- 5 minutes ago
On this Special Report, India Today launches '3Cs' (Candid Constructive Conversations) to debate if India should follow Australia’s ban on social media for children under 16. Dr. Amit Sen, Director of Children First, highlights a 'five-fold increase in symptoms of depression' post-COVID due to screen time. Principal Sharmila Bakshi notes that the 'average person scrolls about five kilometers' daily, urging a return to offline childhoods. Influencer Saru Mukherjee Sharma and Senior Consultant Richa Tandon discuss parental roles and technical feasibility. The panel explores whether a ban or better regulation is the solution for India’s digital generation.
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00:00Good evening, viewers. Children and smartphones today are almost inseparable.
00:06Social media is no longer just entertainment. It's embedded in our everyday lives.
00:12Facebook, Instagram, Reels and Shorts are now literally at our fingertips.
00:18And somewhere along the way, endless scrolling has now become the new normal.
00:24To confront this growing concern, Australia has implemented a social media ban.
00:28Children under 16 are now banned from using major social media platforms, including TikTok, X, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube and Threads.
00:41No new accounts, existing profiles shut down.
00:45It's the first ban of its kind anywhere in the world and it's being closely watched by the governments everywhere.
00:53Which brings us to the big question.
00:55Should India follow Australia's lead?
00:59Should we, in fact, force platforms to block under 16 users or face fines?
01:07Especially when studies show that nearly 95% of Australian children between 13 to 15 years were already scrolling their way into what was being seen as anxiety loops.
01:18In India, the scale is far bigger and far more complex.
01:23Here, 76% of smartphone-owning teenagers say that social media takes priority over studies.
01:32In fact, in rural India, that number crosses 80%.
01:36So what really is the answer?
01:38A firewall for the future or freedom guided by families and education?
01:43Do we ban the scroll or teach the swipe?
01:46That's the debate tonight.
01:48And I'll be asking those questions to the guests who will be joining me shortly because this is India Today Group's big project.
01:58We have launched 3Cs, which is the Candid Constructive Conversations, a platform that brings together people with opposing views to talk, listen and engage with empathy.
02:09These conversations are not led by politicians, journalists or party spokespersons.
02:15They are shaped by ordinary Indians, you and me, citizens who live with the consequences of the issues being discussed.
02:22And that really is the essence of the 3Cs, real voices, real experiences and real conversations.
02:30Because, ladies and gentlemen, India needs dialogue, not just debates, because disagreements doesn't have to mean disrespect.
02:40And because behind every opinion, there is a story.
02:43First up, listen to this conversation, which is now up on our YouTube channels.
02:48And then I bring in the guests.
02:49As parents, and I really want to say this, I had to buy an iPad for my son.
02:57Now, when it comes to social media, unfortunately, we live in times where the negatives outweigh the positives a lot.
03:03I feel that, you know, we've put our kids on a bicycle, on a downhill, with they knowing how to write down, but no break safe.
03:11My daughter learned English more through Peppa Pig, rather than her preschool or me teaching her.
03:17The play-based childhood has completely vanished.
03:20Unfortunately, this world is a reality.
03:23It has robbed children of spaces and opportunities and experiences.
03:30Obviously, yes, you would see some negative comments.
03:33It is, again, a way how you embrace it.
03:35How much ever we want for the world to slow down, for the technology to slow down, or our children to be technology-free or screen-free, it's almost impossible.
03:49Let's face it.
03:50So we might as well embrace it in a regulated, moderated way.
03:58And joining me now is Sharmila Bakshi, principal of the Wasanth Valley School here in the National Capital.
04:05Dr. Amit Sen is the director and co-founder of Children First.
04:10He is a psychiatrist.
04:12Saru Mukherjee.
04:14Sharma is a mom and influencer as well.
04:16She was part of this entire 3C Conversations.
04:19We also have Richard Tundon, senior consultant and also a technical developer.
04:28I'm going to begin with you, Ms. Bakshi.
04:31With 76% of 14 to 16-year-olds using phones more for fun videos than studies,
04:42would Australia's under-16 ban widen the gap?
04:47Because city kids find ways around it?
04:51Or the sense would be that the children in the rural parts of India would perhaps lose an important learning tool?
05:03You know, it's how we look at the telephone.
05:05I mean, if you're looking at a mobile as a learning tool, I think COVID was, you know, gave us the time for us to use.
05:15A lot of children during COVID used the telephone as their learning tool, as the mobile, because we were all taking classes online and it helped children connect with the schools at that time.
05:28But while it was a learning tool, it also did a lot of negative things for children, you know, I think in terms of emotional well-being, the security and even the development of the child.
05:41I think the telephone really robs children of at least what we experienced as children, as childhood.
05:48I've just come back from a family get-together, and it was so sad to see there were these six children in the room who were all sitting together, but all on their phones.
06:01And I think it is so sad because earlier as children, we would go out, we would play, we would have so many games which involved our imagination, our creativity, our just coming together as family.
06:15It would be so important, but now all children are stuck on their phones, and I think that is just so unfortunate.
06:23Yes, that's right. So, Saru, come in on this as a parent voice. Australia's ban finds platforms for kid accounts.
06:33And as far as working moms are concerned, many would say that sometimes parents also let their children be with their phones.
06:46Dr. Ms. Bakshi just shared her experience with regards to what she saw at a gathering.
06:54Many would say that this is now something that we see on a daily basis, where children are stuck with their mobile phones.
07:02Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. It is a rather sad reality of today that not just children, actually, grown-ups adults, you would see them more often.
07:14And especially what I've noticed, that even when you're sitting next to each other, rather than being present and talking to one another, we are always on our phones.
07:25So, I do tend to have these conversations at my place very, very often, and I make sure that at least when we're sitting together, we are actually being the right role model.
07:36Because I feel like we, as parents, need to lead with example.
07:43And if we are not setting the right example for our children of how we use social media, because my entire work is on social media.
07:50But having said that, you wouldn't find me on my phone all the time.
07:54But when I am, I will excuse myself, and I will, you know, use my another room, where I usually dedicate that room for my work.
08:03So, that is how I am, you know, setting an example in front of my son, that even when my entire work is on social media, I'm not consumed by it.
08:13I'm creating content, but I'm not consumed by it.
08:15And also, it also depends a lot on how your day goes, like your daily routine.
08:22If you, as parents, of course, we are working, if the child is busy constructively, then he has very little time to spend on, you know, social media.
08:34So, I feel like a lot of these things, if we are able to regulate at our place, then banning will not be required, is what I feel.
08:42Okay, Dr. Sen, from your clinical studies, with data showing now that there is a surging adolescent anxiety, which is definitely linked to scrolling,
08:57would it then justify Australia like under-16 ban?
09:02Or does India's parental consent model under what we have, like that is the DP, DPA, which is better placed to address a concern of this nature?
09:18See, I think to start with, we must recognize that the rates of mental health challenges has spiked shortly after COVID.
09:27And that is because so much of time is spent on gadgets, on social media, and there was no option, so we had to do it.
09:35And that trend continues.
09:37And there is, during COVID times, there was a five-fold increase in symptoms of depression, anxiety, substance misuse, self-arm, including suicide.
09:47We've not seen as many suicides in the last 20 years as we have seen in the last two.
09:52So it's shocking, it's alarming, and I have no doubt, and in our practice also we see this over and over again,
10:00and there are newer studies that are coming up, which some say that it's a 50% increase in mental health disorders,
10:05and they attribute largely that to the lifestyle and the things that have happened post-COVID to children and young people.
10:12These are formative years.
10:13The most vulnerable time of growth and development is between 10 to 15, from the tweens to, yeah?
10:19And that is the time when children are wanting to explore the world, but they're equally vulnerable, they're gullible, you know, they can be led very easily.
10:27They're curious, and when they get this free reign to explore a medium or a space which we have no idea about,
10:36in fact, they probably know more about it than we do as adults, you know?
10:39So to say that, you know, adults will control it and supervise it is really, you know, putting our heads in the sand
10:48and not even realising what kids are capable of doing.
10:51If they're given this free reign, they can go buzzer in, you know, in the social media.
10:56And, you know, besides, of course, the bullying, the trolling, you know, having to fit in,
11:01exploitation and abuse is such and such a major issue, you know?
11:04So children are constantly stretching themselves to fit in and to belong, you know?
11:10And that, you know, takes a huge toll on their mental health.
11:13Yes. So, Richa, as a tech expert, what do you think is best?
11:18School lessons, parental control or full ban, which stops phones from changing childhood?
11:26Thank you. So, as I had already shared in the video also, I would like to maintain that we,
11:36the only solution to this problem is a delay.
11:39We have to delay giving phones to our children.
11:42We have to delay their social media accounts.
11:44And the reason being that, as Saru mentioned, that we can have a supervised parent,
11:53I mean, as parents, we have to supervise.
11:55And moderation is the key.
11:57But we are talking of families who are not so maybe literate
12:03or who do not have that kind of an exposure or understanding
12:06and they don't have the time for that moderation.
12:09So we are talking, not just talking of families who are working in cities and metros,
12:14we are also talking of a very, very large population of children
12:17who are in the rural areas, who have absolutely no idea
12:22of what they are watching on social media.
12:24And you would see a lot of them, I mean, so many helpers come to our place
12:28and all their children are just busy scrolling.
12:32They have accounts and the kind of content they are consuming,
12:36the kind of content that they are generating and creating, it is worrisome.
12:39So, moderation is fine if we are only talking of a certain segment of people
12:45and, I mean, of population.
12:49But when we are talking of it at a larger scale
12:52compared to the entire population of India,
12:55I think the majority is rural.
12:56And they have absolutely no idea on how to check this, how to moderate this.
13:01So then what is the role of the school here, Ms. Bakshi?
13:04Should schools teach safe use first for teens
13:08who perhaps own phones by 14 or 15 or 16?
13:12Definitely.
13:13I think there is a lot of education that needs to be done
13:17both for the parents and for the children.
13:19And I think just getting children offline, you know,
13:23making them see how life is so valuable and so interesting
13:30outside your telephones and outside the social media.
13:34I mean, that going out to play with a friend is much more sort of entertaining
13:40and a lot of fun rather than being stuck to your phone and scrolling.
13:44You know, I believe average person who scrolls
13:48is about five kilometers with your thumb.
13:50And that is so wrong for a child to do.
13:55And I think with children, you know, they become,
13:58they actually are praised on social media.
14:00They are, they get addicted to, you know, content.
14:05They are watching things which adults have no control over.
14:09They are, you know, they also have this completely distorted sense of reality,
14:13which is because they have influencers, they are, you know,
14:17who are using filters.
14:19So their understanding of themselves is so flawed
14:24because they are always mirroring themselves on people
14:27who are not real in life.
14:30Yes.
14:30And you know, it's interesting that my sister got an email
14:35from my nephew's teacher who said that the family should allow a phone for him
14:42because he's 14, doesn't have a phone, doesn't carry a phone to school
14:46because that's an important learning tool.
14:49Of course, they live in Pennsylvania.
14:51So maybe they have different standards.
14:53But the larger issue here is also, Saru, of reals fueling aspirations,
15:00but it is also exposing divides.
15:02Should we push family-guided apps then over bans,
15:08then, you know, so that the kids who are in urban pockets
15:12don't get time to perhaps dodge via proxies
15:16because moms become powerless then?
15:21Absolutely.
15:22If that is something can be done,
15:23the family-guided devices or apps,
15:26that would be great.
15:28But like she rightly said,
15:29that the problem,
15:30because we have these conversations very often in our environment
15:36about what kind of impact it has on children's mental health
15:39and, you know, how it, like Ma'am rightly said,
15:43that it's distorting their version of reality.
15:46And it is sadly very, very true.
15:48Now, we may have these conversations
15:50and our children can be aware,
15:52but the larger part of the society,
15:54I guess school has a major role to play there
15:58of how they are educated,
16:00how teachers have these conversations
16:02with those children and their parents.
16:06Because, see, I mean,
16:08when we're talking about banning,
16:10basically you won't be a child below the age of,
16:14I don't know, 16,
16:15may not be able to create an account.
16:17There's only one setting, I guess,
16:19that needs to be done.
16:20But the problem is that I have an account
16:23and if I'm handing my phone to my son,
16:25then the entire purpose is defeated.
16:28So that doesn't really solve the purpose.
16:31I have a cousin who lives in Australia
16:33and they say that children,
16:35most of the children are already still using,
16:37you know, social media,
16:38despite the ban.
16:40So it is not really enforced.
16:42Not really enforced.
16:43So, Richa, can verifiable age gates
16:47and design curbs be put in place
16:51where the role of big techs comes into
16:54because they have to make their tools,
16:57their apps place-sensitive
17:00or geographical, culturally sensitive
17:04to a particular geography.
17:06Yeah.
17:07So it's not just the role of a particular tech company
17:11or a parent, I would say.
17:12It is an entire ecosystem that needs to change.
17:15So firstly, you don't need apps
17:17for children who are less than 16.
17:19I think there is no social media presence
17:21that is required.
17:22You can have various learning tools
17:24and there were,
17:24there were many present in our times also.
17:27So you basically don't need a social media account
17:29to be more creative
17:31or to really learn a lot of things.
17:34Second, I think it is a very big role
17:36of a school and parent also.
17:38So like Saru said,
17:39that in places where parent cannot guide,
17:41the school holds the primary responsibility
17:44of guiding the children.
17:46And thirdly, why I am in favor
17:48of a ban or a complete block
17:50is because things that are not available
17:52cannot be misused.
17:53It's a simple fact.
17:55So there is tobacco available in the market.
17:57There is, there are drugs, there are vapes.
17:59The only thing that you stop your child
18:01from doing is that don't.
18:03You don't have to use it.
18:04You don't tell them that it's there.
18:05Use it when you're 16,
18:07use it when you're 18
18:08or use it when you're grown up.
18:09You just say that no,
18:10it's not allowed
18:11and you don't have to do it
18:12because it's not good for you.
18:13So anything that's not available
18:15will not be misused.
18:17So I feel that it has to be a big no
18:20till they are at an age
18:21where their brain is developed enough
18:23to figure out what's good for them,
18:24what's bad for them.
18:26And I think it's true
18:27for any other substance
18:29that can be used negatively.
18:31Okay.
18:32Dr. Amit San,
18:33your final thought on this.
18:34What really is the way out of it?
18:36Because how do you protect young minds
18:39from online bullying as well?
18:43Yes.
18:44So I think it's a combination of things
18:45and other people in the panel
18:46have mentioned some of those already.
18:49It has to be a multimodal
18:50and a collective responsibility
18:52for all concerned.
18:54It has to be parents, school.
18:55It has to be state
18:56who are making these kind of policies about it.
18:59It has to be the tech companies
19:01who are also putting guardrails
19:02to make sure that when we have
19:04a certain boundary or a ruling,
19:06then that is followed to the T.
19:07And despite that,
19:08of course, there'll be slip-ups.
19:10And the education
19:11that Mrs. Bakshi was talking about
19:13is so important
19:13to kind of prime them,
19:15educate them
19:15and get them ready.
19:17Perhaps by the time
19:18they're 14 or 15
19:19to help them understand
19:20what social media is about,
19:21what is fake news about,
19:22what can influences do.
19:24And again,
19:25to create other spaces,
19:26just like Mrs. Bakshi was saying.
19:28So if you stop screen,
19:29what do you do instead
19:30is the question.
19:31And there are a lot of investments
19:33and thought needs to go in.
19:34So, you know,
19:35parents in schools
19:36have to think outside the box
19:37and say that
19:37in today's day and world
19:39where the screen is so attractive,
19:42what can we do
19:43or create in place of that
19:44which will make children
19:45leave their phones
19:46and their gadgets
19:47and go there
19:48to the other activities.
19:50That's the thing
19:50that we have to collectively
19:51think about.
19:52And I think
19:52if we support each other,
19:53if we shoulder up each other,
19:55then there is every possibility
19:56that we can,
19:57you know,
19:58make this a much better world
20:00for our children
20:00where they use
20:01screen gadgets
20:02for learning,
20:03for perhaps even
20:04social connections at times,
20:06but that doesn't become
20:07the central part
20:07of their lives.
20:08I think that's so important.
20:10And it has to be
20:11a collective effort,
20:12I think.
20:13All right,
20:13Sharmila Bakshi,
20:14let me give you
20:14the final thought
20:15on the show tonight
20:16because,
20:17you know,
20:17schools have
20:18great responsibilities
20:20but so do
20:21mothers and homes.
20:22So,
20:23are there honest
20:24conversations
20:24which are happening
20:25between parents
20:26and schools,
20:27principals and parents
20:29to ensure
20:30that
20:31the teens
20:33develop
20:34the healthy habits?
20:35So,
20:37I think the conversations
20:38are honest
20:39because I think
20:39as parents
20:40and as teachers,
20:41as schools,
20:42we all want the best
20:43for our children
20:44but somewhere
20:45I feel
20:46that in this
20:47present generation
20:48and I may be,
20:49you know,
20:50it may be wrong
20:51for me to say that
20:51but there is
20:52an attempt
20:53to always
20:54please our children.
20:56You know,
20:56our parents
20:57luckily were not
20:59suffering from that
20:59so they were very clear
21:01with the yes
21:02and the no
21:02and I think
21:03that is where
21:04as the new parents
21:06and the new parenting
21:07rules need to change.
21:10You know,
21:10there is
21:10for children,
21:11children I think
21:12like it black and white.
21:14They don't really
21:14see the grades
21:15so clearly.
21:17So,
21:17while creating
21:19the sense of responsibility
21:20as,
21:21you know,
21:21my panelists,
21:22one of the panelists
21:23just said that,
21:24you know,
21:24everything is available
21:25in the world
21:26but we need
21:27to make our children
21:28that much more
21:30responsible
21:30for the decisions
21:31they take
21:32for themselves
21:32and I think
21:33that is the crux
21:34of it.
21:35You know,
21:35when we realize
21:36that our children
21:36are capable
21:37of taking the decisions
21:38give it to them
21:39but before that
21:40make those restrictions
21:42and do it
21:43with a certain amount
21:45of right
21:46because you are doing
21:47the right thing
21:47for your child.
21:48Okay.
21:48And I think,
21:49you know,
21:49for our school
21:50for example
21:51we don't allow
21:51our children
21:52to bring phones
21:53to school.
21:53Okay.
21:54And when children
21:56bring phones
21:57to school
21:57they are taken
21:58back,
21:59I mean,
22:00the school keeps them
22:01until the end
22:01of the academic year.
22:02We don't give it
22:03back to the children.
22:04So that's a punishment
22:05as well.
22:05So thank you so much
22:06for joining me
22:07on this conversation,
22:09Sharmila Bakshi,
22:09Dr. Sen,
22:11Richard Tandon
22:11and Saru Mukherjee.
22:13This is our flagship series
22:15called
22:16Three Cs,
22:17Candid Constructive Conversations
22:19because we are providing
22:20a platform
22:21to ordinary Indians,
22:24you and me,
22:25to talk,
22:25listen and engage.
22:26Next time,
22:28another topic
22:29which is bothering you.
22:31There is a need
22:32for some kind
22:33of empathy
22:34as well in conversation.
22:35That's what we are highlighting.
22:36Thanks so much for watching.
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