00:00And for more, let's go to London. Emma Connolly is research fellow at the Digital Speech Lab of University College London, UCL.
00:08Thank you so much for being with us here on France 24.
00:12So let's take a look at Zoran Mamdani's campaign, in particular, his TikToks, instrumental in upsetting the favorites in the primary.
00:22We can show one in an iconic New York setting, Brooklyn's Coney Island Beach.
00:27Freezing. Your rep as the next mayor of New York City. Let's plunge into the details.
00:38And there you saw him wearing a suit and tie, dive into the Atlantic Ocean.
00:47Emma Connolly, this campaigning by TikTok, is it any different from past social media campaigns?
00:57I think that's a really interesting question. I think when we look at TikTok, we have to look at both its positive and negative influences.
01:06It has really been tipped as a way to connect with younger audiences.
01:10We know Mamdani's young. Its popularity means that political actors can connect, potentially reach lots of people.
01:19And possibly most importantly, its blurring of entertainment and politics can make politics resonate with the people who perhaps aren't so politically engaged or even looking explicitly for political content.
01:31So I think TikTok presents a really powerful opportunity for political actors to be able to do that.
01:39I think, however, the research is still coming in as to the direct correlation between engagement on TikTok and social media more widely and electoral success.
01:50We don't know necessarily the exact mechanisms through which social media engagement, TikTok engagement drives, drives, drives, drives voting behavior.
02:01It probably has some impact, even if this is more indirect.
02:07So clearly it has a powerful potential.
02:11But I think the research is still not quite there as to exactly, exactly how this translates into those.
02:16We've seen in other contexts, politician parrots, for example, last year, with strong social media preferences, but failed to ultimately translate those into votes.
02:26In other instances, we can think back to elections recently in places like Romania and Moldova.
02:32They have, and sometimes they've had low budget campaigns thanks to TikTok.
02:37Is there something particular about TikTok?
02:40This blurring that you describe of entertainment and politics, that's nothing new.
02:45But is there something special in the secret sauce of a TikTok algorithm?
02:53Well, for that, we would have to know exactly how the TikTok algorithm works, and we don't.
02:59But I think there's definitely something to say about the type of viral kind of buzz that it generates.
03:05And it does differ from other social media platforms in the way that users are encouraged to participate, whether it be through a variety of different actions.
03:14And that can make people feel more connected with what they're seeing on social media.
03:21And I think that is different to other platforms, for example, X or even Instagram has a strong aesthetic presence.
03:30So what you're saying is that what you're suggesting is that TikTok encourages more viewer engagement than Instagram?
03:43I think it encourages more participatory behavior through the way that, for example, people are invited to participate in trends.
03:55And it creates kind of a viral type buzz around news, around news content.
04:01But like I said, you know, whether a video has been seen a certain number of times, we're not quite sure yet whether that's the direct impact on voting behavior, whether there is.
04:14Or whether it's better for your video, perhaps, to reach a smaller number of people, but for those people to actually actively engage with it.
04:23I think when we look at someone like Mamdani, he uses social media really effectively.
04:30But I think we can't forget that this campaign isn't just about his use of social media or his use of TikTok.
04:38He's also backed up all of the things that he's done really well on TikTok and on Instagram.
04:45He's got a strong Instagram presence.
04:47But he's backed this up really, really strongly with strong on the ground campaigning.
04:52He's been out mobilizing.
04:54He's been talking to the people of New York.
04:58And he's got really clear messaging.
05:00So I think the buzz is certainly – a lot of the buzz is certainly around the way that he's been able to leverage the power of TikTok and Instagram.
05:12But I think it would be doing him a disservice to all the other things that he's been doing alongside that as well.
05:18Yeah, because on that point, there is another product of New York City, the 79-year-old president of the United States, Donald Trump, who also had a very successful TikTok campaign last year, not the same political family at all.
05:36What does that tell you, the fact that they're both successful on TikTok?
05:40And are they successful in different ways?
05:42Yeah, again, I think that's a really interesting question.
05:50And I think people are going to be looking at the way – the differences that these two have been able to leverage TikTok.
05:56I think what we're seeing is two people with – certainly with different styles on the same platform.
06:06I think perhaps in the past, I think maybe the overriding kind of sentiment is that Trump's kind of form of populism has really found a home on social media, not just TikTok, but through other formats as well.
06:25And that's the kind of content that we see amplified by social media algorithms.
06:30Does TikTok favor more people who stake out a more radical view, whether it's to the left or to the right?
06:42Well, I think there's certainly a view that that is the case.
06:47I don't think that's unique to TikTok.
06:48I think algorithms in general, you know, are kind of prioritizing perhaps more extreme or sensationalized types of content.
07:00There's actually some evidence to suggest that TikTok perhaps maybe mitigates some of that kind of behavior and perhaps open up channels for cross-cutting political discussion.
07:11But I think, you know, the research is still very new on that.
07:14So I think it's really hard to say.
07:18But I think what we're seeing from Mandani, I think it's a bit of a shift because I think in the past, you know, I think there has been a view that social media has perhaps been more of a home for maybe slightly more right-wing or Republican views.
07:34And I think what we're seeing here is that it can be a useful tool for the Democrats, too.
07:42I mentioned Harris earlier.
07:44We didn't see her campaign translating into electoral success.
07:50And only time will tell us in this one.
07:52But, you know, I think there will be other politicians who are looking at this closely to perhaps see, you know, whether this could be a blueprint for success, you know, going forward to the Democrats in general.
08:09You said earlier, Emma Connolly, and this will be my final question, that, you know, there's still so much we don't know yet about TikTok.
08:17But we know that we're going to have a presidential election in this country in 2027.
08:22Those who are the most right now adept at using TikTok are the far right in this country.
08:28There are strict rules in France when it comes to equal time, when it comes to broadcasting channels such as ours, France 24.
08:37We have somebody who keeps a stopwatch to make sure there's equal time for all the candidates.
08:43On social media, it's the Wild West.
08:46Should there be more regulation when it comes to campaign laws, when it comes to social media?
08:53Yeah, I think that's really tricky.
08:56Yeah, I think as far as I'm aware, I think TikTok bans direct political advertising.
09:00So in terms of engaging the electorate, it is political actors kind of taking a bit more of an organic and grassroots approach anyway.
09:12You know, I think there's a lot of sentiment around how TikTok is going to be influential.
09:20You know, you mentioned France.
09:22In the UK, this is also becoming contextually relevant.
09:26With possible voting legislation to lower votes to 16.
09:29But we also have to consider the flip side of that as well.
09:33There are other countries who are banning social media for younger users, either outright or partially.
09:43And there's potential that other countries could follow suit.
09:47I think France was possibly one of the countries considering a digital curfew for younger users to kind of regulate their social media use.
09:58So, yeah, you mentioned there's a lot that we that we don't know about TikTok.
10:04And, you know, in terms of its influence in elections and campaigns, I think that that still remains really uncertain.
10:12Emma Connolly, so many thanks for joining us from London.
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