- 3 months ago
The 2025 Short Film Showcase filmmakers sat down with THR's Brande Victorian for a discussion about their films in a THR Q&A powered by Vision Media.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00:00Hello and welcome to THR Presents Short Film Showcase. I'm Brady Victorian and I'm joined
00:00:09today by five early awards favorites. Thank you all so much for being here and let's get started
00:00:15with director Andre Hayoto Saito and actress Melissa Uihara of Amarilla, the story of the
00:00:20emotional and seemingly invisible struggles of a Japanese Brazilian teenager. Thank you both so
00:00:26much for being started with you. Amarilla, it's the third part of your trilogy of short films
00:00:31exploring your Japanese ancestry and you specifically called this film an open scar of
00:00:36the Japanese Brazilian people living in the country with the largest Japanese community
00:00:40outside of Japan. How did you develop this specific narrative and why the 1998 World Cup
00:00:47as the backdrop for this film? Thank you Brent for hosting us. I'm here with Melissa Uihara
00:00:56she is at the English school, right Melissa? So you're gonna practice here with us. So,
00:01:04so 1998 brand is when I was 14 years old, the age of the protagonist, it was 1998 and I was
00:01:14a fanatic soccer fanatic and I used to use soccer as a tool to belong to the Brazilian identity or what
00:01:30it's called the Brazilian identity you know. So I was 14 at that period and I was always struggling a lot
00:01:38feeling like a foreigner outside of my house and at the same time inside my house as a third Japanese
00:01:47Brazilian generation. I was always denying actually my origins and I did and I've denied it for for more
00:01:59than 30 years of my life. So I think this process of investigating my roots and to shoot films uh
00:02:10about my ancestrality and about my my interplace like to Japanese to be Brazilian to Brazilian to be Japanese
00:02:18was a way to express myself to express my pains my you know uh living experiences and I think through
00:02:29Amarela the third part of the trilogy uh I could really make uh like a yell for representation
00:02:38or uh yeah for identity and belonging which is something that the non-belonging feeling is very
00:02:46common for the Asian Brazilian community and for of course many uh diasporas around the world you know.
00:02:53Yeah absolutely and Melissa I'm curious for you what drew you to the role of Erica and did you feel
00:02:59that kind of personal connection um as well that Andre kind of speaks to? Yeah no absolutely I mean um
00:03:08Erica is my first um role as an actress so it's really crazy to actually um think that we're we've
00:03:20came so far like in this journey and um I I feel like uh the first time I saw the script and all uh that
00:03:32just made me like realize um how important this kind of representation is for us Asian Brazilians and um it
00:03:44really I I feel like it really touched me uh in some plays that I didn't know was like empty before
00:03:54so that was something that just um made me inspired to try and play Erica even though I had never done
00:04:04anything like it before so I'm glad and she and she was she was 13 when we shot the film she was 13 and well
00:04:14she was brilliant and embodied I think the the uh a pain of a whole an entire community.
00:04:25Absolutely yes and that's exactly what I wanted to speak to you know for you Andre what let you know
00:04:30Melissa was right even you know taking a chance on someone's first film role which you were incredible
00:04:35in um you know how did you know she could pull this off?
00:04:38It was love at first sight you know like director's uh intuition uh we tested actually hundreds of girls
00:04:52uh and it was very difficult to find and when I saw Melissa hitting the mochi you know and in the
00:05:02audition test I was really oh my god there is so much uh emotion contained in this body and so I could
00:05:10really feel it so it was intuition and and this crazy incredible match that we had like really fast yeah
00:05:20I think it's in the production notes and you might say Andre where um Erica is described as a dormant
00:05:26volcano um and I feel like we see that especially in that final scene um in the kitchen where
00:05:32you know the emotion is just being held back and eventually she starts crying I would love if
00:05:37you could both talk about the process what did you talk about behind the scenes you know how many
00:05:42takes what are you communicating in that scene? You can you can tell Melissa first okay I'll be glad to hear
00:05:53so it was actually a pretty crazy experience like I feel like I've never done anything
00:05:59um similar um similar to that before and um um to be honest I think we recorded like
00:06:08probably like more than 15 times because um we actually had an idea of what the scene should look like at
00:06:19first but then uh we noticed uh a single and little detail about the scene that we felt like it was missing
00:06:29and then we had to record it all again so it was really crazy and I remember that I used to like
00:06:36lock myself in a room in the house we were recording in and just like put on my earphone my
00:06:44my airpods and then just like listen to lots of like sad songs to just try to like get into the
00:06:53the feeling of the of my character so it was um really insane and we also shot the scene in just one
00:07:05take so it's a really long scene and that was also something really difficult but it was just amazing
00:07:12it was yeah yeah it was it was an intense choreography and the majority of the of the crew uh was uh
00:07:23asian brazilians right so uh it was really beautiful to see each other on the set and and and and seeing
00:07:33like our stories like being actually so uh it was a really intense day it was uh a day a day of shooting
00:07:45just for this scene it's a long take and it was beautiful that uh before lunch we we had uh shot like
00:07:53seven times and melissa cried in every shot you know it was really beautiful and we were very like
00:08:02touched you know by the scene but when we were to have lunch i was like we we're not there yet
00:08:10and i don't know why when we got back uh from lunch the dop a japanese brazilian uh dop elcio nagamine he
00:08:20said you know what i realized that my mom would kill me if i would do mochi after uh you know getting
00:08:30back from the street and without washing my hands and then we were like oh my gosh we we miss it of course
00:08:39she she needs to to wash her hands and then the the dancing choreography was much better you know with
00:08:47this simple detail uh who you know was perceived in a very subtle thing uh from a japanese brazilian guy
00:08:57so it was really beautiful and when we uh finished um we called melissa and we give uh gave her a huge
00:09:08applause telling that it was like a pain for uh for many generations that she was like just you know releasing
00:09:15yeah and i'm so glad you brought up about the crew because i did want to talk about you know everyone
00:09:21predominantly being of a japanese brazilian descent and i'm curious you know did they work on the prior
00:09:27two films and you know have they spoken to you about what opportunities like your work has created for
00:09:32them you know as artists um you know in cinema i think it's a community uh that it's like uh growing
00:09:43and getting to understand and learn how to work together you know like the first and second short
00:09:50films uh one i did in in in japan and the second with my family so it's always like something that grows
00:09:58very uh slow uh but at the same time in recent years asians brazilians are getting the braveness
00:10:10to to talk about races uh towards uh yellow asian asian brazilian people and and i feel that this
00:10:19community is getting bigger like and it's not only film it's like you know art and and we are yeah
00:10:27getting in touch and creating groups and creating immersions and creating uh groups of study and
00:10:33research and we start we're starting out to talk more and it's been a huge relief collective uh
00:10:41healing and release good but lastly you know melissa i want to know if you are going to continue to pursue
00:10:49you know acting after this experience um and then also andre i believe yellow chrysanthemum will be your
00:10:54next project and could you talk about that a bit melissa yeah no um i absolutely uh feel like
00:11:07continue acting i think this project has changed me like for good and it's really special that um i got to
00:11:17uh live this experience and it was definitely one of the best in my entire life so i think um i really
00:11:27feel like continue acting and so i think um i really feel like continue acting and doing um this part of me
00:11:40that i didn't know until i got to try it but it definitely yeah i i would love to yeah
00:11:51she she recently was called by a major brazilian channel well just a spoiler to to make an addition
00:11:58and well that's a good news and about and regarding yellow chrysanthemum it's uh our feature film actually
00:12:05amarela was a proof of concept for the feature film but we weren't expecting that we you know the film
00:12:14track has traveled more than 35 countries more than 100 festivals so it was a huge journey uh
00:12:24so this proof of concept was really uh a success it was it was you know far beyond that we
00:12:32had never imagined uh so uh that's like a a slice of what is coming next and now we have like 50 percent
00:12:43of the the the funds raised and we are we expect to shoot it uh the next year so fingers crossed so
00:12:52so we can see uh melissa in a feature uh soon yes and hopefully you'll come back and chat with us
00:12:59thank you so much i appreciate your time and congratulations thank you so much brand and
00:13:07everybody take care and now we are joined by director gabriel novice of the film alice about
00:13:13a trans woman who comes into her identity and finds community following the death of her father thank you
00:13:19so much uh for being here with us i would love to start um with how you met alice and what made you want
00:13:25to tell her story of course um i grew up in the same apartment building as her um even though we're
00:13:33not friends at a young age because she was much younger than me um both of her fathers were really
00:13:39close to each other which led me to event eventually start getting closer to her father as well we'll go
00:13:44surfing together on the weekends so i i i grew up really close to her father and i kind of saw her growing
00:13:52up as well so she's always she has always been in my life for some reason which is very interesting
00:13:58yeah and you know it was jarring um i guess for me as an american to hear the statistic that brazil
00:14:04kills the most trans people um in the world i'm curious you know was alice hesitant at all
00:14:10to be the subject of a film in this way and what ultimately made them say yes
00:14:14yes yes of course it's it is true sadly it is true and um um um just having a two-hour conversation
00:14:23with alice close friend mia which happens to also be a trans woman last night about that um and
00:14:30it is every the thing is every exposition is dangerous because it's a dangerous country to be but
00:14:40people have to leave and that's the whole point of the film we want to make sure that she has
00:14:44normal life like everyone else because she's a normal person like everyone else so at the same
00:14:48time that you know the more exposition the more people will notice you uh we want her to have a
00:14:53free life too and do normal things everyone does and that's the whole point of the film to really show
00:14:57that people should be who they are and that's okay so it's it's it's it's an important project so
00:15:04yes she she wanted to be in the film okay and when did you formally start working on it
00:15:09of course i um so like i mentioned i kind of watched her growing up and i was really close
00:15:15to her father she was much younger than me and then i moved to college later probably 15 years
00:15:20later i came back home in brazil and i saw her at a bar she was hanging out with a few mutual friends
00:15:25i i believe she was holding a skateboard under her arm and i was instantly amazed by just her looks and how
00:15:32beautiful she was she was very stylish and i love fashion i love people that are creative and certain in
00:15:37their own way and i felt that um she had something to tell she had a story to tell um we started a
00:15:45conversation we started chatting about her life what went on in the past like 10 plus years um she
00:15:51opened up about her father and and i started getting a little bit closer to her really learning from her
00:15:56understanding more about her life and that's when the story started to develop you know i found out that
00:16:03i wasn't feeling really comfortable being in the water i started my career as a surf film director i
00:16:09started documenting surfing and surfers and and and and and this part even though it seems like this
00:16:15peace and love very loving place it is not there's a very unhealthy there's a we need to change it so i wanted
00:16:23to bring alice back to the water i wanted to bring her back to the water and i wanted to create some sort of
00:16:29safe environment where she could share a little bit of who she is how beautiful she is how creative
00:16:34she is and her vision on life i love that you brought up um your past you know doing the surf
00:16:41directing because uh that scene at the end is so beautiful and i thought that must have been so hard
00:16:46to capture but you were already kind of a pro at that i imagine but can you talk through that process a bit
00:16:53of course that was my favorite moment in the film actually just being the water with her
00:16:57the ocean has been a special place to me since forever and i know the ocean it is a place for
00:17:03healing so i wanted to bring her back to the ocean where she can find peace and heal from everything
00:17:08the society has been putting on her so um but in my opinion was probably the most beautiful and
00:17:14interesting exciting surfing story i have ever documented and i've worked with a lot of pro surfers
00:17:19from olympic gold meadows and uh and i was obsessed with the idea of bringing her back to the water
00:17:25so i'm glad it worked out it was a really fun day we we got to you know to experience a beautiful
00:17:31sunset and um yeah just the most beautiful surfing story we could ever find it yeah and to that point
00:17:38you know there's such a cinematic feature like quality to the film you're almost not sure it's a
00:17:44documentary you know as it starts with the reenactments i mean the music as well how did you decide
00:17:49on the presentation and what kind of went into including some of those other elements
00:17:55of course even though it's a documentary i wanted to break stereotypes the whole point of the film is
00:18:00that people should not be put in a box that's what she says at least she says that at the end you know
00:18:04there's a quote by her and uh i want to i didn't want this to look like one thing but rather i wanted
00:18:10this to look like everything i wanted to be free to experiment and then to and to fill it out
00:18:15like we decided me and my dp that we're going to be very experimental and that we're going to try
00:18:21new things so we wanted we wanted to experiment with the language on which we're going to tell
00:18:25this story um let me know that the aspect ratio of the film changed as she evolves as she you know
00:18:31claims her place on earth when she says her you know really like reassuring referring hey i'm alice
00:18:38and no one's going to take this away from me the aspect ratio of the film changes almost as if she's
00:18:42inviting us to her world the camera goes upside down at moments to try to reflect her perspective
00:18:48on that specific situation in her life when her mother was um you know making her go to the church
00:18:53which which was back then an environment that had nothing to do with her beliefs she's she's she's
00:19:00she's open to to to ideas she's she's a creative person so i wanted to the film to reflect that so
00:19:06that's why there's a little bit of everything there yeah and how long did this project take from
00:19:12start to finish we started talking um i think a year to prior to shooting it was very the place
00:19:20i come from in brazil in the northeast we don't have so much support this film has been a dream
00:19:25of mine for the past two years until we finally got to the point where we raised some money we all kind
00:19:29of put money into this and and um we got to a place where we found that we had a little something to
00:19:36share and then that's when we started shooting and then obviously after shooting the whole post
00:19:40production which took ages because um i was really concerned not concerned but really wanted to make
00:19:47sure that we write a fine tone to tell her story a tone that would be optimistic a tone that would share
00:19:52joy and light and and and and really normalize minorities you know want people to see alice and and
00:20:00see another person like anyone else and so we really wanted to make sure that she's seen the right way
00:20:05she's great she's beautiful and and people believe this experience with a very optimistic hopeful um
00:20:12feeling about the world because you know there's a lot of bad things going on right now and i'm kind of
00:20:18fed up about being sad honestly yeah same um tell me uh when you showed alice the finished product
00:20:28um and what was her reaction yeah it was very nice it was a little back and forth because you know i
00:20:33think it's it's it's a very vulnerable place for her to be you know exposing herself and and especially
00:20:40seeing herself in front of a camera like that and um it must be really hard i'm not sure if i will be
00:20:45able to do that so the main thing that i've been learning with this project is empathy and it takes forever
00:20:51because i will never understand her pain even though i try even though i try to like do research
00:20:56and and and start conversations and talk to other members of the community um the trans community
00:21:03it's it's it's hard i will never understand so empathy plays a big role in showing a project like
00:21:08this to someone that's so vulnerable on camera but at the same time it's a great opportunity for us to
00:21:13highlight trans stories and see diversity on screen and and and we need that the world needs that you know
00:21:18again we need to normalize that we need to make sure this is normal that we need to see more trans
00:21:24trans trans women on the big screen you know that's the whole point so um yeah i think she we
00:21:30had a little back and forth just some ideas but overall she was she was happy with the final outcome
00:21:35and and i think we got to through a film that the works and it's kind of cute yeah and you know to
00:21:41the point of you know normalizing and representation what has been the response from the larger film
00:21:46community in brazil you know from audiences who who you screened it for of course we have been trying
00:21:52to screen a very diverse range of um audiences um we have obviously started this whole project
00:21:59this whole premiere film and uh at hot dogs in toronto which is a very documentary center um festival
00:22:06we won best national shortness so uh we qualified for an academy consideration so uh we have been doing um
00:22:12um screening the film during some surfing festivals and i think we just won like three awards at three
00:22:20different surfing festivals the biggest ones for best national short so that was a very good response
00:22:24because i was really nervous about showing this film to the surfing community because you know i've
00:22:30i've seen horrible things as a surfer i've seen things going wrong going on around me i've seen people
00:22:37treating other people badly in the water so i was really not sure they're going to accept this film and
00:22:42apparently they are it's touching them somehow so so that was kind of my job as a surf film director
00:22:48to communicate with people that have been listening to me for the past 15 years yeah well congratulations
00:22:55on a job well done and thank you um so much for being here with us and sharing your process
00:23:00yes of course i'm very grateful for being here as well thank you so much thank you take care
00:23:06and next we are joined here by director eros yao and pianist bishara haroni and yaron kohlberg of the
00:23:12film amal which chronicles the collaboration between the palestinian and israeli virtual souls
00:23:18thank you all so much for being here with us um eros i want to start with you you know when did you
00:23:24learn of yaron and bishara and what made you want to make a film about their story um okay in 2023 i was
00:23:31involved with the piano restoration project and followed by uh concert production by using this
00:23:39restored historical instrument um so i met bishara and ron through uh this concert production
00:23:46um soon after i know them personally i feel like their story is really extraordinary i mean something
00:23:53special there um with their relationship so i would like to uh take this opportunity to dig deeper into
00:24:00uh their story so i uh went to uh visit their family their hometown just to you know try to find
00:24:10more uh story about their background and uh instantly i thought though this could be a independent film
00:24:17um in a very special perspective and i'm curious for you uh bishara and yaron you know what was your
00:24:25reaction when arrows first through the idea you know of a documentary out there was it an immediate yes
00:24:30for you both had you been approached by other filmmakers in the past well you want to answer
00:24:37sure um so um yes so first of all i mean it was uh thank you for so much for having us uh and uh
00:24:44yeah actually we have been approached by several documentaries uh but say i think that when eros
00:24:50approached and especially when uh we got to meet him in person and actually talk with him we understood
00:24:56that he has a really and also i've seen some of his past work we've really understood that we have
00:25:01uh a real artist here with us and somebody that really fit what we're trying to to sort of like
00:25:07uh to bring and felt very very comfortable because as we all know the you know the topic where you know
00:25:13where which a lot of people can talk about in connection to the duo is a very very sensitive one so it was
00:25:18extremely important for us as somebody that has that kind of understanding and the delicacy to really bring it up
00:25:24up in the best way possible in a very very uh delicate and sincere way uh it was really really
00:25:31going to be uh out there you know when the movie's out because you never know in the documentary and i
00:25:36think that pshara and i couldn't be happier uh and more satisfied with the way that eros has and and
00:25:43the team has done uh the work around that movie and i think it's a it's a pretty beautiful uh you know film to
00:25:49watch absolutely yeah yeah for you uh well in the beginning i was uh i mean i i i was afraid a bit
00:26:00because i'm i'm when when eros first approached me uh i told him look i'm in the healing process with
00:26:09myself i'm trying to resolve our my inner conflicts and i don't want to do anything with like negative
00:26:16energy or something that is like talk about politics or we want only positive energy and
00:26:24tell any story you want through the music me and your own and he was like exactly in the same frequency
00:26:31of us and he understood everything and he that's what he did in the movie and that's actually first
00:26:37time i watched the movie i i was very emotional and i cried myself because it was i mean the way he built
00:26:44it and uh and there is no like nothing political no word of judgment and still the movie is so with so
00:26:53much dramatic and tension and it met like emotions that it made me cry and actually it it's it changed
00:27:00my definition of hope the movie itself yeah we realized that when i hope for something i actually
00:27:08imagine imagine imagine imagine it when i hope i imagine it and in order to achieve or to to make
00:27:16something i have to imagine it first and this is what the movie is all about and and we could see it
00:27:24also in the reactions of the screenings of the people were all emotions and the most common comment is
00:27:30like that they were inspired and left the movie with a lot of hope so yeah yeah and eros i would
00:27:38love if you could speak to you know finding that tone i thought it was very important you know that
00:27:44both yaron and bashar talk about you know palestinian israeli conflict is always in the backdrop of your
00:27:49lives um and so it's woven in but not the focal point um you know to bashar's point how did you you
00:27:55know find that balance um i mean first of all this is uh uh i i use this as like a background so like
00:28:05we all know like what's going on there we hear from the news every day and um um i feel like you know
00:28:12as like someone who is in the us all this uh news that you heard kind of like you know been through the
00:28:18the filters of the media um so i just want to use like a different um perspective like a human story
00:28:26like yeah this is what it is this reality out there but how musicians grow out of this so that's really
00:28:33is my focus i mean um it's just it is a a perspective that we like really to see it
00:28:41yeah through like a lens of a human a personal story yeah and uh bashar told us his reaction
00:28:48yaron i'm curious you know how did you respond when you first saw the finished film yeah i was
00:28:53absolutely also i mean the feeling was completely mutual and uh also among everybody that that really
00:28:59uh is around and people who know us and also people who don't know us i mean i think that everybody
00:29:04for exactly the same reasons was very very thrilled and i think that people feel that they need this at
00:29:10this moment because we see so many horrible things happening in our world and you know in particular of
00:29:17course around the conflict and everything that comes from the area that we are from and to bring
00:29:23maybe some kind of story like that and we know you know we're only musicians uh we play piano you know
00:29:29we don't aspire to i mean really this is not some of the things are not under our control but we can
00:29:37through our personal story i mean there's a very very deep friendship that basha and i have
00:29:42for almost for i think more than 20 years now and we've been playing together and now we're also
00:29:47very active again as duo amal uh we are performing we have many performances coming up and i think just
00:29:53bringing that kind of story uh really through a film it also really really encouraged us to be
00:29:59you know think even forward about what kind of things can we do what kind of contribution can we
00:30:03make as musicians to just make the world and especially what we're seeing right now just a tiny bit better
00:30:09yeah and i'm curious what process um were you all being filmed you know for this and i'm curious
00:30:16you know as being pianists and performers were you able to relax in front of the cameras right away
00:30:21you know did it feel natural and comfortable for you or was it a challenge
00:30:24if for me personally it's a bit a challenge i i'm not used to the camera um however i try to to be
00:30:36myself authentic as possible and um and just with with the time it it becomes easier it's like also in
00:30:44the concerts when we first perform usually in the beginning we have some kind of butterflies but the
00:30:52the more you play you feel better yeah yeah i would i would say the same i mean obviously
00:31:00we have a lot of experience performing so we're kind of used to being in the spotlight i think
00:31:05a documentary is a little bit of a different kind of spotlight yeah because uh because we know that
00:31:11what we say could of course be interpreted in a certain way and and it's sort of like just like
00:31:16a little bit of a different setting uh and everything and we uh i think that some parts of the
00:31:21movie i mean it didn't there was not always a lot of time for the interview parts we knew that we had
00:31:26to sort of like you know but i think that from the start we were extremely natural uh at least i can
00:31:31speak for for myself you know that that there was something really about the the crew that made it
00:31:36extremely comfortable for us to be uh ourselves yeah and did you expect the film to come out during
00:31:44this time can you talk about just release timing um and you know conversations that have been
00:31:48sparked from screenings that you've had yeah um the releasing time i mean we don't have any plan
00:31:54actually so we when we filmed it i mean that's like right after the concert and i took the opportunity
00:32:00to went to their hometown and then i came back editing just everything just like really followed
00:32:05the flow i mean it just happened to be came out at this perfect timing um yeah i think it just you
00:32:12know there's a fate in there yeah also i think i mean remarkable to have each your families you
00:32:19know be a part of this which they also seem very open um which i imagine maybe eros is a testament you
00:32:24know to your approach how did you kind of you know win over families or earn their trust i would
00:32:29say you know to kind of share their story as well yeah yeah definitely i mean that was like amazing
00:32:35amazing experience that that i got to meet with their family especially um i think i i i remember
00:32:42like a moment that i was interviewed pashar's father i was like you know tearing behind the monitors like
00:32:49i i can imagine all the music around i can already have the uh finished product right in front of me you
00:32:56know it's really touching and moving um and and they gave me a lot of good material that i
00:33:03can like make this you know film um otherwise they wouldn't have a film you know we're really
00:33:10thankful yeah but sure what did your family share with you you know about the finished film i think we
00:33:17are we were all surprised actually eros is very modest he did a fantastic job and he's like i i wasn't i
00:33:26was very curious to watch the movie because i i was thinking most of the documentaries especially
00:33:32with our backgrounds is like they need a lot of you know news materials and and we didn't
00:33:38give that and what he did with the movie starting even with the split screen and the white and black
00:33:46and then they will i don't want to ruin it for the viewers like i i really recommend to watch it instead
00:33:52of talking about it i was like really fascinated from the beginning to till the end with my family
00:33:58watching it they all loved it so i didn't expect to love my own self in the documentary movie so
00:34:09well lastly as you said we don't want to ruin it but i am curious you know seeing early reactions
00:34:15um you know and as yaron you spoke to you know this has inspired you know your work together and
00:34:20thinking about other things you know what are your hopes um for what might come from this project are we
00:34:24thinking about a feature length version you know what might be next for all of you yeah well first
00:34:30of all i mean this was i think an opportunity for us to to really i mean with eros as approach to really
00:34:37have just like uh you know a glimpse into our lives uh and not only our lives but really something for us
00:34:43to say because you know especially a little bit from my perspective i'm not very happy necessarily about
00:34:50what leaders do uh and what uh you know and and this is sort of like a sort of like an opportunity
00:34:57to just maybe bring something that is again we're only pianists but something that is a little bit
00:35:02kind of like different than that and all we want to do is continue with that kind of energy um we will
00:35:09we don't yet have a concrete plan for making a large sort of like a longer movie i mean this is certainly
00:35:14like something we would consider but basha and i have a also and in in collaboration also with a
00:35:20with the production team like various plans about uh also about broadcasting and uh you know showing
00:35:25the movie in different places and of course a lot around performance uh and we now have a lot of
00:35:31sort of like new videos that we've we've been doing also in a very very similar direction very very
00:35:36sort of like artistic that try to bring our story and primarily our music amazing well thank you all so
00:35:43much for being here with us um congratulations on the incredible film and thank you for your time
00:35:48thank you very much and up next we have with us director eden wormfield dr rakel hillier and nick
00:35:54five oaks of the film classroom four which follows the experience of incarcerated students and those from
00:35:59a nearby college who are taught about the history of crime and punishment in the u.s inside of a prison
00:36:05thank you all so much for being here with us um eden i want to start with you you know dr hillier
00:36:11has been teaching the history of crime and punishment uh since 2012 when did you first
00:36:16learn of her in her work um and decide you wanted to do a documentary thank you so much for that
00:36:21question so um dr hillier and i met when we were 11 years old in seventh grade and i have been learning
00:36:30from her and alongside her really my whole life and i know her extraordinary gift as a teacher
00:36:36because i'm her friend and i learned from her in the ways that i do but when she became a college
00:36:43professor she shared a lot about her experiences and then when she did this inside out prison exchange
00:36:49training program which allowed her to teach these kinds of classes i not only heard about the training
00:36:55but over the last decade plus i've heard about the magic that happens in those rooms
00:37:00and i always dreamed that maybe there could be a camera documenting and things aligned in the spring
00:37:08of 2023 for us to bring cameras in and at that time we didn't actually know we would make a film we um
00:37:16wanted to document it for archival purposes and because it's so hard to communicate with people
00:37:22on the inside it's not actually possible at all uh you can't reach them they don't have the internet
00:37:27etc etc there's no phone and so we wanted to just be there with the camera document what was happening
00:37:36and rako can talk about the purpose of that but we gathered some seed money from our community from
00:37:42growing up and that's what allowed us to get started with what became classroom four amazing thank
00:37:48you and i would love uh dr hillier if you could talk about you know the intention behind that um
00:37:53and wanting to document you know this experience thank you yes it's such a special class and it's
00:37:59such a special experience for everyone in the room and including me um the mission of the inside out
00:38:06prison exchange is to bring uh free students together with incarcerated students to learn alongside and
00:38:14from each other as equals as peers integrated together in the same class studying the same topic
00:38:20um there are inside out classes on many different topics mine happens to be on the history of crime
00:38:26and punishment i'm a historian and that became one of my specialties in part thanks to this class
00:38:33but the pedagogy that is to say the method of teaching really depends on my seeing myself more as
00:38:39a facilitator of an encounter and the learning really happens not only through the texts that we read
00:38:46together um and historical episodes that we grapple with but also just from um seeing each other um as
00:38:56as students as receptacles of of wisdom um people deeply want to listen to each other in that class
00:39:04and in doing so we're breaking down a lot of um social barriers and preconceived notions and um that to me
00:39:12is a very radical act and you know higher education is in many ways a form of replicating hierarchies and
00:39:19so in that class we have a chance to really break that down in in in a in a truly um fundamental way where
00:39:26we um reconsider what can be known and who gets to know it absolutely um and nick i want to come to you
00:39:36next you know as a participant when this opportunity kind of came to you you know what was your first
00:39:41reaction and you know was it an immediate yes you want to participate were you hesitant no it was
00:39:46absolutely not it was uh i think joey had said it best in there um he along with uh i and a few others
00:39:58were approached by the superintendent mr hanley who was a huge part of this facilitating this this uh class
00:40:06um and he approached me one day and asked me if i would consider it and at first it was like
00:40:11no i'm not i'm not gonna do this i don't i don't want to set myself up for you know uh you know fear
00:40:20judgment or um you know just putting myself in a position with people who are you know that i i i felt way
00:40:29smarter than me um and um you know it was uh after after doing 16 years i was getting close uh to the gate
00:40:40which um talking with my family uh and after the um encounter with miss hillier uh and uh kind of pre-screening
00:40:51uh really set my mind my mind at ease and i was uh i was i was ready to to try this challenge because
00:41:00i felt like i also needed it for myself to um learn how to communicate again with you know strangers um
00:41:08individuals especially from the outside because all i had in there was my family who i spoke to all the
00:41:15time and you know other other incarcerated individuals who shared a lot of the same stories
00:41:21and backgrounds and things like that so you really weren't you know learning anything anything new
00:41:28yeah yeah um and i'm curious you know i've done some volunteer work at prison so i know kind of how
00:41:34difficult access can be and you know entrance and all that i would love eden if you can kind of talk about
00:41:38getting permission you know to film what that process was like did you film every friday of
00:41:43the 15 weeks um can you kind of go into that a bit yeah thank you um so gaining access was easier than
00:41:51i could have imagined okay it was really based on dr hillier's relationship with the prison there's one
00:41:58administrator there in particular who james hanley who who whom nick mentioned earlier who is very helpful
00:42:04and while we had to go through various protocols that everyone has to go through when you bring
00:42:09equipment into a prison where you're documenting everything and they examine everything and so
00:42:13on and so forth by and large because i have many peers colleagues who've made films inside and i know
00:42:20how challenging it can be this was relatively easy and i the irony is not lost on me that the prison
00:42:25doors were open to us and that's what allowed this to happen um but grateful to reiko for sharing
00:42:32her world and her relationships that's what made it possible yeah yeah absolutely um dr hillier i
00:42:39thought about you know in the film you said i think i cry like every class and i thought i think i would
00:42:43do i think i was crying you know when you said that um i would love if you and nick can both talk about
00:42:50um just the impact you know the experience has had on you and just some of the you know conversations
00:42:55that came up and how they touched you personally um it's it's had a it's it's changed the course of
00:43:04my life it's the most important thing that i do and it's taught me to be a better person um i think being
00:43:10able to you know hold that discomfort and hold people's stories and not necessarily rush in to fix them
00:43:19is actually a lesson that i i feel like i i'm trying to carry in my life i also feel that um having
00:43:27seen people's reactions to the film i'm i've i've really been moved by um the the kinds of people
00:43:34i mean the kinds of remarks people make that go beyond the situation of prison people talk about
00:43:40the importance of vulnerability and the importance of conversation and human connection
00:43:45um i was speaking with someone who suffers from disabilities and um she was very struck by the
00:43:51line that that no one is disposable um so there are all kinds of um sort of values and human practices
00:43:58that that i think that the space of the class allow me and others to rehearse in a way that you know
00:44:05goes beyond um the context of prison yeah and make for you yeah um i i agree with a lot with uh reiko just
00:44:16said um you know it it opened so many doors for me um my um my willingness to reach out and you know
00:44:27communicate with people that she what reiko did for me is something i can never pay back um i am forever
00:44:39uh grateful for the opportunity to actually take this class um the reactions that people have had um
00:44:47the support that people have given me um uh during some of these interviews and and the showings that at
00:44:56at these uh film festivals has been amazing you know and and not feeling um judged uh is a big thing for me
00:45:08because um i believe reiko had mentioned something i well like she was saying you know you are you are not
00:45:18defined by the worst things you've ever done in your life um you know and uh that means a lot
00:45:26um you know i get to go forward i get to move on and i get to you know um help people you know think
00:45:39about you know what they're actually putting tax dollars into um it's it's it's been amazing
00:45:49really i i just i don't know else to explain it other than that well i'm curious when you saw the
00:45:55finished film what was your initial reaction what was your initial reaction and was it what you expected
00:46:00no it was nothing like what i expected because you know at at first it seemed like it was going in a
00:46:07different direction um and the way eden put things together in there um there's enough there to give you
00:46:20an idea as to an idea as to what's going on you know for me it's just like it's i'm always like it
00:46:26could be longer it could be longer um but um you know i uh i definitely cried you know i was definitely
00:46:36emotional um and uh yeah i just i said i mean i'm i'm on cloud nine with this
00:46:45well to that point you know and the last question eden i do want to ask about the edit you know i
00:46:52thought i would watch an eight hour docuseries you know of this how did you get it down to 38 minutes
00:46:58number one um and then are there plans to expand this into something larger thank you um so it was
00:47:06the edit was hard i worked with an incredible editor named laurence larue who's tremendously talented
00:47:14i will say that there are a lot of gems on the editing room floor i mean it was not easy
00:47:21the reason why it is the length that it is lies primarily with the fact that we wanted so much for
00:47:31this to be used in classrooms and seen in communities we want to show it to parole officers
00:47:38we want to show it to legislators we want it anywhere and anyone who's willing to sit for
00:47:45just under 40 minutes and um i have made a lot of social issue films and i that are feature length and i
00:47:53feel like increasingly in the time we're in people are not taking that space for longer
00:48:01and certainly in the classroom with this emphasis toward teaching toward a test and so on and so
00:48:05forth on the high school level it's not possible even to get it into classrooms at a longer length
00:48:11so i i didn't want to take the risk of that um i won't lie that there's a lot of material i would
00:48:18love to work with it more i don't have any plans at this moment we don't have any funders knocking
00:48:23our door down saying make it longer um but we would happily do that um thanks yeah well thank
00:48:32you all so much i have a million more questions myself but thank you i appreciate your time um and
00:48:38thank you for sharing your story as well thank you brandy thank you thank you and so great to be here
00:48:44thanks a lot thank you and lastly we are joined by director core adana of the film one last round
00:48:50about a husband and wife who debate a difficult decision when one of them is diagnosed with a
00:48:54terminal illness uh core thank you so much for being here with us thank you for having me of course
00:49:00you know this short has sort of a very black mirror-esque um you know quality to it i'm sure
00:49:06people have said that but i'm curious how did the idea for this film come to you well i've always
00:49:11been fascinated with this theme of whether or not the advancement of technology either helps
00:49:18or hinders our ability to connect to each other it's a theme that's cropped up in a lot of things
00:49:23that i've written um i was a writer producer on mr robot the theme was prevalent in that uh more
00:49:30recently i was a writer producer on dune prophecy and the theme was prevalent in that as well and i
00:49:35wanted to do so and also had a lot of heart and really explored some of my own deepest fears and one
00:49:43of the things that i'm most afraid of uh and uh is is not is is uh one of the things i'm most afraid of
00:49:50is the loss of a loved one so it got me thinking about how we deal with grief and how we remember
00:49:59our loved our lost loved ones uh what can you do you can look at old photographs you can look at old
00:50:05home videos you can read archived text messages or emails or letters but it's not
00:50:11the same as having them there and being able to talk to them in a time of need right and uh the most
00:50:19autobiographical part of the film is when i was a child i had an aunt who died of a brain of a brain
00:50:26tumor and it really fractured our entire family uh to a point where you know we haven't really fully
00:50:33been able to recover from it and even to this day when i speak to my aunts or my father or my my cousins
00:50:40the one common thread is oh i wish i could just talk to her i give anything just to be able to
00:50:44talk to her again so that got me thinking like okay what if we were actually able to deliver on that
00:50:50like what if we were able to create a digital ai that could actually do that and uh you couple that
00:50:57with the introduction of a child at the center of the narrative and i think that takes an already
00:51:03difficult decision and makes turns it into a true dilemma because that parent child relationship
00:51:11is so important and that thought of not being in your child's life you know if they're eight years
00:51:18old and you're going to leave i'm sure that weighs heavily on the decision to whether to to make to
00:51:24you know to create this digital um ai version of yourself that you can leave behind for them so all
00:51:28of those things kind of coalesced into um you know me wanting to explore this with this short film
00:51:34yeah and i love you know it's such an interesting take to have boxing kind of be the backdrop of this
00:51:40and even the ultimate you know kind of decision maker how did you make that decision a couple
00:51:45couple of things um i box just as a hobby so i it was something that i thought was fun uh just
00:51:52the motion of it was something that i i wanted to explore and um just the metaphor of fighting for
00:51:59your family and exploring that visually through a boxing or a sparring match was something that was
00:52:06really appealing to me um in the beginning it's more of a meet cute right are the leads are sparring
00:52:13with each other but it's not it's not like they're trying to destroy each other it's more like she's
00:52:18giving him a test and seeing if he's worthy of actually pursuing you know a relationship and he
00:52:24passes the test and i i'm always more interested in these kind of um you know an action sequence that
00:52:32has emotional depth so that original one is i i treat that i treated that first sequence more as
00:52:38a dance and as opposed to a fight so that's just like a courting scene and by the time we we have
00:52:47the second fight the more climactic moonlit fight the stakes are literally life or death right and they're
00:52:54both fighting for their family in a different way he's fighting to preserve his family and keep his family
00:53:00intact and if he wins the match you know he's gonna get to keep as much of his wife as as as as possible
00:53:09right yeah with with the um you know with pursuing treatment and she's fighting for a chance to
00:53:17leave behind some semblance of herself for her eight-year-old daughter so just that that metaphor
00:53:23of fighting for your family but in a way that makes you empathize with both characters so there's not
00:53:30you know there's not a true force i mean there are forces of antagonism but they're forces of
00:53:34antagonism that you can understand and kind of root for um that kind of storytelling always really
00:53:39excites me yeah and you know as you talked about like the moonlit you know kind of fight scene
00:53:44cinematography is such a you know a big factor i think in this film as well as you know the visual
00:53:48effects um that go into the representation of the ripple um you know which renee decides to become can you
00:53:54talk about you know what went into that creation yeah i had i just lucked out i had an incredible
00:54:01cinematographer his name is brian jackson we actually met while working together on mr robot killer eye
00:54:08and we had so many conversations early on about what the visual grammar of this piece was going to be
00:54:15and we decided to have this kind of this ambitious goal of doing a warm to cool tonal shift
00:54:24throughout the entire piece so the beginning of the movie very warm vibrant colors very intimate very
00:54:31like visuals that allow you to fall in love with this family and understand you know what's at stake
00:54:37for them right right and this is reflected through the cinematography it's reflected through the wardrobe
00:54:42choices through the props through the color timing through the shot composition all of it right uh and as
00:54:49the narrative progresses that warmth dissipates a little bit more and more and by the time you're
00:54:55about two-thirds of the way through the the narrative it gets very cool it gets very sterile it gets very
00:55:02machine-like and there's something about matching the arc of renee in her decision to turn herself into a
00:55:11ripple something more robotic something more cold something more calculating right something less human
00:55:17that we were really excited by so i i don't think my depart my department heads were incredible but i
00:55:23think i i put i think i drove everyone crazy with this kind of warm to cool transition and i i think i'm
00:55:30very proud of what i what everyone was able to achieve uh but yeah and and and there's something else that
00:55:36brian brought to it that i loved he gave the script to his daughter to read and the first thing that his
00:55:44daughter said was oh i see a lot of red for renee and we incorporate red somehow and i'm like
00:55:50perfect because that actually falls perfectly in line with this kind of warm to cool tonal shift
00:55:55and it's something that we see like the the color red represents renee and there's a lot of red early
00:56:01in the film yeah it gets more muted and more desaturated and by the end of it there's no red at all
00:56:07and it's something that we even foreshadow with our title card where it's just a lot of red and then it
00:56:11kind of fades into gray just to kind of give you a sense of what you're what you're about to get
00:56:15yeah i'm so glad you said that because you know as i was watching i was like oh it's so like loving
00:56:20and wholesome and then right at the end there's this switch and i'm like where is this going oh
00:56:24it's so unexpected i'm sure you don't want to give too much away but i am curious if you can share
00:56:30you know maybe the genre category you kind of see this falling into yeah you know in feature length
00:56:35there may be any commentary you know you might be it's interesting uh the ending is something that
00:56:39comes up quite often yeah uh and the reason it's there is because i think without it it shades the
00:56:47decision that she made um to be a little bit too positive it provides an answer and i don't want there to
00:56:55be a clear answer and um maybe she's not right maybe his concerns are valid and uh when i think
00:57:04about technology and the way that data mining works and the way that companies um use this data my mind
00:57:10goes to okay now we have a person that's represented by an ai who owns that data and i i you know i just
00:57:20start you go you start going down this track of does it have personhood does it have rights um can it
00:57:25be altered can it be modified uh so i wanted that ending to reflect that okay there is something
00:57:32potentially more nefarious or more sinister at the at the heart of this and for me the feature-length
00:57:39version of it which i just finished writing actually is more of that kind of sci-fi thriller okay um but it
00:57:47is deeply rooted in a core family drama like i i feel very strongly that you need to fall in love
00:57:53with these characters and understand the family before we break the family apart and see how they
00:57:57can navigate this journey of grief so uh the feature-length version of it is like how does a
00:58:03family that's been affected by the the death of the mother um how do they navigate that journey of
00:58:09grief and how do you navigate it with a grief bot like a ripple and uh especially how does that drive
00:58:15a wedge between father and daughter and is that something that they're going to be able to
00:58:18reconcile so that's that's kind of where that the feature goes with it but uh yeah that shift in in
00:58:25tone is just i i felt strongly that if that wasn't there it would just feel like okay she was right
00:58:30um and uh that's that's that's kind of that's kind of why it's there yeah nice you know here's you
00:58:37know as you've shown the film you know what reactions have you gotten so far like how are people
00:58:41um engaging you know it's it's fascinating they're engaging in the exact same way that
00:58:47all of the crew members were engaging with it when they read the script which to me is a is a dream come
00:58:53true because the conversations that i've had that this is brought up with people were uh inevitably it
00:59:00leads to would you do this if you were in the same this this if you were in the same situation
00:59:05would you create a ripple and i get different answers from everyone and no there's no right or
00:59:11wrong answer and so compelling about it yet disturbing about it and i i sense that in people
00:59:20watching the film they have it brings up those similar questions of okay you know if i if i could
00:59:25bring my grandparent back or a parent back even though it's not really them would i do it or if i did
00:59:31have a young child and i was faced with a terminal diagnosis would i would i do this for myself to
00:59:38leave but leave behind some version of myself even though it's not really them um and then it brings up
00:59:43these kind of philosophical questions of what does it mean to be you and what makes you you and uh so
00:59:50it's just fascinating i love talking to people after they they view the film and uh it's it i what's
00:59:58what's what's great about it i don't have i don't have an answer for it i'm not sure how i feel about
01:00:02it uh i i know the the risks uh i know the technological risks of something like this and
01:00:07you know i poured that into the father character but i also like the human stakes and the longing to
01:00:14want to talk to someone um even if it's not them even if you can't really tell the difference there's
01:00:21some comfort there and there's a longing there and and you know maybe it's worth it i i don't know and
01:00:27something that that i i wanted to explore with this and um these are the kinds of conversations
01:00:32that people come up to me after they view the film and it's wonderful i imagine yes well thank you
01:00:36you've given us a lot to think about figure out as well but thank you um so much for being here and
01:00:42sharing your process with us thank you so much thanks for having me of course thank you and thank
01:00:47you all so much for watching this episode of thr presents short film showcase
01:01:03you
Comments