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In this exclusive interview, Riva Ganguly Das, former Indian High Commissioner to Bangladesh, breaks down the controversial International Crimes Tribunal (ICT) verdict sentencing Sheikh Hasina to death for crimes against humanity. She discusses the politically motivated nature of the verdict, the rise of jihadist extremist influence in Bangladesh's interim government, and discusses if there are parallels with what happened around the tragic assassination of Hasina’s father, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

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Transcript
00:00So I have with me Riva Ganguly Das, former High Commissioner to Bangladesh, and she's here to
00:13speak about yesterday's ICT verdict on Sheikh Hasina, which actually gave death sentence
00:19for crimes against humanity. Thank you so much, Ambassador, for speaking with Aishanet News.
00:24You know, there is a consensus that the verdict by ICT was a politically motivated one rather
00:32than a legally sound one. How do you read this?
00:35Well, definitely, you know, given the speed at which the decision was arrived at, the fact
00:43that Sheikh Hasina did not get a lawyer of her choice, the verdict was declared in absentia.
00:52And the general political atmosphere in the country. So there is definitely, you know,
01:00reason to call it politically motivated. And we've seen the aftermath of the decision also,
01:11you know, what happened in Dhaka with violence and, you know, wanting to flatten out the Sheikh
01:19Mujib's house, 32 Dhan Mundi, the museum, in honor of the father of the nation. So clearly,
01:26there is a lot of politics also, which is going on.
01:28Ambassador, there is a definite, a wider consensus in India that there are anti-India elements in the
01:34political setup in Bangladesh. I'm talking about the interim government led by Yunus. But do you also
01:41see that the jihadist elements and the extremely radicalized elements are also included in the
01:46government and therefore this verdict? Because all of this was not only motivated by the anti-India
01:52sentiment and the politics of Bangladesh, but also the jihadist extremists that are present in the
01:57government. Oh, absolutely. Look, this whole ICT, the International Crimes Tribunal, was set up by
02:04Sheikh Hasina herself to try war criminals. And it is well recorded that, you know, the Jamaat-e-Islami,
02:11I mean, it is, it is a known fact that the Jamaat-e-Islami opposed the formation of Bangladesh.
02:16They were, they sided with the Pakistani establishment, especially the army, to identify,
02:23you know, the freedom fighters, people who were with the freedom movement and had them eliminated
02:31and, you know, so the role of the Jamaat-e-Islami, the Al-Badar and the Rajakar is well recorded.
02:40And this whole ICT was set up to bring that part of Bangladesh's history to, you know, some justice for
02:49people who had suffered during the 71 war. And now to change the rules, to make certain changes and then
02:57try Hasina under the same, you know, rubric was, there was an irony to that itself. And it is
03:08absolutely true that the Jamaat-e-Islami elements, the extremist elements are running the government.
03:14It is clear from the various decisions that the government takes and they have been, you know,
03:21under Sheikh Hasina's prime ministership. We know that even though Jamaat was not banned, it was,
03:27it was very difficult for them to carry on their activities. But, you know, they have clearly used
03:32the 15 years to strengthen themselves, to come back as a massive force. And today they are certainly a big
03:41force behind the UNUS led government. And, you know, that's why, you know, the most analysts are saying,
03:51this is a politically motivated decision as well.
03:55So, do you think that it is the extremists are trying to repeat what they did in 1975 with Sheikh Hasina's father?
04:02They can't do that. I don't think the situation is the same. That was, you know, that was a very new country.
04:10And it had not established any, you know, real rules. The country's identity was still
04:17being formed. Today it's a much stronger country. Bangladesh has seen several decades of extremely
04:27good economic growth. You know, not to forget about the empowerment of women. Women are empowered.
04:34Bangladesh is one of the highest participation of women in the workforce. And they have a strong
04:40Bangladeshi identity of their own, which is, you know, based on the spirit of the 1971 war. So,
04:49to do bring about that kind of mayhem today, I think is very difficult. I think there are enough
04:55all kinds of voices in Bangladesh. And the country really needs to move towards a democratic process now.
05:01Everybody seems to be also understanding that Hasina still has a lot of support
05:06of the youth of the country in Bangladesh. You know, Sheikh Hasina has a lot of support.
05:10Let's not forget that, you know, in all elections held in the past, BNP and
05:19Awami League have been neck to neck. Above 30% votes have gone to these parties. And in the past,
05:26there was, you know, alternate elections. They handed over power to each other.
05:31And Awami League certainly has a strong support. It's a grassroots party. It has absolutely,
05:39even at the village level, it has organizational, it is a strong organization. Today, of course,
05:44Awami leaguers are on the run. Many have left the country and those who are there, anyway,
05:50the government has banned their activities. So, they are in a very difficult position. But,
05:55you know, it's a massive grassroots level party with an enormous amount of support. So, I think
06:04you can't write them off, not yet, not in any time soon.
06:07Ambassador, if they are banned, how can then we say that the elections which are going to happen next
06:12year, they will be free and fair? Because we have two parties, Jamaat and BNP, who we have already
06:19seen in the past that they came together, then they, you know, divided, but again seems to be coming
06:25together, especially at the backdrop of this verdict. See, that's the biggest challenge that
06:31the Mahmoudini government faces now, which is to conduct a free, fair, inclusive election. Inclusive,
06:40inclusivity is already in doubt because, you know, Awami league, even though not banned, its activities
06:49are banned. Mahmoud Yunus has in a recent interview said, in a meeting, said that Awami league will not
06:57be allowed to participate in the elections. So, you know, that raises a lot of questions about the
07:03fairness of the election. And it also, you know, the whole issue on the basis of which Awami league's
07:12government was brought down was that every election was unfair, political parties could not participate
07:18in the election, it was dummy election. So, that's exactly what this government is trying to do,
07:23you know, create an atmosphere where all political parties cannot participate. Besides Awami league,
07:31there are the other allies of Awami league, like Jatio party, etc. So, the government plans,
07:38they've not articulated what they want to do with them, but we'll have to wait and see what's going
07:43to happen to the other political parties, which were in an alliance with Awami league. And then there
07:48is the issue of the students party, the NCP, the National Citizens party, which clearly the government
07:56takes a lot of decisions which are favourable to them. They are known as King's party and they enjoy,
08:06you know, a kind of support from the government, which is completely disproportionate to their
08:11strength and to their standing. They have not even been recognised till now. And yet, they are considered
08:16as one of the three largest parties in Bangladesh. So, a lot of work has to be done to make this election
08:23credible. But election has to be done for bringing about some degree of stability in that country.
08:31Now, yesterday, you know, UNICE administration actually gave out a statement and asking India to
08:36extradite Hasina to Bangladesh. Now, of course, India will ask for evidence and then will examine it.
08:43How long do you think this process will be?
08:47Look, I think this decision which came yesterday was a foregone conclusion. I don't think
08:53it came as a surprise to anybody and I don't think it came as a surprise to the government of India as
08:58well. And MEA has already issued a very measured sort of a statement. So, I think it really doesn't
09:09change anything on the ground as far as India is concerned. But it certainly changes a lot of things
09:15in the way in which the Western countries perceive this because most countries are not, you know,
09:25it will be, let's put it this way, that if Hasina now makes a case for moving to any other country
09:32because there is a death sentence against her, the Western countries will have to take a different
09:40position on this now because they have the very strong anti-death penalty, you know, laws and they
09:48stand against a death penalty. So, I think it's, you know, and given the statement that Amnesty has
09:58already made and other human rights organizations are making, it will make her position a little
10:03different globally. How do you see the current ties between India and Bangladesh especially after the
10:09ouster of Hasina? We have seen a lot of videos and a lot of images circulating on social media how the
10:16minority was under attack and continues to be under attack in Bangladesh. So, India definitely needs to
10:22also take up this case with Bangladesh. Of course, I think, you know, its minorities have been attacked and
10:30generally speaking Bangladesh seems to be slipping under the control of mobs and, you know, there is
10:38hardly any, the law and order situation is very bad and all of this should worry India a lot. Our relations
10:46have deteriorated over since August 5. There is no doubt about that but India maintains technical level
10:55relations with Bangladesh. You know that the National Security Advisor of Bangladesh, Mr. Khalilud Rahman,
11:01is likely to visit India for the meeting of National Security NSA's of a few countries which is an
11:13institutionalized mechanism. So, I think both countries do realize that there is, you know, you can't
11:22change your neighbors so you have to work with your neighbors and this is far too important a relationship
11:28so time will tell how this will work out but definitely there is a need to, you know, bring some
11:35semblance of normalcy in the relationship.
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