- 22 hours ago
Veteran director and former DGA president Lesli Linka Glatter joins The Hollywood Reporter's Stacey Wilson Hunt for a wide-ranging conversation on mentorship, leadership and the future of directing. From AI and industry contraction to collaboration, representation and the power of storytelling, Glatter reflects on the responsibilities of directing in a rapidly changing business.
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00I'm Stacey Wilson-Hunt with The Hollywood Reporter, and I'm so honored to bring out Leslie Linka-Glatter.
00:05Hi, we've been chatting for like an hour and a half.
00:07Boy, that was awesome.
00:09The Duffer Brothers, and Noah, and his whole team.
00:14You are in good company today, my friend.
00:15I feel alone.
00:17Well, you deserve your own space on stage, and I'm going to talk about the big year that you've had,
00:22because you're too humble to mention these things yourself.
00:24So, may I mention some highlights?
00:25You earned your ninth Emmy nomination for directing Zero Day for Netflix.
00:30Congratulations.
00:32And you're also now contending for a DGA nomination.
00:34You filmed a new limited series for Apple TV Plus called Imperfect Women.
00:38There were plenty of imperfect men on this as well.
00:43Your 2023 HBO limited series Love and Death, which I really like, is now in the top ten on Netflix for the last two weeks.
00:49It's having a second life.
00:51That's crazy.
00:52And, I know, nothing ever goes away at this point.
00:55And, most relevant to today, you wrapped a four-year tenure as president of the DGA in October.
01:02And you are in our house, so welcome.
01:05You have spent a few hours in this building.
01:07Yes, yes.
01:08So, incredible year, and thank you for your service.
01:10I know it wasn't easy.
01:12My dad was a labor organizer for the International Ladies' Garment Union, so it was kind of in the DNA.
01:17And we have an extraordinary new board and new president, Sir Christopher Nolan.
01:22Yes, I've heard of him.
01:23Yeah.
01:23I've heard of him.
01:23So, when you reflect on your tenure, which I know is very tumultuous and very challenging, what are you proudest of having achieved?
01:31Oh, wow.
01:33That's a great question.
01:34First of all, I want to say we have an incredible board.
01:38And, you know, these are some of the busiest, hardest-working people in Hollywood, and they choose to give time and energy to give back to others.
01:49You know, and that is always inspiring to me.
01:51And that goes down to the councils and committees and the incredible leadership we have here.
01:59So, I felt honored to be serving that board.
02:02And, you know, I never want to be the smartest person in the room, but I want to be in the room with the smartest people.
02:09So, I felt like I was.
02:12And I have to say it was a hard time.
02:14But coming out of COVID, going into the strikes, the politics of the world we're living in now, where people can't even hear each other and have conversations.
02:24Of course, that was what Zero Day was about, is what is truth in a post-truth world?
02:29And how can we have a conversation if we don't agree on what is fact and what is opinion?
02:34So, those were some of the challenges, but I always felt like I had the best team to talk about that and move through it.
02:42And I think having better communication with our members, with the world.
02:47And what changes did you help to effect for directors that you can look to and think, okay, I've really helped to improve the lives of directors in terms of hiring, in terms of quality of life, in terms of opportunities?
02:58Okay, great question.
03:00And this has always been an issue for me from the time I started directing, because I didn't come, I didn't grow up in the film business.
03:07I was a modern dancer.
03:08Then I became a choreographer back in the dark ages, when the American government sponsored the arts.
03:16That's hilarious.
03:18The good old days.
03:18Yeah.
03:19So, I was based out of New York.
03:22I was based in London for three years, in Paris for three, with different companies.
03:27And then I got a grant to teach, choreograph, and perform throughout the Far East.
03:31And that changed my life.
03:33I'd go and spend three months at the Peking Opera School and three months at the Balinese Dance Academy.
03:38It was amazing.
03:40Before, I was told a story that I knew I had to pass on, and I knew it wasn't dance.
03:45But I only bring that up in the fact that dance was very female.
03:53And I never looked at being a woman in any way being negative.
03:57It just was what I was.
03:59You never felt like an outlier because...
04:00At all.
04:01...every room was filled with women.
04:02Absolutely.
04:03And men as well.
04:05But there were many more women in dance.
04:07And I think I carried that over into film when I started directing.
04:12And I looked around, especially back then, there were so few women.
04:17And I thought, this is just wrong.
04:19And people of color.
04:20Women and people of color.
04:21And I just thought, you know what?
04:23You know, I heard people say, there's only room for one of us.
04:26And it better be me.
04:28And that is a horrible way to move through the world.
04:30And the person who gets that opportunity better have a success out of the gate, or they won't get hired.
04:34Or forget it.
04:34You're going to hurt the next person.
04:36And I thought, you know what?
04:37If I can't be part of this solution, then something's wrong with me.
04:41I don't want to live that way.
04:42So ironically, I just ran into one of the women I just mentored who was on Imperfect Women.
04:52And the first woman I ever mentored out in the lobby.
04:56How nuts is that?
04:57And the second woman you had mentored on Twin Peaks in the 80s.
04:59Yes.
05:00That's incredible.
05:01Yeah.
05:01The very late 80s.
05:03Yeah.
05:03And can we give applause for David Lynch, too?
05:05David Lynch, man.
05:07Miss him so much.
05:08And we were talking backstage.
05:10David hired you on Twin Peaks.
05:12Steven Spielberg hired you on Amazing Stories.
05:14You had such great mentors so early on.
05:16So I felt it was important to pay that forward, to really be a mentor and help open the door.
05:24Because that's what we should do.
05:25The people that are in that position need to, you know, if there's not enough room at the table, build a bigger and better table.
05:34Yes.
05:35Yeah.
05:36There are so, we benefit by all kinds of stories and all kinds of storytellers.
05:42Oh, great.
05:43Thank you so much for that.
05:44So it's impossible to not address the looming absorption of Warner Brothers by a yet-to-be-finalized new owner.
05:50We don't know what that's going to turn into.
05:52We're all waiting with bated breath.
05:53And I think this is going to add another challenge to our business.
05:56And can you contextualize for us how these larger corporate mergers, absorptions, impact directors on a hiring scale?
06:06Is this removing jobs from the equation?
06:08Is it making harder for someone like you to direct a show like Zero Day?
06:12Is the pool shrinking so much to the degree where you have to be a future film director to come in and say, I'm going to direct this limited series?
06:19Can you tell us what that situation will look like?
06:22You know, I don't think anyone has a crystal ball about what it's going to look like.
06:27You know, we are doing at the Guild our due diligence, meeting with Netflix, meeting with Paramount to discuss what those ramifications are.
06:37So I can't really speak to that now because we're directors.
06:40We're going to do all our homework.
06:42I guess my question to follow up would be, what are people's biggest fears?
06:45The biggest fears are the shrinking of jobs.
06:50That, to me, I'm not going to speak for the Guild.
06:52This is me, Leslie, speaking.
06:55And less buyers because you want a robust conversation.
07:00You don't want one or two or three buyers.
07:03You want many buyers because we want to tell all kinds of stories.
07:07And, of course, you know, HBO, we don't want to lose the great storytelling buyers that are out there.
07:16And also the development process, the pitch process, which is part of what makes storytelling great.
07:20I'm worried about jobs.
07:21I mean, we had a huge shrinkage, you know, as a result of COVID and the strikes.
07:26And we're still recovering.
07:27And production is down around 40%.
07:30And that's across the U.S.
07:31And that, to me, you know, it sickens me.
07:33It hurts my heart that so many people are out of work.
07:38You know, and we're in a team sport.
07:39And we're only as good as our team.
07:41So it's hard to see.
07:43And this will not help.
07:46And what I've noticed, too, in film, and you've mostly come from a television perspective,
07:50the auteur now is really dominating the marketplace.
07:53Chris Noling, Chloe Zhao, all these people who are writing and directing their own projects,
07:57and Paul Thomas Anderson.
07:59So the director for Hire, quote, unquote, that model is really going away.
08:03I was talking to Jay Roach recently, who really doesn't write his own work,
08:05but he's overseeing the Austin Powers franchise, Meet the Parents.
08:08He is a guy who, unless he's creating a show for HBO,
08:12probably isn't going to do a lot of film directing these days.
08:15This is what he told me.
08:16I never want to approach things that way.
08:19I mean, I think you need a huge amount of tenacity.
08:22Jay is an awesome guy, an awesome director.
08:25And, you know, I, yes, I think there is still room for the,
08:31I am not a director who writes.
08:33I collaborate.
08:34I develop material, but I want someone else to write it who is better at that job than I am.
08:41You know, so, and I love that process of collaborating with writers.
08:45So I think everyone needs to know, what are the things that I'm good at?
08:49That I, so I don't want to say that's going away.
08:53I don't know that.
08:54I think that it's awesome that Paul Thomas Anderson wrote and directed that incredible film,
09:00one battle after another, and Chloe Zhao, and, you know, these are amazing, amazing films.
09:06So, and that should be applauded, the writer-director.
09:09It's fantastic.
09:11But I don't think, to all of you that are directors out there and not writers,
09:15I would continue on your path.
09:17I would not look at the, this is going to be impossible,
09:21because that is just too hard of a place to be.
09:24Agree.
09:25And there's still a huge marketplace for directors to work with writers.
09:29You still have to take the material and translate that into a real thing, you know?
09:35And that's what I feel I am good at, is taking that incredible piece of material
09:41and how do you translate that?
09:42How do you actualize that?
09:44You know, what are the themes?
09:46What is this about?
09:47What is the story?
09:48You know, so that I love doing, you know?
09:51And it's nice for a writer to have an outside POV, too.
09:54Someone who can realize their work in a way that the writer maybe didn't even anticipate.
09:58And I think if someone is a writer-director, that in a certain way,
10:02when you start directing, you have to take off that writer's hat
10:05and put on the director's hat so that you can be objective about your own material.
10:10But you know what?
10:11We're in a team sport.
10:13It's also hard to be really great at all those jobs.
10:16And I think PTA is a rare case.
10:19It's hard to imagine that he's so great at every aspect of his work.
10:22But it is really a tough balance, I think.
10:25Yeah, he's, you know, these are amazing filmmakers.
10:27Agreed.
10:28So speaking of fears, our friend AI, I say that in quotation marks.
10:34This is like all the really hard stuff.
10:36This is why you're here, Leslie?
10:37I know.
10:37Why are we talking about?
10:39I've actually never used AI in my life, and I'm proud to say.
10:41I don't use it for anything.
10:43Unless I'm going to be forced to at some point.
10:45But I do want to talk about AI in terms of its impact on the craft of directing.
10:51Is there a world in which AI can be used as a tool that isn't going to take away jobs?
10:56And I don't know enough about your process as a director, but is there a way for it to
10:59not, you know, remove the work of the UPM, remove the work of the scheduler, the script
11:04supervisor, and still employ people but make the job better?
11:08Um, that's an excellent question, and in our contract, the language is, I don't have
11:15it in front of me, so I don't want to be specific, I'm summarizing, that our DGA jobs can only
11:21be performed by a human being.
11:24Cute.
11:25And that is critically important.
11:28But AI is a tool, a tool in the hand of storytellers.
11:32It should never, ever be the creative force.
11:35So I think, you know, we use, um, effects all the time.
11:41If it's a tool in telling your story, fantastic.
11:45I don't want to put people out of work.
11:48Um, but we've been, um, tiling crowds for years.
11:54Like, if you're shooting a stadium, there's no way you can afford to fill it up with 3,000
11:59people.
11:59So we hire the people, we pay everyone.
12:03And it's, um, it's a quicker way of doing it, as long as people are paid for their work.
12:10Yeah.
12:11But I think that's really important.
12:13Just ingesting filmmakers' work, this is terrible.
12:16Yeah.
12:17Um, but I feel like we have to keep human beings, human creativity.
12:23We are the storytellers.
12:25And AI Engine is not a storyteller.
12:27Yes, agree.
12:29Thank you for saying that.
12:30And thank you for your work on behalf of that, too.
12:32I think it is really a looming fear for everyone.
12:35Oh, yes.
12:35I mean, and, and we have to be very diligent in these next negotiations, in our, in our
12:41whole world, you know, we have to be very diligent.
12:44So something I've noticed recently that has become a little irksome to me is when I'm watching
12:48something, and I think to myself, that doesn't really look like this was filmed in the United
12:52States, even though it's supposed to be Chicago.
12:54And then I'll go to IMDb, I'll scroll down, and it says Melbourne, Australia.
12:58And I'm pointing this out because all her fault, which is a great show on Peacock, very
13:03successful.
13:03I think Peacock's biggest premiere series in the last few months was shot there to accommodate
13:07Sarah Snook, who is the star and lives in Australia.
13:09Now, conversely, Robert De Niro said that you wanted to, he wanted to shoot zero day in
13:14the U.S., and it could have easily gone to Toronto.
13:17So I bring this up because it seems like the talent now have an outsized influence in determining
13:23where stories are filmed.
13:24So my question for you is, can directors push back?
13:28Do you push back?
13:29And how much leeway do you have in these conversations?
13:32I think.
13:34Let's silence phones, please.
13:35Yes.
13:35Listen, if you are shooting a story that is set in Paris, you should be shooting in Paris.
13:44You know, but if you're shooting a story that is set in Indiana, shoot that somewhere in
13:50America.
13:50At least regionally.
13:51Don't shoot that.
13:52Yeah.
13:52I mean, we need to keep as much of the business here in America.
14:00That is the main thing.
14:01So I think however we have to fight that, whoever in your team has the most juice, Robert De
14:08Niro is going to have more juice than I am.
14:11But I can tell you if it wasn't Bob, who is awesome to work with.
14:16And I was terrified when I started.
14:17I'm like, he's a legend, but he was great.
14:20It is, I can imagine being sent to Toronto to shoot that.
14:24But, you know, so let's be honest about it.
14:26And he was the one that said, we're shooting here.
14:28I just shot Imperfect Women in L.A.
14:29I was just going to say Elizabeth Moss was, he wanted to shoot in L.A.
14:32So, and I hadn't shot in L.A. in a really long time.
14:35But that is not to say you should shoot everything in America if it's a, you know, a story that
14:41should be sent in Africa or in Asia.
14:43So I think we want to, it has to service the storytelling.
14:48But with the California incentives, with the incentives in other states, we really need
14:53a federal incentive.
14:55That combined a federal incentive with state incentives would be a game changer.
15:00But I think the people that have the clout, and the director should be very vocal in that,
15:06whether you have the clout or not.
15:08But, and it's about the storytelling, and where your story, you know, should be set visually
15:16as well.
15:17And you probably have to pick your battles too, I imagine, for sure.
15:20That's a large part of your job.
15:22Yes.
15:22I mean, I was on a series for many years where we shot Homeland.
15:28We've heard of Homeland, Leslie.
15:30Yes, we've got it.
15:31It was an awesome show to work on.
15:33We had the most incredible team.
15:35And we would go around the world with 15 heads of department, and shoot, every year was either
15:42a different city or a different country, and reset the show every year.
15:47And that's on Netflix now.
15:49Oh my God.
15:50You know, I'm getting calls about love and death.
15:52Like, I just saw your new show.
15:54That was five years ago.
15:56But great.
15:57You'll take it.
15:58You'll take it.
15:58So that's great that it's out there again.
16:01That's huge.
16:01But, you know, that was a big deal then, you know, to go...
16:07And Homeland was very singular, and likely a show that wouldn't, if it took place now,
16:12wouldn't be shot in the same way, I have a feeling, just because of the scale.
16:14I don't know about that.
16:16Well, I'm going to ask you a question about that in a moment, so let's put a pin in that.
16:19In my research about the DGA, I was struck to find out that 40% of DGA members are UPMs,
16:26ADs, second ADs, associate directors, and stage managers.
16:29So this isn't just the person calling action and calling cut.
16:32Absolutely.
16:33And remember, we have news directors, sports directors, Academy Award, you know,
16:39variety shows.
16:41So we represent a huge amount of people.
16:45What would you want people to better understand about how those jobs are being impacted right now?
16:49Because, of course, when production goes away, it's not just directors, actors, producers.
16:53It's the, you know, below the line folks.
16:56It's the support staff.
16:57What can we do to support them now?
16:59Well, we have to keep production in America.
17:02I mean, that, you know, as everything we're doing, I mean, the DGA and the other units,
17:08we all joined together to keep the, for the California State and Senate.
17:14Rebecca Ryan, who's our second here at the DGA, was leading that charge.
17:19And everyone joined on together.
17:22And I think unity together with our sister guilds makes a huge difference.
17:27And I think, you know, we need, we really need to keep work in America, in California.
17:33I mean, recovering from the fires, all of that.
17:36And so, yes, we represent the whole directorial team.
17:40And if the work isn't here, they're not working.
17:44And so it's even more critical.
17:46And, you know, yes, you can take your AD with you.
17:50You can't usually take your whole team.
17:52So the more we keep work in America, and then, you know, in some cases, the, I mean, the director
17:58probably has to fight for that, too.
18:01You know, and which one should do.
18:04One battle after another, you might say.
18:05One battle after another, yeah.
18:06So we talked about your early mentors, Steven Spielberg, David Lynch, and also William Friedkin,
18:11the great departed William Friedkin.
18:13That, that, I choreographed to live and die in L.A.
18:17And that paid for my first film.
18:17We could be here 10 hours, Leslie, with all of these jobs that you've had.
18:20But it's so, it's so striking to me that you were uplifted so much by these male directors,
18:25these hugely cinematic, giant figures of cinema.
18:28Yes.
18:29And it made me wonder, what is the state of mentorship today when people are afraid for their
18:33own livelihoods?
18:34Are they less likely to uplift others?
18:35I think there's more mentorship.
18:37And I have to say, applause to the incredible men that mentor women and people of color.
18:44Yes.
18:44So, I mean, they, we want all kinds of stories.
18:48And they were incredible mentors.
18:50You know, I mean, you know, what can you say?
18:53I feel blessed to have watched these incredible directors, you know, and it absolutely colored
19:00how I approach many things.
19:02And we can't, I think your larger point is, we can't just have women helping women.
19:05No.
19:05There just has to be a craft that's being passed down.
19:08And I mentor men.
19:08It's not like, oh, you know.
19:11I think the important thing, when I started, there was not a girls club.
19:16And now there is.
19:17And that is awesome.
19:19And women help other women all the time.
19:22And in TV, now I don't want to, you know, again, I wasn't prepared to talk about all DGA
19:27issues on this.
19:29I'm no longer president.
19:30But the TV statistics, not the same in feature films, so don't quote me because I don't have
19:37any actual numbers in front of me.
19:39It's around 40% are women and people of color in TV.
19:4337, 40%.
19:45That's changed a lot since you started.
19:46Oh, my God.
19:47Huge.
19:47And we have a TV series, episodic dinner, so people can all meet each other and have
19:55conversations because, you know, when you're on the set, you're the only director.
19:58So it's great to get everyone together and have those kind of creative conversations.
20:02And we have a feature film director's night.
20:06And I remember this year walking into the TV director's night, and there were so many
20:12women and people of color and white men, Caucasian men.
20:16It was awesome.
20:17It was such a...
20:18It looked like what the world looks like.
20:19It looked like the world.
20:20Right.
20:20And that, to me, is the positive of how things have changed.
20:24That is not the case in feature films.
20:26Very, very different world.
20:27So there's still plenty of work.
20:28We don't want to slide back, but in any way.
20:31So one has to be vigilant.
20:33But, you know, there have definitely been improvements.
20:37And, you know, all of you who are directors or ADs mentor your sister or brother.
20:44You know, that's how...
20:45And, you know, it makes me happy because I'll probably have another job because all those
20:50people are working.
20:52Exactly.
20:53I'm joking.
20:54But, you know, it's like it's an important thing to do.
20:57I agree.
20:58So your successor is a young upstart guy named Christopher Nolan, who's going to be taking
21:03over for you at the DGA.
21:04He is already.
21:05He is awesome.
21:06He has a lot of promise, this guy.
21:07Oh, big time.
21:09What would be your advice to him about time management?
21:11Because you arrived here today.
21:13I think...
21:13And you said, normally, I have a board meeting on Saturdays.
21:16It sounds like...
21:17No, no, no.
21:17Normally, that's not the case.
21:18That's not the case.
21:18We did.
21:19We had a short board meeting today.
21:23But board meetings are much longer.
21:26But I don't think Chris needs any help with any of this.
21:30I think he's got it dialed in.
21:32And he is absolutely awesome.
21:35And I think the perfect person to be leading the DGA right now.
21:39What do you think his first focus should be in the coming year, not based on your preference,
21:44but just in terms of the urgency facing directors just in the next six months?
21:47What do you think his first focus should be?
21:49Oh, I don't want to give him...
21:51I'm not going to...
21:51I can't really answer that.
21:53Give him an assignment.
21:54I think he is so...
21:57You know, he's an awesome person.
21:59He's been on the board for years.
22:01He's been an active participant on the board for, I don't know, it's probably somewhere around 12 years.
22:07And I think the fact that he is such an extraordinary feature film director,
22:13it really says how important feature films are.
22:15where the theatrical feature film is, and how important it is to keep films in theaters.
22:22And the purity of his work.
22:23Oppenheimer was handmade.
22:24There were no special effects in that movie.
22:26He really does represent the craftsmanship, which I think is so important.
22:30So important.
22:30And, you know, again, we have an incredible board and people do rise up.
22:34Listen, he's doing a huge movie right now.
22:37So the balancing act of that, you know, and for kids, you know, he's awesome.
22:42Incredible.
22:43He's awesome.
22:43He's the only person I can think of who's equipped to follow you, Leslie.
22:47Oh, God.
22:48You know, no, I think we are blessed to have the leadership we have in this guild.
22:53Agreed.
22:54And my closing question for Leslie, because we can't help but talk about reboots.
22:58And you told me that you had breakfast with Howard Gordon this morning, the EP of Homeland.
23:04Is there a hope of a Homeland reboot?
23:06Is there a world in which you would want to continue telling this story?
23:09Because as we know, no show ever really dies.
23:11They keep coming back for more.
23:12Well, I can tell you over our acai bowl, we did not talk about that.
23:18But Howard and Alex, who created the show, are dear friends and incredible storytellers and partners in crime.
23:28And I think what was exciting about Homeland is that every year, myself, the writers, Claire Danes and Mandy Patinkin would go to D.C.
23:38and meet with the heads of the CIA, NSA, DNI, State Department, investigative journalists.
23:45We're all imagining what that would be like now.
23:46Yeah.
23:48And basically, Alex and Howard would ask them, what keeps you up at night?
23:53What are your deepest fears for America and the world?
23:56And that was a really risky, amazing way to be dealing with a show, a series on TV.
24:03And we never wanted to show anyone in a black hat or a white hat, but ask the question.
24:09And my favorite Homeland scenes were people on totally opposing sides with opposing views, and they were both right.
24:18So that, it was an extraordinary show to be part of.
24:21But I just want to say to everyone out there who's a director or works on a director's team, you know, we all need this incredible balance of opposites to do the jobs we do.
24:31You need, I don't know, tenacity, but you have to remember the joy.
24:35You know, you need incredible strength, but you also need compassion.
24:40All these opposites to do the jobs we do, you know, and which I love about what we do.
24:47You know, you have to be a leader, but you have to be a listener.
24:51You know, and there's a great Truffaut quote.
24:53I hope I don't get it wrong because I don't have it on me.
24:56None of us will know if you do get it wrong, so it's fine.
24:57But the secret, it's, and I'm paraphrasing, so please no one yell at me.
25:03The secret of great directing is knowing exactly what you want, but having no ego in giving it up the second anyone has a better idea.
25:14That is brilliant advice from a brilliant man.
25:17Yeah, from a brilliant man.
25:19Thank you so much for your time, Leslie, and all your service.
25:21We really appreciate it.
25:22Thank you, everyone.
25:23Keep fighting the good fight.
25:26See you guys after the break.
25:27Thank you so much.
Be the first to comment