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00:00they called me the Lebanese Texan I spoke Arabic
00:22first a surprise that an American would speak their language but I still had my Texas accent at the
00:33time I wish I had known the realities of the intelligence business back in 1980 when I came
00:42on board with the CIA I was blind I didn't really know what reality was I knew it wasn't Hollywood
00:52if you're trying to protect your country you have to play by the rules of the neighborhood and those
01:01are dirty what I know now if I knew it then I would never have joined the intelligence business
01:12Pan Am flight 103 crashed into the Scottish village of Lockerbie 270 people most of them Americans
01:22that was the worst terrorist attack on an airline ever we have no knowledge of how this happened
01:27we're trying to find out it was an attack on America watch crime scene in history
01:34worth a thousand pieces of evidence my daughter hadn't just died in an accident but uh being
01:38brutally murdered they killed our children to be lied to for 30 years I think the US government
01:43had an agenda Reagan is the biggest terrorist in the war if it's up to our government we might not
01:50ever know the truth nothing is what it seems in the Lockerbie story
01:57December 21st 1980 so I was 17 years old and my father was coming home from a business trip in London
02:16when his plane Pan Am 103 exploded over Lockerbie Scotland due to a bomb that had been placed on board
02:24by terrorists this was a terrible tragedy for my family to endure it was a life defining moment that
02:32would absolutely forever change the person I was it really changed the way I saw the world the way I saw
02:38myself we found out about the plane crash through a breaking news story and I'm talking like TV on in
02:46kitchen soap opera on newscaster comes on and my mother hears the news right 747 down from london
02:54to new york there was some type of explosion in midair and the plane broke into several parts
03:02there we go there's the oh my i didn't even see these yet this is
03:07frank yes and oh these are old pictures of how young we were at one time we met at a church dance
03:21and we ended up being dance partners and we dated for almost seven years and then we were married
03:28he worked at chase manhattan bank and he was serving in london he was coming home for christmas
03:40and he was supposed to come home wednesday morning and uh they asked him to stay
03:47and he actually called me he said would you mind if i came home that night and i i never told him
03:54when he could fly and when he couldn't fly he said of course as long as you're coming home
03:58but he wasn't supposed to be on that plane at the beginning
04:07we didn't know anything for months and months you know we knew someone put something on the plane
04:13but we didn't know who where they came from why they did it you know when something like this happens
04:19you want to know the truth you want to know what happens you want to know who's
04:24at fault who's to blame all of that somebody literally did this purposely to these people
04:39based on baggage records we determined that it was in malta that the suitcase containing the bomb was
04:47first planted
04:51i was with the case for three years but assigned to malta for almost two years that's a big commitment
04:58that is a big commitment but um it's not solved in an hour with commercial breaks and things like that
05:04that by 1990 we were all pretty convinced that libya was behind the pan am 103 bombing
05:20we had two main potential suspects
05:23the main fema was the libyan arab airlines manager here on malta and he owned a travel agency called med
05:35tourists here on the island his friend was abdul bassett al-maghrahi who apparently was an intelligence officer
05:45uh based on the artist's rendition mcgrahi looked like the person who had bought the clothing found in
05:54and around the suitcase containing the bomb
05:58but we needed more evidence you know there's still more work to be done
06:03everybody in our government wanted to find out who did this and as a result of that the cia did
06:15something and i won't say it's never happened but that's i will say it's a rarity they offered up one of
06:22their sources to the fbi they had a source in malta majid jaca
06:35they said that he was a double agent he had worked at the airport
06:40but he had left and gone back to libya and they were trying to find him
06:46the fbi code name for him was puzzle piece because he became so critical
06:52he was a piece of the puzzle
07:01so he volunteered himself he walked we call him walk-ins he walked into the embassy in malta
07:07claimed he was affiliated with the libyan intelligence
07:12he worked for libyan arab airlines and we knew it was common practice for the libyan intelligence
07:17service to use the libyan arab airlines as a cover office for their operations
07:22this is the old luga airport
07:33investigation determined that it was here that the bomb bag was actually put on the air malta flight
07:41so frankfurt and then was transferred to the pan am 103 flight out of heathrow they blew up over larkaby
07:54puzzle piece was working here at luga airport in the luggage area
08:00the cia started looking at his reporting which was saying that around december of 1988 he actually saw both fema
08:13amigrahi coming into this airport here with a suitcase and that double agent became very very important to us in the case
08:26i get a phone call telling me that the cia found the double agent majeet jaka
08:46he's on a boat and they're bringing him to a u.s a ship of some kind to be interviewed
08:56got on a helicopter
08:59we were flown out to a ship in the mediterranean international waters
09:04and i'm anticipating a very aggressive interview but i found him credible uh almost to a fault he was so honest
09:22he tells us he knows mcgrahi mcgrahi was in the libyan intelligence service
09:27he tells us i saw fema and mcgrahi come to the airport with a suitcase exactly the same as the one
09:39that carried the bomb he said fema because of his job here as the libyan arab airlines manager
09:50he was able to circumvent customs with that suitcase
09:58and then he tells us that fema uh kept explosives in his desk and we you know why would an airport
10:06security manager keep explosives in his desk you scratch your head but he looks at photo spreads of
10:13various types of explosives and he picks out semtex
10:16the explosive that was used to make the bomb
10:22that was critical for us we had the people who actually personally facilitated that bomb
10:32into the airline system that eventually blew up pan am flight 103 killing 270 people
10:40we got the bastards criminal indictments against two libyan intelligence agents announced today in
10:49washington and scotland we charged two libyan officials acting as operatives of the libyan
10:56intelligence service mcgrahi a senior officer with libyan intelligence fema a libyan agent and station
11:02manager of libyan arab airlines in malta finally something was happening because it was very
11:09difficult to to wait and see and have had everything that happened without an answer we were looking for
11:15answers okay there were people that we can look at and kind of say like why did you do this there's a
11:23relief in that because you're trying so badly to put the pieces together that was one of the questions
11:29so why did you do it you know you want to know who what where when and why of the situation you know
11:38and keeping in mind that my brother was such a non-violent guy
11:42this is uh some break dancing
11:56that's my brother in the red and he was uh 19-ish that was only a couple years before he died
12:03i recall being afraid that i would forget his voice and you know his mannerisms and you know
12:14to a certain degree i have you know which is really sad we didn't always get along so well you know
12:24there was an awful lot of sibling rivalry going on and and again being that we were so close in age and
12:31uh then we both went to syracuse and uh he was uh he was not happy that i was going to syracuse
12:38you know he he and i had a little discussion about it and uh you know i think he said something along
12:44the lines of you know couldn't you just go anywhere else anywhere else you know the last discussion he
12:54and i had i was driving him somewhere for him to catch his flight to the uk um the last words we said
13:04to each other was something along the lines of you know i really hate you and i really hate you too and
13:10uh those were literally the last words that we said to one another
13:24the relatives of americans who died on flight 103 expect their government to take decisive action
13:30it was a military strike against the american flag on pan am flight 103 and these libyan intelligence
13:37officers were used as soldiers abdul basid al-migrahi is accused of being the mastermind of the pan am 103
13:43bombing but he vigorously denies it in 20 of december or 21 or at that time i wasn't there believe me
13:51i was here having to believe with my families fema who also worked for the libyan airline also denies
13:57any role in the bombing we knew it was a waiting game it was going to be up to qaddafi to decide to
14:05extradite them so chances are we're not going to get anybody to come and stand trial
14:12kenel gaddafi took a look at pictures of the two libyan agents and declared that the men weren't
14:16guilty even if they were he said he wouldn't hand them over there was no indication that libya
14:24had any inclination at that stage in 1991 to give these men up so it seemed exceptionally unlikely that
14:31they would ever ever face justice
14:45i felt i had a right to know the truth about how my daughter flora was killed
15:03so following the naming of the two suspects
15:06essentially in the west it was confidently said of course qaddafi will never hand them over
15:13and that was where the idea dawned in my mind that perhaps i could help
15:17go and see him and see if if i could persuade him to allow these two to be handed over for trial
15:23the trip to a colonel
15:27qaddafi hadn't got a extremely good reputation for being a a good man and uh so we were worried
15:36whether he would come back in one piece
15:39Back then, Libya was a dictatorship where Westerners weren't really free to roam around.
15:57I mean, it wasn't deemed to be a safe place to go.
16:00So, Jim Swire going there to talk to the man who was accused of orchestrating the Lockerbie bombing was a big deal.
16:13Gaddafi definitely suffered from grandiose delusions.
16:18He believed that he was not an ordinary man.
16:21He was, I feel like, a political messiah.
16:23Libya was a country ruled by fear, where people could not criticise or dare to be against him.
16:37Supported by an Arabic journalist who was from Sudan, I agreed to accept his help to get to see Gaddafi.
16:46How the hell do you go about getting to see Colonel Gaddafi, the leader of a rogue state?
16:52Well, credit where credit's due, but he arranged the Libyan end and helped to get Libyan visas to get into Libya.
17:02A man whose daughter was killed in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 is to travel to Libya this week
17:08to try to persuade Muammar Gaddafi to hand over two Libyan agents who have been accused in the bombing.
17:13I've still, of course, felt extremely nervous about going to see Gaddafi,
17:22who I thought might either take me prisoner or have me shot or something like that.
17:33When I got there, we were parked in a waiting area in the desert.
17:37And then a message came out of his radio saying, OK, now.
17:49So you're effectively walking into Gaddafi's tent?
17:53Yes.
17:57So I went in and I said, Colonel, I'm very pleased to see you
18:02because I want very keen to talk to you, and I had a briefcase.
18:08And round the edge of this space was a ring of female soldiers.
18:14And each of them had an AK-47.
18:15And as I opened the case, you could hear a click, click, click, click, click.
18:22As the safety catches came off, they weren't trusting me one inch.
18:28But Gaddafi had decided he was going to trust me.
18:31I suppose he was brave, you would say,
18:33because a lot of people tried to kill him at one time or another.
18:35In the briefcase was a file full of pictures of flora at various ages.
18:45The men asked me why I'd come, and I said to him,
18:48well, look, two of your men have been accused of the look of a disaster.
18:53And I think the only way to find out if that's true or not
18:55is to have them tried in a proper court of law.
18:59Is there anything you could do to ease this situation?
19:01For about 40 minutes, I felt that it was time to go.
19:12And I took one more thing out of my briefcase, a little badge.
19:17And it said on it, Lockerbie, the truth must be known.
19:22And I pinned that badge on his lapel.
19:25And again, you could hear a click, click, click.
19:27And when I left his presence that time,
19:30he was wearing that badge on the lapel.
19:32I thought it was a good thing for him to acknowledge
19:34the truth must be known.
19:40Colonel Gaddafi insists that his government has been unfairly accused.
19:44U.S. and British authorities claim they have a lot of evidence,
19:47including high-witness identification.
19:48That implicates the two men.
19:51Well, a number of years went past
19:52before it became clear that the Libyans weren't going to surrender them.
19:56Libya resisted and resisted, handing them over for trial.
20:02And the pressure that was applied to Libya to make this happen were sanctions.
20:06The Iran and Libya sanctions bill I signed today
20:09will help to deny those countries the money they need
20:11to finance international terrorism.
20:14Those sanctions hurt the Libyan population.
20:19American companies and many European companies
20:22were not allowed to export anything to Libya,
20:25including medicines and vital things for human life.
20:30We urge Libya to end its 10 years of evasion now.
20:36The suspects should be surrendered for trial promptly.
20:39Tonight does mark the 10th anniversary of the disaster
20:47that was Pan Am Flight 103.
20:52Simultaneous memorials today on both sides of the Atlantic.
20:56At a parish church in Lockerbie, Scotland.
20:58In London's Westminster Abbey.
21:01At Syracuse University,
21:02the campus that lost 35 students to the terrorists.
21:05Our thoughts and prayers today
21:13are with the families and friends
21:16of those 270 people from so many countries
21:21whose lives were tragically taken
21:23in the Lockerbie bombing 10 years ago.
21:26Turn back the clock.
21:31Let it be 7 o'clock on the evening
21:34of December the 21st, 1988.
21:39The pressures of personal grief
21:42have been compounded for many
21:44by the frustrations of the fight for answers.
21:48I remember thinking that Libya would never turn them over.
21:51We find no answer
21:54to the soul-sharing question.
21:57Why?
21:59We were not interested in blaming anyone.
22:03We wanted to find the real deal.
22:06And so if it took time, it took time.
22:08The years of diplomatic efforts have finally paid off
22:21with a handover of the two Libyan suspects.
22:24It's clear that the sanctions worked
22:26because the minute the pair were turned over
22:29to custody, the sanctions were suspended.
22:32That was very surprising
22:42that they were turned over for trial.
22:46And we were very hopeful
22:48that at that point
22:49that the truth would come out.
22:53Two Libyan suspects to be tried
22:56in a special court in the Netherlands
22:58but under the laws of the nation
23:00where the wreckage landed, the laws of Scotland.
23:04Because I'd always had an interest
23:05in the Lockerbie bombing,
23:07I put my hand up and volunteered
23:09to cover the Lockerbie trial.
23:12The trial is expected to last more than one year.
23:16Almost $20 million have been spent
23:19building the court, prison and media centre
23:21on a tiny patch of Dutch soil
23:24designated as Scotland.
23:26This was going to be a Scottish court
23:29inside a former US air base
23:33inside of the Netherlands
23:35and that area would be declared Scottish territory
23:38for the duration of the trial.
23:40So they were tried under Scottish law.
23:44Because Scottish judges were trying the case,
23:49my job was to assist the international press
23:54and news agencies in understanding the trial.
23:58There's quite a bit of difference
24:00between Scottish law and American law.
24:02Under Scottish law, there is no death penalty.
24:06There's no life imprisonment without parole.
24:09So we were horrified that this was supposed to be,
24:13you know, the trial of the century
24:15that was going to bring justice to our loved ones.
24:23We arranged to live in Holland
24:25for the duration of the trial.
24:27And it called me obsessed to watch me like.
24:29I was determined to extract all the information
24:31I could from the trial.
24:34This is why we're here.
24:35This is my daughter.
24:36This is Theo Cohen.
24:37She was 20 years old
24:38when she was flown up over Lockerbie, Scotland
24:41over 11 years ago.
24:45The two Libyan defendants arrived
24:47for this landmark trial,
24:49coming face to face with the relatives
24:50of Pan Am 103's victims.
24:54You know, there was sort of,
24:56for me personally, kind of a disconnect
24:58that these two little guys
25:01sitting there in their robes,
25:04dressed in holy garb, so to speak,
25:07could have committed these enormous atrocities.
25:11It was very hard for me to,
25:15to actually connect them
25:18to having murdered my boy.
25:22Well, I'm hoping for peace at the end of it,
25:24that I can finally grieve for my daughter,
25:26my grandma.
25:27Sorry.
25:29For some of them,
25:30it was a sort of an emotional release.
25:33They talked about it
25:33as a sort of a moment of calm
25:36when they could finally see the accused.
25:41Others were much more angry,
25:43and they were angry with these men.
25:45They were convinced,
25:47even before the trial,
25:48that they were guilty.
25:49I want them to see my daughter's picture.
25:55I'm going to say,
25:56this is what you did.
25:59I lost four on that plane.
26:00My daughter was pregnant.
26:02I'd like to see them get executed.
26:03I'm sorry.
26:04That's how I feel about it.
26:07All of us had been exposed
26:09to the publicity,
26:11the negative publicity,
26:11about Libya,
26:13about Gantafi,
26:15the mad dog of Africa.
26:18There was an assumption
26:20that these two Libyanians
26:21were clearly guilty,
26:22and there must be
26:23a lot of evidence against them.
26:27Trials, by their nature,
26:29are complicated to cover,
26:31and this was going to be
26:32one of the most complicated
26:34in UK history.
26:39A very important witness
26:41for the prosecution
26:42was Edwin Bollier.
26:49Edwin Bollier owned a company
26:51called Meebo Limited,
26:53which was in Zurich,
26:55which, according to the prosecution,
26:57had manufactured the timing device
26:59that detonated the bomb,
27:02and a fragment of the timing device
27:04was found in Lockerbie.
27:10This is the one item of evidence
27:13that led the track
27:15to Libyan intelligence agents
27:17having a role
27:18in the downing of Pan Am 103.
27:21So it's where the dots
27:23all start to connect together.
27:31He's a Westerner.
27:33He is not connected
27:35to the Libyan government
27:36other than through business,
27:37and we assumed
27:38that he would get on the stand
27:40and tell the same story
27:42that he told us.
27:44But all of a sudden,
27:46he wasn't quite as certain
27:47that his timer blew up Pan Am 103.
27:50Bollier appeared to recant
27:53his previous testimony.
27:54He said different things
27:56to that that he'd originally
27:57told the police.
27:58He seemed mercurial.
27:59He seemed untrustworthy.
28:01He said that he was going to be a very important part
28:07to find the accused guilty.
28:23And then he comes and switches.
28:25Sie können mit dem Fragment Libyan
28:27nicht belasten,
28:28weil es nicht von einem libyschen
28:30Timer geliefert worden ist von uns.
28:33Edwin Bollier would have every reason
28:35to essentially recant
28:37what he previously said.
28:38Don't forget,
28:39Muammar Gaddafi,
28:40when this court case was going on,
28:42was a formidable power.
28:44He could reach you.
28:45You could, as a witness,
28:47be justifiably scared
28:48of going against the Libyan government.
28:50I now understand
28:53why he might have said that.
28:55I should make it clear
28:57that I consider
28:58the evidence about PT-35B
29:02to be a falsehood
29:03from again to end.
29:05There was a lot of doubt
29:07about where this was found,
29:09by whom it was found.
29:12It seemed to me
29:13quite remarkable
29:15that a very tiny,
29:17tiny fragment
29:18should miraculously be found
29:21in the wilds
29:23outside Lockerbie.
29:26And questions then raised
29:27over how such
29:29a tiny, tiny fragment
29:31could be identified.
29:34So do you think
29:35that the Scottish police
29:37tampered with the evidence?
29:38Yes, yes, absolutely.
29:40This is how my own clogged up.
29:44That cracks a prosecution's case
29:46right there.
29:57Now, the Lockerbie trial
29:59has heard crucial evidence
30:00linking the two Libyan accused
30:02to the place
30:03where it's claimed
30:03the bomb was originally planted.
30:07Fragments of a baby suit
30:08recovered from the wreckage
30:09of the flight
30:10were traced back
30:10to a clothes shop in Malta.
30:12Giving evidence,
30:14the shop owner,
30:15Tony Gauci,
30:16said a Libyan man
30:17resembling Megrahi
30:18had been in his shop
30:19about a fortnight
30:20before Christmas 1988.
30:26Gauci is significant
30:27because he is the one
30:28who can identify Megrahi.
30:30He says Megrahi
30:31came into his store
30:32to buy random clothes
30:34that were packed
30:35around the bomb
30:36in the suitcase
30:37that was put aboard,
30:38ultimately,
30:39Pan Am 103.
30:40He's the witness
30:42that fingers Megrahi.
30:46Now, out of all of that,
30:48the most controversial thing
30:50was Mr Gauci's identification.
30:54Where would you like to stand?
30:56What do you think
30:57about the name again?
30:58It was put up
30:59by the Scottish police.
31:03Later,
31:04it became clear
31:05that Tony Gauci
31:06had actually seen
31:08a picture of Megrahi
31:09in a magazine
31:10shortly before the line-up.
31:13But also,
31:15Megrahi,
31:15it turned out,
31:16was the only Libyan
31:17in the line-up.
31:19So that's where
31:21the prosecution's case
31:22weakens again.
31:24Could you all come out
31:26to the place to look?
31:27It's ridiculous.
31:28Even with all of that,
31:32he doesn't say
31:33it's definitely him.
31:38The impression I got
31:40was that
31:41he was under
31:42some pressure
31:44to accommodate
31:47the police inquiry.
31:50It was quite difficult
31:51to establish
31:52just how many statements
31:53this man had given.
31:54But what is clear
31:56is that his recollection
31:58of critical matters
32:00varied hugely.
32:03I mean,
32:04for example,
32:05the man who'd purchased
32:06the Maltese clothing
32:08was described
32:09as much older,
32:11much bigger.
32:12He had identified
32:13other people
32:14quite apart from Megrahi.
32:16And the identification
32:18of Megrahi
32:19was, I would say,
32:20laughable.
32:21It didn't quite deliver
32:22because he had
32:24changing recollections
32:26of what the suspect
32:27looked like,
32:28that his initial
32:30seemingly positive
32:31identification of Megrahi
32:33then seemed
32:33less positive.
32:36He seemed like
32:36an unsatisfactory witness
32:38when finally put
32:39on the stand.
32:40Tony Gauci
32:40was a
32:42simple,
32:44decent
32:44businessman
32:45eking out a living
32:47in this shop.
32:49The police show up
32:51in the biggest case
32:52in the history
32:53of Malta
32:53and started asking
32:54him questions.
32:55I honestly think
32:57he was just a man
32:59that was trying
32:59to be honest
33:00and tell the truth
33:01to the best
33:02of his recollection.
33:08We found out
33:09subsequently
33:10a lot of things
33:11that weren't known
33:13at the time
33:13of the trial.
33:14And if they were,
33:15would have completely
33:16demolished
33:17any credibility
33:18that he had,
33:20such as him
33:20being paid
33:21a lot of money
33:22after the trial.
33:24And not only
33:25was Tony Gauci
33:26paid money,
33:28but his brother
33:28Paul Gauci
33:29was also paid money.
33:31One of the pieces
33:32of evidence
33:33that emerged
33:34later
33:34that wasn't
33:35presented in court
33:37was from notes
33:39from a Scottish
33:39police officer
33:40where Tony Gauci
33:42said that
33:43he wanted
33:44some form
33:45of compensation
33:46for his information
33:48which
33:48is not out
33:51with the practice
33:51of the U.S.
33:53Department of Justice
33:53to do that.
33:55And I believe
33:56that an FBI agent
33:57said we can get
33:58some money
33:58to help relocate him
34:00after the court case
34:02was over
34:02for his safety
34:03and protection.
34:05We didn't know
34:06what the threat
34:07to Tony Gauci was.
34:09How much money
34:10are we talking here?
34:11They got millions.
34:12I think a million dollars,
34:15two million dollars
34:16I think for
34:16Tony Gauci,
34:17a million for Paul.
34:19He was never called
34:20as a witness.
34:22So what was he
34:22getting one million dollars for?
34:25He didn't say anything
34:26at the trial.
34:28You can't have people
34:29being paid.
34:31It's totally contrary
34:33to the interests
34:34of justice.
34:35The trial period
34:44was a very difficult
34:45one for me
34:46because at the beginning
34:47of it I still believed
34:48that our government
34:49had been telling us
34:50the truth
34:50as best they knew it.
34:53But the lack
34:55of credible evidence
34:57was what converted
34:58me to realizing
34:58that the Intelligence
35:01Association of Britain
35:01and America
35:02had other things
35:03in mind
35:03than truth
35:04and justice.
35:10In one of these cars
35:11is a witness
35:12from Libya
35:13who could decide
35:13the outcome
35:14of Britain's
35:15biggest murder trial.
35:17Abdul Majid
35:18was once a Libyan
35:19secret agent
35:20and now fears
35:21that his former
35:22Libyan colleagues
35:22want to kill him.
35:25The double agent,
35:26who we call
35:26puzzle piece,
35:28was willing
35:29to testify.
35:29You know,
35:31that was the real,
35:32you know,
35:33crux of that trial.
35:37There were some
35:38critical questions.
35:40Did you see
35:41with your own eyes
35:43those two suspects,
35:46Al McGrawi
35:46and FEMA,
35:48bringing the bag
35:50containing the bomb
35:51that brought down
35:53Pan Am Flight 103?
35:54Two Libyans
36:06are on trial
36:07at a court
36:07set up
36:07in the Netherlands.
36:08They've always
36:09insisted
36:09they are innocent.
36:11The prosecution
36:11has hung much
36:12of its case
36:13on the man
36:14who was on
36:14the stand today.
36:16Abdel Majid
36:17Jacka
36:18is the supergrass
36:19billed as the
36:19Lockerbie trial
36:20star witness.
36:21He had presented
36:23himself to the CIA
36:24as working
36:25for Libyan intelligence.
36:26So this is somebody
36:27who would seem
36:29to be able
36:29to put the finger
36:31on the culpability
36:33of McGrawi
36:34and Al-Fema
36:35in this.
36:36From behind
36:37a screen
36:38with his voice
36:38disguised electronically,
36:40Abdel Majid
36:41told the court
36:41how Libyan intelligence
36:43planned the bombing.
36:44He told the court
36:46he'd seen explosives
36:47in the desk drawer
36:48of one of the defendants
36:49and he had seen
36:50both defendants
36:51with a brown suitcase.
36:53Abdel Majid claimed
36:54that before the bombing
36:55he passed all this
36:56on to his CIA handlers.
36:59He never mentioned
37:00to us anything
37:01about any knowledge
37:02at all
37:03about the Pan Am bombing.
37:05And we were handling him.
37:08He was asked
37:08that question.
37:10He knew nothing about it.
37:13All I know
37:14is that
37:15I spent a lot
37:17of time
37:17with him initially
37:18and I'm a skeptical
37:19kind of guy
37:20you know
37:21until proven otherwise.
37:23I found him
37:25just
37:25honest.
37:30I wouldn't believe
37:31he would tell a lie
37:32about nothing.
37:33I think that
37:34he changed the story.
37:35He was looking
37:36for more money.
37:37He was looking
37:37for possible resettlement.
37:39He would have told us
37:40if he knew anything.
37:42Doesn't make logical sense
37:43that he would hide it then
37:44but now all of a sudden
37:45later know everything.
37:47I think he was
37:48a manipulator
37:49and a shyster.
37:51I certainly
37:52have never had
37:52any reason
37:53to question
37:54his honesty.
37:56Everything that he said
37:57we were able
37:58to substantiate.
38:00The FBI
38:01are primarily cops.
38:04And you got this guy
38:05walking in
38:05a former CIA agent
38:07who was initially
38:08claimed to be
38:09a true
38:09Libyan intelligence officer.
38:11They grabbed him
38:12immediately.
38:13This can make
38:13their case.
38:14This will make
38:14the FBI look good.
38:16The FBI
38:17and the CIA
38:18have a history
38:19of not getting
38:20along with each other.
38:21They don't trust
38:21each other.
38:25The former
38:26double agent
38:26is now facing
38:27cross-examination
38:28by defense
38:29seeking to undermine
38:30the credibility
38:31of a man
38:32who stands
38:33to collect
38:33a $4 million reward
38:35if the two suspects
38:36are convicted.
38:38He was such
38:39a dreadful witness.
38:41He actually did
38:42a lot more good
38:43for the defense
38:45than you could
38:45ever imagine.
38:47He'd gone from
38:47knowing nothing
38:48about Lockerbie
38:49to later giving
38:50evidence to the
38:51FBI that he had seen
38:53both Fiedma
38:54and McGrath
38:55with a brown
38:56Samsonite suitcase
38:57going through
38:58the airport
38:59the day before
39:00the bombing.
39:01They'd gone through
39:02avoiding any
39:03security checks.
39:05I mean,
39:05this was dynamite
39:06if it were true.
39:07But clearly,
39:08it was not true.
39:09It was something
39:10he had invented
39:11perhaps encouraged
39:13to invent
39:13later.
39:15This is BS.
39:15This is
39:16the government
39:18manipulating the evidence
39:19to get whatever outcome
39:21that they wanted.
39:22Even Jacker
39:23didn't try
39:24to incriminate
39:24FEMA
39:25in terms of being
39:27a member of the
39:28intelligence service.
39:30And that,
39:31in my view,
39:32was a very clear signal
39:34to anyone,
39:35including the judges,
39:36that this case
39:37against FEMA
39:38was dreadful.
39:40another flawed witness
39:43for the prosecution.
39:45His testimony
39:46doesn't stand up.
39:48He's seen as something
39:49of a Walter Mitty,
39:51somebody who says
39:52they're something
39:52that they're actually not.
39:55So his evidence
39:55is therefore
39:56much less credible.
40:01It was confusing
40:02for us to understand
40:03what was going on.
40:04This person is being put on
40:06as an expert witness
40:07or, I mean,
40:09to us,
40:11it was quite a sham.
40:15The day long awaited
40:17by Lockerbie investigators
40:19and victims' families
40:20is at hand.
40:22The court
40:22that has heard
40:2384 days
40:24and 3 million words
40:26of evidence
40:26is ready
40:27for the final day
40:28of Britain's biggest
40:29mass murder trial.
40:31This is another part
40:32of the healing.
40:33You know,
40:34it's still,
40:35you know,
40:36his murderers,
40:37right?
40:37It's still the people
40:38that committed
40:39this horrendous crime.
40:40So there is that sense
40:42of, like,
40:43wanting to kind of see,
40:45you just never stop
40:46wanting justice
40:47to somehow be served.
40:53It wasn't until
40:54near the end
40:54of the trial
40:55that I realized
40:57I could not
40:57continue to believe
40:59that there was
41:00a cogent
41:00body of evidence
41:02that justified
41:03the finding
41:04of either of these
41:05two men guilty.
41:06I've never really
41:11been a big
41:12conspiracy theorist
41:15to begin with,
41:16but I believe
41:18that the Libyans
41:22were responsible
41:24for the vomit.
41:28I never believed
41:29that Libya did it.
41:30our government
41:33and U.S. presidents
41:34have hated
41:35Gaddafi
41:36since he took
41:36over in 1969.
41:40He kicked all
41:41the American
41:41oil companies
41:42out of Libya.
41:44He confiscated
41:45our biggest air base
41:46anywhere in the world.
41:49I think the U.S. government
41:50had an agenda.
41:51the U.S.
41:58do
41:58the U.S.
42:00of Libya
42:01has been
42:01together.
42:02The U.S.
42:02Do
42:02the U.S.
42:03The U.S.
42:03and U.S.
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