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00:12Right, Holly, she'll start again.
00:15From the beginning.
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00:25Ah, me mates, there's no one standing at the window waiting to kick off.
00:28If you like it so much, when are you going to live there then?
00:31I don't like it!
00:32When are you going to let me have sex with you?
00:34No.
00:35Don't be.
00:36Don't let them kiss you.
00:37Get off me!
00:38I don't take my top off or nothing.
00:40You're not safe.
00:43He's going to kill you.
00:45Tell me everything you want the police to know.
00:51Can I call?
00:53I don't know what they're going to do to us.
00:55Who?
00:56The men.
00:58They do nothing to us.
01:00You come back home with us and we'll sort this.
01:02I promise you.
01:03We will sort it.
01:05You were saying about Tarek and Amber.
01:20Tarek started taking his places.
01:25He started picking us up and Amber thought that he was a boyfriend.
01:34So what did you think was going on when he picked you up?
01:39I didn't actually know he was taking us to have sex.
01:46I don't know if she did but...
01:50So what did you think was going to happen?
01:52I don't know.
01:53What do you want?
01:54Is Amber Bowen at this address?
01:55Amber!
01:56What do you want?
01:57Is Amber Bowen at this address?
01:58Amber!
01:59What do you want it for?
02:00Amber!
02:01What do you want it for?
02:02Amber!
02:03What do you want it for?
02:05Hmm?
02:06Amber Bowen?
02:07Yeah?
02:08We're arresting you on suspicion of inciting girls for prostitution.
02:09Doing what?
02:10I don't know.
02:11I don't know.
02:12I don't know.
02:13I don't know.
02:14I don't know.
02:15I don't know.
02:16I don't know.
02:17I don't know.
02:18I don't know.
02:19I don't know.
02:20I don't know.
02:21I don't know.
02:22I don't know.
02:23I don't know.
02:24I don't know.
02:25What do you want it for?
02:26Hmm?
02:27Amber Bowen?
02:28Yeah?
02:29We're arresting you on suspicion of inciting girls for prostitution.
02:33Doing what?
02:38She's 15.
02:3915 in a cell.
02:40She's being interviewed now.
02:41What for?
02:42What for?
02:43She's got a solicitor with her.
02:44Yeah, I'm a mum.
02:46I should be in there with her.
02:47Look, I know we fucking rights.
02:48Look, you can either wait here or we'll call you when it's concluded.
02:51She's 15!
03:04Are you arranging for girls to have sex with men?
03:08No comment.
03:12You taking money while other girls have sex with men?
03:15No comment.
03:16Are you a madam, Amber?
03:17No comment.
03:18Are you a madam, Amber?
03:20No comment.
03:21No comment.
03:22Your mum's outside.
03:23Having a fag.
03:24What are you doing?
03:25What're you doing?
03:26No comment.
03:33Your mum's outside, having a fag.
03:40What have you done?
03:45Good one, tell me.
03:50What have you done?
03:54Good one, tell me.
03:57Is Ruby doing it?
03:59Whatever it is, is Ruby doing it?
04:01I've got to go.
04:02Where are you going?
04:05Where are you going?
04:20Ruby?
04:35What?
04:36What are you doing?
04:37Where do you go when you're out with them packies?
04:40What do you do?
04:42Erm...
04:45I sit on my settee.
04:49They give me money for sitting on my settee.
05:05Ruby is pregnant.
05:11We'll need more tests to check for STIs.
05:16Are you going to bash me face in?
05:19No, Ruby.
05:21No.
05:22Why would you say that?
05:23Because that's what you always said.
05:25Me or Amber got pregnant before we were 16.
05:28Come here.
05:36Do you know who got you pregnant?
05:38Yeah.
05:39Billy.
05:40What's he called?
05:42Billy.
05:43Billy what?
05:44Just Billy.
05:46Do you know where he lives?
05:50I've a lot of grange.
05:54Right.
05:55Come on.
05:56Why?
05:57I don't want him to get into trouble.
05:59It's all right.
06:01You just pointed at his house.
06:18Is that his taxi?
06:20Yeah.
06:21And is that his house?
06:23Yeah.
06:24Can we go now?
06:26Can we go now?
06:48See you.
06:49Hi.
06:50Hello, Rochdale Police.
07:06Thirteen-year-old on the Child Protection Register.
07:09Got a statement of learning needs.
07:12Pregnant by a mid-thirties man with a family of his own.
07:15I can tell you his name, his address, his license plate.
07:20She's getting a termination tomorrow at Millfield Road Clinic.
07:25Three o'clock.
07:26Hello.
07:27Ruby Bowen?
07:28Ruby's frightened of needles.
07:29She'll be fine.
07:30Don't worry.
07:31Don't worry.
07:32Don't worry.
07:33Don't worry.
07:34Don't worry.
07:36Do we have any more questions?
07:38Don't worry.
07:39Don't worry.
07:40No.
07:41Hello?
07:42Ruby Bowen?
07:43Ruby's frightened of needles.
07:44She'll be fine.
07:46Don't worry.
07:48Don't worry.
07:50Don't worry.
07:51Don't worry.
07:52I'm sorry, don't worry.
07:54Don't worry.
07:55Let's go.
08:25He was doing appeasement.
08:34And what's that then?
08:35Like, he was just saying yeah to what Hitler wanted, just to, like, keep the peace.
08:41Very good.
08:42Where was he from?
08:44The Conservatives.
08:45What part of the world?
08:47Well, that's not in it.
08:48Is it?
08:49It's a bonus question.
08:51Dad, it's GCSEs, not a pub quiz.
08:54Oh, that smartass.
08:55How many GCSEs have you got?
08:57Only of you.
08:58No comment.
08:59Well, what about what's in there?
09:01Did I do all right?
09:02All right.
09:03You got every one.
09:04And for that, Paxo is gonna make you a cup of tea.
09:09One for me as well, please.
09:11Please.
09:27What's up, Paxo?
09:28What's up, Paxo?
09:31Holly.
09:32I've got yours.
09:33Girls, can we have a minute, please?
09:42Did I pass any?
09:44You passed them all.
09:48Everyone.
09:49You can do A-levels, Holly.
09:51You can go to university.
09:54You can do whatever you want.
09:56Ollie will be back soon.
10:00Don't you want to know how she got on?
10:02Of course I do.
10:02I'm gonna go and meet her halfway.
10:03All right.
10:33Tell us.
10:53Will you just tell us?
10:54Where's Dad?
11:00Passed them all.
11:01Every single one.
11:02That's fantastic, love.
11:06Dad.
11:07What's wrong?
11:17Your case has been dropped.
11:20There's gonna be no charges.
11:22Against anyone.
11:25Why?
11:27Because there's an unrealistic prospect of conviction.
11:30His DNA's all over your knickers.
11:31Jim!
11:32And there's an unrealistic prospect of conviction.
11:39Well, what about all the interviews I did and picking them out of a line-up?
11:44It wasn't the police, Ollie.
11:45It was CPS.
11:47Why?
11:49I told the truth.
11:51I told them everything.
11:53I know.
11:53They didn't think a jury would believe you.
11:56Yeah.
11:56I know.
11:58I know.
11:59I know.
12:00Let's go.
12:30Thanks very much, but no thanks.
12:37You don't even know what I'm going to ask you yet.
12:39I know you've got an operation running into sex abuse by Asian gangs.
12:43What else have you heard?
12:44That there's been a fetus found in a freezer belonging to a 13-year-old girl.
12:50You've had a 15-year-old locked in a cell for being a madam.
12:54All sorts.
12:56It's not good.
12:58Ah, but we've a chance now, to put it right.
13:00We can get convictions here, Maggie, if we can re-engage the girls.
13:04I've been here before, Sandy.
13:062004, 2005, same story, but Manchester, not Rochdale.
13:12I spent over a year getting two 14-year-old girls to spill their guts to me about what had been done to them,
13:18only for the whole thing to just fade away.
13:20Maggie, you can trust me when I tell you there's a fair wind behind this one.
13:23You can have a Force 9 gale, but that won't compel a vulnerable kid into a witness box.
13:28I know that.
13:30Which is why I need you.
13:32Come on, Maggie.
13:33Let me just show you the file.
13:40File?
13:41All right.
13:43Files.
13:45Amber and Ruby Bowen.
13:47Amber of the jail cell.
13:49Ruby of the fetus.
13:51They're key to this and we need them.
13:53Both of them.
13:54They're both victims of the same group of men.
13:57But Amber was arrested.
14:00She was, yeah.
14:02Other kids thought she was in control.
14:03Maybe she even thought she was in control, but of course she wasn't.
14:06The men were.
14:07She was never charged.
14:10And Ruby?
14:11Well, we've got forensics with the fetus that leads us right to the perpetrator.
14:17If we can get her consent for us having it in the first place.
14:21So she doesn't know that we have it or that it was ever taken?
14:25I'm not going to lie to you, Maggie.
14:27It's a mess.
14:29Rochdale has had trouble with on-street grooming going way back.
14:32And even when they had a cracking case, a kid called Holly Winshaw, they never got it to trial.
14:37Now the IPCC are investigating their failings.
14:40How many victims?
14:4247.
14:43They're drowning in it.
14:45My priority is to reopen every one of these cases and re-engage the girls.
14:55Adil Khan, Shabir Ahmed, Abdul Aziz, Kabir Hassan, Mohammed Sajid, Mohammed Amin, Abdul Rauf, Abdul Qayum, Hamid Safi, and Ymir.
15:08We don't need to bother about him, because he's in jail already.
15:10What for, sir?
15:11Child abuse charges going back to the 1980s.
15:14He was a fugitive from the law when he did what he did to these girls.
15:18He got 15 years, so he's out of the way.
15:21I want the rest of these individuals arrested.
15:25I want them taken to separate police stations to be interviewed, and I want their houses searched.
15:31Press no, we've an operation running.
15:33They've agreed to a news embargo till the new year.
15:36All right.
15:37If your role is with victims, then I want you planning your approach with Peter Boyd, who's a specialist interview advisor.
15:45I know Mr. Guthrie will have belaboured the point, but I am going to hammer it home some more.
15:51This entire operation stands and falls on us being able to re-engage these girls.
15:58They were children.
15:59They were raped and abused, and when they went to the police, nothing was done about it.
16:03What this investigation needs, more than anything, is open minds.
16:07I want you going out there thinking of these girls as your own kids or grandkids,
16:11because if it was your own, you'd be torn to pieces.
16:19Why?
16:22Why now?
16:22Mr. Winshaw, is Holly at home?
16:24She's in a mother and baby hostel.
16:27I've got three other kids in there, and I can't have Holly ripping a hole in the middle of this house.
16:34And do you know I blame for that?
16:36Whose fault it is that she's in pieces and seems determined to stay that way?
16:40You.
16:41I'm Maggie Oliver. I'm a detective with the Greater Manchester Police.
16:54This is Detective John Duff.
16:56I'd like to talk to you and the girls.
16:57They're not here.
16:58Who is it?
17:00One.
17:02Who are you? What are you saying they've done?
17:04We're not saying they've done anything. Far from it. We need their help.
17:07We're here because they were both victims of offences.
17:10You're just fucking answering me when I ask you. Who the fuck are they?
17:13Stay in the house!
17:15For fuck's sake! What are you doing?
17:17Get it!
17:20Greater Manchester Police are reopening an investigation into what went on.
17:24I've come to ask if they'd be prepared to make statements.
17:26What do you think you're doing coming to my door now?
17:28I understand you weren't expecting us, but we...
17:30Expecting you?
17:31Why would I be expecting you?
17:33You knew what was going on.
17:35And what did you do?
17:37Arrest me daughter for being a pimp.
17:39No one bothered.
17:41Except that...
17:41Sarah at Sexual Help.
17:44None of you.
17:45We want nothing to do with any of you.
17:50So don't come near because we are giving you nothing!
17:55What are you doing?
17:57What are you doing?
17:58I'm not doing nothing!
17:59Why are you shouting at me?
18:00I'm not shouting at you!
18:01Just fuck off! Fuck off!
18:03Fuck off!
18:04I'm a detective with the Greater Manchester Police.
18:30Okay.
18:31GMP's running an operation, Operation Span,
18:35to put right what went wrong at Rochdale
18:37in relation to the grooming of young girls.
18:40And I understand that you've made several referrals to the police
18:43in relation to two girls in particular,
18:47Amber and Ruby Bowen.
18:49So I'm here in the hope that you might have some relevant intelligence
18:54in relation to them.
19:01I've got the car, so if there are any files, I can take them now.
19:14Fuck off.
19:18No, really.
19:19I mean it.
19:22Fuck off.
19:26I've been in here, sat in here, for years.
19:31And what you're demanding of me now,
19:33I couldn't pay you lot to look at for years.
19:37And what, you're swanning here off the street
19:40with your Prada rambag telling me to hand it over
19:43like you're asking to check my gas meter.
19:45I understand that you...
19:46Oh, no, you don't.
19:49You really, really don't.
19:52What those girls have been telling me for years,
19:56I have been powerless to do anything about
19:58because you lot didn't want to know.
20:01Well, we want to know now.
20:02This is the biggest operation GMP's running.
20:04And what do you think's been happening to those girls in the meantime?
20:08Raped, beaten, not believed.
20:11Raped, beaten, not believed.
20:13What do you think that does to a kid?
20:19Do you think they're sitting around waiting to do the civic duty
20:21because you lot have got your act together?
20:25If you want documents off me,
20:28make an application, fill out the form,
20:30do whatever official thing it is you coppers have to do
20:33when you're after evidence.
20:35But don't rock up here after all these years
20:38acting like you're the saviour of the family.
20:40Here's your little bunny.
21:05Here you go.
21:08Here he is.
21:13Holly,
21:14when you went to the police about Tarek
21:16and Daddy and those other men,
21:19the CPS made a decision not to prosecute.
21:22But now there's a new team of police
21:24working on the kind of crime you were a victim of.
21:26We want to reopen your case and bring these men to trial.
21:32So you want me to help you?
21:34Yeah, we do.
21:37When you never help me.
21:41Why would I do that?
21:45Because you come here and you sit being nice to me baby.
21:48Why don't you try taking me to McDonald's?
21:53Or is it just social workers who do that?
21:57It's pathetic.
21:58I just want to talk to you, Holly.
22:00The police just want to talk to you.
22:02I've talked to them.
22:05I've talked to them.
22:07And talked to them.
22:08And talked to them.
22:09And talked to them.
22:10And then they turn around and call me a liar.
22:14Are you Margaret Oliver?
22:23I am, yeah.
22:27From Sarah Robotham,
22:30brought in a sexual life.
22:32There's two more down the hall.
22:44There aren't 47 girls.
22:50There's hundreds of them.
22:52She's got names, addresses,
22:55wrench plates,
22:57multiple girls reporting the same perpetrators.
22:59Why the hell didn't Rochdale's CID have these files?
23:02Because they didn't want them.
23:03What do you mean they didn't want them?
23:04It's bloody evidence.
23:06Not according to them.
23:07Sexual health made hundreds of referrals to the police
23:10and they got the same response every time.
23:12Oh, this isn't evidence, Sarah.
23:14It's just intelligence
23:16and it's not something for us to do anything about.
23:20No wonder she wiped the floor with me.
23:26Operation Stable Door, this.
23:28Girls just will not talk to us.
23:31We've underestimated how fragile they are
23:33and the level of anger and betrayal
23:35they feel towards the police.
23:36Well, because this is a live investigation
23:44for Greater Manchester Police,
23:46detectives are keeping their cards
23:47pretty close to their chests.
23:49But what we do know is that nine arrests
23:51were made here in Rochdale just before Christmas
23:54over allegations concerning the sexual exploitation
23:57of teenage girls.
23:59Now, we understand that all the men are Asian
24:01and that all the girls involved are white.
24:04The arrests were made on suspicion
24:06of allowing premises to be used for prostitution,
24:09of inciting child prostitution,
24:11suspicion of rape and sexual activity with a child.
24:15And the nine men have been released on bail
24:17while police investigate the allegations.
24:20Hannah, am I right in thinking
24:21that these are not new allegations?
24:23Well, these allegations were made
24:25to Rochdale Police in 2008.
24:27However, the case was dropped
24:29and none of the complaints against these men
24:31ever made it to trial.
24:32Now, this is something Greater Manchester Police
24:34is going to have to grapple with
24:35as the police's own watchdog,
24:37the Independent Police Complaints Commission,
24:40has been brought in to look at what happened.
24:42It's early days yet for that inquiry,
24:45but we do know there are concerns
24:46within Greater Manchester Police
24:48about the standard and the quality
24:50of the earlier investigation.
24:57What do you think you're going to find?
25:01I'm not a total fucking moron.
25:03You know the score, Holly.
25:05So Bryce is a condition of your keeping Ella.
25:08That's why we do these spot checks.
25:10I could be arse-old right now
25:11and you lot wouldn't have a clue.
25:14Are you?
25:15Of course I'm fucking not.
25:20You're not helping yourself.
25:23Or her.
25:23You're a pointless fucking bitch.
25:25Do you know that?
25:32Hey.
25:33Dad.
25:36This is Emily Stone from the CPS.
25:38She'll be working alongside us
25:39at Span from here on in.
25:41There's a couple of cases
25:42where the evidence is already there.
25:45Holly Winshaw, Ruby Bowen, Amber Bowen.
25:49They've told us where to go, I know that,
25:50but we need to approach them again.
25:52I just don't think a family like the Bowens
25:54would cooperate with us
25:55in a month of Sundays.
25:57What's the obstacle?
25:57It's that.
26:00It's that, John.
26:01It's that attitude.
26:02A family like that.
26:04That's the obstacle.
26:07Lorna can smell that office
26:08as soon as look at us
26:09because everyone in authority
26:10treats her like that.
26:12It's not brain surgery, this.
26:15We treat them as human beings
26:17and we say we're sorry.
26:22Hello?
26:23Oh, hi, Lorna.
26:25Who is this?
26:26It's Maggie Oliver.
26:28We met a couple of weeks ago
26:29when I came round to your house
26:30to talk to you about the girls.
26:32Hello?
26:33Can you hear me?
26:35What do you want?
26:36Look, I told you.
26:37Yeah, I know you did
26:39and I'm not surprised
26:40because if I were you
26:41and a copper came round to my door
26:42I'd want to hose them
26:43off the pavement
26:44but I'd like another chance
26:47to talk to you.
26:49What happened to your girls
26:51is a disgrace.
26:52What we let happen
26:54but we've got a chance
26:56to put it right.
26:59Ring me next week.
27:00Who's ringing you next week?
27:05It's just someone from housing.
27:11And leading the Times
27:13is a culture of silence
27:14that has facilitated
27:15the sexual exploitation
27:17of hundreds of young British girls
27:18by criminal pimping gangs
27:20as exposed by the paper today.
27:22A pattern of abuse
27:23across the North and Midlanders.
27:24The Times is pursuing
27:25a revelation in the paper
27:28that there is
27:29sexual exploitation
27:30of hundreds of young girls.
27:31The Times newspaper
27:32identified 17 prosecutions
27:34of street grooming
27:35over the past 14 years
27:37and it said
27:37of the 56 convicted
27:39in those cases
27:4053 were Asian.
27:46Max, Max, a word.
27:52You've seen the papers
27:53it's all eyes on us.
27:56Times is saying
27:56the failures in Rochdale
27:57happened because police
27:58were scared of upsetting
27:59racial sensitivities.
28:04And if those men
28:05come back off bail
28:06and we can't charge them
28:06with anything
28:07there's going to be riots.
28:09They don't know I'm meeting you, you know.
28:28Neither of them.
28:30Amber don't like to think
28:31about that time.
28:33Does she ever talk about it?
28:34Not to me.
28:36Never.
28:36Never.
28:40Lorna.
28:42We've got Ruby's fetus.
28:46When she had the termination
28:47it was seized by the police.
28:52Why?
28:53Well, so that they could test it
28:55and get a DNA match
28:56with the bloke
28:57that got her pregnant.
28:58They got the match
28:59but they didn't do
29:00any more with it
29:01then.
29:02But we can now.
29:05If Ruby gives her permission
29:06to let us use
29:07those DNA results
29:08in court.
29:11Sorry.
29:12There's a real chance
29:16that we can get
29:17this man put away
29:18and all the others
29:19if we can get
29:21the girls to talk.
29:23You don't understand.
29:25Amber, she knows
29:26it were wrong
29:26but Ruby,
29:28she'll never talk to you.
29:30Still thinks
29:30them blocs were friends.
29:33She sees them in the streets
29:34and she waves.
29:36Amber's got to live in here
29:44because of Ruby's
29:45anger problems.
29:46She can't be at home
29:47with me.
30:00Hiya.
30:00She's not herself today.
30:17Are you all?
30:19What's wrong with her?
30:22She's not going to the toilet.
30:25If you lie her on a blanket
30:26and cycle her legs
30:27sometimes that can help
30:28move things along.
30:30I've never heard
30:32of that before.
30:33You on there?
30:35I work with my four
30:37and my grandsons
30:38except for one
30:39who I think
30:39holds it in
30:40just to spite me.
30:46You're a cop?
30:47Yeah.
30:48Coming on 20 years now.
30:50When my kids went to school
30:52I went to uni
30:53and then I joined the force.
30:56I'm not going
30:57in any police station.
30:58You wouldn't have to.
31:01There's a special unit in Bury.
31:04It's for victims.
31:06That's what you were.
31:08A victim.
31:11One of many.
31:13And we'd support you
31:15as a victim
31:15all the way through to trial.
31:17They'll kill me
31:18if I say out to police.
31:19They don't know
31:23where you live.
31:24Take them five seconds
31:25to find out.
31:27I see them
31:28on the streets.
31:29If I go out.
31:31Which I don't.
31:32So you're stuck in here
31:34in a homeless hostel
31:35with a newborn.
31:38Well they're out there
31:39free to go on
31:40about their lives.
31:41When did you move
32:01at your mum and dad's?
32:02A couple of months ago.
32:04Too much fighting
32:05with me dad.
32:08He's just mad
32:08mad at everything.
32:11Mad at me.
32:13Mad at the police.
32:14Mad at CPS.
32:16He joined BNP.
32:19Did he?
32:19Yeah.
32:20And left it again.
32:22Mad at them probably.
32:27Anyway.
32:30He's right
32:31that there's no one
32:32stood up
32:32and he's forcing me
32:33to neck a bottle
32:35of cider every night.
32:38It's not as simple
32:39as that though
32:39is it?
32:41He was like
32:42right Ollie
32:43they've washed
32:44their hands of you.
32:46Move on.
32:48No one's going
32:48to do hope for you.
32:50They didn't then.
32:52But they want to now.
32:56Well what's the point?
32:59It was years ago.
33:01Does it feel like
33:02eight years ago?
33:11Sir?
33:11Yeah?
33:13Holly Winshaw's on board.
33:16Thank God for that.
33:17Well done Nina.
33:18Oh it wasn't me sir
33:19it was Sarah.
33:20Holly trusts her.
33:21Right.
33:24Let's go after
33:25these bastards.
33:26At last
33:27we've a number of girls
33:28who've agreed
33:29to be interviewed
33:29but it's the quality
33:31of those interviews
33:32that's going to make
33:33or break our case
33:34with the CPS.
33:36Memory degrades
33:37like tape degrades.
33:40They want
33:41off the top
33:42of their heads.
33:43Remember names,
33:44addresses
33:44because they were drunk
33:46yes but mainly
33:47because they don't want to.
33:49Every time you ask
33:50a question
33:51you are re-traumatising them.
33:53you're bringing them
33:54back there
33:54but there's no other way
33:56because these girls' memories
33:58that's our crime scene.
34:01are you all right?
34:06I hear the talk
34:07it out.
34:09What?
34:10Oh.
34:12Oh.
34:13Aren't you sweet?
34:17Oh um
34:17cameras
34:18so we've got your evidence
34:20to play a cop.
34:21I know.
34:22I've been here before.
34:24Of course you have.
34:25So
34:36what I want you
34:38to do now Holly
34:39is
34:40start right at the beginning
34:42tell me
34:43in as much detail
34:45as you can
34:45everything that's happened.
34:52Amber.
34:55In the files
34:58back at the office
34:59there was this
35:01list of names
35:04that you wrote out
35:06for Gregory
35:06that social worker
35:07that you saw for a bit
35:08last year.
35:09Do you remember
35:10telling him about
35:11those names?
35:12Your mum said
35:13that he left
35:13shortly after that.
35:19He must have felt
35:20very let down.
35:21The thing is
35:25those names
35:26they're a really
35:26important
35:27piece of evidence
35:29and
35:29maybe we can
35:32build on it.
35:35Maybe you
35:35and me
35:36we can make
35:38something of it.
35:38it's a
35:54don't
35:57He said, don't cry.
36:12And he said, you're beautiful.
36:15And when he was on top of you, what was he doing?
36:20I'm trying to move, but I just gave up.
36:27Because what's the point in trying?
36:57D.C. Margaret Oliver interviewing Amber Bowen.
37:14Amber.
37:17Can you tell me about when you went to the kebab shops?
37:20D.C. Margaret Oliver.
37:22Everything that bitch did she did free-will-in-law.
37:28A fucking scat Olly Winshaw.
37:32Lying fucking bitch.
37:34The list that you gave Gregory, the social worker who was around for a while, that was a list of lots of men, wasn't it?
37:47Addresses of lots of different flats.
37:49They never touched me.
37:53They never touched me.
37:59They actually never touched me unless I wanted them to touch me.
38:03during the year and then it was very difficult for me to maintain without being with us.
38:05I've never had to leave a hospital.
38:07I was really sorry about this for you to have..
38:09..l Bakht, once again.
38:11Look at her!
38:12She's dead and was not been dead and essa so she went down to her.
38:23Well, she's still very, very scared.
38:25But for her, um...
38:27You'll be all right on your own.
38:29My mum's bringing Yasmin back in a minute.
38:34First one's the hardest,
38:36because you're opening up that box that's locked in your head.
38:41It'll get easier.
38:57You'll be all right.
39:26Can you let me in, please, Holly?
39:52His jack boot tag takes his way.
39:56She's safe and happy here.
39:58Come on, have a look at her.
40:01She's safe and happy in this area.
40:04Holly was fully aware that this would be the outcome
40:07if she carried on the way she was.
40:10This isn't about Holly now, is it?
40:13It's about Ella.
40:15My granddaughter.
40:19I am perfectly capable, and my wife is perfectly capable
40:22of looking after her.
40:24This is temporary.
40:26At the moment, it's temporary.
40:27She'll be in foster care for the next few weeks.
40:30I'm sorry, but we have to enforce the order.
40:33Please don't.
40:35I'll do better.
40:36I'll change.
40:37We have to lie.
40:39I'm sorry.
40:41Dad, please.
40:43Dad, please.
40:44Don't.
40:45I'll do better.
40:46I'll change.
40:47We have to lie.
40:48I'm sorry.
40:49Dad, please.
40:50Don't upset the baby.
40:52Come on.
40:54Come on.
40:55I'm sorry.
40:56Dad, please.
40:57Don't upset the baby.
40:58Come on.
41:00Come on.
41:01Don't upset the baby.
41:07Come on.
41:32No.
41:37No.
41:40No.
41:44Daddy.
41:49No.
41:52No.
42:02I can't do no more.
42:26I can't do no more.
42:27You're helping other kids by doing this. You know that, don't you?
42:33Making sure that what happened to you never happens to them.
42:38Imagine how you'd feel if he ever went near Yasmin.
42:43He never could.
42:46He never would because I wouldn't let him.
42:49Yeah, but what if she didn't have someone like you?
42:52What about those kids who don't have anyone to protect them?
43:04I can't do no more.
43:07You can.
43:12I know you can.
43:23I do.
43:25Right, go on then.
43:28Go in there, give it another go.
43:52I know you're running too much.
43:54Like a doctor.
43:56You know?
43:58What about the baby?
44:00I'm sorry.
44:01I don't even know you're running too much, man.
44:03I know you're not.
44:05All right.
44:07I'm so sorry.
44:09Ehm.
44:11I'm so sorry, buddy.
44:13I'm so sorry.
44:15I don't do anything.
44:17But look, I'm stuck in a hole I knew.
44:19Our star witness looking like she's too vulnerable to proceed.
44:36How's Holly doing?
44:38Dunno. It's too early to say.
44:40She's still in hospital, but I do know her parents don't want us coming anywhere near.
44:49Maggie, the boss wants to see you.
44:55You all right?
45:01I've heard Amber's first interview, Maggie.
45:03She's calling Holly every name under the sun.
45:07I know that first interview with Amber wasn't what we needed, but she's done hours more since then.
45:12She's given us names, places, phone numbers, taxi firms.
45:15We need Ruby.
45:16But Ruby's a different kettle of fish altogether.
45:20We need to start thinking like prosecutors now.
45:22There's forensics with Ruby the fetus.
45:25If she gives us consent to use it, and right now...
45:27Right now, she's our best chance of successful prosecution.
45:33I've spent months building a relationship with Amber because that's what it's taken to get her to trust the police.
45:40She was scared at first, Sandy, but then she's really started to open up.
45:46We're not talking about Amber.
45:48I'd like you to engage Ruby.
45:53Sir.
45:56Amber wanted to see you today.
45:59The lunch teething.
46:01Any tips?
46:02What, I just wanted to chat to Ruby today on our own.
46:10I'm not going to lie to you, Ruby.
46:12I want you to tell me what happened to you.
46:15You went through a terrible time, and we want to make sure that that never happens to other children.
46:28I want a terrible time.
46:30It was one of the best times.
46:34It were mint.
46:35You were 13 years old, and he was a married man of nearly 40 with children of his own, and he got you pregnant.
46:43That's not right.
46:44You don't know anything.
46:45I know you were the victim of somebody who was older and should...
46:49We was having a relationship.
46:52He loved me.
46:54I wasn't a victim of anything.
46:56I don't know.
47:00I told you you'd have no chance with Ruby.
47:07It's okay.
47:07She's just got to work it out in her own head.
47:09She's asleep.
47:39Bye.
47:41Okay.
47:43Do you want to come in?
47:48She's got nothing to live for now.
47:51No focus.
47:53No purpose.
47:54And it's maddening.
47:57Because she played right into their hands and did the exact thing that gave them the power to take Ella off her.
48:02You lied to Ron.
48:05To get involved with this.
48:07You cannot go home, can't you, at the end of the day.
48:10It's her that's left with it going round and round in her head.
48:13I did egg her on.
48:21Because I thought it would help her.
48:23Always done her the power of good, hasn't it?
48:25And I still think that this is important.
48:28Psychologically.
48:30For her to get the chance to stand up and say what happened.
48:36She's been standing up for years.
48:38Yes, she has.
48:39But now, finally, there's people listening.
48:44Did it look like a baby?
48:54I don't know.
49:03How big was it?
49:04Was it tiny?
49:11I don't know.
49:22Why did they freeze it?
49:26I think so then it won't go off.
49:30So they can do tests on it if they wanted to.
49:32But they can't do out with results unless you say they can.
49:40Okay.
49:47It's a shame for it.
49:52What happened to it?
49:56Ain't it?
50:00Yeah.
50:02It won't always be like this.
50:20Yeah, it will.
50:20We can apply for guardianship of her.
50:38Minimum.
50:40If you want that.
50:42I don't know why I did it.
50:45I'm done.
50:46Sarah came to see you.
50:53Sounds like the coppers this time around.
50:55They're night and day from the other.
51:02You don't have to have anything to do with them.
51:04But if you want to carry on with this,
51:08your mum and me,
51:09we'll be right behind you.
51:11Go on, Ruby.
51:22They pass you around like a ball.
51:30They, like, get your number,
51:32and then there's, like,
51:3450 people you don't know
51:36who are ringing you.
51:38What do you mean?
51:41They pass you around like a ball, Ruby.
51:47They'd be in a flat
51:49in, like, a massive circle.
51:53And then they'd put the white girl in the middle.
51:56And you'd get sent off of one of them,
51:58and then you'd come back
52:00and, like, get passed and passed again.
52:02And where was the flat?
52:07There weren't one.
52:08There were loads.
52:10I didn't feel anything.
52:15Why do you think you felt like that?
52:19Because it had been going on for so long.
52:25It hurt.
52:28Because I didn't want to do it.
52:32And I'd only had sex, like,
52:34a couple of times before that as well.
52:38Say again, sorry.
52:42Um,
52:44because I'd only had sex, like,
52:46a couple of times before that.
52:50And we thought that he was a boyfriend.
52:53So what did you think was going to happen
52:55when he picked you up?
52:56I didn't actually know
53:00how he was taking us to have sex.
53:03What was she doing?
53:05Oh, I tried to move.
53:07But I just gave up.
53:12Because what's the point in trying?
53:14The problem is the witness, Holly Winchell.
53:20She was seen as unreliable then
53:22and arguably she's even less likely
53:24to convince a jury now
53:25given the trouble she's had in the meantime.
53:28Chaotic.
53:29Chaotic.
53:30That's exactly the kind of person
53:32who's affected by this crime.
53:34The girl that no one's looking out for,
53:35who's on the streets at night,
53:37out of control of the parents.
53:39That quality made her a victim in the first place.
53:42Agreed.
53:43So, if it's also the quality
53:44that keeps her out of the witness box,
53:46isn't she doubly damned?
53:47But to be ultra-pragmatic for a moment,
53:49what is the point
53:50in subjecting a girl like Holly to a trial
53:53if a jury is not going to believe
53:56she's telling the truth?
53:57If a jury's not going to believe her,
53:58why are we making that assumption?
54:02I watched her interviews.
54:05And I believed her.
54:08And in court,
54:10how do we deal with the fact
54:11that it's on record
54:12that we didn't believe her?
54:15We put our hand up
54:17and we say we got it wrong.
54:21It went well.
54:23CPS have agreed the charges
54:24we want to go for in respect of Ruby.
54:27Really good work, Maggie.
54:28Well done.
54:29And the Chief Prosecutor himself
54:31has given us the green light on Holly.
54:33We're going to trial.
54:34Emily, can I have a word?
54:52Yeah, of course.
54:54It's about Amber.
54:57Look, I'm sorry, Maggie,
54:58but we cannot put her in a witness box.
55:00I don't believe it.
55:04No.
55:05She's just too volatile.
55:07She's been through
55:08what the other girls have gone through
55:09and more.
55:10I know, but a jury...
55:12A jury can see a damaged person
55:13when there's one in front of them.
55:14But she will not go down well
55:16with the jury.
55:19So,
55:20Holly's the right kind of victim,
55:22but Amber...
55:22Isn't this the kind of attitude
55:25towards young girls
55:26that created this mess
55:27in the first place?
55:28This is not a value judgment.
55:31It's just a statement of fact
55:32about what the legal system demands.
55:34We need to be strategic
55:37about calling witnesses
55:39so we can get those convictions.
55:41We cannot have
55:42two kids contradicting
55:44and blaming each other.
55:45The jury's heads will pop
55:46and we will go away with nothing.
55:48Let's credit the jury
55:49with some intelligence.
55:50Both of these girls were victims.
55:53Amber was the kind of kid
55:54whose basic human needs,
55:57warmth, shelter, food, drink,
56:00were being met by a kebab shop.
56:02And if she was in charge,
56:04if she was getting the other girls
56:05to dish out blowjobs,
56:07it was so that she didn't have
56:08to do them all herself.
56:09Maggie, stop it.
56:10You're getting too emotional.
56:11Yeah, but isn't that exactly
56:12why I was put on this job?
56:13Because I'm older,
56:15I'm a mum,
56:16I'm a gran.
56:16Oh, I'm so bloody domestic,
56:18the girls will forget
56:19that I'm a copper
56:19and they'll trust me
56:20and they'll open up to me.
56:21And that's exactly
56:22what Amber did.
56:24Do you know what it cost her
56:25to do that?
56:25And for what?
56:26So that I can go back to her
56:27and say,
56:28no one's going to court
56:29for what they did to you
56:30because you're coarse
56:31and you swear
56:32and you're unsympathetic.
56:34Sandy guaranteed
56:34that this wouldn't happen again.
56:39It is the job
56:40of the CPS
56:41to decide what we present
56:43at trial.
56:45Not everybody gets
56:46their day in court, Maggie.
56:48They're not using Amber
56:49but they're going to use Ruby.
56:54I'm not using anyone.
56:55nine men have been charged
57:15over allegations of grooming
57:17and committing sexual activity
57:18with teenage girls in Rockstow.
57:20The men have been charged
57:22with offences
57:22including rape,
57:24paying for the sexual services
57:25of a child,
57:26trafficking a child
57:27and controlling
57:28child prostitution
57:29going back to 2008.
57:32It should be at our media
57:32you are charged
57:33with conspiracy
57:34to have sexual activity
57:35with a child,
57:36conspiring with others
57:37to sexually touch a child,
57:40multiple counts of trafficking,
57:42multiple counts of rape.
57:43nine not guilty pleas
57:45which means
57:47nine cross-examinations
57:48which means
57:49nine different barristers
57:50telling these girls
57:51that every word
57:52they're saying
57:53is a lie.
57:56Are they up to it?
58:00Innocent white victims?
58:02Dark-skinned abusers?
58:05It's uncomfortable,
58:06isn't it?
58:07The whole bloody country
58:08is waiting on this trial.
58:09And she's up there
58:10having a lie-in.
58:12Where is she?
58:14How dare you
58:15show your faith here again?
58:17If they didn't want me
58:18to be a witness
58:18why did they like
58:19beg me to do it
58:19in the first place?
58:21This incident
58:21did not happen,
58:22did it Holly?
58:23Yeah it did.
58:25It was me you trusted,
58:26it was me you poured
58:28your heart out to
58:29and I'm sorry.
58:30You're just going to
58:31carry on doing
58:32what you've been doing
58:33for years,
58:34telling the truth.
58:38Three Girls concludes
58:39tomorrow night at nine
58:40on BBC One.
58:43million.
58:53You're welcome.
58:54I know
58:54it was me I know
58:56I've been doing
58:57very closely with you
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