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The Traitors UK Uncloaked Season4 Episode14
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Traitors Uncloaked, the official visualized companion podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.
00:06We're at the start of the final week and we are building up to hopefully a brilliant end to the series.
00:11But before we get stuck in, you know the drill.
00:13If you haven't watched episode 10, then what are you doing with your lives?
00:17Head to BBC iPlayer to catch up now and then make your way back to Uncloaked.
00:21Coming up, we see the moment Banished player Matthew found out the identity of the Traitors.
00:25He'll be with us shortly to discuss his time playing the game.
00:28Plus, to unpack this episode, I'm joined by Celebrity Faithful Kate Garraway and Series 3 Faithful winners Jake and Leanne.
00:41Welcome. Welcome to all of you. It's lovely to have three faithfuls on the sofa today.
00:46Isn't it though?
00:47I know, triple faithfuls, some more successful than others. Is that fair to say?
00:52I think it's fair to say, yeah. I'm already hanging my head in shame.
00:57Look, you shouldn't, absolutely not, because Jake and Leanne, if there'd been sun-dried tomatoes in your series, you might have been flabbergasted as well.
01:03Oh, yeah. I mean, we are flabbergasted anyway to be with you, Kate, so...
01:06Look, we've got loads to cover today, including the brand new dagger power and the impact that it had on Matty's banishment.
01:14We've got the terrifying Karas Hell mission.
01:16And of course, Stephen's fears about Rachel going up against him.
01:20But let's start with the end of the episode, Faraz confronting Rachel about his suspicions of her.
01:27Another huge nail-biting moment.
01:30Leanne, did you see Faraz suddenly becoming a traitor hunter?
01:33Not from Faraz, I'll be honest. I think we were all pretty shocked, wasn't we?
01:36But, I mean, he hit the nail on the head, didn't he?
01:38He was completely right with all of his theories.
01:40The worst thing he did was confront Rachel.
01:42I was gutted when he went up to her.
01:44Yeah, absolutely gutted. He should have kept it secret, and then Stephen should have kept it to himself as well.
01:51That's how I thought it was going to go.
01:52Because he told a group that included Stephen first.
01:55That's where he should have left it.
01:56We thought, we were hoping that that might be a moment to see whether Stephen turned or not.
02:03Yeah.
02:04I guess maybe what he was thinking was that if he laid all his cards out on the table, he's not going to get murdered.
02:09Because he's going to say, don't murder me tonight, as he did say.
02:13Yes, and it did make her think, didn't it?
02:14It's going to go one way or the other, but I think he's going to get murdered, so now we got it.
02:18Well, the truth is this year, you look at Jessie.
02:20She came forward about Stephen, and they didn't mess about.
02:24So, I'm worried.
02:25If he'd have left it till tomorrow, he would have been all right, I believe.
02:29But as each episode's gone on, he's gained more and more confidence.
02:31He has, yeah.
02:32I feel like he's got that confidence now, and he's just gone, you know what?
02:35I feel it, I think it, I'm going to say it.
02:37Yeah.
02:38Jake, as a former winner, what would you be doing if you were in Faraz's shoes now?
02:43Because he's accused Rachel.
02:44Tomorrow, I guess he's got to try and mobilise people behind his theory.
02:48Tonight in bed, he'll be sweating, but if he makes it to breakfast tomorrow, he needs to get the votes.
02:53The likes of Jack and Roxy, especially, they're the ones on the fence,
02:57and I think if he can convince them, Rachel could be in trouble.
03:00My heart's with Jade, though, because I feel like she's the Kate.
03:03Poor Jade, yeah.
03:04She's the Kate of the series from day one.
03:06All right, don't slug her on.
03:07She's not that.
03:09Just Desperate.
03:11She has been through it.
03:12She has, Tony.
03:14Can I just say, I mean...
03:16She's not as bad as me.
03:18No one ever has been in the series, internationally or otherwise.
03:22To be fair, she hasn't been on the money, though, to be fair.
03:24No, no, no, I mean in terms of being a faithful that's constantly attacked from day one.
03:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:29I had that all the way through until eventually they got me out.
03:33Yeah.
03:33Bless them.
03:34And I think she's going through that, you know?
03:38What's Rachel's plan of attack tomorrow?
03:40What does she need to do tomorrow now that she's been accused openly by Faraz?
03:44If Faraz does survive, she needs to be like, well, look, you're still here.
03:49Yeah.
03:49Maybe I'm being used.
03:51Yeah.
03:51And people are going to keep you in the game and pin it on me.
03:54She needs to deflect and stay as calm as possible.
03:57Yeah.
03:57If she doesn't murder him, then she can say, well, you accused me in front of everybody.
04:02So if I was a traitor, I'd have got rid of you.
04:03Yeah, exactly.
04:04Also as well, Rachel's biggest thing she can do is point it at James.
04:10James went that round table.
04:11He was so smart, he was like, yeah, I've got the dagger, I'm going to do this, Matthew's
04:15going to go, he's a traitor.
04:17And then he almost went home.
04:19Yeah.
04:19Yeah.
04:20Even though he had two votes, he was nearly the one who got punished.
04:23And now Roxy thinks it's James.
04:25So if I was Rachel, I'd be playing on that and speaking to Roxy.
04:29So the murder is a toss-up between Roxy and Faraz.
04:33Yeah.
04:33So are you saying Faraz is the best move for the traitors murder-wise?
04:37I think so.
04:38Yeah, I think so.
04:39Because I think he's going to take Rachel down.
04:41So Rachel's just like, it's all or nothing now.
04:43I'm just going to get rid of him and just be like, why would I murder him when he's out
04:46with me in front of everyone?
04:47I'm being framed.
04:48That's how I'd play it if I was Rachel.
04:49Maybe that's how it's going to go.
04:51Do you think differently, Kate?
04:52Do you think Roxy's the best move?
04:52I don't know.
04:53I just think that if they get rid of Roxy and I don't want her to go either, obviously,
04:57this is, you know, God, I sound like I did at the round table.
05:00But, Sandra Isavazo!
05:01No!
05:04The thing is, there's no heat for Roxy at all.
05:08Yeah.
05:08She's really confused.
05:10So maybe it would be worth keeping her because they could play her.
05:13Yeah.
05:13But if they murdered her, don't you think there's a chance that they can get into the confusion?
05:18They can say, well, listen, I was a traitor and you openly accused me and you're still here.
05:23And I don't know.
05:24Now, the episode ended with Stephen stressing about Rachel turning on him.
05:29Let's remind ourselves of how that unfolded.
05:31Nobody can stick up for one another at this point.
05:35And if you hear anybody repeat that I'm talking about you, it's because I have to, to protect our alliance.
05:44Right now, I'm worried.
05:46Maybe I've been blind because I have been actively not discussing Rachel if anyone ever brought her up.
05:54She might not necessarily write my name on her slate, but that doesn't stop her sowing seeds of doubt against me.
06:03If I did find out that she was going against me behind my back, then game on.
06:13This is what we're after.
06:15I knew that pact was nonsense.
06:18Cracks in the pact.
06:19Although, you know, in a way, isn't that what they've got to both do?
06:23I think Rachel's actually doing the right thing.
06:25I could see it coming for a while, to be honest.
06:27But he's just like, you know, I'm panicking now.
06:30What's up with Rachel?
06:31I think what she's saying is that if his name comes up in a discussion, she can't block it.
06:36Defend him.
06:37She can't go, well, it's not Stephen, because that's going to look bad on both of them.
06:40I agree.
06:41But the way she brought it up really sounded like, and just to give you a heads up, I'm
06:45taking the game from you.
06:46Basically, yeah.
06:47She was basically saying, don't worry if you hear me throwing you under the bus.
06:51It's just to save our alliance.
06:52It doesn't really make sense, does it?
06:53It doesn't make it okay to throw someone under the bus.
06:54You can't be like, heads up, I'm going to rob you.
06:56That's not how it works.
06:58Well, it kind of does if you're a traitor, though.
07:00Yeah.
07:00Because that's what they've got to do.
07:02So what's he got to do now?
07:03I think he's got to say, okay, well, I'll be doing it about you back then.
07:06Yeah, 100%, but silently.
07:08Yeah.
07:08She's told him she's got to throw him under the bus, basically.
07:11And he can use that information and then just carry on doing it.
07:14What's our guts saying about Rachel?
07:16Kate, do you think that she's going to try and turn on Stephen?
07:19I think she might do.
07:21I think, to be fair, I think if she thinks there's any danger she's going down, she will.
07:25Yeah.
07:26Yeah.
07:27Yeah.
07:27I don't know, do you agree?
07:28Yeah, completely.
07:29I think she's been defending herself for absolutely ages now.
07:33And I just think anything that gets in her way now, she's just going to try and burn it down.
07:37It's a paranoia.
07:38And I think that's what Stephen's now thinking.
07:40The paranoia of just her mentioning, I might have to mention your name in conversations.
07:44He's getting that paranoid.
07:45The trust there is kind of starting to go.
07:47Yeah.
07:48Before Matthew joins us and we talk about the brand new dagger power, we should touch on the Karas Hell mission.
07:53One of my favourites of the series so far.
07:55It's always funny when people are dizzy, right?
07:57And ripping apart teddy bears.
08:00Absolutely brutal mission, Leanne.
08:02How do you think they did overall?
08:03It looked exhausting.
08:05Yeah.
08:05And Kate told us about a million times she'd have projectile vomited within the first 30 seconds.
08:10Absolutely vomited everywhere.
08:12They smashed it though, didn't they?
08:13The girls at the end, bless them, I felt for them because they were so close.
08:16Especially at the end as well, shields count so much at the end.
08:19Oh my gosh.
08:20So you can just see how desperate they were.
08:21Yeah.
08:22Jack obviously winning the shield.
08:23Yeah.
08:24He'll be over the moon.
08:25Now, Jack doesn't have much suspicion on him at all.
08:28In fact, he has not had one single vote at the round table in the whole game so far.
08:33And he's got the shield, obviously.
08:34Leanne, how important will the shield be to him at this point in the game?
08:38I think it's probably wasted on him.
08:40Because...
08:40Do you think?
08:40I mean, if you...
08:41No, I don't.
08:41Do you not?
08:42I think he would have been the perfect person to murder tonight because he's got no suspicion
08:46on him.
08:47He's never going to get banished because no one's voting for him.
08:49So true.
08:50Yeah.
08:51So we should talk about Roxy, who's now separately questioned both Rachel and Stephen on whether
08:57they're traitors.
08:58Do we think her trustworthiness could be her downfall, Jake?
09:01I think she just doesn't want to believe because she's got friends with him.
09:05I had this similar experience with Mina.
09:06I was close with Mina.
09:07And in the back of your mind, you do got to suspect everyone, but you don't want to
09:12believe it's them because they're your close friends in there.
09:16So that could be her downfall.
09:17She's putting too much trust in, obviously, the wrong people.
09:20Obviously, her interrogation techniques were, are you a traitor?
09:23And they say no.
09:23And she's like, OK, that's proof.
09:25That's enough for me.
09:25Yeah.
09:26Maybe she was hoping there'd be a flicker in the eye or something.
09:29Yeah.
09:29You know?
09:30Well, the time has come to speak to Matthew about his time playing the game.
09:34But first, let's see how he reacted when he discovered the identities of the traitors
09:39shortly after being banished.
09:45I mean, obviously, a little bit disappointed because I wanted to get as far as I could,
09:49but I'm so chuffed.
09:50I'm so chuffed with how I got on.
09:52And I didn't, I didn't roll over.
09:55I gave him a good go at the round table.
09:58So I think I did all I could do.
10:00The odds were stacked against me, I felt.
10:02So it wasn't a surprise.
10:04So, well, there's seven people remaining.
10:06I think I'll give you the three who I think are the most faithful.
10:11Roxy, Jack and James.
10:14I think three traitors were picked at the beginning.
10:18And then I think that the first night they chose themselves, another trader, to join them.
10:25And then we banished two traitors.
10:28And I know that there was a couple of times when there wasn't a murder, but I don't think
10:34they recruited.
10:35So I think there are two traitors remaining.
10:37I know I was gunning for Jade at the round table.
10:40I'm still not sure.
10:41So I might say Jade, but I think Stephen's a traitor.
10:44When I looked at his voting record, every time he voted at the round table, except for Maz,
10:50so except for one time, the person that he voted for got banished.
10:54So again, that maybe meant it kind of, what I took from that was that he was just, he didn't
11:00speak first.
11:00He was waiting to see how the vote was going and then just going with the group.
11:05OK, I'm not ready, but let's go for it.
11:17Stephen?
11:18Yes, OK, wow.
11:21Uh, I mean, I did think it was him.
11:23Now I regret not saying what I thought last night at the round table.
11:27Very well played.
11:28I don't begrudge him at all.
11:31Like, he's played an amazing game.
11:33OK.
11:33Who else?
11:38Rachel!
11:41Wow.
11:43I mean, they deserve it.
11:46I don't think, I don't think anyone really suspects Rachel that much.
11:49I think they both played an amazing game.
11:54And a very warm welcome to Matthew!
11:59Pleasure to have you here, Matthew.
12:01Gutted you've left, of course.
12:02You're an absolutely brilliant player.
12:04Our very first traitor in waiting.
12:07It's the first time anyone's pitched that hard to be a traitor and is just eagerly awaiting
12:12their recruitment.
12:13We'll talk about that a little bit more later on.
12:16But first of all, let's start with your reaction to who the traitors actually were.
12:20You had Stephen there in your mind.
12:22What was it about him that made you suspicious?
12:24The first thing was when he said that he saw Maz and Roxy at the family tree.
12:31Yes.
12:32And then Maz left and I just did not believe that Roxy was a traitor.
12:36Yeah.
12:36So that was like a little thing that I was hanging on to.
12:38And then Stephen is the most lovely person.
12:41Yeah.
12:41And I think I said early on, I just can't see it.
12:44I just was like, he cleared up all the plates.
12:48How could he be a traitor?
12:49He's so nice.
12:50A traitor wouldn't do the washing up.
12:51He voted out both traitors and just how those roundtables went, it would have been very
12:57easy just to go along.
13:00It was obvious it was going that way.
13:01I'll vote them out.
13:02What you just said there, that you regret not bringing up Stephen at that last roundtable.
13:06I think that could have saved you.
13:08I know.
13:08If you really directed it to him, because he's had a lot on him this whole time, it really
13:12could have saved you.
13:13I knew that the traitors had set this whole trap up.
13:18Yeah.
13:18And I knew that the traitors would vote for me that night.
13:21And I thought that Stephen was a traitor.
13:24But somewhere in the back of my head, you know, you're still not sure.
13:28And I thought, if I go after Stephen tonight, he votes for me and I'm gone.
13:33But actually, he was always going to vote for me.
13:36Yeah.
13:37Because he set up the whole thing.
13:39Yeah.
13:39But that's so easy to kick yourself for afterwards, isn't it?
13:42Because you don't know all the conversations that have been going on elsewhere in the castle.
13:46And you don't have that vision.
13:48So, in a way, I think you did play the perfect game.
13:51I'm going to disagree that you played the perfect game.
13:54Because you are here now.
13:57Oh, kick him out when he's down, Ed!
13:59No, I think you played it as perfectly as you could have done.
14:02No, no, no.
14:03I played the perfect game.
14:04You played the perfect game.
14:05Don't worry about it.
14:06Ignore it.
14:07Ignore it.
14:07You played an amazing game and it was very well thought through.
14:10But what you can't predict is James.
14:14You can never pre-plan for a James to come to the game and run up behind you on the first episode and start pointing at you saying traitor.
14:23Actually, for future players of the game, that is a strategy.
14:27Yeah.
14:28He was never going to be murdered.
14:29Yeah.
14:29Because he, you know, that's half of your battle is don't be murdered.
14:33Like, so I think whatever, whether it was a strategy or whether that's just his character or not, that's a very interesting way to play the game and go in, create chaos, never be murdered.
14:45Yeah.
14:46You actually said a very smart wine to Stephen.
14:49You said, a traitor will vote for me tonight.
14:52And for a second, I actually thought he wasn't going to vote for you because of that.
14:56Yeah.
14:57Yeah.
14:57He looked panicked, didn't he?
14:58Was that your aim with that?
15:00When you're saying, when you're saying things within earshot, you're saying a traitor is going to vote for me tonight.
15:05Are you hoping that will change their voice essentially?
15:07Oh, yeah.
15:07And did you feel that about Stephen?
15:09I just, it's so hard.
15:10It's just so hard.
15:11I know, it is.
15:12Yeah.
15:12Like, I also regret not speaking to James.
15:16I knew that James suspected me since day one and maybe it's a character flaw.
15:21I don't know, but if someone doesn't like me, I'm not going to pander to them and trying to, oh, please be my friend, please like me, you know?
15:28So with James, I just thought, well, fine, think I'm a traitor.
15:31I don't care.
15:32Whatever.
15:33Let's get into talking about this roundtable because we've got to discuss the brand new twist in the game, the dagger and the double vote that it gives someone at the roundtable.
15:42Matthew, before I ask you about it, I want to hear from the others how they felt when Claudia introduced it at the end of the last episode.
15:49Yeah, I thought it was really good.
15:51And you kind of thought, oh, if you were a traitor now, this is a big decision, isn't it?
15:56And then we were sort of saying, would we want the dagger as faithfuls?
16:00Would we not want the dagger?
16:02I mean, it's just a bit of genius.
16:04Would you?
16:04Would you want it?
16:05I said no.
16:06I think then it's a bit similar to the seer.
16:09I think sometimes power can be the opposite.
16:12You think James loved it when he got given it.
16:15And he was like, oh, my God, yes.
16:16Fuck, he's going home.
16:18Everyone else at breakfast going, oh, I hope it's not me.
16:20And James comes in, he's like, I want it.
16:22I want it.
16:23I know.
16:23He's like this excitable puppy.
16:25Do you know what I mean?
16:25And the traitors have been like giving him treats and be like, who's a good boy?
16:28He's like, me, me, me.
16:30Faraz did want it as well, actually.
16:32But as soon as people start questioning him, because there's always suspicion.
16:35You're always going to think, what if a traitor has given it to themselves?
16:37So I just think I would have a goat under the radar.
16:41It's just everything's so risky at this point of the game.
16:43I didn't know which way that Rachel and Stephen were going to go with it.
16:46I was like, I don't know who they're going to give it to.
16:47Are they going to give it to themselves?
16:49And then as soon as they gave it to James, I was like, that's the only way to go.
16:52Brilliant.
16:53As soon as James gets the dagger, surely you're thinking,
16:56I'm the only person who wouldn't have given it to James.
16:59Yeah.
16:59So you should be the one who's in the clear that night.
17:01But then that's what they had planned.
17:04So then they're able to...
17:05It was pretty impressive, wasn't it?
17:06It was very...
17:07To hear them planning it and go through,
17:09and then Matthew's going to say this,
17:11and then James is going to do this.
17:12And that's exactly what happened.
17:14Yeah.
17:14I think the problem as well, Faithfuls,
17:16I had this problem.
17:18You think everyone's Albert Einstein.
17:20You're always thinking, well, 200 IQ players,
17:22double, triple buffs.
17:23It was so obvious that it couldn't be you,
17:24but they start to doubt that.
17:26And the obvious then is the opposite.
17:28Matthew, how are you feeling going into that round table?
17:31I think it was realistic that the odds were stacked against me,
17:34but I wasn't going to go down without a fight.
17:37So I was going to give it everything.
17:40I think you did brilliantly.
17:41I think you did absolutely brilliantly,
17:43and it was very, very close.
17:44So there's proof that you did absolutely brilliantly.
17:47You sort of kept your powder dry,
17:49and then you just went for it.
17:52And also, you went for it in a kind of really sort of elegant,
17:56lovable way that meant that you went out
17:58kind of with your head held high, really.
18:01Absolutely brilliant.
18:02That's nice.
18:02So it got pretty heated at the round table.
18:06Leanne, you were like Matthew in your series.
18:09Can you explain to us what it's like
18:10when you're having to defend yourself
18:12to everyone at the round table and how difficult it is?
18:14There's nothing worse than trying to convince people
18:16that you're telling the truth when you're telling the truth.
18:18It's so frustrating,
18:20but I think I would have thrived in season four.
18:22Everybody's arguing, rowing, fighting.
18:26I've been in my element.
18:27Star my hand.
18:29Sadly, you didn't make it through the round table.
18:31You got banished,
18:33but your reveal got quite the reaction.
18:35Let's remind ourselves of this.
18:38What are you thinking?
18:44The traitors will murder one of you tonight.
18:47Thank God.
18:50I am genuinely speechless.
18:54Good night.
18:54I'm sick of this game.
19:02I'm going to use the only fantasy.
19:05I'm going to be done.
19:08That might be the angriest I've seen Claudia off here around the table.
19:11Thank you, Claudia.
19:11I'd say that.
19:12Compliment, yeah.
19:13A total compliment.
19:15There's nothing scarier than being told off as a faithful man, Claudia.
19:18And that was a proper,
19:20you've let me down,
19:22you've let your school down.
19:24It was a real full-on, wasn't it?
19:26It really was a proper telling off.
19:28And then James just immediately collapses on the table,
19:32like one of those toys where you press the bottom
19:33and the legs just go.
19:35Poor James.
19:36I mean, poor James.
19:37Because it's amazing how hard he went after his belief
19:41that you were a traitor
19:42and you love to see faithfuls absolutely gunning
19:44for what they believe.
19:45But when you know that they're wrong,
19:48it's only going to end like that, isn't it?
19:49He's totally gutted.
19:50I wonder if he can sort of maintain any confidence
19:53in the rest of the game.
19:56James thought I was a traitor and so he...
19:58He went with it.
19:59He went with it.
20:00Yeah.
20:01So you can't really begrudge him that.
20:03No.
20:03It'd be amazing though if James did get Rich or Stephen next.
20:06It could be like a redemption act.
20:08Yeah, 100%.
20:09But no one would believe him though now.
20:11That's the problem.
20:12That's the thing.
20:13I think that's why he felt the way he did
20:15because he thought, I'm a goner.
20:17Now, of course, Matty, you had quite the ride in the castle
20:19because in episode six,
20:21you won the opportunity to speak to the traitors.
20:23Another huge twist in this series.
20:26Did you want that power?
20:27When you went into the walled garden with your team,
20:29is that something that you wanted?
20:31No.
20:32I put myself at the very back.
20:34I was being a gentleman,
20:35allowing the woman to go first,
20:37secretly hoping that by the time it got to me
20:39that it would have been claimed
20:41because it's the same,
20:42whether it's the coffins,
20:43whether it's the seer.
20:44Yeah.
20:45It just sets you out as like separate from everyone else
20:48and there's always that danger.
20:51But now I'm like,
20:52I couldn't be happier that I got it.
20:54Oh, it was an incredible moment.
20:56Yeah.
20:56How many ideas did you go through in your mind
20:58of what to ask them?
21:00Yeah.
21:00It's like,
21:01what question can you ask the traitors
21:03that they would want to tell you the truth?
21:05Yeah.
21:05You know,
21:06their numbers are dwindling.
21:07We just got rid of Fiona.
21:08They're going to get the opportunity to recruit again,
21:10but they can't win together.
21:12So if they tell me
21:13who they're going to recruit next,
21:15the person's currently faithful,
21:18I could then get that person banished
21:20at the next round table.
21:21Oh, that's the same.
21:24Yeah.
21:24Because I thought they would,
21:26it's in their interest to tell me the truth.
21:28And then I thought,
21:29you know what?
21:29Actually,
21:30I want to be a traitor.
21:31Yeah.
21:33So you asked them
21:34who they were going to murder next.
21:36They said Jessie
21:37because she's under the radar.
21:38Which absolutely broke my heart.
21:41Yeah.
21:42I know I did what I did after.
21:44Yeah, okay.
21:45Yeah.
21:45No, but genuinely,
21:46I love Jessie.
21:47I think everyone loves Jessie, right?
21:49I love her to bits.
21:50Yes.
21:50So then you asked them to kill her.
21:51No, that's not true.
21:55He didn't ask.
21:56He told them.
21:57Oh, sorry, demanded.
21:59Jessie's name was not,
22:00I did not bring Jessie's name into it.
22:02Well, they brought Jessie's name into it.
22:04You did then say,
22:05at the next opportunity,
22:07you might get an opportunity to recruit,
22:09turn that down,
22:10murder Jessie,
22:11and then at the next opportunity
22:12to recruit, recruit me, right?
22:14Why did you ask them
22:15to turn down the next opportunity
22:17to seduce
22:18and murder Jessie
22:20or murder the next person?
22:21A few reasons.
22:22They could recruit me immediately
22:24and then just get me banished.
22:26Yeah.
22:27Or if they murder Jessie,
22:28that's two murders
22:29because there wasn't going to be
22:29a murder that night.
22:30Yeah.
22:31There's another murder.
22:32It just buys me a little bit more time.
22:33So it's the time,
22:34it's the time thing.
22:35Yeah, but then also,
22:35it was just a way,
22:37I don't know,
22:37I just felt like,
22:38I felt like I just wanted to assert
22:40a little bit of power.
22:41Yeah.
22:42It just happened,
22:43to be honest.
22:43I kind of,
22:44but yeah,
22:45I just thought,
22:45a wee tiny little bit of control
22:47and also,
22:48yeah,
22:48show them that I'm capable.
22:50When did Jessie find out
22:52about what you'd offered
22:53to the traitors?
22:54Was it when the episode went out
22:55or did you give her a heads up
22:57about what you'd said
22:57to the traitors?
22:58Yeah,
22:58I wanted to give her a heads up.
22:59I couldn't let her watch that
23:01because I love Jessie.
23:03I'm so sorry, Jessie.
23:05And actually,
23:05she was not,
23:07I wouldn't say delighted,
23:08but she thought it was great.
23:12Yeah.
23:13And she,
23:14she was very good about it.
23:15I think,
23:15like you say,
23:16she was going to get murdered.
23:18Yeah.
23:18It added a little bit more drama
23:20to her story.
23:23Because I think they were kind of being,
23:24when you asked them
23:25who you're going to kill next,
23:26they were being pretty truthful
23:27about who was in their mind for murder.
23:30And I genuinely,
23:31had been saying,
23:31I want to win with Jessie
23:33as a faithful.
23:33I really trusted Jessie.
23:35Genuinely,
23:36you could not have
23:36picked a worse name.
23:39And it had crossed my mind
23:40to say,
23:42kill someone else.
23:43Yeah.
23:43Yeah.
23:43I thought,
23:44how cool would it be
23:45to be the first faithful
23:47to like,
23:48put a hit out on someone?
23:51Genuinely,
23:52I thought,
23:52kill James instead.
23:53Kill James instead.
23:54Yeah.
23:54I thought about it
23:55and that would again,
23:56prove my ability.
23:59Your ruthlessness
24:00as a faithful.
24:01And then I just thought,
24:01I cannot do that.
24:03I love that you said
24:04you wanted to win
24:05with Jessie as a faithful,
24:06but as soon as you got
24:07into that church,
24:07you said,
24:08kill Jessie
24:08and I want to be a traitor.
24:09The complete opposite.
24:11Did you expect them
24:12to go through with this?
24:13Did you expect them
24:14to agree with you
24:15and follow through on it?
24:16You can't trust a traitor.
24:18You can't.
24:19Because you sort of,
24:20you weren't offering
24:21much in return
24:22for them doing that,
24:23right?
24:24Because you couldn't
24:24protect them
24:25because you didn't
24:25know who they were.
24:26But I was offering them
24:27a willing recruit.
24:29Yes.
24:30Which is not always...
24:31I think that went against you
24:32because you shown
24:33that you were happy
24:34to get rid of Jessie
24:35and they were like,
24:36whoa,
24:37he was happy to get rid of Jessie.
24:38You might be happy
24:39to get rid of us.
24:40But I was probably
24:41going to be murdered
24:42immediately.
24:43Well, I mean,
24:44I was up for murder
24:45that episode.
24:46I just think
24:46I would have been gone.
24:48It was such a clever way
24:49of using that power
24:50to be able to speak
24:51to the traitors.
24:51It was such good television
24:53and the fact that you
24:54and Harriet did such
24:54wildly different things.
24:56Oh, wow.
24:57I can't think of
24:58a better two people
24:59to go in there
24:59because you're in there
25:00absolutely being like,
25:01I'd love to join you guys
25:02and Harriet's in there
25:03going,
25:04I'm going to destroy you.
25:05I know.
25:05You'll actually ruin your life.
25:07Oh, my word, I know.
25:08That was the most
25:09amazing experience.
25:10How did you feel
25:11watching that backwatch
25:12in Harriet?
25:12Because you obviously
25:13wouldn't have seen
25:13until he got aired.
25:14No, no, no.
25:15Unbelievable.
25:16Insane.
25:16Unbelievable.
25:17In breakfast,
25:18Harriet told everyone
25:19the question.
25:20But you decided
25:21to keep it close to your chest.
25:22Yeah.
25:22Do you wish you didn't do that?
25:24Do you wish you told the players?
25:25No, because it was like
25:26the ultimate test
25:27of delayed gratification.
25:28So I had a plan in place
25:30had they recruited me.
25:31Because I could have
25:32come down to breakfast
25:32and given two
25:34fake answers.
25:36And that would have
25:37taken the heat off me.
25:38But there was the chance
25:39that they might recruit me.
25:41And if that happened,
25:42then my plan was
25:43so I go up,
25:45meet them.
25:46Hi, Rachel.
25:46Hi, Stephen.
25:47Come down to breakfast.
25:49I might have waited
25:49until the round table.
25:50I'm not sure.
25:51But then I would have been,
25:52okay, everyone.
25:53I know that I've kept back
25:55these questions that I asked,
25:56but I had to do that
25:57because of what I had planned.
26:00I asked the traders
26:01who they were going
26:01to recruit next.
26:03Obviously,
26:03had I told you the answer,
26:04the person wouldn't have
26:05accepted the recruitment.
26:06the person they told me
26:08they were going to recruit
26:08was Rachel.
26:12I love that so much.
26:13That is amazing.
26:14That is amazing.
26:15Oh, gosh.
26:16I'm so sad.
26:17I love it.
26:19I couldn't have,
26:20you know what?
26:21Actually, though,
26:21I don't know
26:22what I would have done
26:23because I genuinely
26:24had a really lovely relationship
26:26with both Rachel and Stephen.
26:27They're probably,
26:28actually, and Harriet.
26:30Although what happened
26:31with me and Harriet
26:31at the round table happened,
26:33we had a lovely relationship.
26:35But I don't know,
26:36I just don't know
26:37how I would have responded
26:38when I went up there.
26:38Yeah.
26:39I presume, Matthew,
26:41the words you wanted to hear
26:42at breakfast the next day
26:43were,
26:44okay, over to you.
26:45Your catchphrase, please.
26:47I'm flabbergasted.
26:48No, no.
26:49Not that one.
26:49Oh, wait a minute.
26:51I don't know what I did.
26:52There's been a recruitment.
26:54Oh, sorry, sorry.
26:56Kate, it's your own
26:56bloody catchphrase.
26:57Bless you for knowing me
26:59better than I know myself.
27:00I love that.
27:01Do that one again.
27:02As I threw to you with that,
27:04I thought,
27:05Kate's not been listening
27:06to the context yet.
27:07I've been totally listening,
27:08but I didn't,
27:09I didn't, sorry.
27:10Chug me the ball again.
27:11Okay.
27:12I presume, Matthew,
27:13the words that you wanted to hear
27:14at that breakfast
27:15the next morning were,
27:16Kate, over to you.
27:17Somebody's been recruited.
27:21Well, no, actually.
27:24That's the opposite
27:24of what you wanted to hear.
27:28Well, I think you take on
27:30our first title of
27:31traitorous faithful.
27:33That will always stand out
27:34as being like
27:34an iconic moment.
27:35Yeah, definitely.
27:36It might have been season 10
27:37or whatever,
27:38that will always be like
27:39a killer moment.
27:40And then they'll all be doing it.
27:41After winning.
27:41After winning.
27:43Man of 16.
27:44Man of 16.
27:45Series 5,
27:46they'll all be doing it.
27:47All the faithfuls,
27:47they'll be standing up
27:48at breakfast going,
27:49I don't know who you are,
27:50but please recruit me.
27:52Seduce me.
27:53Seduce me.
27:53I want you to,
27:54you can seduce me.
27:56Sadly,
27:57we've run out of time here,
27:58but the party continues
27:59in our bonus episode
28:00of Uncloaked
28:01on BBC Sounds.
28:02We're going to find out
28:03other questions Matthew
28:04considered asking the traitors.
28:05Plus,
28:06I'll be getting
28:06Jake and Leanne's
28:07final week tips
28:08on how to go all the way
28:09and be crowned a winner.
28:10You can scan the QR code
28:11on screen right now
28:13to listen.
28:14And for the first time ever,
28:15we are giving you
28:16the opportunity
28:16to ask your burning questions
28:18to the finalists
28:18and Claudia
28:19on Friday night's
28:20grand finale.
28:21Please send them
28:22to uncloaked
28:22at bbc.co.uk
28:23along with your name
28:24and where you're from
28:25and then listen out for them
28:26in the final
28:27BBC Sounds bonus episode.
28:29A massive thanks
28:30to Kate, Leanne,
28:31Jake and Matthew
28:31for joining me.
28:32I'm Ed Gamble.
28:33Stay faithful.
28:34I'm Ed Gamble.
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