- 2 months ago
Director Kabir Akhtar, editor John Axelrad, costume designer Melissa Bruning, makeup artist Kirsten Coleman and supervising sound editor/designer and rerecording mixer Steve Fanaga discuss the impact of COVID-19 on the creative community.
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00:00Welcome to our viewers. I'm Carolyn Giardina, and thank you for joining us for this special
00:04episode of The Hollywood Reporters Behind the Screen. So how is the Hollywood creative
00:09community navigating the impact of the corona crisis, and how do we get back to work? That's
00:15what we'll be talking about today with a panel of our talented creative professionals. I'm going
00:20to introduce our panelists now. Please join me in welcoming Kabir Akhtar, director of Crazy
00:26Ex-Girlfriend, and Never Have I Ever. Hello. Hi. John Axelrad, editor. His credits include
00:35James Gray's Ad Astra and Lost City of Z. Welcome, John. Thank you very much for having me. Steve
00:43Fanigan, sound editor, designer, and mixer. He's a Game of Thrones alum who actually is just
00:49wrapping up BBC's Normal People. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Kirsten Coleman,
00:56makeup artist. Her credits include Euphoria and Barry Jenkins' upcoming series, The Underground
01:02Railroad. Thank you so much for joining us. Hi. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
01:07And costume designer, Melissa Bruning, whose credits include Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
01:12and War for the Planet of the Apes. Thank you for joining us, too. Hello. Hi, everybody.
01:17So, for starters, how is everybody? I'm at home.
01:28Kabir, we're going to start with you. How are you filling your days?
01:32You're looking at it, you know. I'm looking for different backgrounds for Zoom calls like
01:38this. Today, we're in the living room. That's fun. It's, you know, it's weird, right? I mean,
01:44as a freelancer, I think we're all used to hitting a hiatus every now and then and like
01:48taking a break from projects. But we're also all used to filling that time with either looking for
01:54the next gig or just life stuff and hanging out. And now here we are. Well, what are you planning
02:01right now? Or are you working on new ideas? What kind of conversations are you having with your
02:08colleagues right now? Yeah, I think mostly these conversations have been about like when we can
02:14get back to work, you know, in a safe way that like everything is open again. And I mean, it just
02:20seems like it's going to be a while still. So just there's still lots of optimistic conversations about
02:26next season. But like, when is next season? You know, I mean, normally, what are we? We're May right
02:31now. We should just about to start talking about the fall shows, right? But are there fall shows? I mean,
02:37pilot season hasn't happened yet. So that's confusing. Are you talking to colleagues about
02:42ways of doing some of these shows remotely? No, I'm not yet. I mean, I mean, I think that I don't
02:49know. I mean, you know, just thinking about being on set with like 100 people and what that's going
02:53to be like, then when can we do that? I mean, I think a lot of friends who work in post are all
02:58running, you know, they're running out of footage. Like that work is all kind of ending. So, you know,
03:05the pipeline is kind of stalled for everybody. John, you were working at home. Would you tell
03:10us about your experience? Me? Well, actually, I wasn't working at home. I was on a show. I finished
03:19a feature film called Antebellum just in the next time by the end of February. And then there's a show
03:26down the hall for me, uh, editing facility that hired me to come on as the second editor.
03:33And I was on for three weeks before we got shut down due to the virus. Um, now a lot of my
03:42colleagues in post-production, we do have the, I guess, the privilege of being able to work from
03:49home ostensibly, but, um, not everyone is doing it. And in my case, I came on as a second editor and
03:57it was a crew of 15 people working hand in hand. We had visual effects and sound and music, uh, everyone
04:05in our suite. Um, and what they decided to do was just have a skeleton crew of the main editor and the
04:14director, uh, still working on the director's cut. It was actually a trilogy of films. So they were
04:20still working on director's cut as the third film. So I was furloughed like everyone else. Um,
04:27still waiting to hear if we're going to go back or if we will set up, uh, at home systems so we can
04:36work from home. Um, again, we do have that ability to do so. It's not an ideal way to work.
04:44Since we're in a very collaborative medium, but, um, you know, that, that is an advantage of people
04:51in post-production who can do this. For the uninitiated, would you describe how
04:56the editing process is set up and works from home and how you collaborate with the director
05:00and your colleagues? Well, you know, I've talked to a few of my colleagues who are still doing this.
05:06Um, sometimes you can tap into the system, uh, at work, you know, the studios are very concerned
05:15about security. And so they don't, I think some rules being bent now. So we do have a lot of people
05:24taking media home with them on hard drives, um, and being able to work with secure footage of how
05:33they have to find all these NDAs. Um, but then there's some other systems, uh,
05:38Evercast and some other platforms where you can actually tap into remote servers and, uh, literally
05:48be working at the work sites on the secure servers, but you're basically tapping into them
05:55from your home set up. Um, usually you need more than just a laptop and your own software. So
06:03post-production vendors will actually set you up with equipment and either through platforms like
06:10Evercast or even simple platforms like Zoom. I know people have been sharing edits on Zoom,
06:17with directors and producers. Um, and there are some few that, um, have taken
06:24the COVID-19 tests and director and editor working together at the director's house.
06:32So I don't know how safe that is, but I assume that if they have passed the health measures,
06:38they figure that they're safe to do so. Well, you and Kabir both are editors. I mean,
06:45what are your thoughts, um, you know, moving forward if this process continues? Um, is,
06:51is working at home from Zoom the same sort of, you know, collaborative experience that you get when,
06:57you know, your director is sitting in your edit room and, you know, are there pros and cons to the
07:00sort of setup?
07:03Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, that just seems like, you know, the whole fun part about working
07:08together with someone. I did a show, uh, last year that I shot in Vancouver and they posted
07:13in Vancouver, but I was back here. Um, and we had one of these kind of, you know,
07:17setups, basically FaceTime, like I had my phone set up right next to my laptop. So we were just
07:21FaceTiming with the editor, um, and I had a live stream output from the Avid that was,
07:26you know, I forgot the name of the program they were using, but it worked really well,
07:28um, to be able to communicate. We were just, but we were just sat there, the two of us together
07:33all day, worked on it, um, which seemed okay. But I mean, having daily streaming remotely or anything,
07:39that seems like, you know, timing wise, like they say necessity is the mother of invention.
07:46And I think at this particular time, it's great that we have options like that.
07:50I think, you know, it is definitely convenient. Um, and we're blessed to be able to be in this
07:58day and age where we have this. I mean, had this pandemic happened 15 years ago, I think we would
08:03have been in a lot more trouble. Um, I don't feel that working from home will be the new normal
08:13per se for post-production and maybe this way for a while. But my personal opinion is every director
08:19I've worked with craves that in-person collaboration. And especially on bigger films,
08:26when we have crews of 10, 15 people working down the hall from one another, nothing can replace that
08:3412 hour a day productivity, um, of being able to just call people as you need them and say,
08:41Hey, you know, can you help me with this? I need this. And, um, I don't know how many marathon
08:46online sessions you can do with virtual editing, but I think things will probably go back to normal.
08:54I mean, we'll obviously have social distancing guidelines for forever after this experience, but, um,
09:02um, but we are blessed to at least be able to do this, as you say, uh, you know, in a pinch.
09:09Yeah, I agree. I think that if you think about like collaborating and not just in post, but
09:13anywhere with any two people, uh, for all of us, I mean, zoom rhythm is different than like normal
09:19conversation rhythm, right? Like even zoom happy hours is like, cool. It's nice seeing friends, but it's
09:24like, there's six of us. And one of us is talking at a time. Like, that's not normal for hanging out with
09:28my friends, like, you know, or for being at work where people are all just like pitching
09:33and contributing like spontaneous ideas. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, man.
09:39Let's bring Steve into this part of the conversation. Steve, um, there's mixing,
09:44there's ADR recording, there's music recording. Would you talk about the different aspects of your
09:49job and you know, what you're finding you can and cannot do at this point?
09:53So like, uh, it's the same as what the guys are saying, you know, we're, we're having to be creative
10:00and figure out ways to work around this and they may not be the ideal, which is obviously people in
10:07the same room or in the same space as each other working collaboratively, collaboratively. But I think
10:13we're at a point where, so on Normal People, as we were finishing the series, we went into lockdown and
10:19I've been working remotely in London on that show, uh, for the most of the schedule and going back
10:24and forth to Dublin for exits, but it became apparent as we were nearing the end and had two
10:29episodes left to complete that, that just wasn't going to be possible. Ireland went on shutdown before
10:35the UK and the UK followed a couple of weeks later. So we just started to look at ways that we could
10:41work that would allow us to finish the series properly. And I think had we not been sort of
10:4710 episodes into a 12 episode run. It might've been a trickier thing to figure out, but ultimately we
10:53ended up having, I had to mix the show on my own and we had to upload screeners for everyone to watch
11:01and review. And we have to build time into our schedule to allow for how the feedback on that
11:06would happen and how the notes would be done. We, we, you know, there is no way for us to sort of mix
11:12remotely. That would be instantaneous and useful in a streaming sort of way. So it made sense to sort
11:19of finish a mix, upload the mix, review the mix, have a conversation like this. We use, we use software
11:25like BlueJeans, uh, which works exactly the same way as this, had a good conversation. I went away and
11:32did notes. No went off and did any fixed notes he might've needed to do. We pulled everything back
11:38together and we uploaded again. And I was encouraging everyone to listen, say on their home TV. We were
11:45mixing a TV show, which was useful. I think this would have been harder, but a feature film. Um,
11:50but it allowed us to, so they could watch in their home on their TV, which is probably,
11:55you know, an optimum viewing experience for them because it's what they're used to watching and
11:59hearing. So at least they can react to the soundtrack based on what they're used to, uh, in their home space.
12:06I also asked them all to maybe have a second viewing with headphones that they were used to
12:10do and watch on a tablet or, uh, whatever their remote way of viewing might be because we were
12:16conscious that this show would be watched by people on iPads and phones and whatever else it might be,
12:22you know, when someone's downloading a stream of a show from the BBC. So we, we figured out a way to
12:28work around it, but it, you know, it wouldn't have been straightforward had I not had that support
12:34from my director and element productions, the production company who were willing to allow
12:39us, um, just a little bit more time and a little bit more, uh, trust than maybe you would, uh, feel
12:46you were in a position to ask for if you were working with someone for the first time. So, you know,
12:52it's, it's been an interesting learning curve. And in the weeks since that we finished, um,
12:58so we, when lockdown happened, we had a few days of a run into it. So the actors we needed to finish
13:04ADR with, we were able to finish ADR with. So studios here were still open. So we were able
13:09to get people in social distancing was maintained, even though it hadn't become policy here yet.
13:15And Niall and Lenny were in a studio in Dublin listening in via Source Connect and they socially
13:20distanced from each other in that listening environment. And, uh, and, and from there on,
13:26we were able to do that actually has already happened on St. Patrick's day. So we worked
13:31the bank holiday, a traditional Irish bank holiday to make sure that we could get it done.
13:36Our post supervisor, Tricia Parrott and our ADR Wrangler, Jamie Paisley, they worked really hard to
13:42pull everyone together as quickly as possible. Um, so that we were able to actually record the way we
13:48would generally do it. Um, albeit with some social distancing involved, but had it been a week later,
13:54we would have had to have gotten quite a bit more creative. And I think there are some very
14:00interesting creative ways that people are figuring out to record ADR. Um, Todd AO have an app that, uh,
14:07it's quite remarkable. It's called, um, actor ADR, actors mobile ADR, and it's a way to basically, uh,
14:15submit clips to an actor. The software provides streamers and text,
14:20and the actor can then take an iPad with hopefully some sort of semi professional microphone connected
14:26to it and record the loops at home. Obviously it creates, it's not the ideal scenario, but it is a
14:32scenario that is being, uh, people are finding effective. Uh, we had to do a little bit of swear
14:38cover for an airline version of the show. And we were able to connect with an actor and it worked just
14:44fine. And I think obviously the limitation with that is you can't be in the room with them. You
14:50can't set up the mic for them. You know, if someone's recording in their living room, it's a reflective
14:54space. So, you know, to try and sort of have a little bit of a session with them beforehand where
15:00you test the microphone and where you suggest, you know, have you got two or three places we can
15:04check out in your home where you could potentially record this ADR and we could figure out which one
15:09might see best. So it's, it's, it's not an ideal, uh, fix, but it is a fix and people are going to
15:15much greater lengths now. Um, if anyone's interested, there's a brilliant, um, amps who are the sound
15:22guild here in the UK have a brilliant podcast that they did with several dialogue and ADR supervisors.
15:27And they're all just discussing the various workarounds they're using at the moment. So
15:32some studios are using social distancing. So the only people present at the ADR session are the
15:37unity or mixer, the actor, and they're social distancing when they meet, and then they're
15:43in separate studios while they record. So they're connected remotely, but they're not in the same
15:48room. And obviously, uh, directors can dial into that maybe via Skype, or if they have something
15:54more sophisticated, maybe they can source connect in. But I think it's one of those situations where
16:01I think the type of people who work in this industry tend to get creative. And so people are
16:07finding interesting ways to figure out how to finish shows. And I think at the moment,
16:12a lot of the work is about the stuff that actually managed to film and has been in post for a period
16:19of time, figuring out how to finish it effectively. And then obviously, the bigger question is how we're
16:26going to get back to production. Right, right. So we're going to move on to Kirsten. Obviously,
16:32production is not on, but you've mentioned that you've been doing tutorials and things like that
16:38on social media. Would you talk a bit about what you've been up to? Yeah. Um, you know,
16:44obviously, my job is literally being within that six foot radius of people. So you know,
16:52it's so it's so interesting to me to hear everyone else, even people that can work from home, I'm always
16:57like, what's that like, because my job is literally based off of touching people's faces and their
17:02physical bodies. So it's, it's, um, it's been interesting for me, but I have used social media,
17:09um, and, and teaching classes. And there's all kinds of things I've been doing now, because
17:15everyone's at home, and I get the biggest question all the time with like, how do I do my makeup for
17:18zoom meetings and all this stuff. So it's been interesting, because I've been able to
17:23um, tap into, you know, doing film and, and, and doing creative narrative work is, is my favorite.
17:28But I've also been able to sway over to, um, kind of, you know, my followers with euphoria and social
17:36media and just kind of creating a space of like helping people be creative with their own self
17:42expression. And also you're bored at home and you want to do stuff. So I've, I've kept myself pretty
17:48busy with, um, just educating people on how to like, be fun and creative on their own time
17:54with their own makeup. Uh, which has been, it's been good. And it's, you know, it's kept me,
17:59it's kept me fresh. And, and, you know, originally, so I was working on the show for Barry Jenkins,
18:05Underground Railroad in Georgia, and I left a little bit early to come back and start season two of euphoria.
18:10And that was March 10, or something like that. And it was like that week was when everything just
18:16rapidly every day, it got like more, more wild, you know, warnings and, and, and everything. So,
18:23you know, it was, they were basically like, Hey, we're shutting down. And, and so we,
18:27in a way it was, it was stressful going just back to back from show to show, you know, series to series.
18:34Um, so it's been nice to have this time to actually really prepare and really be creative and just have
18:39like a no pressure state of being able to really just like, let the, the ideas flow and just kind
18:47of have like a, um, I don't know, I guess, stress-free environment to be really create and
18:53prepare for the show. So that's been kind of the silver lining of the whole thing. Of course,
18:58it's, uh, it's been stressful, not having work and we don't go back to work till September. So
19:04that's when they said, we're going to start filming. So I have that much time to fill my,
19:10my time. So, um, I don't know, you know, I, at first it was really stressful and, and,
19:16and I think it was hard for our personalities to adjust with like going from full on work mode to
19:22just dead silence. And I think everyone kind of felt that a little bit. Um, but now I'm sort of just,
19:29I'm just trying to take it as I can and accept the gift of having the free time right now. And
19:34and, and, uh, and use it wisely and trying to stay creative. So that's how I've been using my time.
19:41Well, what you've brought up is something I think every, we're all, you know, adjusting to that. Um,
19:46what is everyone doing to, you know, to stay, you know, sane and creative during this time? Has
19:51anyone picked up new hobbies or what, what is everyone doing?
19:55I watch my kids. I have two small children. I have a almost three-year-old and a just six-year-old.
20:05And, um, so my day is full. Is that a new hobby?
20:12No, that is the hobby I've had for six years.
20:17The hobby was I used to see other people that have coffee and, and
20:23thank God for them. I mean, I love my family. It's amazing that at these, this age that we do get
20:30to interact so much and it's not just dropping them off at soccer or picking up at school or
20:36preschool or, you know, cramming in work questions in the evening in between making dinner and getting
20:43bath time. And so it's been a nice full routine. Um, but it's definitely as, as an adult, anytime
20:53anybody who's an adult is around like, Oh my God, a conversation. Besides my partner, who's an actor.
21:01So we're both sort of used to spending a lot of time together when we're not working, which is good.
21:07Um, but yeah, it's, it's been the unendingness of it is I feel like the most stressful part of it.
21:17Melissa, there's one initiative you've been up to though, that I would love you to talk about.
21:20The Costume Designers Guild has, um, an initiative in place where they've been sewing masks. As I
21:26understand, uh, they've made into as a, as a guild, you've made and delivered more than 20,000 at this
21:32stage. Um, and I know you've been involved in that. Would you describe it?
21:36Yeah. Um, I have always supported myself on sewing. I learned how to sew when I was eight. My aunts all
21:44sewed. And as a costume designer going up the ranks, I knew I could make anything look amazing
21:52because I could tailor it in the truck if I had to. Um, and so in these times, you know, I saw on,
21:59I think it was a Rachel Maddow that they were looking for people to make cloth masks, like just,
22:04just regular masks, even to go over the N95 masks. And so I started looking into that and gathering stuff
22:11in my house. And then the guild sent out a notice saying that they were working with, it was 892 and
22:17705. We're working together to create a program where they would gather supplies, put together a
22:24packet for you. You could go and pick it up, create the masks and then drop off in a safe environment.
22:31And so I think I started that. Let's see, we got shut in around the 13th. And then I think I picked up
22:40masks that Tuesday and then I've made a little over a hundred masks and then also masks for some of my
22:48family. And this is sort of, I mean, they're not, they're not fancy, hook over your ears, but they've got
22:56metal and put twisty ties at the top. So they bend to your nose and they're machine washable and they
23:02stretch. And, um, I feel like I'm helping. Great. Fantastic. Really fantastic. I don't have any idea
23:13how to use a sewing machine. My husband cuts out things for me. If, if, if I get stuck and I know I
23:22have some due and you know, the drop-offs now are on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I don't want to
23:28like miss a window of picking up and dropping off. And so I, he's gotten used to my rotary cutter.
23:34So he can put them nowhere and the kids pick up the pins.
23:43That's, that's fun. Yeah. It's a good project for them.
23:47Yeah. You ask them what color is the pin top, you know, and then it's like school.
23:51So. Right.
23:57Schooling is a real thing these days.
23:59Now, Kirsten, I'm sure a lot of people have been asking you about how to do her and makeup
24:03for all the zoom meetings we've been having. Uh, would you like to share some tips?
24:08Um, yeah, I think, well, this is something I always recommend to people, but I feel like more than ever,
24:15um, there's no excuse for this not to happen. And that's getting a lot of sleep.
24:20But I'm not telling you right now, that's literally the best you can ever look is just
24:25making sure you're rested and making sure you're drinking a lot of water. Um, that's the best makeup.
24:31And I, I, I'm just a firm advocate in skincare and just taking care of yourself more than anything.
24:36But if you're in a pinch, um, and you have like five minutes to do your makeup, mascara,
24:42concealer, and like a blush, if you can do your brows, great, but just a quick,
24:47your mascara will always open up your eyes.
24:49Right. If you don't wear mascara, sometimes it just looks like you're like this, like it just,
24:53it just opens up your eyes right away. So that's always my go-to if I'm like,
24:57you know, life or death situation, I only have five minutes to do my makeup.
25:02Um, but yeah, skincare and taking care of yourself, everyone should be sleeping right now. I'm sorry,
25:07there's no excuse. You know, um, I'm sure in the beginning when things are stressful,
25:13you know, as we were processing what was going on, maybe there wasn't as much sleep, but, um,
25:19I mean, I'm thankful I can get eight hours. I mean, who gets eight hours in our line of work
25:23ever? I mean, I never do. If I get six hours, I'm thankful. So I've been utilizing my bed quite
25:29often for that. I find that don't watch the news before you go to bed. I get better sleep.
25:4010 minutes of the news max every day is all I can handle. I just, that's all I need.
25:45Don't abuse it.
25:49Yeah. I'm sleeping the correct amount. I'm just sleeping all the wrong hours and sort of different
25:53every day. It's funny. Cause it's sort of, it's the same sort of jet lag you get just being on
25:59set where suddenly like on Friday, I'm like waking up much later than I would be on Monday for no,
26:03you know, for nor at work, I would have a reason to have an 11 o'clock call. But now I don't know,
26:08I'm just sort of staying up late, catching up on TV shows that I've been meaning to watch. You know,
26:11I've watched season one of the wire last week and season two of the wire this week. So finally
26:17making my way through it, really enjoying it. Great show. Thanks. No spoilers.
26:27And are all of you in touch with, uh, are you doing, um, meetings with your union or that your
26:34agents or, you know, what, what kind of, you know, business, how are you getting your business
26:38information right now? We get a weekly update from, at least from my agency, from APA, they send out
26:45a weekly update of, you know, what, what they're talking about with studios, um, what the plans are,
26:54um, how are you, we're still here for you. Um, you know, it's, it's more moral support. Um,
27:04um, I think that, you know, a lot of us know, like, um, hair, makeup, wardrobe, all of us that just do
27:12actors. Um, I don't, I imagine a lot, a lot of plexiglass in the future. I mean, I had a dream the
27:23other night of just actors, like there was a plexi around the set and you could like pass them things,
27:30like boy in a bubble, you know, but I don't, I could prep. I certainly could prep a job,
27:36not really seeing many people, but once I got into physically looking at fabrics or picking,
27:42how do you go shopping? Do you just keep Bloomingdale's open for a couple hours for
27:46shoppers? I mean, I just don't know how it all works and I don't think they do either.
27:51No, I think it's interesting. You think about, there's so many questions. I was midway through
27:56shooting an episode for universal and we had, in addition to having scenes with, you know,
28:01a hundred background or whatever. So good luck with that. Um, whenever we get back to normal,
28:05but we also had like a, you know, location day at like someone's house, you know, at like a house
28:10in the valley. So are they going to want all of us strangers tromping through their house? I don't
28:15think so. You know, I mean, just the get back to work of it all is like, just from speaking to like
28:22my agent and my manager and like just, you know, other people and friends and whatnot,
28:26everyone, there's a lot of like sort of optimism about when we get back and when we get to start.
28:31And like, you know, they're still sending me like scripts to read about like things that might come
28:34along down the pike and like, you know, Halloween or Christmas or whenever. But so certainly we'll all
28:41be working again someday. Well, Kabir, could you elaborate a little bit on what are,
28:47what are some of the pain points and areas that you're thinking about in your job that you're going
28:51to have to address as we begin to open things up? I mean, I start really simple and small. I mean,
28:58I think there's, there's, in addition to like the obvious, how do we get a hundred people together
29:02in a fluid dynamic space where everyone's moving back and forth and interfacing with everybody else?
29:08I mean, certainly Kirsten, right up in people's faces, like, you know, inches away from people
29:14is part of the job. And, and, but I started an even simpler way. Like I'm thinking about getting
29:20onto the lot in the morning, like there are security people at the gate who have to interface
29:24with hundreds of people in the morning. What's that like for them? Like, like people, you know,
29:29if you've got a drive on, you have to hold your license up to the window. I mean, there's so many
29:34small details about like the work day and like how early you get there before your call time,
29:39knowing you have to park and walk to wherever you're walking to, but also now get into the lot
29:44will be a long line of cars. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like there's so many of these
29:49details to consider. Well, Kirsten, you talked a little bit to me earlier about schedules,
29:54because you mentioned that your job is going to take longer, you know, just between, you know,
29:59washing brushes and between applications and things like that. Would you elaborate?
30:03Hair and makeup in general, like I have some relief because we are so trained already in sanitation
30:10and being clean. It's just, we have to, that I feel like I have faith. I mean, my union is also
30:18working on a protocol right now for us to have moving forward. But I think the trickiness,
30:26the tricky nature of it, right, is that to be really clean and sanitized between each actor,
30:31we need more time. And, you know, like, for example, with Euphoria, I mean, the makeup looks we do
30:38on Euphoria already can take up to an hour and a half. And then you add on, you know,
30:44switching setup time, cleaning the station, you know, really, there's extra cleanup time at the
30:49end of the day, like cleaning everyone's actor bags and really being clean, totally cleaning the
30:54trailer. I mean, I that's what I'm, I'm sort of anticipating all these crazy extra cleaning measures,
31:00like just to really double triple check and make sure we're clean in the trailer, because
31:05we're kind of the the the entry point and the exit point of every actor at the end of the day. So
31:11we really have to be on top of it. And so I expect it taking us a lot more time. I think the tricky
31:17nature of it is, of course, you know, our job is always sort of rushed by production, right? It's like,
31:24you're taking too long, we need five minutes, whatever. So we need the support, in my opinion,
31:28from production, to give us the space we need to be as clean and sanitary as, as we absolutely need to
31:35be. So I hope, you know, I, I predict a shift in how production kind of moves through the day. And,
31:46you know, and also you were talking about, you know, having 100 people on set. Another thing we do in
31:51Euphoria is we have these major, major scenes of like hundreds and hundreds of background.
31:57And I'm just wondering, you know, for my makeup arts, our background makeup artists, you know,
32:01like, how do we keep them safe when you have 10 or 15 minutes per actor to pump them through the works
32:08and we can't clean in between. So that's, you know, I mean, we can, but it's like, we really need the
32:13extra time right now. So I'm just hoping that production kind of, you know, participate with us
32:18and, and listen to what we know as experts on how to stay clean. Um, but I also foresee a lot more
32:26tiling when it comes to, um, background scenes, because I don't think people are going to want
32:33200, 300 background actors on set. Right. And not to be weird, not to be weird about this, but like,
32:38it's not just 200 background, but it's also 200 people you don't know, right? Like in a world where it's
32:42like, we are all work together, you know, there's a strange new element. It's like a little bit of trust.
32:47You know, they're going to come sick because they don't want to not show up, you know? So
32:52but even, even to tile actors, I mean, that's an act of dressing, staging,
33:00fitting, tiling, visual effects has to do each one. And I did a lot of that. I just finished Space Jam 2
33:08last year. And I mean, we had 350 backgrounds every day for like four weeks, but then we also
33:15additionally, we're tiling each of those people to magnify the crowds. It just can't be done
33:23right now. I mean, if you want to have a group of 20 background that work in an office or are your,
33:30your core background, and you want to quarantine them and test them every day
33:35and do all their fittings at once and know everything you're going to do with them, then
33:40you could probably have that many. But short of that, we're going to be doing small stories.
33:45Even small films I think are going to have, I think visual effects companies are really going to
33:54benefit from the new normal. Even small films, I'm hearing that they may have actors shoot scenes
34:02separately. And then we fish them together. Even if it's two actors talking together in a job.
34:12I think that it's funny because all these things are going to take so much longer that, you know,
34:16whatever everyone's first day back at work is, I think we're all prepared for the massive surprise
34:22we're all going to have on day one for how much longer everything suddenly takes.
34:25Yeah. Well, it's also going to be a priority because like my husband had knee surgery last week.
34:32So he was able to get a COVID test. The nurses, anybody that needed to work on him got a COVID test.
34:40I couldn't go into the hospital. I had to drop him off at valet. And then they wheel him back out
34:45to me with me in a mask and put him in the car. And I just think that, you know, because testing is
34:52such a minimum until it becomes a maximum, then you're just going to have to, you know,
34:59who gets tested first actors, you know, who gets text tested next, possibly makeup artists and hair
35:06people for their job. You know, I think it goes in proximity to the actors because that's the
35:14priority of what you have to do to move forward to actually get some content because people are
35:20burning through content. Sorry, post. So, and visual effects take a long time.
35:28I mean, any film that I've worked on that's visual effects, it takes two to three years to come out.
35:33So, and you know, you can rush it so much, but a lot of the people I know in Space Jam 2 are
35:38working out of their houses. They had to take their computers, set up remotely, and it just takes even
35:45longer. Oh yeah. Especially when you think about like the, the pipeline that we're, you know,
35:50the full-time pipeline of content coming has been shut off now. So, you know, I did a show for
35:56Netflix, I did a show for Netflix last year, and I think it was supposed to come out in
36:01midsummer. And I've heard that they're going to push it a couple months. I presume this is because
36:06there's an awareness that people are going to start running out of new things to watch.
36:10Exactly. There's going to be a lull in content that comes out at some point because there's
36:16literally just been a, you know, a shutdown of everything being produced right now.
36:20But like I said, it's given me a chance to go back and watch The Wire, which I'm very excited.
36:24Exactly. No spoilers.
36:27I also worry that I know in Sweden that Netflix is using a crew, but the crew has agreed to quarantine
36:35for before the shoot and for during the shoot. And that's great for some people,
36:40but that's not going to be, everybody's lives are not going to be able to work that way.
36:45So that's, that's the other part of it to think about.
36:50Yeah, absolutely.
36:52Yeah. And I think it's a really interesting one because
36:55even if you quarantine a crew, there's still going to be people that they're going to need
36:58to interact with at a hotel or wherever it might be. And if one tiny thing goes wrong in that scenario,
37:05you could have a whole production shut down because a few people get sick and
37:10that's a, it's, you can sort of see how a closed system like that could have an application, but
37:14it sort of feels a little bit like, you know, how, how restricted would that be? And what would the
37:20social distancing look like amongst crew members or amongst catering or whatever the ancillary
37:26people around that production would be? It feels, it feels like something that sounds good on paper,
37:32but in practice becomes very difficult. And it sort of feels to me like smaller things maybe are the way
37:38that production will start back up. And you can sort of imagine something that has very limited
37:43locations and has a very small cast. But even at that, I think as soon as they get into it, like you're
37:49saying day one, suddenly be like, Oh my God, this actually, what we thought would take us three
37:54hours. It's actually taking six. And you know, I've heard stories like, you know, each department
37:59would get their time on the floor, but no one else would be on the floor. So you suddenly, you basically
38:05just, you know, in terms of actual people hours on set, it's just going to exponentially increase
38:11before you get to hit, to actually record anything or to actually shoot anything.
38:16And so it feels like, I think what's interesting is that there seems to be a good movement in the
38:22unions, both here and in the States where each, each, each department is sort of looking at what
38:29the safety protocol would need to be for that department. And if they can figure that out for
38:34each department, then at least those depart, all of those sort of ideas can be put together and see,
38:39well, how does this actually look for an entire production? And when you get a sense of how
38:45the small parts then move in relation to each other as well as in relation to themselves,
38:49maybe then you're moving towards something where you can actually start making a plan that's,
38:55that's possible. But it's so hard to imagine how it works once there's any sort of outside
39:01communication or contact needed, whether that's extras or that's catering, or that's, I don't know,
39:07as someone who has to get a lift somewhere rather than getting in their own car, you know, it becomes a,
39:12becomes a dangerous thing, essentially. John, on the post side, you had actually mentioned
39:17something to me earlier that I hadn't thought of, just about air conditioning for, you know,
39:24when you're working with computers. Could you talk about that? Yeah, sure. I mean, obviously,
39:30the biggest issue to deal with when we get back to working is what happens on a film set,
39:37when you've got hundreds of people interacting and the social distancing and sanitation. But
39:44we have to also think about things we take for granted. And for those that work in an air
39:51conditioned environment, in small quarters, and I'm talking about production coordinators and supervisors,
39:59production accountants, and then those in post production.
40:02I was, in my late night news watching, which keeps me up at night,
40:07a story about a restaurant in Wuhan, China, that many patrons over the course of several nights came
40:17down with COVID-19. And these people happened to sit at the same table, different people over different nights.
40:28And they determined that they were in the direct line of the air conditioning ducts.
40:35The virus now gets caught up in the system. And if you don't have proper ventilation
40:42or don't have the proper filtration in place, the virus can live and thrive and spread. And so,
40:50you know, we might be in a facility where someone three doors down, I mean,
40:55we could all be in our own room wearing masks, but maybe some person three doors down is not
41:02wearing a mask, coughs, it goes into the air conditioning system and comes out in your room.
41:08I don't know the ins and outs of this. I'm not, you know, privy to know how AC systems work. But I do think
41:16when we go back to work, and I know my guild, the Editors Guild and Kathy Rapola has taken a great
41:25leadership role on helping educate and be proactive about safety steps that need to take place.
41:34I don't know if this is being addressed about air conditioning, but, you know, we do need to look
41:40at that in addition to, when I go into a workspace, I live in LA, I look at all earthquake dangers,
41:50you know, it's the first thing I do, it's like, okay, I don't want the bookshelves there,
41:53they can fall on me, I don't want this here because it could block my escape route.
41:57But I think when we go back, we have to take everything that we normally take for granted
42:03and really think it through. And I think through strong leadership by our guilds,
42:11and I know IOPC or IA is having an initiative to really make the employer look out for protections
42:22for the employees, as opposed to the current administration, which, and the Department of
42:28Labor, which is, I think they're saying that it's up to the employees to protect themselves.
42:36So there's got to go back to work, the employer to make sure we have a space to work in the environment.
42:44So could we go around and could I ask each of you what you're hearing as far as when you think
42:49your projects or you're hearing other projects are going to start to inch toward resuming or starting?
42:57I keep hearing the words August and September. Like, those are the two words that I hear. But
43:04who knows?
43:06Does that feel realistic to you?
43:09You know, I'll tell you, when we shut down in mid March, you know, we were told it would be two
43:14weeks. And I think we all knew we're like, they're just telling us it's not gonna be two weeks.
43:17By the time, I think we were all like, well, maybe by June. But as we started to see, like, how
43:23this whole thing has unfolded, it's like, well, obviously, that's not realistic, especially now
43:27it's May, forget it. So, you know, look, August is another, what, 13 or so weeks from now. So,
43:34and this has been, it's been about seven weeks already. So, you know, I don't know. I mean,
43:42right now, things don't seem super different than they did when it started,
43:45in terms of like, it trending better. It's good that the city of LA is offering tests. I know
43:49someone who went and got a test yesterday, they waited in that line on Sepulveda of cars for an
43:54hour to get tested. So, it's good that that's happening. But, you know, there's so many mechanisms
44:02that need to get lined up on what we've all been talking about. Like, bro, there's a lot to get
44:08figured out. You know, we all want to go back to work. We all don't want to get sick. We all don't
44:12want to get someone else sick. And we all don't want the work to suffer, because we have to cut
44:18corners in order to get through it. So,
44:21there you go. I think so much depends on these predicted waves, as they say. Like,
44:34are we going to have a second wave? Are we going to have a bunch of ripples? I mean, I'm also hearing
44:41August, September, I know that theaters are hoping to open by mid to late July. I think parts of the
44:50country will get back to normal sooner, but how long they're going to stay open is a big question,
44:56because if we do get a second wave, things will shut down again. You know, realistically,
45:03until we have a viable vaccine, and even with a vaccine, things won't be normal. But I just don't
45:12know how we can, in earnest, get back to shooting and doing what we normally have been doing. Not
45:22knowing if this water is going to come back stronger in the fall.
45:30I mean, the longer we wait, the better is, is just how it needs to be. And I think people are really
45:35impatient right now. And I totally understand. And I think, especially right now, there's a level of
45:40comfortability that's happening where, where, like, it's easier to go get food in the stores.
45:45It's easy. Things are, people are calming down a little bit. And I think it's easy in that level
45:51of being calm to be like, oh, wait, we can go back to work now, right? Or we can have some level of
45:56normalcy. And this is the moment. And if you look in the history of every single pandemic or anything,
46:02there's always this moment of, yeah, it's okay, let's go back to work. And then once again,
46:07another spike of infections happen and deaths and all this stuff. So I think we're in this
46:12uncomfortable time where we really want to go back to some sort of normalcy. But I mean, I still,
46:19I know for my production, we're, you know, we're supposed to prep in late August and then start in
46:24September. And I still think that's subject to change. And I know, because it's an HBO production
46:30and A24. And they're super serious about it. I mean, they, they absolutely will push it more
46:34if we need to. So I take everything with the biggest, like boulder of salt right now,
46:42with that kind of stuff. Sounds huge.
46:47It's big. Yeah. I mean, I'm hearing prepping, like starting to prep something. And that would be
46:59late July to possibly film late fall, early winter. So depending on the size of the project,
47:08you know, those that have a lot of prep built into it are probably might put their toe in the water
47:15and know that they would have to hiatus, but might at least like get the ball rolling so that, you know,
47:22things happen. I think until testing is something we do, we can't even think about it.
47:31I think I'm grateful to be in California, because it feels like we're actually getting stuff figured out.
47:37Our governor is being very safe. There are testing, you could go get a test right now if you really
47:43wanted to. And I think that that's, if, if we're at that level where we can let the general public have
47:50tests, then you know, the studios and whatnot are like, what do we need to do to get it to a better
47:57stage? I think we'll keep things small, but I am, I'm, I'm optimistic. I'm a two entertainment field
48:07household. So we don't really have an income until one of us works. And so I hope things are
48:14going to happen. But I don't know. Yeah, I sort of feel the same. I, you know, I think one of the
48:21things for post at the moment is there is still work going through. And a lot of us are still busy
48:26for the coming weeks, that works going to run out. But there is work around at the moment, and
48:32people are figuring out creative ways to finish it. But the other thing that I sort of foresee is
48:38that there will be smaller projects. And I think, you know, this directors who I've worked with over
48:43the years who are talking about documentary work or archive work, things that they can just actively
48:48work on that will, you know, will result in work for all of us on a small scale. And I think there'll be
48:56some interesting, creative stuff made in that way. So that's kind of it's exciting on one level.
49:02Yeah, it's exciting just to see what people will come up with in those limitations. And
49:08so I think there is optimum, like optimistically, there's definitely work that's going to happen
49:14in this time, and it will just be smaller and more unusual, I think, than what we're used to. And it'll be,
49:20you know, inspired by these lockdown conditions. So that'll be very interesting to see what comes
49:26out of that. And then I think, I mean, realistically, I'm hearing the same any of the work that I was
49:31sort of looking to go on to in the next few months, bigger production wise, is all sort of staying
49:36August, September. And I suppose, ultimately, what's going to happen for the industry is there's going
49:42to be a moment where a lot of stuff goes into production. Hopefully, that's sooner rather than later.
49:47But it does feel like there is going to be at the far end of this, there's going to be a lot of work.
49:53You know, so if we can all figure out a way to sort of survive this sort of low, there's definitely
50:00going to be work on the far side of it. And I think that's a real positive. I think hearing that movie
50:05theatres are trying to figure out ways to reopen. I know that some of the Scandinavian countries, they're
50:10going to reopen with limited capacity. So maybe one person per three seats or whatever, it's just,
50:17it's nice to hear that those things will continue. Because I think once we can come out of our
50:22houses, it would be nice to be able to go to a movie theatre, see some work, support the industry,
50:28and see that thing that we all love seeing, which is something on the big screen. So, you know, I think
50:34hopefully we're moving in the right direction. And I do, I really hope that the powers that be will be
50:40cautious about it. Because I think the worst thing that could happen would be that suddenly,
50:44it's just open season. And then you do risk a second wave. And the most important thing is that
50:51people stay safe and well, so that we can go back to work when we're, you know, when, when everything
50:56allows us to work.
50:59It's interesting, you know, I was thinking, as you listen to everybody talk about it, that like,
51:03the first set of jobs, where people could go back to work, presumably are sort of office type jobs,
51:10where people don't necessarily have to interact so much face to face. But then also, those are the
51:15people who don't need to go back to the office as much because they're all getting work done from
51:18home like this. Yeah. So for us. Any other thoughts, closing remarks, advice? Stay safe.
51:30Yeah, I guess stay home. Keep experimenting with different zoom backgrounds, you know.
51:37Let's keep trying different corners. I don't know, like the kitchen is right there. So I'm like, you know,
51:41it's a whole different game. So Kabir, what's your favorite zoom background so far?
51:45Uh, I'm digging this one that just came over here earlier. Uh, you know, it was like previously
51:50facing out the window, which is nice. You can see some trees, but it was also kind of blown out
51:53from behind. So it was depending on the time of day. Um, I don't know, man, I'm just trying to stay
51:58creative for this. Do you think, do you think that it, do you think that people will fly less,
52:04like for in our industry, do you think for meetings and stuff, this will become a bit more normal and
52:09people will fly less, which potentially is good for the environment or, you know, just
52:14maybe a better way for us to do business on some level, if we can.
52:19I hope California picks that up and stay home for a change because a lot of us, like I have a,
52:27my one child is in a French Lisée that's in every city so that if we get a work commitment,
52:34we can move him and not mess up his school.
52:36Oh, cool.
52:38You have to think in that way, like, okay, in two years or three years or in five years,
52:43am I doing a project that I really, my heart wants to do, but I don't want to screw up my kids.
52:50So, you know, that choice.
52:53I mean, I think it's going to, it's going to be so weird to see, um,
52:57you know, there's so many businesses that actually are functioning this way
53:01and it's going to be hard for them to justify.
53:04You know, I just imagine that the employees being like,
53:07are you sure you need me to come to work?
53:08Because we've been working this way for the last eight months now.
53:10Right.
53:11And everything's fine.
53:12Right.
53:13Yeah.
53:13And why bother, you know, I mean, maybe me every once in a while, but why bother,
53:18why bother putting yourself through commuting and, and polluting the environment,
53:22polluting your, your body with just the time and, you know, the extra couple hours a day driving,
53:27especially in Los Angeles.
53:28It's just like, I do hope there's a shift around that after this.
53:33I mean, sometimes I wish I could work from home as well in my line of work, but I can't,
53:37but it's like, still, I would just hope that there is a shift with like the necessity of needing to
53:42drive to a location every day to fulfill some sort of work need.
53:47I definitely think there'll be less travel. And if anything, runaway production for those that
53:55work in the major US cities, like LA and New York, you know, maybe there will be less
54:03temptation to work on location, at least for the time being. But to go back to the question about
54:10thoughts moving forward. And, and Kirsten touched on this at the beginning, I think this is,
54:18you know, I mean, hopefully, those of us that can just speak out in existence with our savings
54:27for the time being, make the most of this time that we have off right now to better ourselves,
54:34better health. Think about the health of the planet, think about common decency among people
54:43in general. And hopefully we can emerge from this whole experience stronger and more enlightened.
54:51That's really the only thing we can do right now. I don't know how long this is going to last, but,
54:57you know, I, I am very optimistic that we will get beyond this. The question is, when?
55:06And I hope to speak on that, John, I hope that that takeaway that we get from this time right now,
55:11we can bring back to work with us and sort of create, because I feel like what we're going to
55:17be forced to do is to work with each other a lot more on supporting each other's departments
55:22when we're back to set. And I really, I really hope, like what everyone's sort of kind of going
55:28through right now and the takeaway from that can be applied to work when we do go back. And I,
55:33you know, everyone keeps on saying the term, like, when things are back to normal, and I,
55:37I don't want things to go back to the way they were, I want to move forward. And I want things to be
55:43better for everyone. So I think, just like, as you said, I hope that, you know, we can take that away and
55:49support each other as a community better on set, you know, in our workplace.
55:54Better ourselves during this time and better the whole planet as a result.
56:00Yeah, exactly.
56:02Well said. And thank you, everybody, for joining us. And please stay safe. And to our viewers,
56:08we're going to be doing this again tomorrow, we're going to have another panel, and we'll be talking
56:12about issues like that. So please join us. And in the meantime, everybody, please stay safe.
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