00:00It's been three years since the Qatar corruption scandal first rocked the European Parliament.
00:05Explosive allegations and a spectacular police operation.
00:10At the time, Belgian authorities claimed that their countries from Qatar to Morocco
00:14had paid hundreds of thousands of euros to sway and influence decision-making
00:20at the core of European democracy.
00:22The face of the scandal, Eva Kiley, young, glamorous,
00:26and a former vice president of the European Parliament.
00:30Three years later, she tells Euronews she wants to see justice for herself.
00:35The Belgian's prosecutor's office did not respond to a request for comment made by Euronews.
00:40Well, Eva Kiley, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews for this interview.
00:46It's been three years. You say for you it's been three very long years.
00:50And now you want to go public and you want to put it all out in the open
00:54and you say you claim and you want justice, but justice from who?
01:00That's a good question. I think justice should come based on facts.
01:06And now we have enough facts to understand that this was a baseless case.
01:11Optics were used for justice.
01:14And after three years, I think we have now the clarity to see what actually happened.
01:18OK, so what actually happened?
01:21Because, of course, our viewers remember the scandal.
01:25They remember the investigation.
01:28And they remember that Belgian authorities claimed that third countries from Qatar to Morocco
01:32paid cash to influence decision making and to sway you, essentially.
01:38So, again, what actually happened?
01:41And when you say you want to see justice,
01:44is this justice from the Belgian authorities that you're seeking?
01:48So, let's establish the facts.
01:50There were evidence from an investigation of the secret services of Belgium.
01:55And on the wiretops, we can see that there were private funds, not public,
02:01private funds for the president of an NGO, Panseri,
02:06that he used his assistance.
02:07He asked them to help him receive it until he declared it.
02:11This is corroborated by wiretops, by notes, and by testimonies.
02:17Until coercion methods happened and things started to change.
02:21And, of course, that refers to the moment that,
02:26well, you went very public because there was a picture that was printed.
02:31It went viral.
02:32It went global.
02:34There was a piece of luggage.
02:35The Belgian federal police said that that was evidence of cash
02:40that was stored in your property, and this luggage was full of cash.
02:45So, we've seen the picture.
02:47Three years later, you say that this is now set up.
02:50So, tell us, then, what was really in that luggage?
02:53Well, we have, again, we have the evidence and the wiretops.
02:57So, it's about facts, not perception, not optics.
03:01These were private funds that we hear on the wiretops that he wanted to receive it for his work.
03:07The photos were staged as illegal, as illegal funds, to create presumption of guilt.
03:14And now we have more evidence that the prosecutor of Belgium pre-orchestrated,
03:21not just the leaks, but the story.
03:23So, the target was chosen, the script was pre-written, and the optics replaced the evidence.
03:31Look, that's a very important point, and I want to focus on the idea of the leaks.
03:35Because leaks are, they happen, they are somewhat normal for things to leak in an investigation to the press.
03:43What is different, however, is to leak information to incriminate a person without the full evidence.
03:49So, my question is, where are you framed?
03:54Well, first, we were arrested, accused, punished by detention, based on a hypothesis.
04:01Also, the facts, if the facts matter, were clear that they were not related to corruption.
04:07And now we have the messages between the prosecutor, journalists, and the police,
04:13preparing articles before the investigation even started,
04:17deciding the titles and then trying to fit everything with twisted leaks on the press,
04:23trying to put coercive methods and intimidation to fit the whole case into the headlines.
04:32This is not leaks, this is pre-orchestration.
04:34It's a narrative that was written instead of evidence.
04:38But if all of this was set up and you say this was orchestration
04:42and leaks were put out to incriminate your purpose, what was the motivation?
04:48This is a question that many of our viewers wonder, that we still wonder about.
04:54What was the motivation?
04:55Why you in particular?
04:57Well, this is a very good question to ask.
05:00And this would require a trial to get the truth out.
05:03What I can tell you is that there was a public trial, there was a popularity contest, intimidation.
05:09They used my daughter and other families to change testimonies and make accusations.
05:15Why?
05:15The law is not there.
05:17So the violation of the secrecy and the violation of presumption of innocence is not to protect the guilty,
05:23is to protect the innocent from public courts and for manipulation by media.
05:29So facts matter and the justice was reversed in this case.
05:35I can just tell you that today we have a Belgian gate where the judge resigned, the prosecutor resigned,
05:42the investigator admitted that they were based the case on lies.
05:47So it was lies of coercion.
05:50And the anti-corruption director is now criminally charged.
05:54Again, these were serious allegations, especially those aimed at the Belgian authorities.
05:57You say this is a Belgian gate.
06:01What does that mean?
06:02What does that mean specifically?
06:04Well, that means that it's not safe for diplomacy or democracy when based on the hypothesis against the evidence.
06:12People's lives are destroyed.
06:14Families are used.
06:16Even babies.
06:17And then we have everybody resigning.
06:20We have the fact.
06:20It's not my opinion.
06:22What I'm telling you, it's based on facts.
06:25So I think when you stage photos, when you write the script before the case opens,
06:31everybody can understand that being a politician in the European Union,
06:36it seems that you can be targeted by doing your work.
06:41Because I was having an official mandate documented by the president of the parliament and by Borel,
06:48the high representative of the commission, to beat bridges with the Gulf countries.
06:52Okay.
06:53But I want to go back to the idea of the Belgian gate,
06:55because what you say and what you allude is that ultimately this is a country where authorities frame people,
07:06where they plant evidence, where they use methods that are borderline on the legality.
07:13Would you say that Belgium is in a way operating like a police state?
07:18Is that what you're saying?
07:19Well, we saw what happened with Mogherini.
07:21He was accused and arrested before there were evidence.
07:26And now we have a judge, Anzio, who opened a criminal case against the anti-corruption director
07:33and is trying to establish what actually really happened against the methods of the Belgians.
07:39This happened in Belgium.
07:40Italy also dismissed the case for corruption and opened a criminal investigation against the witness protected by Belgium for lying.
07:51So I can just talk with facts and everybody can make like their own conclusions.
07:55I don't need to say what it was, but I can tell you what are the facts.
07:58And still you say what happened was three years ago, the European Parliament, just to give you an example,
08:07they decided to make you persona non grata.
08:14You were stripped of your job as vice president of the European Parliament.
08:18Your immunity also was stripped.
08:21And at the time, the head of the European Parliament said that she was going to clean up the institution
08:28and you became the sort of persona non grata in the institution.
08:32Have you had any contact with the head of the European Parliament since?
08:37And what do you make of that reaction?
08:40Of course.
08:40And I asked for a public hearing.
08:43I asked for any hearing to present the evidence and it was denied.
08:47I even asked a public court hearing to present all the facts.
08:53Whoever wants transparency, if they are honest, they wouldn't deny a public hearing.
08:57And she denied the public hearing.
08:59The prosecutor denied the public hearing.
09:01Whoever denies definitely is not an innocent one.
09:04Three years later, do you feel betrayed by the president of the Parliament,
09:08by Roberta Metzula and your own colleagues in the Parliament?
09:10Well, I think personally, I'm expecting justice to be given through presenting all the elements at court
09:22and to have a fair process.
09:25The process was totally illegal.
09:27So now I'm waiting to understand why they use such methods.
09:30But it's not personal for me, the apology.
09:33It's to the citizens for losing trust to the system because it was presented as corruption.
09:40And we see that in the end, it was private funds for actually an NGO that was doing a good mission,
09:46helping people in Afghanistan, in Sudan.
09:48So we saw how you can reverse justice for political ambition, for geopolitical games,
09:55and people become victims of this process.
09:58Obviously, we saw a spectacular raid when it comes to Federica Mogherini.
10:03She's a former representative for the European Union.
10:07Were you surprised in any way to see another round of arrests like this?
10:13Again, punished without evidence.
10:16Optics replace justice and public courts decide about somebody if he's innocent or not
10:21before fact, only with the titles.
10:24So innocence is destroyed in like a popularity contest because then the parliament and everybody,
10:30they try to side with whatever is convenient.
10:34So it's easy to attack the South.
10:36It's easy to attack South countries, Arab countries, and create a narrative and a presumption
10:42that is the opposite of what the facts have been saying.
10:46So to me, it's very worrying for democracy.
10:50And the reason I'm speaking out, even though it causes trouble to me and my family, and even
10:58to my case, it's because this should not happen to anyone.
11:02And politicians should not be afraid to work on the European institutions.
11:08They should not feel that the system can target and attack anyone.
11:12So I do hope that this would be like a lesson.
11:16And what happened to Mogherini recently, or more ready today, a selective political prosecution,
11:23this would stop happening after this case is over.
11:26Well, thank you very much for joining us, Eva Kaili.
11:31And in the end, it will be the facts and the evidence that will speak.
11:35This case is still not set for trial, but there's a question as to whether it will make it to trial.
11:40But at some point, if it does, of course, the justice and the law is based on facts.
11:44And ultimately, it will be the facts that will speak for both sides.
11:49Thank you very much.
11:50Thank you, Maria, so much.
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