00:00Hi, this is Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter, and I'm in studio today with David
00:07Lowery and Sissy Spacek. Hi. Hi. How are you? We're good. Doing pretty good. Good. We're here
00:14to talk about The Old Man and the Gun. What an incredible movie. Thank you. Okay, the first
00:20question I wanted to ask is why did you want to make this particular story? Well, it's a really
00:25great true story. It's one of those true stories that's too good to be true, and yet it is.
00:30But also, it was sent to me by Robert Redford himself, and so the idea of making this particular
00:36story, telling this particular story with him was, that was too good to pass up in its own right.
00:41Yes. I thought it was me. No. Oh, man. You just caught me red-handed. I did that part out.
00:49As far as staying true to the source material, was it important for you to stay really close
00:56to the true story aspect of it, or did you feel comfortable kind of taking some liberties?
01:01I felt comfortable taking liberties. I felt that it was important to stick close to the
01:05spirit of the original story and to the character himself, Forrest Tucker. He was a fellow who
01:12really self-mythologized. You read that original New Yorker article, and you see this is a guy
01:17who saw himself as a movie version of a bank robber instead of a real bank robber. And so
01:23what I thought was, why not just tell the story that he would have wanted to see?
01:27Right. It's too bad he's passed on. He would have loved to. He won't get a chance to see it,
01:34but you know. Susie, tell me about your relationship of Robert Redford before you were cast together,
01:40because you hadn't done any movies together, but were you friends? Were you running in the same
01:44circles? No. No, we weren't friends, and I felt like I knew him, just like everybody else does,
01:51because I saw him in so many movies. He's a part of my consciousness now. But it was great. We got
01:59to know each other on screen, so it wasn't wasted. Yes. Yes. And have you ever been close to being cast
02:13in the same movie together in the past? No. Isn't that sad? So tragic. Like, how come no one ever
02:21thought of that? I don't know. It was obvious to me. It was like. Two strawberry blondes that like
02:25horses in the outdoors? Completely. You know, I wanted to ask you that, because there are some
02:30horseback riding scenes. Who's the better rider? Oh, he is. Hands down. But you're no slouch yourself.
02:37Thank you, David. I grew up riding, and I think he grew up riding, but he's got more riding on film
02:47than I do. He knows how to sit on top of a horse in a close-up in a very particular way. He's a
02:53fantastic rider. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. Tell me a little bit about the chemistry between
02:59Tucker and Jewel. The chemistry between Tucker. Well, I, oh, not the chemistry between Robert
03:08and me. Well, yeah. That, too. They're very inseparable at this point.
03:16I think we, I think Tucker and Jewel had a lot of, you know, their whole relationship was based on a
03:24lie. First of all, come to find out, he didn't even stop to help me with my truck. He was trying
03:30to dodge the police. And he, uh. What a revolting development. He also, uh, completely, uh, told
03:37you a false name. Never let up. Never let up. Yeah. He's, uh, he's not one for truthfulness.
03:45Correct. Yeah. But why do we still like him? He's still, there's something about him. There's
03:50something about him. Because he's charming and he's polite and he's funny and he's. And
03:56he's got some strange version of integrity that is impossible to deny. That's what I find.
04:01That's how I reconcile it with myself. Yeah. But he has his own formula. Very, a very specific
04:08formula that works just for him. I think, you know, I always thought that Jewel gave him
04:17a safe place to fall. Hmm. But he just didn't stay down. He wanted to, you know, he just
04:23had that itch that he had to scratch. He, he, it was too quiet on the farm for him. Yeah.
04:30Yeah. Yeah. And it's what he, what he knew, robbing banks. Yeah. That's what he knows. He
04:36knows it well. Yeah. Um, David, can you tell me a little bit about, uh, cultivating the chemistry
04:43between Sissy and Robert? Part of it was in the script, I think. You know, I was trying
04:49to write parts that both you and Bob could play. And, and in doing so, I kind of just
04:55had this idea that there would be this rapport between you. And I wanted to develop that.
05:00And I did that partially on the page, but then a lot of it was just. Oh, I thought it
05:04was on the page. I'll say like 50% of it was on the page, but then there's an extra 50%
05:09that I was just counting on being there. And I remember we got there for that first,
05:13you know, hour or two of rehearsal we did. No, we had one or two hours of rehearsal period
05:18for the entire movie. And we ran through that diner scene. And I just remember thinking like,
05:23okay, we need to stop before, you know, we get too far because it's already so good.
05:28It's already, you, you feel that electricity in the air already. And I need, we just needed
05:32to start shooting. So we put the rehearsals to a stop and, uh, and got down to shooting.
05:37And one of the great things we did with this film, one of the luxuries we had was
05:41that we were able to shoot, um, all of Sissy's scenes with Bob in sequence. So it began.
05:46That was so amazing because then it was, it unfolded. It just.
05:51Yeah. You got to know each other on camera.
05:53Yeah. Yeah. Because we didn't hang out and we didn't chit chat. We just got to know each
05:59other through Jewel and, and Forrest or whatever the heck his real name is.
06:04Bob Calhan. Bob Calhan. What a liar. What a liar. You're so right.
06:12Um, another, another thing about Jewel is that she is kind of very loosely based on a real life
06:17character, but is her own character because it's based on his wife, but not at all like his wife
06:24and does not play his wife in the movie. Um, what is it that you like about Jewel? I mean,
06:29she's really is a character that's kind of made for you. Yeah. And you know, I felt like Jewel was,
06:36was there to serve the story and to serve that, you know, him and not, not only figuratively,
06:45not like women need to serve men, but, um, for the, for the script, you know, uh, and I,
06:53I, because he was so, he went whichever way the wind blew, he had no, um, uh, homing device.
07:02And Jewel is all about home and she's rooted and I, I, but you know, he's such a charming guy.
07:12I think that she just thought he had the very best pickup line ever. I'm a bank robber.
07:19And she must've been kind of lonely. She had her dog and her horses, but, uh, I think it was,
07:29I, I think she never gave up who she was for him. She didn't, you know, she was old enough to know
07:37better than to run off with him. And, uh, she wasn't going to become a criminal just because he was,
07:44but she couldn't, she couldn't let him go. So it was, um, you know,
07:52it was important because it is called the old man, the gun and it's about Forrest Tucker. But
07:58I think that Sissy and Tika and Ari Robinson, who plays Casey's daughter and Elizabeth Moss,
08:04all are the moral compass of the film. And when you watch it, you just see them time and time
08:09again, like grounding the film from a very specific and from my point of view, correct perspective.
08:15And that was really important to me when making a film about a guy who's a liar and a cheat and a
08:19robber who we still can't help but love. Right, right, right. Well, one of the things I noticed
08:25about this movie is that just the, the pacing of the movie, how did you kind of figure out the
08:30pacing, how it was going to flow? A lot of the pacing was in the script, that, that sort of
08:36unusual rhythm that it has. Yeah. But then more of it came into place on set as I watched the actors,
08:42you know, have fun with the dialogue and we would just go exploring within the confines of the scenes
08:48and, and then we would get to the edit and just kind of like mess everything up. We just throw
08:52everything out the window and put it back together again and just really try to find a rhythm that
08:56felt alive. I wanted this movie to feel alive. It's very quick. It's not a long movie. It's very,
09:01it's very efficient in its running time, but I wanted to use that running time well and just weave
09:05in and out of these events that you would normally expect to see in a crime film, but we get there
09:10in unusual ways. And so that pace and that rhythm were, were key to me. And we just, you know, we're
09:16constantly just shuffling the scenes around, trying different things until finally it just, it felt right.
09:20It's like a piece of music. You just really have to get that rhythm right. And then with film,
09:25then you get to add music to it, which, which, which, uh, which illuminates that rhythm in a, in a very
09:30unique way. But the film itself, I always try to treat it as if it's a piece of music in its own right.
09:36What was it like, uh, putting together the Over the Hill Gang?
09:40The Over the Hill Gang? I just, uh, thought of a lot of actors I liked.
09:44Yeah.
09:45And by a lot, I mean two.
09:46And they sent the script to them and they both said yes.
09:49It was incredible. Like, I, I, I still can't believe they both agreed to come be a part of this
09:54because they've been heroes of mine for so long. I mean, Danny is like an icon. He's a legend,
09:59just like, just like Bob and Sissy are. And then Tom is just one of those guys who seems to exist
10:03outside of time and space in a way. I don't know.
10:06He belongs in a gang.
10:07Yeah, he belongs in a gang, but he just is his own thing. I mean, he's his own, you know, he's like one of his own song lyrics when you meet him. It's really interesting. And he, he's a truly unique and special human being. And I'm so glad that I got a chance just to hang out with him. Like, if he, if he had turned the movie down, but we got a chance to just talk on the phone about it, which we did, that would have been enough for me. But then what do you know? He just said yes and came to Cincinnati and shot this movie with us. And we're all the better for it.
10:35And were Tom Waits, Danny Glover, and Robert Redford comfortable with each other? Was it?
10:40Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, they had known, I think Danny and Bob had known each other a little bit. And of course, everyone just has admired Tom for so long, whether they've met him or not, that it just, it all clicked into place instantly. And, you know, as you see in the movie, they just have this ease and comfort around each other. They're just like three old friends hanging out.
10:56This guy has a very relaxed set. It's amazing. He just puts everybody at ease. Most of the people on the crew, he's worked with since the beginning of time. Since he was like a toddler.
11:11Like this tall. Yep.
11:12I really like to have a family environment when I'm making a movie. I really like to work with people who make it feel like we're not going to work every day. We're just hanging out with friends and having fun. And if you can create that environment, I think it shows through in the finished film.
11:27Yeah. Sissy, when you look back at your career, do you have any roles that you consider, what's your iconic role?
11:36My iconic role? Yeah.
11:38That I think, probably Badlands. I mean, that was sort of the beginning of everything for me.
11:44Yeah.
11:44So probably that.
11:46And is there a character, from all the characters that you've played, is there anybody that you would like to revisit now?
11:53Oh, Coal Miner's Daughter. That was the hardest one to give up.
11:58Yeah.
11:58But since there was already the real one, I thought it's best for me to, like...
12:03Let it go?
12:04Let it go.
12:05But that was the hardest thing about that one.
12:08Yeah.
12:09You know, in the era that we're living in, you've made a movie that's about human nature and character.
12:15When people leave the movie theater, are there any questions you want them to be asking?
12:21That's a great question in its own right.
12:23I made this movie with the express intention of just giving people a good time at the theater.
12:29I really want people to go and walk out with a smile on their face.
12:32But I'm incapable of leaving well enough alone and just leaving it with that.
12:35So if people are asking questions, I think it should be, like, you know, are we living our life to the best possible extent that we can, to the greatest extent that we can?
12:44Are we doing good in this world?
12:47Are we making the world a better place?
12:48I mean, this isn't a movie about those things, but nonetheless, those are the things I was thinking about while making it.
12:53And so I don't, you know, expect anyone to have, you know, questions like that on their mind when they're walking out of the theater.
13:00But if they do, I hope that the movie gives them good food for thought.
13:04And I know that this is, you know, that Robert has said that this might be his last film and then kind of walked that back because he realized that was a very strong statement to make.
13:15Got everybody going, didn't it?
13:18Yeah.
13:20Do you think that if you had the opportunity to work with them again, you would?
13:25Oh, absolutely.
13:25Yeah, 100%.
13:26Yeah.
13:27We'd get in line behind everybody else.
13:30Yeah.
13:31I would love...
13:31Lay in front of everybody else.
13:33I would love to write another continuing Adventures of Bob and Sissy.
13:37I mean, I would love to keep that train going because I think it's, you know, this movie's only like 90 minutes.
13:42We could use a couple more hours of that in our lives, don't you think?
13:44Yeah, I agree.
13:45And I'd like to see some more horseback riding from both of you.
13:49You should have seen me on the horse before they got that shot.
13:52It was acting up.
13:53We had to go to horse number two.
13:56They are finicky creatures.
13:57Oh, my God.
13:59Well, Sissy's Basic, David Lowery, thank you so much for being here.
14:03And go check out Old Man and the Gun in theaters now.
14:05Thank you so much.
Comments