- 6 hours ago
'Lessons in Chemistry' director Millicent Shelton, costume designer Mirren Gordon-Crozier and stars Brie Larson and Aja Naomi King sat down with The Hollywood Reporter's Brande Victorian during a special THR Emmys panel discussion.
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00:00Well, hello, everyone. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Brandi Victorian with The
00:11Hollywood Reporter. I know no one here really needs an introduction from the applause, but I
00:16am going to let everyone just say who they are and their role on this project before we jump
00:20into the Q&A. I'm Bree Larson, and I play Elizabeth Thott.
00:30Hi, my name is Asia Naomi King, and I played Harriet Sloan.
00:39Hi, my name is Millicent Shelton. I am the director of the P. Rowe episode.
00:47My name is Maren Gordon-Crosier, and I'm the costume designer.
00:54Thank you all so much for being here with us. Bree, I want to start with you, and I thought
00:59I knew everything about this project, but I felt like upstairs you just shared something
01:02I didn't, which is that you had been shopping and trying to get this made for a long time.
01:07What was it that you believed in about this project so much that you didn't let it go?
01:13Oh, gosh. I just think this story, Bonnie's book had it all. It just had it all. It's so
01:19rare to find something that is this vessel to be able to talk about so many different things
01:24so effortlessly. It's about love. It's about the human condition. To me, this is a huge story about
01:31how when our heart breaks, we still can find a way to persevere and carry on and love again.
01:38And there's also all these nooks and crannies of Elizabeth and her life, her struggles with work,
01:45with being a parent. It's so rare to be able to tell a story that's this big
01:51in eight episodes and also with so much care and buoyancy. It was so easy to love it, and it was
01:58so easy to fight for it. That's what love is.
02:01Yes. And I love how you prepared for this. As you said, so many nooks and crannies to Elizabeth
02:06as a chemist, but also as a cooking show host. We see you were talking to scientists about this.
02:12You also cooked some homemade meals from scratch for friends and family. What was preparation like
02:17for you? Well, I will say, I don't know if I've talked about this yet, so here we go.
02:23We'll see how this works out. Fun fact, when we were very close to getting the show made and we
02:31needed to get a deal done in a very short amount of time, I said to our friends at Apple, if you can
02:36get this done in time, I will make lasagnas for everyone. And I thought that that would be
02:41not that difficult because I'm like, I've made a lasagna before. What's 20 lasagnas versus one?
02:47It's very different and it's very hard. And I had to use massive big pots in my kitchen
02:54and it took me an entire weekend, but it was worth it. And I thought also once the deal was done,
03:01no one was going to remember, but they were like, we'll take our lasagnas now. I was like,
03:03oh shoot, I got to go to the store. So cooking was a huge part of the preparation for the show.
03:08It was my friends and family have very fondly said that this is the best job I've ever prepped
03:14because they gained a lot from all of the food I was cooking. But there were so many great things.
03:19Talking with Mirren, getting to understand like her costuming, the period of time is a huge part of
03:25it. These are things that matter when you start to understand how Elizabeth would have dressed,
03:30how she walks, how she talks, hair, makeup, speaking with scientists, cooking in the kitchen,
03:35learning more about what it takes to be in a lab. All of these things, like you're just chip
03:40away at it every day. And then one day you're like, oh, there she is.
03:44And Asia, I'm coming to you next. I love your casting story because when I've talked to Brie
03:50before, when I talked to Lee Eisenberg, the showrunner, I mean, they both were like,
03:53we saw her and we had to have her, which meant, you know, rewriting this character, Harriet,
03:58from the book to fit you. You know, what did that mean to you? And then what was the experience
04:03like of getting to shape this new character that also added this additional context of
04:08what was happening in the world at that time?
04:10Ah, that I, and I, I have to give so much credit to, to Brie and to Lee for, for really
04:18wanting to bring me on in that capacity to, to really expand the world. Um, it was, sorry,
04:27this is like very emotional, like just being under this thing. It's my first time just
04:33going to be like, and I'm like, wow, this is, this is just such a, oh,
04:41wow, this is real. Um, I just never thought,
04:57I could have never imagined this show, um, this gift of an experience, this character,
05:03this beautiful character that we got to create together, um, giving me so, so much. Um,
05:10when they talked about wanting to expand this world and, and have Harriet and, and tell the story
05:17of the Sugar Hill community, I, I thought it was phenomenal, but I, I was also so kind of afraid
05:23that it was lip service, you know, it could have ended up just being one scene. And instead it ended
05:30up just being this rich tapestry of what this woman's life was and what her family and friends
05:38meant to her, what community meant to her. And being that they were able to share like motherhood and,
05:45and being able to really rely on one another and getting to see the depth of love in female
05:51friendship specifically and what that can mean, like, it was, it was just, it was phenomenal. And my,
05:58my mind is still blown and I'm just so grateful that I got to be a part of telling this story.
06:04The Emmy nominee right there. Well, I do want to spend some time, um, on episode six, uh, which
06:21Millicent is nominated for outstanding director, um, of that episode. Yes. Um, and it's really,
06:27I mean, a big point in the relationship between Elizabeth and, um, Harriet, but I also know from
06:34talking with Kat Smith, the production designer, it was no easy feat pulling off, you know, the protest
06:39that happens there. What was the undertaking of this episode like for you? Well, first of all,
06:47I have to give thanks to Alyssa and to Lee who created the script and it was, I mean, it was just a
06:53work of art. And my big thing was that I can't mess this up. I have to do justice to what this,
06:59this script is saying and the beauty of it and the depth of it. So that was really important. Um,
07:05oddly enough, this protest was real, but there's no photographic evidence of it. And we had a historian
07:14that we talked to and I did lots of research, could not find a picture anywhere, which was crazy.
07:21So it had to be something that, you know, just going off of historically what a protest would
07:28have been like at that period of time. And as much as we read, um, we decided to base it like off of
07:35that. And I think the biggest thing, the undertaking, and you two both have tears in your eyes, so I'm not
07:41going to look at you anymore. Um, the biggest undertaking is that we wanted to make sure that
07:47we showed this and made it feel real. And we didn't just try to recreate a protest and to exploit
07:57it, that it was triggering. And I know you guys remember it was highly triggering on the day. It was
08:04triggering for the crew. Um, everybody brought their A game and these two women I have to be so thankful
08:11for because they were the heart and everything around it. I think that people are reacting to was
08:18because we approached it from the inside out. So it wasn't just being outside watching, um, black pain and
08:25trauma. It was from the inside. It was because we knew your character and we knew the love and the friendship
08:32that you two had. And in the end, when you, when, when, when Elizabeth is crying, it's because she
08:39understands. And we, in the most beautiful way, we, we were able to build a gap between, um, when you are
08:49discriminated against because you are a female and when you are discriminated against because of the color of your
08:55skin and how much alike that hurt is and that pain. And I think as friends, they understood it.
09:02And that was our goal. And I think the universality of being able to tell that story, um, was really
09:08rich and wonderful.
09:10And I would love if both of you could also speak to that because, you know, Harriet challenges
09:15Elizabeth in that moment. Um, you know, she's dealing with her sexism on the job, but you're
09:19like, there's a whole other subset of women that you're not thinking about. But what's it like for
09:24you? You know, that scene in the kitchen.
09:25No, I mean, that was, that was great because like you said, there's such a love. And I think for me, like that
09:36scene in the kitchen is, is so much of like, I love you so much. I need you to understand me. I need you to hear
09:44me. And, and because they are so connected and the, like, I know for me, like there was a big part of
09:50that where this had to be done with so much clarity and tenderness because like they've been building this
09:59community with one another in this relationship with, with each other for years at this point. And, and there
10:04is a second hand and there is a kind of stillness in this scene that is, that is really beautiful.
10:12There's a quiet to it that, that you just, you feel how, how pressing it is in that moment that if you
10:19can't understand this, it will, it will destroy everything we've built together.
10:24It's one of my favorite scenes of the whole series, I have to say. And it was the scene that
10:33made me feel sick. I feel like Millicent, a lot of the time you were just like, all right,
10:40Bree, you got to take it. You got to sit in it. You got to sit in it. And I was like, oh,
10:44it feels so bad. It's like, but that was the work of it. And those are the scenes. It seems like that,
10:50that it makes my job a true pleasure because it feels like we get to model a loving dynamic about
11:00something that's really difficult. And that felt really powerful and it felt incredible that we
11:06were able to do that. And it felt so true and complicated and honest. And yeah, that was one
11:14of those days where you're like, that's that whole episode was like, this is, we're digging into
11:18ourselves and like staring into what is really difficult and it's worth doing.
11:24But I applaud both of you for not running away from that because those emotions aren't easy.
11:30I mean, I know everybody thinks they are actresses and they're wonderful actresses,
11:34but being able to feel that dumped on, to feel that pain, it's not easy to do that. And
11:42they're exceptional and they were willing to go there. And I am so thankful.
11:48I'm going to skip a ride a little bit. Let's get a little nice.
11:58Maren, I'm coming to you. I wore green today because I know it's Elizabeth's color
12:03and it's a color that you kept throughout this series. But tell me about first day,
12:10knowing you were going to work on this project. How did you approach wardrobe from that point?
12:13Um, well, I mean, obviously it's like a dream project for me doing a period TV show, which
12:19is not like, not even, you know, it's not three months of work, it's six months of work. And so
12:24I just was able to delve into so much research and, um, also getting into, obviously there's so
12:32many good, great characters and getting into the characters and what they would wear and not having
12:37a lot of like photographic evidence. Well, yeah, there's just so many different aspects of the
12:42script and, um, storylines. And it was like really a dream come true. I would do it over a million times.
12:50Yeah. And I will just add, this is my fifth, this is my fifth or sixth project with the
12:56fifth. And I've known her 10 years longer. Short term. We started on, we met on short term 12
13:05and she's just somebody that it was once we were making the show, I was like, you're coming with
13:12me. Brie brought me, you know, brought my name into the lessons and always. Well, you said, yeah,
13:20um, we see why. Yeah. I owe my life to her. Well, I owe my life to you too. So it kind of goes both ways.
13:28And I want to talk in episode five, I think it's Elizabeth's first time coming out on set of the
13:33cooking show. She has this pink floral dress on and she's like, I can't even move my arms to cook,
13:39you know, and it's this dress because the whole thing is, you know, it's what the executives think,
13:43you know, she should be wearing as a woman. And then she comes back glasses, pencil behind her
13:47ear and those lab coats that became her signature style. How did you come up with that? Um, well,
13:54coming up with the pink floral dress was fun. Cause I mean, at first I think it was just like a rip
13:59and then we wanted to create a way to make her art stay down, which is not very good for cooking. And so,
14:06um, yeah, we thought that was like a great like silhouette for that moment. And the hair was so
14:13good. Um, and then obviously the lab coats were, you know, a joy of mine because started at Hastings
14:22with her utilitarian lab coat that she wore for work. And then you had her home cooking lab coat. Um,
14:30uh, and so obviously Zot realized that's far better than an apron and why wouldn't you wear
14:36a lab coat instead of an apron? And so she brought that to a separate six and, um, and then we kind
14:45of had fun from then on. And I would love if like all of you could talk about how important wardrobe
14:51was for helping you, you know, center as your characters for helping you in directing and visualizing,
14:56um, you know, what you were shooting. 1932. We had to recreate for the Perot episode 1932. And it was,
15:06you were huge. I mean, it, it started with just the color palette that made me start thinking about,
15:13oh, 1932 is different from 1950. And then what does that mean? And so I think you created fabric
15:21or something. Um, yeah, we, we may have, yes, we did. We printed, um, printed fabric.
15:29That's crazy. Yeah.
15:31But, what, what, what, wonderful. Yeah. And it was, but it all started with the conversation with you
15:37about, well, what is their color palette in 1932? And I was like, oh, I gotta think about that.
15:42And then it transferred over into the production design of what is our color palette for 1932? And how
15:49are we going to distinguish that from the 1950s? And 1930, the 1930s was a time of the depression.
15:55And how are we going to give these characters depth and, and in a very short time in flashbacks?
16:02So it all started with you and it came down to makeup saying, you know, how much dirt is going
16:07to be on their teeth? And I was like, oh, but it all started with the conversation about wardrobe.
16:14So, but I also want to talk about, you know, the love story that's kind of at the center
16:18of this series. You know, I sat down planning to binge watch Lessons in Chemistry, like I do
16:23everything. Then I got to the end of episode two, you know, with Calvin's death. I had to walk away.
16:27Like I needed a day, I think actually. Um, you know, what was it like for you, I guess, building
16:33that chemistry with Louis, um, and then kind of going into this series of grief. And did you shoot
16:39the episodes in sequence? Well, yeah, we shoot, so we, they were in blocks. So like episode
16:44one and two were a one month block together, um, three and four in a block, you know, with
16:50each block, we had a different director. What I didn't anticipate because we were sort of
16:55building the plane as we were flying it is that how much changes in Elizabeth's life
17:00every two episodes. Um, and so in particular, when you're first starting a job, you're just
17:07kind of trying to find what feels good and what fits. And you're kind of in the sense
17:12of like feeling like you're trying to find the character still and drowning a little
17:16bit and figuring all these things out. And then with this show, it was like, once I started
17:20to feel comfortable, it was like, I, you know, that director's gone, that DP is gone. A lot
17:26of that cast is gone. You're not in that set anymore. Say goodbye to those sets that like
17:31I helped like bring to life for so many years that it turned about for so long, those are
17:35gone. And on top of it, you're playing a character who's just suffering. Um, and so I felt a lot
17:42of fear and a lot of anticipation going into that second block. Um, and there were conversations
17:48I had with Lee quite a bit where I was like, I am resisting change. Um, it's so scary. I feel
17:55like I've barely found my footing and I was just getting comfortable in my 1950s Christmas
18:00and like, don't take that away from me. And, and then it was like, I remember Lee specifically
18:07saying you have Asia, that's who's coming. You have Alice that's coming. And I did have
18:15like the, I was able to have a little bit of a crystal ball in that way. But what a, what
18:20I learned from that is, you know, we would do maybe, maybe six scenes a day or something
18:27like that. And, and I would be in a large majority of those. And so you're kind of in
18:31this condensed period of time, but it's all kind of moving around. I'm in college and
18:35then it's Christmas. And then, you know, I'm in Hastings and I'm writing a paper or whatever,
18:38all these things. And you're just trying to survive scene to scene to scene present, present,
18:43present with all these people coming in and out. And I noticed that I would do a scene
18:48that was really brutal to do, maybe really sad to do. And you'd go like, okay, well in
18:53two hours, it's going to be over. And then you do a scene that felt really good. And you're
18:56like, wait, but in two hours, it's going to be over. And so I felt like I got this extreme
19:01experience of understanding and grappling with time and that it is going. And so it again,
19:09just brought me back to being in whatever it was that I was doing and knowing that if it
19:14was bad, it was going to be over. If it was good, it was going to be over. And then I
19:18started to really enjoy it. And I felt like it became a really big theme and fabric of
19:22the show.
19:24And I know when I talked to you before, you know, you mentioned how Elizabeth is not
19:28emotional. And you're an ICO. I'm like, oh, you are crying.
19:32I'm super.
19:33Yeah, I did.
19:34I'm incredibly emotional. Yeah. No.
19:38Cry over everything.
19:40Yeah.
19:41Cry over today.
19:44I think I'm always emotional. And then my job, I think, is just like over these years,
19:48it's like I'm so things are so available to be felt. And and so then to play a character
19:54who was just like stuffing it, it was the physical. It was physically painful for me.
20:00It made me feel not not good. I don't recommend holding in your feelings. I tried it. It doesn't
20:05feel very good.
20:07Well, Asia, I'm curious for you. I mean, Millicent kind of shared a story of in the protesting of
20:14like your face and kind of like holding back, you know, the tears that Harriet would probably
20:19want to let out, but felt she couldn't. I'm curious for you tapping into that. Or were there
20:24other moments where you felt it was hard to tap into her or just difficult for you?
20:28It's so funny. I know actors probably say this a lot and because it's true. It's like your body
20:39doesn't know you're pretending. Right. And it's like if you've ever been to a protest, which I have
20:45there, there is a feeling that comes over you where it is this shared experience and
20:56it can feel so painful. And yet, because you're not alone, so soothing all at the same time,
21:05there is something about that togetherness that is incredibly meaningful, even though the thing
21:12that you are fighting to protect hurts. And that was really just in the air that day. I mean,
21:23it was, it was kind of funny actually, because we got into that space, you know, where we're
21:28blocking off a freeway and everyone kept being like, we don't have a lot of time. We don't have
21:32a lot of time. And then it was like, but let's do it right. You know, it was really like, let's do it
21:40right. And like, and everything from like the start of the chant, like that, like Millicent,
21:46like made sure I got to lead the chant, so that we were all together, we were all starting together.
21:54And she definitely surprised us with some of the stunt choreography that occurred. So those reactions
22:07for us were very real. You know, my best, but not my best memory. My strongest memory of this
22:15is Asia coming up to me and saying, you can't do that without letting us know.
22:22I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I thought I told you.
22:25You didn't know.
22:26They didn't know the woman who gets stomped on was a stunt. And what happened is when we first
22:33started doing it, the stunt actors were very, very downplaying it. They didn't want to pull
22:39anybody. They didn't want to be rough. And I said, but you have to be rough. We have to recreate
22:44what really happened. You have to grab them. And then the extras were like, but I would fight back.
22:50And I was like, you can't fight back. This is nonviolence. You absolutely cannot. You have to stay
22:55strong because we are representing history at this moment. So I was like pushing in points. I was
23:00telling the extras and everybody to like, don't react, like stay calm and stay strong. And then I
23:07was pushing the stunt guys to like elevate, elevate, elevate. And there is this moment where it all came
23:13together. And I had hidden two stunt people in the extras and I had failed to tell them, which was not
23:24intentional. And originally they just had pulled the woman out. And I was like, that's not enough.
23:32And I was like, throw her to the ground. And so they did that. And then that's still not enough.
23:38Yeah. And then he stomped on her and it was right. And it was, it was, we helped, like, we, like,
23:46we reached for each other so quickly. Cause we were like, wait a minute. Like, because Brie is very
23:51big on, like, Brie is very protective of all of us actors on set. Like, she'll be like, cut. What,
23:58wait, are you okay? Like, wait a minute. You know what? Like with me, she was like, oh, do you need a
24:04hat for your knees? Like, you know, like just very, we know we're going to do this over and over
24:08again. We have to look out for one another. And like, we take that responsibility seriously because
24:14we, we know that everyone wants to give it their all, but we never want anyone being harmed in the
24:21process. That's, that's very important. So of course, watching that, observing that it was like,
24:27oh my God, wait a minute. Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? And it feels like we were at it.
24:31She was bad. Yes. I mean, she did. I mean, no, we, we talked to her afterwards.
24:35She was, she was perfectly fine. It was great. And she was just amazing.
24:41She's an amazing actor. She was so amazing and just incredible. Just, just incredible.
24:50That was one of the things that I walked away being like, there's just such talent and, and people
24:56that want, that just believed in the seriousness of that moment and, and giving their all to depict
25:02what this was. And that's like, what, as artists, that's like the respect that we take to that. And
25:08we don't always get the opportunity to do it. And it was just, there was so much respect in that room.
25:12And I just, it was, it was heavy and it was, but it also felt like we were so together, to your point.
25:19We were making jokes when we could to try and let off some of that scene. Cause we're doing it for a
25:25long time, but we were, we were so connected and it was, it was, um, yeah. And that's, and that's why
25:32I got to walk away from it feeling like this is beautiful. Like what we did was beautiful because
25:38it was authentic. And we honored the experience of the people that, that really lived through this.
25:44And that matters, you know, you can't, you can't, there was, there was not going to be any kind of
25:50erasure here or, you know, we're not rewriting history to make it seem as if these things didn't
25:57occur. Like it's, it's important to honor the story and be honest about it without leaning into,
26:04like you said, any kind of like trauma porn or something like that. It's like, we weren't like
26:08being belligerent with it, but we were being honest. And that's what made it beautiful and real
26:13and true. And, and that's an important part of storytelling or else, what are we doing here?
26:21Yeah. I was like, there's nothing else to read.
26:23I was like, when she talked to her, I was so in love with her,
26:27it's going to bring me to tears now.
26:30Thank you all so much for being here and congratulations on the Emmy nominations across the board.
26:36And thank you all for being here as well. Thank you.
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