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00:00Companion Podcast with me, Ed Gamble.
00:02This is the show when we hear from all of the Banished and Murdered players first.
00:06So, spoiler alert.
00:08Please make sure you've watched episode 3 of the Traitors before you watch this.
00:12You have been warned.
00:13Coming up on Uncloaked.
00:17Yep, they've got one already.
00:19Banished Traitor Hugo is here to talk about being caught out by his fellow players.
00:24Murdered faithful Ben joins us to share his experience of the game.
00:27We have the exclusive moment when Ben came face-to-face with Hugo and found out who the Traitors are.
00:33Plus, the secret Traitor is about to be revealed.
00:36We'll be dissecting the mother of all cliffhangers with celebrity Traitor Kat Burns and Series 3 faithful Turn Traitor Charlotte.
00:48Welcome, Kat and Charlotte.
00:50Now, before we get into this, because we've got a lot to talk about, Charlotte, can I ask you about your socks?
00:55Yes.
00:56Look.
00:57They say faithful and traitor.
00:59Amazing.
01:00How good.
01:00I love it.
01:01I love them.
01:01I just think it's nice to have one foot representing each of my roles in the castle.
01:07And Kat, I like your Traitors.
01:11Now, as Traitors, you are used to being in control in the turret.
01:15That's obviously where you do all of your scheming.
01:17But how are Rachel and Stephen feeling in this moment as the secret Traitor is about to walk through the door?
01:22No, I'm really jealous because I basically want to go back and be a secret Traitor.
01:26I'm really jealous.
01:27That red cloak.
01:29Unbelievable.
01:30Yeah, it looks, it's pretty, it's pretty swish.
01:32Yeah.
01:33As my dad would say.
01:36I don't know.
01:38If that was me, I would have just surrendered to the fact that I don't know who it is.
01:40And then each day we get a shortlist, I would just write down or mentally note down who the shortlist people are.
01:47And then if I live to see the day that I get really, really far in, I'd go, right, well, I could just whittle it down.
01:54It's probably one of these people.
01:56That could be it.
01:57Like, I wouldn't be stressed going, I need to find out, like, who the secret Traitor is.
02:01Because I just, I think that's what Rachel's doing too much.
02:03She's not playing, remembering that people might be thinking who, like, who's a Tracer.
02:08Because no one else is thinking there's a secret Traitor.
02:11Because no one else knows there's a secret Traitor.
02:12She's, like, watching everybody.
02:13And I'm like, no, just wait, just chill out.
02:15There's no point.
02:16She's got enough going on.
02:17Yeah, exactly.
02:18She doesn't need to worry about who the secret Traitor is as well.
02:20Yeah.
02:20We're going to go on a deep dive with all the theories.
02:22I do want to know, though, how did we rate Rachel's attempt to get Stephen to the family tree to do the shortlist selection?
02:31What, like, needing to learn some Latin or something?
02:32Yeah, you speak Latin, don't you?
02:34Yeah, I mean.
02:35And Rhys was like, I'll come.
02:36And she was like, oh, man, get away.
02:39No.
02:39In fact, Rhys left straight away.
02:41Just left them in the kitchen.
02:42I know, and then Rhys was like, oh, I don't want to go alone.
02:43I want to go by myself.
02:44Come on, guys.
02:45And she was like, oh.
02:45See, I thought that was quite good.
02:48It was a good excuse to get him to the family tree.
02:50But the bit that really set my teeth on edge a little bit is when she sort of got rid of Rhys to keep her and Stephen alone.
02:57Yeah, I don't think she should have done that.
02:59And then I didn't Stephen clock it.
03:00He was like, well, now Rhys will literally know.
03:03If they spot.
03:03If it comes down, if it's revealed that the death was done by the family tree.
03:08Let's remind ourselves of that moment when Rachel tries to shake off Rhys.
03:12Such a connection here.
03:15There's a big connection here.
03:17Like, that's very, very dangerous.
03:19Yeah.
03:20Speaking of dangerous.
03:22I've honestly.
03:23I need to give you a heads up on something.
03:26I can go if you want me to go.
03:27I don't mind going.
03:28Will you give me, I want to just.
03:30Of course, of course.
03:30Sorry, sorry.
03:31No, don't be daft, don't be daft.
03:33Oh my God.
03:33See, what's interesting about that is she doesn't say, can you go, Therese?
03:37He does offer that.
03:39But I still think he'll remember that they were by the family tree together.
03:42If indeed someone spots on the family tree that there's those marks on there.
03:47I think it was bad wording.
03:48I literally should have just waited it out until Rhys left and got bored of looking at
03:53the family tree.
03:55We should say as well, we know Rhys is a faithful at this point because he's been on a murder
03:58shortlist previously.
04:00Oh.
04:00How do we think they did, Kat, in terms of selecting the people on the portrait?
04:05Do you think they took too long?
04:06I don't think she really thought about it because I guess statistically the secret traitor would
04:11have picked one of those nine anyway.
04:13I would have just put my finger on the painting and just done a line.
04:17Yeah, just smeared it across.
04:18And just tried to cover the bases.
04:20And then signed Ross.
04:21Yeah.
04:23I think Rachel is very, yeah, very thoughtful and she is thinking about it.
04:26She does seem quite a good traitor.
04:27So thinking if I put my finger in the red paint pot, I'm holding a red glass.
04:32Yeah.
04:32So no one would be able to see that.
04:33And then she goes and washes the glass and washes her finger at the same time.
04:36It is like watching a sort of murder plot happen.
04:38Evidence just down the drain.
04:39Yeah.
04:40Yeah, it's very Agatha Christie, the whole thing.
04:42It is.
04:43What do we make of this pact that Rachel and Stephen made?
04:46The extended hug.
04:47Like, I'm never going to vote for you.
04:49I'm never going to vote for you.
04:50Yeah, too much.
04:51Like, I mean, I can't wait for that to be shown in a flashback moment in like two episodes
04:57time.
04:58I mean, it's really early on in the game.
05:00I don't think you should be doing that.
05:02I think Stephen especially has shown that if enough heaters on someone, he will dash them.
05:07So I, if I was Stephen, I would have been like, of course, I'm not voting your name.
05:12Yeah.
05:13And just cross my fingers behind my back.
05:15Yeah.
05:16Because I would have to vote for her if like, yeah, you have to.
05:21So I think that was, you know, that was sweet that they did that.
05:24But I don't think that.
05:25I don't think either of them believed it.
05:27No, I agree.
05:27I don't think there was any sincerity from either side.
05:30I think it is so early on.
05:32And now we're going to meet another secret traitor.
05:34I mean, I honestly, I feel like this with the way Hugo's gone so soon and then the secret
05:40traitor, I could see the traitors at the end being brand new traitors.
05:44Let's talk more about the secret traitor.
05:46I want secret traitor guesses from both of you.
05:49So we know who it isn't because of the murder shortlists.
05:52Yeah.
05:53Rhys, Maz and James are the ones who are left in the game who we know are faithful.
05:57And obviously, Nettie, Judy, Ben and Hugo are all gone.
06:01Kat, who do you think it is and why?
06:03At first, I thought it was Jade.
06:06Maybe because I just think she's a queen and that she's really fab and that she'd be great
06:10at it.
06:11I also did think it was Ellie because she's a psychologist.
06:19Yeah.
06:19And I just thought that would be amazing for a psychologist.
06:21You should be puppeteering everyone and like using her degree.
06:25Fiona as well, because she keeps saying things that might allude to the fact that she could
06:30be one.
06:31Can it be Ross?
06:32It could be Ross.
06:33Oh, it could be Ross.
06:34Should I go really left?
06:35No, Ross is in an absolute tickle.
06:36He's sweet.
06:37He can't get his words out.
06:38He's just panicked all the time.
06:39Can we briefly understand this Ross-Nettie situation of like...
06:43He didn't articulate himself in the best way when probed about it.
06:47And I think because everyone's just looking at people in a really suspicious, with a suspicious
06:52lens, and because he didn't word things the way they wanted him to word things, which is
06:57I think just what the game is.
06:58You act differently to me, and I think that way is weird, therefore I'm voting for you.
07:03Yeah.
07:03So I think for him, he just was like, oh, you know, my plan was just to act like I didn't
07:07know her.
07:07And then people were like, your plan?
07:09What do you mean your plan?
07:10What if he is the secret traitor?
07:11I think that would be great if he was.
07:13Kat, obviously, this is a great opportunity to play the game at home, and this would be
07:17your first time playing as a faithful.
07:19How does that feel?
07:21I don't like it.
07:24You want control.
07:25It's not fun.
07:26I don't enjoy it.
07:27No, it's fun.
07:28I think it's actually, it's fun to not know, and it's fun to be with the rest of the world
07:33and be confused as well.
07:34It's fun to not know who a traitor is without the worry of being murdered.
07:38Exactly.
07:38Yeah.
07:39Exactly.
07:39Okay, now, traitor Hugo and faithful Ben are about to join the conversation, but first,
07:45it's time to find out what happened when they came face to face immediately after leaving
07:50the game.
07:54Ben!
07:56How are you?
07:57Yeah, good, mate.
07:58Oh, good to see you, mate.
07:59I'm here.
08:03What I want to know is what happened at breakfast?
08:06Well, we twigged it was you.
08:07And obviously, we did take a moment to say what an excellent competitor and player you'd
08:13been, and how sorely you'd be missed, so that was definitely the feeling in breakfast.
08:17They were very sad that you weren't there.
08:18Right.
08:19I actually think there's five traitors.
08:21That's what I've written down.
08:23Right.
08:23I've got three little other suspects, but they're my five traitors.
08:26My five traitors are...
08:28Maz.
08:29Yeah.
08:30Amanda.
08:31Yeah.
08:32Ross.
08:33Yeah.
08:34Sam.
08:35Got it.
08:35And you.
08:36Why me?
08:37So you're a barrister.
08:38True.
08:39Right?
08:40We're sitting at the round table, and I'm looking at you.
08:43Now, you're perfect today.
08:45This was you at the round table.
08:49Ah.
08:50As if you couldn't care about anything that was going on.
08:53I was waiting for people to ask questions.
08:56Not once did you cross-examine anybody at the round table.
09:01Right?
09:02And I thought, what is going on here?
09:04Right?
09:05So now I want to know, what were you?
09:09A traitor?
09:10Or a faithful?
09:12You are a very canny man.
09:16What are you telling me?
09:17You're a traitor.
09:18A devil.
09:20You're a traitor.
09:22Yes!
09:23Get in there!
09:24Congrats.
09:25Get in there!
09:25And it's because you were on to me, we thought you would never be banished,
09:29because you were never a traitor.
09:32Everyone could see you were faithful, Ben,
09:34and that's just a massive compliment to you.
09:36You wore your heart on your sleeve.
09:37You were walking around trying to find the traitors every day.
09:41Yeah.
09:41So I hope you take it as a compliment.
09:43No, I do. Thank you.
09:43That you had to be murdered, because you would never be banished.
09:46Yeah.
09:47So, Ben, I bet you want to know who the others were.
09:48Yes, I do.
09:49So, if you reach to your left, sir.
09:54Have a look.
09:54It's in there, the secrets of who the other traitors were.
09:57Oh, this is exciting.
10:00What's it say? Read it.
10:03Hugo.
10:04Oh, you knew that.
10:10Rachel!
10:13Bloody hell!
10:14Now, why are you so surprised?
10:15Oh, she never changed her demeanour at all.
10:18That has really surprised me.
10:19Now, she is canny and under the radar.
10:21When I saw her in the turret,
10:22gee...
10:23I had the same reaction as you just did, Ben.
10:26I thought, no way!
10:27Jesus!
10:28You're so under the radar.
10:30Okay, go on.
10:31And...
10:36Stephen!
10:37Stephen!
10:38Only three.
10:40Well, Ross.
10:41What the hell was Ross doing?
10:43Ross is digging in myself a hole so deep
10:46he could play in Traders Australia.
10:47I mean, that man is entirely innocent
10:51and yet has covered himself in guilt, suspicion.
10:56That's why I thought he was a traitor.
11:00And Traitor Hugo and Faithful Ben are with us now!
11:03Hey!
11:04Thanks for having us.
11:05Welcome.
11:06I have to mention the outfits to start with, guys.
11:08You both look fantastic.
11:10Hugo with the crimson velvet tuxedo.
11:14The lining as well.
11:15Oh, a space-based lining.
11:17And Ben, of course, with the blue...
11:20Midnight blue.
11:21Midnight blue, thank you.
11:22Midnight blue velvet tuxedo.
11:24You look fantastic.
11:25And sometimes it's awkward when you turn up
11:26and you're wearing the same thing,
11:27but I think it's really worked for you guys.
11:29Oh, thank you.
11:30Thanks.
11:31Hugo, you're a real Welshman, of course.
11:33Yes.
11:34How does it feel to come face-to-face with Charlotte,
11:36the fake Welsh person?
11:38Wow.
11:38Not with that.
11:40Shemay!
11:41Shemay, Charlotte.
11:43When they started saying that you were Welsh
11:45towards the end of your departure,
11:47I was like, what?
11:48You didn't sound Welsh at all.
11:50I don't know.
11:50Maybe it's just, it comes and goes.
11:53What did you make of Charlotte's accent on the show?
11:55It was good.
11:55Yeah, it was good.
11:56Because it was low-key.
11:57It wasn't, you know, sing-songy, beautiful Queen Fiona.
12:00You know what?
12:00It had to be.
12:01Because although Fiona was everything I ever wanted to channel,
12:04which is like, absolutely amazing,
12:06mother of dragons, that kind of thing.
12:09Yeah.
12:09It takes so much energy.
12:11Yeah, for her Charlotte church was in the room.
12:14Massively pared back.
12:16Kat, what did you make of Hugo as a traitor?
12:19How do you rate his efforts?
12:20Do you know what?
12:21I think you did a really good job.
12:26Now, can you say that once more without laughing?
12:28No, no, no.
12:30I think the speech was, I think it was when you were like,
12:37whoever did this should not be happy with themselves.
12:41Can we just have a moment?
12:42Because Ben, I was next to him yesterday,
12:44and I was sweating a bit,
12:45but that senior gentleman was giving absolutely everything.
12:49Yeah, yeah, for the mission, he was.
12:50That was a tough mission.
12:51That hill two-thirds of the way through,
12:53whoever has done that is beyond mean.
12:55I think everyone went,
13:01ooh, I think it's you, Sweet Bee.
13:03To be fair, though,
13:04if you'd done that and been a faithful,
13:06it still would have been suspicious.
13:08Like Kaz, I did a Kaz.
13:09That is literally what I said.
13:11I think it's just drawing too much attention to yourself.
13:14And because you are a traitor,
13:16it was like, nah.
13:17Definitely.
13:17You shot yourself in the food.
13:18Big stale, didn't you?
13:19Yeah.
13:20But I was giving you a send-off.
13:22Yeah, mate, you don't need to be so...
13:23It's a funny way to show up, isn't it?
13:25I think it would have been better
13:26if you had done it in a smaller group.
13:28When you were just eating or whatever,
13:30you could have just been like,
13:31oh, do you know what?
13:32Yeah.
13:32Instead of being like,
13:34oh!
13:35But you commanded the attention of the room,
13:37which I think is always a mistake.
13:39Always.
13:39Yeah.
13:39But halfway through,
13:41I thought you've got away with this
13:42because you said,
13:43didn't Ben do well in the mission
13:44and all of that sort of thing?
13:45And people agreed with you.
13:46They went, yeah, he did really well.
13:48And then when you slipped into the second half
13:50and went, it's beyond mean.
13:52And you just see,
13:53you see a shot of Rachel just going,
13:55oh my God.
13:56Rachel's staring.
13:58Ben, we saw that incredible moment
14:00in that clip there
14:01where you accuse Hugo of being a traitor
14:03before he's revealed it.
14:05Yes.
14:05Literally pointing the finger at him.
14:06Yes.
14:07You're a traitor.
14:08Yes.
14:08How did that make you feel
14:09when you found out you were right?
14:10Brilliant.
14:11I got him and I won her.
14:12And I knew it was him.
14:13He was at the round table
14:15and every time I looked at him,
14:17he was like this.
14:18I was off duty.
14:19And I thought,
14:19what is he playing at?
14:20I was off the clock.
14:21I'm a lawyer, right?
14:22The clock wasn't ready.
14:22And then he was gobbing off
14:24left, right and centre to everybody.
14:25Interesting.
14:26I thought, what are you doing, mate?
14:27You know, you're definitely a traitor.
14:30Now, obviously, Ben,
14:31that was a great accusation of Hugo
14:32that we've just seen.
14:34But Hugo,
14:34how did that compare
14:35to being absolutely railroaded
14:38and intensely questioned
14:39by Harriet at the round table?
14:41I was chopped off at the ankles.
14:43I was defeated.
14:43Yeah.
14:44I mean, you know,
14:45yeah,
14:45it was like a machine gun opening up
14:47and there was just no,
14:48there was just no way back to it.
14:49And fair play to her.
14:51I don't know if she's fallen out
14:52with another barrister in the past,
14:53perhaps.
14:54May have been the motivation,
14:55but the delivery of it,
14:56it was like a missile.
14:58But she's hiding that.
14:58So hats off to her,
14:59or wigs off to her,
15:00as we'd say.
15:01Well, let's remind ourselves of that.
15:02Oh, please, let's.
15:03Oh, yes.
15:04It has occurred to me
15:06from the moment
15:07that I found out
15:09that you were a barrister,
15:11that you would be
15:11a prime target
15:13for the traitors
15:14to take out.
15:16You have experience
15:17at cross-examination,
15:18you're good at presenting
15:19your case,
15:20and you're highly articulate.
15:21So I had in my mind
15:24as I came into breakfast
15:25this morning,
15:26if you had survived,
15:28that really raised
15:29big questions in my mind.
15:33A number of people
15:34also said
15:35that they were intimidated
15:37by your professional position
15:40to take you on.
15:42They are hard facts
15:43as far as I'm concerned.
15:46That was intense pressure.
15:48That must have felt
15:48really intense in there.
15:49Yeah, at that point, really.
15:51Yeah, there's not really
15:52much you could do
15:53about thinking about
15:53the exit
15:54and how you're going
15:54to get out of there.
15:56I mean, look,
15:56that logic,
15:58you cannot deny.
15:59As she said,
16:00you're either a traitor
16:01or the traitor's going to think,
16:03well, this guy eventually
16:04is going to do something useful.
16:05So why didn't they
16:06get rid of me?
16:07So I had a strategy,
16:09which obviously didn't work.
16:10Well, first of all,
16:10enjoy the short time
16:12you've got there.
16:13Try and do a couple of,
16:13you know, mess around a bit.
16:15And second,
16:16be chaotic, not slick,
16:17because people think
16:18a lawyer's going to be
16:19really professional
16:21and down the line.
16:21That didn't buy me much time.
16:23And then,
16:23and this was just
16:24such a moonshot,
16:26if I could find a traitor.
16:28I may be one of the only
16:29traitors ever
16:30on this fantastic show.
16:32A traitor genuinely
16:33looking for a traitor,
16:34the secret traitor.
16:35Because as you guys know,
16:36when you are a traitor,
16:38you have to act
16:39like a faithful.
16:39So that was a really good
16:40headspace to be in,
16:43was like looking for one.
16:44Did you have an inkling
16:45in that moment with Harriet
16:46that you were
16:46going toe-to-toe
16:48with a fellow barrister
16:50or ex-barrister as Harriet?
16:51100%.
16:51I thought that she was,
16:53yeah,
16:54a very senior,
16:55respected lawyer
16:56who we just hadn't
16:57crossed paths.
16:58Or even worse,
16:59perhaps she'd sent me a brief
17:00and I'd, you know,
17:01been against her.
17:02But there was something there
17:03that was not on display.
17:05Just in that moment
17:06when she said that.
17:06That was motivating her.
17:07But then, as I say,
17:08the execution of it
17:09was just...
17:10Outstanding.
17:10Yeah, and she was
17:12telling the truth.
17:12But she's kept it a secret,
17:14her profession.
17:15Yeah.
17:15Did you consider hiding yours?
17:17I did, I did.
17:18But I thought, again,
17:20go in there
17:20and don't treat it like a court,
17:22treat it like a stage.
17:23Yeah.
17:23And I was kind of
17:24trying to channel
17:24like Phantom of the Opera
17:26meets, you know,
17:27some sort of slapstick.
17:28Sorry, mate.
17:30Is that right?
17:30There was a,
17:31there's a wonderful moment
17:32in that exchange as well
17:33where you are trying
17:35to dig your way out
17:36of this hole
17:36as Harriet's speaking
17:37and you say,
17:38well, yeah,
17:38a lot of people have mentioned
17:39that I've not been
17:39cross-examining anyone
17:40at the round table.
17:41And Harriet goes,
17:42yeah, I hadn't even
17:43considered that.
17:43But yeah, that's also
17:44part of my argument
17:45against you.
17:46Yeah, well, I'll have that.
17:47Yeah, thanks, mate.
17:50Taxi!
17:51Now, obviously,
17:52Stephen voted for you
17:53at this round table,
17:54turned on you very early.
17:55Did you expect that
17:56to happen so early
17:57in the game?
17:57Look,
17:58trade is going to
17:58trade, trade, trade, trade, trade.
18:00You've got to just
18:00shake it off, shake it off.
18:02The names for traitors,
18:04we're all traitors.
18:05Yeah, of course.
18:07But he didn't have to.
18:08You know, it's so early on,
18:09he could have voted
18:10for someone else
18:10and it wouldn't be,
18:11I don't think,
18:12suspicious to have
18:12voted for anyone else.
18:14Yeah, I think he saw
18:14the way he was going.
18:15Yeah, but I think
18:16he was panicking.
18:16I think Stephen
18:17was actually panicking
18:18and he thought to himself,
18:19I'm going to join the Klan
18:20and I'm going to vote.
18:21Yeah, that's a good,
18:22because he was under pressure
18:23because he was under pressure.
18:24Because he was in the room.
18:24Right, so he thought to himself,
18:26right, I'm going to vote for you.
18:27Yeah.
18:27Then it takes a bit
18:28of pressure off me.
18:29Yeah.
18:29And that's what I think he did.
18:31Yeah, I've got no problem with it.
18:32I mean, the best dressed traitor.
18:34I mean, he was,
18:34Oh, yeah.
18:35And his lovely sort of soft voice
18:37and then he's the brutal killer.
18:39It's just great.
18:40So obviously there was
18:41a lot of chat about
18:42keeping your behaviour consistent
18:44after the trade selection.
18:46I think we are sat
18:47with the absolute queen
18:48of staying consistent
18:49after the trade selection.
18:51Kat, what do you think
18:52Hugo could have done
18:53to maybe stay under the radar
18:55as you did?
18:56I think jobs play
18:58a really big part in the game
19:00because I'm a singer
19:01and I make vulnerable songs.
19:03It's easier for me to,
19:04my disposition to just be
19:06naturally calm and quiet
19:07because it's hard
19:09when you're a traitor,
19:10when you know someone
19:10is a faithful to go for them
19:12and say,
19:12I think you're a faithful
19:13because of X, Y, and Z
19:14and know that they're going
19:15to come back and go,
19:16well, I'm not because of X, Y, and Z
19:17and you know that they're not.
19:19So it's easier.
19:20That's why most traitors
19:21will sit back
19:22because they're like,
19:22I know none of these people are
19:23so I'm just going to...
19:24So because your job,
19:26people would expect you
19:27to speak up
19:28and say something
19:28because you didn't,
19:29that backfired.
19:30So I think if I was you,
19:31I probably would have tried
19:33my hardest
19:33to go for people a bit more
19:36or say theories
19:37a bit more
19:38so that people think
19:39that you're actively trying
19:41to be in the game
19:42and find a traitor.
19:43Ben, I do want to ask you this.
19:44You mentioned that
19:45Hugo was one of your five names,
19:48as we know.
19:49Well, he was number one.
19:50Is he who you would have gone for
19:51at the next round table?
19:53Yes.
19:53Would you have voted for...
19:54Yes, 100%.
19:55Yeah.
19:55Really?
19:55I did, yeah, 100%.
19:57Judy, I changed my mind
19:59with Judy, right?
20:00I was actually going to go
20:02for Ross, right?
20:04Surprisingly.
20:05But the consensus,
20:07the opinion round the table,
20:08I just followed everybody else
20:09because everything
20:10that was coming out,
20:11I thought maybe I'm wrong here
20:12and it is Judy.
20:13But then it was him.
20:14He was next.
20:15In fact, if I had two votes,
20:17I'd have voted him twice.
20:18Well, it's nothing personal, mate.
20:20I would have killed you twice.
20:27Hugo, after you left,
20:29after you were banished,
20:30we saw Rachel being quite delighted
20:32that you'd been banished.
20:34She maybe said it
20:34on two or three occasions,
20:35going, I'm absolutely...
20:36Using the word delighted,
20:37I'm absolutely delighted
20:38that Hugo's gone.
20:39How does that feel?
20:40Well, I took the opposite meaning.
20:42No, and those two,
20:47because of the way
20:48they're playing it
20:48under the radar,
20:49I think they're a very,
20:50very well-matched,
20:51very good team.
20:52Actually, the three of us,
20:53we got on in the turret.
20:55We never really disagreed.
20:57Well, we didn't have much choice.
20:58You thought you got on.
20:59Yeah, yeah, fair enough.
21:01Behind closed doors.
21:01Well, it's the traitors, right?
21:03It is the traitors.
21:03Because I think quite quickly,
21:06Rachel was saying,
21:07Hugo will throw me under the bus
21:09at the first given opportunity.
21:10Rachel didn't trust you
21:12straight away.
21:12I messed that up
21:13because I said
21:14I'd throw the secret traitor
21:15under the bus
21:16when they came into the thing.
21:17And Rachel picked me up
21:18and said,
21:18well, you're going to do
21:19the same to us.
21:19So, you know,
21:20day one, lesson one
21:21of diplomacy school.
21:22Yeah.
21:22Don't, you know.
21:24Yeah.
21:24Because you can't trust anyone.
21:26Like, even if you're
21:26team traitor or team faithful,
21:28you are really just team you.
21:29Yeah.
21:30You can only really
21:31look out for yourself.
21:32I think so.
21:32Ben, I want to talk
21:33about your murder
21:34a little bit now.
21:35Oh, dear.
21:35What was it like
21:37to walk in
21:38and see the dreaded envelope
21:39on the chair?
21:40Oh, what a nightmare
21:41that was, wasn't it?
21:42That was...
21:43But there again,
21:43I've got to say,
21:45I've won
21:46by being on that show.
21:48Right?
21:48Whether I was murdered or not,
21:50to be on the show,
21:50I've won already.
21:51Yeah.
21:52So, to see the envelope,
21:53I knew it was part of the game,
21:55but I was absolutely gutted.
21:57And I knew it was him.
21:58I knew, hands down,
22:00it was him.
22:01I don't even know
22:02why I'm sitting here
22:02Oh, mate, come on.
22:04It's because I know your point.
22:05And I was absolutely gutted,
22:07but I was thrilled
22:08to do the game.
22:09And I think I said that
22:10on my exit.
22:11Yeah.
22:11Yeah.
22:12But to be fair,
22:13we wouldn't have chosen
22:14that shortlist.
22:15And we did have
22:17a choice of three.
22:19So, and there were four of us,
22:20we know now,
22:21that put you in the frame.
22:22So, there were two others
22:23that you could have picked
22:24rather than me.
22:24Yeah.
22:25Or I'm a quarter guilty.
22:28But you were an amazing detective
22:30and that's why
22:31I was happy to vote for you.
22:32Because when you asked me
22:33sort of four or five questions
22:34on the bounce,
22:35I thought,
22:35I cannot get anything
22:36past this one.
22:37Yeah.
22:38Seriously.
22:38So, you were an amazing
22:39sort of detective,
22:40investigator character,
22:41I think,
22:42picking up on every little thing
22:43that was said and done.
22:45And you were so nice,
22:46you know,
22:46we had to get rid of you
22:47because you never
22:47would have been banished, mate.
22:48Yeah, I know you said that.
22:49That was really kind of you.
22:50That's true.
22:51Do you think this is truthful
22:52or do you think he's
22:53dressing it all up as a compliment?
22:53No, I think that bit's truthful
22:55because he actually said that to me.
22:57He says,
22:57I don't think you were ever
22:58going to get banished
22:59and I think that came across
23:01when they were all
23:01speaking at breakfast anyway.
23:03Yeah, I think so.
23:03I really appreciated that.
23:05Yeah.
23:05That's the only thing
23:06I'll take is pause it.
23:08Oh, well.
23:10Charlotte,
23:10would you have chosen
23:12to murder Ben
23:13on that shortlist?
23:13Because the rest of the shortlist
23:14was Rhys and Maz.
23:16It was Maz's second time,
23:17wasn't it?
23:17It was.
23:18On the list of three.
23:18So, to be honest,
23:19I'd probably just be like,
23:20yeah, okay,
23:21two strikes.
23:22Yeah,
23:22but we didn't know
23:23in the turret
23:24what was the secret traitor
23:26thinking
23:26to put Maz on twice.
23:28In a way,
23:29it protects the secret traitor
23:30because if you keep
23:31repetition on the list,
23:33you're not,
23:34every time they put
23:34a new name on the list,
23:36you know
23:36they're not the secret traitor.
23:38Yeah, exactly.
23:38So, by repeating it.
23:39Yeah, God,
23:40it's like three dimensions.
23:41No, I know.
23:42I mean, frankly,
23:43we were saying
23:43they should have repeated
23:44both two
23:45and then just changed one.
23:47So, I think
23:48that's sensible from them.
23:50I would have got rid of Rhys.
23:51Yeah?
23:51I would have kept you in, Ben.
23:53Yeah.
23:54Oh, you're so lovely.
23:56There we are.
23:57But it was the,
23:58it was the choice
23:59to murder...
24:00I love you, Kat.
24:01Yeah, I love you too.
24:02I think,
24:03I think they went for you
24:04and I may be wrong,
24:05Hugo, as well
24:06because you were
24:07the most liked
24:08or the one that
24:09everyone thought
24:10why would you ever kill Ben
24:11and it causes the most chaos.
24:13Yeah.
24:13That's right.
24:14An earthquake under the castle
24:15and all that kind of thing
24:16and it did,
24:17it did
24:17because it has people
24:18looking in every direction
24:19and then they're all
24:19snapping at each other.
24:20Yeah, I totally agree with that
24:22because if I'd have been a traitor,
24:24I'd have done the same.
24:25Yeah.
24:25Absolutely.
24:26I'd have looked at,
24:26well, the person that was,
24:29I'm not saying I was popular
24:30but the person that was
24:31kind of under the radar
24:32that was quite nice
24:33had a bind him.
24:35Yeah.
24:35Without a doubt.
24:37Okay, Ben and Hugo,
24:38I have to get both of your thoughts
24:39on the twist of the century
24:40which is, of course,
24:41the secret traitor
24:42which you were party to
24:44at the moment
24:45we find out about
24:45the secret traitor, Hugo.
24:46But Ben,
24:48I mean, you're obviously
24:48just finding out about it
24:49as you watch the show go out.
24:51Watch the show, yeah.
24:51Yeah.
24:52We know that Maz is a faithful
24:54but can I get your reasons
24:56as to why you suspect
24:57the other players
24:58that you put on your list, please?
25:00Because obviously
25:01one of them could be
25:02the secret traitor.
25:03You've got Amanda
25:04who you suspected.
25:05Yeah.
25:06Why do you think
25:06she might be a traitor?
25:07Amanda,
25:08Amanda to me
25:09was very,
25:10she was very inquisitive.
25:11She was like a lawyer,
25:15I suppose,
25:15or a barrister
25:16or detective
25:17or something like that.
25:18She was questioning
25:19everything that was going on
25:20and I thought,
25:20right, okay,
25:21why is she doing that?
25:22And she was having a go
25:23at you quite a lot,
25:24wasn't she?
25:25Right?
25:26She's not all Ben.
25:27And I thought,
25:28right, okay,
25:28I'm going to give you
25:29the benefit of the doubt here
25:30but I've still got this
25:3110% about you
25:32that I'm not fully
25:33covered with.
25:34Yeah.
25:35So that was kind of her.
25:36Such an amazing moment
25:37at breakfast as well
25:38when they all start talking
25:39about how funny it would be
25:40if there was a secret detective
25:42in there.
25:42Yeah.
25:43And she just has to sit there
25:44like...
25:45Yeah.
25:46You also suspected Ross.
25:48We know that there was
25:49a lot of suspicions
25:50around Ross.
25:50Oh, Ross was really...
25:52Is that mainly because
25:53of the Nettie situation
25:54and how he reacted to it?
25:55Yeah, it was a Nettie situation
25:57and then if you watch it back
25:58when Judy goes,
26:00right,
26:00now everybody goes,
26:01oh,
26:02like that.
26:03Ross is,
26:04whoa!
26:05Right?
26:05If you watch his reaction
26:07and I thought,
26:07that's a bit over the top.
26:08So that's why I was
26:09heading down his route.
26:11Well,
26:11I think we can agree
26:12that the Secret Traitor
26:13twist is gigantic.
26:15It's one of the biggest twists
26:16that's ever been on the show.
26:17Yeah.
26:17Hugo,
26:18you referred to it
26:18as feeling like middle management.
26:20Yes.
26:21When Claudia told you
26:22what was happening.
26:23How did you feel
26:24that moment
26:25when Claudia
26:26let you know
26:27that someone else
26:27would be feeding you
26:28the shortlist every night?
26:29I wanted a direct report
26:31to my Queen of Darkness.
26:33It was really annoying
26:34because
26:35I wanted to kill Fiona,
26:37for example,
26:37because I couldn't lie to her
26:38because she was just
26:39like lying to my mum
26:41or my biggest sister
26:41and I just couldn't lie to her
26:42so I wanted her gone.
26:44And just not to have
26:45the freedom at all
26:46to be dictated to
26:47by someone else
26:48and we couldn't even figure out
26:49if the Secret Traitor
26:51was trying to help us
26:52or just look after themselves.
26:53We really were all at sea.
26:54I think they're probably
26:55just trying to look after themselves.
26:56I think that makes sense.
26:57As a lover of the game,
26:59it's genius.
26:59It is now three-dimensional
27:00Traitor, isn't it?
27:02But yeah,
27:02in the moment,
27:03it was annoying.
27:04And the red cloak.
27:05I'm sorry,
27:05but I never thought
27:07the green cloak
27:07would look inferior.
27:09Oh, thanks.
27:10I want to wear that red cloak.
27:12We now know
27:13that the Secret Traitor
27:14is going to rejoin
27:15the Traitors in the turret.
27:16But you had no idea
27:17what was going to happen
27:18in the future,
27:19whether you would ever know
27:20who the Secret Traitor is.
27:21Right,
27:21you don't know how
27:22it's going to play out.
27:22You don't know whether
27:23that hierarchy
27:24that you talk about
27:24is going to be there
27:25constantly.
27:26So it was completely baffling.
27:29Hugo,
27:29what's it like
27:30watching Rachel and Stephen
27:31navigate the game
27:32now you're gone?
27:33Are you going to be
27:34rooting for them
27:34or will you be delighted
27:35if there's a downfall?
27:37No,
27:37I wish them all the best.
27:38I think they were playing
27:39it absolutely properly
27:40and they're both
27:42very canny,
27:43smart people
27:43and they're both
27:44lovely people.
27:45Yeah,
27:46we were all traitors together
27:47and I would have taken
27:48the first opportunity
27:48to knife them in the front
27:50with alacrity.
27:52Yeah.
27:53Now,
27:53we're out of time
27:54for part one,
27:55but we'll keep chatting
27:56over on BBC Sounds.
27:57I'm going to ask Hugo
27:58who he would have murdered next
27:59and we'll find out
28:01if Ben told Claudia
28:02he wanted to be a Tracer
28:03or a Faithful.
28:04Plus,
28:04there'll be more
28:05from Charlotte and Cat.
28:06It's all in your bonus episode
28:08of Uncloaked
28:08which you can hear right now.
28:10Just scan the QR code
28:11on the screen
28:12and listen as you get ready
28:13for bed.
28:14I'm back on Wednesday night
28:15straight after episode four
28:16with all the reactions
28:17to that secret traitor reveal.
28:19It's a huge moment.
28:20Who's it going to be?
28:21Big thanks to Cat,
28:22Charlotte,
28:23Hugo and Ben
28:24and to you at home
28:25for watching.
28:25I'm Ed Gamble.
28:27Stay Faithful.
28:27Find out who
28:32the secret traitor is
28:33Wednesday night
28:34at 8 on BBC One.
28:35Press red now
28:36for match of the day
28:37highlights of today's
28:38four Premier League games
28:39on iPlayer
28:40ahead of the main show
28:41at 10.30
28:41and even in the darkest places
28:43there's still room
28:44for hope,
28:44understanding and change.
28:46Brand new drama
28:46waiting for the out
28:47here next.
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