„Kriminalität gibt es überall“: Rama fordert EU-Beitritt für Albanien

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„Kriminalität gibt es überall“: Rama fordert EU-Beitritt für Albanien  Der albanische Premierminister Edi Rama betont, Albanien verdiene einen Platz am EU-Tisch. Reformen und die Unterstützung der Bevölkerung sprächen dafür. Kriminalität und Korruption seien Probleme – „auch in Brüssel“, so Rama.  LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2025/11/24/rama-eu-beitritt-albanien  Abonnieren Sie! Euronews gibt es in 12 Sprachen.

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00:00Das war die Europäische Gespräche für die Europäische Gespräche.

00:08Meine Guest für diese Europäische Gespräche ist Albania's Prime Minister, Edi Rama.

00:12Sir, danke für dich, dass du uns bist.

00:15Du bist in Brüssel, holding talks über die Europäische Union und die Europäische Union.

00:22So die Frage ist, warum Albania will sich ein EU-Member sein?

00:26Because it is what we always wanted and that we finally can.

00:32So we came from a very long way and we were under different empires.

00:43And finally, of our own choice, we want to join this empire.

00:52Oh, you consider it an empire, the European Union?

00:56Of course.

00:57In what way?

00:59An empire, in all the ways. A nice one.

01:03A nice one. So, well, here's the thing.

01:05The question why I ask you why now is you say it's a nice empire,

01:10but of course it has been a very difficult three years now for the European Union.

01:15Obviously, the war in Ukraine is having a lot of impact in the European conversation.

01:19We've also seen this moment of either radical change for the EU or slow agony.

01:24Mario Draghi said that.

01:25So has the EU lost some of the gloss around it or you still believe there is still an opportunity?

01:32Listen, there are different things you are asking about.

01:36So on one hand, it's about how we see it and on the other hand, it's about how Europe should see itself in this new world.

01:50When it comes to how we see it, we see it as the only place we want to be

01:57because it's the only place where certain things that we fought for are going to be guaranteed.

02:08And I'm talking about freedom.

02:10I'm talking about equality in front of the law.

02:14I'm talking about democracy in general.

02:17From my own angle, very humbly, I would say that Europe, it's not that Europe has lost something,

02:30it's that Europe should gain something.

02:33And when you look at the situation, however, in Europe, obviously the war is still going on.

02:38You say very humbly, I'm not going to tell the EU what they need to do

02:41because right now you're not a member of the EU, but you also said, I have my views of what Europe should be.

02:46What do you think the war in Ukraine is going to do to this continent?

02:51Well, the war on Ukraine is beyond Ukraine in a way.

03:01It's a very brutal signal of changing worlds, of gathering storms of geopolitics

03:13and of different ballgame in the international arena.

03:23And for that, Europe needs to come out with an approach that is not based on the old new normal

03:38because it's not going to come back, but it's based on how to make sure that it will not become irrelevant.

03:52So, the war in Ukraine is a big test for all of us in many ways.

04:01And first and foremost, I believe in how much Europe will be able to, at the end,

04:10be a driving force for peace and not a force of war.

04:20You said it will depend on largely how this war ends, the reflection in Europe.

04:27If there's a bad deal in Ukraine, is that going to make Europe weaker?

04:30And is that a union that you want to be a part of, a weak union?

04:32Listen, it all depends.

04:36It all depends in this case because, let's face it, you know,

04:42it doesn't look very comforting that the European Union or Europe as such,

04:48the democratic Europe, has not yet a peace plan for Ukraine.

04:52And this does not mean to compromise on the territorial integrity

04:59or to recognize the result of aggression in any shape or form,

05:08but it means to find a way to combine the resistance to the aggression

05:16with a realistic peace plan and to make the outmost for offering both resilience, resistance,

05:27muscles in the arena and vision of the future, of a common future possibly,

05:38including Russia, when it comes to a path towards first peace and then cooperation.

05:48I know it looks like completely crazy to think in these terms today,

05:55but Europe has shown that enemies can become partners and partners can become friends.

06:05Of course, to go there, first and foremost, we all need to overcome the brutality of the aggression

06:15and to not reward the aggression, by no doubt.

06:18And that's interesting because a lot of the language that we hear coming out of Brussels

06:21says that Russia is now a threat for Europeans and there is no clear path

06:27in terms of normalizing relationships.

06:29Are you looking at Russia at a country that is, yes, a threat to Europeans?

06:33Or is there perhaps a way that you have to engage just because Russia is not going anywhere?

06:39Listen, the one does not exclude the other in my view.

06:46The Soviet Union was a threat to the world and to the United States,

06:51but Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, they found a way to build in the same time

07:01a very solid channel of communication and to start something completely new in the world scene.

07:11Same with the communist China at that time.

07:13Now, of course, I don't want to make comparisons that may not fit the purpose,

07:21but I simply want to say that while fighting, and rightly so, while supporting Ukraine, and rightly so,

07:32while thinking in terms of strength, and rightly so,

07:40Europe should also have its own plan of peace and should not give up diplomacy

07:47because outsourcing the European diplomacy and outsourcing the whatever type of peace

08:01that may come on the other side of the ocean, it doesn't seem to have been very rewarding so far.

08:09So when you say outsourcing, you mean to Trump?

08:11If there's no communication?

08:11No, I mean, no, but it's not to Trump.

08:15On the contrary, thanks to Trump, Europe rediscovered the word ceasefire,

08:22which seemed to be banned from the vocabulary with the previous administration.

08:29So, I mean, it doesn't matter whatever happens on the other side of the ocean

08:35or whomever is on the other side of the ocean, Europe should have its own peace plan

08:42and, of course, then harmonize and then integrate and so on.

08:47Where is it?

08:47So when you talk to your European counterparts and they say,

08:50we want a just and fair peace, you don't think there's any depth to that?

08:53No, I am not advocating any unjust or unfair peace.

08:58I'm simply saying that diplomacy should not be left behind, although there is a war.

09:06You know, don't forget, you know, Israel and Hamas were fighting to the teeth

09:15and they were communicating, they were negotiating, they were talking.

09:18So this is something normal and it's not a war somewhere, it's a war in Europe.

09:27And now going back to the reason why you're in Brussels,

09:32has it had any impact, the fact that there's this war going on,

09:35that now there's this real momentum on enlargement,

09:37is this impacting you in a positive way where you say,

09:39because of this war, now there's this impetus?

09:41If there had been no invasion of Ukraine, we would not be here,

09:44we would not be talking about this.

09:45It's very probable and it's sad.

09:49It's sad that...

09:50That it took a war.

09:50It's sad that it took a war to turn the very just and right words in real deeds

09:58because it has always been sad that the Western Balkans are strategically important

10:05for the European Union, that the future of the Western Balkans is the European Union,

10:10that one day we'll be together.

10:12But in the meantime, the process was quite disappointing in many ways.

10:20I must say that the aggression created a new energy.

10:31And this is also something very, you know, inspiring,

10:38as it is inspiring how Europe got together,

10:42as it is inspiring to read in the wall of this big building

10:46a very clear, you know, message of unity.

10:54And now you've entered what is now seen as almost a final stretch in negotiations

10:58and then it will become a political question, too,

11:00because you have to win over the 27 heads of state.

11:03Who do you consider your biggest ally?

11:04Because to me, when I see it from the outside,

11:07Giorgio Ameloni is your best friend in Europe, isn't she?

11:12Listen, I don't want to go there

11:16because it would not be fair to the very true

11:23and very generous friendship we are being offered by many in this part.

11:33You have a special chemistry.

11:34You can see it.

11:34What do you like about her?

11:36Yeah, you now are curious because she's a woman, you are a woman.

11:41But I must say that when it comes to Italy,

11:44there is something very special between Albania and Italy in general.

11:51And all the Italian prime ministers,

11:54independently from their political party

11:59or political colors of the government,

12:05they have been very good to us.

12:06And with Giorgia is a special chemistry.

12:10I cannot hide it because it's very visible, right?

12:15And more than that, beyond that,

12:19she is someone that is very much about doing things

12:26and not just saying things,

12:27which is not very typically Italian, I must say,

12:30but she is like that.

12:32And would you be better off

12:33if there were more leaders like Giorgia Ameloni?

12:35Listen, Giorgia is one of a kind

12:41and I'm not sure she can be replicated,

12:45but by no doubt,

12:47more women in leadership positions

12:50will help Europe to be stronger.

12:53And this is obvious when you see

12:56the president of the European Union Commission,

13:00when you see Giorgia,

13:02when you see Mata Fredrickson.

13:04So these women are incredibly strong

13:07and they make men look like they have to improve.

13:12And of course, when it comes to Albania,

13:14in a European context,

13:16we often hear it in the sentence,

13:18the Albanian model.

13:19I'm sure you know what that refers to.

13:21Obviously, this is a deal that you cut

13:22with regards to migration with the Italians.

13:25They now have set up this migration center

13:28and their jurisdiction is applied,

13:30but this is your land.

13:31When you hear the Albanian model,

13:33a lot of people assume or think of it

13:35as a loss of sovereignty of a country

13:37and that refers to yours.

13:38Is that unfair?

13:40What do you mean sovereignty?

13:41We are...

13:42To have police from another country,

13:44law from another country,

13:45migrants from another country.

13:48You know, Italy is not another country.

13:50Italy is, you know,

13:55the Albania we look forward to have.

13:59So Italians are Albanians dressed by Versace.

14:02So we are the same people.

14:05We speak two different languages.

14:07We are united by the same sea.

14:12We love many things.

14:14But when you hear the dark side of the Albanian model,

14:17what does that mean to you?

14:18Is that something that you go,

14:19it is unfair,

14:20and by the way,

14:20more countries would do this if they could?

14:23First of all, not with Albania

14:24because we can do it only with Italy,

14:27as I said, you know,

14:28because it's...

14:30There are many reasons for that.

14:32And on the other hand,

14:35I don't care what people say, you know.

14:38It's good that people can say things.

14:40You don't care about this perception

14:41of a country that traded a part of sovereignty.

14:43This is why we love freedom.

14:46This is why we want democracy

14:47because people can say whatever they want.

14:49You don't regret it in any way.

14:51You can do it again.

14:52No, what sovereignty, you know.

14:54Italians are at home in Albania,

14:58and we feel at home in Italy, so...

15:01The Italians don't apply your law.

15:03But it's up to them to apply their law

15:05in that piece of land

15:06where they have to manage this operation,

15:10which is theirs.

15:11And they asked us to do it.

15:14And we said, of course, you are welcome.

15:16It's your home.

15:17There's this idea that you are putting the police,

15:20the laws, and people from one country to another,

15:23and that you ceded part of your territory for that.

15:25In that specific area,

15:26it's almost a piece of Italy.

15:28Some would argue there's something wrong in that model,

15:31but at the same time,

15:32I wonder if you think there's a level of hypocrisy

15:34because more would do it if they could.

15:36No, I can't accuse anyone of hypocrisy.

15:39I simply think that people have different views,

15:42and sometimes people are jealous,

15:46but it's human.

15:47In this case, I don't know.

15:48I simply know that for us,

15:52it has been a due,

15:55so we had to do it because Italy asked us.

15:58And when Italy asks, we always say yes.

16:01And, you know, it's not just Georgia.

16:05It's Italy.

16:06And do you hope that that yes,

16:08when they ask, we say yes,

16:10that they are going to return the favor at some point?

16:13Some argue it's a transactional relationship in a way.

16:16No, there's no transactional relation between Italy and us

16:18because Italy has done for us a lot

16:23without any favor asked in return.

16:29And I'll never forget the day we were so down

16:37because an earthquake hit us very, very strongly.

16:42And the first to arrive in our help

16:46were the Italian firefighters.

16:52And they entered under the rubbles

16:55to save lives of people they didn't know.

16:59In a country, they put their feet for the first time

17:05and they did it like heroes.

17:09And Prime Minister, just a final question.

17:11You've said there's a lot of cliches.

17:12And stereotypes about what Albania is.

17:15I didn't say that.

17:16You've never said there.

17:17But I agree with you.

17:19No, you've never said it.

17:20Because I've saw this in a sentence where you said

17:22there's ideas.

17:22Somewhere, sometimes.

17:23Yes, there's ideas that have been presented about Albania

17:26that I find are a cliche or stereotypes

17:29of what Albanian people are.

17:30At the same time, some of your critics would argue

17:32what this collective imagination alludes to

17:35is this idea of perhaps mafias, crime, gangs.

17:38Is that something that you take serious and you say,

17:40well, it's not a stereotype.

17:41It's something we have to fight.

17:42And how do you do this dual path in which you change the narrative

17:47but also tackle issues like this?

17:49No, but the narrative has already changed

17:51and it's changing every day

17:53because now Albania is not anymore a mysterious shithole

17:59in the middle of Europe where everyone was imagining, you know,

18:05mafia and criminals and drugs and prostitutes

18:09and all the bad things.

18:13Now Albania is a shining example where millions and millions

18:19of Europeans come to visit and where they see that it's a piece of Europe

18:26that has to be part of the mosaic while in the same time

18:32do we have still issues with organized crime?

18:37Yes, we do.

18:39Who don't?

18:39Look at this city.

18:40This city is, you know, an example.

18:46And still there are great things happening here.

18:49Do we have issues with drugs?

18:52Who don't?

18:52Then, of course, we need to fight.

18:55And the fight will never end as the example of Europe shows.

18:59Europe has fought drugs all the way

19:03but drugs are still in Europe

19:05and the fight goes on.

19:08And the commission also made that point

19:09so you agree on that specifically too

19:12and the recommendations.

19:13So, Prime Minister...

19:14I agree with all the recommendations.

19:16I've never seen anything more objective,

19:20more brutally...

19:21So it was a good report.

19:22More brutally truthful

19:24and more amazingly inspiring

19:26than the European Commission report.

19:27We leave for this book.

19:29Well, we'll tell the commissioners

19:30you'll be happy to see someone read it start to end.

19:32They know, they know.

19:34And we have some people

19:35that read it from the beginning to the end.

19:37I don't know how they survived it,

19:38but they do.

19:39And I just adore them

19:42and I live for this book.

19:44Looking at this book getting better and better

19:47is the legacy of my political life.

19:51Well, on that note, Prime Minister,

19:52thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.

19:54Thank you.

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