00:00This is apropos. EU leaders are gathered tonight in Brussels to chart a new course in transatlantic relations a day after the US president dramatically backed away from his insistence on acquiring Greenland, a semi-autonomous territory of Denmark, and dropped his threat to impose fresh tariffs on European nations that support Copenhagen.
00:23Ahead of tonight's meeting, Emmanuel Macron said European pressure had forced Trump into a U-turn on the mineral-rich island. Nick Rushworth has the latest.
00:33Is it broken or not?
00:35It is an emergency summit for the EU to rethink ties with Washington after the US president Donald Trump's threat of tariffs and even military action to acquire Greenland, which is a semi-autonomous territory of EU member Denmark.
00:50I think it's clear for everybody that we are a sovereign state and we cannot negotiate about that because it's a part of the very basic democratic values.
01:02But of course we can discuss with the US how we can strengthen our common cooperation on security in the Arctic region.
01:10People thought I would use force. I don't have to use force. I don't want to use force. I won't use force.
01:15Trump stepped back on Wednesday from his threat of tariffs on eight European nations and ruled out using force to take control of Greenland, suggesting a deal was in sight.
01:25Along the way, he has ruffled feathers with long-standing European allies.
01:28We have returned to a situation that seems much more acceptable to me, even if we remain vigilant.
01:36So the conclusion to be drawn is that when Europe reacts in a united manner, using the instruments at its disposal, and when it is threatened, it can command respect.
01:46And that's a very good thing.
01:47EU governments remain wary of another change of mind by the US president, who is increasingly seen as a bully.
01:55The European Parliament on Wednesday, in protest over US pressure to acquire Greenland, put its work on hold on ratifying a trade deal agreed in the middle of last year between the US and the EU.
02:06Amid the ongoing fallout from the Greenland crisis, European leaders have been taking a somewhat tougher stance with the US president.
02:14So, too, have certain populists who have traditionally been enthralled by the rhetoric of Donald Trump.
02:21Well, to discuss all of this and more, let's bring in Georges Samaras, Assistant Professor of Public Policy at the School for Government at King's College London.
02:31Thanks so much for being with us on the programme this evening.
02:34Firstly, in your view, has Donald Trump now become a political liability for the far right here in Europe, given the threats he's been making against Denmark and the criticism he's been making more generally of the entire continent?
02:49Trump has managed to somehow boost several far right projects across Europe.
02:54We've known that for the past year.
02:56We've seen it, especially with Germany and the AfD.
02:59He also supports Reform UK, but the oxygen that he has lent to all those parties is definitely turning into liability and has always been a liability because we're entering a new era.
03:13And I hope that voters and viewers can understand that, where political annihilation of whole systems can occur during security threats that come and go.
03:25So, those nationalist projects that rely on sovereignty, on protecting borders, on trying to somehow deal with migration, they have nothing to benefit from a dictator who has been openly, so far, trying to threaten a sovereign nation with annexation.
03:44And talk to us a little bit then about how populists have been shifting their narrative.
03:48Are we seeing more of them speak out against U.S. imperialism?
03:53Well, for starters, I don't think that populist is the right word to describe those actors.
03:59We're looking at proper far-right projects.
04:01So, we're looking at far-right politicians who have been always using this kind of rhetoric to use their nationalist, I would argue, sentiment.
04:10They definitely have nothing to gain from U.S. imperialism, and they haven't really attacked U.S. imperialism in the last couple of months.
04:20Many of them applauded the abduction of Maduro in January.
04:26Many of them have tried to repeatedly act as mediators.
04:31Look at Giorgia Meloni.
04:32And others have remained silent.
04:34Vox and Spain has been quiet.
04:36I don't really understand why Meloni has tried to be a mediator here, but there is no doubt that she doesn't want to provoke Trump.
04:43So, speaking, you know, against imperialism would probably be a good move if they wanted to support their nationalist projects.
04:51But there is no ideological or moral compass here.
04:55They just argue that the connections to the U.S. should be sustained.
05:00Yeah, because I was going to ask you, these politicians, do they actually agree or disagree with Trump, or are they just wary now?
05:09The ones who have been speaking out, for example, Jordan Bardella here in France has been critical of Trump when it comes to what's happening with Greenland and also his tariff threats.
05:17Is it ideological, as you're suggesting, or are they just trying to please voters or rather not displease them?
05:25The key thing is that those ideological projects are not firm.
05:33They don't really have a proper manifesto to deal with such emergencies.
05:39So, at times of ideological thinness, which right now expose that they're not willing to do everything they can to protect sovereignty, they're indeed trying to please their voters.
05:51The voters think that Trump is some kind of mastermind who has been leading a far-right government for the past year, and he's inspiring other projects across the world.
06:02However, that's what some of those far-right parties get wrong.
06:06Trump appears to be deeply unpopular with the general population across Europe.
06:11YouGov has confirmed that several times over the past year.
06:14As things stand, Trump has absolutely no purpose and should not be intervening in European politics.
06:22If far-right projects don't understand that and they think that, you know, acts against sovereignty are allowed, then I'm pretty sure that this kind of flip-flopping will eventually crumble.
06:35There is no way to win voters while they're trying to appease Trump.
06:39Yeah, because public opinion here in Europe, it is largely hostile to Donald Trump, as you say.
06:45But does he appeal to far-right voters?
06:47Are there figures on that, on how people who would vote for the likes of Jordan Bardella or Marine Le Pen here in France, how do they actually feel about Donald Trump?
06:58That is a good question.
06:59In my view, lots of those far-right voters, especially in Europe, I'm not talking about the American now electorate, the European electorate is obsessed with migration.
07:11We know that.
07:12But they're obsessed with migration because people talk about migration, because it's a dope-down issue.
07:17So, migration was one of the key buzzwords in the past year because of the many elections that we saw in Europe since, actually, the European election.
07:27Now that migration is fading out as a buzzword and national security comes in, they will try to do anything they can to play with those words,
07:37to use some of those topics in order to advance a new agenda.
07:41So, this is new territory for most of those far-right projects.
07:44Voters will now react to this.
07:48We don't know how they're going to react for now, but we will find out very soon whether these strategies play out,
07:54because polling companies have so much work to do in the next couple of weeks.
07:59They need to capture and understand how voting behavior is going to be shaped,
08:04perhaps during one of the most turbulent eras we have witnessed since the end of World War II and the economic crisis of 2008.
08:12And you referred to Georgia Maloney a little earlier, strong ally of Donald Trump.
08:19The fact that the likes of far-right leaders here in France don't seem to be entirely on the same page as her,
08:25for example, when it comes to what's happening in Greenland and just the US president's policies in general,
08:31does that risk pose any kind of risk for the far-right itself as a group that certain divisions may start emerging there within the far-right itself?
08:41For starters, to respond to the first point about Jordan Bardella, I think it's an honorable stance, for sure.
08:53But it's a little too late, because he has endorsed Trump.
09:00They pulled around a lot over the past year, and Trump has been defending Le Pen throughout her legal battles.
09:09So I think that it's quite late that they finally realized that Trump poses a security threat.
09:16The differences between Maloney and Bardella are very clear.
09:21Maloney is trying to play a very different role.
09:23She has a very different ideology as well, looking back at her neo-fascist past as a member of Mussolini's youth,
09:30while Bardella is a much younger politician, and he's following Le Pen's lead.
09:36What this shows us is that we cannot take the far-right as a whole.
09:40There are different far-right movements across Europe with significant differences.
09:44And in the end, many of them are now trying to test the waters, because at the end of the day,
09:51they don't know what's going to happen next.
09:53We don't know how Trump is going to escalate or de-escalate this rhetoric.
09:59They're testing the waters.
10:01And those differences are always significant when it comes to reacting to such major events and incidents across the globe.
10:08And just finally, is this an uncomfortable position for the likes of Jordan Bardella to find himself essentially aligned with the French president on this issue?
10:16I mean, I don't find it personally weird, and it makes sense that they're aligned,
10:23because I find it personally fascinating that the far-right and the central-right are coming together
10:33for something that was maybe indisputable 20 or 30 years ago, and that's national sovereignty.
10:42Far-right leaders traditionally emphasize nationalist tendencies.
10:46As things stand, Bardella is doing what's, I guess, in the interest of French people
10:53to retain sovereignty, to protect European borders, and ensure that no invasion is going to happen in Greenland.
11:01The most crucial part here is that a political system has to come inevitably together.
11:07That also involves Malenchon.
11:09They've all called for an aggressive response to Trump.
11:13Some have argued that they need to exit NATO.
11:17Jordan Bardella aligned with Macron because he knows what's at stake here.
11:21And because of how unpredictable Trump can be, they don't really know what will come next.
11:25And it's better to be safe than sorry.
11:28And I find the response quite normal in France as things stand,
11:33because Macron has taken more decisive stance compared to other European leaders anyway.
11:38Georges, thanks so much for being with us on the program.
11:40We appreciate your time.
11:41That is Georges Samaras, Assistant Professor of Public Policy
11:44at the School for Government at King's College London.
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