- 2 days ago
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00:00Pandu, thank you so much for joining us.
00:02Give us a sense of the amount of capital that Ganantara can deploy right now.
00:07Yeah, thank you.
00:08Beautiful here, beautiful weather.
00:10But let's say this is the first start of the deployment era.
00:13I think we are going to do close to 200 trillion rupiah, equivalent to 14 billion US roughly,
00:19that we will spend in a variety of projects, direct investment.
00:23That's to be deployed, not yet deployed.
00:25Some are already deployed, but we're not talking much about it
00:27because it may affect the market, especially in the public side,
00:30because we're also doing public bonds as well as public equity in Indonesia.
00:35We will probably start investing outside globally on the public side by second half this year
00:40as we're going through the process, selecting the fund managers.
00:43So anyway, for this first year, we're going to work through managers, especially on the public side.
00:47So just to be sure, you have $14 billion to be deployed.
00:52Deploying.
00:53Being deployed.
00:54So that's the amount we're looking at.
00:56So far, it has been in bonds.
00:58Talk to us about whether there are plans to invest in equities, how that might look like.
01:04So public equity, we'll start with Indonesia first.
01:07To be honest, it's already ongoing.
01:09I can't tell you the amount because it may affect our public equity market.
01:13But this will progress.
01:14It'll get bigger over time.
01:15The second half, we're also going to start looking abroad
01:18because at the end, we have to look for returns.
01:21The absolute return is important.
01:22So it has to be in excess of our cost of capital.
01:25So that's kind of the paramount figure.
01:27And number two, on direct investment where it creates jobs.
01:30We're already starting.
01:31We already started with the waste to energy that we've already announced.
01:35We're going to do several announcements February, March on direct investments in Indonesia
01:39that hopefully will create jobs.
01:41It'll be in several sectors.
01:42Healthcare will be a sector.
01:44The energy sector, renewable.
01:46Downstream sector.
01:47So these are the three key structures that I know is part of the president's agenda.
01:51I just want to pick up on the equity market to talk about how the international markets
01:55will come to play second half of the year.
01:58Give us a sense of where that might be because there is a rotation from the U.S. to Asia.
02:03Yes.
02:03I mean, is that something you're looking at as well?
02:05We're looking at it very closely because it's global, the mandate that we're investing.
02:09Obviously, the developed market today is still a lot of the liquidity is,
02:13but there's been rotational liquidity in developing markets both in our part of the world,
02:18in Southeast Asia, because of valuation.
02:20But you're seeing it also in China.
02:22We're also seeing it obviously in Japan and Korea.
02:24These are sectors that we're looking at very closely, both from public as well as in private markets.
02:29And in the bond market, you're looking to issue more bonds, Patriot bonds too?
02:34So Patriot bonds is just part of a funding mechanism where we work together
02:37with the leading business people in Indonesia.
02:39We're really close to the first $50 trillion.
02:42There'll be more coming in soon.
02:43How much more?
02:44I think roughly...
02:45$2 billion, $3 billion?
02:45Yeah, probably close roughly.
02:47Don't go higher.
02:48Go step by step, Aslinda.
02:49So what would that be?
02:50That will probably be closer to $20 trillion, roughly $1.5 something billion.
02:56But that will be the first set.
02:57And from there, it'll progress.
02:59But don't forget, all these projects we will do because obviously the cost is very good for us, right?
03:04We're also getting credit rating for all these bond issuance.
03:07So the governance is proper.
03:09So you've gotten the credit rating for the sucking big bonds?
03:11Yeah, we got the credit rating for all these bond issuance.
03:14We already got it because from Pefindo, which is our local, as well as Fitch.
03:17So it's a triple A rated.
03:19And we're going to do it, obviously, some for Waste to Energy, which we've publicly announced,
03:23and other projects where it makes sense because we need a lower cost of capital
03:27to make it economical for our businesses.
03:29Some are concerned that perhaps you're raising funds to help with the national budget.
03:35We know that last year, the government spent close to the max legally.
03:41Might the funds be used for that?
03:43No, I think our job is to make money.
03:45By law, our job has to make money.
03:47We have to create returns.
03:49So the way I define return, the way we define returns in Danantara,
03:52it has to be in excess of our cost of capital.
03:55And it's very simple.
03:55You look at our 10-year bond, 15-year bond of Indo-Gavi, U.S., it has to be in excess of that.
04:01So there's a spread that we put.
04:02So for us, all of these is just a compilation of cost of capital.
04:06But all the project has to make economic and commercial sense.
04:09Foreign denominated bonds, USD?
04:12USD, we'll take a look into it.
04:14Because also some of our funding will also have to be USD denominated and maybe other currencies.
04:19We're also mindful of the rupiah.
04:21One of the things we need to do is matching between funding and usage.
04:24So, you know, we're focusing a lot on that.
04:26And we don't want to be disruptive to the IDR currency market.
04:30So we're very cognizant of that.
04:32When might that happen?
04:34Soon.
04:35Within the next six months?
04:36Yeah, I mean, we'll look at it.
04:37Within the next three months?
04:38No, no, no.
04:38We'll look at it.
04:39There's such a good questionnaire.
04:41But it will be this year.
04:42We'll be looking at something along that line in the public market.
04:47It is understandable why you're looking at USD.
04:50But diversification is also key.
04:52And the current environment, the yuan.
04:55Would be a good alternative as a diversifier?
04:58Is it something you might consider?
04:59Depending on the projects.
05:00If there are projects related to that specific currency, I need to find matching.
05:05So if the usage of it is currency is in USD, we find USD matching.
05:10Again, what I do care about for us is the IDR.
05:12We need the IDR to be stable.
05:14We don't want to be disruptive of the IDR.
05:16But if there's funding needs that are non-IDR, we'll match that denomination.
05:21We talk about deploying capital.
05:22We know that Saudi Arabia is interested in getting investments for property projects in the country, Indonesia.
05:30Danantara has expressed interest.
05:31Talk to us about the reasoning behind that.
05:33What is the thinking?
05:34Well, Saudi and us are very close politically as well as very important because that's where all of Indonesians go for Hajj.
05:41It's one of the Indonesian dream to go to Hajj.
05:43We're also the largest number of population percentage-wise that go to Mecca.
05:47So when they opened it in Saudi, we took that opportunity right away.
05:52We closed the transaction to buy a hotel and land called Taker.
05:56That's the land that we've developed or are buying and developing.
06:00We're also bidding on certain assets around Mecca that hopefully will have a good conclusion in the next few months.
06:06But we're very aggressively looking to invest in land both in Mecca and the surrounding area.
06:12And how much do you think you're willing to set aside for?
06:15In our view, at least a billion dollars that we have to do it to make it meaningful given how large the Indonesian contingencies that go there every year.
06:22So it just makes great business sense and strategically very important for us.
06:26And given that the two countries are closed, as you suggested, are there other projects in Saudi Arabia that might be of interest?
06:33Anything that we've discussed actually with the Saudi government, we actually go with them.
06:39What they think is strategic for them, we'll look at it for us, this sector.
06:43We look at tourism. In a way, it's a cultural tourism, religious tourism, and also to introduce Indonesia to the world.
06:50One of the best places to do it actually is in Saudi.
06:52Other sectors, we'll look at it.
06:54What other sectors might be?
06:56The Saudi is really focusing a lot on energy, obviously, and how the usage of energy can translate into AI.
07:01No different than some of the other Middle East countries.
07:04So we'll take cadence with them and we'll follow their leadership.
07:07You've talked about downstream fraud projects. Five have been identified and apparently capital has been deployed for those projects.
07:15Can you shed light on what these projects are?
07:17So the projects actually have been, some of them have actually been capitalized by our companies under Danantara Asset Management.
07:24So those under MineID, which is obviously our largest mining entity, a lot of it related in terms of downstream of nickel, now the green nickel project.
07:32That's probably one that I can highlight, how to use renewable energy for the nickel processing.
07:38That will be quite significant. I think it has been announced, semi-announced.
07:41Bloomberg always pick it up before anything gets announced.
07:44So I guess it's semi-announced.
07:46So that I think officially end of this first quarter, it'll already start processing.
07:51And the other projects?
07:52The other projects, please wait. I think Bloomberg will.
07:55So we'll have more news with you, Eslinda.
07:57So this year, though, the other projects?
07:58All this year.
07:59All this year.
08:00Are there new projects that are coming out?
08:02Are you intending to perhaps make an announcement, make deals in Davos?
08:07Is that part of the plan?
08:08Yeah.
08:08Are you in conversations with?
08:10Yeah.
08:10Well, in conversation, I think it's given.
08:12I think here, this is our first time.
08:14Danantara has been around only 11 months and you followed it from the very beginning.
08:17So for us here, it's actually introducing to potential new partners, things that we're doing.
08:22But we are doing, inshallah, one more in the Middle East, a deal there, which hopefully will announce.
08:28To be announced here, you mean?
08:29No, we'll announce it probably in a month or so.
08:32So please, I can talk to you again.
08:35As you said, it's been about a year.
08:37How has it been for you in running the investment arm of Danantara?
08:41I think it's been fantastic because, you know, I always say we started from a big trust deficit here in Bloomberg.
08:47You were the one who asked that first.
08:49And how can I push it to trust dividend?
08:52So that journey is probably the toughest part that we have to go through.
08:55But I'm so glad that we started at the time when you first interviewed me.
08:58It was only three of us.
08:59Now we're probably closer to 400 people from nine different nationalities.
09:04It's becoming so international.
09:05And we've already created about close to 40 billion of partnership with other sovereign wealth funds.
09:10Now it's how to translate that partnership into dollars, into job creation.
09:16So what would be the priority for 2026 that's different from last year?
09:2112 months on, what would be?
09:23Number one, I think for me, is just execution.
09:26So execution, whatever.
09:27We've been talking with you in terms of the planning.
09:30Last year was really structuring, setting up the business, the entity, recruiting people, setting up governance and partnership.
09:36Now it's executing and all that.
09:38So we're no different.
09:39We're focused on downstream energy security, food security, health care.
09:45Those are key sectors.
09:46Tourism is probably a new one that we're adding now because it's important, including with real estate.
09:50And we're going to work with partners.
09:52So the way we think about Danantara, how do we do partnership with all players, both from private fund managers, public fund managers, and also conglomerates and other institutions?
10:03Geopolitics have pretty much dominated conversations here.
10:06Are geopolitical tensions shaping the way you invest, deploy capital?
10:13More bilateral.
10:14We're doing a lot more bilateral discussion.
10:16It's becoming more important.
10:18Less of a FOMO, I think, what's going on here.
10:20So everyone really looked inwardly, and you can feel that throughout your entire conversation.
10:25So we look at partners now just between you and us.
10:27We don't have to get influence with others are thinking because I think others are also trying to figure out what their agenda is and how should they see the world today.
10:35So what's so interesting today is that most of the deals we're doing are bilateral.
10:40There's not a lot of third-party or fourth-party coming in.
10:43A lot of it is bilateral discussions.
10:45So it's a bit unique than last year.
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