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00:00The End
00:01The End
00:02The End
00:03The End
00:04The End
00:05The End
00:06The End
00:07The End
00:08The End
00:09Right, Holly. She'll start again. From the beginning.
00:25Me mates, there's no one standing at the window waiting to kick off.
00:28Well, if you like it so much, when are you going to live there then?
00:32When are you going to let me have sex with you?
00:34No.
00:35Don't let them kiss you.
00:37Get off me!
00:38I don't take my top off or nothing.
00:42You're not safe. He's going to kill you.
00:47Tell me everything you want the police to know.
00:53Can I call?
00:54I don't know what they're going to do to us.
00:55Who?
00:56The men.
00:58They do nothing to us.
00:59You come back home with us and we'll sort this. I promise you.
01:03We will sort it.
01:04You were saying about Tarek and Amber.
01:16Tarek started taking his places.
01:28He started picking us up and Amber thought that he was a boyfriend.
01:33So, what did you think was going on when he picked you up?
01:42I didn't actually know he was taking us to have sex.
01:48I don't know if she did, but...
01:50So what did you think was going to happen?
01:52I don't know.
01:55I don't know.
02:12What do you want?
02:13Is Amber Bowen at this address?
02:16Amber!
02:19Well, what do you want her for?
02:26Amber Bowen?
02:28Yeah?
02:30We're arresting you on suspicion of inciting girls for prostitution.
02:33Doing what?
02:37She's 15.
02:3915 in the cell.
02:40She's being interviewed now.
02:41What for?
02:42What for?
02:43She's got a solicitor with her.
02:44Yeah, I'm a mum.
02:45I should be in there with her.
02:46Look, I know we fucking rights.
02:47Look, you can either wait here or we'll call you when it's concluded.
02:50She's 15!
03:04Are you arranging for girls to have sex with men?
03:08I'm not coming.
03:12You taking money while other girls have sex with men?
03:17I'm not coming.
03:20Are you a madam, Amber?
03:30I'm not coming.
03:38Your mum's outside, having a fag.
03:51What have you done?
03:54They're good ones, aren't they?
03:57Is Ruby doing it?
03:59Whatever it is, is...
04:01Is Ruby doing it?
04:02I've gotta go.
04:03Where are you going?
04:05Where are you going?
04:06Can you go?
04:07No, no, no, no, no.
04:12buscando her family.
04:27MUSIC CONTINUES
04:33Ruby?
04:34What? What are you doing?
04:37Where do you go when you're out with them packers?
04:40What do you do?
04:42Erm...
04:45I sit on the settee.
04:49They give me money for sitting on the settee.
04:57MUSIC CONTINUES
05:05Ruby is pregnant.
05:11We'll need more tests to check for STIs.
05:16Are you going to bash me face in?
05:19No, Ruby.
05:22Why would you say that?
05:24Because that's what you always said.
05:26When you remember I got pregnant before we were 16.
05:28Come here.
05:36Do you know who got you pregnant?
05:38Yeah.
05:40What's he called?
05:42Billy.
05:44Billy what?
05:46Just Billy.
05:48Do you know where he lives?
05:52I've locked Grange.
05:54Right.
05:55Come on.
05:56Why?
05:57I don't want him to get into trouble.
06:00It's all right.
06:02You just point at his house.
06:04MUSIC CONTINUES
06:06Is that his taxi?
06:20Yeah.
06:22And is that his house?
06:24Yeah.
06:26Can we go now?
06:28See you.
06:30Bye.
06:32Bye.
06:34See you.
06:48Bye.
06:50Bye.
06:52Hello, Rochdale Police.
06:5413 year old on the child protection register.
07:08Got a statement of learning needs.
07:10Pregnant by a mid-thirties man with a family of his own.
07:14I can tell you his name, his address, his licence plate.
07:18She's getting a termination tomorrow at Millfield Road Clinic.
07:24Three o'clock.
07:26Hello.
07:40Ruby Bowen?
07:42Ruby's frightened of needles.
07:44She'll be fine.
07:46Come home.
07:47Where can I go?
08:00Jesus!
08:02Where do I go?
08:04Here is our troops.
08:05With them, there will be enough great dogs to move under our feet.
08:07In the dining explences火 station.
08:09Look at it.
08:10The pool has nicee bars for her crashesад by everything.
08:13He was doing appeasement.
08:34What's that then?
08:35Like, he was just saying yeah to what Hitler wanted,
08:39just to, like, keep the peace.
08:41Very good.
08:43Where was he from?
08:44The Conservatives.
08:45What part of the world?
08:47Well, that's not in it.
08:48Is it?
08:49It's a bonus question.
08:51Dad, it's GCSEs, not a pub quiz.
08:54Oh, smartass.
08:55How many GCSEs have you got?
08:57Only of you.
08:58No comment.
08:59Well, what about what's in there?
09:01Did I do all right?
09:02All right.
09:03You got every one.
09:04And for that, Paxo is gonna make you a cup of tea.
09:09One for me as well, please.
09:11Yes.
09:13Holly, I've got yours.
09:37Girls, can we have a minute, please?
09:38Did I pass any?
09:44You passed them all.
09:48Everyone.
09:49You can do A-levels, Holly.
09:51You can go to university.
09:54You can do whatever you want.
09:59Holly will be back soon.
10:00Don't you want to know how she got on?
10:02Of course I do.
10:02I'm gonna go a meter, aren't we?
10:33Tell us.
10:53Will you just tell us?
10:54Where's Dad?
10:59Passed them all.
11:01Every single one.
11:03That's fantastic, love.
11:06Dad, what's wrong?
11:17Your case has been dropped.
11:20There's going to be no charges against anyone.
11:25Why?
11:25Because there's an unrealistic prospect of conviction.
11:30His DNA's all over your knickers.
11:31Jim!
11:32And there's an unrealistic prospect of conviction.
11:35What about all the interviews I did and picking them out of a line-up?
11:44It wasn't the police, Ollie.
11:45It was CPS.
11:47Why?
11:49I told the truth.
11:51I told them everything.
11:53I know.
11:53They didn't think the jury would believe you.
11:56Yeah.
12:26Thanks very much, but no thanks.
12:37You don't even know what I'm going to ask you yet.
12:39I know you've got an operation running into sex abuse by Asian gangs.
12:43What else have you heard?
12:44That there's been a fetus found in a freezer belonging to a 13-year-old girl.
12:50You've had a 15-year-old locked in a cell for being a madam.
12:54All sorts.
12:56It's not good.
12:58Ah, but we've a chance now, to put it right.
13:00We can get convictions here, Maggie, if we can re-engage the girls.
13:04I've been here before, Sandy. 2004, 2005.
13:08Same story, but Manchester, not Rochdale.
13:12I spent over a year getting two 14-year-old girls
13:15to spill their guts to me about what had been done to them,
13:18only for the whole thing to just fade away.
13:20Maggie, you can trust me when I tell you there's a fair wind behind this one.
13:23You can have a Force 9 gale, but that won't compel a vulnerable kid into a witness box.
13:28I know that. Which is why I need you.
13:32Come on, Maggie. Let me just show you the file.
13:40File?
13:41All right. Files.
13:45Amber and Ruby Bowen.
13:47Amber of the jail cell.
13:49Ruby of the fetus.
13:51They're key to this and we need them.
13:52Both of them.
13:54They're both victims of the same group of men.
13:57But Amber was arrested.
14:00She was, yeah.
14:02Other kids thought she was in control.
14:03Maybe she even thought she was in control, but of course she wasn't.
14:06The men were.
14:07She was never charged.
14:09And Ruby?
14:11Well, we've got forensics with the fetus that leads us right to the perpetrator.
14:15If we can get her consent for us having it in the first place.
14:21So she doesn't know that we have it or that it was ever taken?
14:25I'm not going to lie to you, Maggie.
14:27It's a mess.
14:29Rochdale has had trouble with on-street grooming going way back.
14:32And even when they had a cracking case, a kid called Holly Winshaw, they never got it to trial.
14:37Now the IPCC are investigating their failings.
14:40How many victims?
14:4147.
14:43They're drowning in it.
14:45My priority is to reopen every one of these cases and re-engage the girls.
14:56Adil Khan, Shabir Ahmed, Abdul Aziz, Kabir Hassan, Mohammed Sajid, Mohammed Amin, Abdul Ralph, Abdul Kayum, Hamid Safi, and Ymir.
15:08We don't need to bother about him because he's in jail already.
15:10What for, sir?
15:11Child abuse charges going back to the 1980s.
15:14He was a fugitive from the law when he did what he did to these girls.
15:18He got 15 years, so he's out of the way.
15:22I want the rest of these individuals arrested.
15:24Who is this?
15:25I want them taken to separate police stations to be interviewed, and I want their houses searched.
15:31Press no, we've an operation running.
15:33They've agreed to a news embargo till the new year.
15:36All right.
15:37If your role is with victims, then I want you planning your approach with Peter Boyd, who's a specialist interview advisor.
15:45I know Mr. Guthrie will have belaboured the point, but I am going to hammer it home some more.
15:51This entire operation stands and falls on us being able to re-engage these girls.
15:58They were children.
15:59They were raped and abused, and when they went to the police, nothing was done about it.
16:03What this investigation needs, more than anything, is open minds.
16:06I want you going out there thinking of these girls as your own kids or grandkids, because if it was your own, you'd be torn to pieces.
16:19Why?
16:22My name?
16:22Mr. Winshaw, it's Holly at home.
16:24She's in a mother and baby hostel.
16:26I've got three other kids in there, and I can't have Holly ripping a hole in the middle of this house.
16:34And do you know I blame for that?
16:36Whose fault it is that she's in pieces and seems determined to stay that way?
16:40You.
16:42Or you.
16:43I'm Maggie Oliver, I'm a detective with the Greater Manchester Police.
16:54This is Detective John Duff.
16:56I'd like to talk to you and the girls.
16:57They're not here.
16:58Who is it?
17:00One.
17:02Who are you?
17:03What are you saying they've done?
17:04We're not saying they've done anything.
17:05Far from it.
17:06We need their help.
17:07We're here because they were both victims of offences.
17:10Just fucking answering me when I ask you.
17:12Who the fuck are they?
17:13Stay in the house.
17:14For fuck's sake, what are you doing?
17:17Get it.
17:20Greater Manchester Police are reopening an investigation into what went on.
17:24I've come to ask if they'd be prepared to make statements.
17:26What do you think you're doing coming to my door now?
17:28I understand you weren't expecting us, but we...
17:31Expecting you?
17:31Why would I be expecting you?
17:33You knew what was going on.
17:35And what did you do?
17:37Arrest me daughter for being a pimp.
17:39No one.
17:40Bothered.
17:41Except that Sarah at sexual health.
17:44None of you.
17:46We want nothing to do with any of you.
17:50So don't come near because we are giving you nothing.
17:56What are you doing?
17:57What are you doing?
17:58I'm not doing nothing.
17:59Why are you shouting at me?
18:00I'm not shouting at you.
18:01Just fuck off.
18:02Fuck off.
18:03Fuck off.
18:04Fuck off.
18:10Sorry.
18:11I said it was really good as well.
18:20I'm DC Maggie Oliver.
18:26I'm a detective with the Greater Manchester Police.
18:30Okay.
18:31GMP's running an operation, Operation Span, to put right what went wrong at Rochdale in relation
18:38to the grooming of young girls.
18:39And I understand that you've made several referrals to the police in relation to two girls in particular,
18:47Amber and Ruby Bowen.
18:48So I'm here in the hope that you might have some relevant intelligence in relation to them.
18:55I've got the car, so if there are any files, I can take them now.
19:14Fuck off.
19:18No, really.
19:20I mean it.
19:22Fuck off.
19:25I've been in here, sat in here, for years.
19:31And what you're demanding of me now, I couldn't pay you lot to look at for years.
19:37And what, you're swanning here off the street with your Prada rambag telling me to hand it over
19:43like you're asking to check my gas meter.
19:45I understand that you...
19:46Oh, no, you don't.
19:49You really, really don't.
19:51What those girls have been telling me for years, I have been powerless to do anything
19:58about because you lot didn't want to know.
20:01Well, we want to know now.
20:02This is the biggest operation GMP's running.
20:04And what do you think's been happening to those girls in the meantime?
20:08Raped, beaten, not believed.
20:11Raped, beaten, not believed.
20:13What do you think that does to a kid?
20:19Do you think they're sitting around waiting to do the civic duty because you lot have got
20:22your act together?
20:25If you want documents off me, make an application, fill out the form, do whatever official thing
20:31it is you coppers have to do when you're after evidence.
20:34But don't rock up here after all these years acting like you're the saviour of the family.
20:40Here's your little bunny.
21:06Here you go.
21:08Here he is.
21:10Holly, when you went to the police about Tarek and Daddy and those other men, the CPS
21:19made a decision not to prosecute.
21:22But now there's a new team of police working on the kind of crime you were a victim of.
21:27We want to reopen your case and bring these men to trial.
21:32So you want me to help you?
21:34Yeah, we do.
21:37When you never help me.
21:40Why would I do that?
21:45Not because you come here and you sit being nice to me baby.
21:49Why don't you try taking me to McDonald's?
21:52Or is it just social workers who do that?
21:57It's pathetic.
21:58I just want to talk to you, Holly.
22:00The police just want to talk to you.
22:02I've talked to them.
22:05I've talked to them.
22:07And talked to them.
22:08And talked to them.
22:09And talked to them.
22:10And talked to them.
22:12And then they turn around and call me a liar.
22:14Are you Margaret Oliver?
22:23I am, yeah.
22:27From Sarah Robotham.
22:30Brushing a sexual herb.
22:32There's two more down the hall.
22:33There aren't 47 girls.
22:50There's hundreds of them.
22:51She's got names, addresses.
22:55Reg plates.
22:57Multiple girls reporting the same perpetrators.
22:59Why the hell didn't Rochdale's CID have these files?
23:02Because they didn't want them.
23:03What do you mean they didn't want them?
23:04It's bloody evidence.
23:06Not according to them.
23:08Sexual health made hundreds of referrals to the police.
23:10And they got the same response every time.
23:12Oh, this isn't evidence, Sarah.
23:14It's just intelligence.
23:16And it's not something for us to do anything about.
23:20No wonder she wiped the floor with me.
23:26Operation Stable Door, this.
23:28Girls just will not talk to us.
23:31We've underestimated how fragile they are.
23:33And the level of anger and betrayal they feel towards the police.
23:42Well, because this is a live investigation for Greater Manchester Police,
23:46detectives are keeping their cards pretty close to their chests.
23:49But what we do know is that nine arrests were made here in Rochdale
23:52just before Christmas over allegations
23:55concerning the sexual exploitation of teenage girls.
23:59Now, we understand that all the men are Asian
24:01and that all the girls involved are white.
24:04The arrests were made on suspicion of allowing premises
24:07to be used for prostitution, of inciting child prostitution,
24:11suspicion of rape and sexual activity with a child.
24:15And the nine men have been released on bail
24:17while police investigate the allegations.
24:20Hannah, am I right in thinking that these are not new allegations?
24:23Well, these allegations were made to Rochdale Police in 2008.
24:27However, the case was dropped
24:29and none of the complaints against these men ever made it to trial.
24:32Now, this is something Greater Manchester Police
24:34is going to have to grapple with
24:35as the police's own watchdog,
24:37the Independent Police Complaints Commission,
24:39has been brought in to look at what happened.
24:42It's early days yet for that inquiry,
24:45but we do know there are concerns within Greater Manchester Police
24:48about the standard and the quality of the earlier investigation.
24:52What do you think you're going to find?
25:01I'm not a total fucking moron.
25:03You know the score, Holly.
25:05So Bryce is a condition of your keeping, Ella.
25:08That's why we do these spot checks.
25:10I could be arsehole right now
25:11and you lot wouldn't have a clue.
25:14Are you?
25:15Of course I'm fucking not.
25:16You're not helping yourself.
25:23Or her.
25:24You're a pointless fucking bitch.
25:25Do you know that?
25:26This is Emily Stone from the CPS.
25:38She'll be working alongside us at Span from here on in.
25:41There's a couple of cases where the evidence is already there.
25:45Holly Winshaw, Ruby Bowen, Amber Bowen.
25:48They've told us where to go, I know that,
25:50but we need to approach them again.
25:53I just don't think a family like the Bowens
25:54would cooperate with us in a month of Sundays.
25:57What's the obstacle?
25:57It's that.
26:00It's that, John.
26:01It's that attitude.
26:02A family like that.
26:04That's the obstacle.
26:07Lorna can smell that office as soon as look at us
26:09because everyone in authority treats her like that.
26:12It's not brain surgery, this.
26:15We treat them as human beings
26:17and we say we're sorry.
26:19Hello?
26:23Oh, hi, Lorna.
26:25Who is this?
26:26It's Maggie Oliver.
26:28We met a couple of weeks ago
26:29when I came round to your house
26:30to talk to you about the girls.
26:32Hello?
26:33Can you hear me?
26:35What do you want?
26:36I told you.
26:37Yeah, I know you did
26:39and I'm not surprised
26:40because if I were you
26:41and a copper came round to my door,
26:43I'd want to hose them off the pavement.
26:44But I'd like another chance to talk to you.
26:48What happened to your girls is a disgrace.
26:52What we let happen.
26:54But we've got a chance to put it right.
26:59Ring me next week.
27:03Who's ring you next week?
27:05It's just someone from housing.
27:07And leading the Times
27:13is a culture of silence
27:14that has facilitated
27:15the sexual exploitation
27:17of hundreds of young British girls
27:18by criminal pimping gangs
27:20as exposed by the paper today.
27:22A pattern of abuse
27:23across the North and Midlanders.
27:24The Times is pursuing
27:25the revelation
27:26in the paper
27:28that there is
27:29sexual exploitation
27:30of hundreds of young girls.
27:31The Times newspaper
27:32identified 17 prosecutions
27:34of street grooming
27:35over the past 14 years
27:37and it said
27:37of the 56 convicted
27:39in those cases,
27:4053 were Asian.
27:46Max, Max,
27:47a word.
27:48You've seen the papers.
27:54It's all eyes on us.
27:55Times is saying
27:56the failures in Rochdale
27:57happened because police
27:58were scared of upsetting
27:59racial sensitivities.
28:04And if those men
28:05come back off bail
28:06and we can't charge them
28:06with anything,
28:07there's going to be riots.
28:08They don't know
28:26I'm meeting you,
28:26you know.
28:28Neither of them.
28:30Amber don't like
28:31to think about that time.
28:33Does she ever talk about it?
28:35Not to me.
28:36Never.
28:38Lorna.
28:42We've got Ruby's fetus.
28:46When she had the termination,
28:48it was seized by the police.
28:52Why?
28:53Well, so that they could test it
28:55and get a DNA match
28:56with the bloke
28:57that got her pregnant.
28:58They got the match,
29:00but they didn't do
29:00any more with it then.
29:02But we can now.
29:05If Ruby gives her permission
29:06to let us use
29:07those DNA results
29:08in court.
29:11Sorry.
29:15There's a real chance
29:16that we can get
29:17this man put away
29:18and all the others
29:19if we can get
29:21the girls to talk.
29:23You don't understand.
29:25Amber, she knows
29:26it were wrong.
29:27But Ruby,
29:28she'll never talk to you.
29:30Still thinks
29:30them blokes were friends.
29:32she sees them in the streets.
29:34She waves.
29:43Amber's got to live in here
29:44because of Ruby's anger problems.
29:46She can't be at home with me.
29:47she's not herself today.
29:48She's not herself today.
29:48She's not herself today.
29:53She's not herself today.
30:11Are you?
30:13What's wrong with her?
30:16She's not going to the toilet.
30:17If you lie her on a blanket
30:19and cycle her legs,
30:19sometimes that can help
30:20move things along.
30:20I've never heard of that before.
30:21You remember?
30:22I've worked with my four
30:23and my grandsons
30:24except for one
30:26who I think holds it in
30:27just despite me.
30:47Yeah, coming on 20 years now.
30:51And my kids went to school
30:52I went to uni and then I joined the force.
30:56I'm not going in any police station.
30:59You wouldn't have to.
31:01There's a special unit in Bury.
31:03It's for victims.
31:06That's what you were.
31:08A victim.
31:11One of many.
31:13And we'd support you as a victim all the way through to trial.
31:17They'll kill me if I say out to police.
31:22They don't know where you live.
31:24Take them five seconds to find out.
31:27I see them on the streets.
31:29If I go out.
31:31Which I don't.
31:32So you're stuck in here.
31:34In a homeless hostel with a newborn.
31:37Well they're out there.
31:39Free to go on about their lives.
31:52When did you move out your mum and dad's?
32:02A couple of months ago.
32:04Too much fighting with me dad.
32:07He's just mad at everything.
32:11Mad at me.
32:13Mad at the police.
32:14Mad at CPS.
32:16He joined BMP.
32:18Did he?
32:19Yeah.
32:20And left it again.
32:21Mad at them probably.
32:28Anyway.
32:29He's right that there's no one stood up for me.
32:32Forcing me to.
32:34Neck a bottle of cider every night.
32:37It's not as simple as that though is it?
32:40He was like.
32:42Right Ollie.
32:43They've washed their hands of you.
32:45Move on.
32:47No one's gonna do hope for you.
32:49Yeah.
32:50They didn't then.
32:51But they want to now.
32:57What's the point?
32:58I mean it was years ago.
33:01Does it feel like years ago?
33:11Sir?
33:12Yeah?
33:13Holly Winshaw's on board.
33:16Thank God for that.
33:17Well done Nina.
33:18Oh it wasn't me sir.
33:19It was Sarah.
33:20Holly trusts her.
33:21Right.
33:24Let's go after these bastards.
33:26At last we've a number of girls who've agreed to be interviewed.
33:29But it's the quality of those interviews that's going to make or break our case with the CPS.
33:36Memory degrades like tape degrades.
33:39They won't off the top of their heads.
33:42Remember names, addresses, because they were drunk yes.
33:46But mainly because they don't want to.
33:48Every time you ask a question, you are re-traumatizing them.
33:52You're bringing them back there.
33:54But there's no other way.
33:56Because these girls' memories, that's our crime scene.
34:00Are you all right?
34:01Are you a little girl?
34:02Oh.
34:03Oh.
34:04Aren't you sweet?
34:05Oh, um, cameras.
34:06So we've got your evidence to play a cop.
34:07I know.
34:08I've been here before.
34:09Of course you have.
34:10Of course you have.
34:11So, what I want you to do now, Holly, is start right now.
34:12Oh.
34:13Oh.
34:14Oh, aren't you sweet?
34:15Oh, um, cameras.
34:16So we've got your evidence to play a cop.
34:17Um, cameras, so we've got your evidence to play a cop.
34:20I know.
34:21I've been here before.
34:22Of course you have.
34:24Of course you have.
34:36So, what I want you to do now, Holly, is start right at the beginning.
34:43Tell me in as much detail as you can everything that's happened.
34:52But in the files, back at the office, there was this list of names that you wrote out for
35:06Gregory, that social worker that you saw for a bit last year.
35:09Do you remember telling him about those names?
35:11Your mum said that he left shortly after that.
35:15You must have felt very let down.
35:22Thing is, those names, they're a really important piece of evidence and, um, maybe we can build on it.
35:33Maybe you and me, we can make something of it.
35:38A little bit.
35:39A little bit.
35:43You were scared...
35:44You were scared...
35:47You were scared...
35:48Right...
35:50.. znaczy...
36:04We found her feelings to be confused.
36:05He said don't cry, and he said you're beautiful, and when he wasn't up here, what was he doing?
36:20I'm trying to move, but I just gave up, because what's the point in trying?
36:35I'm trying to move, but I just gave up, because what's the point in trying?
36:57DC Margaret Oliver interviewing Amber Bowen, Amber, can you tell me about when you went
37:19to the kebab shops? Everything that bitch did she did for you, wasn't it? The list that you gave Gregory, the social worker who was around for a while, that was a list of lots of men, wasn't it?
37:49Addresses of lots of different flats. They never touched me. They actually never touched me unless I wanted them to touch me.
38:19Will you be alright on your own? My mum's bringing Yasmin back in a minute.
38:31First one's the hardest, because you're opening up that box that's locked in your head. It'll get easier.
38:43I don't understand.
38:49I don't know.
38:55Let's go.
39:25Can you let me in, please, Holly?
39:38Can you let me in, please?
40:08Don't move on the way she was.
40:09This isn't about Holly now, is it?
40:13It's about Ella.
40:14My granddaughter.
40:17I am perfectly capable and my wife is perfectly capable of looking after her own.
40:24This is temporary. At the moment, it's temporary. She'll be in foster care in the next few weeks.
40:30I'm sorry, but we have to enforce the order.
40:34Please don't. I'll do better. I'll change.
40:51We have to lie.
40:55I'm sorry. Dad, please.
41:00Don't upset the baby.
41:06Come on.
41:30No.
41:37No.
41:40No.
41:44Daddy.
41:49No.
41:52No.
41:53No.
42:06I can't do no, Mom.
42:07You're helping other kids by doing this. You know that, don't you?
42:22Making sure that what happened to you never happens to them.
42:24Imagine how you'd feel if they ever went near Yasmin.
42:28It never could.
42:30It never would, because I wouldn't let them.
42:32Yeah, but what if she didn't have someone like you?
42:33What about those kids who don't have anyone to protect them?
42:34Yeah, but what if she didn't have someone like you?
42:36What about those kids who don't have anyone to protect them?
42:38I can't do no more.
42:40I can't do no more.
42:42You can't do nothing, I can do no more.
43:07You can.
43:12I know you can.
43:22OK.
43:24Right, go on then.
43:27Go in there, give it another go.
43:37OK.
44:07Our star witness looking like she's still vulnerable to proceed.
44:36How's Holly doing?
44:38Dunno.
44:39It's too early to say.
44:41She's still in hospital but I do know her parents don't want us coming anywhere near.
44:51Maggie?
44:52The boss wants to see you.
44:55You alright?
45:01I've heard Amber's first interview Maggie.
45:03She's calling Holly every name under the sun.
45:06I know that first interview with Amber wasn't what we needed but she's done hours more since then.
45:12She's given us names, places, phone numbers, taxi firms.
45:15We need Ruby.
45:16But Ruby's a different kettle of fish altogether.
45:20We need to start thinking like prosecutors now.
45:22There's forensics with Ruby the foetus.
45:24If she gives us consent to use it and right now...
45:27Right now she's our best chance of successful prosecution.
45:33I've spent months building a relationship with Amber because that's what it's taken to get her to trust the police.
45:40She was scared at first Sandy but then she's really started to open up.
45:45We're not talking about Amber.
45:47I'd like you to engage Ruby.
45:50Sir.
45:52Amber wanted to see you today.
45:57Underline Steven.
46:00Any tips?
46:02What?
46:03I just wanted to chat to Ruby today on our own.
46:10I'm not going to lie to you Ruby.
46:11I want you to tell me what happened to you.
46:15You went through a terrible time and we want to make sure that that never happens to other children.
46:20It wasn't a terrible time.
46:31It was one of the best times.
46:33It was mint.
46:34You were 13 years old.
46:37And he was a married man of nearly 40 with children of his own.
46:41And he got you pregnant.
46:42That's not right.
46:43You don't know anything.
46:44I know you were the victim of somebody who was older and should...
46:48We was having a relationship.
46:51He loved me.
46:53I wasn't a victim of anything.
47:04I told you'd have no chance with Ruby.
47:06It's okay.
47:07She's just got to work it out in her own head.
47:18She's asleep.
47:19Fine.
47:20Okay.
47:21Do you want to come in?
47:23She's got nothing to live for now.
47:24No focus.
47:25No purpose.
47:26No purpose.
47:27And it's maddening.
47:28Because she plays a little bit.
47:29No purpose.
47:30No purpose.
47:31And it's maddening.
47:32Because she plays a little bit.
47:33No purpose.
47:34No purpose.
47:35No purpose.
47:36No purpose.
47:37And it's maddening.
47:38Because she played right into their hands and did the exact thing that gave them the power to take Ella off her.
47:49You lied to her on.
47:50To get involved with this.
47:51You can all go home, can't you?
47:52At the end of the day.
47:53It's her that's left with it going round and round in her head.
47:56Yeah.
47:57I did egg her on.
47:58Because I thought it would help her.
47:59Oh, it's done her the power of good, isn't it?
48:00And I still think.
48:01It's maddening.
48:02It's maddening.
48:03Because she played right into their hands and did the exact thing that gave them the power to take Ella off her.
48:05You lied to her on.
48:06To get involved with this.
48:07You can all go home, can't you?
48:08At the end of the day.
48:09It's her that's left with it going round and round in her head.
48:13Yeah.
48:14I did egg her on.
48:19Because I thought it would help her.
48:22Oh, it's done her the power of good, isn't it?
48:25And I still think that this is important, psychologically.
48:30For her to get the chance to stand up and say what happened.
48:36She's been standing up for years.
48:38Yes, she has.
48:39But now, finally, there's people listening.
48:48Did it look like a baby?
48:50I don't know.
49:03How big was it?
49:08Was it tiny?
49:11I don't know.
49:12Why did they freeze it?
49:26I think so then it won't go off.
49:30So they can do tests on it if they wanted to.
49:33But they can't do out with results unless you say they can.
49:40Okay.
49:48It's a shame for it.
49:52What happened to it?
49:56Ain't it?
49:57Yeah.
50:17It won't always be like this.
50:19Yeah, it will.
50:27We can apply for a guardianship offer.
50:38Me and your mum.
50:40If you want that.
50:42I don't know why I did it.
50:45I'm done.
50:46It's sad I came to see you.
50:52It seems like the coppers this time round.
50:55They're night and day from the other one.
51:01You don't have to have anything to do with them,
51:03but if you want to carry on with this,
51:06your mum and me, we'll be right behind you.
51:11Go on, Ruby.
51:25They pass you round like a ball.
51:30They, like, get your number,
51:33and then there's, like, 50 people you don't know
51:37who are ringing you.
51:38What do you mean?
51:41They pass you round like a ball, Ruby?
51:48They'd be in a flat,
51:50in, like, a massive circle.
51:54And then they'd put the white girl in the middle,
51:57and you'd get sent off of one of them,
51:59and then you'd come back and, like, get passed and passed again.
52:04And where was the flat?
52:05They weren't one.
52:08They were loads.
52:10I didn't feel anything.
52:15Why do you think you felt like that?
52:18Because it had been going on for so long.
52:20It hurt.
52:22Because I didn't want to do it.
52:24And I'd only had sex, like, a couple of times before that as well.
52:26Say again, sorry.
52:27Um...
52:29Because I'd only had sex, like, a couple of times before that as well.
52:33Say again, sorry.
52:36Um...
52:38Because I'd only had sex, like, a couple of times before that.
52:41And we thought that he was a boyfriend.
52:44So what did you think was going to happen when he picked you up?
52:45I didn't actually know how he was taking us to have sex.
52:47What was she doing?
52:49Oh, I tried to move.
52:51But I just gave up.
52:53Because what's the point in trying?
52:54The problem is the witness, Holly Winchell.
52:55She was seen as unreliable then.
52:56And arguably, she's even less likely to have sex.
52:57What did you think was going to happen when he picked you up?
52:59What did you think was going to happen when he picked you up?
53:01I didn't actually know how he was taking us to have sex.
53:03What was she doing?
53:05Oh, I tried to move.
53:07But I just gave up.
53:09Because what's the point in trying?
53:13The problem is the witness, Holly Winchell.
53:16She was seen as unreliable then.
53:18And arguably, she's even less likely to convince a jury now,
53:21given the trouble she's had in the meantime.
53:23Chaotic.
53:25Chaotic.
53:27That's exactly the kind of person who's affected by this crime.
53:29The girl that no-one's looking out for,
53:30who's on the streets at night, out of control of the parents.
53:34That quality made her a victim in the first place.
53:36Agreed.
53:38So, what's the point in trying?
53:39That quality made her a victim in the first place.
53:42Agreed.
53:43So, if it's also the quality that keeps her out of the witness box,
53:45isn't she doubly damned?
53:47But to be ultra-pragmatic for a moment,
53:49what is the point in subjecting a girl like Holly to a trial
53:54if a jury is not going to believe she's telling the truth?
53:57If a jury's not going to believe her, why are we making that assumption?
54:02I watched her interviews.
54:05And I believed her.
54:06And in court, how do we deal with the fact that it's on record that we didn't believe her?
54:14We put our hand up.
54:17And we say we got it wrong.
54:21It went well.
54:23CPS have agreed the charges we want to go for in respect of Ruby.
54:27Really good work, Maggie.
54:28Well done.
54:29And the Chief Prosecutor himself has given us the green light on Holly.
54:32We're going to trial.
54:33Emily.
54:34Can I have a word?
54:35Of course.
54:36It's about Amber.
54:37Look, I'm sorry Maggie, but we cannot put her in a witness box.
54:38No.
54:39I don't believe it.
54:40No.
54:41I don't believe it.
54:42No.
54:43She's just too volatile.
54:44She's been through what the other girls have gone through.
54:45And more.
54:46I know.
54:47But a jury.
54:48A jury can see a damaged person when there's one in front of them.
54:49But she will not go down well with the judge.
54:50I know.
54:51I know.
54:52I know.
54:53I know.
54:54I know.
54:55I know.
54:56I know.
54:57But a jury.
54:58A jury can see a damaged person when there's one in front of them.
55:01But she will not go down well with the jury.
55:02So, Holly's the right kind of victim, but Amber, isn't this the kind of attitude towards
55:08young girls that created this mess in the first place?
55:11This is not a value judgement.
55:27It's just a statement of fact about what the legal system demands.
55:32about what the legal system demands we need to be strategic about calling
55:39witnesses so we can get those convictions we cannot have two kids
55:43contradicting and blaming each other the jury's heads will pop and we will go
55:47away with nothing let's credit the jury with some intelligence both of these
55:51girls were victims Amber was the kind of kid whose basic human needs and warmth
55:58shelter food drink were being met by a kebab shop and if she was in charge if
56:04if she was getting the other girls to dish out blowjobs it was so that she
56:07didn't have to do them all herself Maggie stop it you're getting too emotional
56:11yeah but isn't that exactly why I was put on this job because I'm older I'm a mom
56:15I'm a grand oh I'm so bloody domestic the girls will forget that I'm a copper and
56:19they'll trust me and they'll open up to me and that's exactly what Amber did do you
56:24know what it cost her to do that and for what so that I can go back to her and
56:27say no one's going to court for what they did to you because you're coarse and
56:31and you swear and you're unsympathetic Sunday guaranteed that this wouldn't
56:35happen again it is the job of the CPS to decide what we present at trial not
56:46everybody gets their day in court Maggie they're not using Amber but they're
56:49going to use Ruby I'm not using anyone
56:56nine men have been charged over allegations of grooming and committing
57:17sexual activity with teenage girls in Rockstown the men have been charged with
57:22defences including rape paying for the sexual services of a child trafficking a
57:27child and controlling child prostitution going back to 2008 should be at our med you
57:32are charged with conspiracy to have sexual activity with a child conspiring with
57:37others to sexually touch a child multiple counts of trafficking multiple counts of
57:42rape nine not guilty please which means nine cross-examinations which means nine
57:50different barristers telling these girls that every word they're saying is a lie
57:53are they up to it
57:57innocent white victims dark-skinned abusers
58:04it's uncomfortable isn't it the whole bloody country is waiting on this trial
58:09and she's up there having a lying
58:11where is she
58:13how dare you show your faith here again
58:17if they didn't want me to be a witness why did they like beg me to do it in the first place
58:20this incident did not happen did it Holly
58:23yeah it did
58:24it was me you trusted it was me you poured your heart out to
58:29and I'm sorry
58:30you're just going to carry on doing what you've been doing for years
58:33telling the truth
58:34three girls concludes tomorrow night at nine on bbc one
58:41you
58:52you
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