00:00Now here in Paris, the French and multinational Lafarge is on trial today, accused of paying the Islamic State group and other jihadists protection money to stop its factories from being targeted during the Syrian civil war.
00:13In the US, the French firm has already pleaded guilty of conspiring to provide material support to terrorist organisations and agreed to pay a huge fine in what was the first such case of a charge against a corporation.
00:27Now here in France, the company could face a fine of up to 1.2 million euros if found guilty of funding terrorism and much more if it's found to have breached sanctions.
00:39Joining me now is Canel Lavite, co-director of business and human rights program at the European Centre for Constitutional and Human Rights.
00:47Thank you so much for your time.
00:49Why is this trial considered to be so important?
00:53Well, it is indeed a historic trial because it is the first time in France that a company as a legal entity is facing trial for financing of a terrorist enterprise.
01:06But also even more, it is the first time that a company is facing this charge for payments that have been made through its subsidiaries abroad.
01:13Companies have been enjoying a lot of impunity, transnational companies, multinational companies have been enjoying impunity, even though they are prioritising profits over human rights, over the safety of their employees.
01:27This is what we can see very clearly in this case.
01:30And very often their defence, and this has been one of Lafarge's defence in this trial, is that they could not know what was happening abroad through their subsidiaries and they have no say in it.
01:40And for this trial, the judges have come up with an order that refers Lafarge to face financing of a terrorist enterprise,
01:49mentioning specifically that Lafarge, as a headquarter in Paris, had the capitalistic control of its subsidiary in Syria, up to 99%,
01:58but also that the payments made to three terrorist groups, Al-Nusraa, ISIS and Al-Sharam, for an amount of €5 million approximately,
02:08has been done with the knowledge and the validation of the corporate executives within the headquarters at Paris.
02:16So how has the company responded to the accusations?
02:19So the company has responded with arguments that we see quite recurrently in those type of cases.
02:29It has said, for instance, that the decisions were taken by, you know, bad apples, corporate executives,
02:35that were not representing the interests of the company.
02:38But this has also been invalidated by the order of the judges to refer them to trial,
02:43because in this order, the judges have noted that the decisions to make those payments to terrorist groups
02:50were entirely integrated in the strategy of the model company, the group Lafarge,
02:56but also that they were driven by the interest to maintain the profit and the investment that Lafarge had through its factory in Syria,
03:04which corresponded to an investment of €680 million that it had made back then in 2010.
03:13What impact could the verdict have on other international corporations?
03:20It could have a huge impact because it is basically sending a strong signal that whether making the argument
03:27that they are operating in an armed conflict in order to maintain their commercial activities up and running,
03:36or whether they're doing this companies without the knowledge that their actions are going to facilitate the commission of crimes.
03:43These are not valid defences.
03:45The Supreme Court in France, in this very case, has already said in a historic ruling
03:50that there was no necessity for a company to be found charged for complicity in crimes against humanity,
03:59that it shared the intent to commit or to facilitate the commission of international crimes.
04:05And in this case, on financing of a terrorist enterprise,
04:09what we hope to get from this trial is also a clarification that it doesn't matter if Lafarge did not want
04:17that its payments would contribute or facilitate the commission of terrorism acts.
04:23What matters is that it knew that its payments could contribute to such crime.
04:30And this is a very strong signal sent to multinationals.
04:33And another very strong impact that we hope this trial will have is that it will restore the double standards
04:40that we've seen very strongly in this case on the lives of Syrian employees and the life of foreign employees.
04:46We see in this case that in 2012, the situation in Syria and around the factory of Lafarge subsidiary
04:53was extremely tense, extremely violent.
04:56Its former employees started to be adopted already in 2012.
05:00And at that time, in July 2012, Lafarge decided to evacuate its foreign employees,
05:06but it lets its local employees continue to work.
05:10And even, as it is said in the criminal inquiry, it has exerted allegedly pressure on its local employees
05:18for them to come to work at all costs, despite the risks that these employees were facing
05:23as they had to cross checkpoints that were controlled by the Islamic State and other terrorist groups.
05:29Kanel, we're going to have to leave it there.
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