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00:00Let's talk a little bit about this new announcement where you're going to increase your Bitcoin holdings beyond the initial amount that you had stated back during the April launch.
00:08This will make you the third largest corporate holder of Bitcoin after Strategy and Mara.
00:13Is there a long-term strategy here like to take over Strategy's role as the biggest holder or maybe even the second biggest holder and push Mara out of the way?
00:21Of course. I mean, listen, I think the capital markets will get to know me as many things, one of which is a competitor.
00:27I'm never going to sit up here and say I want to be second. So I think us at 21, we have a lot of confidence that we can do pretty much anything.
00:35The board, if you think about, consists of myself, Tether and SoftBank.
00:39That's a lot of access to capital, a lot of technological experience, a lot of Bitcoin experience.
00:44So we're confident. First step is getting approved.
00:46But the notion that we've already been able to accumulate over 43,000 Bitcoin with an average price of just over 87,000.
00:54So we now own over $5 billion of Bitcoin and we have an unrealized gain of already over $1.3 billion.
01:01So a pretty small team and it's a pretty young company that's already made over a billion bucks.
01:05So a lot of progress so far. And I think it's just the beginning.
01:08And this is your main business. You're introducing a performance metric as well called BPS, Bitcoin per share.
01:14Can you just briefly explain that?
01:15Yes. I mean, it's obviously a rip on earnings per share.
01:18But listen, we're a Bitcoin company all the way to our core. That's even how we measure our performance.
01:24In my opinion, as a Bitcoiner, measuring your performance in dollars is not that impressive.
01:29My coffee's gone up in dollar terms. This chair has gone up in dollar terms.
01:33So is the S&P. So is the Mag-7. So is Bitcoin.
01:35Everything goes up in dollar terms because fiat continues to get debased.
01:39So what we want to measure ourself in is Bitcoin.
01:42Bitcoin is the new hurdle rate. Can you be performance in Bitcoin terms?
01:45And the message I want to give to our existing shareholders and future shareholders is we want our shareholders to get wealthier in Bitcoin terms.
01:53And so instead of measuring earnings per shares in dollars, we want to measure in Bitcoin.
01:57Can we grow the Bitcoin per share that you're exposed to as a shareholder of the business?
02:02That's why we created the metric.
02:03What's the end game for you?
02:05Is it just to buy as much Bitcoin as you can and hold it for as long as possible and never sell it?
02:10That's one of the goals.
02:11Yes. But I think what makes us different than a lot of these other businesses is we plan to build Bitcoin products as well.
02:18I mean, the founding group is Tether and myself.
02:21I founded and Lead Strike is one of the bigger Bitcoin financial services firms in the world.
02:25Tether, obviously, is one of the most impressive companies in the history of humanity, but specifically in building massive cash flows within the space.
02:31So Paolo and I, before we were CEOs, we were engineers.
02:34We built a lot of products.
02:36And so we plan to not only acquire as much Bitcoin as possible, raising capital and all sorts of deep capital pools, but also build products, build technology, build tools.
02:44I think when people eventually think of 21, it's are they a competitor to Coinbase?
02:49Are they a competitor to strategy?
02:50For us, why not both?
02:51We think we have that potential.
02:53Do you envision a future where Bitcoin treasury companies such as Strategy, Mara and you guys end up buying so much Bitcoin that there really isn't actually much left out there on the open market for people to trade?
03:08After all, it is a fixed number of Bitcoin.
03:11So no more will be created once it reaches that number.
03:14Right.
03:15You know what's fascinating about the asset, and it's not intuitive because it's so rare, is that to your point, it is definitively scarce.
03:21So if everyone in the world wanted an iPhone, Apple could make more.
03:26If everyone in the world wanted a McDonald's cheeseburger, McDonald's could make more.
03:30The fact that Bitcoin cannot increase its supply means the new supply comes from the market.
03:36If you want more Bitcoin, you don't go to the Bitcoin factory to get one.
03:39You have to go up in price.
03:41Is there enough Bitcoin for me at $120,000?
03:43No.
03:43Okay, $130,000, $140,000, $150,000.
03:46So I tell you what, there's always Bitcoin available.
03:48It just depends on what you're willing to pay for it.
03:50And so what I think will happen is this price will continue to discover higher because Bitcoin is the scarcest thing.
03:57It's inelastic to the amount of demand that searches for it.
03:59So the amount of buying power that we're seeing from the capital markets, from the ETFs, and potentially from nation states like the United States,
04:07I think they'll find the supply they're looking for.
04:09They're just going to have to go get it at a higher price.
04:11Would you expand to other digital coins, for instance, become a treasury company for Ether or Solano or something else?
04:18Absolutely not.
04:19And I'll tell you guys why.
04:20I made you laugh.
04:21Yeah, because you guys are all maxis.
04:23Like you talk to somebody who has an Ether treasury company and they'd say the same thing about Bitcoin.
04:27Yeah.
04:27You can't mix the two ever?
04:29Well, a little history lesson.
04:30The term maxi was actually invented by Vitalik Buterin.
04:33It was a diss.
04:34It was slander.
04:34You know, I now take it as a compliment, but to be clear, I don't self-prescribe that.
04:41Little background on my opinion, okay?
04:44Us humans own a little over $900 trillion worth of stuff.
04:48Currencies, sovereign debt, real estate, precious metals, fine art, all of the things that we collectively own as a species.
04:54About half of that, so call it $400 to $500 trillion worth of it, we're using to save money, right?
05:00You own the $10 million art painting not to put on your wall so your toddler can throw spaghetti at it and ruin it.
05:06You own it because you want to sell it for $11 million in the future.
05:09You own the real estate not to consume it because you're living in it, but because you're trying to save and build a real estate portfolio.
05:14So the amount of wealth humans have created that they want to bring with them tomorrow and save into the future is about $400 to $500 trillion.
05:22To me, that's what Bitcoin's going after.
05:24It's that pristine store of value.
05:26It's that pure money, right?
05:27What is Ethereum?
05:29What is Dogecoin?
05:29What is Solana?
05:31To me, I don't know, at best, a technology?
05:33Are these things going after Apple, Amazon?
05:37If they are, let's go out and give Ethereum credit that I don't think it deserves and say it's going to achieve what Amazon has achieved.
05:44Okay, $2 trillion, $3 trillion worth of value to society.
05:48Reasonable, nice, a new cool tech stock.
05:50And that's if they go on to achieve that.
05:52If Bitcoin goes on to achieve a small fraction of the $400 to $500 trillion that humans are looking to bring with them tomorrow, we're talking about tens of trillions of dollars of appreciation.
06:01So it's in orders of magnitude, larger problem Bitcoin's going after.
06:05It's in orders of magnitude sound or bedrock to build a treasury.
06:08I do not want to build a treasury on potentially the next Amazon.
06:11I want to build a treasury on the new gold, on the new sovereign debt, on the new currency, on the new dollar.
06:18So that, for me, our shareholders should know, I will never own another asset outside Bitcoin.
06:24So Bitcoin purist or Maxi, as Tim just reminded us.
06:27Jack, you call yourself the first ever Bitcoin native company that expects to be publicly listed.
06:32Any thoughts on what stock exchange?
06:34Would it be NYSE?
06:35Would it be NASDAQ?
06:36Could it even be, let's say, the Texas Stock Exchange, which will begin listings at the end of 2026?
06:43We want to do what's best for Bitcoin and our shareholders.
06:46We're open to all relationships that help us achieve that.
06:49That's our banking partners.
06:50That's the exchanges.
06:51I mean, for us, it's about being performant in Bitcoin terms and serving the Bitcoin network and growing alongside of it.
06:58And, yeah, for us being a Bitcoin native business, again, we didn't pivot from an old business model.
07:03We aren't a company that needs a new direction.
07:06We are Bitcoiners.
07:07We've been in this space for over a decade.
07:08And so we're native to our metrics, to our core, to our operating business.
07:11And that's what we mean.
07:12And whatever partners along the way, exchanges, banks that want to support us on our mission, I'm happy to work with them.
07:18Jack, still a lot of skeptics out there who might watch this and say, wait a second, is the point of Bitcoin just for the people who have it now to get wealthier and wealthier?
07:26The largest holders of Marathon, of you guys, and of strategy.
07:31Convince them that there is a use case beyond just buying and holding, that this is a useful technology.
07:36Well, I think the use case for Bitcoin from the highest level possible is I've created value and I want to keep it.
07:45That's it.
07:46I got a chuckle out of you.
07:47That's true.
07:48I got up out of bed.
07:50I sacrificed.
07:51I worked.
07:51I commuted.
07:52I did tasks.
07:53I created products.
07:54I created value for those around me.
07:56I want to keep that value.
07:58But even though it's called a cryptocurrency, it's not used widespread as a currency.
08:02It's used as something that will accumulate or that people think will accumulate in value.
08:06Yes, I think the definitions of currency and money and how we think of medium of exchange to our value, I think it gets too complicated.
08:12And sometimes Bitcoin is so simple that people don't believe it can be that simple.
08:16The reality is money is what you acquire in exchange for your effort, your time, your energy.
08:21It's our time and energy in an abstracted form.
08:23And I exchange my work hours for it so that I can later get the stuff I need in my life.
08:28I want to go to Whole Foods and get a steak.
08:29I want to go on vacation.
08:30I need to pay rent.
08:31That's what money is for, is to allow me to create value and take it with me tomorrow.
08:34And that's the use case.
08:35And today, it's increasingly difficult to achieve that.
08:38I can't save it in dollars.
08:39We all know that.
08:40Okay, you're going to force me to understand Japanese central bank monetary policy.
08:44You're going to force me to understand what tech stocks to pick.
08:46No, how about something that's definitively scarce, no one can inflate.
08:50I can store for free.
08:51I can move cheaply.
08:52And that, I can put it in my brain.
08:56And that's the use case.
08:57And we all have that use case.
08:58Nation, state, corporations, families, individuals.
09:01Simply put, I think everyone can find value in a technology that is open source and solve that for everybody.
09:08And so we're going to need to createwow to use.
09:12For us all, give us more opportunity.
09:13Best protection.
09:14We'll be Verb pocketed with nobody else.
09:15And it'll be there.
09:16Be it.
09:17Be it.
09:18There all is common in it and the act of planning, new school.
09:20So one, if we could work against your future.
09:20As you can develop a relationship.
09:21You're getting raped by人.
09:22Financial.
09:23So the right.
09:24We're back.
09:25But there's no way to go.
09:26We're going to create a relationship.
09:27Yeah, you're on the side.
09:28Also, it keeps on learning and racing tips.
09:30This is the issue you can keep on energy.
09:32It's going to be here.
09:33So the last time, you guys are fighting usald IXallah.
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