and forth at my house and their father's house.
15:11Now, when was it for the first time that your mother-in-law expressed an interest in taking your son on a trip to Japan?
15:20Oh, I want to say...
15:22You don't remember our last car.
15:24January.
15:25Of what year?
15:262024.
15:27And there were several things that had to be done.
15:29One of the things that had to be done is that your son's passport had expired.
15:33Yes.
15:33And what did you have to do to update his passport?
15:37We had to go to the post office and renew his photo and his information.
15:40And you did that with him?
15:42Yes.
15:42And do you remember what month you did that?
15:44I believe in January.
15:45And that was all for the purpose of getting ready for this trip to Japan, which was supposed to take place when?
15:50The departure date was May 28th.
15:53Now, on what date did your lawyer tell you you shouldn't let your 14-year-old go to Tokyo?
15:59That was back in April.
16:01You have a boyfriend?
16:03Yes.
16:03How long have you had your boyfriend?
16:05We've been together for three years now.
16:06What does he do?
16:07He's a veteran.
16:08He's retired.
16:09He lives off a pension.
16:11Yes.
16:11So let me understand this.
16:13Your children have a close relationship with their paternal grandmother.
16:17They split custody with their father and you.
16:19And according to your answer, what you wanted to do was take your children and move with your boyfriend, who is unemployed, to Montana.
16:28That's what you said.
16:29We're relocating.
16:30You wanted to move with your boyfriend to Montana.
16:34Yes.
16:35Not because he had a job there that he had to have or because he had to have long-term surgery and recuperation, but because you liked it better.
16:45Because of the cost of living.
16:46We can't afford to live here in California.
16:48So we're looking to relocate.
16:49You want us to get a job.
16:50You have a job.
16:51You've been divorced for a while.
16:53You've been able to sustain yourselves here.
16:56And if he's retired, let him get a job.
16:59So what happened is your former husband said to you, I'm not giving you permission to take my children, who I share custody with, from California to Montana.
17:10Does that sound crazy to anyone?
17:12And after it became contentious and you're currently in court, is that right?
17:17It's in the works.
17:18It's in court.
17:19Your lawyer said, well, let's rattle the cage a little bit.
17:23Tell her she can't take the boy to Japan.
17:26That's in your answer, right?
17:28Okay.
17:28Well, you're going to pay for the trip that he didn't go on, that she paid and couldn't get a refund on.
17:34That's outrageous behavior.
17:36First of all, madam, it's outrageous behavior, in my judgment, for you to think that you are a sole parent, that you can take these two children on a whim, nothing but a whim, to another state,
17:48when they have an ongoing relationship with a custodial parent, and think that that's okay.
17:54Where do you come off thinking that's okay?
17:56To be honest, Your Honor, like, it's not off a whim.
17:58We have pre-approval, you know, to...
18:00You have what?
18:01Pre-approval of a home loan to move to my town.
18:04We have everything set, so it's not just on a whim.
18:07Just a second!
18:08Who told you to get everything set?
18:10That's absolutely ridiculous.
18:12So you made these plans, knowing that you have two children, 14 and 8, who have serious ties in California.
18:23Sometimes people, when they have visitation every other Tuesday, if the moon is full with a child, and parties remarry, and somebody is being sent by the army to Montana,
18:35Well, a judge may say, listen, if we make arrangements for them to visit that one day every Thursday when there's a full moon, okay.
18:43But your children have a parent here, the same kind of parent as you are.
18:47How would you feel if he said, you know what, I'm going to take the kids?
18:50I think that I have better opportunities for the children in Tennessee.
18:54Before all this, we did have an agreement already on the schedule and everything with the kids.
18:58We just had to make it, you know, go to court and get it approved and everything.
19:01It's not just off of a whim.
19:03It is a whim, and it's not in the best interest of children.
19:06Your 14-year-old has grown up knowing both of his parents.
19:09And because you've got an unemployed boyfriend and want to make a change of life for yourself, you think that you can disrupt these children.
19:17Leave them with their father.
19:18I'm sure his mother will be more than happy to help take care of them if he's working.
19:22You working?
19:23I am.
19:23In any event, how much was the cost of the trip?
19:25$38.65.
19:26May I see, please?
19:35What's your last name?
19:37Vidari.
19:37Could you stand up next to your mother, please?
19:40Were you consenting to her moving your two children to Montana?
19:44No.
19:45When was the first time she told you she wanted to move the children to Montana?
19:49December of 2023.
19:51And what happened?
19:52We just never really talked about it until about April of this year.
19:56And I told her, like, what I would feel comfortable with was if she already had a home, already had a job there.
20:05Because I wasn't comfortable with the situation she was putting herself in.
20:09That didn't happen.
20:10She was angry.
20:11Okay.
20:12Is it currently before the court, this application to relocate?
20:15I have no idea.
20:16You have it before court?
20:18We haven't gone there yet, Your Honor.
20:20You have a lawyer?
20:21Yes.
20:21Did your lawyer serve papers on him?
20:23Not yet.
20:24Okay.
20:24I'm going to suggest it's a monumental waste of time.
20:27Any judge worth this or would deny your application to relocate.
20:31I would deny it.
20:31As a family court person for 25 years, I would deny it in a heartbeat.
20:36Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $38.65.
20:38You're responsible for the cost of the trip.
20:40You had no reason to cancel it.
20:42We're done here.
20:42Thank you very much.
20:43Thank you very much, Your Honor.
20:44This court is adjourned.
20:48Two days before the departure date, she sent me a text telling me, I hope you realize that
20:55he won't be able to go with you because I'm not authorizing him to go.
20:59Well, this was regarding the trip and they made it into the Montana thing, which has nothing
21:03to do with the case.
21:04So she has really worked on severing the relationship with the children and me.
21:08Well, we can just, you know, work this out and move forward.
21:10Your passion for the best interest of the child definitely got to shine through a little
21:16bit in there.
21:17But really, it's true.
21:18Once you have a child, your own personal whims, desires don't come first anymore.
21:24Since 50% of marriages end in divorce, and most marriages have at least one child, then
21:31you have to figure you're going to be tied to this person for at least 21 years.
21:36Of course, you may get tired of the mate, but you can't get tired of your kids.
21:41No.
21:43Are you having a family dispute?
21:45Go to JudyJustice.tv.
22:06Good night.
22:28You
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