- 2 days ago
For years, the small town of Olney has struggled to understand how and why teenager Julius Mullins could murder his ex-girlfriend's mother. David Scott confronts Mullins like never before.
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00:00I looked at my hands and saw all the blood that was everywhere and blood everywhere yeah could
00:13smell it yeah yeah you could smell it see it on the carpet a grisly murder tears through the heart
00:21of a small town as a high school football star makes a deadly decision 38 stab wounds strangulation
00:29and the gunshot in that moment did you realize what you'd become I knew that more likely I was
00:38either gonna die or that I was going to prison today Julius Mullins is confronted like never
00:44before about the brutal murder of his ex-girlfriend's mother Manuela Allen police told you there was
00:51evidence of quote excessive rage at the crime scene they asked you if you were thinking of
00:57someone else at the time were you thinking of Melanie enraged by the police that she was off
01:04having sex with other boys no you're sure about that was it really a robbery turned bad as he
01:11has long claimed or was there something much darker at play hidden behind this young killer's vacant eyes
01:18it sounds like an evil game of chess that you're playing with these people's lives yeah sadly I
01:26guess you could say that was this straight-up revenge to punish Melanie for breaking your heart do you think
01:33you might have murdered Manuela to even the score for heartache that you suffered
02:03he's,
02:11I
02:11kill you
02:12you
02:12you
02:14you
02:14you
02:20you
02:21you
02:259-1-1, where's your emergency?
02:43Uh, I don't know how to describe it.
02:46My wife is missing, and there's blood all over her bedroom.
02:51On July 7, 2019, police were called to the home of Peter Allen.
02:58His wife, Manuela, a beloved teacher at the local high school, was missing.
03:02The killer left behind signs of a bloody struggle
03:05and a trail of misdirection casting blame on the victim's own family.
03:10I know I'm the prime suspect. I know this.
03:14But what I want is I want you guys out there finding the a** if you actually didn't.
03:18As usual, suspicion first fell on the husband, Peter Allen,
03:25who said he'd fallen asleep on the sofa after drinking on the night of the murder.
03:30But the grim discovery of Manuela's body and evidence at a nearby lake unlocked the truth.
03:36We have some breaking news to share with you this afternoon.
03:3818-year-old Julius Mullins is charged in connection with the murder of the mother of four.
03:43The beloved teacher was murdered by a student she mentored and knew well, Julius Mullins.
03:50He was also the ex-boyfriend of the victim's daughter, Melanie.
03:54You love Melanie, didn't you?
03:56No, please.
03:59And that's not a reason to do this to her mother.
04:04Mullins pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 55 years in prison and will be up for parole in 2047.
04:11He claims he panicked and killed Manuela Allen when she caught him trying to rob the family's valuable gun collection.
04:18But because there wasn't a trial, questions remain about that fateful night and Mullins' true motives.
04:25Was it actually a burglary gone wrong or were there even darker forces at play?
04:31I headed to a prison two hours outside Dallas to find out.
04:41Okay, all right.
04:43I want to ask you today to help us understand the boy you were at 18.
04:50That 18-year-old boy who went off the rails.
04:53That's why we're here, Julius.
04:55Tell me, why did you want to talk to us today?
04:58I figured once your organization reached out that y'all have questions because everybody who has watched the other interviews that I've done,
05:09they said that it left them with nothing but more questions.
05:13Mullins has spoken to media organizations in the past, but it yielded only superficial answers.
05:19Why did you blame Peter?
05:21I have no comment.
05:22I wanted to probe beyond what was on the record and behind those vacant eyes.
05:30Before we get into the case, I want to go back.
05:33You come from what looks like a loving two-parent family.
05:38Yeah, it was.
05:39I watched a video of you at 14 at a birthday party.
05:44Happy birthday to you.
05:48You seem surrounded by love.
05:51You're smiling.
05:53Is that an accurate picture of your life at that point?
05:57Yeah, certain times.
05:58There was certain days that were ups and downs, kind of like any other family.
06:03You struggled in school.
06:05You were left back at one point.
06:06Nothing especially unusual about that.
06:09You excelled on the football field.
06:11Yeah.
06:12Right?
06:12That was something I really loved doing was sports, not just football.
06:16But Mullins says he gave up on football in school and gave in to juvenile delinquency.
06:23It seems that you strayed from that path.
06:25Why do you think that was?
06:27I started to get introduced to those things like drugs, running the street, stuff like that.
06:33And when I got more involved with those people, the things that I was doing, the things that I was doing right, it just didn't seem more appealing to me.
06:43In his sophomore year of high school, Mullins found love with a teenage girl who was everything he was not.
06:50Melanie Allen.
06:534.0 grade average, robotics, sports.
06:57I mean, she was really the whole package.
07:00And am I right that she was the class valedictorian in her year?
07:04Yeah.
07:05Yeah, she was.
07:06So was this kind of like opposites attract?
07:10Yeah.
07:11I'd say that in the beginning it was kind of young love.
07:17When she agreed to be your girlfriend, how did that make you feel?
07:23I was elated.
07:25I was elated.
07:26I felt like I think any man would, like the highest guy in the world.
07:30Like there was nothing that you couldn't do.
07:33You know what I mean?
07:34She brought you home, right, to her family to meet them.
07:38And it sounds like the Allens embraced or at least tolerated you, right?
07:43Yeah.
07:44Yeah, you could say that.
07:46For the first time, Mullins breaks from his baseline flat affect and surprises me with an awkward grin.
07:52But I can't quite tell what's behind it.
07:56Her mother embraced me.
07:57Her father was a little bit tougher as all fathers are.
08:02Melanie's mother, Manuela, was a beloved teacher at Olney High School where both Julius and Melanie were students.
08:09Everybody says she was a saint.
08:11She was the type that when she would walk in, like you could, you would just feel happiness, you know?
08:17You wouldn't feel like, oh, this is another day, you know?
08:21Like even when she's just walking through the halls, she just had a smile on her face and would always give an encouraging word to whoever was around her.
08:29And when you started dating her daughter, did she sort of try and help you?
08:37You went to her, you know, as a confidant for advice sometimes?
08:42Yeah.
08:43She would give me advice on certain things.
08:46And what about Melanie's father, Peter?
08:48What was the vibe with him?
08:50It wasn't bad.
08:51It was just to show that just don't, don't break my daughter's heart, basically.
08:56But Mullins was the one left heartbroken.
09:00At a certain point, she's ready to move on.
09:03Right?
09:04Is that fair?
09:05There was a kind of falling out between the both of us over a party that she went to.
09:09And that's kind of how we split our separate ways.
09:11Right.
09:12Now, breakups are always hard.
09:15But this one must have been pretty crushing for you.
09:18Yeah, it was a low point.
09:21In hindsight, can you see how much of your identity was at stake in that relationship?
09:28I definitely would.
09:29You kind of get a sense of lostness and you kind of don't know what else to do.
09:32You later told police that you were, quote, a d*** to her in the aftermath of the breakup.
09:38Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
09:41What were you feeling?
09:42Frustration, hurt, anger, confusion, because why she couldn't tell me herself and I had to find out from her friends.
09:51Stuff like that.
09:52Rage?
09:53There was a lot of anger, frustration going through my head, and I was really willing to hurt whoever did it.
09:58Five months before the murder, you sent Manuel Allen a Facebook message saying,
10:04saying, she broke my heart and I just can't take it.
10:08Is that how you felt?
10:09Like you just couldn't bear it?
10:11Yeah, for a little while.
10:13No, at that time when I had turned to drugs, alcohol, anything to numb the pain.
10:19Mullins was spiraling and taking it out on Melanie and her family.
10:24You say you still loved her after the breakup.
10:27Did you really?
10:28I do, yeah.
10:30For months, Mullins tracked Melanie's social life online and tried to enlist her friends and family to somehow win her back,
10:39all the while seething about the breakup.
10:42By the summer, she started dating other people.
10:44By the way, so were you.
10:46Yeah.
10:47Right?
10:47But I'm sure it was a bitter pill to swallow.
10:51Yeah?
10:52Is that fair?
10:52I'd say yes, but, I mean, it didn't really surprise me.
10:57I wasn't really, like, hurt by it because I kind of figured that that's really where her mind was in the first place.
11:03Here, Mullins begins to downplay the impact of losing Melanie and his fixation on her,
11:09maybe to deflect me away from malicious motives.
11:12So I dig in.
11:14It does seem like you have ill will towards her.
11:17I mean, from some of your messages to friends, you called her terrible things.
11:24It might be, it might have to freshen my memory on it.
11:28She's a bitch.
11:29She's a sadistic bitch.
11:31I realize what a hoe she is.
11:33I'll slash her tires.
11:35She just needs to hop off my ****.
11:38Talking about her gets me **** heated.
11:41There's a possibility I could have said something like that because that's where my head was at the time.
11:45How would you describe that anger?
11:47Well, not going away anytime soon, like at that moment.
11:53Building?
11:54I wouldn't say it was building.
11:55It was just, it was there.
11:57It just, it wasn't, there was nowhere it was going to go.
12:00I'm now making my way to the heart of the crime.
12:04Mullins wants the murder to seem almost like an accident, a burglary gone wrong.
12:08But he can't make that case if he admits to obsessive rage.
12:13There's a reference in the record to Peter getting upset with your behavior in the aftermath of the breakup.
12:21So much so that he even changed the locks on the house.
12:25What was going on that would cause him so much concern?
12:29That, I'm not really sure because I didn't, like I didn't tell her parents, her parents, that we had broken up.
12:37I just stopped coming and I didn't come over anymore.
12:40You seem to be spiraling.
12:42Do you think that was the source of their concern?
12:47It turns out that Melanie's dad was right.
12:50Julius Mullins was a serious threat, not only to Melanie, but to the entire Allen family.
12:56All this leads up to July 7th, 2019, right?
13:02Julius, in as much detail as you can recall, tell me what happened that night.
13:17It's the summer of 2019 in Olney, Texas.
13:21And teenager Julius Mullins is mentally spiraling down after a breakup with his girlfriend, Melanie Allen.
13:29Things aren't going well for young Julius.
13:31You've been kicked out of your house.
13:34Your aunt asks you to leave for breaking curfew three times in a row.
13:39Now homeless, Mullins splits his time between a former classmate's apartment, the high school gym, and committing serious crimes.
13:49Around that time, the end of June, you commit a robbery of a building owned by the father of one of the kids that you said hooked up with Melanie.
14:01Was that a bit of revenge?
14:05Honestly, no.
14:06At the time, I had nowhere to go.
14:08So my goal at the moment was to try to see if I could come up on some type of money so I could get my own place to stay.
14:17Just so I could get food, have a bed to sleep in, you know, stuff like that.
14:23And the reason why I did that was because I knew that they had weapons.
14:27After getting a taste for felony theft, Mullins sets his sights on the home of his ex-girlfriend, Melanie Allen, targeting her dad, Peter's extensive gun collection.
14:40All this leads up to July 7th, 2019.
14:44Had you at that point already decided to break into the Allen's home?
14:49Not at the moment.
14:51I mean, it was on my do list because I knew that they had weapons too.
14:55It was on your to-do list?
14:56Yeah, it was on my to-do list, but it was...
14:59You have a to-do list of crimes?
15:04Julia said, tell me what happened that night.
15:072 a.m., you ride your bike to the Allen's home, right?
15:13Okay, so I took my bike around towards the garage window, and I walked in through the garage, through the bedroom.
15:23The Allen's had recently returned from a three-week trip to Europe, but were back home when Mullins entered.
15:30There were at least four people in the home and cars outside, so you knew they were at the home, right?
15:38Yeah, yeah.
15:39That didn't dissuade you?
15:41No, because they weren't really my focus.
15:44What do you mean?
15:45Like, I wasn't there for them.
15:47I was just there for the weapons.
15:48Right, but if you're breaking into a home, right?
15:51To rob them, according to you, right, wouldn't it matter whether people were home or not?
15:59It would, yeah.
16:00When I went in, the first thing I did was I checked all the rooms and see who all was there.
16:06Here, Mullins again reveals a calculating and criminal mind, recounting how he prowled inside the Allen's home before striking.
16:14You walked through the house and checked all the rooms?
16:17Yeah, I checked all the rooms.
16:18Y'all was there.
16:19That's how I knew her.
16:19The brother was upstairs.
16:21Wow.
16:22Were you not worried about alerting someone while you were canvassing the house?
16:28Honestly, not really.
16:30I just, I've always been a sneaky individual.
16:36Melanie's brother was upstairs playing video games.
16:38Her father was asleep on the living room couch, and her mother, Mullins' mentor, Manuela, was sleeping in the master bedroom.
16:47You're armed?
16:49Uh, no.
16:52I wasn't until later on that I was armed.
16:54Really?
16:55You're going to break into a home that you know the homeowner is a gun owner, and you're not armed?
17:03So you canvass the house, and then you go back to the bedroom?
17:07Yeah.
17:08Why?
17:08Because now, I know that's where they have, they have a safe, but I needed a key to get into it.
17:14So I figured their keys would be in the bedroom.
17:17So that's why I went back to the bedroom, and I started looking around.
17:20But I had opened up the, uh, the nightstand, and that's where I found the 9mm.
17:26And at that point, that's when I became armed.
17:28Looked around in the closet.
17:33Didn't really find anything.
17:34No keys?
17:35No.
17:36You startled her.
17:37She wakes up.
17:39I accidentally bumped something, and then that's when she woke up.
17:42That's when I saw that there was a butterfly knife on the dresser.
17:46I kind of panicked.
17:48I kind of just went into kind of a dark spot, grabbed the knife.
17:53What do you mean by dark spot?
17:55Like, didn't really.
17:59It's kind of, I guess, fear.
18:00So this is kind of a moment of truth, right?
18:03She wakes up, and now you have to decide, decide what you're going to do.
18:08Yeah, didn't, there wasn't really any time for thinking.
18:11I do remember that I grabbed the knife, and then I, when she got up, I jumped on top of her, and I started stabbing her.
18:18I do remember that.
18:19She's struggling?
18:20Yeah, a little bit, pushing.
18:24Eventually, at one point, we were both standing, and I brought her to the ground.
18:29After that, that's when I started kind of coming to realizing what I had just done.
18:34Were you just in the red zone at that point?
18:39Kind of.
18:41I was just acting at that moment.
18:43It was on impulse.
18:44I wasn't, there was no thought going into it.
18:46I just kind of did it, and then afterward, looked at my hands and saw all the blood that was everywhere.
18:56Blood everywhere?
18:57Yeah.
18:58You could smell it?
18:59Yeah.
19:00Yeah, you could smell it.
19:02See it on the carpet.
19:03You said you looked at your hands.
19:06In that moment, did you realize what you'd become?
19:11Yeah, at that moment, I knew that more than likely I was either going to die or that I was going to prison.
19:1738 stab wounds, mostly to the head.
19:21Right.
19:23He said in the police record, she was just panicked at that point.
19:29Yeah, she, it really sounded like she was fighting for breath.
19:33I was kind of in my own head, if I'm being real with you.
19:36What do you mean by that, Julie?
19:37Now I'm sitting here starting to think, so all the things that I had literally just done, now I'm processing through what I had just done.
19:44And what did you feel, if anything?
19:47I just, the things I was thinking of was, how do I not let her family see what I had just done.
19:54Covering it up?
19:55Yeah, basically, yeah.
19:57And what's the plan now?
19:58You stripped the bedding.
19:59Yeah, basically, I took all that off, wrapped her inside of it to make it a little bit easier so I could drag her and get rid of her so that when they woke up, they wouldn't have to see that.
20:13Get rid of her.
20:15Through the garage?
20:16Yeah, yeah, I took her through the garage.
20:19By yourself?
20:20Yeah, by myself.
20:21I dragged her out towards the back.
20:23At this time, that's when I got the car, put it in neutral, pushed it around back by myself, had it in the alleyway waiting.
20:32And then I took her the rest of the way, brought my bike back there, too, put it in the trunk.
20:38You put her in the trunk?
20:40No, I put my bike in the trunk.
20:41Okay.
20:42And then I brought her through the grass in the backyard and then lifted her and put her in the driver's side passenger seat.
20:51Was that difficult?
20:52It was.
20:53She was kind of heavy.
20:55But I did a lot of power lifting at school.
20:58Were you not afraid that somebody in the house would hear the commotion?
21:05I knew that nobody had stirred, really.
21:07No, nothing.
21:08Nobody knew anything.
21:09Okay.
21:10So now Manuel is in the car, bike's in the car.
21:16You got the car keys.
21:18What's the plan now?
21:20Now my main plan is to just take him to the lake.
21:25Mullins drove out to a nearby lake and dumped her body in the brush.
21:30By then, it was almost six in the morning.
21:33You get on your bike and you flee the scene.
21:36Yeah.
21:37Where'd you go?
21:39After that, I went straight to the high school.
21:43The coach was letting me stay for a little while in the gym.
21:48So I went in there and they had a shower and stuff in there and trash can, stuff like that.
21:54Got rid of my clothes.
21:55Uh-uh.
21:57Cleaned myself up.
21:59Did it occur to you, Julius, in the course of this?
22:03Oh, my God.
22:04I was a troubled teen and now I'm a teenage murderer.
22:12Yeah, it did.
22:13Once I started coming to after she was on the ground in the house, I, uh, like I said, I started processing all these things and I was, I didn't know what to do, what was going to happen next.
22:26And I started just, I guess, accepting my fate, accepting that I'm more than likely going to die in here.
22:34Still, Mullins' fate wasn't sealed.
22:38In fact, for several days after the murder, he avoided suspicion and even helped cast blame on the victim's own husband and son.
22:46The whole town is now in shock and fear.
22:50Right.
22:50And rumors abound about Peter and Darian being responsible.
22:56You helped spread those rumors, right?
22:59Honestly, uh, I did tell the police, yeah.
23:04Well, one day after the murder, you messaged your mom on Facebook and told her you heard her son Darian killed her.
23:13You remember that?
23:14Yeah.
23:14So now you're deflecting, displacing the blame onto innocent people.
23:23Was that okay in your head at the time?
23:26Uh, no.
23:29I mean, I knew it was wrong, but yeah, I still did it.
23:32Soon, you reach out to Melanie and you offer her support, a shoulder to cry on.
23:41Is it possible that you calculated this whole thing, that if she suffered a catastrophe, like losing her mother, it could provide an opportunity to get Mel back in your life?
23:53Did you murder her mother to try and drive her back into your arms?
24:03All right, no, partner, I'm done.
24:05Don't you have the blood on your hands?
24:07I felt guilty for that.
24:09You felt guilty because, frankly, you were guilty.
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24:40After brutally murdering Manuela Allen in the middle of the night,
24:4318-year-old Julius Mullins blamed members of the victim's family for the vicious crime
24:48and then settled back into normal teenage life.
24:52Four days after the murder, you're posting on Snapchat, right?
24:57And you're mugging for the camera like you have not a care in the world.
25:01How do you account for that?
25:02I was dealing drugs and anything to numb the pain most of the times.
25:08Like, even in a lot of those videos, I was more than likely high.
25:12Meanwhile, one by one, the Allens are brought in and interrogated by police.
25:18You may think that we're looking at you on this deal,
25:24but a lot of the stuff, we get more information
25:26is so we can put the whole picture together.
25:31All the traumatized Allens come under suspicion
25:35because they're in the house.
25:38And how could this happen
25:40by an intruder
25:42without anybody hearing it?
25:47I know the truth.
25:48And the truth is, I didn't do it.
25:50Well, but you don't know the truth
25:52because you said you weren't awake when it happened.
25:55I did not want to lose my life.
25:57She was my soulmate.
25:59And still is.
26:00Well, it's chilling stuff.
26:04You know, they are clearly in fresh shock and grief.
26:09Did you figure that Peter would be in the cop's crosshairs?
26:14I did, yeah.
26:17Meanwhile, Mullins used the guise of consolation
26:20to shrewdly reconnect with his ex-girlfriend Melanie,
26:23the victim's daughter.
26:24Soon, you reach out to Melanie
26:28and you offer her support.
26:32Shoulder to cry on.
26:34What state did you find her in?
26:37Well, when we agreed to meet,
26:40she, I could tell she didn't trust me.
26:42She had went to a public place
26:44and we were in the car together
26:47and she had a knife beside her.
26:49Melanie wasn't fooled.
26:51Within the first 48 hours of the murder,
26:53she armed herself with a weapon
26:55and went to meet Mullins.
26:57She was already suspicious of you.
26:59Yeah.
27:00I remember asking her what the knife was for.
27:03And she said,
27:04well, I think it's a good idea
27:05to carry it on me at all times.
27:07At one point, Melanie directly asked you
27:10if you killed her mother.
27:12I told her no.
27:15She texted me
27:16and was like,
27:18was it you?
27:19I told her,
27:20Melanie, I still love you.
27:22I would never do something like that to you.
27:25Why did Melanie suspect
27:27that you were responsible
27:29for murdering her mother?
27:31I'd say because at that time,
27:35I was getting myself involved
27:37with people who weren't really focused on
27:40caring about another person.
27:44Could it have something to do
27:46with the several months' worth of messages
27:49that you were saying to her,
27:51to her friends,
27:52to her mother?
27:53Profane threats?
27:57I guess so, yeah.
27:59I mean, her father was concerned enough
28:00to change the locks.
28:02It sounds like the Allens were afraid of you.
28:05Was Melanie afraid of you?
28:07Not that I know of, no.
28:10At least before.
28:11So now you've secretly
28:13taken her mother's life
28:15and you heroically step in
28:18to console her.
28:20I still did care about her,
28:21like I said,
28:22but I still honestly did want
28:27to bring her some kind of consolation,
28:29if that makes sense.
28:30It doesn't make sense
28:32because you're the one
28:33that inflicted the harm.
28:36Yeah, I know.
28:37So you can't be the person
28:38to console her.
28:39I understand that now.
28:41Is it possible
28:41that you calculated
28:42this whole thing,
28:43that if she suffered
28:44a catastrophe,
28:46like losing her mother,
28:48it could provide an opportunity
28:50to get Mel back in your life?
28:53No.
28:54I didn't plan on doing none of that.
28:56I didn't try to do that
28:59just so I can gain her attention
29:00or anything.
29:02Well, that's kind of what happened.
29:03It is.
29:04It is what happened.
29:05Yeah.
29:06Listen to this exchange
29:07with the Texas Ranger.
29:10She was sending me nasty texts
29:13and this and that,
29:15but then turned around
29:15and they were just hanging out.
29:17So she had to ask
29:18to talk to me about her mom.
29:20Yeah.
29:21So I can get close to her.
29:23Yeah.
29:25I mean, I've gotten closer
29:26to her since then, right?
29:27At first it was ugly stuff
29:29and then now it's...
29:30We're doing good.
29:32We're doing good.
29:34We're doing good.
29:37Did you murder her mother
29:38to try and drive her
29:40back into your arms?
29:42No.
29:43You were actually gratified
29:46that the murder brought her
29:48back into your life though, right?
29:51Yes, I was glad.
29:54And I guess you could say
29:54that she was talking to me.
29:57Soon after meeting Mullins,
29:59Melanie tipped off police
30:01about her troubled ex.
30:03When police focused on him,
30:04a truer picture of the crime
30:06came into view.
30:07Video surveillance showed him
30:09riding his bike away from the lake
30:11where her body was found.
30:12A footprint next to the body
30:14matched Mullins' sock
30:15and his DNA was found
30:18inside the Allens' home.
30:20We know you buy
30:21some Mullins out there.
30:23After four hours
30:24of intense police questioning,
30:26Mullins cracked.
30:28We killed this
30:29f***ing Jason Mullins.
30:33Then, adding insult to injury
30:35for the Allen family,
30:36Mullins told police
30:37the victim's husband, Peter,
30:39was the mastermind
30:40behind the murder.
30:41Even your confession
30:54is accompanied by
30:57the vicious lie
30:57that Peter Allen
30:59put you up to it.
31:01Even when you're telling
31:02the truth, you're lying.
31:03You've murdered
31:04one of Melanie's parents
31:06and now you're
31:08trying to get the other one
31:11right
31:12to take the fall
31:15for that murder.
31:18Yeah, I didn't really
31:19at that moment
31:20realize that.
31:21That wasn't really
31:21crossing my mind.
31:22But is that evil,
31:25Julius,
31:25in your mind now?
31:27Yeah, I'd say
31:28that is sadistic.
31:31Despite all the evidence
31:32of rage,
31:33Mullins is sticking
31:34to his story
31:35that his only motive
31:36was theft.
31:38It sounds to me
31:39like Mullins is trying
31:40to soften the severity
31:41of his actions
31:42by claiming the murder
31:43was unplanned
31:44and unintended.
31:46But I don't buy it.
31:48Now, you claimed
31:49this was a robbery
31:51gone wrong,
31:52right?
31:53But that doesn't
31:54make sense to me.
31:56You knew Peter Allen
31:57had a huge gun collection,
31:59right?
31:59You also knew
32:00that he kept his guns
32:01in safes,
32:02in four safes,
32:04right?
32:05And you really had
32:06no way to get
32:08inside those safes.
32:09Why would anyone
32:10break into a house
32:11unarmed
32:12that is owned
32:16by a man
32:18with many,
32:20many guns,
32:21right,
32:22when he and his family
32:24are there?
32:25Also, Mel and her family
32:27had just been away
32:28in Germany
32:28for three weeks.
32:29If it was a robbery,
32:30wouldn't you do it
32:31when they were away?
32:33I mean, honestly,
32:35I didn't really
32:36ask those questions.
32:38You could have
32:38backed out
32:39of this whole caper
32:40when Manuela
32:42woke up,
32:43right?
32:44He would have had
32:45a lot of explaining
32:46to do,
32:47but it would have
32:48been better
32:48for all concerned
32:50than committing
32:52a murder
32:52to cover up
32:54a lesser crime.
32:56There has to be
32:57something else
32:57at play here,
32:59Julius.
33:01Do you accept that?
33:03I'd say no.
33:04I'd say it was just
33:05something that was
33:06upon impulse.
33:07Like I said,
33:08I thought that
33:09it would be
33:10a good idea
33:11to go and just
33:13get the weapons
33:14so I could sell
33:15them and make money.
33:17Mullins insists
33:17he was only looking
33:18for a quick payday,
33:20but this murder
33:21looks more like
33:22payback.
33:23It sounds more like
33:24an evil game
33:25with chess
33:25that you're playing
33:27with these people's lives.
33:29Yeah, sadly,
33:30I guess you could say that.
33:31Was this straight-up revenge?
33:44The vicious murder
33:45of Manuela Allen
33:46didn't seem like
33:47a burglary gone wrong
33:48as this killer
33:49is claiming.
33:50It looked to me
33:51much more like
33:52a crime of wrath.
33:53The violence
33:55of the attack
33:56indicates that
33:57it was deeply personal.
34:0038 stab wounds,
34:02strangulation,
34:03and a gunshot.
34:05Was this a crime
34:06of passion
34:07to punish
34:08these people
34:09and make them suffer?
34:10No.
34:12Do you think
34:12you might have
34:13murdered Manuela
34:14to even the score
34:16for the heartache
34:18that you suffered?
34:20You might say no.
34:22Really?
34:23Because that's
34:24what it sounds like
34:25when you read
34:26the record
34:26in its entirety.
34:28That wasn't, uh,
34:31that wasn't my thoughts.
34:33To me,
34:34Mullen seems
34:34emotionally flat-lined,
34:36a stone-faced wall
34:37of denial
34:38about his motives.
34:41But former
34:42Army interrogator
34:44Greg Hartley,
34:45an expert
34:45in nonverbal cues,
34:47co-host of the
34:48popular web series
34:49The Behavior Panel,
34:51sees a nervous man
34:52who's hiding something.
34:57What I'm trying to do
34:58is to figure out
34:59whether their mouth
35:00is saying
35:00what their mind
35:01is thinking.
35:02He screams emotion.
35:04You just gotta
35:04be able to see it.
35:08Look at the finger.
35:09Here's a beautiful example.
35:11This guy is so braced.
35:12If he comes in,
35:13he's prepared.
35:14He's locked down.
35:15He has his feet
35:16braced under the chair.
35:17I guarantee you
35:17he is feeling emotion
35:18about the interview
35:19and he's trying to contain
35:20so he doesn't explode.
35:22But when he's pressed
35:23pretty hard,
35:24you see those two fingers
35:25move up against the phone.
35:26How are you?
35:27These are adapters.
35:28Adapters are ways
35:29we release nervous energy.
35:31Hartley flags
35:32two momentary breaks
35:33from Mullen's
35:34flat baseline
35:34that reveal
35:35a surprising emotion
35:37for a killer
35:37who says he's coming clean.
35:40Joy.
35:42She brought you home,
35:43right,
35:44to her family
35:44to meet them
35:45and it sounds like
35:46the Allens
35:47embraced
35:48or at least
35:49tolerated you,
35:50right?
35:51Yeah.
35:51Yeah, you could say that.
35:53Which one
35:53is more accurate?
35:55Her mother embraced me.
35:56Her father
35:57was a little bit tougher
36:00as all fathers are.
36:02If you want to know
36:04who this guy really is,
36:05the only time
36:05he is amused,
36:06the only time he's happy
36:07is around these
36:08bad boy comments.
36:09Look at it.
36:10Yeah.
36:11Yeah, you could say that.
36:12When I remind Mullen's
36:14how he used to trash
36:15his ex-girlfriend Melanie,
36:17Hartley says pleasure
36:18leaks out of his
36:19stony mug again.
36:21She's a bitch.
36:22She's a sadistic bitch.
36:26That's contained pleasure,
36:28is all it is.
36:29For Hartley,
36:30our interview reveals
36:32that Mullen's
36:32is feeling something,
36:34but it's not sympathy
36:35for his victims.
36:37Shame is always present.
36:40That is always present.
36:41I think about that a lot.
36:45Disappointment.
36:47He's showing emotion,
36:49but I don't think
36:49it's sorrow.
36:51Sorrow has a very
36:52distinct look.
36:53The center of your
36:55brow tips rise,
36:56and you show sorrow.
36:58There's no sorrow
36:58in his face.
36:59He doesn't feel it.
37:00He doesn't even try
37:01to pretend to feel
37:02their pain.
37:03I don't think he feels
37:04any remorse.
37:04I think he was angry
37:05about his relationship
37:06with the young woman.
37:07And in our interview,
37:10Mullen's is about
37:11to prove Hartley's point.
37:13Julius, tell me the truth.
37:14Did you love Melanie,
37:16or did you hate her?
37:16Sunday nights on Court TV.
37:27Join us for a night
37:28of food, friends,
37:29and our favorite
37:30legal dramas.
37:31It's Order in the Court,
37:32and this week,
37:33we're binge-watching
37:34Bull Sundays
37:36on Court TV.
37:37All right,
37:38no party, I'm done.
37:39Don't you have
37:40the blood on your hands?
37:41I feel guilty for that.
37:43You felt guilty
37:43because, frankly,
37:44you were guilty.
37:46Interview with a killer.
37:48New episode next Saturday
37:49at 8 Eastern and Pacific.
37:51Only on Court TV.
37:57In 2019,
37:59Julius Mullins
38:00was a broken-hearted teenager
38:01when he stabbed,
38:03strangled,
38:03and shot his ex-girlfriend's
38:05mother dead.
38:06He claims his only motive
38:08was robbery,
38:09but the crime looks
38:10a lot more like
38:11one of rage,
38:12and I'm calling him
38:13out on it.
38:15Was this straight-up revenge?
38:18To punish Melanie
38:19and Peter Allen,
38:20maybe,
38:21for breaking your heart
38:22by violently taking away
38:24the person closest to them?
38:26No.
38:27I felt like
38:28that the only revenge
38:29that I would be given
38:31was to break into
38:32their house
38:33and steal their weapons,
38:34and sleeping with
38:35their best friend
38:36like I did.
38:36You're saying that
38:37you slept with
38:38their best friend
38:39to get back at her.
38:41You robbed her house
38:42to get back at her.
38:43So doesn't that mean
38:45that revenge
38:46was the driving force
38:48behind your actions?
38:50Yes, I do admit that.
38:52But it wasn't planned
38:54to kill her mother.
38:55At that point,
38:57Julius, tell me the truth.
38:58Did you love Melanie
38:59or did you hate her?
39:01I did love her,
39:02still.
39:03But once she was
39:04with those guys,
39:06it wasn't the same,
39:07you know?
39:07But your actions
39:08suggest hate.
39:10You've condemned her
39:12to a life
39:14of torment.
39:18She brought you
39:18into that family.
39:20Can you imagine
39:21what it's like for her
39:22every day
39:24to blame herself
39:26for bringing
39:28into the family
39:29the man that would
39:31viciously murder
39:33her mother?
39:33and I can't.
39:37I'm struck
39:38by your
39:39your flat affect.
39:41Almost like
39:42you're looking
39:42through me.
39:43Almost like
39:44a nine-mile stare.
39:46That's what
39:46the viewers
39:47are going to see.
39:49And of course,
39:50they're going to feel
39:51what I'm feeling,
39:52which is
39:52this is a man
39:54who's not feeling
39:56the depth
39:57of the
39:58harm he's done.
39:59I can understand
40:02that.
40:03I don't understand
40:04how you can
40:05sit here for
40:07an hour,
40:11an hour and a half
40:12so coldly,
40:14Julius.
40:15How can we
40:16understand that?
40:18To let emotion
40:20go
40:20is to be
40:21uncontrolled.
40:22At least I'm
40:23not going to do.
40:25Now I understand
40:26that
40:26the things that
40:27I have done
40:28in my past
40:29were
40:29screwed up,
40:31messed up,
40:32very dark
40:33and sadistic,
40:33but I've worked
40:35through those things
40:35and they don't.
40:38It bothers me,
40:39yes.
40:39Bothers you?
40:41It's something
40:42that I have
40:42to live with.
40:44To live with
40:44his crimes,
40:45Mullins has turned
40:46to God
40:46and says he's
40:47now a practicing
40:48Christian.
40:50Are you familiar
40:51with the sin
40:52of wrath?
40:55Defined as
40:56an intense
40:57and uncontrolled
40:58anger often
41:00accompanied by
41:01a desire for
41:02vengeance.
41:04Distinguished from
41:05ordinary anger
41:06by its lack
41:08of reason and
41:09balance,
41:11wrath can manifest
41:12as hatred,
41:13resentment,
41:14and a desire
41:15to inflict harm,
41:17violence,
41:18even blood
41:19thirstiness.
41:21Wasn't this a
41:22crime of wrath,
41:23Julius?
41:26I would say
41:27yeah.
41:28And your wrath
41:29sentenced Melanie
41:31to a living hell.
41:33Do you agree
41:33with that?
41:35I agree.
41:36You told our
41:37booking producer
41:38that you're
41:40no longer a killer
41:41and that you would
41:43terminate this interview
41:44if we called you that.
41:47Do you remember that?
41:48Yeah, I do.
41:48Here you are
41:50responsible for
41:52the lifelong
41:53torment of an
41:54entire family
41:55and you're
41:56quibbling over
41:57being labeled
41:58a killer?
42:00Isn't that
42:01selfish of you?
42:02I'd say
42:03it wasn't selfish
42:05but I would say
42:07that
42:07it is
42:10not right
42:11to label
42:13by someone
42:13by what they were
42:14instead of what they are.
42:15even if your
42:17God forgives you
42:19you'll always
42:21and forever
42:21be a murderer,
42:22Julius.
42:24Right?
42:25Yep.
42:28Mullins never
42:28terminated the interview
42:29but he did
42:30end it with more
42:31self-pity
42:32than sympathy
42:33for his victims.
42:35You have hope?
42:36I do.
42:38Even though
42:39you've deprived
42:40that family of it
42:41you're better off
42:43than they are
42:43on that level, right?
42:45on so many levels
42:49you're fortunate
42:50compared to them.
42:52I'd say less.
42:55They have a lot
42:56more than I have.
42:57The only thing I have
42:58is
42:58something to look
43:01forward to
43:01and they
43:02have something
43:03to think about
43:05because they lost it.
43:07You think you're
43:09less fortunate
43:11than they are?
43:12I do.
43:14Yes, I took
43:16their mother
43:16out of their lives
43:17but
43:17they have the ability
43:19just like you
43:20and
43:20they can do
43:22whatever they want
43:23to do.
43:24Wow.
43:25That is a remarkable
43:27lack of empathy,
43:28Julius.
43:28I think they have
43:32more opportunities
43:35and resources
43:39that are available
43:40to help them
43:42to help them
43:43get through
43:44what I did
43:44and how I
43:45destroyed their family.
43:48Did you
43:48read the victim
43:50impact statements
43:51that were submitted
43:52to the court?
43:53I don't think I did.
43:54When Mullins was
43:57sentenced,
43:57Manuela Allen's
43:58husband and daughter
43:59shared their
43:59eternal grief
44:00with the court.
44:02Their heartbreaking
44:02words seemingly
44:04lost on this
44:05young killer,
44:06even now.
44:09Before my mother
44:10was murdered,
44:11I had a happy
44:12family.
44:13Now I have a shell
44:14of my former home
44:16and our family
44:18has been destroyed.
44:20My life is a
44:21living nightmare
44:22and I will never
44:23be able to escape.
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