00:00Minister, thank you very much for joining us.
00:05Obviously, Davos, it seems to me, looking at the past 72 hours,
00:10that this is a world at a moment of rupture.
00:12So, what comes next?
00:14It is a moment of rupture.
00:15But here it's more important than ever to have a strong voice
00:18saying that we cannot have a governance of multipolarity
00:23without multilateralism,
00:25and we cannot channel competition without cooperation.
00:29And you say it's a multipolar world,
00:31but it seems to me this is Trump's world, isn't it?
00:34Not at all.
00:35We are all in the world, and we are a large majority, by far,
00:38that we believe in international law,
00:40in the principles of the United Nations Charter, and in peace.
00:44You say peace, and you say we still believe that.
00:47The majority of the world still believes in that.
00:49But we've also seen a new institution,
00:51the Board for Peace, led by the U.S. President, President Trump.
00:55Is Spain going to join this effort for global peace?
00:58It will be the president that will make the final decision and the announcement.
01:02We are discussing among EU members what position to take,
01:06and if possible, to take a common position, as common as possible.
01:10Certainly, for Spain, what's important is that this entity will respect the work of the UN,
01:17that it will respect the UN security resolution from which it comes from,
01:22and that it will respect international law.
01:25So it seems to me the European Union is hesitant.
01:28The French government has said they will not join.
01:30The Italian government has said they cannot join as it stands.
01:33What's the concern?
01:35I think that the same that this goes beyond Gaza,
01:40that there can be a clash with some principles of international law.
01:45Because it started as Gaza. Now it seems it's a private UN.
01:48It should be Gaza, because the Security Council resolution creates the Board of Peace for Gaza.
01:56That's the only task for which it's mandated, and that's how it should be.
02:01So we are all Europeans. We are looking at that.
02:04And the legal and the political implications of this Board of Peace.
02:08You prefer a joint position? An EU joint position? That would be the ideal?
02:11I would prefer. There are some countries that have already announced their choice,
02:15but we are still discussing among ourselves.
02:17So some would say this Davos shows that it really is the force and the survival of the Fed
02:22and really the racketeering of the world.
02:24Everything now is a competition or competition for global resources and power.
02:28Is that the impression that you get?
02:30Not at all. Not at all.
02:31There are some countries that might like a world like this.
02:36But once again, we are more the ones that we stand for our principles.
02:40And we are going to continue doing it.
02:42But when you see this whole context of a global race for resources, for rare earth,
02:48when you see President Trump saying we are the strength of the world,
02:51does that not tell you the world is changing now in a way that perhaps
02:54is not compatible with those values?
02:56Certainly, there are countries that think that war or the threat of the use of force,
03:01it's another tool of foreign policy.
03:03But once again, us Europeans, our responsibility is even greater than before.
03:10We have to stand strong on our values.
03:14And our values are those of democracy, of international law and defending peace.
03:19But values is not a strategy.
03:20So what is a strategy for Spain and for Europe?
03:22If you say we are the alternative and we can present a better alternative, what is it?
03:27Values are the core of what we are as Europeans.
03:31If we lose our values, we renounce to be ourselves.
03:34Now it's more important than ever that our security, our well-being remains in our hands.
03:41We have to remove the last obstacles of the single market to be even stronger economically.
03:47We have to tell everyone that we have the instruments to deter any coercion,
03:53whether it comes from trade or from the economy.
03:56And we need enterprises that can be in competition everywhere in the world,
04:01including in the digital world.
04:03And finally, we need the security, the European security, the deterrence in our hands.
04:08So we have to start to move towards a European army.
04:12Towards a European army?
04:13Absolutely.
04:14And what would that look like?
04:15Because it's been pitched in the past and rejected every time.
04:17Why is this time going to be different?
04:18It was at the very beginning of our founding fathers.
04:20It was rejected.
04:21In the 50s, we were very, very close to doing it.
04:24Europeans were willing to die for Europe?
04:25Certainly.
04:26If we want to continue being a soil of peace in which no one can bring war or no one can use coercion on us,
04:34either the use, the threat of the use of force or trade coercion,
04:39we need to have the deterrence in our hands.
04:42And we need also a first coalition of the willings on European security.
04:48Secondly, an integration of our industries of defense.
04:52And at the end, a European army.
04:54The United States has really bullied, now that you obviously talk about solidarity,
04:58has really bullied the Danish government over Greenland to the extent that they said,
05:02if you don't sell it, we're going to put tariffs.
05:04It seems he's now walking away from the tariffs.
05:06But how is that acceptable?
05:07The scenes that we've seen over the past two weeks, is that an acceptable way of doing things?
05:12Certainly not.
05:13And still there's a deal by NATO.
05:15He won.
05:16The pressure on Denmark and on Greenland must stop.
05:21Spain has been very clear since the very beginning.
05:24The future of Greenland belongs to the people of Greenland and to the Danish people.
05:29And the people of Greenland have said it very clearly.
05:31They want to remain as a part of Denmark.
05:34They want to remain as a part of an EU member state.
05:37And have you heard any information, Minister, about what this deal entails over NATO?
05:42You are an ally of NATO.
05:43Denmark is too.
05:44I suppose you would want to know what is it that NATO has worked at with the US President.
05:49Do you know anything about this?
05:51Well, it's not NATO.
05:52It's the Secretary General of NATO.
05:53But he is NATO.
05:54Talking to one of the allies.
05:55We are all NATO.
05:56Of course they are NATO.
05:57Of course.
05:58And it's normal that the President of a country talks to the Secretary General of NATO.
06:02The President of Spain has talked on bilateral.
06:04We all do it.
06:05But on this announcement, the only thing I know is the announcement that was made yesterday.
06:11I talked to the ministers of foreign affairs of other allied countries.
06:15They have the same information than me.
06:17Just the announcement.
06:18And I'm sure that whatever has been discussed will be brought to the Council of NATO.
06:24And just finally, Spain is a big player in Latin America.
06:27You pushed very hard for the trade deal of Mercosur, which is now finally through the finish line.
06:31You said geopolitically it was very, very important to get it done.
06:34But, of course, the continent is also in a moment of transition because of the dramatic arrest and capture of Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela.
06:43How do you see this relationship going forward?
06:45And you've always talked about a democratic transition.
06:47That's not happening.
06:48Certainly, Latin America is the closest region to the European Union.
06:54And we have all to win to be together.
06:57Mercosur is really, really good news.
07:00As for Venezuela, what we want for Venezuela is a wide dialogue among the government and the opposition that will bring a peaceful and democratic solution from within the Venezuelan people, not from the outside.
07:15Are you concerned that President Trump seems to really care about the oil first?
07:19The oil and the natural resources of Venezuela belong to the Venezuelan people and it's a part of their sovereignty.
07:26That must be part of this broad dialogue among Venezuelans as well.
07:30And just lastly, Spain was very outspoken when it comes to Gaza and you were very outspoken about the idea of the two states solution.
07:37Is there any hope that we are going to see that manifest in the next year?
07:41Because it seems to me this conversation has now really stalled.
07:44If we want peace, stability and security for everyone in the Middle East, including for Israel and Israeli people, we have to put in place the two states solution.
07:54And that means also a viable and realistic Palestinian state living next to Israel.
08:00And in 2026, it seems to me it's lost momentum.
08:03I hope so. It's high time. Too much innocent blood has been there for decades. It's high time that we put in place the two states solution.
08:15Well, Minister, thank you very much for joining us.
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