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‘If not us, who else?’: EU Commissioner sees no alternative to Mediterranean Pact
EU Commissioner Dubravka Šuica has defended the new Pact for the Mediterranean against criticism that the initiative would be dead on arrival due to diverging interests between the European Union and Arab states in the south.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/11/18/if-not-us-who-else-eu-commissioner-sees-no-alternative-to-mediterranean-pact
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EU Commissioner Dubravka Šuica has defended the new Pact for the Mediterranean against criticism that the initiative would be dead on arrival due to diverging interests between the European Union and Arab states in the south.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/11/18/if-not-us-who-else-eu-commissioner-sees-no-alternative-to-mediterranean-pact
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Europe Conversation. I'm Stefan Grober.
00:12My guest today is Dubravka Suica, EU Commissioner for the Mediterranean.
00:17And as a former mayor of the Croatian coastal city of Dubrovnik, she knows what she's talking about.
00:23Commissioner, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
00:26Thank you for having me today.
00:27So let's kick it off with the new pact for the Mediterranean that the European Commission presented a few weeks ago.
00:34What is the pact all about and why should we take it seriously?
00:39The pact is genuine pact, which means it's not only yet another document.
00:45It is pact which we want to have with the southern neighbors.
00:49We already have different documents, agendas, so on.
00:52But this time we want to have a real partnership and we want to have these people as partnerships of equal, which means that we changed the approach this time.
01:03We asked these people and we consulted all 10 member states plus Gulf countries.
01:10And we didn't consult only governments, but also think tanks, academia, non-governmental organizations in order to have this pact.
01:20Because at one stage, people in the Mediterranean felt a little bit left behind because our highlight was on Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Western Balkans.
01:32Yeah, you were just alluding to it that we're already 30 years ago with the beginning of the Barcelona process.
01:38Then was the union for the Mediterranean, the new agenda for the Mediterranean.
01:42None of these things yielded any sizable results.
01:46Why should we be looking forward to seeing something different now?
01:51We put people at the center.
01:54We consulted people.
01:56And we also we are talking about economies, how to invite European companies to invest in that part of the world in order to develop them.
02:07So we are changing paradigm.
02:10They are not only receivers of our donations, but we want to help them to develop their industries, to develop their countries and to open new jobs.
02:22By opening new jobs, we are somehow tackling root causes of migration.
02:28So we are opening legal pathways for those who want to come to Europe.
02:31But at the same time, we are opening new jobs for these young people.
02:36You know that I'm also in charge of demography, so it is very important to put demography in balance.
02:42You know that they are booming in that part of the world.
02:44We are shrinking here in Europe.
02:46So it is very important to balance this.
02:48So by having these people here in Europe, it's not to create brain drain there.
02:54It's to have brain circulation and it's to give opportunity for those who are skilled and who are educated to come here,
03:03but at the same time to stay in their countries and to develop their countries.
03:09It's in fact a completely new philosophy around the Mediterranean.
03:12You know that we need energy.
03:15You know that we want to change to renewable energies.
03:18You know that we want to decarbonize the region.
03:20So if we decarbonize the region from this side, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus,
03:28but if we don't use the same standards in the southern part of the Mediterranean,
03:33then the sea and the Mediterranean region will be polluted again.
03:37So we want to, by doing all this, we have win-win-win-win situation,
03:43opening new jobs, developing these countries, decarbonizing the region.
03:48So everything is there?
03:50There are critics out there who have already said that this project is dead on arrival
03:55by pointing to the various countries that we're talking about here.
03:59So take Libya, for instance, where the Russians and the Turks are major players.
04:05Take Algeria, Lebanon, Tunisia, who haven't shown any interest in Europe.
04:09And then Morocco, with which Brussels is sort of at loggerheads over the Western Sahara.
04:15Don't we have too much on our plate here?
04:19Are these interests just too different?
04:21I can reply with counter-question.
04:26Who, if we are not there, so who will be there?
04:30So we understand that there is China, there is Russia, there are countries who have interest in this part of the world,
04:36but Europe wants to be present.
04:38And we are saying that, you know, that we are always paying and we are the biggest payers to these countries.
04:45We don't want to be only payers.
04:47We also want to be players.
04:49And this is why we are changing now.
04:51Of course, it's not easy always, but we will do our best.
04:55You know that we have strategic partnership agreements with Egypt, with Tunisia.
05:00We signed one with Jordan.
05:02We are now just about to sign deeper strategic partnership with Morocco,
05:06because they are our neighbors, and we want to be present there.
05:11And this is what we have been doing.
05:12Of course, it's not always easy.
05:14So I won't say that the project is dead.
05:17On the contrary, we will, of course, not celebrate,
05:21but mark 30th anniversary of Barcelona declaration on the 28th of this month.
05:28And this will be the moment to present this back to 10 southern neighbors,
05:33but also to 27 European member states.
05:36So it's up to us.
05:38It's up to us.
05:39So Ursula von der Leyen has said that the Commission's goal is progressive integration.
05:45Now, that seems a bit distant today.
05:50Can you name a few very concrete things about why people should be excited about this?
05:59So, of course, it's not about integration,
06:01but economic integration could come out from our cooperation with them.
06:07So it's also about skills and education.
06:13One of the most important flagship projects for me would be Mediterranean University.
06:19What is my goal?
06:20My goal is, and the goal of my colleagues,
06:22is to establish alliance or network of Mediterranean universities,
06:27starting from Beirut to Alexandria, Fès, Marseille, Barcelona, Naples and Greece.
06:37So to have curricula on Mediterranean at the existing universities.
06:42So we don't want to build new premises, but we want to connect young people from the region.
06:48By connecting young people, by studying about their background, about cultural heritage, about religion,
06:58we can come closer.
07:00And this is our main goal because Mediterranean, we want to have Mediterranean as the bridge,
07:05not as the conflict zone, which is at the moment.
07:09So we want to change the situation.
07:12And this is exactly why we are turning our attention to the Mediterranean.
07:16It's not only Mediterranean, it's also Gulf countries,
07:19although they are not geographically Mediterranean,
07:22but we badly need Gulf countries to have,
07:24we need them on board in order to have peace and security in the Mediterranean, of course.
07:29So this is something which we are trying to establish.
07:34Of course, it's also about migration.
07:36I don't want to shy away from migration,
07:39but we want to stop migration by doing this,
07:43by helping young people to develop,
07:47and by helping young people to be part of this process.
07:53There are many projects.
07:55For example, in Egypt.
07:56In Egypt, we pledged, European companies pledged,
08:00after we signed this comprehensive partnership agreement,
08:04we pledged 49 billion euros investments in Egypt.
08:09So the same goes for Tunisia.
08:11In Jordan, we are just about to start some projects.
08:14So this is something which is ongoing.
08:17Morocco, you mentioned Morocco versus Sahara.
08:19We found a solution, and we are on good terms with our colleagues in Morocco.
08:25And I, we are looking forward to deepening this agreement.
08:29Speaking of solutions, and let me now pivot to the Middle East,
08:32which is also part of the Mediterranean family.
08:34And I'm talking about, of course,
08:36the first meeting of the new group being established by the EU
08:40to support Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority,
08:44and the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip.
08:47Tell us about this group, who is in it, and what's happening next.
08:53First of all, you know that we are trying to strengthen the Palestinian Authority,
08:57and this is our main goal.
08:59This is the reason why we invested from 2021 to 2024,
09:03for 1.3 billion euros.
09:06And now there is a new reform matrix program for this year, next year, in 27,
09:111.6 billion euros.
09:13Of course, this money will be dispersed upon conditions.
09:18Of course, conditions are reforms which they are obliged to do.
09:21What we are trying to do, there will be a Palestine donor group,
09:25and it will be established by the Commission,
09:28in co-ownership with the Palestine Authority.
09:32So I will be chairing this group together with Mustafa,
09:36prime minister of Palestine.
09:39So, Palestine donor group is a new platform
09:43where we will discuss their reforms,
09:46we will discuss what we can do to empower them,
09:50to encourage them to be stronger than they are at the moment.
09:55Of course, Hamas is out of question.
09:57We don't talk to these people,
09:58only to the people of the Palestine Authority.
10:01So there will be, at this moment, so far as I know,
10:04there will be 60 participants,
10:06all 27 member states, plus states, plus the region,
10:11and some other people who were invited
10:14from our partner countries and allies.
10:17So we will be trying to show that Palestine Authority
10:22can at one point, or could at one point,
10:26take over some of the services in the country,
10:29not only in West Bank, but also later in Gaza.
10:32Now, the Palestinian Authority is a kind of a controversial body,
10:36if I may say.
10:37The Gulf states, for example, that you mentioned,
10:40they don't trust it.
10:42How do you get along with these guys,
10:44and how do you pressure the Palestinian Authority
10:47to implement reform, good governance,
10:52transparency, fight against corruption, etc.?
10:54We need solutions.
10:57We have Hamas.
10:58We don't want to talk to Hamas.
10:59Then we need some regular authority,
11:03which is Palestine Authority for us.
11:05And, as I told, the money which we are investing there is conditioned.
11:12And it's all the money which we pay for Palestine Authority
11:15is done under Pegaz mechanism,
11:17which means that none or no cent is being disbursed without conditions.
11:24Reforms, and this is what we have been doing.
11:27So, who, if we don't have them?
11:30So, who will be in Palestine?
11:33We need someone, also Israel.
11:36They need someone to talk.
11:37So, who will sit at the table once the situation allows?
11:43Who will sit at the table?
11:44Palestine Authority plus Israel.
11:47But they need to be reformed.
11:50And this is our precondition.
11:53To say that the EU is divided over the Gaza situation
11:58is a kind of an understatement.
12:00So, there are some countries that have recognized a Palestinian state.
12:04Others haven't.
12:06Does that complicate your job in getting reconstruction going?
12:13Of course.
12:13It would be much easier if all of them recognize,
12:16but it won't change the situation.
12:19We have to reconstruct Gaza, but not only us.
12:23Europe cannot do it alone.
12:25This is why I said we need Gulf countries,
12:28but we also need American administration.
12:30And this is something which we have to be open and clear on it.
12:34So, now, as you know, we have this 20 points program,
12:38which means that we have to move forward.
12:41And this is the only way.
12:43Of course, we need Israel on board.
12:45We need them to release tax revenues for Palestine people,
12:49which is not the case.
12:51We need many different commitments, also from Israel.
12:55Of course, they are not in favor of two-state solution,
12:59but little by little they need to say what do they want in the end.
13:03That ceasefire agreement that was established under the auspices of the Trump administration
13:09stipulates a board of peace.
13:12Will the EU have a seat at that table?
13:16If we talk about fair play,
13:21then we should have a seat in this peace board for sure,
13:25because, as I said, we are the biggest, not only donors, but the biggest payers.
13:30And we are the ones who are involved.
13:33And they are our neighbors.
13:35We are the closest neighbors.
13:36So, I think that we should have a place in this board.
13:40Which basically means Trump hasn't said, sit over here.
13:44Let's see.
13:46Let's see.
13:46Let's see.
13:47This will happen.
13:48When talking about the reconstruction of Gaza,
13:50do you have an idea about the timeline,
13:52about the money that needs to be moved and invested, ballpark number?
13:58It was not by coincidence that Gulf countries are mentioned.
14:02So, we need Arab countries, Gulf countries to be on board.
14:06We need them to invest.
14:07And I'm sure that they will do it.
14:10Of course, we will also do our part.
14:14But Europe cannot do it alone, as I told you.
14:16And we are looking forward to this ceasefire to hold first.
14:22If this ceasefire holds, then we can talk about reconstruction.
14:26And I think that there will be a lot of money from different world money,
14:33financial institutions who will come on board.
14:37It's also about World Bank.
14:38It's about European Investment Bank.
14:40It's about EBRD.
14:41So, all institutions should be on board.
14:43Now, all of this can only work if Israel and Hamas respect the ceasefire agreement
14:51that we just talked about.
14:52And I think the most crucial point here is the disarmament of Hamas.
14:58Will Hamas render the weapons?
15:01Do you see this coming anytime soon?
15:04I cannot tell you whether this will happen or not.
15:08But I think that this should happen because without laying down the weapons from Hamas' side,
15:15I don't think that there will be a ceasefire.
15:18So, I'm sure that the world should pressure not only us for the European Union,
15:23but also Americans should pressure Hamas to do it.
15:27Commissioner, you're also in charge of demography.
15:30And I've looked at the description of your official mission.
15:36And it says there that you're responsible for, and I quote,
15:39steering the implementation of the demography toolbox to help member states address their demographic challenges.
15:47So, what is in your demographic toolbox?
15:51There is a lot.
15:53First, it's about women and families who should be in the labor market.
15:58When we talk about demography here in Europe, we talk from a competitive angle
16:02because we are not talking about birth race, mortality race.
16:06It's member state competence according to the treaty.
16:09But we have to, at this moment, there are 8 million European women who are not in the labor market
16:15because they have to take care about their kid or about their parent.
16:20So, we want to have all women in the labor market.
16:23Second, we want to have all youngsters to be in the labor market, not anymore those not in education,
16:30not in employment, so-called needs.
16:34But the problem is that they have diploma, but their diploma don't match to the needs of the labor market.
16:43We have new jobs, digital jobs, artificial intelligence and green jobs.
16:48So, they need to be adapted, and this is the reason why we re-skill and up-skill them.
16:54Then, there is a key problem, which is if we retire too early, if we retire too early, we create brain drain.
17:03So, this is also member state competence.
17:06You know what happened in France when they started changing this pension age,
17:10Gilets jaunes, from 62 to 64.
17:13But since we live longer, we live 10 years longer in last 50 years in Europe.
17:19We live 10 years longer, so we have to work longer.
17:21This is not very opportune for politicians to say, but this is something which we have to adapt
17:27our life expectancy to the working age.
17:33And this is all our laws, and our legislation is adapted only to 65, 70, but not to 80, 90, 100, which is now the case.
17:42And when we use all these three women, youngsters, and those who don't go early to retirement,
17:50we still need people in European labor market.
17:53And then, there is fourth pillar, which is legal migration.
17:57So, human capital is precious, and unfortunately, we miss this human capital.
18:03We have a projection.
18:04If each and every European woman in the next five years, who is in their productive age, would have five kids.
18:13I don't know whether it's biologically possible, but in five years, five kids.
18:17If this happens, these kids will be ready for labor market in 20 to 25 years.
18:23In the meantime, China, India, our allies in America, they are booming,
18:29and European competitiveness is being decreased.
18:33And this is the reason why we badly need people and human capital.
18:37On this population decline in the EU, what are the reasons, and are there regional disparities?
18:46There are regional disparities, but the reasons are sociological, philosophical.
18:51There is no black and white reply.
18:57There are disparities, but there is no silver bullet to change this.
19:04Right.
19:04So, there should be a set of measures in order to change this.
19:10But as I told you, it can't be changed in a year or two.
19:15It's a long-term, this is a long-term objective of the European Union.
19:20We have to work on it.
19:22And disparities, for example, if you look at the Baltic states in Finland,
19:27they have the lowest birth rate at the moment.
19:29Although they are very rich, they have all standards.
19:33So, it depends on women, depends on their...
19:37I cannot reply to this question, as I said, in a white and black manner.
19:45I totally understand that.
19:47All right.
19:47Dubravka Suitsa, EU commissioner for the Mediterranean.
19:51Thank you so much for a great Europe conversation.
19:54Thank you for having me.
19:55Dubravka Suitsa, EU commissioner for the Mediterranean.
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