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00:00Mr. Karaganov, thank you very much for joining us.
00:03How do you believe this war will end?
00:08This war could and should be ended only when Russia achieves total defeat of Europe, hopefully without eliminating Europe.
00:23We are fighting not Ukraine, not Zelensky and the like.
00:26Now, we are fighting again the Europe, which has been the source of all ills and all sources of evil in the history of humanity, of two world wars.
00:45The EU has been several times invading us.
00:51Last time it was open in 1941-1945 when 95% of European countries came here under the banner of Hitler.
01:07Now, unbelievably, after all their defeats, they haven't learned the question, the lesson.
01:14They are still pushing for a big war.
01:19I think, I mean, the reason is obviously that it's total failure of the European elites.
01:27But, so, when we talk about the end of this war, it's not about, I mean, doing away with the war in Ukraine, with the source of this war.
01:39And that is the evil Europe, which, by the way, sucked the United States several times into war, and which have been the source of the worst things in the history of humanity.
01:57Including, of course, world wars, including racism, colonialism, and many other bad things.
02:08Including now, they have been the main source of the post-human values, which they have been exporting.
02:16I mean, they partly polluted the United States.
02:21So, now we are fighting that.
02:23They tried to pollute them.
02:25I'm not speaking about all Europe.
02:28I mean, there are many distant people and even countries there.
02:32But the question is that Europe is returning back to where it used to be during the last 500 years.
02:40And that is the source of all evil in the history of humanity.
02:45So, what does it look like to defeat Europe?
02:49The war can't end until Russia defeats Europe, you said.
02:52What does that mean?
02:53For the time being, we are thinking about a piecemeal deal, about analysis, which has been offered by President Trump in good faith over.
03:06Again, until the will of European elites is not to continue confrontation for the sake of saving themselves from covering up for the mistakes they have done.
03:31Now, that war will not stop.
03:36So, I'm rather skeptical as to the short time possibilities of a piecemeal deal.
03:44However, of course, if we achieve something along the road and people will stop to be killed, well, the opportunities should be used.
03:56But I'm pretty sure that their problem is much deeper.
04:01And it is not Ukraine.
04:02It is not the landscape in whomever.
04:05It is that Europe is again returning to its worst.
04:10And that is the source of all evil in the history of humanity.
04:19Why do you think, I mean, I think from an American perspective, it's very obvious that European leaders are focused on Russia in the big countries, Germany, France, Great Britain.
04:31The leadership of all three countries is focused on Russia as the threat.
04:36Why do you think that is?
04:40No, it is very simple.
04:41I mean, I'm a founder of the Institute of Europe and I used to be a Europhile 40 years ago.
04:48And then I learned them better and I became highly skeptical.
04:54They are complete failures on all counts.
04:58I mean, moral, political, economic, etc.
05:00Europe is going down.
05:02Also, they are unable now to exploit the world and to suck the rent from the world which they have been getting due to their
05:17military preponderance over the last 500 years.
05:21And that was stopped in the 60s and 70s.
05:24And they got into a deep crisis already.
05:31But at that time, I mean, for all kinds of reasons, Soviet Union collapsed.
05:36And they believe that their golden age will continue.
05:42But now, they understand that this golden age is finished.
05:46And they are desperate.
05:49They understand that they could not live on others' money.
05:55Also, they start to understand that they could not live on the cushion of US protection.
06:07Because the US is tired of them and they don't need it anymore.
06:14So, there is a total desperation of this layer of globalist, quote-unquote liberal European elites.
06:26Also, there, by the way, process of anti-meritocracy.
06:32I mean, never in the history of Europe have we had such a low level of intellectual capacities in the leadership of most European countries.
06:45Not of all, but of most.
06:47So, Europe is basically out of gas.
06:52It's out of energy.
06:54It's dying.
06:56And so, you're arguing that their leadership sees a defeat of Russia as the only way back.
07:04Continuational.
07:05At first, they thought of a possibility of a defeat of Russia, which was, I mean, a kind of a fantastic illusion.
07:17But still, some people, because of their intellectual, quote-unquote, incapacity, or they are still talking about that.
07:28But what is defeat of Russia?
07:30Just if Russia comes ever close to a defeat, that would mean that Russia now would use nuclear weapons and Europe will be finished physically.
07:40So, I mean, it's simply impossible even to think about it.
07:45But they have been talking because they need a war to rationalize their state in power, to rationalize their existence.
07:57And it is not about even defeat of Russia now.
08:03It is simply keeping on with the failing European Union, with the failing economy, now with fading European positions in the world.
08:24Everybody in the world now loves Europe, which used to be, by the way, one of the core centers of world power.
08:33And now it's a joke.
08:36Of course, I'm not speaking of all Europe.
08:39We know that there are decent Europeans, there are smart Europeans.
08:43Though in my class, political class, of European thinkers, and you are on foreign policy, and defense, etc., etc.,
08:53there's only one or two men or persons left.
08:57I wouldn't name them, because that would jeopardize them in the eyes of the audience.
09:05But nobody else.
09:07I do not have any interlocutor, almost any interlocutor in Europe anymore.
09:14When you say everyone knows that the Russian government, if pressed, would use nuclear weapons against Europe.
09:24Do you mean that, is my question?
09:27And do you think that the Europeans understand that?
09:30Europeans, because they have been, first of all, intellectually degrading after the 1968 so-called student revolution,
09:45which killed most of European education, and because of anti-meritocracy of modern European democratic system,
09:57do not understand or were unable to understand what is happening fully.
10:05And also, they are entertaining what I call strategic parasitism, I don't know how to call it.
10:14They believe that war will never come to their territory.
10:18They forgot about the war, and that it's terrible.
10:22Because they have been their source for most wars in the history of humanity.
10:28But now, they are not afraid.
10:31So, now, one of the tasks of Russia, in addition to others, is to bring them to census.
10:43Hopefully, without using nuclear weapons, only with the threat of their use.
10:49And I'm criticizing my government of being too prudent and too patient with them.
10:58But sooner or later, if they continue to support this war,
11:04sacrificing new millions of Ukrainians and others,
11:10the Russian pursuit of allegedly perseverance will thin, will go thin.
11:21And we will have to punish them severely.
11:28Hopefully, in a limited sense.
11:31It's interesting that you say their leaders no longer fear nuclear weapons.
11:39You would think everyone would fear nuclear weapons, given their destructive capacity.
11:44Why would any person not fear the threat of a nuclear attack?
11:52Because, well, let's put this, we believe that they are like us.
12:00But they are not like us.
12:03They have had a total degradation of the thinking class and the end of the ruling class.
12:12I mean, when the chancellor, quote unquote, of Germany is talking about,
12:17I mean, recreating a Bundeswehr to be the strongest army in Europe.
12:22What does that mean?
12:24That means that he dooms his country for elimination.
12:31I have been talking with Europeans through all, most of my adult life.
12:38I stopped doing that in 1913, when there was a meeting of European leaders,
12:43in which I participated in, and I said that if you continue into this, your system,
12:53there will be a big war and millions of Ukrainians will die.
12:58And nobody dared to look into my eyes.
13:01There were 70 or 80 people.
13:04Most of them, you know, they have degraded to the level that they are dangerous.
13:15Idiots or more idiots.
13:18Yes.
13:19Most, not all of them, but most of them.
13:24You are quoted in one place saying they no longer fear God.
13:30Therefore, they no longer fear war.
13:32How are those two related?
13:35Absolutely.
13:36I mean, they lost, well, not all.
13:39Again, we are normal people in Europe.
13:42They, I mean, Europe has lost its core moral, political, spiritual core.
13:53And now they, as you know, most of them have lost the fear, well, the trust in God.
14:04That doesn't mean, and they lost a normal, losing most of their traits of the human.
14:18Europe is under this leadership or under this leadership is becoming anti-European in terms of historical European.
14:29And even anti-human.
14:33They have brought the Nazis, which was anti-human, etc.
14:41Now they have brought to us, you have been infected with, to the last extent, something absolutely anti-human.
14:52A loss of respect to those family, those love between men and women, those respect for seniors, those patriotism, etc.
15:00What is then Europe?
15:02And, of course, trust in God.
15:06What is left?
15:07I mean, it is a moral hope.
15:24However, of course, I am not speaking about all Europeans who are normal people.
15:30However, of course, I am not, I am not unable to talk to them.
15:34I am not able to talk to them because they are imagined, they are forbidden to talk to us.
15:40And if they talk to us, they are then called and summoned to the police or security services.
15:48And so I have a lot of, still probably a lot of friends in Europe, but I do not have any contacts with them because they are banned.
15:57And because they are elites from talking to us, because their elites are preparing them for war, at least morally.
16:09Though, at least the same elites could not comprehend that if war, a real big war, is unleashed in Europe.
16:21And a war, sooner or later, this war in Ukraine, which we are waging with Europeans, escalates a little bit of Europe.
16:30Thanks God, we have changed our nuclear doctrine.
16:33And recently, our president said, he was very cautious and very polite, he is a very cautious and very polite man.
16:42But he said something very important.
16:44He said that if Europe continues and if Europe gets into real direct conflict with Europe, there will be nobody in Europe to talk to.
16:55But I hope and I beg and I pray that he or us wouldn't have to make this decision.
17:05But, as I've said before, Europe is the source of the most evils and it returns to its worst times.
17:16Twice in the past, roughly the past year, the Ukrainians have tried to, at least twice, try to kill your president, President Putin.
17:26That's my read of it.
17:29Why do you think they did that?
17:33What's the thinking there?
17:35It is very simple.
17:38I mean, they are belligerent.
17:40I mean, some people believe that you could solve the problem of Russia by killing our president.
17:48Our president is, well, I have only one problem with our president.
17:56I mean, some people believe that he is too cautious.
17:59They do not be too cautious and he shows too much perseverance.
18:05I am criticizing him indirectly or sometimes even directly as in our conversation with you.
18:13But they simply want, of course, they could not kill.
18:21It's simply noble hatred of people who have lost their minds.
18:28Well, the question, of course, of doing away with leaders of foreign countries is an American question, as you know.
18:41But they are pumping up hatred towards Russia like mad.
18:48I'm part of a historian.
18:50I must say that even Hitler's Germany, the level of anti-Russian propaganda, Russophobia was maybe weaker or at least equal to what is happening in Europe.
19:07What would happen if your president were to be assassinated by the Ukrainians or Europe or the United States?
19:16What would be the next step?
19:19Well, let's hope that would not happen.
19:22But then, of course, that would mean that we will punish, hopefully not the United States, but Europe will be taken away from the map of humanity.
19:42It should be pushed away from the geopolitical and the geostrategic math because it is a nuisance.
19:52I hope it would not be punished in the physical way.
19:56Though I am starting to say that these idiots do not understand anything but physical pain.
20:03And that's no later.
20:05We will have to go after the escalation.
20:09And if they do not stop this senseless war and still in and around Ukraine, we would have to start to attack Europe with conventional weapons.
20:22And then next step will be waves of nuclear strikes.
20:34I hope we wouldn't reach that point because using nuclear weapons, any weapon is a sin.
20:44But using nuclear weapons is a double sin.
20:47And I don't want Russia to be that big a sin.
20:53We have all our sins.
20:57But if needed, we have to eliminate the European threat to humanity.
21:04How far are we from Russia using nuclear weapons against Europe?
21:09Two years.
21:10Two years.
21:11Two years.
21:12Two years.
21:13One year.
21:14Well, first of all, I've been calling on my government to escalate earlier.
21:24But President Putin is very religious and he's cautious.
21:32And we have been climbing up the ladder of escalation, changing our nuclear doctrine and lowering the nuclear threshold, building up our nuclear potential in Europe and else.
21:47But in the hope that we could stop them before crossing the threshold.
21:53As I've said, I think that Putin believes that using nuclear weapons, and I believe, by the way, is a sin.
22:07But it might be a necessary sin in order to save humanity.
22:12That's why I have been calling for limited use of nuclear weapons against Europe.
22:18Because otherwise, the world would drift into a third world war, towards which Europeans are pushing all of us.
22:29I mean, they have already done that twice in history.
22:34Second in the United States.
22:36You a couple of times saved them.
22:39You Americans.
22:41Now, we once suffered, but then saved them again.
22:45But now they're back.
22:48And with the old game, we have to either to punish them or to help them to change their minds.
23:01And it is not, I'm not calling for regime change.
23:04But if Europeans do not change these elites for more national oriented, for more responsible, they are doomed.
23:17And I hate this idea.
23:21Because culturally, I am European.
23:23Of course, we are moving towards Siberia.
23:26We are moving towards the East.
23:28We are saying, and sincerely, that we are becoming a Eurasian nation.
23:35Or returning back to where we belong to become the Eurasian nation.
23:41But the loss of Europe would be a pity.
23:46Before I ask you about what you think Russia should do relative to the rest of the world, become Eurasian rather than European, which it seems to be doing.
23:56If there were nuclear strikes from Russia into Europe in the next year or two, as you said there may be, what countries would that include?
24:09Well, we are online, so I have written that several times that if we strike Poznan, Americans would never respond.
24:28Americans would never respond anyway.
24:32But if we, but then I hope, the Poz are becoming, by the way, more sensible.
24:38They understand that they, that they are playing with fire.
24:43They're trying to retreat from the front lines of this conflict.
24:48But my choice would be Britain and Germany.
24:53You'd take out Britain and Germany with nuclear weapons.
24:57I beg, I beg, I beg our almighty that wouldn't,
25:02happen.
25:03Yes.
25:04But Germany would be, should be the first.
25:08Because Germany is the source of the worst in Europe in history.
25:17But I hope again, I have many German friends.
25:21I hope that it would be better.
25:25You, I think, just came back from Beijing.
25:28Certainly the ties between Russia and China are much, much deeper than they were four years ago.
25:34From an American perspective, the idea of a permanent Russia-China alliance is a threat to our future, it would seem.
25:44Is that alliance permanent?
25:47Well, for the time being, for the foreseeable future, it is a source of great strength both to Russia and to China and our Chinese friends understand that.
26:01But what will happen in 10 to 15 years, we do not know.
26:10So we are planning for all kinds of futures.
26:12But our best solution is to reach a world where four great powers will be working together for defining, I mean, the rules of behavior in the future world.
26:32These four powers are China, Russia, United States, and India.
26:39And that kind of configuration also means that we will, and we should, and we will, of course, balance the overall preponderance of China vis-a-vis Russia.
26:55But at this juncture, China is a fantastic asset, it is not a threat.
27:02But just in case, we should create this at least four-country system, plus we are building what we call Greater Eurasia.
27:16And that is a system of relationship where China will be balanced by major powers within Eurasia, including India, Persia, Turkey, and Russia, and others.
27:36But the Chinese, I mean, we talked with them sincerely about necessity to balance them.
27:44It is hard for them to solve that.
27:49But they are starting to understand that it is in their interest to create a balance system of the issue within Eurasia.
27:58But worldwide, the United States should be a key player, because without the United States, we will not succeed in dealing with the unbelievable problems we are facing in the coming years.
28:13Does Russia jeopardize its soul by leaving the West, given that it's an Orthodox country, its cultural legacy is Western?
28:23We are saving our soul.
28:28I mean, of course, some of my compatriots would not agree with me, but let us remind you and me and others that our soul came from the East and from the South.
28:44We took Christianity from Palestine, and my Orthodox Church is the true Christianity, because Catholics left at the beginning of their previous millennium.
29:05We parted with them, but still, of course, we are Christians, and we are brothers.
29:12We are very much an Islamic country, 20% of our population.
29:18We also take it from the South.
29:22Then we have a strong Buddhist population.
29:26We also take it from the South East.
29:30And Judaism is also here an acknowledged religion.
29:33And the political system, which we have built over the years, we have inherited from the greatest empire of them all, from the Genghis Khan Empire.
29:46But of course, many Russians would disagree now with me, but it is simple truth.
29:54We are Asian empire with a very strong European cultural influence, which we love and adore.
30:06We will never pass.
30:11But we are not Asian, we are not European, thank God.
30:16And we are now starting to acknowledge that, because our European journey has been to, which Peter the Great started for, because of certain reasons, because we are backward in technological terms.
30:35It is over.
30:36It should have been over 150 years ago.
30:41We, he could have stayed us for many troubles, including things like World Wars, communism, etc.
30:50Now, but now we are partying, but hopefully keeping the traits of European cultural heritage, which we share with you in our hearts and our minds.
31:05What effect, from your perspective, have Western sanctions had on Russia?
31:12Do you believe sanctions hurt Russia?
31:14Yeah.
31:15Or helped?
31:16Oh, yes.
31:17I mean, we invited, I mean, I have been calling for a cooperation with us long before we, stopping, I mean, the expansion of NATO, etc., long before we decided.
31:32Of course, I mean, economically wise, they hurt.
31:37But strategically wise, politically wise, culturally wise, they have been a blessing.
31:43We have, with their help, we have invited fire, unfriendly fire on our own.
31:51We have done away the comprador elites.
31:54We have thrown away, without any repressions, the fifth call.
32:00We are returning back our Russian culture, our Russian soul.
32:05We are becoming Russians.
32:08And the only problem with this sanctions and with this war is that we have to pay for it with the lives of our best men.
32:19But other than that, they have been blessed.
32:24And I do not want them to be lifted.
32:30Of course, someone should be.
32:33So we have a relationship and we earn some additional money.
32:38But Russia, which is threatened, is again a war fighting nation.
32:51We are a nation of wars.
32:54And when we started to be attacked, even indirectly, now directly, then we turn to our best.
33:01And that's why the country is experiencing unbelievable releases.
33:07The only problem is that we are losing the best man.
33:12And that should be stopped.
33:14And that leads to my last question, Mr. Karganoff, which is, you've described this as a war, a civilizational war between Russia and Europe.
33:26What role does the United States, our administration, our president play in ending it?
33:33What can President Trump do to end the war?
33:35Well, I mean, America's were very crucial in starting this war because the whole problem started in the early 2000s when American administration started to peddle to prop up the European issue
33:55because they were afraid of the possibility of building a continental alliance between Russia and Germany.
34:04So, in a way, Americans are also the source, have been a source of the problem.
34:10As to the Trump administration offer, I didn't like the offer which Mr. Trump offered because it doesn't solve the real problem.
34:22The real problem is European hostility, European aggression.
34:29But for the time being, we should use this opportunity, if possible.
34:35And then, of course, we all know that President Trump is curtailed in his internal affairs.
34:46And also, now we see that his offers are deluded by all kinds of efforts from within and by his close and close allies.
35:01But if we could try for a while with his offer, maybe eventually we would end up with the solution of the problem.
35:16And that solution of the problem is, of course, as I've said, is Europe.
35:22However, I do not foresee that, unfortunately, that possibility.
35:28So, even if we stop this war, we should be prepared when the war resumes to do away with the source of this war.
35:38And that is the hostility of European elites and their willingness to fuel warfare on the European subcontinent.
35:55But let's give Trump a chance, although I am not sure whether he or we could succeed under the circumstances.
36:08You know the internal situation in the United States better.
36:11And also, by the way, we could not rely with all our respect to your president on him.
36:20He has a country behind him, which is deeply divided.
36:25He has a huge opposition.
36:29And then he's also playing full games.
36:36And so I don't think, I hope we could arrange something.
36:41But we are watching very carefully the fact that presidential administration has abducted the leader of a big country.
36:55We are watching very carefully that American Marines acting like pirates on high seas, seizing tankers, wearing Russian flags, Russian banners.
37:14If that continues, we will have to go back to rough deterrence.
37:24But we would like to have, if not cordial, but a good relationship with the United States and with other two great countries in the world.
37:39But we will see whether he could deliver.
37:43I think he wants to deliver.
37:46But whether he is able is a big question.
37:49So we keep our fingers crossed.
37:52And let's give us, be absolutely sure.
37:57We hope that he is sincere.
38:00But we do not trust American policies.
38:05And to a certain extent, his proposals look like a honey tramp.
38:15Because nothing happens.
38:18Continue the war.
38:20We are not talking about peace, peace, peace, peace, peace.
38:23I mean, referring to a, who knows who, Zelensky or other people in Europe who are blocking it.
38:32And it seems that this war is continuing and maybe United States in the end do not want to finish this war.
38:42So then we will have to come back to the solution, which I have mentioned several times.
38:54And that is of starting to punish our European enemies with an understanding, hopefully, that the United States would, and knowing that they would refrain from participating in a nuclear war in Europe.
39:21I think it's important for American policymakers and the American citizenry, the country, to understand the Russian perspective.
39:29And I'm grateful that you gave it to us.
39:30Mr. Karaganov, thank you very much for your time.
39:33Thank you. It was a pleasure.
39:35Thank you for me, too.
39:36Thanks very much for watching.
39:37We will see you next Wednesday.
39:39Yeah.
39:40Thanks.
39:41And we will see you next week on Wednesday.
39:43See you next Wednesday.
39:45Craig Day!
39:46See you next Wednesday!
39:47A lot of these in the past better days!
39:48Bye.
39:49Too far.
39:50Ever.
39:51profitable.
39:52Feel free!
39:53You're here indeed.
39:54You're here.
39:55I'm Roger King!
39:56You're here, I want to take care of you.
39:59By the way to hold my hand.
40:00About 10 minutes.
40:01Last Monday in the past has been a couple,鹽oo seesled army, on the details of the Equipe impost On