Komisarz UE Lahbib: „Hamas nie jest dla nas partnerem do rozmów”
W obszernym, ekskluzywnym wywiadzie dla Euronews, komisarz UE Hadja Lahbib mówi o roli bloku na Bliskim Wschodzie, a także w Ukrainie – i broni swojego kraju, Belgii.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/10/28/komisarz-ue-lahbib-hamas-nie-jest-dla-nas-partnerem-do-rozmow
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00:07a lot welcome to the euro conversation iasha iasha growa in the european
00:13commission she's in charge of promoting equality and inclusion and upholding
00:17minorities rights women's rights lgbtq rights and she's working on a new
00:23anti-racism strategy she's also responsible for crisis management and
00:28civil preparedness, and strengthening international cooperation and humanitarian diplomacy.
00:34Now, if that is not a crucial portfolio, I don't know what is.
00:38So, I'm excited to be joined by EU Commissioner Haja Labib.
00:42Welcome to the program. It's a pleasure to have you here.
00:45Thank you for having me, Stefan.
00:47So, let me start by asking you about the situation in the Middle East.
00:51You have expressed hope that work on a two-state solution can begin soon,
00:57and it shouldn't be a mere slogan.
01:00Now, today, are you more hopeful or less hopeful about this?
01:05It's clear that the ceasefire has opened a window of hope.
01:10We all saw the hostages back in Israel, embracing their beloved one.
01:16But we also saw, as well, millions of Palestinians going back in a sea of rubble, without home, without nothing, by the way.
01:32And so, the urgency is now to alleviate the suffering, to recover, and to provide humanitarian aid.
01:41And that's exactly what we are doing.
01:44This is the second phase of the humanitarian agreement.
01:49The Israeli authorities agreed to let 600 trucks per day to enter into Gaza, but we are not there yet.
01:59And so, we asked the Israeli authorities to keep their promises.
02:07The winter is coming.
02:08The situation is dramatic with population, which is starving, children and women, to the breach of the famine.
02:19There is a famine, and we want to avoid this famine to spread.
02:22And what can you do, as European Union, as European Commission, as EU, to, you know, accelerate that process?
02:31To put the pressure.
02:33And, you know, that we proposed, as a commission, to lift, partially, the association agreement.
02:40This is a tool that we have.
02:42It's a leverage.
02:43And that's why we decided, the previous Foreign Affairs Council, to let this tool on the table, to say,
02:52look, the Israelis are, the government is our first partner.
02:58We are their first trade partners.
03:01And we are the first global humanitarian donor of the Palestinian authorities.
03:08So, with this balanced approach, we need also to be sure that all rules or principles are respected.
03:18And you certainly heard about the Article 2 of the association agreement, who asked our partner to respect human rights.
03:27Now, you have been very critical towards Israel already when you were Belgian foreign minister.
03:33I'm not critical.
03:34I'm balanced and just.
03:36Okay, but you advocated a stronger European stance.
03:41On the other side, Benjamin Netanyahu has said, on this program, that Europe has become irrelevant
03:47and that some European countries' positions amount to supporting Hamas.
03:53How do we go from here?
03:55How can we improve relations with Israel?
03:58You know, I don't like to speak about improving our relations with Israel.
04:04Well, it's about improving the humanitarian law, the international humanitarian law,
04:12and to remind that there are rules to be respected, conventions, Geneva Convention,
04:19that ask that every state that is occupying a territory to be sure that the population received basic help, aid.
04:33And we are there to provide this aid.
04:36We have tons, tons of goods waiting at the border, at the Rafa crossing.
04:43And I repeat that part of the agreement is also the delivering of humanitarian aid.
04:50We want to see waves of trucks entering into Gaza.
04:54So, we are in a sea of destruction.
04:59Ninety percent of the buildings are completely destroyed.
05:05It gives you a glimpse of what is at stake.
05:08Let me go back to Netanyahu's remark that Europe is irrelevant.
05:12Did he have a point here?
05:16Where do you see Europe's footprint in the diplomacy, the ongoing diplomacy?
05:21We have been involved in the region as an honest broker for decades.
05:27For Israel, we are the first economic partners.
05:31For Palestinians, we are the first global donor, humanitarian donor.
05:36But also, we are supporting the improvement, the reform of the governance of the Palestinian authorities.
05:43And it is in the interest of the Palestinians, but also in the interest of the Israelis,
05:49to have a strong, robust governance, a Palestinian authority who is recognized, who is democratic.
05:57And we are helping them to reform.
05:59And we are ready to play our role, be it by UBAM, the EU border mission of assistance,
06:10by also training with the policemen, with UCOPs.
06:15We have a lot of programs, but we need good faith from both sides.
06:21And we are talking with all parties.
06:23And another thing is that, you know, within our European Union, we have a diversity of opinions, of histories.
06:31That is a very friendly description.
06:33Yes, this is a friendly description.
06:35But also it shows that, you know, from us, emerge a compromise,
06:42which is also the right balance between those who feel close to the Israeli governments and the others.
06:50On this point, and you were just saying that Europe speaks to everybody,
06:55I think eventually it boils down to the question,
06:59will Hamas disarm and move the ceasefire agreement forward?
07:05Do you see this happening?
07:08I mean, the whole thing looks pretty fragile right now.
07:13But will they do that?
07:14And if they don't want to do that, can Europe put the pressure on Hamas?
07:19Hamas is not an interlocutor for us.
07:23It's a terrorist group.
07:25The plan is clear.
07:28We need to see Hamas disarmed and not being part of the two-state solution.
07:35We don't want the extremists on board, from both sides, I have to say.
07:39And it was also clear when we organized, I was then Minister of Foreign Affairs,
07:45the day after conference with the Arab countries, with Saudi Arabia.
07:51And it was also on the table when France, with the EU, organized the conference
07:57that leads to the recognition of the Palestinian states from many member states within the EU.
08:04And for us, it's clear, Hamas is not part of the future.
08:09And how do you bring them to put the arms down?
08:12Because this is the...
08:13With our commitment, with our help, with our diplomatic pressure,
08:19and also our dialogue, our constant dialogue with the Arab countries.
08:26Yeah.
08:27One more question concerning the reconstruction of Gaza.
08:31You've said how the situation is.
08:34And this is typically a situation where Europe is very strong,
08:40helping with money, with expertise, humanitarian aid, etc.
08:44Now, some observers suggest that Europe may lose this spot
08:51because the Gulf states are more and more active diplomatically, financially, economically.
08:59Do you see this potentially happening,
09:02that Europe is further pushed to the sidelines here,
09:05to the benefit of the Gulf states?
09:08I don't think so.
09:10I'm rather convinced to the country.
09:12We are sitting at the table.
09:15We have our place as honest brokers,
09:18speaking with all parties, with the Gulf countries,
09:21but also with the Americans, with the Israelis.
09:24And we have this expertise.
09:27We are supporting.
09:28We are the first humanitarian donor,
09:30but also in cooperation, in development,
09:32we are really involved.
09:34And we are supporting also the Palestinian authority
09:39to reform, to become democratic countries,
09:44to organize in a near future, we hope,
09:46also universal elections and so on,
09:50and to regain also the trust of their own citizens.
09:55Let me pivot now to the war in Ukraine, if I may.
10:01I said at the beginning you are also in charge of civil preparedness.
10:06In a different sense,
10:08is the European public prepared
10:10to support Ukraine as long as it takes?
10:14This is our motto.
10:17You know, when I was Minister of Foreign Affairs,
10:20I remember we were always repeating
10:22that we will support Ukraine as long as it takes.
10:27And we are doing so, and we will continue to do so.
10:31I have traveled a lot, many times, in Ukraine.
10:35And, for instance, they are also leading by example
10:40when it comes to preparedness.
10:42And, you know, through our ECO system,
10:46DG ECO, which is under my remits,
10:48this is the largest operation ever,
10:52led by our services,
10:55transporting more than 150,000 items,
11:00mainly generators, to help Ukraine,
11:05a country which is targeted
11:07in its civilian infrastructures
11:10in blatant violation
11:12of international humanitarian law, again.
11:15Can you talk to very concrete aspects
11:17of EU humanitarian aid?
11:20And is the situation possible, conceivable,
11:24that Europe would take in more refugees
11:27if the situation on the ground requires it?
11:31We already welcomed millions of refugees
11:36with a specific status allowing them to work
11:39and to be really fully integrated in our societies.
11:44And it was, it is a success.
11:47Now, when it comes to our concrete support,
11:50you know, when I was traveling there the last winter,
11:55I remember visiting schools, building in a shelter.
11:59You know, it's the only way to ensure education
12:05for Ukrainian children,
12:07but also protection of the elderly
12:09and the people with disabilities.
12:12As you mentioned, I'm also responsible for equality
12:15and to ensure that we are not leaving no one behind,
12:20and especially the most fragile in Ukraine.
12:23The last EU summit just signed off
12:25on the 19 sanctions package against Russia
12:29and continue to stand with Ukraine.
12:32At the same time, the question of frozen assets,
12:36the loan for Ukraine,
12:38has been kicked down the road into the next month.
12:43What message does this send to Ukraine and to Ukrainians?
12:48And Belgium played an active role here in this,
12:52blocking the loan for now.
12:54We are not blocking the loans.
12:56And for two years now,
12:59we are also giving to Ukrainians the profits,
13:06the interest of these loans that are blocked,
13:10that are frozen.
13:11But these loans, you know, need to be,
13:14it's the first in our history.
13:17We don't have an example to follow.
13:21And it needs to be secured in a legal point of view.
13:25That's the only thing.
13:26That's the only point.
13:28And the message that we are conveying to the Ukrainians
13:34is that we are by your side, always.
13:38We will help you to defend your borders
13:41because your borders is our borders.
13:43And we don't want to see further the Russians graphing territories,
13:50Ukrainian territories.
13:51We are well aware,
13:52and we are constantly repeating,
13:54that their security is our security.
13:56So, we are with them.
13:59We are going to also reinforce our own security.
14:04But we just need to time.
14:07I think it's a question of time.
14:09On that point, we've seen Russian hybrid attacks on Europe as well,
14:16cyber attacks, drone incursions, and other operations.
14:20Does Europe take this hybrid war seriously enough?
14:23Very seriously.
14:25And that's why, a couple of months ago,
14:27I presented the preparedness strategy,
14:30which is based on all hazards,
14:33all kinds of threats.
14:35Because today's threats are not yesterday's threats.
14:38Yesterday, it was mainly wildfires, floods, natural disasters.
14:43But today, we see drones violating our airspace.
14:48It happened even here, in Belgium, in Denmark, in Poland, in Estonia.
14:56And we saw the hybrid threats, misinformation, disinformation campaign,
15:03during the Moldovan elections,
15:05with 14 million attempts to disturb a cyber attack,
15:14to influence the results of the election.
15:17Fortunately, it was unsuccessful.
15:20But it means that we are facing a multiplication of threats.
15:26So, in short, is Europe ready for war?
15:31We are preparing.
15:33We are prepared, every day, for everything.
15:36Okay.
15:38And let me go back to the Belgian position on the frozen assets.
15:42I want to explain.
15:43I know that you are skeptical.
15:45I saw your face.
15:46I just want to explain to you.
15:48War is not, you know, a char or a soldier knocking at your door saying,
15:52oh, look, I'm going to invade you.
15:54No, it is not a reality.
15:56Today's reality is a virus, a chemical attack,
16:01a nuclear incident that is maybe provoked by power outages.
16:08You know, all these things are very subtile.
16:11So, we need to have a good understanding of today's threat.
16:15Now, on Belgium and the frozen assets.
16:17I want to come back to this.
16:19What message does the Belgian position send to the Ukrainians right now?
16:25The fact is that EuroClear is based in Belgium.
16:29It's an international platform.
16:32And the message is clear.
16:35We are with the Ukrainians, and we will support them in their efforts of war.
16:42But we need time.
16:43We need to secure the legal aspect to be sure that Belgium is not going to be brought in front of a court of justice later on.
16:56That's it.
16:56So, the Belgian prime minister has repeatedly said he fears a retribution from Russia, legal problems.
17:06How serious is that, especially in a context of war?
17:11And are the others immune to that argument?
17:15Why is there still no agreement on this?
17:18Why is it so difficult to sort of spread the risk?
17:22Because it is a first in our history that we are going to take the assets that are blocked following an invasion, a war, an unfair one.
17:38And so, we don't have examples to follow, and it needs to be secured legally.
17:47That's it.
17:48I'm going to ask you one last question.
17:50I want to bring up a very particular threat to our societies, and I know that you are very concerned about that,
17:58and that is regression, intolerance, and the demonization of dissenters.
18:05Racism, anti-Semitism, and sexism are on the rise.
18:10You are in charge of equality and inclusion.
18:13How do you promote this these days?
18:16With good sense.
18:17You know, I like figures, and obviously equality is also in the interest of our economies, of our competitiveness.
18:31We need to have all the skills, the potential skills, on board.
18:36If we decide that half of the humanity, women, for instance, cannot have a complete and full career to deploy all their talents,
18:51that they are reframed with kids, with, you know, culture impediment, and also that we don't accept the LGBTIQ plus people, and so on.
19:07This is an attempt also to our competitiveness, this is refraining ourselves, and, you know, violence has a cost.
19:17It costs 290 billion a year for the entire European Union.
19:25We all pay the price of this violence.
19:27Exclusion has also a price.
19:30This is 390 billion a year.
19:32So, if we want to spare money in this period of financial crisis, we need also to fight against exclusion, discrimination, and to have all the skills on board.
19:49All right. EU Commissioner Hadj Al-Abib. Fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
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