- 7 minutes ago
'Homebound' director Neeraj Ghaywan and stars Ishaan Khatter and Vishal Jethwa sat down with THR's Jordan Mintzer for a discussion about the film in a THR Q&A powered by Vision Media.
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00:00Hello and welcome to THR Presents. I'm Jordan Mintzer, film critic at The Hollywood Reporter.
00:11I'm here today with the director and two lead actors of Homebound.
00:16I wanted to start off right away with a question for Neeraj. I read a little about the film
00:23and one thing that I found really interesting was that you were inspired to make this whole
00:29movie by reading an article in the New York Times. So can you talk a little about that
00:34article and what made you want to take this one article and turn it into an entire film?
00:40This was documented as an open essay and this article, when I first read it, it obviously
00:47made me feel overwhelmed by the grief that these two boys had to suffer. Their true names are
00:55Mohammed Sayyub and Amrit Kumar. They went through a really tough time. But I also saw an opportunity
01:03to base a larger question that we all wanted to ask, at least I wanted to ask for this film
01:10was about the larger cause of how we, for marginalized people around the world, it could be of various
01:18sections. It could be of class, color, creed, or nationality, or sexual minorities, or any of those minorities.
01:26They're always spoken in numbers. You know, this overstatistization and also this abstraction
01:39will not allow us to feel for them. So there was a need to feel behind every number. We need to see
01:46the person, the family, the heart, the love, and all of it. The journey. You know, it was essential
01:53for us to see that. And that is what I use as a base to talk about. And it went on to speak about
02:00the big question that we all sought through this film was about why do migrants leave their homes
02:07in their rural areas? And how, why do they migrate towards cities or different countries or whatever? And
02:13this question led to a whole tapestry of understanding the class structure, the caste structure in India,
02:21the, the obsession with employment, or this, this mad need for employment. All of those questions came in
02:29and to tie into this wonderful message of
02:35of searching for dignity. You know, when, when, when structures deny you of, uh, your existence, when
02:43they don't want you to be seen and heard, uh, this form of connection between these two boys,
02:49these friends, is that metaphor for, for, for, for connection and resistance? Well, what's interesting in
02:56the film is that, you know, yeah, social class and social caste is at the center of almost everything
03:03that happens, you know, to the characters and the decisions they make. And yet at one point, I, I, I
03:09noted that, you know, somebody says, well, the, well, the constitution has banned this, you know,
03:14the constitution has banned the, the, you know, the, in this case, the untouchables cast and their
03:20treatment. But it seems like even if they're, the law is one thing, the way people behave is another.
03:26I felt like that's something you really concentrated on the movie.
03:30You know, the sad part about, uh, caste and if you, another parallel, if you could draw
03:37in terms of, let's say a race, you know, race is visible, but caste isn't. And it's coded in
03:43such minutiae as say the last name. There's a scrutiny around the name, you know, and when
03:51India people ask their names, they try to find out, they try to decipher the caste by the last name.
03:56So surnames are very important. And both these boys are going through this cycle of like, um,
04:02you know, uh, how they are considered, uh, to be from a certain area and they are segregated in their
04:10own village, you know, one a Muslim, one a Dalit. And this is what is the reality of, uh, of many
04:16villages in India. Of course, things have gotten better since the constitution has abolished untouchability
04:21since there has been equal rights, which Dr. Baba Sahib Ambedkar, he brought in, um, you know,
04:26equal opportunities and, uh, affirmative action into play in academia and judiciary and all of these
04:33places. But still there is that the prejudice is still there. You know, the prejudice, prejudice is
04:39still there and the prejudice has now become in the form of like, um, untouchability there is, sadly,
04:45it is still there in some parts of the country. You know, there, you could get, uh, I mean, I don't
04:50want to quote examples, but they're quite stark, uh, like the, the mother who's not allowed to cook in a
04:56village in the school for children because she comes from a certain caste. Uh, those prejudices are there.
05:03And now there is this thing about like, uh, why do these people get affirmative action?
05:11You know, is, is what the upper caste would want to shame you with. That is a new form of,
05:16you know, discrimination that, um, people of my community face. I also from a Dalit community and
05:22this is what you face. So that's the, it is the order of the day. It is the reality of a large part
05:27of India that is mostly not seen through cinema or traditional media. And this was our intent to
05:34bring that up. Um, now Ishan, your character is Muslim. And so he faces a form of religious
05:42discrimination in the film. Uh, you know, and, and as, as Neeraj was saying, even with his name,
05:50as soon as he says his name, people realize, you know, what he is, how did you, you know, how did you
05:55prepare for that role and get into that character when you, when you studied to, to make the film?
06:01Um, thank you for your question, Jordan. Um, I'm very happy to be here. This is a film that is
06:09personally very special to me. Um, and if I can speak for all of us, uh, we're all very proud of it.
06:15Um, as far as your question is concerned, yes, this, that was something that was, um,
06:22um, extremely apparent when I read the script is the kind of struggle to hold on to their identity
06:30that these characters face, not just Shoei, but also Chandan. And that's where the, you know,
06:35intersectionality between their characters kind of occurs. Um, they're, it's as if they're judged
06:43and their destiny is decided before they're even allowed to prove themselves. Um, and that is the
06:49struggle that you see for these characters throughout the film and, and the film is very
06:54much about the spirit that they carry and, and, um, their fight for dignity. Um, so that,
07:01that definitely was a very important aspect of this film, uh, for which we prepared in many ways,
07:07Neeraj, of course, being kind of the catalyst for us to enter these characters. Um,
07:12he had spent three years with this script before either of us even, um, entered it. So,
07:20you know, there was a certain amount of preparation and research that he had already put into it.
07:25So we had that to jump off of as a springboard in the very beginning. The first thing that he gave
07:32us was a book by Dr. B. Adam Baker called Annihilation of Caste, which helped us understand the
07:39historical context, um, of discrimination in our country. Um, after which we did about two and a
07:47half to three months of dialect work to kind of get closer to these characters that come from regions
07:52that are very different from where we are from. Um, and, uh, we also did something that Neeraj likes
07:58to call an immersive, uh, exercise where we, um, we made a trip to Northern India together. And, uh,
08:06we spent about a week visiting villages, uh, interacting with people of certain communities,
08:10um, and just kind of taking on their experiences. And, um, we were struck by the generosity they
08:18showed us. We were fed in their homes. They allowed us into their modest homes. We could sit down and
08:24read our script there and, and it really made it a lived in experience for us. Um, so it's been a very
08:31immersive process for us before we even began shooting this film. And that's really what carried
08:35us through and brought us closer to our characters. Um, and then beyond that, of course, each of us
08:40come with our own individual experiences. And I think what's beautiful about this film is that there is
08:47a universality to the idea of othering. Um, I think everybody in some way or the other has felt
08:54other, you know, because we're all distinct, we all come from our own backgrounds and, um, the world
09:02as we see it today is becoming an increasingly divisive place. And that's where I think this film
09:07becomes very relevant, uh, universally, you know, and, and not just in India. Um, it's, it's like this
09:14story is a conduit to talk about humanity and empathy and the things that we're lacking in society today.
09:21And, uh, that's what makes me really proud of it. And Vishal, your character, you know, he's,
09:27he experiences something different, which is there's, he has a love story in the film as well.
09:33Um, kind of a love story, but I thought what was interesting is it's, it's another question of,
09:40it's almost impossible for Chandon to experience love in a situation where, you know, there's all
09:46these pressure on his character to make money and to, to, to pay for his family. Um, how did you
09:53approach the, you know, that, that, that love aspect of the movie, which is kind of a subplot?
09:58So I think Chandan and Sudha both comes from similar, uh, background, but still the privilege
10:05Sudha has is different and, uh, Chandan has is different. So, uh, I, uh, and the love story,
10:13when we say it is a love story, it is more of a friendship kind of a love story and not typical
10:18love romance story. And, uh, Sudha is a big support system to, to Chandan. Yeah. But, uh,
10:26You mean love story between the two friends?
10:29Love story between the friends? That's what you're saying or like,
10:31No, no, no, no, no. I am saying between them, Sudha and Chandan share the love story,
10:35which is not very, which is not very romantic. And, um, Sudha is, Sudha plays a very, uh,
10:42big support system in Chandan's life. And, uh, but she doesn't understand the circumstances
10:48Chandan is going through. Uh, she is right at her place and Chandan is also right at her place.
10:54Because Sudha has, uh, some kind of privilege, which Chandan doesn't have. And, uh, she's not able to
11:01understand. And there is one point where both of them understand each other's point of view. And
11:06this is the solution. And that's what I think even, um, this film talks about that we have to
11:11understand each other's point of view, even though it is, it differs from, uh, it differs and
11:17it comes from a different place. Um, so this is what our film also talks about, uh, to empathize with
11:25us, the other person, even though he has different, he comes from a different ideology or different
11:31nation or, uh, different background. So yeah, this is how I approached, uh, this character.
11:39Um, also, I mean, there's, so there's that romance and then there's, you know, what we call a bromance.
11:45There's the, the friendship between you guys, your characters, but which is really powerful and
11:51which drives the entire movie, basically. How do you know how to, how do two actors, I don't know if
11:56you knew each other before making this film, how do you, you know, make that friendship
12:01feel so real on screen? Thank you for saying that. I mean, that's been something we've been
12:06hearing, uh, unanimously and, uh, it makes us very, very proud. Uh, and I think it would be wrong not
12:11to first credit, uh, Neeraj, who wrote these characters and wrote this relationship so beautifully,
12:17um, along with Sumitra Roy and Sridhar Dhubay. And, um, I think a large part of it was,
12:25um, of course us approaching our characters individually and fleshing them out, but, um,
12:32Neeraj made it very important. He made it very clear to us in the beginning. He, it was almost
12:37as if he gave us a mandate where he said, I need you guys to be vulnerable with each other. You know,
12:43I don't want you to just have a surface level friendship wherein, you know, you will only share
12:49your, um, triumphs, um, as colleagues, you know, uh, I, I want you to also be able to share your
12:57traumas, um, and be vulnerable with each other. And it really started with that. So it was almost
13:03as if he gave us an exercise to, to do that right off the bat before we even started working on our
13:09individual characters. And, uh, you know, so one fine day right after we did our first read together,
13:16you know, Vishal came over, I made him a coffee, we hung out and we basically drama dumped to each
13:21other. Uh, after which I think there was a level of comfort and intimacy and, um, or just ease,
13:29I would say, you know, we, we were able to lean on each other for the rest of the process.
13:33Um, you know, and we didn't hesitate if, if we had any grievances or even any, um,
13:39any discomfort, we could express it to each other straight away and address it and move on.
13:44Um, um, but all in all, we had a great time because we were on a very happy set. He makes
13:49it a very beautiful set to work on. And that's very rare. Uh, it always starts top down. And as
13:55the leader of the set, Neeraj commands a certain respect for the work that we're doing, but also
14:00he's, he's all for a good time, you know, as, as, um, as profound as some of the stuff we're talking
14:09about in this film was we all had a really great time doing it. And, and I think that's the energy
14:15that translates on screen. Definitely. Um, Neeraj, I'm, I'm curious as, you know, as a director,
14:22it feels like you're very, what's very important to you is a certain level of realism filming in
14:27real locations. You know, there's a factory and there's the homes and there's the streets and the,
14:34all these things is that, you know, did you, and it's different from some of the,
14:39you know, this, the Indian cinema we're used to seeing sometimes in the West.
14:43Um, uh, you know, is that something that's very important to you, the realism of the story and
14:47capturing real locations and places?
14:51See, firstly, I think I, uh, as, as a cineast myself, as a cinephile myself,
14:58I gravitated more towards the cinema varied style of filmmaking. Uh, I'm more like the early Dogme 95,
15:06uh, those moments and those have been my inspiration for a while. Um, I, which is why also shooting this
15:12film was a more exercise in like, um, like my influences, uh, with respect to like what films
15:20I've grown up watching were more of like, say the Dardenne brothers or Ken Loach or, um, any of the
15:26non neorealist, uh, filmmakers that, uh, we know of. So I have derived from those. My palette comes from
15:32there. My approach comes from there because the subject that I choose are people who are mostly not
15:37seen, not heard, and to present them with all their dignity and integrity was essential to me.
15:43To show their, uh, I mean, almost come to it from a more anthropological way of showing these characters.
15:52And secondly, also from the story, which is based on, it was based on a true story.
15:56And the last segment of the film was actually written in the story, right? So, and I didn't want
16:01to make it, um, I wanted to approach it in from a, from a point of view of like life as it happens,
16:08not make it extremely, um, you know, non-linear or play with the form or like make it snazzy or make
16:15it more accessible by infusing a lot of fun songs or whatever. And I wanted it to be seen as it is.
16:22So the penchant for realism has always been my forte in all my career. And with this film specifically,
16:27it had to be, uh, just to keep the authenticity and honesty of these people.
16:32Uh, this is a question for all, any of three of you. Um, you know, what was the hardest sequence,
16:39the hardest thing to shoot in the film, that biggest challenge for you?
16:43Is it for any of us or all of us?
16:46Whoever wants to go first.
16:49So normally, according to me, the toughest scene are the ones which seems very easy, uh, on paper.
17:00So there is one scene where, um, Shoev and Chandran are just, uh, checking their results
17:06and, uh, for their exams. And, um, one of them, uh, gets selected. He passes, he, uh, clears the...
17:14The other one doesn't.
17:15Ha, and the other one doesn't. So in that scene, it was very difficult for me, especially to see the,
17:21the result and change my emotion in the scene. And, uh, for that, I give credit to, um, Ishan,
17:29because he performed in such a great way that, uh, that was a sign of, uh, a sentence called,
17:37acting is all about reacting. So he acted so well, and I could, I was just reacting to what
17:43he was performing. And that helped this scene, that scene to look beautiful on screen and effortless.
17:49Uh, at the same time, for me personally, uh, there's one more scene,
17:54which I lately realized was very difficult for me. That was the first scene I shot for the film,
18:00um, where, um, Chandran comes to a place, um,
18:06recruitment office and, uh, the office, sorry, the officer is there and he puts Chandan in a spot
18:14where he do not have any option to escape. And, uh, he's made feel ashamed of who he is and where
18:23he comes from by his surname. I mean, he asked us all a lot of questions to him. And, uh, that feeling
18:30is so difficult to carry. So that microaggression where you can't just stand up and, um,
18:40return it. Yeah. Uh, take action towards it, respond to it. And at the same time,
18:45you can't keep it with yourself. So that, that moment is very difficult to, um, take it in. And,
18:52uh, it feels so worst. And this is very relatable to each, each one of us, because we all have felt
19:01this in some or the other ways in life that we are put in a spot where we feel this aggression
19:07and we can't do anything about it. So that was also a very difficult scene. Um, because it has,
19:15um, for me, because, um, in both the aspects, we got, that was the first scene I shot for. And at the
19:21same time, it was very difficult. And that scene describes Chandan's journey and his character. So
19:27that is why I feel, I feel that scene was very difficult for me to shoot.
19:30I remember that. Yeah, I, uh, that was day four of shoot and it was day one for you. And, and, uh,
19:36I was there and I remember that. And he's right in, in a way, you know, that scene is the crux of,
19:41uh, Chandan's existence and his struggle through the film, uh, incredible scene. Um, for me,
19:47I would say, I completely agree with Vishal. Uh, normally I've also found that the scenes that are
19:57the most sort of, you know, unassuming scenes that, uh, that end up being deceptively difficult,
20:05you know, the ones that seem easy on the page. Um, the word we use is they end up being tricky,
20:10you know, um, uh, and so it becomes about finding the truth of that in, in the moment and, and, and
20:16they often end up being tricky. But in this case, it was probably the first time in my young career
20:21so far that I have witnessed the scene that was objectively the toughest on the page from a performance
20:30level actually was the toughest scene for me to perform. And that was, um, that was in the final
20:36moments of the film, the climax. And, uh, you know, without giving much away for those who haven't seen
20:40it, um, that, that it was a very difficult scene to perform, uh, for many reasons, uh, physically,
20:48emotionally, you know, spiritually. And, and it was in a way kind of the weight of the film was
20:55hinging on that scene. And, um, and if, and, and it was completely, it, you know, just the two of us
21:02performing and, and if it didn't work, you know, the, you know, the film would kind of fall flat.
21:07And also because it was based off of the New York Times story in a true incident, we didn't want to,
21:13a, we didn't want to, at least I didn't want to be manipulative, uh, with the scene. I didn't want it
21:19to feel, um, in any way, uh, gratuitous, but also it needed a certain emotional pitching, um, that is
21:29very hard to kind of endure. And, uh, so it, it was a scene that was very difficult to perform and
21:35probably the greatest challenge for me in my career so far. And, um, um, yeah, it took the life out of me.
21:41So that, that's the one. Um, and Neeraj, uh, you know, I have a kind of a general question on the,
21:48on the scope of the film because, you know, it's, it's, and we're not, I'm not going to give anything
21:53away, but it's, it's a, it's a dark, it's a dark story. It's based on a true story inspired by a true
21:59story. That's also quite dark, but the film is not dark in some ways. How did you, you know, how did you
22:05find a way to bring light to this, you know, rather dark world that we see in the film?
22:11That's a lovely question. Yeah. I think, um, the answer to that question is a quote that I used to
22:18put on every draft that I wrote. It was, it's a quote by Wilke where it says, uh, uh, let everything
22:25happen to you, uh, beauty and terror, uh, keep going. Just keep going. No feeling is final. So that,
22:33and also, you know, because it, the beauty and the terror both need to be part of the story.
22:39It can't be just that it can't be just the, the, the grief of it and, uh, the tragedy of it. And
22:46ironically, it also came from the story because there was an image of, um, Amrit Kumar, the real
22:51person who passed on, uh, his, his image, him being happy, wearing a lovely jeans and written happy
22:57Diwali around a frame that he's, uh, a part of. So those moments actually, I felt like, you know,
23:03because it's, it's constantly that you see that many times when we present people of, uh, the subaltern
23:09and the, and the marginalized communities, we always shown them as, uh, you know, system, uh,
23:15subjects of, uh, state oppression or something that's wrong that is happening to them. They only seem like
23:20victims and to dismantle the victimhood, it was necessary to bring the connection, which is a form of
23:27resistance for, uh, in their lives. And that connection is the joy also. It is also not just
23:33them. It's also the families, uh, sharing a meal together and having laughter. That was also essential
23:39to know, you know, because it, our urban gaze will limited, uh, limit them to only being victims.
23:44You know, it was necessary to dismantle that. That's a great way to end because again, we don't
23:49want to give away how the movie ends. Um, but I want to thank you guys for participating in this.
23:56Um, I was very moved by the film and I'm sure other people will be as well when they see it
24:01and best of luck, um, for the, you know, over there in Los Angeles for the promotion.
24:06Thank you, Jordan. Thank you for having us.
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