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00:00of Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked.
00:02I'm Ed Gamble and this is the official visualized companion podcast
00:05where we'll be picking apart every twist, turn and betrayal from episode 6.
00:09Quick warning, if you haven't watched yet, this podcast will be packed with spoilers.
00:14So go and catch up on iPlayer, then come back and join us.
00:17Here's what we have coming up.
00:19The big dog faithful himself, Stephen Fry, will be here in the studio
00:22to break down his time in the castle.
00:24Mark Bonner will be joining me to discuss that dramatic double deadlock.
00:28We'll also hear from Joe Wilkinson after he left the game
00:31and bring you the exclusive moment I reveal to them all who the traitors are.
00:35And helping me solve the mystery of what on earth we've just seen,
00:38it's Jazz from Series 2.
00:40Yes, Jazzatha Christie will be here.
00:47Welcome, Jazz.
00:48Look, what a night.
00:50What a night.
00:50We've lost three more faithful, suspicions are climbing
00:53and the traitors are, to quote Celia, playing a very clever game.
00:57They're unbelievable.
00:58I don't know how they're doing so well.
01:01The faithfuls should be able to ring someone up
01:04just so that that person just answers and gives them a helping hand,
01:08just a bit of a steer in the right direction.
01:10See, I love watching them flail.
01:11I'll be honest.
01:13I think I'm a traitor at heart.
01:15Look, we've got a lot to get through tonight
01:16because we need to unpack the chessboard mission,
01:19Nick and Joe Marler's sabotage of that mission,
01:22and this is exciting for you, Jazz, and for me.
01:24Sir Stephen Fry will be joining us on the sofa in just a minute.
01:28Oh, my days.
01:29Let's rewind to Scotland,
01:30where I caught up with the moments after his dramatic exit from the castle
01:33and I revealed exactly who the traitors are.
01:41Gamble, how nice to see you.
01:42Welcome.
01:43Welcome to Uncloat.
01:44Let's grab a seat.
01:46Oh, gracious.
01:47Freedom.
01:47Welcome to Uncloat, Stephen.
01:51Thank you, Ed.
01:52It's nice to be here, in a way.
01:53Yeah, sorry it's under banishment circumstances.
01:56How are you feeling post-banishment?
01:58I'm fine.
01:59It was inevitable.
02:01As the footage will show, I was expecting it.
02:04Let's talk about this big dog theory.
02:07Yes.
02:07Because that was the theory that it could be you,
02:10it could be Jonathan,
02:11because Claudia would pick one of these big dog slash national traitors.
02:14If by that you mean sort of household name status or whatever else,
02:19it's all a bit embarrassing,
02:20but, yeah, we sort of know what's meant.
02:23In that case, there's only Jonathan and Alan left, really,
02:27so it's possible they're traitors.
02:29I hadn't really thought either of them were,
02:31but I lost all faith in whatever judgment I thought I had anyway.
02:38You know what's about to happen now?
02:39I do.
02:40You're about to find out who the traitors are.
02:42I am.
02:43We're going to hold off slightly.
02:44I'm going to tease you a little bit longer,
02:45because I want to ask you who you think the traitors are.
02:48Prepare to scoff loudly.
02:51I'm going to say Joe Marler,
02:54David Ola Segoe,
02:56and Cat Burns.
02:58Okay.
02:59Why Joe Marler?
03:00You know, at first he presented as quite shy and silent,
03:04but with the odd, amazingly, surprisingly good joke.
03:07But he's become so...
03:09And he started to have moments in the roundtables
03:15where he really steers and pushes and makes things known.
03:21Cat, I just suspect, because she keeps so quietly in the background.
03:25And David, because he's so smart, so in control,
03:31and I can see him just coolly working out the right person to murder.
03:36Okay.
03:37The moment's here, Stephen.
03:38No!
03:39Here we go.
03:40I'm going to pass you the scroll.
03:42One at a time.
03:43Here we go.
03:43All right.
03:49Break the seal.
03:50Jonath.
03:57F-F-S.
04:00I mean...
04:03Oh, he played a blinder.
04:05We knew he was a superfan.
04:07We knew he knew better than any of us how the game works.
04:12But he convinced me he wanted to be a faithful
04:15and then be re-quoted, as he put it.
04:18Can I unfold the next one?
04:22You can unfold.
04:27Yes!
04:27Cat!
04:28I knew it!
04:30I knew it!
04:31I am so pleased about that.
04:33I really am.
04:35And I got it for a good reason, as well as an instinct,
04:38which was the sleepiness.
04:39Yeah.
04:40Oh, wow, that's something.
04:42And you're one of the very few so far.
04:44Yeah, she's got a free pass.
04:46Every time her name comes up, oh, I don't think it's Cat.
04:48Oh, we...
04:50This time.
04:54Oh.
04:59Alan.
05:01What will Paloma say?
05:05Wow, does he just want to end the relationship?
05:09Alan Carr.
05:10Oh, I don't believe that.
05:18Two big dogs and one small cat.
05:24Wow.
05:28And Stephen is with us now.
05:30Welcome to Uncloaked.
05:37We're delighted to have you here.
05:38Hello, Jazz.
05:39Nice to see you.
05:40Lovely to see you.
05:41It's the big dog.
05:42Have you ever been called a big dog before?
05:43I don't think I ever have.
05:44And from now on, I'm happy to accept that that's what I am,
05:48whether it's a Great Dane or some smelly mongrel with maine.
05:52I'm not sure.
05:53What made you sign up for the show in the first place, Stephen?
05:56Watching it.
05:57I watched the second series.
05:59And I was just immediately hooked by the human drama of it.
06:03So when, amazingly, the phone rang, I found myself saying yes.
06:10I've been in television for 40 years.
06:14But I don't think I've ever done anything that's had such an instant.
06:17Every building site and bus shelter I go on, every taxi ride,
06:20every shop I go into, people are saying, oh, so who are you going to vote off?
06:27Who are you going to banish, Stephen?
06:29Or they're going to say, can't you see that it's Alan?
06:32And surely you can see that it's Alan?
06:33I said, no, I couldn't.
06:35And, you know, the public consciousness has been truly excited by this.
06:41Of all the places that you spend time, Stephen,
06:43I wouldn't expect you to shout out building sites and bus shelters first.
06:47You walk past them, you know.
06:52Did the reality of being in there, did it differ from what you were expecting?
06:57Yes, you can't really prepare yourself for it, can you?
07:00So it's an extraordinary feeling.
07:02I think you said a one-liner right in the first episode,
07:05which I just thought it described the whole Trader's experience so perfectly.
07:09You went, so we're about to enter a blizzard of horror.
07:12And I was just thinking that is exactly what you're about to enter.
07:16Well, this is why on the first episode of Uncloaked,
07:18there were a few things you said in that initial episode
07:20that you reminded me of some teenage goths I used to hang out with.
07:24It was a blizzard of horror, and then it was looking at all of the portraits
07:30and everyone was really excited.
07:32And you said, well, they'll be covered in red crosses soon.
07:38Let's talk about the missions.
07:39How did you find doing the missions?
07:40Did you have any particular favourites?
07:42I have been worried that they would all be a bit like the Trojan horse
07:45and involve a huge amount of effort, because it was a bit knackering.
07:48Although I was stupidly proud of the fact that I was next to a loosehead prop
07:54who played for England at rugby football, and he was as exhausted as I was.
07:59And his whole job as a loosehead prop is to do that, is to push and go like that
08:05and grab people's testicles and all the other things that rugby players do.
08:09And kindly, he didn't do that to me.
08:12But I didn't want all of them to be too physical.
08:16Yeah, it's traitorous behaviour, grabbing someone's nuts during a mission.
08:20You really threw yourself into the missions.
08:22I did, yeah.
08:23There's that moment where Claudia suddenly gets worried.
08:25He's like, oh no, Stephen Fry's just dipping his head under the water,
08:28and you're just like shoving your head right in the water.
08:30It was fantastic.
08:32Yes, I kind of surprised myself, really,
08:34because I didn't really like physical challenges very much as a rule.
08:37At school, I'd do anything.
08:38I'd give myself asthma attacks to get out of doing any sport or anything like it.
08:44We've just watched the chess mission.
08:45Now, there was quite a lot going on in this mission
08:48with last-minute team changes and acts of sabotage.
08:50That's right, and Nick had a most peculiar interchange with Joe Marley.
08:54Joe, that's right, swapping.
08:56And I couldn't quite understand that.
08:59It was clear that Nick was presenting as someone
09:01who was fiercely trying to trap a traitor somehow by doing this,
09:05but I couldn't quite see his working in it.
09:07You came under a little bit of suspicion in the team swap thing there, Stephen,
09:11as well, for seeming a little bit grumpy about having to swap things in.
09:13I was grumpy.
09:15I was grumpy.
09:17I was so convinced I was going to be murdered that night.
09:20I don't know why.
09:21I just had this feeling that my time was up.
09:24I'm not grumpy exactly, but I was like, yeah, a bit put out.
09:29Reflecting on your experience now, Stephen,
09:31if you had to choose again, would you ever choose to be a traitor?
09:34I'd like to see if I could do it.
09:36I suppose that's one of the things about traitors,
09:39and I'm sure many viewers watching would love to participate,
09:42not because they want to be famous on television,
09:45but because they want to see if they couldn't do it.
09:47I think that's the key to the game,
09:48that people just want to play the game, don't they?
09:50Yeah, they really want to.
09:51Assuming it was the first thing you checked when you left the castle,
09:54did you find out how many deaths there were
09:56in Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet combined?
09:58I forgot to check, actually.
10:00I'm still going through Tybalt, Mercutio, Paris.
10:05I think you said 13.
10:06Oh, 13, that's right.
10:06When you were in there.
10:07You're right, 13, yes.
10:08It's actually 14.
10:0914!
10:10It's 14, so it's six in Romeo and Juliet and eight in Hamlet, apparently.
10:15And if you ask me any follow-up questions,
10:17I have nothing to give you.
10:19Now, still to come, we'll hear from poor, murdered Joe Wilkinson.
10:23But before that, Mark will be joining me in the studio,
10:25fresh from that dramatic double deadlock.
10:27Here's the moment I caught up with him in the Highlands
10:29to tell him face-to-face who those pesky traitors are.
10:38Come in.
10:39Welcome to Unclothed.
10:40Thank you, Ed.
10:41Grab a seat.
10:41Thanks for joining us.
10:43Merci.
10:46Thanks so much for joining us.
10:47Sorry it's in, you know, banishment circumstances.
10:50Well, you know, hey-ho, that's the game.
10:53As an actor, do you think that gives you an advantage in the game?
10:57No.
10:58I think there was a few people that thought that.
11:01I think that it actually might be a disadvantage.
11:05It's not about how good an actor you are or what kind of actor you are.
11:10It's about the person you are.
11:11Yeah.
11:12And your ability to, you know, maintain a huge amount of subterfuge, you know.
11:19And I just didn't, I didn't want to do it and I didn't think I could or would be very good at it.
11:25And in terms of subterfuge, you sort of weren't even keeping the fact you were looking at other people to yourself.
11:30Thinking back on that, I don't know.
11:35I just, I wanted to see everybody's face.
11:38But yeah, in hindsight, I should have done that more subtly.
11:42I think it was the funeral in particular when I saw you.
11:45I know, I know.
11:46Engine away from people and going.
11:48And then the full head like that.
11:51I know.
11:51And I was just thinking, Mark, can you not just look sideways?
11:54Just do that with your eyes.
11:56You're going to get the full head tilt like an owl.
11:58I know, that was a bit, not performative, but I thought it would, maybe somewhere in the back of my head,
12:04I thought it would do me good, you know, for people to know that I'm looking, you know.
12:09I'm a faithful and I'm looking at you.
12:11Trying to play the game.
12:12I know.
12:13This is a big moment.
12:14I know.
12:15You're going to find out who the traitors are.
12:17Before I do reveal it to you, I'm going to ask you who you think they are first.
12:21Last night, I thought possibly Joe Marla, Nick, possibly Alan, and one of either Stephen or Jonathan.
12:32Talk us through those then.
12:34So Joe Marla.
12:36He is so inscrutable.
12:38Whether he is joking or not, you can never quite tell.
12:44And Nick was another one, you thought?
12:45He's very careful with what he says and the way that he says it.
12:50He's been in and out of my kind of peripheral vision as far as traitors are concerned, as has Alan.
12:57I find Alan, Alan and Stephen have a very good, a very strong sort of persona.
13:05That persona kind of would be a very effective shield to stop people getting in.
13:12And Jonathan, for the kind of same reason, Jonathan is very kind of languid.
13:18It's just anything.
13:19It's anything we can possibly grab to hang our hats on.
13:25So who are your definite faithfuls?
13:27I would probably say Joe.
13:29I'd probably say David.
13:32I'd probably say Kat.
13:35Well, this is the moment, Mark.
13:37You're going to find out.
13:39I can't believe it.
13:40I'm so nervous.
13:41We'll go one by one.
13:42OK.
13:42Here we go.
13:43OK.
13:44I knew it.
13:57Let's read the name out for us.
13:59Jonathan fucking Ross.
14:06Right.
14:07Wow.
14:08Well played, man.
14:09Well played, though.
14:10He's really good at it.
14:11Yeah, I'm trying to see who else is in that thought out with him.
14:15Can I look now?
14:28That was that.
14:29Yeah.
14:31Man, she's good.
14:33It's Kat, by the way.
14:35Just in case she didn't know.
14:36Because when you said that, when you said, I'd like to hear from Kat, I was like, hello.
14:45You might be on to her here.
14:46Oh, no, I wasn't.
14:47I was at, no, I wasn't.
14:49I actually, well, I said just, just now I thought she was 100% faithful.
14:53She's one of your definite faithfuls, yeah.
14:56This is exhausting.
14:57It's Alan.
15:12I've got a fair way about you.
15:17Well played, though.
15:18Do you know what?
15:19On our walk out from the Traitor Choice table, I was beside him.
15:24And I glanced at him, and he was like that.
15:28And I thought, oh.
15:30And I've never mentioned it again.
15:35Oh, man.
15:36And Mark joins us now.
15:44Welcome, Mark.
15:46Watching that back, I don't think I've got as much joy out of a Traitor reveal so far this series.
15:51I am loving every single second of that.
15:53Oh, my God.
15:53And I think it's how invested you are and the intensity that you put into the game.
15:59Yeah.
15:59And it's maintained when you found out who the Traitors were.
16:02Yeah.
16:02If I've learned anything from doing this, it's that I can't really sit back and be cool.
16:09I am kind of like a bunny or a horse on heat.
16:13Not a horse on heat.
16:15Whatever.
16:15I'm just kind of giddy-ing up for it.
16:18An monstrous mare.
16:19Yeah.
16:19It was obviously a very stressful final roundtable for you.
16:23Joe Marla came at you.
16:24Alan challenged you on wanting to be a faithful.
16:27Yes.
16:28And then it went to this deadlock situation.
16:30For the first time in UK Traitors history.
16:33Yes.
16:33Before we talk about that dramatic moment, we're just going to remind ourselves of what happened.
16:39David and Mark, whoever receives the shield will be protected from tonight's banishing.
16:49So, to both of you then, please open the chest in front of you.
16:53In five, four, three, two, one.
17:13Well done, man.
17:14I mean, it's obviously a huge moment in Traitors history and incredible to be part of that moment.
17:20Yeah.
17:20But a gutting way to go.
17:21Yeah.
17:22Really, really.
17:23I mean, to go by chance is...
17:25Yeah.
17:25I mean, although it was a traitor as far as...
17:27It was the gods.
17:28It was the...
17:29Yes, it was the gods.
17:30What was the tension like in that room, Stephen?
17:32Oh, really?
17:33You could cut it with a black and decker tension cutter.
17:35It was extraordinarily tense.
17:39And so people will be watching and they think, oh, for heaven's sake, you're grown-ups.
17:42It's a game.
17:43What on earth?
17:44You looked as if, you know, you were about to face a firing squad.
17:47I really did.
17:47Yeah, that is the feeling you get in there.
17:50When people are gunning for you, especially, it feels personal.
17:54It feels personal.
17:55It's hard not to take things personally in that game.
17:58Yeah.
17:58And you think, oh, it's just a game, you know, but you naturally will do.
18:01Like, as you mentioned before with Joe, you know, bringing your name up because...
18:05And he's saying that because you're an actor, you'd be a great traitor.
18:08But at the same time, that's someone that you're naturally close with.
18:11Yeah.
18:11And you're going to take that personally.
18:13But I feel like Joe is playing it perfectly at the moment.
18:17Joe Marlott was watching Line of Duty on his time off.
18:21Do you think that had a bad effect on his opinion of you?
18:24Yes.
18:25That would have done.
18:26He has.
18:26He said in the group chat as much.
18:28You know, he said, sorry, mate.
18:30I think I was just watching, confusing you with Dryden too much.
18:34I was like, and I said that to him when we were sitting on the bench in the garden.
18:37I said, whatever you do, don't confuse me with Dryden.
18:39Yeah.
18:40You know, but he did.
18:41It's time now to hear from our latest murdered player, Joe Wilkinson.
18:46He couldn't be here today, but I caught up with him right after he was murdered
18:48to hear his first reactions and to reveal who the traitors are.
18:56Oh, dear.
18:58He's been murdered.
19:00Hello.
19:00He's been well.
19:01You too.
19:02Grab a seat.
19:03Thanks for coming.
19:04Oh, well, yeah, I too contractually a blind.
19:09Welcome to Uncloak, Joe.
19:11Cheers, Ed.
19:11Look, it's great to have you here.
19:13Sorry that you've been murdered.
19:14That's all right.
19:14Don't worry about it.
19:15Joe Marlott, you seem to develop quite a friendship with him in there.
19:19I got really lucky having Joe in there because he's so much fun and such a lovely man.
19:24But he kept going to me, if you are a traitor, I'm going to be so hurt.
19:30And I'm like, well, if I am, I can't go, sorry, guys, I'm going to have to tell Joe.
19:35Do you think being a comedian in the game makes it easier or harder?
19:41I just think we're slightly bigger prats.
19:46That's all.
19:47I was really looking forward to, I think it really made me laugh when people started to read into what I was doing because I wasn't doing anything.
19:56When I would throw up, like, I'd throw up an opinion, I'd go, I was expecting, like, a real, like, shock as I'd go, okay, gather round.
20:13I've got a strong suspicion it's Jonathan Ross for this reason.
20:17And I thought everyone would be like, but what would happen?
20:19People would go, all right, anyway, how's your mum?
20:23How's your mum?
20:23Is she all right?
20:24Like, like, nothing went in.
20:27I'd affected nothing for days upon days upon days.
20:32Why is that, do you think?
20:33Well, Kat Burns said that I spoke like every letter was lowercase.
20:42And so it just doesn't have any impact.
20:46Yeah.
20:46And she's spot on.
20:47She said, you just don't have any impact.
20:50Were you expecting to have as much impact as Sir Stephen Fry?
20:53Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put myself in the upper echelons of Stephen Fry, but I thought people would absorb some, something.
21:04Yeah, but when Stephen Fry makes a speech and then you say something, you essentially seem like a man in a betting shop.
21:08Well, the only reason I'm not in a betting shop is because I'm here.
21:13You're about to find out who the traitors are.
21:19You don't have to tell me.
21:21Do you know, I'm going to wait for the telly show.
21:26Before I show you, I do want to know your theories as to who the traitors are.
21:30I think it's Jonathan.
21:32Why Jonathan?
21:34Because I just think he would have been quite a loud voice in the turret.
21:42I think Kat, only because the one of the last things we talked about is thinking about the last person you think.
21:51So I think Kat, and I'm really hoping this one's true.
21:55I really hope it's senior.
21:56Yeah.
21:57Because she kept saying, these traitors are very clever.
22:01They're very, very clever.
22:03And that would her, basically her saying, I'm very, very clever.
22:08Who are your definite faithfuls, Joe?
22:10Joe Marler.
22:12Nick.
22:14Lucy.
22:16And Kate Garraway.
22:18Okay.
22:20There's a name per fold.
22:21We'll do them one by one.
22:22Sure.
22:28Jonathan, Kat and Alan.
22:33Yeah.
22:34You've just gone through them all.
22:35Yeah.
22:36You've taken them in.
22:37Yeah.
22:37You were correct about Jonathan.
22:39Mm-hmm.
22:40You were correct about Kat.
22:41Mm-hmm.
22:42And who was the last one there for me?
22:44It was Alan.
22:45So you didn't mention Alan as the traitor, but you didn't have him down as a definite faithful either.
22:51Uh, no.
22:53The one thing I didn't think was, I think Alan is the only one I'm like, he's playing an amazing game.
23:01Yeah, fair enough.
23:03You've got two out of three.
23:04It's very impressive.
23:05Yeah, it is.
23:06If only.
23:06It is, yes.
23:07If only anyone listened to you at the round table.
23:09Exactly.
23:10If I didn't speak in lowercase, this would have been, this would have been done in a couple of days.
23:16Could have all had a couple of weeks off.
23:22Not the most dramatic traitor reveal we've done all series, I've got to say.
23:26Very funny.
23:27But everyone seemed very affected by Joe's murder.
23:30How big a loss was Joe to the group, do you think?
23:32There were, those who were very close, Joe liked him and they were very close.
23:36They had the Joe-mans, we call it here.
23:38The Joe-mans.
23:38Yeah, they were very close.
23:39I think Nick and he were very fond of each other too.
23:42And they were a bit kind of angry at the traitor.
23:46Sometimes you do feel angry about the traitor's choice, don't you?
23:49Yeah, yeah.
23:49Why are that is, they are mean.
23:52Look, we're very sad that Joe couldn't be with us today.
23:55I mean, I'm acting as if he's actually been murdered.
23:58He just couldn't make it schedule-wise.
24:00But he has apparently sent us a little message for everyone at Uncloaked and answered a few of our burning questions.
24:07Hello, Ed and the audience of Uncloaked.
24:11I'm sorry I couldn't be there tonight.
24:14Absolutely gutted.
24:15Love, I love Uncloaked.
24:17I think it's brilliant.
24:18I think Ed is brilliant.
24:21He's a brilliant presenter and I don't tell him enough.
24:26But anyway, sorry I can't be there.
24:28I'm involved in quite a large boot sale at the moment.
24:32Not just selling, but also I'm involved with the taking the money at the gate.
24:40And it's quite a big commitment this end, so apologies.
24:44Has anything surprised me now that I've seen the episode?
24:49Yeah, I'll tell you what has surprised me, which is, I'll be honest, it bugged me, is that you hardly ever see the room with the snooker table in it.
24:56What's it like watching conversations you weren't there for?
25:00Ooh, I love it.
25:01I love having a listen to the other conversations because it's like being invisible, isn't it?
25:07And you go, I can hear what you're saying.
25:09I can hear you gossiping.
25:12I'm not a traitor.
25:14I'm not.
25:16See?
25:17It's just the way I carry myself.
25:18Would you have preferred to be a traitor or still a faithful?
25:24Ooh.
25:25Well, I've said from day one, I wanted to see the turret.
25:30I wanted to have a little mooch about the turret, hang out with Claudia, scheme.
25:37Just basically have more turret time.
25:41I just wanted a bit of turret time.
25:44I hope you have a lovely evening.
25:45Bye.
25:46Well, there we are.
25:48There's only one Joe Wilkinson.
25:50There is.
25:52There's never been a player quite like Joe, has there?
25:54There did look like your ring doorbell vagrant that you didn't want.
26:00I'm calling the police now.
26:02Go away.
26:03I am recording this.
26:06Now, before we finish, there's a few more things we need to talk about.
26:09Mark, what did you make of Nick and Joe's secret sabotage of the chess mission?
26:14Um, I'm not sure.
26:17What might not have been smart was Nick revealing it at the round table.
26:22I thought that was quite surprising that he did that.
26:25Another pivotal moment in this episode was Alan forgetting he had a shield.
26:29Let's have a look.
26:30Oh, my God.
26:30I mean, I am really picky.
26:34I feel after my cock up with Mark.
26:36Just feel...
26:37Yeah.
26:37And also the traitors murder people who stick their head above the parapet.
26:42But they didn't murder you overnight, did they?
26:44They also won't murder you tonight.
26:46What?
26:47You've got a shield.
26:52Oh, yeah, I've got a shield.
26:55I'll give up.
26:56I'll give up.
26:58It's a huge moment, that, isn't it?
26:59That's really interesting.
27:00Why didn't we pile on him more?
27:02I know, I know.
27:03Crazy.
27:03Joe's on the money again.
27:05Yeah.
27:06But with Alan, everyone just seems to be going, oh, that's Alan.
27:08I know, he puts his hands in front of his mouth and goes like that and takes his glasses
27:13off and blinks and puts them on again.
27:16Then there you are.
27:17And that's Alan.
27:18Now, if you had to pick who to murder next, out of Kate, Lucy or Nick, who do you think
27:23you would murder if you were in the traitors' shoes?
27:26Well, I'd see Nick as the biggest threat.
27:28Nick's the biggest threat, definitely.
27:30And Lucy did say, forget the double bluff and the triple bluff and everything else.
27:34It's Jonathan.
27:35Look at him.
27:35Yeah, that was an amazing moment where Lucy finally twigs.
27:39Look, I know.
27:40What if it's just the most obvious?
27:42Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:45Kate's had heat on her a few times throughout the show so far.
27:51So I think that's quite a useful thing for them to have still around.
27:55Yes.
27:56Do you think the heat on Kate's sort of worn off a bit?
27:58Now people realise that is just genuinely her personality.
28:01There is an openness about her.
28:03And I think we certainly see now that the things that made her suspicious to begin with to
28:08some, you know, the slight over-the-top, the big laugh and everything, is just her character.
28:12Her character.
28:13We've got used to that.
28:14I love that moment in the chess mission where she's voted as weakest player and she's delighted.
28:19She's like, my weaknesses have become my strengths.
28:22Yes!
28:22Stephen, Mark and Jazz, it's been a pleasure having you on Uncloat.
28:27Thank you so much for being here.
28:28If you're craving more, then head over to BBC Sounds for the bonus episode where we get
28:32into what it's really like stepping into the traitor's game and spill even more of those
28:36castle secrets with Stephen, Mark and Jazz.
28:39It's in your BBC Sounds app right now.
28:41Just scan the QR code on your screen.
28:43And if you reckon you've got what it takes to be a traitor or a faithful next series,
28:47head to bbc.co.uk forward slash take part to apply.
28:51We'll be back after episode seven for more Uncloat.
28:54But until then, I'm Ed Gamble.
28:56Stay faithful.
28:57Stay faithful.
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