Girlbands Forever Season 1 Episode 1

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Transcript

00:00:00And the winner is

00:00:22We have been together for 10 years

00:00:25Can I just say 10 years

00:00:27It's been the best years of our life

00:00:29We have gone through so much

00:00:33It's not easy being a female in the UK pop industry

00:00:37I'm hoping with this documentary

00:00:40People will get to realise that it really was all smoke and mirrors

00:00:45We've seen the white male dominance

00:00:47Misogyny, sexism and lack of diversity

00:00:51There are so many times I could have given up

00:00:54So many times where I felt like I was on my very last legs and I didn't

00:01:00We're proud of how we've stuck together

00:01:03Stood our ground, surrounded ourselves with strong women

00:01:06And are now using our voices more than ever

00:01:09This is my journey

00:01:11This is where it all began for me

00:01:13It was fucking hard

00:01:14So this award isn't just for us

00:01:17It's for the Spice Girls

00:01:19Sugar Pigs

00:01:21All since Girls Aloud

00:01:23I didn't want to do this documentary

00:01:26But at the same time for the shit and the traumas and triggers and the toxic stuff

00:01:32We were part of pop culture

00:01:34And I want to be proud

00:01:39And I am proud

00:01:43This is the story of an unlikely group of musical disruptors

00:01:48Who sang, danced and wrapped their way to pop stardom

00:01:51The northern working class girls, they won the battle

00:01:56Cool, raw, sassy

00:02:00We weren't one hit wonders and we were a force to be reckoned with

00:02:03Propelled and shaped by musical visionaries

00:02:06And they were still kids, you know, they were so young

00:02:08Essentially we became their pets

00:02:13They were idolised by millions

00:02:15You're the best, the best women in the world

00:02:19I associate fame with being loved

00:02:21But it almost killed me as well

00:02:24Hounded by the media

00:02:26You were too fat, you were too thin

00:02:28The press were brutal

00:02:30And pushed to the edge by an industry that wanted to tame them

00:02:33They were controlling what we ate

00:02:36That was crazy

00:02:37But that's what they did

00:02:41Girl bands

00:02:42It's a hard world

00:02:44It's a tough business

00:02:45All safe, eternal

00:02:46The Spice Girls

00:02:49If it means that I need to leave this band

00:02:51To have this baby

00:02:52I'm gonna leave

00:02:53We battle the social media trolls together

00:02:59You become a sisterhood

00:03:00You can't really survive that unless you do

00:03:16I wanna pack, I wanna pack, I wanna pack, I wanna pack

00:03:18I wanna really, really, really wanna think I think

00:03:221997 and just one year after the Spice Girls released their debut single Wannabe

00:03:27The group had achieved world domination

00:03:30An amazing thing has happened today

00:03:32Spice Girls outsold Boys Zone by about five to one

00:03:35And was unleashing girl power on the nation

00:03:41Girl power's coming at ya

00:03:43If you wanna be my lover

00:03:48But watching on with mixed feelings were some of the Spice Girls' forerunners

00:03:57Is it called Zig-A-Zig-A or is it called If You Wanna Be My Lover?

00:04:00It's called Wannabe

00:04:01That's it

00:04:03I think the first time I heard it

00:04:05I remember just thinking

00:04:06Well, really?

00:04:14I thought it was an unfinished mix that had got leaked to the press

00:04:18So I was like, oh, this can't be a record, really?

00:04:20And then they just blew up so quickly

00:04:22And we were like, hello, what about us?

00:04:25Because we've been working for so many years

00:04:27Five years before the Spice Girls went global, Britain was in a royal mess

00:04:36A scene of chaos and destruction

00:04:38This castle, dating back to the 9th century, now struck at its very heart

00:04:45Utter turmoil in the money markets

00:04:47For the first time ever, the government has put up interest rates twice in one day

00:04:52Officials on the tour admitted for the first time that the marriage was in trouble

00:04:571992 just turned out to be an endless or rebellious

00:05:07Luckily for the nation's morale, relief arrived

00:05:11From the USA

00:05:21American girl groups with lyrics full of attitude were storming the UK charts

00:05:26And caught the attention of an ambitious music producer

00:05:31I never look for a gap in the market

00:05:33I make a gap in the market

00:05:34We'll take a leaf out of a movie that I watch

00:05:36With Kevin Costner

00:05:38Build it and they will come

00:05:40In the 90s we had a lot of American girl bands coming to the United Kingdom

00:05:58My father was a minister so I'm heavily influenced by three-part harmony

00:06:10But I wanted to put a girl band together with a British twist

00:06:14To have a twinge of London, underground, edge

00:06:22I'm a dream maker, baby

00:06:24As luck would have it, Ron wouldn't have to wait long to find the first member of his new three-piece

00:06:33Hello

00:06:35I am Mel from the 90s

00:06:44Born in North London to a French mother and British father

00:06:46Melanie was a young teen when she decided to pursue her dream of becoming a singer

00:06:51I love music singing and dancing

00:06:59But no one was telling me you were supposed to train like an athlete

00:07:02And run on the treadmill and practice your singing while you're dancing

00:07:05I was just smoking silk cut and hoping for the best

00:07:08At that time we were suddenly getting all the videos all the r&b and hip-hop videos from the states which i'd never really seen before

00:07:17swv on vogue and all these bands

00:07:23I mean they were just so cool

00:07:26I'd lived in france before and we never lived long enough anywhere for me to sort of have like a group of friends

00:07:32So i was just super like attracted to that like i just thought i want to be a part of that gang

00:07:42Mel's passion for music took her to a studio in west london's ladbrook grove

00:07:47Which happened to belong to ron

00:07:50I started going down there and hanging out

00:07:54Singing and dancing waiting kind of to be discovered

00:07:58melanie she was beautiful i thought she had the most beautiful little voice but

00:08:05Having one girl would not be enough three is a magic number

00:08:13so you asked me here for what time

00:08:17we're all working as separate artists and then um a couple years ago

00:08:21I know i decided to put us together to do that

00:08:24to complete his three-part harmony ron enlisted singer shazna lewis and simone rainford

00:08:32and formed a band named after their studios road and the year they were born

00:08:36Oh six one nine seven five

00:08:41simone sang lead while shazna and mel provided backing vocals

00:08:46when shaz and i started off harmonies were everything to us

00:08:50that was i think the thing that clicked with us when our voices blended so well together

00:09:06i think one of the great things is the fact that they are fresh um they have fresh ideas fresh voices

00:09:11and the record company they offered us 500 quid each and i was like come on let's do this

00:09:25that's what it took in those that to me was like a million pounds my plans for the future uh to see

00:09:31all saints go right at the top but chaz and i wanted to make our own music

00:09:38and we weren't choosing what music we were making it was being chosen by the production studio where

00:09:45we were coming from and perhaps they felt like they could do better without me

00:09:54girl bands it's a tough business great idea ron thank you very much bye-bye

00:10:08leaving ron and simone in the dust mel and shazna set off as a two-piece to search for a sound they

00:10:15could call their own i'd never been to college i'd never been to uni i'd never really even had a job

00:10:25but full of dreams and hope

00:10:28i really wanted to make it

00:10:40across london another group of girls were starting out as a four-piece

00:10:44the higher you build your very from a very different musical tradition

00:10:58hello hello i am kelly bryan formerly of the band eternal

00:11:04there wasn't another band like us in the landscape at the time three black girls one white

00:11:20originally we were called him hymn as in our gospel roots

00:11:24you can deny me esther and vernie they're really amazing singers they had church backgrounds i grew

00:11:33up in church also something inside so strong

00:11:40him is a terrible name

00:11:44born in plaster east london kelly's quest for stardom started when she won a scholarship to stage school

00:11:51aged 11. being black being the shape that i was you were never seen as having an opportunity or hope

00:11:59of being successful it made me work extra hard and it was here that kelly met someone who would

00:12:08change the course of her life louise and i we were both scholarship kids both from working class

00:12:15backgrounds we instantly just gravitated to each other she was so super cute and she was just delightfully pretty and summery

00:12:29we'd always be like singing into hairbrushes making up dances yeah we had a lot of fun together

00:12:36in those days we were coming off the back of a massive explosion of acid music and that kind of stuff

00:12:49louise and i used to go out clubbing it was underage sorry about that

00:12:57we're on the dance floor and this guy came up to louise and he was like oh i'm a record producer

00:13:04here's my card and we were like yeah sure you are one day we're in class and she was like trying to

00:13:12build up the courage to call the number so we were like you can do it she put the money in we were

00:13:19standing around the phone and she got put through it was him he was a real record producer

00:13:28i look up to the pair auditioned and both girls were taken on by first avenue management

00:13:35i was hugely excited i mean you're 15 you've been paid 300 pounds a week i just thought i'd made it

00:13:41like 300 quid a week what you know like yeah and i was going to be with louise i was like it's your

00:13:49dream job with your best friend to complete the girl group the duo was teamed up with a pair of gospel

00:13:57singing sisters from south london i'm esther hi i'm kelly hi i'm bernie and i'm louise

00:14:04and guess what we're eternal after months of rehearsals the group put on showcases for record

00:14:13labels but struggled to get signed eventually we met emi jean francois i feel so comfortable

00:14:24i feel so good this one is good this one actually is really good

00:14:26i worked with kate bush diana ross you know turner queen they were for me the archetype of

00:14:41female music power at the time i was ready for something new first time i saw the eternal

00:14:50i think they were gorgeous but people were actually saying you're taking a risk signing

00:14:55the girls and breaking them some record companies just didn't get it there wasn't another band in

00:15:03the landscape at the time that had that interracial dynamic they didn't get the music being sort of r

00:15:11and b and a lot slower in terms of the bpm they just didn't get how it was going to be marketable

00:15:16i see but then you see them singing and say wow nobody knows

00:15:28okay let's give them a shot he was like i get it i get it he just totally he got it immediately and

00:15:34completely loved it i was like perfect where do i sign

00:15:50i want you back

00:15:58john francois bet on the girls with a five album deal

00:16:04and the group launched their debut single stay

00:16:07they really brought strong church-influenced vocals you could tell those girls love the lord like

00:16:22they had a slickness about them just the vocal production the styling they just sounded amazing

00:16:30together

00:16:44stay climbed to number four in the charts the first hit of the uk girl band era

00:16:51when i first heard stay on the radio i was with louise

00:16:55we screamed and we were jumping around our room

00:17:17number four i was i was not happy it's not good enough

00:17:20you see you only remember when you're number one i put some huge posters like this eternal number one and

00:17:32i put them in every open space in the label i think guys as long as i'm not number one

00:17:39we stop breathing so let's do it

00:17:41we stop breathing so let's do it

00:17:44eternal for me was a very slick and sort of soul r&b act but i didn't think it would have that mass appeal

00:17:55girl bands are a different science to boys

00:17:59you've got to get it right on the nose with a girl band

00:18:04my ambition was to put together a young bubblegum kind of pop act

00:18:10and to have commercial success but on a global scale

00:18:18i was watching tv shows like friends

00:18:27they were so appealing because the audience could identify with at least one character or aspire to be

00:18:34them

00:18:38my idea was to take a band

00:18:42and get every girl to identify with a member in that band

00:18:47so that you can appeal to every sector of the market

00:18:50to appeal to the broadest possible audience chris held auditions with hundreds of girl band hopefuls

00:19:05mel b had a cool look about her but she didn't really know it that was a massive ingredient which we

00:19:12needed

00:19:17mel c was confident her voice really cut through

00:19:26victoria didn't have a lot in the repertoire

00:19:29but she had air and grace she could appeal to an older demographic

00:19:37my ambition

00:19:40it's obviously to make it really big really big with the girls

00:19:43emma had this naive kind of cuteness about her really sweet

00:19:50hello

00:19:51with jerry the doors flung open she went hi i'm jerry i could be a 17 year old with big tits or i could be

00:19:58you know and and she made this entrance and you were like wow what's just happened i'm quite hungry

00:20:04for fame jeremy i just need my ego fed i'll be honest with the auditions done chris had chosen

00:20:11his five wannabes i felt like we could achieve a real kind of cross-section of all the different

00:20:18characters that i thought made up the female spectrum really

00:20:29having found his cast of female friends chris now needed to shape them into an all-conquering ensemble

00:20:40you don't actually realize how much work you've got left to do i had a great songwriting session

00:20:46booked for them up in sheffield but i think we said to the girls now you're not ready

00:20:54until you can sort yourselves out i'm not sending you up in this this state so we we put the session

00:20:59on hold if you think about it chris all we get all week is you've got miles to go we don't ever get

00:21:08anybody honestly that's all we've got i'll tell you what there's millions of kids out there want to be

00:21:14pop stars do you mean and we're actually taking a step closer and closer to a dream do you know

00:21:19what i mean i love yeah jerry in particular wanted to speed the whole process up and much faster than

00:21:25i was prepared to go there was a massive fallout and i think they slammed the phone down on me

00:21:33with the parting words see you won't want to be here and with that the spice girl sacked the spice maker

00:21:48i was gutted i was definitely gutted because you know it was like being having the dirty done on you by

00:21:54a best friend or a you know a girlfriend but they had unwavering ambition and hunger for success and fame

00:22:06while the spice girls were being put together shaz and mel had been trying to kickstart their girl band

00:22:22and i were winding for years just me and her we'd go and doing road shows and gigging and up and

00:22:36down the country nightclub pas and all that kind of stuff despite their efforts the duo's first single

00:22:45failed to fail to crack the top 100. now i can look back and see we needed to appeal to a wider range

00:22:53but those were the best days because you're just there in the moment creating this music

00:22:59let me switch but while success eluded the duo a close friendship was forged on the road

00:23:17i just thought shaz was the coolest person i'd ever met she was just gorgeous and cool

00:23:23and i just fell in love their friendship was the most important thing to me in those days

00:23:32hey my name's melanie hey i'm shazley oh my god i remember this

00:23:41hello you've got to dance like this you've got to dress like that you've got to look like this and

00:23:46talk like that i know it's my goodness i'm trying to be so cool literally with babies the bass sound

00:23:57sweet so let's get started baby you and me we party on down we can make chemistry as she grew in

00:24:03confidence shaz had assumed the role of songwriter her lyrics now just needed the right sound behind

00:24:10them yeah all good take two audio track 10. i got a call to say there's a girl band looking for a new

00:24:24producer you up for it and at first i was a bit like girl band

00:24:30i was just hip-hop hip-hop hip-hop but i thought give it a go do you know what i mean

00:24:43so i made them a cd full of my tracks which were initially made with rappers in mind

00:24:50and then i got a call to say the girls have recorded a song on one of your beats

00:24:54i got in the car with their cassette i heard the piano dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun and then

00:25:02i know where it's at oh this is dope

00:25:08but it was a hip-hop track with a pop girl band singing on it

00:25:24but i don't think the record company got it

00:25:29and it got shelved and that was the end of that for that for that moment in time

00:25:34failing to convince the record label with their new sound mel and shazny were dropped

00:25:48is this the first time you've been in a helicopter yeah are you good just a bit

00:25:54and as all saints again stalled eternal were taking off with their new sights set on their first number

00:26:00one

00:26:07have you ever played to a crowd that big before

00:26:14every time we kind of go out and do a pa it gets bigger the crowd is bigger

00:26:18louise was who i was closest with we were just working so hard to ensure that every song was a hit

00:26:26but their relentless pursuit of a chart tupper was coming at a cost

00:26:37it's very hard to be at number one it's very hard it demands a lot of time a lot of energy ready here we

00:26:45go and play back there are times the music industry can be relentless you record you do an interview you

00:26:56get back on a plane you travel you work and you are either on the train or you're tagging along behind

00:27:02you have a good day one day and then the next day you get home sick all them kind of things build up for

00:27:16me and get me making what am i doing i knew that lou had been struggling for a while homesickness and stuff like that

00:27:25i remember her saying to me i i don't think i can do this anymore and then she was like right on i'll go solo

00:27:46i just wanted to kind of make the break at a convenient time rather than do an album and leave

00:27:50halfway through an album everybody sort of gets one chance we all wanted to go out there and do what

00:27:55we feel happiest doing they were like the biggest girls band in the uk at the time for the public

00:28:00everything was going so well and suddenly it goes so wrong you know and you're like why some people

00:28:07got the wrong impression at one point they thought that the white girls being kicked out of the group

00:28:12in the 90s being part of an interracial band they'd make a thing about it oh you know did louise

00:28:20leave because she was white and it just wasn't true why do you think she left i have no idea you

00:28:27know why because i never asked i knew it would change the band because it would never be the same

00:28:34without louise you know i was more on my own so to speak but there isn't really much time for

00:28:44reflection the only thing i can think of is like dory just keep swimming just keep swimming you'll be

00:28:50fine just keep going you'll be fine deep inside i had serious doubts what if they lose the magic of

00:28:59being together now a three-piece and under mounting pressure to succeed the girl's appearance came under

00:29:11scrutiny people were always voicing concerns about my weight and about our weight as a band

00:29:21stylists would come along and say oh this doesn't fit you this doesn't fit you

00:29:26we're talking about an era where being a size zero was popular where women looking like supermodels was

00:29:35important and so they sent us away to this place in the middle of the countryside where they were controlling

00:29:45what we ate

00:29:50it just was

00:29:54you know when i look back on it i think that was crazy but that's what they did

00:29:58i have no idea they never told me that

00:30:04i thought no she was gorgeous

00:30:08the band's first release as a three-piece would be a crucial test

00:30:11and a chance for them to take control of their message

00:30:16the next act we've got everything going for them it's eternal where's louise

00:30:25it made sense for us to release an anthem just really empowering women despite

00:30:44your color your race your size because we were empowered to move forward despite what was going

00:30:50on around us

00:31:01they are there to empower it's very much their statement of intent

00:31:07they're embracing the feminist banger is what they're doing

00:31:21though still not a chart topper the song reached number five to the relief of their record label

00:31:29relief is an understatement i knew it was the start of the next phase of their career

00:31:41and actually there's this identification process for girls seeing other girls on stage being powerful

00:31:49the girl power stuff from the 90s started at that time

00:32:02the girl power was about to be the property of another band

00:32:14we did have eternal at the time but i wanted to work a girl group i was desperate

00:32:25we were ready for something different

00:32:27that's my forte breaking new bands new artists

00:32:37luckily for nikki up and coming music mogul simon fuller had just signed a new act

00:32:43i just remember thinking what is this

00:33:13who is this i want to be their friend

00:33:19we were like whoa where did this come from i was like oh this can't be a record really

00:33:23and everyone was like no no that's it and i was like a zigzag

00:33:26they were like yeah they were like yeah no no no it's real i was like oh this is a thing

00:33:42the spice girl's debut single wannabe showcased their market ready personas using a history-making video

00:33:49the video is all filmed on one shot

00:33:52now you know how i feel

00:33:54i can't stress enough how important music videos were back in the day

00:34:00so tell me what the spice girls had such a strong image that after the first video

00:34:07if you wanna be would be number one in 37 countries making household names of sporty

00:34:20posh baby ginger and scary i mean it was just brilliant piece of marketing because

00:34:26there was a character for every single person in your friendship group

00:34:33jerry ginger was my one she couldn't really sing that well which probably resonated with me because

00:34:38i can't either who do you think i was but at the same time even if you physically didn't look

00:34:44exactly like one of the five you could still identify you know because i i really identified

00:34:49what sport is because i used to run track if you want to be my lover i genuinely had a problem with

00:34:54them all the years of work we put in and then they just came out and blew up so quickly

00:35:05and were obviously manufactured the band was made for a purpose

00:35:10when i first heard wannabe i wasn't convinced but my daughter then was like i don't know four or

00:35:21five so it took me about two minutes before it came the anthem of the house you know what i mean it

00:35:26was like yeah okay fine i got it yeah right okay yeah fine i mean we knew we had something special

00:35:32i don't think any of us were ready for how huge they came on that global stage

00:35:37a labour prime minister in number 10 after 18 years of conservative rule

00:35:51just over halfway through the decades britain was wee brandon

00:35:58the musical landscape became very brit pop it was pulp it was blur it was of course oasis

00:36:08two billion pounds is what the bankers credit suites reckon the uk music industry will soon be worth

00:36:13double its current value there was that real feeling of renewal suddenly britain was cool again

00:36:21the spice girls became one of the elite bands who flew the flag for the british pop industry

00:36:38and it wasn't long before spice fever reached pandemic proportions

00:36:57i love them this is the best group in the world

00:36:59i watched like a proud older brother

00:37:10i was like oh my god this is this is sensational

00:37:14the spice girls the spice girls first two albums would sell almost 40 million copies worldwide

00:37:24this could be the new age of all girl bands

00:37:27and their brand became defined by two words

00:37:38yeah

00:37:39that's what they are

00:37:44girl power please come on girls didn't get more power because of the spice girls

00:37:51Yeah, it was called EMI power, is what it was called.

00:37:54Girl power has found its way onto bags, pens, boxes.

00:37:59There's even something for organised spice.

00:38:02Spice Girls Limited operate a mail-order business

00:38:05selling everything from jackets to mugs and T-shirts.

00:38:09Girl power. You know, our fans always go,

00:38:11you were first, a powerful woman came first.

00:38:13Yeah, then they kind of cottoned on to,

00:38:15oh, yes, this works, this concept.

00:38:18We didn't care, just so long as women were getting their say

00:38:20and the more women in the industry, the better.

00:38:23What did girl power mean to you?

00:38:25Nothing.

00:38:27We weren't thinking about girls and boys

00:38:29and we were just thinking of,

00:38:30we want to get our harmonies straight and be in the studio.

00:38:34Despite years of hard work,

00:38:37Mel and Shazney hadn't made it out of the starting blocks.

00:38:41We'd already sort of, like,

00:38:43felt like we'd been in the game for a long time.

00:38:46So far, their highest-charting single

00:38:49had only made it to number 93.

00:38:51To succeed, they needed to change.

00:38:55We needed to be perhaps more pop or just...

00:38:59Yeah, just play the game.

00:39:03And I've always found it hard to play the game.

00:39:08Shaz thought we needed more people.

00:39:12I wasn't so sure.

00:39:14I liked it being just me and her.

00:39:16But I complied.

00:39:20So, on a council estate in Suffolk,

00:39:22the band were relaunching themselves.

00:39:25Yes, I'm here in Derby Way Newmarket,

00:39:27but I've just seen some girls that I don't think are residents.

00:39:29Do you?

00:39:29No, they're not.

00:39:30They don't really look like residents of Derby Way, do they?

00:39:31Of course they're not,

00:39:32because they're the fantastic new girl band.

00:39:34They're called All Saints!

00:39:35Woo-hoo!

00:39:37Looking back,

00:39:38I can see why it worked as a foursome.

00:39:42I know where we tend

00:39:44I know, I know, I know

00:39:47If you tend to have a good time

00:39:52I know if you tend to have a good time

00:39:54With the addition of Mel's childhood friends,

00:39:56Nicole and Natalie Appleton,

00:39:58All Saints finally landed a No. 4 hit.

00:40:06Nick and I, we've been best friends since we were 11.

00:40:12Our voices, when we started singing together,

00:40:15it created our own sound quite quickly.

00:40:18And also, Nick and Nat,

00:40:20they've got huge charisma.

00:40:22I remember seeing them for the first time.

00:40:29They wore, like, little crop tops and combat trousers.

00:40:32You were just like,

00:40:33Wow, what is this?

00:40:35Everyone wanted to look like an All Saint.

00:40:36I know if you tend to have a good time

00:40:40I know if you tend to...

00:40:43The world needed the cool Spice Girls.

00:40:45I know if you tend to...

00:40:47Spice Girls had alienated a lot of older kids

00:40:51because they'd become so commercial.

00:40:54All Saints, they proved that you could not sell out

00:40:57but be a cool girl band

00:40:59and do something else with it.

00:41:02Hey!

00:41:03Fantastic! Spice Girls, look out!

00:41:05These girls are going to fly to the top of the show.

00:41:07OK, but anyway, right now...

00:41:08As part of their rebrand,

00:41:10All Saints had hooked up with a like-minded record company

00:41:13who they'd hoped would land them a chart topper.

00:41:16I think a lot of the labels were quite corporate.

00:41:19But London was loud, buzzing all the time.

00:41:30I mean, it was really quite sort of organised chaos.

00:41:35It was a big record company.

00:41:37They were serious.

00:41:38Visionaries.

00:41:39But it was run by a bunch of lunatics.

00:41:41DJing was always my life's mission.

00:41:46But it wasn't a job that really was going to allow you

00:41:49to kind of buy a house or pay a mortgage.

00:41:51So basically, I've always had a day job.

00:41:55Pete Tong's 9 to 5 in the early 90s

00:41:58saw him work with Salt-N-Pepa,

00:42:00Shakespeare's Sister and Bananarama.

00:42:02You were obsessed with girl bands, Pete.

00:42:06Not really, but I seem to be quite good at them.

00:42:11Like, we wanted to have hits.

00:42:15We always were kind of left of centre.

00:42:18We'd always sign the kind of more difficult band,

00:42:21the kind of cooler band.

00:42:22We got given a demo of All Saints, Never Ever,

00:42:27and I played it to my manager.

00:42:29A few questions that I need to know.

00:42:33How you could ever hurt me so.

00:42:35I don't think he ever played a demo

00:42:38as many times as he played Never Ever.

00:42:41Like, literally continuously.

00:42:42Like, it finished, he played it again.

00:42:44It finished, he played it again.

00:42:44This thing would go on for hours.

00:42:46Attention.

00:42:47Or did I not give enough affection?

00:42:50In a departure from her usual style,

00:42:53Shazney had written a break-up ballad

00:42:55that would set All Saints apart from their peers.

00:42:58You can tell me to my face.

00:43:00It was cool, you know.

00:43:02It felt quite futuristic.

00:43:04It was just so unusual.

00:43:06You couldn't ignore it.

00:43:07And not a copy of The Spice Girls.

00:43:09My head's spinning

00:43:12Boy, I'm in the day

00:43:17I feel isolated

00:43:20Don't want to communicate

00:43:23I'll take a shower

00:43:26It's an incredible song.

00:43:28It had that chemistry.

00:43:30It's a perfect summation of that magic that they had.

00:43:34I'm really in awe of it sometimes when I go and listen to it.

00:43:37I personally think Shazney Lewis is one of the most underrated

00:43:40British songwriting talents that we have.

00:43:43The power of her pen is serious.

00:43:46She's a fantastic lyricist.

00:43:47Yeah.

00:43:48Texting vocabulary runs right through me

00:43:52The alphabet runs right from A to Z

00:43:56You could say Shazney was like the Garry Barlow of All Saints.

00:44:00Whether she'd like to be known as that or not, I don't know.

00:44:03Never Ever is one of those songs that is timeless.

00:44:07It will be, you know, on the radio and being sung along to for years to come.

00:44:13Never Ever didn't just bring All Saints the number one they'd been chasing.

00:44:32It went on to spend a total of 26 weeks in the charts

00:44:35and sold almost 2 million copies.

00:44:38It was exciting.

00:44:40And especially after all the years of work we'd put in.

00:44:44We were over the moon.

00:44:46It was incredible.

00:44:48It was a dream come true.

00:44:49The way I'm feeling, yeah, it just don't feel right

00:44:53Never, ever, ever, ever, ever got so low

00:44:56The genie was out of the bottle then.

00:44:59There was no turning back.

00:45:00You know, the trajectory we went from there

00:45:02Crazy.

00:45:06Hey, Nut, Nick, Mel, and Shazney All Saints!

00:45:12They're obviously the biggest thing right now

00:45:14and I definitely have to get their autograph.

00:45:17Our first promotional trip was Japan.

00:45:20Then the rest of the world gets interested.

00:45:24Well, I mean, we just hit the ground running.

00:45:26Didn't have a clue.

00:45:30You've become so successful so quickly.

00:45:33How do you handle the fame?

00:45:34To be honest with you, it hasn't really sunk in like that

00:45:36and I don't think it ever will.

00:45:38They're the best!

00:45:39The best group in the world!

00:45:41I love All Saints!

00:45:43And then suddenly you're at the Brits.

00:45:44The Brits Award for the best single.

00:45:49All Saints!

00:45:52An elated and emotional All Saints won two awards at the Brits.

00:45:59They actually went up against the Spice Girls and cleaned up.

00:46:03Which comparison would you prefer, Eternal or the Spice Girls?

00:46:06Next!

00:46:06I know when I say this, I've got a reaction in a particular way.

00:46:10Spice Girls!

00:46:11The media was always going to put us against each other.

00:46:14It sells papers, it makes for an interesting story.

00:46:19But we just didn't want to be compared to the Spice Girls.

00:46:22They were just seeing this cooler and a bit more rock and roll.

00:46:30The yin to the yang.

00:46:31Like you had Blur and Oasis.

00:46:33You had the Beatles and the Rolling Stones.

00:46:35You can't have one without the other, man.

00:46:38For me, All Saints,

00:46:40they were girls that you could have a night out with.

00:46:42Cheers!

00:46:43All Saints in the house!

00:46:46I thought they were just really cool.

00:46:49I mean, we were turning up to kids' TV shows on Saturday mornings

00:46:53with not one wink of sleep.

00:46:56It just looked fine.

00:46:57Just a little bit of vomiting in the toilets prior to CD UK, but it was fine.

00:47:02I'm sure women were getting off their tits earlier than the 90s.

00:47:06Maybe we just didn't care so much.

00:47:12As their number one swept them to fame,

00:47:14the press became intent on getting behind the PR interviews

00:47:17and into their private lives.

00:47:20The tabloids, they would talk about anything.

00:47:24Celebrity boyfriends, they liked them.

00:47:27And there were a lot of celebrity boyfriends.

00:47:35Put it this way.

00:47:37Nick and Nat were highly desirable females.

00:47:41And they had their fair share of A-list men on their arse.

00:47:54They just enjoyed it, man.

00:47:56Why not?

00:47:58Nick and Nat got the brunt of it, for sure.

00:48:01But they were doing the right thing.

00:48:02They were doing what you're supposed to do when you're young, rich, famous.

00:48:07Jack Nicholson's made a whole career out of it.

00:48:10And nobody berates him.

00:48:11Today, it's a booty call.

00:48:17Waiting for sound, as usual.

00:48:20But whilst all Saints were bringing on the booty calls,

00:48:26Eternal had been praying for their own number one hit.

00:48:31Obviously, you've had huge chart success,

00:48:33but you've never actually quite reached number one.

00:48:36Does that actually bother you?

00:48:37Or are you genuinely pleased when you say hit number four?

00:48:40Is that enough for you?

00:48:43I've never shown any disappointment.

00:48:47But it's pop music.

00:48:48You want to be number one.

00:48:49It's not a rock band.

00:48:52And album after album, you build your fan base until you do Wembley.

00:48:56No, you don't have ten years.

00:48:58You have, you know, ten weeks.

00:49:01I think number one's coming time.

00:49:04It's not something that just jumps out of the box,

00:49:06you know what I mean?

00:49:06Just keep working on it.

00:49:09In those days, you had to be pop,

00:49:11because we were coming off the back of a massive pop explosion.

00:49:15And that was what was charting.

00:49:17The hits were not anything like ours.

00:49:21We all need the support.

00:49:22We all need the help from everyone.

00:49:24I don't think there's enough support for soul or R&B groups.

00:49:28But rather than abandon their sound,

00:49:33Eternal approached legendary gospel and R&B singer Bibi Winans

00:49:37and went back to their roots.

00:49:41I had grown up with the Winans.

00:49:43The girls had idolised the whole Winans family

00:49:47for as long as I can remember.

00:49:49It was very much their dream to get to work with Bibi.

00:49:52But the competition was becoming even stronger at the time.

00:49:58There were more and more girls' bands in the chart.

00:50:01I said, OK, fine, let's give it a shot.

00:50:05Five years after forming,

00:50:07the group released their latest single.

00:50:09And in a twist of fate,

00:50:12the job of revealing the new number one

00:50:14fell to the girl group's market leaders.

00:50:17It's a new number one and girls are on top.

00:50:20Guess it's their first number one

00:50:21with Bibi Winans,

00:50:23Eternal R,

00:50:24Eternal R!

00:50:24It worked.

00:50:33Yes, I see you crying

00:50:38Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

00:50:40And I feel you're broken

00:50:42It was a marriage made in heaven.

00:50:44His vocal and Esther's vocal

00:50:45sit so beautifully together.

00:50:48Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

00:50:49Still you...

00:50:50And I remember just being so excited

00:50:52that we had that first number one.

00:50:53It was just the most electric feeling.

00:50:57At last.

00:50:59You know, it's the cherry on the icing.

00:51:12It's crazy to think that we had that huge, long career

00:51:15of all of those hits

00:51:16and then we didn't actually have our first number one

00:51:19until 1997.

00:51:23It should have happened before.

00:51:29It should have happened before.

00:51:31But it happened.

00:51:32So...

00:51:33That's beautiful.

00:51:35Will you let me be, yeah?

00:51:38The only one!

00:51:39The only one!

00:51:41But then, Monday morning,

00:51:45you start from scratch.

00:51:4610am, it's like,

00:51:47OK, guys, let's go back

00:51:49because now we are nowhere.

00:51:52You're not number one

00:51:53all your life, all the time.

00:51:55One day,

00:51:57success is going to go away.

00:51:58What you don't know

00:52:00is when it is going to stop working.

00:52:06But whilst girl bands

00:52:08were celebrating chart success,

00:52:10not everyone was unhonoured with their antics.

00:52:14They're just a big money-making corporate machine,

00:52:17aren't they?

00:52:17You know, advertising crisps

00:52:18and cans of Coke and all that nonsense.

00:52:20They've got a single out now

00:52:21that you can only buy

00:52:22if you buy 20 cans of Pepsi.

00:52:23You know what I mean?

00:52:24I'm not into that.

00:52:25But no, good luck to them, you know.

00:52:26They're young girls.

00:52:27Or are they as young as they say?

00:52:28That's what I want to know.

00:52:29I'll tell you this, right?

00:52:31If Jerry Spice is 24,

00:52:32then she's going to look

00:52:33f***ing rough when she's 30.

00:52:35They're just cultivating this attitude,

00:52:38you know, like,

00:52:38push your way to the top.

00:52:40Doesn't matter if you've got talent,

00:52:41if you haven't got anything,

00:52:42you know, like, go for it.

00:52:43Look in the mirror every morning

00:52:44and get there.

00:52:45And, I mean, what, in fact,

00:52:46people are marketing

00:52:47is disgusting behaviour.

00:52:49I feel like back then

00:52:51there was a really small window

00:52:53where people celebrated

00:52:54the Spice Girls

00:52:55and celebrated

00:52:56the era of young women

00:52:58suddenly having a voice.

00:53:00But it was a small window.

00:53:03There was definitely

00:53:04a sort of shift

00:53:05in the way

00:53:06tabloids would write

00:53:07about the Spice Girls.

00:53:10The girls became

00:53:11much bigger than their music,

00:53:12so it was about their lives,

00:53:13it was about what they looked like,

00:53:14it was about what they were wearing,

00:53:16because you were public property.

00:53:18There are some paparazzi

00:53:20It's hailing us!

00:53:21The worst is a tabloid press.

00:53:23You know, one paper calls me

00:53:24a fat old slang.

00:53:26Soccer and Spice

00:53:27announcing their engagement.

00:53:29The press could be brutal,

00:53:31and back then,

00:53:32they had so much power

00:53:33and influence.

00:53:34There's a big hate campaign

00:53:36in a certain tabloid newspaper.

00:53:38I don't think people realise

00:53:39the mental cost

00:53:41fame can have on you.

00:53:44That constant being on

00:53:47was taking its toll.

00:53:48It was just a matter of time

00:53:54before one of them broke.

00:54:01Jerry has asked me

00:54:02to read the following statement.

00:54:05Sadly, I would like to confirm

00:54:07that I have left the Spice Girls.

00:54:09I won't cry

00:54:11Anymore

00:54:14It was really...

00:54:15It felt really sudden.

00:54:16Now that you've left me

00:54:19Really shocking.

00:54:21I thought immediately

00:54:23that that would be

00:54:23the end of the band.

00:54:24I don't know how they could

00:54:25carry on

00:54:26wounded.

00:54:29Rumours of a Spice split

00:54:30spilled onto the front pages

00:54:31of the nation's tabloids

00:54:32this morning.

00:54:33We haven't split up,

00:54:35but we're just doing

00:54:35solo work.

00:54:36Always a Spice girl,

00:54:38but always an individual.

00:54:39This is goodbye

00:54:41People were left thinking,

00:54:44well, hang on,

00:54:45what were you saying?

00:54:46What was all this girl power?

00:54:49Anymore

00:54:49There was a lot of attention

00:54:52on bands like All Saints

00:54:54around will they split up

00:54:56or won't they?

00:54:57Like, how long are they

00:54:57actually going to last?

00:54:58A diminished Spice girls

00:55:04left an opening

00:55:04for All Saints,

00:55:06but the London foursome

00:55:07had some life-changing

00:55:08news of their own.

00:55:12I'd flown from London

00:55:13to meet them

00:55:14because they were arriving

00:55:16to start their promo trip.

00:55:17And I went up to Mel and Nick

00:55:21and I said,

00:55:24how are you?

00:55:25And Nick said,

00:55:26well, we're both pregnant.

00:55:28And I was like,

00:55:28what?

00:55:29What?

00:55:30Wait, what?

00:55:33I hadn't been

00:55:34with my partner

00:55:35for very long.

00:55:36It was definitely

00:55:37a surprise.

00:55:42I mean, it was wow

00:55:43because it's like

00:55:44my sister's pregnant.

00:55:46You know what I mean?

00:55:46That kind of thing.

00:55:48I was happy for them.

00:55:50Do you know what I mean?

00:55:52It was the machine

00:55:52that wasn't happy.

00:55:55It wasn't people

00:55:56congratulating us.

00:55:58It was more like

00:55:58this look of dread

00:55:59and worry

00:56:00and then the,

00:56:01you know,

00:56:01the realisation,

00:56:02you know,

00:56:03things are going to change.

00:56:06We flew to LA

00:56:07and in LAX,

00:56:09our manager,

00:56:11he was behind us

00:56:13telling us

00:56:14to abort our babies.

00:56:17we're going to ruin

00:56:21everything.

00:56:21It was the end

00:56:23of the band,

00:56:24da, da, da, da, da.

00:56:27This was the beginning

00:56:29of the huge

00:56:29international tour.

00:56:32They were on the cusp

00:56:34of enormous success

00:56:35and management.

00:56:37Probably thought,

00:56:39oh, this is throwing

00:56:39a spanner in the works.

00:56:40I was like,

00:56:41listen,

00:56:42it's not the first time

00:56:43a band have had a baby.

00:56:49Nick and I,

00:56:50we'd been best friends

00:56:51since we were 11.

00:56:54Took pregnancy tests

00:56:55in a hotel room in Canada.

00:56:57Spent that whole night

00:56:58discussing bringing

00:57:00our kids up together.

00:57:03It was like

00:57:04one of the best nights ever.

00:57:09And it's not really

00:57:10my place to talk about it.

00:57:13But,

00:57:14unfortunately,

00:57:16it was a very

00:57:25uncomfortable situation

00:57:26because I kept

00:57:27mine she didn't.

00:57:32That was a really

00:57:33tricky part

00:57:34of my existence.

00:57:38Our existence.

00:57:39The way I'm feeling,

00:57:42yeah,

00:57:43it just don't feel right.

00:57:45Never, ever,

00:57:46have I ever felt so low.

00:57:51It's not a secret.

00:57:53It's something

00:57:54that Nick wrote about.

00:57:56They had different

00:57:58situations

00:57:58with their pregnancies.

00:58:01The path they took

00:58:02was different.

00:58:05In the long term,

00:58:06though,

00:58:06do you think a baby

00:58:07will affect the future

00:58:08of All Saints?

00:58:09No,

00:58:09I shouldn't think so.

00:58:10I mean,

00:58:11you know,

00:58:11there's four women

00:58:13in this band,

00:58:13so, you know.

00:58:14Mel was a very

00:58:15positive,

00:58:16pregnant,

00:58:18beautiful young woman.

00:58:19She was

00:58:20at Party in the Park,

00:58:21which was the huge deal.

00:58:22With her belly

00:58:23full out.

00:58:24I mean,

00:58:25she was proud of it

00:58:25and so she should be.

00:58:27I don't ever want to feel

00:58:30I can't do that thing

00:58:32Take me to the place I love

00:58:34When we did

00:58:35Party in the Park

00:58:36and I was just

00:58:37starting to show,

00:58:38I didn't really give a shit

00:58:40what I looked like

00:58:41when I was pregnant.

00:58:41I think I'd barely

00:58:42brushed my hair.

00:58:43I was just,

00:58:44by that point,

00:58:44I just didn't care anymore.

00:58:46I wasn't trying to start

00:58:46a movement for pregnant

00:58:47pop stars or anything,

00:58:49but I kind of did.

00:58:50Mel B,

00:58:50known as Scary Spice,

00:58:52and Victoria Adams,

00:58:53nicknamed Posh Spice,

00:58:54I believe to be due

00:58:55to give birth

00:58:55early next year.

00:58:57This was the band

00:58:58that gave us

00:58:58so-called girl power,

00:59:00but with two falling pregnant,

00:59:02some think young girls

00:59:03may take this

00:59:04as the message instead.

00:59:06Fine,

00:59:07but does that mean

00:59:08that their young fans

00:59:09will now want babies

00:59:10treating them

00:59:11as the latest fashion accessory?

00:59:14Oh,

00:59:15well, that's bollocks.

00:59:16It's a ridiculous thing to say

00:59:17and anyone with an ounce of brain

00:59:19would realise.

00:59:20Blame the boys!

00:59:22Get them to put their wellies on!

00:59:23We were pretty used

00:59:26to the tabloids

00:59:28just being cunts in general.

00:59:30We knew to ignore,

00:59:31move on,

00:59:32laugh.

00:59:34We had the best times

00:59:36of our life,

00:59:37but it didn't take

00:59:38much for it to go

00:59:40a little bit wonky.

00:59:42I just wish someone

00:59:43would have just

00:59:43slapped me around a bit

00:59:45and said,

00:59:45girls, come on!

00:59:46This might not last forever.

00:59:49It didn't.

00:59:49After the Spice Girls,

00:59:54we were deluged

00:59:56with girl bands.

00:59:58Some magazines,

00:59:59they wouldn't consider us

01:00:00for a front cover

01:00:01because we were

01:00:02three black girls.

01:00:03Am I going to make

01:00:04that opinion stop me?

01:00:05No.

01:00:08It was like

01:00:09Romeo and Juliet.

01:00:10Fell madly in love with him.

01:00:12The record companies

01:00:13were furious.

01:00:14It was definitely

01:00:15bad for the bands.

01:00:16One of the only decisions

01:00:19we were all happy

01:00:20to make together

01:00:21is to tell each other

01:00:22to fuck off.

01:00:22So, so, so, so skinless.

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