00:00So, you have a twin brother.
00:01Are you guys still close?
00:03Yes.
00:05I feel like, I don't know.
00:07Growing up, I feel like we were closer.
00:10And I feel like now as adults, we've been actively trying to work towards being closer again.
00:17Because I feel when we were 19 and 20, living together in Salt Lake City, and both exploring ourselves,
00:24we kind of, like, drifted a lot.
00:29Because when you're trying to, like, I don't know, like, work through, like, who you are in that respect.
00:37And also when you've grown up in such, like, a secular kind of religious environment, it can be hard to, I don't know, it's just hard.
00:44It's like, there's a lot of processing you have to do.
00:46So, like, to also be someone's friend that you've been basically competing with all your life, too, at the same time, it's a lot.
00:51So, I feel like recently, especially the past couple of years, we've had, like, talks about, like, all right, we need to, like, actually actively try not to be annoying to each other.
01:02Otherwise, like, there's no point of ever, like, either of us ever visiting.
01:06No, but do you guys have, so I'm so fascinated by the idea of identical twins.
01:10And, you know, there's been, like, tons of studies on, like, them being incredibly close and, like, almost, like, psychically connected.
01:15Do you have that experience?
01:16Um, I don't, I wouldn't even, like, call it second-click connected.
01:22It's just, like, you just know each other so well that you can just kind of guess.
01:25Yeah.
01:26Like, I know how my brother is, so I know how he'll respond to things.
01:30That's not being psychic.
01:31You just know that you grew up with that person since birth.
01:33Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:34Come on.
01:35Yeah.
01:35Let's call it, you just know them super well.
01:37Yeah.
01:38Um, but yeah, we've had our moments, I guess, maybe, but I don't know.
01:43We just were always very competitive growing up.
01:47And it wasn't, like, our parents' fault, just how we are.
01:50Yeah.
01:50We're just both very competitive people who like to do things well.
01:53Would you say, like, your personalities are pretty much exactly the same, or is he a little different than you in some ways?
01:57I would say that we are, we can be very similar, but we are also very, very different.
02:01So, like, for instance, he is one of those people who's really good at remembering who's wronged him.
02:08Ah.
02:08And I am not.
02:09He holds grudges.
02:10Oh, he is the queen of grudge holding.
02:13He is amazing at it.
02:14He'll have the time, the date, this full time stamp, the weather of, like, the day that you did something that he did not like.
02:23Uh-huh.
02:24But, like, for me, I forget.
02:26It's good though.
02:27I will always, I forget.
02:28Like, if it's really bad, I'll probably, like, remember you did something, but I don't remember what it is.
02:34Really?
02:35I just don't care.
02:36I mean, like, I'll care in the moment, but, like, after a while, I'm like, why would I let that weigh me down?
02:41I think that's a really good quality to have, and a lot of people aren't like that.
02:44They, like, carry those.
02:45It bugs the fuck out of him that I'm like that.
02:46Really?
02:46No.
02:47It makes him so angry.
02:48That's so, like, because holding onto resentments is, it's a prison for you, not for the person.
02:53Like, the person, they generally don't give a fuck.
02:55Like, resentments definitely, like, they poison you.
02:58Yeah.
02:58So, I think that's a great quality.
03:00And I already put enough poison in my body, as it is, so, like, let's, like, mitigate as much as we can.
03:07So, did either one of you, like, realize your sexual orientation before the other one, or was it, like, a mutual thing?
03:14Like, do you guys ever, like, have a discussion about it?
03:17No.
03:17Or was it just kind of, like, you just knew and it, like, became a thing?
03:20Like, I think we both knew individually and probably also at the same time, but we just didn't talk about it.
03:27But especially, like, when we were, like, when we were, like, younger, but also, um...
03:31Did either one of you ever try to date women?
03:34No.
03:34Or were you just, like...
03:35Well, in junior high school, we would have girlfriends, but it was more or less just to keep people off our backs.
03:39Mm, so, like, beards, right?
03:41Basically, yeah.
03:42But I kissed them and shit, sure.
03:44But, you know, it's a playing house.
03:46And then is your twin in, like, the entertainment industry in any form?
03:50Or is he, like, totally different?
03:52He, um, I tried to drag him into porn with me, but, um, he was like, no!
03:58I'm like, all right, fine.
03:59So...
04:00You two would kill it.
04:02I know.
04:03I mean, but...
04:05It's also, like, it's also awkward because I have shot siblings in a scene.
04:09Yeah.
04:10And, like, because of compliance, they, like, can't touch each other.
04:14Which is fine.
04:14I wouldn't want to touch him anyway.
04:16Yeah.
04:16But...
04:17Yeah, it's like...
04:18Yeah, yeah.
04:19I can see...
04:21Anyway.
04:22Um, he does, um, modeling and stuff like that.
04:26And he has another job, but he does...
04:27I don't know what else he does, but, um, yeah.
04:29We both grew up dancing.
04:31Okay.
04:31So we were very competitive with each other with that.
04:35And then, um, he moved to New York.
04:37And, yeah.
04:38And I moved around myself.
04:40So you're a trained dancer.
04:42So tell us a little bit about your dancing career.
04:44Like, how many years did you dance for?
04:45I danced from 12 years old to 21.
04:49And what kind of dancing were you talking about?
04:51I'm talking about, like, hip-hop, jazz, hip-hop.
04:54Um, I was mostly...
04:55I was mostly a competitive ballroom dancer.
04:57Really?
04:58Okay.
04:59Like, what kind of, like...
05:01I was primarily...
05:02I loved, uh, Latin ballroom.
05:04Oh, that's so hot.
05:06It was a good time.
05:07I loved it.
05:08But then eventually I just, um...
05:10What sucks about ballroom is that you typically need a dance partner.
05:14Yeah.
05:14And where I lived at that time, a lot of the girls that were available to dance with were
05:19all on the younger side.
05:20And some of them were newer, too.
05:23And some of these girls, when they're new and they, like, get any kind of, like, notoriety
05:27or any kind of, like, success, and they think they know everything all of a sudden.
05:30And so they stopped listening.
05:32Huh.
05:32I know.
05:33So I just kind of just got burnt out.
05:35I was just sick of constantly putting all this time, effort, and money into trying to
05:40make something work that wasn't going to work the way I wanted it to anymore.
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