00:00We were thinking, actually, after all of the intensity on geopolitics and everything, it'd be nice to speak to you.
00:04And then, of course, the team turned around and said this is maybe the ultimate space race when we talk about also sending AI data centers.
00:12I mean, do you feel that you are actually also in this race where, you know, wars are just brought to space?
00:21Yeah, first of all, great to be here, Francine. And I would just like to correct. I was the first female commander of the ISS from Europe.
00:29From Europe. From Europe, yes. So, yeah, I mean, I think that space is normalizing in a way, right?
00:36It's becoming part of our societies, of our economies. And so it's normal that there is also an element of competition that moves into space as well,
00:44together with an element of cooperation and fascination with the exploration, of course.
00:49But there is an element of competition that touches certainly commercial aspects like, for example, data centers.
00:56Now, are we going to see tomorrow data centers in space? I think that that is probably a little bit optimistic.
01:03I think that that technology still needs to be developed. There's certainly opportunities of using that, you know, always available energy from the sun in space.
01:13But, you know, whether economically this works out, we're going to have to see in the next years.
01:20But it's certainly an exciting idea.
01:22Do you see a lot more competition amongst nations, actually, when it comes to space exploration?
01:26You know, first of all, I think that when we think about space exploration, the first, the closest place to us is low Earth orbit, where the International Space Station is.
01:38And that is, I think, becoming a normal place where people can go and even have businesses and, you know, and try to close a business case.
01:50And so what we see there is commercial actors coming in and just competing to make money.
01:56And I think that's a positive development because it means that more and more actors will come in.
02:01You know, the space station, the International Space Station, which is, you know, my home away from home, a place I deeply love.
02:07But it will come to an end at the end of this decade.
02:10And what we're going to see after that is commercial space stations, which are optimized to offer to other businesses opportunities to do scientific and technical development.
02:21So we see a shift there, which I think is positive because the actual frontier of exploration is moving further out towards the moon and further out in the solar system.
02:31And definitely there is some competition there as well, mostly between, let's say, you know, the West, if you want, under the leadership of the United States and China.
02:42Is it good or bad? I don't know. It is fact.
02:45And certainly if we want to look at it, you know, you know, want to look at the glass half full, competition certainly mobilizes resources very fast.
02:54So it can allow you to get outcomes very fast.
02:58And then usually what comes afterwards is a period of consolidation of cooperation, where you consolidate those results and you make them available to everyone.
03:06Can Europe compete with you?
03:08We spoke to Eleniubi, who is one of, you know, one of the great hopes actually for commercialization of space in Europe.
03:16Absolutely. Yeah.
03:17Eleniubi and other founders of startups, I think, are, you know, a new generation of founders in Europe who are trying.
03:25And we from the European Space Agency are absolutely encouraging that and supporting that.
03:31In fact, Eleniubi and her company, the exploration company, is one of the contracts I'm personally following for the development of cargo vehicles.
03:40So can we compete?
03:41I think, first of all, we have to catch up.
03:45And I don't think that for us is so much about competing at this point.
03:49I think for us it's about developing capabilities so that if we need to compete, we can compete.
03:57But, you know, our preference is always to cooperate.
04:00But then we can cooperate as more equal partners.
04:02So in space explorations, historically, we have focused on reaping the benefits in terms of doing science and technology development on the International Space Station.
04:14But those foundational capabilities of being actually able to, you know, build our own space station or even more important, the transportation, being able to launch cargo.
04:26And potentially when they launch humans, that part we have neglected a little bit.
04:30And I always like to remind people that, you know, in all European countries we hear about European astronauts flying into space.
04:39But let's remember, I mean, in my case, for example, my first space flight I flew on a Russian vehicle.
04:44On my second space flight I flew on an American vehicle.
04:48My great hope is that future generations of European astronauts also have the opportunity of flying on a European vehicle.
04:55I mean, when you say Europe has to play catch up, is it the technology or is it the funding?
05:01It's both, right?
05:02Because they come together.
05:03The more money you inject into the system, the more industry is able to develop capabilities.
05:08Obviously, they come very much together.
05:11It's not like, you know, the fundamentals are here, right?
05:14We have great industry in Europe.
05:15We have enormous talent.
05:17We have great engineers.
05:18So it's not like we cannot do it.
05:20It's just that, you know, politically but also industrially, you know, everyone has to agree that this is important and we want to do it.
05:29A lot of people are feeling unsettled because of the rapid changes, because of the potential shocks coming from geopolitics, AI.
05:35I mean, you are, you know, have amazing leadership advice because you're kind of in the most intense place, far away from everyone, where anything could go wrong, whether you're on the ISS.
05:47What's your best leadership advice in these difficult times?
05:50So, to me, the most challenging and yet the most important thing that leaders have to do is to help their people find meaning in this chaos, right?
06:05Because when you start losing your sense of purpose and meaning and this conviction deeply inside that what you do makes a difference and affects the future of the world, that's where I think teams fall apart.
06:17And it's difficult, it's intangible, every leader has to find their way to make that happen, but I think it's really fundamental.
06:24What helped you when you were at the ISS?
06:27So, I think on the ISS maybe it's a little bit easier because we're there with a very clear mission in mind, right?
06:34Well, that sense of meaning and purpose is very clear, right?
06:37You know, we are there as a crew, very much connected with a much more diffuse and extended crew, if you want, or teams, on the ground all over the world.
06:50And the mission is very clear, right?
06:51We have to deliver science for all those research groups and scientists who've worked, I don't know, many years sometimes to develop an experiment and then finally flying to ISS.
07:02And it's not just, you know, you being there and executing the experiment.
07:07Again, it's this whole complex machinery and complex organization that has to come together to deliver that mission.
07:13So, I think it's important.
Comments