Why Reverts May Hold the Key to a More United Malaysia

Sinar Daily

In a nation often divided by race, religion and political lines, reverts offer a rare and powerful perspective - one forged through the lived experience of crossing identities, cultures and worldviews.   President of Al Khaadem Datuk Dr Sheikh Hussain Yee brings decades of respected da’wah experience rooted in compassion and cross-cultural engagement.   The Country Director of Softenger Zaid Azlan Klair offers a corporate lens on navigating identity and leadership as a revert in the modern professional world.   From the policy front, Deputy Director of Research at Khazanah Research Institute Yin Shao Loong contributes analytical insight into nation-building and social cohesion.   Together, they unpack how reverts often overlooked, carry the emotional, intellectual and spiritual tools to unite where others divide.  #RevertsUnitingMalaysia #UnityInDiversity #FromFractureToFuture #MalaysiaHarmonious

Transcript

00:00:00And the topic is ever so timely on the eve of Merdeka, and I have to look up to see my topic.

00:00:06Okay, why reverts may be the bridge builders to unite the nation, Shah Wah.

00:00:12So I'm going to start straight away with Brother Zaid and Brother Shah Lung.

00:00:18When we talk about bridge builders, as reverts, do you feel that you are at an advantage

00:00:27because you have double empathy, as you call it, because you are able to relate to and understand

00:00:34both groups, the not yet Muslims, and the Muslims, better than most people?

00:00:41What would you say, Brother Zaid?

00:00:46Hello.

00:00:48Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

00:00:50Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

00:00:52Thank you very much, Sister Anis, for the question.

00:00:57Before I start, such a beautiful thing to see here today.

00:01:02Alhamdulillah.

00:01:03I think the committee has done a fantastic, phenomenal job in bringing all of us together.

00:01:11Alhamdulillah.

00:01:16Do you still remember your question?

00:01:18I do.

00:01:18Okay.

00:01:19I do.

00:01:19Double empathy, right?

00:01:21Yes, it's true.

00:01:27As a revert, you do feel that you have double empathy.

00:01:32The reason why is because before I became a Muslim, I was a Punjabi from a Sikh family, right?

00:01:41So, when I became a Muslim, I embraced both sides.

00:01:50Muslim side and my past.

00:01:55And I noticed that I sat on the bridge of these two sides.

00:02:01You know?

00:02:02So, it's very interesting.

00:02:05Also, when we start to have conversations with not yet Muslims, I feel that I'm in a position

00:02:13that I understand them a little bit more.

00:02:17You know?

00:02:17The reason why is because when you listen without judgment and you listen without making a decision

00:02:28and pay attention to those words that come out from a not yet Muslim, with empathy, you

00:02:39understand where they're coming from.

00:02:41I think that's the start.

00:02:43Right?

00:02:43And when I became a Muslim, obviously, you have heard all the stories today.

00:02:51It's true.

00:02:52It happens.

00:02:53Right?

00:02:55Can we erase them?

00:02:56No.

00:02:57Can we learn from them?

00:02:58Yes.

00:03:00Right?

00:03:00That's the reason why we're here today, to learn.

00:03:03And when we speak to non-Muslims, not yet Muslims, right, we understand their situation.

00:03:14And when we are Muslims ourselves, we understand our situation from where we come from.

00:03:18That explains why we have double empathy.

00:03:20Alhamdulillah.

00:03:21Thank you so much.

00:03:21Alhamdulillah.

00:03:22Brother Shaolin, would you like to add to that, please?

00:03:29Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

00:03:31Waalaikumussalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

00:03:33Thank you very much to you, Sheikh Husseini and Al-Kadim, for having me here.

00:03:39And I would also like to start by expressing my appreciation for the previous panelists and

00:03:44the stories that you've told, and very, very touching to the heart to hear.

00:03:49In terms of the question of empathy, perhaps I might start by talking about the first time

00:03:57I took a serious effort to learn about Islam, and that was about 20 years ago.

00:04:03I was in the U.S.

00:04:07This is around 2005, and this is the time of the Iraq War.

00:04:12And I was studying political science in New York, and there was quite considerable Islamophobia.

00:04:19And as someone who was studying politics, but also someone coming from Malaysia, I felt I

00:04:28didn't sufficiently understand Islam enough.

00:04:31I knew enough that what was being said by certain Americans was lacking in truth, lacking in empathy,

00:04:44sometimes outright ridiculous.

00:04:46I'll give you one example.

00:04:47Sure.

00:04:47I went for a seminar about military affairs, and I listened to a professor from the United

00:04:57States War College talk about different doctrines of insurgency.

00:05:03So he had Chairman Mao's book on insurgency, Che Guevara's book on guerrilla warfare.

00:05:09And then he tried to say that what insurgents in Iraq were using as their military doctrine was

00:05:15the Quran.

00:05:15Yeah.

00:05:16So I thought this can't be right, you know?

00:05:19It doesn't make sense.

00:05:20From what I, little I knew of the Quran at that time, this cannot be true.

00:05:24So I said I had to go study for myself.

00:05:26So I ended up, I ended up taking a semester doing sociology of religion.

00:05:31And I read what the West described as political Islam.

00:05:36Abdul Allah Madhudi, Sheikh Qutub, you know, others like that.

00:05:40Jamal Adin al-Afghani.

00:05:42Many of whom were basically critics of Western imperialism.

00:05:45And the effects on their societies and their attempts to try and seek renewal, seek dynamism and relevance

00:05:56with the pressures of decolonization and the new imperialism.

00:06:00And I found much to sympathize with there because I had previously spent a lot of time studying imperialism and colonialism.

00:06:08And that made me, you know, understand that there wasn't really so much difference.

00:06:17Right.

00:06:17Right?

00:06:18Actually, maybe I had a lot more in common with these thinkers from an ideological, political point of view.

00:06:25You know, many people on the left of the political spectrum could actually understand this

00:06:29without necessarily picking, trying to pick a fight about religion as such or belief in a single God.

00:06:37So, of course, you know, I didn't take the step then.

00:06:40I only took the step more recently and that was due to love and my wife.

00:06:44And, but also on a personal basis, if you don't mind me sharing, Islam was always a part of my family.

00:06:54I'm actually not the first Muslim in my family.

00:06:56And we spoke about this earlier.

00:06:58Yeah.

00:06:59Yeah.

00:07:00And if you don't mind, I'll share it because I think it touches on what Sheikh wanted me to talk about today.

00:07:05Yeah.

00:07:06You see, I'm not the first Muslim in my family.

00:07:09The first Muslim in my family is actually my great-grandfather.

00:07:11And he came from, he actually came from China.

00:07:16Okay.

00:07:16Genuine Chinese.

00:07:18And I'll read you a bit of his, I guess, his CV because it's, I don't consider myself whatever Chinese is.

00:07:26I'm not particularly Chinese as most people regard it.

00:07:29But his CV is pretty Chinese.

00:07:32You know, he came from Manchuria.

00:07:33He came from Manchuria, first to Singapore, then Johor, then up to Kedah.

00:07:38And in 1936, he established the Kedah Chinese Chamber of Commerce.

00:07:44And was its first secretary.

00:07:46In 1949, he was elected the first president of the Malaysian-Chinese Association, the MCA, Kedah Perlis Branch.

00:07:56In 1951, something called the Chiyu Club, the oldest surviving Chinese club in Kedah, was officially opened by Ma Tianying, who you may know as the late Haji Ibrahim Ma.

00:08:09Yes.

00:08:09And my great-grandfather, Yin Tok, was its first president.

00:08:16So, my grandfather and Haji Ibrahim Ma were good friends because they were both actually original, worn in China, Chinese.

00:08:25Haji Ibrahim Ma, who's the co-founder of Perkim, Persatuan Kebajikan Islam Malaysia with Tunggu Abdul Rahman, was an envoy of the Chinese government to Malaysia, to Malaya at the time.

00:08:38And in 1951, Haji Ibrahim convinced my great-grandfather with five other ethnic Chinese to embrace Islam in public at the Kedah Royal Mosque, Marjit Zahir.

00:09:00At the ceremony were the regional Kedah, the Mr. Basah, the British advisor, and 3,000 people of all different backgrounds.

00:09:10MashaAllah.

00:09:10And we have a photo somewhere, published in some journal, you know, Straits Journal or something like that, of him, just after he took Shahada.

00:09:17Right.

00:09:18And we always grew up with this knowledge that my great-grandfather was a Muslim.

00:09:22But he did it towards the end of his life.

00:09:24And unfortunately, he only survived three years as a Muslim before he passed away.

00:09:29And I'm actually in my third year as a Muslim.

00:09:33So, about the same amount of time.

00:09:37And I checked with one of his surviving children earlier this year.

00:09:40He never got to take the Hajj in that brief moment.

00:09:44And I also understand from some ustazus that maybe in the future it's possible for me to undertake Hajj on his behalf, right?

00:09:51To do, complete what he could never complete.

00:09:54And hopefully, you know, Inshallah, I get the chance.

00:09:57Inshallah.

00:09:58So, having said all that, are you then saying that, yes, I can understand I have that added advantage over the rest of the population, for example?

00:10:08I can see both sides.

00:10:10And I think it's important to remember how to communicate to people who aren't Muslim.

00:10:16Absolutely.

00:10:17And I think it's also important the words we use, you know.

00:10:22I think sometimes, and if you don't mind me saying it, sometimes when we use the terms like revert and so forth, convert, it's more of an in-group reference.

00:10:30It's something that we only understand as Muslims.

00:10:32But if someone who's not Muslim, they may not understand what that really means, right?

00:10:36It can be alienating, which can be the opposite of what we're trying to achieve.

00:10:39So, we want to build bridges as much as possible.

00:10:42And then, in a way, it's kind of, we have to do a lot of learning, right?

00:10:46First, you have to learn to be Muslim.

00:10:47Then, we have to learn how to talk to non-Muslims.

00:10:49Right.

00:10:49You have to, you know, and then how to talk back again.

00:10:52And then even talk, as we heard earlier, how to talk to people who've been born Muslim.

00:10:56Yeah.

00:10:57We have to do a lot of learning on our part.

00:10:59But that's not new.

00:11:00I think something that comes with Islam is that you have to do a lot of pursuit of knowledge.

00:11:04But this is just one of the additional tasks that we have to do in the Malaysian context as well.

00:11:09Okay.

00:11:10Thank you for that, Shalong.

00:11:11I'm going to revisit that point you spoke about, using the words revert and, you know,

00:11:16it being an in-group thing a little later on.

00:11:19But I just want to touch base with Dato Sheh Hussain on this matter.

00:11:23I'm almost embarrassed to ask him this question about, you know, being, having double empathy.

00:11:31Because for us that have been working with him and have been in the New Muslims community with him,

00:11:38Dato Sheh is actually the architect of empathy.

00:11:41For a born Muslim who's volunteering in NMC, we learned a lot about having sympathy and empathy from him.

00:11:49It's from his own struggles and his own personal journeys from being, you know, at a young age,

00:11:55being chased out of masjids and mosques and, you know, being ostracized.

00:12:00He taught us, the NMC volunteers, how to accommodate, on how to welcome the not yet Muslims,

00:12:07and anybody who wants to learn about Islam.

00:12:09And just a quick plug-in on NMC, because I think it's also important to share with the audience today

00:12:14what this program is all about.

00:12:16I mean, you know about the conference, but you may not know the unit behind it.

00:12:22So NMC, as you know, is New Muslims Community.

00:12:26It's already 12 years old, but of course, that is the unit itself.

00:12:32But the work of sharing the message of Islam, of bringing people back to the truth,

00:12:37started with Dato Sheh and, of course, the early volunteers like Umim Tiaz and everybody else,

00:12:42more than 40 years ago.

00:12:43So with NMC, you know, Aliza Kim loves to say this to people whom she meets, right?

00:12:51I'm student 001, because she was actually the first student, quote-unquote, of NMC.

00:12:57We didn't have, like, a structured program, and she was the one who said,

00:13:02look, you know, if I were to become a Muslim, I need a place to study.

00:13:06I need a place to go.

00:13:07And we had a conversation, and that was when we set up NMC, and she was the first student,

00:13:13and she was the only one.

00:13:14I think, Aliza, if you're still here, I can't see you.

00:13:17I think you were, you were, you, it was like a one-on-one with Usa Sharif or something like that, right?

00:13:23And from that day one, the program has grown, alhamdulillah, every week without fail.

00:13:29So on Saturdays, we have volunteers, born Muslims and reverts alike,

00:13:33who sacrifice their Saturdays, week in, week out, to come and speak and welcome people

00:13:41who are really looking, either looking for the truth or looking for guidance or just, you know,

00:13:46obviously just, you know, want to know more.

00:13:49So to all the volunteers here, and just to let you know as well,

00:13:53the program has been run by volunteers for maybe close to nine, ten years

00:13:59before we got a permanent staff, which is Brother Hilmi, the coordinator.

00:14:03So it is because of him also that we're able to do this program.

00:14:06So with that, Dato, you know, giving a little bit of background on NMC,

00:14:12like we said earlier, we don't want to talk about you having empathy because we know you do.

00:14:17It's through you that we learn all this.

00:14:19I suppose if we were to reangle the question, it would be,

00:14:23what would be the legacy that you'd like to leave behind for us?

00:14:30For your volunteers, your Jamal has been so deep into this journey with you.

00:14:37That will be the first question.

00:14:39And what has motivated you to do this and encourage, you know,

00:14:44your volunteers to sacrifice as well to do this for the deen?

00:14:48Dato, please.

00:14:53Alhamdulillah, wassalatu wassalamu ala rasulillah,

00:14:57wa ala ahdihi wa sahbihi ajba'in,

00:14:59Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

00:15:01Wa alaikum salam.

00:15:02Firstly, I'd like to thank our moderator and also our panel,

00:15:09the last group of panel.

00:15:11I was involved in the beginning, now I'm also involved in the ending.

00:15:17And also for all the volunteers and the audience who have been very patient with us

00:15:22and still staying is the karma, I have a lot of patience, sabar.

00:15:30Now, my humble experience has been revert, so-called, sometimes we say revert,

00:15:36last time we call convert.

00:15:38Of course, this is a new term too.

00:15:41In the time of the Muslim, in the first generation, second and third generation,

00:15:47you don't have these terms.

00:15:48This is a new term that we adopted because it's been used very openly.

00:15:55In the time of the Prophet, first, second generation,

00:15:59every Muslim always introduced themselves, I'm a Muslim.

00:16:05Allah said,

00:16:05Whose speech, word is more beneficial,

00:16:17love by Allah than people who open their mouth,

00:16:22calling people back to Allah.

00:16:24Like all the Prophet and messengers,

00:16:26their duty is to invite people back to one God.

00:16:31Allah rupal alamin.

00:16:32And of course, the caller must set a good example,

00:16:38wa amila saliha.

00:16:39He must act righteously.

00:16:42Because if you are not good,

00:16:44it's not easy to call other people to become good.

00:16:48You want the best, you give the best.

00:16:52Then at the end, Allah said,

00:16:53Always, the ending,

00:16:59you must be proud of yourself

00:17:01to share this beautiful name,

00:17:06title, I am a Muslim.

00:17:09When you say I'm Muslim,

00:17:11that means you represent everybody.

00:17:13Not only reverse,

00:17:15not only born Muslim,

00:17:18not only Malaysian,

00:17:19you represent the whole ummah.

00:17:24But since we have been using revert, convert,

00:17:27it's still okay.

00:17:30But my humble experience,

00:17:32being a Muslim since 1968,

00:17:36and I keep on getting closer,

00:17:39a lot of my friends who are not yet Muslim,

00:17:42my family members,

00:17:43we know at the ending,

00:17:46if anybody who died without accepting Allah,

00:17:51committing shirik,

00:17:53there's no future for them.

00:17:56And it's very wrong

00:17:59for us who have Islam with us now,

00:18:03who got the guidance,

00:18:04keep this to yourself.

00:18:06It's time to share.

00:18:08We can save a lot of people.

00:18:13You don't know.

00:18:15You just set a great example,

00:18:17share with others,

00:18:19if they become Muslim,

00:18:21Alhamdulillah.

00:18:23Da'wah is a responsibility

00:18:25of every Muslim,

00:18:27young and old,

00:18:29male and female.

00:18:30But we have failed.

00:18:32Majority of us failed.

00:18:34And I remember

00:18:37the hadith of the Prophet

00:18:38informed us,

00:18:40izah mata ibn adam

00:18:41in qatar amaluh.

00:18:43When we pass away,

00:18:45or when we are going to end our life,

00:18:48everything stop.

00:18:50We can't eat,

00:18:51we can't drink,

00:18:52we can't do anything

00:18:53except waiting

00:18:55for our last departure.

00:18:58We have to return back

00:19:00to Allah sooner or later.

00:19:01And we do not want

00:19:04to fail

00:19:05ourself,

00:19:07our family

00:19:08who are not yet Muslim,

00:19:10our friend,

00:19:11good friend

00:19:12who are not yet Muslim.

00:19:14We don't want

00:19:15to fail them.

00:19:17So,

00:19:18the Prophet said,

00:19:19only three things

00:19:21benefit all of us.

00:19:24First,

00:19:25sadaqatin jariyah.

00:19:27If you have money,

00:19:29use your money,

00:19:30your wealth,

00:19:31to support,

00:19:34contribute

00:19:34for a good cause

00:19:35for the sake of Allah.

00:19:38Even you die,

00:19:39but if you have

00:19:40left behind

00:19:41a property

00:19:42for the sake of Allah,

00:19:43you will get

00:19:44all the ongoing reward

00:19:47for what you have

00:19:49left behind.

00:19:50Sadaqatin jariyah.

00:19:51Second,

00:19:52knowledge

00:19:53that benefit you,

00:19:54Islam.

00:19:55It's the best knowledge.

00:19:57We know

00:19:57Islam is the best,

00:19:58but they do not know.

00:20:01You have to do something.

00:20:04All the Prophet

00:20:05was sent

00:20:05for the same mission.

00:20:07And we know

00:20:08Prophet Muhammad

00:20:08is the last messenger.

00:20:10No more Prophet

00:20:10is going to be sent.

00:20:12That's why

00:20:12only this generation,

00:20:15Ummat Muhammad,

00:20:15we was granted

00:20:18by Allah

00:20:19khaira ummah,

00:20:20the best generation.

00:20:23Because

00:20:24we act as

00:20:25ummatan

00:20:26waqsatiya,

00:20:27shuhada al-nas.

00:20:29You are

00:20:30the middle

00:20:31ummah.

00:20:32You were

00:20:33bear witness

00:20:34among fellow

00:20:35mankind.

00:20:37Why they are not

00:20:38yet Muslim?

00:20:39Why they don't

00:20:40accept Islam?

00:20:41All of us

00:20:42who are Muslim

00:20:42will be responsible

00:20:43to Allah.

00:20:46I feel that

00:20:47strongly in me.

00:20:49That's why

00:20:49I start all this

00:20:51program,

00:20:51Al-Khadim.

00:20:53Then we start

00:20:53keep on

00:20:54teaching all of us

00:20:55students.

00:20:56We want them

00:20:57to be productive

00:20:58Muslim.

00:20:59Not just be a Muslim

00:21:00and just think

00:21:01of yourself.

00:21:03Be productive.

00:21:05Share

00:21:06the beauty

00:21:07of Islam

00:21:08to other

00:21:08people.

00:21:09Ilmun

00:21:10yunta

00:21:10fibi.

00:21:12Everything

00:21:12that you have

00:21:13done here

00:21:14before you

00:21:14die,

00:21:15all the good

00:21:16things you

00:21:17share Islam,

00:21:18can you

00:21:18imagine all

00:21:19the good

00:21:20deeds that

00:21:21the people

00:21:21are doing,

00:21:22you get

00:21:23ongoing

00:21:23reward.

00:21:25Alhamdulillah.

00:21:26It's

00:21:27Allah's

00:21:28blessing.

00:21:29And lastly

00:21:30is

00:21:30waladun

00:21:31saliyyat

00:21:32ulah.

00:21:33We are

00:21:33going to

00:21:33die.

00:21:35We have

00:21:35children.

00:21:36We want

00:21:36our children

00:21:37to be

00:21:37righteous

00:21:37children.

00:21:39We want

00:21:40a righteous

00:21:40family.

00:21:42Because

00:21:43if they

00:21:43are righteous,

00:21:44they will

00:21:45always

00:21:45remember us,

00:21:46they will

00:21:47pray for

00:21:47our soul.

00:21:50And that

00:21:50is why

00:21:50we need

00:21:52to leave

00:21:53a legacy

00:21:54to

00:21:56make sure

00:21:57that

00:21:57we have

00:21:59shared

00:22:00the beauty

00:22:00of Islam

00:22:01to whoever

00:22:03we know

00:22:04who is

00:22:04close to

00:22:05us.

00:22:06The rest

00:22:07you leave

00:22:08it to

00:22:08Allah.

00:22:10May Allah

00:22:10guide us

00:22:11and may

00:22:12Allah

00:22:12make us

00:22:13a good

00:22:15practicing

00:22:16Muslim and

00:22:17Muslimah.

00:22:18I mean,

00:22:18thank you

00:22:19so much

00:22:19for that.

00:22:20As you

00:22:20can hear,

00:22:21the legacy

00:22:22is leaving

00:22:23behind

00:22:23the ability

00:22:26for individuals

00:22:27to share

00:22:27the message.

00:22:28And a lot

00:22:29of times

00:22:29the conversations

00:22:30that we

00:22:30have with

00:22:31a lot of

00:22:31Jemaah,

00:22:32even with

00:22:32the public,

00:22:33is,

00:22:34but I do

00:22:34not know

00:22:35how to

00:22:35convey the

00:22:36message.

00:22:36I do

00:22:37not know

00:22:37how to

00:22:38talk to

00:22:38my neighbor

00:22:38to introduce

00:22:39to them

00:22:39Islam.

00:22:40I don't

00:22:40know where

00:22:41to start.

00:22:41And you've

00:22:42seen this

00:22:45from the

00:22:45earlier panels

00:22:46where you

00:22:46see Brother

00:22:47Ferdows

00:22:47Wong,

00:22:48Dr.

00:22:48Hadji

00:22:49Kamaruddin,

00:22:50Dr.

00:22:50Adam Wu

00:22:51talking about

00:22:52how coming

00:22:52to Al-Khadim,

00:22:54they learned

00:22:54all the

00:22:55skills.

00:22:56Because it's

00:22:56not something

00:22:57that you're

00:22:57born with,

00:22:58but it's

00:22:58something that

00:22:59you can

00:22:59learn and

00:23:00pick up.

00:23:01So,

00:23:01again,

00:23:02it goes

00:23:02back to

00:23:03the NMC.

00:23:04We've

00:23:04learned so

00:23:05much about

00:23:05adab,

00:23:06about values,

00:23:07about wisdom,

00:23:08in just

00:23:09sharing the

00:23:09universality

00:23:10of Islam.

00:23:11So,

00:23:12do come

00:23:12to Al-Khadim

00:23:13and NMC

00:23:14if you haven't

00:23:14already.

00:23:15But one of

00:23:16the things

00:23:16I'd like to

00:23:17point out

00:23:17also,

00:23:17and I'd like

00:23:18to share,

00:23:18this is my

00:23:18personal sharing,

00:23:19as a born

00:23:20Muslim,

00:23:20I always

00:23:21think that

00:23:22reverts

00:23:23always have

00:23:25the advantage

00:23:25of being

00:23:26a great

00:23:27example.

00:23:28Like,

00:23:28it opens

00:23:29doors for

00:23:29you to

00:23:30speak about

00:23:31Islam.

00:23:32Like,

00:23:32you know,

00:23:32that's what

00:23:32Haji Kamaruddin

00:23:33was talking

00:23:33about it.

00:23:34On that

00:23:35note,

00:23:35I'd like

00:23:36to start

00:23:36with Shalun.

00:23:37What

00:23:38has been,

00:23:39you've been

00:23:39for three

00:23:40years already,

00:23:41you said?

00:23:41What has

00:23:42been the

00:23:42toughest part

00:23:43and the

00:23:44most beautiful

00:23:45about navigating

00:23:47your racial

00:23:48or cultural

00:23:50identity

00:23:51before and

00:23:52after Islam?

00:23:54Okay,

00:23:55thank you

00:23:55for the

00:23:55question.

00:23:56I mean,

00:23:57first,

00:23:57let me put

00:23:59this out

00:23:59there.

00:23:59I think

00:23:59to think

00:24:01of,

00:24:03I think

00:24:03both the

00:24:04Quran and

00:24:04science both

00:24:05hold that

00:24:05there's only

00:24:06one race,

00:24:07and that's

00:24:07the human race.

00:24:09We're all

00:24:10descended from

00:24:10one man,

00:24:11one woman.

00:24:12We may

00:24:12have been,

00:24:13Allah made us

00:24:14into tribes

00:24:15or peoples

00:24:15to get to

00:24:16know each

00:24:16other,

00:24:16as it goes.

00:24:19And within,

00:24:22if we hold to

00:24:22this idea of race,

00:24:23which is a very

00:24:24British idea,

00:24:25it's one of the

00:24:25British ideas we

00:24:26should let go of.

00:24:28Driving on the

00:24:28left side of the

00:24:29road,

00:24:29okay,

00:24:30but I think

00:24:31holding the idea

00:24:32of race,

00:24:33it divides us,

00:24:34actually,

00:24:34because it helps

00:24:36retain this notion

00:24:37that there's maybe

00:24:38even a little bit

00:24:39of a biological

00:24:40difference that

00:24:41separates us.

00:24:42We're all one

00:24:42species.

00:24:43It's not like

00:24:43monkeys and apes

00:24:44and humans,

00:24:45you know?

00:24:45It's all humans

00:24:46and humans

00:24:46and humans,

00:24:47but there are

00:24:47many different

00:24:48types.

00:24:49And the idea of

00:24:50race is politically

00:24:51produced,

00:24:53right?

00:24:53And it's

00:24:53politically produced

00:24:54here,

00:24:55just as it was

00:24:55in India,

00:24:56as in the United

00:24:57States,

00:24:58where Malcolm X

00:24:58was from,

00:24:59and in many

00:25:00other places.

00:25:01And it's

00:25:02politically produced

00:25:03to divide us

00:25:03for the purposes

00:25:05of parties

00:25:05to appeal

00:25:06to politics,

00:25:07right?

00:25:08It's very

00:25:08pragmatic.

00:25:09But I think

00:25:10it goes against

00:25:11what we're trying

00:25:12to achieve

00:25:12in terms of

00:25:13religion,

00:25:14in terms of

00:25:15national unity,

00:25:16or even

00:25:16international

00:25:17solidarity.

00:25:19And these are

00:25:20some of the

00:25:20challenges,

00:25:21you know?

00:25:22I feel strange

00:25:23when last week

00:25:24I was at

00:25:25Friday Kutbah

00:25:25and I'm asked

00:25:27to do what

00:25:27for race,

00:25:28religion,

00:25:29and nation.

00:25:30Religion,

00:25:31nation,

00:25:31yes,

00:25:31I can understand,

00:25:32but race,

00:25:32I don't know.

00:25:34Should I?

00:25:35Does that feel

00:25:35right?

00:25:37Maybe that's

00:25:38something to

00:25:38have a debate

00:25:39about.

00:25:40Maybe that's

00:25:41something we

00:25:41need to discuss.

00:25:42I think it's

00:25:43not just about

00:25:44speaking,

00:25:45but we also

00:25:45have to listen.

00:25:47I mean,

00:25:48going back

00:25:48just a little

00:25:49bit to the

00:25:49story I shared

00:25:50earlier about

00:25:51my great

00:25:51grandfather,

00:25:52what was

00:25:52the reason

00:25:52why he was

00:25:53asked to

00:25:54embrace Islam

00:25:55by Haji

00:25:56Ibrahim

00:25:56Ma?

00:25:57Because in

00:25:581951,

00:25:59there was

00:25:59a lot

00:26:00of tension

00:26:00between

00:26:01Chinese and

00:26:01Malays

00:26:02in the lead

00:26:03up to

00:26:03Merdeka.

00:26:04We're in

00:26:04Merdeka week

00:26:06now,

00:26:06actually.

00:26:08And his

00:26:09effort was

00:26:09to try and

00:26:10reassure

00:26:11Malays that

00:26:12there's nothing

00:26:12to fear

00:26:12from Chinese,

00:26:14right?

00:26:14To at least

00:26:15establish one

00:26:16very clear

00:26:18basis of

00:26:19commonality,

00:26:21right?

00:26:22Now,

00:26:23we're at

00:26:23how many years

00:26:24after Merdeka

00:26:25already?

00:26:2668.

00:26:2668,

00:26:2768,

00:26:27right?

00:26:28And,

00:26:28you know,

00:26:29surely we

00:26:30must have

00:26:30more in

00:26:30common.

00:26:32Surely there

00:26:33must be

00:26:33more that

00:26:33we can

00:26:34discuss

00:26:34with each

00:26:34other.

00:26:35Religion is

00:26:36one,

00:26:36yes,

00:26:37shared

00:26:37faith,

00:26:38shared

00:26:38aspiration,

00:26:40right?

00:26:40Shared hopes.

00:26:43But this

00:26:43is the

00:26:43things we

00:26:44have to,

00:26:44but we

00:26:44don't

00:26:44understand

00:26:45enough

00:26:45about

00:26:45each

00:26:45other.

00:26:46It's

00:26:46very sad

00:26:46to say.

00:26:48I have

00:26:48friends who

00:26:49maybe they

00:26:50went through

00:26:51the whole

00:26:51Chinese school

00:26:52system,

00:26:52and they

00:26:54don't

00:26:54understand

00:26:55what

00:26:55taipoism

00:26:55is,

00:26:55for example.

00:26:57You know?

00:26:57I was

00:26:58surprised.

00:26:58Because actually,

00:26:59I didn't

00:27:00grow up in

00:27:00Malaysia.

00:27:01I grew up

00:27:02overseas.

00:27:03I only

00:27:03came back

00:27:04to Malaysia

00:27:04when I

00:27:04was nine

00:27:05years old.

00:27:06And in

00:27:08that time,

00:27:09at least I

00:27:09tried to

00:27:09learn some

00:27:10things about

00:27:10the different

00:27:11cultures and

00:27:12societies here.

00:27:13And I

00:27:13think before

00:27:14we can build

00:27:15Bridges of

00:27:16Unity,

00:27:16we also have

00:27:17to understand

00:27:17and listen

00:27:18to where

00:27:18people are

00:27:19coming from

00:27:19so that we

00:27:20know where

00:27:21they can

00:27:21go to.

00:27:21Right.

00:27:22So what

00:27:23you're saying

00:27:23is listen

00:27:24to each

00:27:24other's

00:27:25stories.

00:27:25Is that

00:27:26correct?

00:27:26Listen to

00:27:27each other's

00:27:27stories and

00:27:28also listen

00:27:28to each

00:27:28other's

00:27:29fears.

00:27:29Also

00:27:30understand

00:27:30what

00:27:30matters.

00:27:31Because fear

00:27:31will drive

00:27:32us apart.

00:27:33Right?

00:27:33Rather than

00:27:34drive us

00:27:34together.

00:27:35Absolutely.

00:27:36Absolutely.

00:27:37Dato, would

00:27:38you like to

00:27:38weigh in on

00:27:39that?

00:27:39Anything to

00:27:40add to

00:27:40that?

00:27:42Do you

00:27:42agree with

00:27:44Xiao Lung

00:27:45when he

00:27:45talks about

00:27:46fear drives

00:27:47us apart

00:27:48rather than

00:27:49uniting

00:27:49us?

00:27:50we all

00:27:52as Muslim

00:27:53we agree

00:27:53that Islam

00:27:55is based

00:27:56on love,

00:27:57mercy,

00:27:58forgiving.

00:28:00It's not

00:28:00talking about

00:28:01putting fear

00:28:03in anybody's

00:28:04mind.

00:28:04No.

00:28:05even our

00:28:08Prophet

00:28:08was sent

00:28:11not to

00:28:11bring fear

00:28:12to anybody

00:28:13but to

00:28:15bring

00:28:15rahmah,

00:28:16mercy.

00:28:18Not to

00:28:19judge

00:28:20anybody

00:28:20but to

00:28:22guide

00:28:22and share

00:28:24with

00:28:24everybody.

00:28:27One

00:28:27important

00:28:27thing that

00:28:28I like to

00:28:29add

00:28:29is that

00:28:30the fear

00:28:33that we

00:28:34are having

00:28:35sometimes

00:28:36actually

00:28:38that

00:28:40destroyed

00:28:40the good

00:28:41feeling

00:28:42that we

00:28:42have

00:28:42developed.

00:28:43Malaysia

00:28:44has gone

00:28:46through

00:28:46a lot.

00:28:48We

00:28:48successfully

00:28:49have learned

00:28:51how to

00:28:52eat

00:28:52fruits,

00:28:55how to

00:28:56eat foods

00:28:57from

00:28:57different

00:28:58races.

00:29:00You can

00:29:00eat

00:29:00chapati,

00:29:01roti

00:29:01chanai,

00:29:03nasi

00:29:03khanda,

00:29:04you can

00:29:05also take

00:29:06moi,

00:29:08Chinese

00:29:08chap chai,

00:29:10every chai

00:29:11also you

00:29:11can.

00:29:12In this

00:29:13area we

00:29:13are very

00:29:14successful.

00:29:16We are

00:29:17mixed

00:29:17but we

00:29:19still have

00:29:19to work

00:29:20harder

00:29:20that we

00:29:22can live

00:29:22together as

00:29:23one family

00:29:24and care

00:29:26for each

00:29:26other like

00:29:27what the

00:29:29panel

00:29:29speaker

00:29:29share with

00:29:30us.

00:29:31We

00:29:32believe we

00:29:33can start

00:29:33from among

00:29:35us.

00:29:36Everything

00:29:36starts from

00:29:37me,

00:29:38from you.

00:29:39Don't wait

00:29:40for something

00:29:41miracle to

00:29:42happen.

00:29:43Everybody

00:29:44start to

00:29:45do some

00:29:46changes

00:29:46within

00:29:47yourself.

00:29:49I

00:29:49personally

00:29:50believe that

00:29:51we can

00:29:52change

00:29:54and bring

00:29:56this nation

00:29:57together in

00:29:59a near

00:30:00future.

00:30:00Inshallah.

00:30:01Inshallah.

00:30:02You were

00:30:02saying

00:30:02food,

00:30:03integrating

00:30:03food into

00:30:05our lives

00:30:06seems to

00:30:06be okay

00:30:06but anything

00:30:07else is

00:30:08hard.

00:30:09So I'm

00:30:10going to

00:30:10bring this

00:30:11conversation

00:30:11back to

00:30:12you,

00:30:12Zayat.

00:30:12So for

00:30:17Reva,

00:30:17for you,

00:30:18what was

00:30:19the toughest

00:30:19part when

00:30:21you reverted

00:30:22and at

00:30:23the same

00:30:23time trying

00:30:24to bring

00:30:25together that

00:30:26cultural

00:30:27identity or

00:30:28racial identity

00:30:29that you

00:30:29have and

00:30:30what was

00:30:30the most

00:30:30beautiful?

00:30:32Alhamdulillah.

00:30:33Bismillah.

00:30:36It's going

00:30:37to be 10

00:30:37years for me

00:30:38come this

00:30:39October as

00:30:40a Muslim.

00:30:41Alhamdulillah.

00:30:42It's the

00:30:43most beautiful

00:30:44journey I've

00:30:45ever experienced

00:30:46in my life.

00:30:47I'm grateful

00:30:48every day

00:30:49to be able

00:30:51to surround

00:30:52myself with

00:30:52Islam.

00:30:56One of the

00:30:57hardest things

00:30:58that I went

00:30:59through in

00:31:00my journey

00:31:01was

00:31:02navigating

00:31:05the expectation

00:31:07that I set

00:31:08on myself.

00:31:09You know,

00:31:10sometimes I

00:31:10take things a

00:31:11little too

00:31:11hard.

00:31:12sometimes I

00:31:15want my

00:31:16experience to

00:31:17be as

00:31:18perfect as

00:31:20possible.

00:31:21I want to

00:31:22soak my

00:31:24entire experience

00:31:25of Islam

00:31:26and be

00:31:28really good at

00:31:29it, for

00:31:29example.

00:31:31And these

00:31:33are things that

00:31:33I put on

00:31:34myself and I

00:31:35learned that I

00:31:35have to be a

00:31:36little bit more

00:31:36easy on

00:31:37myself as I

00:31:38continue my

00:31:39journey.

00:31:41And, you

00:31:43know, coming

00:31:43from a

00:31:44Punjabi

00:31:44background, it

00:31:46wasn't that

00:31:47easy as well,

00:31:48you know, with

00:31:49my family.

00:31:50We

00:31:50remembered that

00:31:51story.

00:31:53So, like,

00:31:54for example,

00:31:56Punjabis are

00:31:57really big on

00:31:58events.

00:31:59Have you ever

00:32:00been to a

00:32:00Punjabi

00:32:01wedding before,

00:32:02guys?

00:32:02it's a one-week

00:32:05event, you

00:32:06know?

00:32:08Do we have any

00:32:09Punjabis here in

00:32:10the crowd?

00:32:10Sure of

00:32:10hands, any

00:32:11Punjabis here?

00:32:12Any Punjabis?

00:32:13So, I'm the

00:32:14only one.

00:32:15Oh, yeah?

00:32:17Yes, alhamdulillah.

00:32:20So, you know,

00:32:21it's a one-week

00:32:23event, right?

00:32:24So, when I was

00:32:25Muslim, you

00:32:27know, my

00:32:28families would

00:32:29ask me to

00:32:29dance, come

00:32:31and join us.

00:32:32There are some

00:32:32rituals that we

00:32:34will be doing.

00:32:35So, I

00:32:36learned very

00:32:37early that

00:32:38how do I

00:32:40please Allah

00:32:41and at the

00:32:42same time

00:32:43honor my

00:32:44family.

00:32:45Masha Allah.

00:32:46Right?

00:32:46It's a very

00:32:47thin line to

00:32:48navigate.

00:32:50So, I

00:32:50learned how to

00:32:51put some

00:32:52boundaries.

00:32:54These are the

00:32:54things that I

00:32:55cannot do.

00:32:55I'm sorry.

00:32:57Right?

00:32:57These are the

00:32:58things I can

00:32:59do.

00:32:59Alhamdulillah, I

00:33:00will participate

00:33:01where I can.

00:33:03And the most

00:33:04important thing

00:33:04that I've also

00:33:05learned, when

00:33:06your family

00:33:07calls you for

00:33:07event, don't

00:33:09run away.

00:33:11join.

00:33:13Show.

00:33:15Show up.

00:33:16Show up.

00:33:17Right?

00:33:17It's important.

00:33:19Because that

00:33:20gives them

00:33:21some kind of

00:33:22feeling, you

00:33:23know, that

00:33:24hey, even

00:33:26though he's

00:33:27Muslim or she's

00:33:28Muslim, still

00:33:30one of us.

00:33:31And then we

00:33:32show our

00:33:33akhlaq, our

00:33:34character.

00:33:35You know?

00:33:36Because as a

00:33:38Punjabi, right,

00:33:40what is important

00:33:42to a Punjabi

00:33:43family, number

00:33:44two is

00:33:45community.

00:33:47Number three

00:33:48is respecting

00:33:49our elders.

00:33:51The same

00:33:51thing is found

00:33:52in Islam.

00:33:54That didn't

00:33:55sound very

00:33:56alien to me

00:33:58when I

00:33:59embrace Islam.

00:34:00It was very

00:34:00easy.

00:34:01Right?

00:34:03So the

00:34:03hardest thing

00:34:04was to

00:34:05navigate

00:34:05through this

00:34:08situation.

00:34:08but the

00:34:10most beautiful

00:34:11thing, right,

00:34:13the most

00:34:13beautiful thing

00:34:14is people

00:34:16like all of

00:34:17you here.

00:34:18You know?

00:34:20The energy,

00:34:22the love,

00:34:23the trust,

00:34:25the care,

00:34:26the kindness,

00:34:28you know,

00:34:28that you

00:34:29would show

00:34:30to new

00:34:32Muslims

00:34:32like me

00:34:33when I was

00:34:34in my

00:34:35journey.

00:34:36without

00:34:37judgment,

00:34:38I've never

00:34:39experienced

00:34:40anyone forcing

00:34:41me to do

00:34:42anything that

00:34:42I didn't

00:34:43want to do.

00:34:45Alhamdulillah.

00:34:46And I

00:34:47only,

00:34:48I only

00:34:49experience

00:34:50guidance.

00:34:51And of

00:34:52course,

00:34:52with Sheikh's

00:34:53help,

00:34:54I learned

00:34:55a lot of

00:34:55things.

00:34:56And that

00:34:56was the

00:34:57beautiful

00:34:57journey for

00:34:58me,

00:34:58is

00:34:59experiencing

00:35:00your journey

00:35:01yourself.

00:35:02and to

00:35:04be open.

00:35:06Correct me

00:35:06if I'm

00:35:07wrong,

00:35:07but did

00:35:07you say

00:35:08that your

00:35:08father was

00:35:10a caretaker

00:35:11of the

00:35:11temple in

00:35:12the kampung?

00:35:13Was that

00:35:13correct?

00:35:14No.

00:35:14Okay.

00:35:15No, no, no.

00:35:15What was

00:35:16your dad's

00:35:17job at

00:35:18that time

00:35:18when you

00:35:19were?

00:35:20My dad

00:35:21was a

00:35:22businessman.

00:35:23Oh,

00:35:23businessman.

00:35:24Yeah,

00:35:24he was a

00:35:25businessman.

00:35:25All right.

00:35:26I grew

00:35:27up in,

00:35:28my mother

00:35:29is a

00:35:30single

00:35:30parent.

00:35:31and my

00:35:35father and

00:35:36my mother

00:35:36separated

00:35:37when I

00:35:37was young.

00:35:38So my

00:35:38mother is

00:35:39the only

00:35:39one for

00:35:40me and

00:35:41I was

00:35:41the only

00:35:41child.

00:35:43So you

00:35:44could imagine

00:35:44how I

00:35:45would have

00:35:46to,

00:35:46my situation

00:35:47was when

00:35:47I broke

00:35:48it to

00:35:48her.

00:35:49That was

00:35:49also one

00:35:50of the

00:35:50hardest

00:35:50things.

00:35:51But I

00:35:52think it

00:35:52helped

00:35:52because you

00:35:53did a

00:35:54lot of

00:35:54foundational

00:35:55learning,

00:35:56trying to

00:35:57understand

00:35:58the

00:35:58knowledge

00:35:59first instead

00:36:00of the

00:36:01ritual.

00:36:01There's a

00:36:02lot of

00:36:02research that

00:36:03goes into

00:36:04learning about

00:36:06Islam before

00:36:07you embrace

00:36:07it.

00:36:09The reason

00:36:09why I

00:36:10mention

00:36:10research is

00:36:11because I'm

00:36:11going to

00:36:12throw this

00:36:12question to

00:36:12Shaolong.

00:36:13Because Shaolong's

00:36:14work in

00:36:15research with

00:36:15Hazana is

00:36:17the reason

00:36:17why we're

00:36:17asking this

00:36:18next question.

00:36:20You know,

00:36:20you think a

00:36:22lot about

00:36:22Malaysia's

00:36:23future with

00:36:24your work

00:36:25at Hazana.

00:36:25my question

00:36:28would be

00:36:29what can

00:36:29be done

00:36:30more on

00:36:31a national

00:36:32level

00:36:32program or

00:36:33policy or

00:36:34campaign to

00:36:36unite

00:36:36Malaysia?

00:36:37we have

00:36:39institutions like

00:36:40the Abims and

00:36:42the Jawis and

00:36:43the Perkins and

00:36:44the Maes and

00:36:45you know,

00:36:45Jais.

00:36:46How can we

00:36:47unite these

00:36:48institutions with

00:36:49reverts at the

00:36:50center to be

00:36:52that bridge,

00:36:54you know,

00:36:55to bring the

00:36:56country together?

00:36:57Any thoughts on

00:37:00that?

00:37:00This is a

00:37:01tough question.

00:37:03But you're a

00:37:03thinker.

00:37:04You're a

00:37:04thinker and

00:37:05researcher.

00:37:08And yes,

00:37:09I think it's

00:37:10one that

00:37:10requires a

00:37:11lot of

00:37:11careful

00:37:12thought.

00:37:13I think we

00:37:13have to

00:37:14try and

00:37:15unpick

00:37:16who we

00:37:19are and

00:37:21why we

00:37:21are and

00:37:23what we

00:37:24are and

00:37:24also who

00:37:26we want to

00:37:26become.

00:37:28And that

00:37:28means having

00:37:29interrogation of

00:37:30the past,

00:37:32understand the

00:37:32present,

00:37:33and also

00:37:34collective

00:37:35future.

00:37:36And these

00:37:38are very

00:37:39tough questions

00:37:39to deal with

00:37:40in the

00:37:40Malaysian

00:37:40context,

00:37:41right?

00:37:41Because like

00:37:42I mentioned

00:37:43earlier,

00:37:43you know,

00:37:44we don't

00:37:45draw a sharp

00:37:46distinction

00:37:46between race

00:37:47and ethnicity.

00:37:48We blur it

00:37:48all here,

00:37:49right?

00:37:50It's as if

00:37:50it's still

00:37:50like 1950

00:37:51in some

00:37:52senses.

00:37:54And yet

00:37:54things have

00:37:55moved on

00:37:56and yet

00:37:56things haven't

00:37:56moved on.

00:37:58I think

00:37:59we need

00:38:00to have

00:38:01the ability

00:38:04to have

00:38:05critical debate

00:38:06and discussion

00:38:07about what

00:38:08the fault

00:38:09lines are,

00:38:10what the

00:38:11red lines

00:38:11are,

00:38:12and understand

00:38:13why people

00:38:14hold on

00:38:16to these

00:38:17sensitivities.

00:38:18I mean,

00:38:19you know,

00:38:19I've raised

00:38:19some issues

00:38:21before in

00:38:21my work

00:38:22colleagues

00:38:22and

00:38:22we have

00:38:23an unwritten

00:38:24rule that

00:38:25we don't

00:38:25touch

00:38:25ethnicity

00:38:26in our

00:38:27research.

00:38:27We may

00:38:28look at

00:38:28inequality,

00:38:29but we

00:38:29look at

00:38:29everybody's

00:38:29inequality.

00:38:31We may

00:38:32look at

00:38:33poverty,

00:38:33but we

00:38:34look at

00:38:34everybody's

00:38:34poverty.

00:38:37Regardless

00:38:38of where

00:38:39you may

00:38:40come from

00:38:40in Malaysia,

00:38:43the where

00:38:44may only

00:38:44be concerned

00:38:46about geography.

00:38:46Yes,

00:38:48Kalantan,

00:38:49or this

00:38:49part of

00:38:49district

00:38:50of

00:38:50Inchanganu

00:38:51has these

00:38:52certain

00:38:52factors and

00:38:52problems.

00:38:53So we

00:38:53try to be

00:38:54sort of

00:38:54colorblind

00:38:55in that

00:38:56sense.

00:38:57At the

00:38:58same time,

00:38:59one of the

00:38:59problems

00:38:59of being

00:38:59colorblind

00:39:00is that

00:39:00you don't

00:39:01see it

00:39:01when color

00:39:02becomes

00:39:02something

00:39:02that

00:39:03people

00:39:04pick

00:39:04upon.

00:39:07That goes

00:39:08beyond some

00:39:09of the

00:39:09work that

00:39:10we normally

00:39:10do as a

00:39:11socioeconomic

00:39:11institute.

00:39:13I think

00:39:13that goes

00:39:13into work

00:39:14that

00:39:14I

00:39:17encountered

00:39:17when I

00:39:17was in

00:39:18the States

00:39:18actually.

00:39:19I mean,

00:39:19I met

00:39:19activists

00:39:20there

00:39:20who

00:39:21put

00:39:24themselves

00:39:24through

00:39:24programs

00:39:25of

00:39:26kind

00:39:26of

00:39:27what

00:39:28was it

00:39:28called?

00:39:29It was

00:39:29kind of

00:39:30a program

00:39:30to kind

00:39:30of

00:39:30deconstruct

00:39:31white

00:39:32privilege

00:39:32and

00:39:32racism.

00:39:33And it's

00:39:33mainly

00:39:33white

00:39:33activists

00:39:34who went

00:39:34through

00:39:35it.

00:39:36And then

00:39:36some

00:39:36activists

00:39:37of color

00:39:37who also

00:39:38go there

00:39:38to

00:39:39understand

00:39:39the

00:39:40system

00:39:40of

00:39:41oppressions

00:39:41that

00:39:41were

00:39:41built

00:39:42up.

00:39:43And

00:39:44because

00:39:44we

00:39:44come

00:39:44from

00:39:45a

00:39:45colonial

00:39:45background,

00:39:47a lot

00:39:48of that

00:39:48is still

00:39:48there.

00:39:49Like,

00:39:49if you

00:39:49talk to

00:39:49people

00:39:50who may

00:39:51be of

00:39:51Indian

00:39:51origin

00:39:52here in

00:39:52Malaysia,

00:39:54I think

00:39:54you forget

00:39:55those issues

00:39:56at your

00:39:57cost,

00:39:58right?

00:39:58Because

00:39:58there's a

00:39:59lot of

00:40:00oppression

00:40:00from the

00:40:00estates.

00:40:01And there's

00:40:02a legacy

00:40:02of that

00:40:03that still

00:40:03continues

00:40:04today.

00:40:04And if

00:40:05we don't

00:40:05understand

00:40:06that

00:40:08suffering

00:40:09and the

00:40:10multigenerational

00:40:11impacts of

00:40:11that suffering

00:40:12and have

00:40:13empathy for

00:40:14it,

00:40:14then we

00:40:16can't build

00:40:16bridges for

00:40:17the future.

00:40:17We don't

00:40:18understand why

00:40:18people get

00:40:19angry,

00:40:20why people

00:40:20feel left

00:40:21out,

00:40:21why people

00:40:21feel hurt,

00:40:23right?

00:40:23Even today,

00:40:25after how

00:40:25many decades?

00:40:26Because the

00:40:27wounds are

00:40:28still there.

00:40:29So then

00:40:30the task

00:40:30becomes,

00:40:31with work

00:40:32like research,

00:40:33is to help

00:40:34policymakers and

00:40:36other people

00:40:36understand how

00:40:37is it we

00:40:38can heal?

00:40:38And where

00:40:40does healing

00:40:41need to be

00:40:41directed?

00:40:42And to whom

00:40:43does it need

00:40:43to be directed?

00:40:45And that

00:40:45doesn't mean

00:40:45picking favorites,

00:40:46but rather

00:40:47it's picking

00:40:47justice,

00:40:48right?

00:40:48And I think

00:40:49this goes

00:40:49back to the

00:40:49heart of

00:40:51what we

00:40:52can learn

00:40:52from Islam

00:40:52as well.

00:40:53It's about

00:40:53justice.

00:40:54There's

00:40:54principles of

00:40:55redistribution,

00:40:56of zakat,

00:40:57and so forth,

00:40:58and good

00:40:59character,

00:41:00and we have

00:41:01to begin

00:41:01to let

00:41:01go of

00:41:02the bits

00:41:03of ourselves

00:41:03that we're

00:41:04taught,

00:41:04maybe from

00:41:05very young,

00:41:06to cling

00:41:06to,

00:41:07but maybe

00:41:07they hurt

00:41:08other people

00:41:08by us

00:41:09clinging very

00:41:09hard to

00:41:10them.

00:41:10And then

00:41:11we all

00:41:11have to

00:41:11let go

00:41:12a bit.

00:41:13What's the

00:41:13outlook for

00:41:14the future?

00:41:15Do you

00:41:15think this

00:41:15is something

00:41:16that is

00:41:16achievable?

00:41:17If so,

00:41:18what are we

00:41:19looking at

00:41:19in a matter

00:41:20of three

00:41:21years,

00:41:21five years,

00:41:22or something

00:41:23that is

00:41:23just wishful

00:41:24thinking?

00:41:25I think

00:41:26one thing

00:41:26I've learned

00:41:28from embracing

00:41:29Islam is

00:41:30it's hard

00:41:31work,

00:41:32it's

00:41:32discipline,

00:41:33and it's

00:41:34daily effort.

00:41:35It's

00:41:37not just

00:41:37five times

00:41:37a day,

00:41:38but it's

00:41:38throughout

00:41:38the day,

00:41:38in between

00:41:39the five

00:41:39times.

00:41:40And I

00:41:40think maybe

00:41:41nation-building

00:41:41is like

00:41:42that as

00:41:42well.

00:41:43You've

00:41:44got to

00:41:44keep going

00:41:45at it,

00:41:46and you

00:41:47can't give

00:41:49up,

00:41:49hope,

00:41:51and then

00:41:52you have

00:41:52to try

00:41:53and find

00:41:55the moments

00:41:55where it

00:41:56all makes

00:41:57sense and

00:41:57it all

00:41:58seems

00:41:58worthwhile.

00:42:00Like

00:42:01Brother Malek

00:42:01shared earlier

00:42:02about what

00:42:03Malcolm X

00:42:04experienced in

00:42:04Hajj.

00:42:05I felt

00:42:06that when

00:42:06I went

00:42:06to

00:42:07Mecca

00:42:07as

00:42:07well.

00:42:09Suddenly,

00:42:09there's

00:42:10people

00:42:10from

00:42:10everywhere

00:42:10there,

00:42:12and it's

00:42:12not about

00:42:13me being

00:42:13a Chinese

00:42:14Muslim

00:42:14or Malay

00:42:16Muslim

00:42:16or whatever

00:42:16like that.

00:42:17It's just

00:42:17we're all

00:42:18here,

00:42:18we all

00:42:19have the

00:42:20same

00:42:20purpose.

00:42:20Maybe

00:42:20some

00:42:21people

00:42:21are

00:42:21a bit

00:42:21rougher,

00:42:22they're

00:42:22pushing

00:42:22you around

00:42:22how it

00:42:23is

00:42:23in

00:42:25Haram.

00:42:26But

00:42:26other people

00:42:27are not,

00:42:27and everybody

00:42:28has their

00:42:29own

00:42:29struggle.

00:42:30I think

00:42:32it's to

00:42:33understand

00:42:34those

00:42:34kind of

00:42:34things

00:42:34with

00:42:35compassion,

00:42:35Ramah.

00:42:38I think

00:42:38those are

00:42:38the kind

00:42:38of

00:42:39qualities

00:42:39we can

00:42:40begin to

00:42:41cultivate

00:42:42more,

00:42:42rather than

00:42:43just look

00:42:43at differences.

00:42:44When you

00:42:45say we,

00:42:46are we

00:42:46looking just

00:42:47at the

00:42:47reverts?

00:42:48I speak

00:42:49as Malaysian

00:42:49here.

00:42:50I speak

00:42:50as Malaysian.

00:42:51Malaysians

00:42:52also have

00:42:52to be

00:42:52kind

00:42:53to

00:42:53non-Malaysians

00:42:53because

00:42:54there are

00:42:55many

00:42:56people

00:42:57here

00:42:57who

00:42:58are

00:42:58of

00:42:58foreign

00:42:59citizenship.

00:43:00They are

00:43:01Muslims,

00:43:01they are

00:43:02Christians,

00:43:03whoever,

00:43:04they may

00:43:04be refugees

00:43:05as well.

00:43:05They are

00:43:06treated

00:43:06incredibly

00:43:06poorly

00:43:07by Malaysians.

00:43:09Of course

00:43:09there are

00:43:09great Malaysians

00:43:10who do

00:43:10a lot

00:43:11to help

00:43:11them,

00:43:12but I

00:43:13think we

00:43:14can do

00:43:14better.

00:43:15I think

00:43:15we need

00:43:15to have

00:43:17a very

00:43:17honest

00:43:18conversation

00:43:19about how

00:43:19we can

00:43:20be more

00:43:21compassionate

00:43:21and better

00:43:22as a

00:43:23people,

00:43:23as a

00:43:23nation.

00:43:23I like

00:43:26what

00:43:27Brother

00:43:28Shalom

00:43:28was

00:43:28sharing

00:43:28that

00:43:28we

00:43:29have

00:43:29to

00:43:29be

00:43:29honest,

00:43:30have

00:43:30more

00:43:30conversations.

00:43:32How do

00:43:32we

00:43:33achieve

00:43:33this

00:43:33with

00:43:34Islam

00:43:35that

00:43:36centers

00:43:38us,

00:43:38that

00:43:38grounds

00:43:39us?

00:43:40We

00:43:40all

00:43:40subscribe

00:43:41to

00:43:41this

00:43:42identity

00:43:42that

00:43:43we're

00:43:43Muslims

00:43:44but

00:43:44it's

00:43:45just

00:43:45by

00:43:45name.

00:43:46We

00:43:46don't

00:43:46really

00:43:47understand

00:43:48the

00:43:48values.

00:43:49When

00:43:50we

00:43:50were

00:43:50talking

00:43:50about

00:43:51bringing

00:43:51together

00:43:51these

00:43:52institutions

00:43:52and

00:43:53having

00:43:53campaigns

00:43:53of

00:43:53policies

00:43:54to

00:43:54unite,

00:43:55it's

00:43:56almost

00:43:57abysmal

00:43:58in thinking

00:43:59that it's

00:43:59not going

00:43:59to happen.

00:44:04Being a

00:44:05Muslim,

00:44:06we have

00:44:06been guided

00:44:07by Allah's

00:44:08commandment.

00:44:09and the

00:44:13best

00:44:13example

00:44:14is from

00:44:15Prophet Muhammad

00:44:16in

00:44:1923

00:44:20years

00:44:20of his

00:44:21mission,

00:44:22he

00:44:22united

00:44:23360

00:44:27tribes

00:44:28in

00:44:29Mecca

00:44:29in

00:44:3023

00:44:31years

00:44:32and

00:44:34he

00:44:34united

00:44:34the

00:44:35people

00:44:35of

00:44:35Medina

00:44:36just

00:44:3823

00:44:38years

00:44:39we

00:44:41have

00:44:41our

00:44:44independence

00:44:45for

00:44:4560

00:44:46years

00:44:46we

00:44:48thought

00:44:49that it

00:44:49will

00:44:49strengthen

00:44:50the

00:44:51nation

00:44:52become

00:44:53stronger

00:44:53more

00:44:54united

00:44:54but we

00:44:56face

00:44:56another

00:44:57challenges

00:44:57it's

00:44:58just

00:44:58the

00:44:58opposite

00:44:59our

00:45:01Prophet

00:45:02was

00:45:03sent

00:45:03to

00:45:04represent

00:45:04everybody

00:45:05when

00:45:07you

00:45:07talk

00:45:07about

00:45:07rights

00:45:08everybody

00:45:09is

00:45:09right

00:45:10not

00:45:10only

00:45:10one

00:45:11group

00:45:11of

00:45:11people

00:45:12right

00:45:12when

00:45:13you

00:45:13talk

00:45:14about

00:45:14justice

00:45:15justice

00:45:16for

00:45:16all

00:45:16not

00:45:17only

00:45:17justice

00:45:18for

00:45:18certain

00:45:19group

00:45:19of

00:45:19people

00:45:20that

00:45:22is

00:45:22our

00:45:23mission

00:45:23Islam

00:45:26is

00:45:27so

00:45:27beautiful

00:45:28everything

00:45:28is

00:45:29been

00:45:29perfected

00:45:30that's

00:45:30why

00:45:30I

00:45:31was

00:45:31so

00:45:32happy

00:45:33so

00:45:34proud

00:45:34to

00:45:34share

00:45:35this

00:45:35ayah

00:45:36to

00:45:36everybody

00:45:37anywhere

00:45:38I

00:45:39go

00:45:39I

00:45:41said

00:45:41this

00:45:41is

00:45:42the

00:45:42only

00:45:43book

00:45:44in

00:45:45the

00:45:45Quran

00:45:45verses

00:45:47that

00:45:47Allah

00:45:48said

00:45:48today

00:45:511400

00:45:52years

00:45:53ago

00:45:53Allah

00:45:54said

00:45:54I

00:45:54perfected

00:45:55my

00:45:55religion

00:45:56for

00:45:56you

00:45:56ready

00:45:58made

00:45:59if

00:46:00there

00:46:01anything

00:46:01that

00:46:01you

00:46:01want

00:46:02to

00:46:02do

00:46:02if

00:46:02ready

00:46:02made

00:46:02you

00:46:03just

00:46:03use

00:46:03I

00:46:06completed

00:46:10my

00:46:11favor

00:46:11for

00:46:12all

00:46:12of

00:46:12you

00:46:12the

00:46:13creator

00:46:13is

00:46:13talking

00:46:14to

00:46:14us

00:46:14I

00:46:15perfected

00:46:16my

00:46:16religion

00:46:17what

00:46:17is

00:46:18religion

00:46:18do

00:46:19and

00:46:19don't

00:46:20what

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00:46:21say

00:46:22what

00:46:22not

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00:46:24everything

00:46:25from

00:46:27the

00:46:27day

00:46:27you

00:46:27are

00:46:28born

00:46:28until

00:46:28you

00:46:28die

00:46:29all

00:46:29the

00:46:29SOP

00:46:30is

00:46:30been

00:46:31perfected

00:46:32completed

00:46:32by

00:46:33the

00:46:33creator

00:46:34how

00:46:35blessed

00:46:36we

00:46:36are

00:46:36we

00:46:38don't

00:46:38have

00:46:38to

00:46:38look

00:46:38to

00:46:38the

00:46:38east

00:46:39west

00:46:39just

00:46:39look

00:46:40into

00:46:40Quran

00:46:40and

00:46:41the

00:46:41sunnah

00:46:42the

00:46:42prophet

00:46:42everything

00:46:44settled

00:46:46and

00:46:48then

00:46:48we

00:46:49have

00:46:49the

00:46:49best

00:46:49but

00:46:51the

00:46:51problem

00:46:51of

00:46:52us

00:46:52today

00:46:53we

00:46:54have

00:46:54the

00:46:55best

00:46:55product

00:46:56we

00:46:57don't

00:46:57have

00:46:58good

00:46:59salesman

00:46:59and

00:47:00saleswoman

00:47:01our

00:47:03product

00:47:04is

00:47:04fantastic

00:47:05everything

00:47:07when I

00:47:08learned

00:47:08more

00:47:08about

00:47:08Islam

00:47:09I

00:47:10was

00:47:10so

00:47:10proud

00:47:11to

00:47:11be

00:47:11a

00:47:11Muslim

00:47:12that

00:47:13I

00:47:14am

00:47:14here

00:47:14to

00:47:14share

00:47:15and

00:47:15you

00:47:15see

00:47:16the

00:47:16prophet

00:47:16make

00:47:16it

00:47:17very

00:47:17simple

00:47:17the

00:47:19prophet

00:47:19said

00:47:20to

00:47:20all

00:47:20of

00:47:20us

00:47:21you

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00:47:25to

00:47:25share

00:47:25even

00:47:26one

00:47:26ayah

00:47:26that

00:47:28you

00:47:28have

00:47:29memorized

00:47:29you

00:47:30understood

00:47:30you

00:47:32act

00:47:32upon

00:47:33it

00:47:33don't

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00:47:34it

00:47:34to

00:47:34yourself

00:47:35just

00:47:36share

00:47:37sharing

00:47:38is

00:47:38caring

00:47:39that

00:47:41is

00:47:42all

00:47:42we

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00:47:42to

00:47:43do

00:47:43and

00:47:45how

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00:47:45be

00:47:46a

00:47:46good

00:47:46promoter

00:47:49first

00:47:50be

00:47:51a

00:47:51good

00:47:51listener

00:47:52that's

00:47:53why

00:47:54the

00:47:54prophet

00:47:54said

00:47:54the

00:47:55power

00:47:56of

00:47:56listening

00:47:57when

00:47:58people

00:47:59are

00:47:59talking

00:47:59to

00:47:59us

00:48:00scholars

00:48:01are

00:48:01talking

00:48:01to

00:48:02us

00:48:02leaders

00:48:02are

00:48:02talking

00:48:03to

00:48:03us

00:48:03parents

00:48:05talking

00:48:05to

00:48:06us

00:48:06be

00:48:06a

00:48:07good

00:48:08listener

00:48:08thing

00:48:11you

00:48:11don't

00:48:11understand

00:48:11you

00:48:12have

00:48:12the

00:48:12right

00:48:12to

00:48:13ask

00:48:13one

00:48:16you

00:48:16have

00:48:16the

00:48:16understanding

00:48:17the

00:48:18next

00:48:18thing

00:48:19we

00:48:19have

00:48:19to

00:48:19do

00:48:20like

00:48:20how

00:48:21the

00:48:21prophet

00:48:21was

00:48:22sent

00:48:22I

00:48:25listen

00:48:26I

00:48:27understood

00:48:28I

00:48:29have

00:48:29to

00:48:29follow

00:48:29act

00:48:31upon

00:48:32it

00:48:32obey

00:48:33listen

00:48:35and

00:48:35obey

00:48:36so

00:48:37I

00:48:38personally

00:48:38believe

00:48:39all of

00:48:40us

00:48:41who are

00:48:41here

00:48:41are

00:48:43good

00:48:43listeners

00:48:43Alhamdulillah

00:48:46that's

00:48:47why

00:48:47you

00:48:47were

00:48:47with

00:48:48us

00:48:48from

00:48:48the

00:48:48beginning

00:48:49to

00:48:49the

00:48:49end

00:48:49and

00:48:51one

00:48:52of

00:48:52the

00:48:52important

00:48:53spirit

00:48:53that

00:48:54I

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00:48:54to

00:48:55share

00:48:55before

00:48:56we

00:48:57move

00:48:57to

00:48:57the

00:48:57other

00:48:58question

00:48:58please

00:49:00brother

00:49:00and

00:49:00sister

00:49:01whatever

00:49:01we

00:49:01do

00:49:02be

00:49:03sincere

00:49:04about

00:49:04it

00:49:04if

00:49:06there's

00:49:06no

00:49:06sincerity

00:49:07you

00:49:08cannot

00:49:08be

00:49:09consistent

00:49:09consistency

00:49:12is

00:49:13very

00:49:14crucial

00:49:14like

00:49:18how

00:49:18we

00:49:19live

00:49:19together

00:49:19as

00:49:20a

00:49:20family

00:49:21if

00:49:23we

00:49:23are

00:49:23very

00:49:23consistent

00:49:24understand

00:49:25the

00:49:25struggle

00:49:26of

00:49:26the

00:49:27elders

00:49:28the

00:49:29leaders

00:49:30before

00:49:30us

00:49:31the

00:49:31first

00:49:32prime

00:49:32minister

00:49:32of

00:49:33Malaysia

00:49:33who

00:49:34is

00:49:34known

00:49:34as

00:49:35Baba

00:49:35Malaysia

00:49:36everybody

00:49:37love

00:49:37him

00:49:37every

00:49:39race

00:49:39love

00:49:40him

00:49:40because

00:49:41he

00:49:41represent

00:49:42everybody

00:49:43follow

00:49:44up

00:49:44with

00:49:45is

00:49:46Tunku

00:49:46Abdul Rahman

00:49:47Putra

00:49:47Al-Hajj

00:49:47Al-Marhum

00:49:48I have

00:49:50the time

00:49:51to

00:49:52be with

00:49:53him

00:49:53for few

00:49:54years

00:49:54before

00:49:55he

00:49:55passed

00:49:55away

00:49:56from

00:49:57Penang

00:49:57until

00:49:59Kuala Lumpur

00:50:00because

00:50:00that's

00:50:01when I

00:50:01was

00:50:02invited

00:50:02to join

00:50:03Perkim

00:50:04but

00:50:06I

00:50:06just

00:50:07want

00:50:07everybody

00:50:08to

00:50:08understand

00:50:09how

00:50:11the

00:50:12not yet

00:50:13Muslim

00:50:13love

00:50:14and

00:50:15respect

00:50:15him

00:50:15highly

00:50:16because

00:50:18so far

00:50:19through

00:50:19my

00:50:20humble

00:50:20experience

00:50:21he

00:50:23is the

00:50:23poorest

00:50:24prime

00:50:25minister

00:50:26when

00:50:28he

00:50:28died

00:50:29he

00:50:29left

00:50:29almost

00:50:32nothing

00:50:32anyway

00:50:34when

00:50:35he

00:50:35traveled

00:50:35when

00:50:36he

00:50:36was

00:50:36honored

00:50:36by

00:50:38the

00:50:38king

00:50:38of

00:50:39Saudi

00:50:39by

00:50:41the

00:50:41leader

00:50:42of

00:50:42Pakistan

00:50:43everything

00:50:44that

00:50:45people

00:50:46donate

00:50:46to

00:50:47him

00:50:47he

00:50:48donated

00:50:49to

00:50:49Islam

00:50:50for

00:50:51Allah

00:50:52very

00:50:54simple

00:50:55humble

00:50:55personality

00:50:57that

00:50:58I

00:50:58was

00:50:59given

00:51:00the

00:51:00chance

00:51:00to

00:51:01be

00:51:02with

00:51:02him

00:51:02for

00:51:02at

00:51:03least

00:51:04eight

00:51:04years

00:51:05Alhamdulillah

00:51:06so

00:51:07brothers

00:51:08and

00:51:08sisters

00:51:08it's

00:51:10very

00:51:10important

00:51:10for

00:51:11us

00:51:11to

00:51:12be

00:51:12consistent

00:51:12be

00:51:13humble

00:51:13be

00:51:14sincere

00:51:15lastly

00:51:16you

00:51:17remember

00:51:17the

00:51:17prophet

00:51:17said

00:51:18do

00:51:19all

00:51:19of

00:51:19you

00:51:20want

00:51:20to

00:51:21save

00:51:21yourself

00:51:22from

00:51:22hellfire

00:51:23what

00:51:23you

00:51:23say

00:51:23brother

00:51:24and

00:51:24sister

00:51:24are

00:51:26we

00:51:26going

00:51:27to

00:51:28save

00:51:28ourselves

00:51:28from

00:51:29hellfire

00:51:29or

00:51:30we

00:51:30say

00:51:30I

00:51:31don't

00:51:31mind

00:51:31to

00:51:31go

00:51:32to

00:51:32hell

00:51:32or

00:51:32so

00:51:32do

00:51:36we

00:51:36love

00:51:36to

00:51:36save

00:51:36ourselves

00:51:37from

00:51:37hellfire

00:51:37sisters

00:51:38brothers

00:51:40alhamdulillah

00:51:42so

00:51:43the prophet

00:51:44said

00:51:44I

00:51:46will

00:51:46show

00:51:46you

00:51:46four

00:51:47noble

00:51:48characters

00:51:48that

00:51:50was

00:51:50sure

00:51:51to

00:51:51save

00:51:51you

00:51:51from

00:51:52hellfire

00:51:53then

00:51:55he

00:51:55continue

00:51:56you

00:52:07must

00:52:07be

00:52:09humble

00:52:09be

00:52:12polite

00:52:13when you

00:52:13talk to

00:52:14people

00:52:14when you

00:52:17talk and

00:52:17engage with

00:52:18people

00:52:18use

00:52:19the best

00:52:21word

00:52:21like

00:52:24Ali

00:52:24said

00:52:24every

00:52:25place

00:52:28there is

00:52:28a word

00:52:29every

00:52:29word

00:52:30there is

00:52:30a place

00:52:30and

00:52:32he

00:52:32also

00:52:32said

00:52:33every

00:52:37word

00:52:39that

00:52:40come

00:52:40from

00:52:40your

00:52:40heart

00:52:41will

00:52:42penetrate

00:52:42through

00:52:43the

00:52:43heart

00:52:43of the

00:52:44listener

00:52:44everything

00:52:46just

00:52:46come

00:52:46from

00:52:46the

00:52:47lip

00:52:47surface

00:52:47will

00:52:48enter

00:52:48the

00:52:48ear

00:52:49and

00:52:49it

00:52:49will

00:52:49disappear

00:52:50everything

00:52:52you

00:52:52do

00:52:53track

00:52:53your

00:52:53heart

00:52:54be

00:52:54sincere

00:52:55polite

00:52:57use

00:53:00the

00:53:00best

00:53:00word

00:53:00the

00:53:02elders

00:53:03commit

00:53:03mistake

00:53:04you

00:53:04want

00:53:05to

00:53:05remind

00:53:05them

00:53:05yes

00:53:06but

00:53:06you

00:53:07cannot

00:53:07be

00:53:08rude

00:53:08to

00:53:08them

00:53:08you

00:53:10cannot

00:53:11raise

00:53:12up

00:53:12your

00:53:13voice

00:53:13talking

00:53:13to

00:53:13your

00:53:14parent

00:53:14but

00:53:15your

00:53:15parent

00:53:15can

00:53:15raise

00:53:16up

00:53:16his

00:53:16wife

00:53:17he

00:53:17can

00:53:18scream

00:53:18at

00:53:19you

00:53:19come

00:53:19here

00:53:19boy

00:53:19you

00:53:21cannot

00:53:21say

00:53:21come

00:53:21here

00:53:21papa

00:53:22then

00:53:23you

00:53:23know

00:53:23what

00:53:23is

00:53:23happening

00:53:24what

00:53:25is

00:53:25going

00:53:25to

00:53:25come

00:53:25to

00:53:25you

00:53:27must

00:53:27know

00:53:27who

00:53:28you

00:53:28are

00:53:28who

00:53:29they

00:53:29are

00:53:31you

00:53:33must

00:53:33be

00:53:33a

00:53:33person

00:53:34who

00:53:35is

00:53:37easy

00:53:38to

00:53:39approach

00:53:39don't

00:53:42have

00:53:42a

00:53:42lot

00:53:42of

00:53:43protocol

00:53:43our

00:53:44prophet

00:53:44the

00:53:45first

00:53:45second

00:53:45third

00:53:46fourth

00:53:46kalifa

00:53:47is

00:53:47the

00:53:47best

00:53:48example

00:53:48they

00:53:50are

00:53:50great

00:53:50kalifa

00:53:51but

00:53:52they

00:53:53live

00:53:53like

00:53:55every

00:53:55one

00:53:56of

00:53:56us

00:53:56simple

00:53:57simplicity

00:53:59is part

00:54:01of

00:54:01iman

00:54:02the

00:54:02last

00:54:03one

00:54:03sahlun

00:54:04make

00:54:05easy

00:54:06for

00:54:07others

00:54:07please

00:54:08don't

00:54:08make

00:54:08life

00:54:09difficult

00:54:09there

00:54:10there

00:54:10are

00:54:10so

00:54:11many

00:54:11things

00:54:11that

00:54:11we

00:54:12can

00:54:12do

00:54:12together

00:54:13to

00:54:13make

00:54:13it

00:54:13easier

00:54:14for

00:54:14everybody

00:54:15so

00:54:17try

00:54:18to

00:54:18make

00:54:19everything

00:54:19easier

00:54:20and

00:54:21don't

00:54:21make

00:54:22things

00:54:23difficult

00:54:23to

00:54:24anyone

00:54:24yes

00:54:24siru

00:54:25the

00:54:25saying

00:54:27the

00:54:27prophet

00:54:28said

00:54:28make

00:54:29it

00:54:29easy

00:54:29don't

00:54:30make

00:54:30it

00:54:31difficult

00:54:32islam

00:54:33is

00:54:33simple

00:54:34and

00:54:34easy

00:54:35so

00:54:36may

00:54:37Allah

00:54:37guide

00:54:37us

00:54:38by

00:54:38four

00:54:39noble

00:54:39character

00:54:40if

00:54:40you

00:54:41try

00:54:41your

00:54:42best

00:54:42to

00:54:43act

00:54:44upon

00:54:44it

00:54:44you

00:54:45will

00:54:45find

00:54:46a lot

00:54:46of

00:54:47peace

00:54:47for

00:54:47yourself

00:54:48easy

00:54:48for

00:54:49you

00:54:49to

00:54:49unite

00:54:49other

00:54:50people

00:54:50insha

00:54:51Allah

00:54:51so

00:54:52the

00:54:53four

00:54:53noble

00:54:53characters

00:54:54lion

00:54:55hain

00:54:56korib

00:54:57and

00:54:57sow

00:54:58right

00:54:58so

00:54:59I

00:55:00just

00:55:00want

00:55:00to

00:55:00circle

00:55:00back

00:55:01to

00:55:01you

00:55:01brother

00:55:01Zaid

00:55:02we were

00:55:02talking

00:55:02to

00:55:02Shaldong

00:55:03earlier

00:55:03about

00:55:04you

00:55:04know

00:55:05national

00:55:05level

00:55:06programs

00:55:06and

00:55:07policies

00:55:07and

00:55:08campaigns

00:55:08and

00:55:08let's

00:55:10bring

00:55:10that

00:55:10down

00:55:11a

00:55:11notch

00:55:12at

00:55:12an

00:55:12individual

00:55:13level

00:55:13with

00:55:14your

00:55:15own

00:55:15experiences

00:55:15with

00:55:16your

00:55:16family

00:55:16and

00:55:16the

00:55:17kindness

00:55:17that

00:55:17Muslims

00:55:18have

00:55:18given

00:55:19you

00:55:19right

00:55:19how

00:55:20do

00:55:20you

00:55:20think

00:55:21we

00:55:21can

00:55:21scale

00:55:22this

00:55:22so

00:55:23that

00:55:23it

00:55:24pays

00:55:24its

00:55:24way

00:55:24forward

00:55:25in

00:55:26other

00:55:26words

00:55:26you

00:55:27know

00:55:27how

00:55:27can

00:55:27we

00:55:27extend

00:55:28the

00:55:28same

00:55:29kindness

00:55:29and

00:55:30empathy

00:55:30that

00:55:31same

00:55:31experience

00:55:32to the

00:55:33not yet

00:55:33Muslims

00:55:33that

00:55:34can

00:55:34help

00:55:34to solve

00:55:35today's

00:55:35problems

00:55:35bismillah

00:55:37bismillah

00:55:37well

00:55:41I

00:55:44remember

00:55:44something

00:55:44I

00:55:45learned

00:55:45many

00:55:45years

00:55:46ago

00:55:46what

00:55:48you

00:55:48focus

00:55:49on

00:55:49expands

00:55:50right

00:55:52how

00:55:53you

00:55:54do

00:55:54anything

00:55:54is

00:55:55how

00:55:55you

00:55:56do

00:55:56everything

00:55:57okay

00:55:58if

00:56:00you

00:56:00focus

00:56:01on

00:56:01complaining

00:56:01you

00:56:02will

00:56:02be

00:56:02the best

00:56:03complainer

00:56:04in the

00:56:04world

00:56:04because you

00:56:06focus on

00:56:06it

00:56:06it expands

00:56:07if you

00:56:09focus on

00:56:09doing good

00:56:10you will

00:56:11be doing

00:56:11good

00:56:11if you

00:56:13focus on

00:56:13the

00:56:13deen

00:56:14you focus

00:56:14on

00:56:15dakwa

00:56:15you will

00:56:16be really

00:56:17good at

00:56:17it

00:56:17because you're

00:56:18focusing on

00:56:19it

00:56:19that's

00:56:19your

00:56:20prime

00:56:20objective

00:56:21right

00:56:22so

00:56:23whenever

00:56:26we

00:56:26point

00:56:27a finger

00:56:28always

00:56:28remember

00:56:29three

00:56:29fingers

00:56:30point

00:56:30back

00:56:30at

00:56:30us

00:56:31three

00:56:32fingers

00:56:32point

00:56:32back

00:56:33at

00:56:33us

00:56:33so

00:56:34we

00:56:34should

00:56:34focus

00:56:35on

00:56:35ourselves

00:56:35so

00:56:37when

00:56:38our

00:56:38community

00:56:39is

00:56:39kind

00:56:39to

00:56:39us

00:56:40and

00:56:40when

00:56:40our

00:56:41community

00:56:41treats

00:56:42us

00:56:42well

00:56:43we

00:56:44do

00:56:45the

00:56:45same

00:56:46but

00:56:47when

00:56:47the

00:56:47community

00:56:47doesn't

00:56:48do

00:56:48that

00:56:48we

00:56:49have

00:56:49to

00:56:49maintain

00:56:50it's

00:56:51very

00:56:51important

00:56:51so

00:56:52if

00:56:53they're

00:56:53negative

00:56:53towards

00:56:54us

00:56:54we're

00:56:54positive

00:56:54towards

00:56:55them

00:56:55that's

00:56:55the

00:56:56lesson

00:56:56right

00:56:57correct

00:56:57okay

00:56:58now

00:56:59Shaolung

00:57:01in a

00:57:02conference

00:57:03like this

00:57:03for example

00:57:04what do

00:57:05you think

00:57:05are the

00:57:07actionable

00:57:08plans

00:57:09that

00:57:09we can

00:57:10do

00:57:11to bring

00:57:12the

00:57:12country

00:57:12together

00:57:13so

00:57:16far

00:57:16what

00:57:17you've

00:57:17shared

00:57:17personally

00:57:19for me

00:57:19I feel

00:57:20like

00:57:21we agree

00:57:23that there's

00:57:23a lot

00:57:24of work

00:57:24to be

00:57:25done

00:57:25and yet

00:57:26I don't

00:57:27see the

00:57:27light

00:57:28at the

00:57:28end of

00:57:28the

00:57:28tunnel

00:57:29I always

00:57:30share this

00:57:31with that

00:57:31we're on

00:57:32the eve

00:57:33of celebrating

00:57:33the 68

00:57:34years of

00:57:34Merdeka

00:57:35working with

00:57:37new Muslims

00:57:37community

00:57:38we have a

00:57:38lot of

00:57:38reverts

00:57:39and sometimes

00:57:39some of

00:57:40them are

00:57:40expats

00:57:41they speak

00:57:42only English

00:57:42and they want

00:57:43to get

00:57:43married

00:57:43we cannot

00:57:44even find

00:57:45an English

00:57:46speaking

00:57:47in

00:57:47Jerunica

00:57:47for example

00:57:48maybe you'll

00:57:48find one

00:57:49we don't

00:57:50even have

00:57:51enough

00:57:51pre-marriage

00:57:52courses

00:57:53in English

00:57:54but inshaAllah

00:57:55with all

00:57:55of your

00:57:56doa

00:57:56you know

00:57:57Al-Qadim

00:57:57might have

00:57:58one soon

00:57:58so

00:57:59the outcome

00:58:02positive outcome

00:58:02from a

00:58:03conference like

00:58:04this

00:58:04what do you

00:58:05see

00:58:06what do you

00:58:06hope

00:58:07how can

00:58:08you guide

00:58:08this

00:58:08I think

00:58:13communication

00:58:15is very

00:58:15important

00:58:15I mean

00:58:16I'll just

00:58:16share very

00:58:16briefly

00:58:17two things

00:58:18I mean

00:58:18one

00:58:19you know

00:58:20when I

00:58:21you know

00:58:23when you

00:58:24officially

00:58:24register

00:58:25as a

00:58:25Muslim

00:58:25in Malaysia

00:58:26you have

00:58:27to go

00:58:27to a

00:58:28course

00:58:28right

00:58:29and so

00:58:30I went

00:58:31for the

00:58:31course

00:58:31weekend

00:58:32course

00:58:32it was

00:58:33run

00:58:33by one

00:58:34of the

00:58:34organizations

00:58:35and

00:58:36I felt

00:58:38completely

00:58:38lost

00:58:39because

00:58:39the

00:58:40stuff

00:58:40they were

00:58:41talking

00:58:41about

00:58:41the

00:58:42surahs

00:58:42everything

00:58:43in Arabic

00:58:43and you

00:58:44know

00:58:44and then

00:58:45I asked

00:58:45around

00:58:46the other

00:58:46participants

00:58:46I said

00:58:47how long

00:58:47you been

00:58:47a Muslim

00:58:48oh

00:58:48three years

00:58:49four years

00:58:49this is my

00:58:49seventh time

00:58:50taking the

00:58:50course

00:58:51I'm the

00:58:51only guy

00:58:52who's

00:58:52you know

00:58:53actually

00:58:53genuinely

00:58:53fresh off

00:58:54the boat

00:58:54you know

00:58:55so

00:58:56I felt

00:58:57there was

00:58:57no real

00:58:58like

00:58:58entry

00:58:59level

00:59:00you know

00:59:02on ramp

00:59:03for it

00:59:04right

00:59:05I didn't

00:59:06know about

00:59:06Sheikh Hussein

00:59:07here

00:59:07at the time

00:59:07you didn't

00:59:08know about

00:59:08Al-Karib

00:59:08and NMC

00:59:09no I

00:59:09didn't

00:59:09so yeah

00:59:10maybe you

00:59:10need another

00:59:11billboard

00:59:11I don't

00:59:11know

00:59:11we need

00:59:13more support

00:59:13and donation

00:59:14inshallah

00:59:14so that

00:59:16it was

00:59:17a funny

00:59:17it was an

00:59:18odd experience

00:59:19it's an

00:59:19odd way

00:59:20in

00:59:20right

00:59:20so soon

00:59:21after

00:59:22then what's

00:59:24the other

00:59:24one

00:59:24so

00:59:28earlier

00:59:29this year

00:59:29I had

00:59:30the great

00:59:30fortune

00:59:31to

00:59:31undertake

00:59:33my

00:59:33Hajj

00:59:33and

00:59:34when I

00:59:36came back

00:59:36one of

00:59:38my

00:59:38colleagues

00:59:38actually

00:59:39she was

00:59:40on

00:59:40sabbatical

00:59:40she's

00:59:41Christian

00:59:41she's

00:59:42on

00:59:42sabbatical

00:59:42she wanted

00:59:43to meet

00:59:43up and

00:59:44have a

00:59:44coffee

00:59:44and I

00:59:45thought

00:59:45she wanted

00:59:45to talk

00:59:45about work

00:59:46you know

00:59:47what she

00:59:47wanted to

00:59:47talk to

00:59:48me

00:59:48about

00:59:48Hajj

00:59:49she wanted

00:59:50to ask

00:59:50me

00:59:50because she

00:59:51had

00:59:51previously

00:59:51had a

00:59:52conversation

00:59:52with another

00:59:53colleague

00:59:53who'd

00:59:54been on

00:59:54Hajj

00:59:54and she

00:59:55had asked

00:59:55her

00:59:55what was

00:59:56it like

00:59:56for you

00:59:57and we

00:59:58didn't talk

00:59:59about work

01:00:00at all

01:00:00we just

01:00:00spent

01:00:01about an

01:00:01hour

01:00:01asking me

01:00:04about the

01:00:04details

01:00:05and I

01:00:05think

01:00:06one of the

01:00:06most surprising

01:00:07things for

01:00:08her

01:00:08that really

01:00:09made an

01:00:09impact

01:00:09was

01:00:10understanding

01:00:11that whole

01:00:11process

01:00:12of

01:00:12Tawaf

01:00:13and

01:00:13Sai

01:00:13at the

01:00:14Hajj

01:00:14is very

01:00:15focused

01:00:16on Siti

01:00:16Hajj

01:00:16which is

01:00:18somewhat

01:00:18a figure

01:00:19shared in

01:00:19common

01:00:19with

01:00:20Christians

01:00:21and she

01:00:22was really

01:00:22blown away

01:00:23by the

01:00:23fact

01:00:23that

01:00:23Hajj

01:00:24is right

01:00:24at the

01:00:24center

01:00:24you're

01:00:25reenacting

01:00:25what Hajj

01:00:26went

01:00:26through

01:00:26her

01:00:27suffering

01:00:27her

01:00:28sense

01:00:28of

01:00:29loss

01:00:29perhaps

01:00:31abandonment

01:00:31the desperate

01:00:32search to

01:00:32take care

01:00:32of her

01:00:32child

01:00:33all these

01:00:33kind of

01:00:33things

01:00:33and she's

01:00:34like

01:00:35I never

01:00:35heard this

01:00:36before

01:00:36and she's

01:00:37not yet

01:00:37Muslim

01:00:38she's

01:00:39a Christian

01:00:40regular

01:00:43church

01:00:43growing

01:00:43Christian

01:00:44and she

01:00:45hadn't

01:00:46heard this

01:00:46kind of

01:00:46story

01:00:46before

01:00:47so

01:00:47it

01:00:50struck

01:00:50me

01:00:51unless

01:00:52people

01:00:54really

01:00:54go out

01:00:54and make

01:00:55the effort

01:00:55to find

01:00:56learn

01:00:57about

01:00:57Islam

01:00:58who's

01:01:00there

01:01:00to

01:01:00provide

01:01:01that

01:01:01information

01:01:02many

01:01:03organizations

01:01:04there

01:01:04to

01:01:04receive

01:01:04people

01:01:05who've

01:01:05already

01:01:05embraced

01:01:06Islam

01:01:07and

01:01:07obviously

01:01:09want to

01:01:09learn

01:01:09more

01:01:10but then

01:01:11there isn't

01:01:11enough

01:01:11information

01:01:12about

01:01:13what

01:01:14to be

01:01:16offered

01:01:16to others

01:01:16and

01:01:17therein

01:01:19lies part

01:01:19of the

01:01:19problem

01:01:19and the

01:01:20tensions

01:01:20in this

01:01:21country

01:01:21as well

01:01:22and also

01:01:23other

01:01:23countries

01:01:23is

01:01:24sometimes

01:01:25non-Muslims

01:01:29will look

01:01:30at the

01:01:30behavior

01:01:30of someone

01:01:31who appears

01:01:31to be

01:01:31Muslim

01:01:32or claims

01:01:33to be

01:01:33Muslim

01:01:33and so

01:01:34forth

01:01:34like that

01:01:34and that

01:01:35behavior

01:01:36can be

01:01:37quite

01:01:37aggressive

01:01:37belligerent

01:01:38alienating

01:01:39and it

01:01:41maybe

01:01:41doesn't

01:01:42set

01:01:42the

01:01:42best

01:01:42example

01:01:42and it

01:01:43leaves

01:01:43a bad

01:01:43impression

01:01:44about

01:01:45what

01:01:45they

01:01:45think

01:01:46Islam

01:01:46is

01:01:47so

01:01:48then we

01:01:49have to

01:01:49ask

01:01:49where are

01:01:50the efforts

01:01:50to leave

01:01:50a good

01:01:51impression

01:01:51to leave

01:01:52genuine

01:01:53knowledge

01:01:53right

01:01:54to impart

01:01:55bridges

01:01:56to build

01:01:57bridges

01:01:57of empathy

01:01:58as well

01:01:58which can

01:01:59be crossed

01:01:59this is one

01:02:00of the reasons

01:02:01why

01:02:01we're doing

01:02:02this kind

01:02:03of conferences

01:02:03in the hopes

01:02:04of inshallah

01:02:05it will

01:02:06create more

01:02:07awareness

01:02:08that

01:02:08you know

01:02:09Malay

01:02:10Muslim

01:02:10and Islam

01:02:11are three

01:02:11separate

01:02:12entities

01:02:12is that

01:02:13correct

01:02:13Shay

01:02:14and Zaid

01:02:15yes

01:02:18as a

01:02:18Muslim

01:02:18we all

01:02:19must be

01:02:20very clear

01:02:21this religion

01:02:22Islam

01:02:23is a

01:02:24very

01:02:24straightforward

01:02:25very

01:02:26clear

01:02:27religion

01:02:27you cannot

01:02:29get confused

01:02:30by right

01:02:30so I

01:02:32would

01:02:32highly

01:02:33recommend

01:02:33to every

01:02:34one of us

01:02:35who are

01:02:35here today

01:02:36anytime

01:02:37when you

01:02:38want to

01:02:38talk about

01:02:39Islam

01:02:39to anybody

01:02:41born Muslim

01:02:42the light

01:02:43reverts

01:02:45and also

01:02:46the not yet

01:02:47Muslim

01:02:47focus

01:02:49on the

01:02:50basic

01:02:50the foundation

01:02:52that we

01:02:53always

01:02:54introduce

01:02:55five

01:02:56six

01:02:57one

01:02:58that is

01:02:59our foundation

01:03:00don't forget

01:03:02to just

01:03:03focus on

01:03:04five

01:03:05pillar of

01:03:05Islam

01:03:06six

01:03:07six

01:03:07articles

01:03:07of

01:03:08faith

01:03:08one

01:03:09pillar

01:03:10of

01:03:10Islam

01:03:10if you

01:03:12still

01:03:12are not

01:03:13clear about

01:03:14the

01:03:14561

01:03:15please visit

01:03:16Al-Qadim

01:03:17we have

01:03:18561

01:03:19cafe

01:03:19you can

01:03:22enjoy

01:03:23the cafe

01:03:24there

01:03:24while you

01:03:25are drinking

01:03:25for 561

01:03:26to come

01:03:27in

01:03:27now

01:03:29after

01:03:31understanding

01:03:32the foundation

01:03:33most of

01:03:35your confusion

01:03:36is

01:03:38overcome

01:03:38everything

01:03:40become

01:03:41clearer

01:03:41and if

01:03:43you want

01:03:43to do

01:03:43that one

01:03:44I show

01:03:44you

01:03:45simple

01:03:45example

01:03:45like what

01:03:46brother

01:03:47was sharing

01:03:48with us

01:03:48about

01:03:48Hajj

01:03:49everybody

01:03:50go to

01:03:51Mecca

01:03:51or

01:03:53going for

01:03:54Hajj

01:03:54and Umrah

01:03:55what is

01:03:56the thing

01:03:56that you

01:03:57must

01:03:58bring back

01:03:59brothers and

01:04:00sisters

01:04:00please share

01:04:02with me

01:04:02one

01:04:03from the

01:04:03sister side

01:04:04what is

01:04:05the thing

01:04:05that you

01:04:06must

01:04:06bring home

01:04:07if you

01:04:08go to

01:04:08Hajj

01:04:09or Umrah

01:04:09sisters

01:04:10Zamzam

01:04:12selesai

01:04:14what is

01:04:16the next

01:04:16thing

01:04:16that

01:04:17the brother

01:04:18will make

01:04:19sure that

01:04:19you will

01:04:20bring home

01:04:21after

01:04:21Umrah

01:04:22or Hajj

01:04:23brother

01:04:23the second

01:04:24thing

01:04:24Zamzam

01:04:25clear

01:04:26second

01:04:27thing

01:04:27second

01:04:29thing

01:04:29brother

01:04:30kurma

01:04:32they said

01:04:33kurma

01:04:34mashaAllah

01:04:35yeah

01:04:37it's

01:04:38very true

01:04:39Zamzam

01:04:40makkah

01:04:41kurma

01:04:43medina

01:04:44always

01:04:46so now

01:04:48you have

01:04:49a friend

01:04:49like what

01:04:50the brother

01:04:52is sharing

01:04:52shall we

01:04:52say that

01:04:53they ask

01:04:54you about

01:04:54Hajj

01:04:55before you

01:04:56talk about

01:04:57your experience

01:04:58serve them

01:04:59zamzam

01:05:00please remember

01:05:04this is the

01:05:05only water

01:05:06that everybody

01:05:07will bring

01:05:08home

01:05:08you go to

01:05:09switzerland

01:05:10you go to

01:05:11any country

01:05:11iceland

01:05:12you don't

01:05:12bring water

01:05:13except

01:05:15makkah

01:05:16if the

01:05:18agent

01:05:18fail to

01:05:19give you

01:05:20zamzam

01:05:21he's going

01:05:23to have

01:05:23problem

01:05:23then

01:05:27kurma

01:05:28do that

01:05:29I

01:05:29this

01:05:30when my

01:05:31friend

01:05:31I give

01:05:32zamzam

01:05:32but of

01:05:33course

01:05:33when you

01:05:34give people

01:05:34zamzam

01:05:35water

01:05:35sisters

01:05:36you cannot

01:05:37give him

01:05:37like this

01:05:37cup

01:05:38you can't

01:05:42buy the

01:05:43small

01:05:44tiny cup

01:05:45because

01:05:47it's expensive

01:05:48water

01:05:48so

01:05:51let him

01:05:53taste

01:05:53zamzam

01:05:54water

01:05:54that is

01:05:55how you

01:05:56start

01:05:56your

01:05:56da'a

01:05:57and then

01:05:58kurma

01:05:59I do

01:06:01this to

01:06:01all my

01:06:02friends

01:06:02this

01:06:04kurma

01:06:05kurma

01:06:05medina

01:06:06and the

01:06:07prophet

01:06:08said

01:06:08let them

01:06:08know

01:06:09what the

01:06:09prophet

01:06:09said

01:06:10you eat

01:06:11seven

01:06:11pieces

01:06:12of

01:06:12kurma

01:06:12every

01:06:13day

01:06:13no

01:06:15black

01:06:15magic

01:06:16can

01:06:17get

01:06:18close

01:06:18to you

01:06:18you'll

01:06:19be

01:06:19protected

01:06:19from

01:06:20seer

01:06:21but again

01:06:23then they

01:06:24started

01:06:24can you

01:06:24give me

01:06:25more

01:06:25the

01:06:27politician

01:06:28the businessman

01:06:29can you

01:06:29give me

01:06:30more

01:06:30so I

01:06:30eat

01:06:30seven

01:06:31per day

01:06:31so I'll

01:06:33be protected

01:06:33from evil

01:06:34eye

01:06:35protected

01:06:36from black

01:06:36magic

01:06:37and so

01:06:37on

01:06:37but you

01:06:38can

01:06:39if you

01:06:39have

01:06:39by doing

01:06:41that

01:06:41you are

01:06:41doing

01:06:41a da'wah

01:06:42already

01:06:43it's not

01:06:44difficult

01:06:44to do

01:06:45da'wah

01:06:45through

01:06:46what you

01:06:47know

01:06:48and the

01:06:49prophet

01:06:49said

01:06:49whatever

01:06:53you have

01:06:54learned

01:06:54share

01:06:54with other

01:06:55people

01:06:55if you want

01:06:56to know

01:06:57more

01:06:57bring them

01:06:58to

01:06:58we will

01:06:59hold up

01:07:00for you

01:07:00so may

01:07:01Allah

01:07:02make all

01:07:03of us

01:07:04be

01:07:05a good

01:07:06practicing

01:07:07Muslim

01:07:08to spread

01:07:09the word

01:07:10of Allah

01:07:10please

01:07:11remember

01:07:12when you

01:07:13leave

01:07:13this

01:07:13hall

01:07:14don't

01:07:15leave

01:07:16with

01:07:17no

01:07:17intention

01:07:18to

01:07:19spread

01:07:20the word

01:07:20of Allah

01:07:21just

01:07:22have

01:07:22the

01:07:22intention

01:07:23insha'Allah

01:07:24I can

01:07:25share

01:07:26the beauty

01:07:27of Islam

01:07:28at least

01:07:29561

01:07:30to my

01:07:31fellow

01:07:32friend

01:07:32can we

01:07:32do that

01:07:33sister

01:07:33insha'Allah

01:07:35sisters

01:07:35I only hear

01:07:36Ani say

01:07:37insha'Allah

01:07:37the sisters

01:07:39can we

01:07:39do that

01:07:39yeah

01:07:40you have

01:07:41to express

01:07:42it

01:07:42insha'Allah

01:07:43brothers

01:07:43insha'Allah

01:07:45that is

01:07:48the expression

01:07:48we want

01:07:49from all

01:07:49of you

01:07:50you must

01:07:51yes

01:07:51first

01:07:52I don't

01:07:53yeah

01:07:53maybe

01:07:54that means

01:07:56you are

01:07:56not sure

01:07:57of yourself

01:07:57okay

01:07:58insha'Allah

01:08:00we are

01:08:01ready

01:08:01to act

01:08:02and move

01:08:03forward

01:08:03to build

01:08:04and unite

01:08:07the nation

01:08:08to be

01:08:10stronger

01:08:10beautiful

01:08:12insha'Allah

01:08:13okay

01:08:13we're going

01:08:13to close

01:08:14the panel

01:08:15with one

01:08:16question each

01:08:17for

01:08:18Shaolong

01:08:19and Zaid

01:08:19very quick

01:08:19one

01:08:20Shaolong

01:08:21you're in

01:08:21research

01:08:21and Zaid

01:08:22you're doing

01:08:23AI

01:08:24you know

01:08:25if we look

01:08:26back

01:08:26Islam

01:08:27had its

01:08:27golden era

01:08:28years ago

01:08:29how

01:08:30can

01:08:30that

01:08:31same

01:08:31spirit

01:08:32of

01:08:32research

01:08:33and

01:08:33innovation

01:08:34be used

01:08:35to strengthen

01:08:36Islam

01:08:36and bring

01:08:37it back

01:08:37to the

01:08:38golden

01:08:38days

01:08:38Zaid

01:08:40you want

01:08:40to start

01:08:41first

01:08:41insha'Allah

01:08:42thank you

01:08:43bismillah

01:08:44in one

01:08:45minute

01:08:45in one

01:08:46minute

01:08:47okay

01:08:47we've got

01:08:48to take

01:08:48Q&A

01:08:48okay

01:08:50Islam

01:08:53is

01:08:53ageless

01:08:54right

01:08:56through

01:08:57time

01:08:57we

01:08:58understand

01:08:58that

01:08:59Islam

01:09:00is

01:09:00relevant

01:09:01today

01:09:01as it

01:09:02was

01:09:021400

01:09:03and

01:09:04before

01:09:04right

01:09:05so

01:09:06Malaysia

01:09:09is a

01:09:09melting pot

01:09:10right now

01:09:10for

01:09:11development

01:09:12I think

01:09:16what we

01:09:17need

01:09:17today

01:09:18is

01:09:18more

01:09:19transparency

01:09:20in the

01:09:21way that

01:09:22we

01:09:22focus on

01:09:23development

01:09:23for

01:09:25example

01:09:25Zakat

01:09:27app

01:09:27that has

01:09:28transparency

01:09:29example

01:09:29and

01:09:31accessibility

01:09:33for everyone

01:09:34to have

01:09:34true

01:09:36information

01:09:36right

01:09:38because

01:09:39if you

01:09:40look at

01:09:40the pattern

01:09:41in today's

01:09:43social media

01:09:44people are

01:09:44always searching

01:09:45for truth

01:09:46people are

01:09:47always searching

01:09:48for transparency

01:09:49and if you look at

01:09:50comments

01:09:51you know

01:09:52that's happening

01:09:53it's always about

01:09:54these two things

01:09:55so building

01:09:56application

01:09:56that has meaning

01:09:57that would serve

01:09:59the community

01:10:00towards this

01:10:01that would be

01:10:01a really great start

01:10:03because most of

01:10:05most of our

01:10:06AI and

01:10:07development

01:10:08are always

01:10:08towards

01:10:09commercial

01:10:09gain

01:10:10right

01:10:11but we have to

01:10:11look at

01:10:12the other part

01:10:13also as well

01:10:13and we look

01:10:15to our

01:10:15leaders

01:10:16in

01:10:17IT sectors

01:10:20you know

01:10:20for them to

01:10:21initiate

01:10:21such

01:10:22initiatives

01:10:23for

01:10:24the

01:10:25masyarakat

01:10:26okay

01:10:26thank you

01:10:27inshallah

01:10:27a quick one

01:10:29and I'll get

01:10:30somebody to

01:10:30Q&A later

01:10:31okay

01:10:31so a big part

01:10:32of the work

01:10:33I do

01:10:33is

01:10:33what

01:10:34could be

01:10:35called

01:10:35industrial

01:10:35policy

01:10:36which is

01:10:36basically

01:10:36the reasons

01:10:38behind

01:10:38the wealth

01:10:39of nations

01:10:39and

01:10:40you know

01:10:41the success

01:10:43and wealth

01:10:43of nations

01:10:43is an issue

01:10:44that has

01:10:44obsessed

01:10:45not just

01:10:46Muslims

01:10:46but many

01:10:46others as

01:10:47well

01:10:47and while

01:10:48we may

01:10:48look back

01:10:49and understand

01:10:50history

01:10:50that's been

01:10:51suppressed

01:10:51we also

01:10:52have to

01:10:52understand

01:10:53the challenges

01:10:54of the

01:10:55present

01:10:55that prevent

01:10:55us from

01:10:56reaching

01:10:57greater

01:10:57prosperity

01:10:58and

01:10:59greater

01:11:00economic

01:11:01justice

01:11:01and inclusion

01:11:02and one

01:11:04of the

01:11:04challenges

01:11:05also that

01:11:05lies ahead

01:11:06in the

01:11:06present

01:11:07is the

01:11:08issue of

01:11:08leadership

01:11:08and while

01:11:10many Muslim

01:11:11countries have

01:11:12been blessed

01:11:12with petrochemical

01:11:14resources and oil

01:11:16and gas

01:11:16resources

01:11:16that's led to a lot

01:11:18of wealth

01:11:18it hasn't always

01:11:20come hand to hand

01:11:21with good leadership

01:11:21but then I think

01:11:24the question now

01:11:24lies how can that

01:11:26wealth be spent

01:11:26well

01:11:27how can it

01:11:28build a better

01:11:28future

01:11:29how do you

01:11:29deal with

01:11:30the challenge

01:11:30of climate

01:11:30change

01:11:31and these

01:11:34are moral

01:11:34questions

01:11:35they're economic

01:11:37questions

01:11:38and they're

01:11:38questions fundamentally

01:11:39about leadership

01:11:40if you don't have

01:11:41good leadership

01:11:42and we've often

01:11:43suffered from a

01:11:44lack of good

01:11:44leadership

01:11:44then it will

01:11:46be very hard

01:11:47to move

01:11:47people collectively

01:11:48towards a better

01:11:49future

01:11:49so we have

01:11:50to understand

01:11:51not just

01:11:51economics

01:11:52but also

01:11:52leadership

01:11:53as well

01:11:53food for thought

01:11:54for everybody

01:11:55thank you so

01:11:55much for that

01:11:56before we let

01:11:57go of the

01:11:58panelists

01:11:58I'm going to

01:11:58pass this

01:11:59back to

01:12:00Brother Fayyad

01:12:01if you could

01:12:01organize the

01:12:02Q&A

01:12:03I need to

01:12:03excuse myself

01:12:04for a while

01:12:04thank you

01:12:08very much

01:12:08Sister Anis

01:12:09for that

01:12:10moderating

01:12:11that wonderful

01:12:12discussion

01:12:12so now we

01:12:13will have a

01:12:13Q&A session

01:12:14my brothers

01:12:15and sisters

01:12:16if you have

01:12:17any questions

01:12:17raise your

01:12:18hand

01:12:19and our

01:12:20ushers will

01:12:21come to you

01:12:21with a

01:12:22microphone

01:12:22direct your

01:12:24question to a

01:12:25speaker

01:12:25and then

01:12:26you can

01:12:26ask the

01:12:26question

01:12:26we have

01:12:27one

01:12:27sister

01:12:28here

01:12:28so

01:12:30inshallah

01:12:30there's

01:12:33also a

01:12:33brother

01:12:33there

01:12:34so

01:12:35we'll

01:12:35start

01:12:35with

01:12:35the

01:12:36sister

01:12:36here

01:12:36and

01:12:36then

01:12:37the

01:12:37brother

01:12:37right

01:12:38over there

01:12:38right after

01:12:39inshallah

01:12:40thank you

01:12:42assalamualaikum

01:12:43actually

01:12:46these questions

01:12:46it's

01:12:47perhaps

01:12:48she can

01:12:49answer to

01:12:50these

01:12:50questions

01:12:50it's more

01:12:52of like

01:12:53wrap up

01:12:54of today's

01:12:54sessions

01:12:55to conclude

01:12:56so

01:12:57for many

01:12:58reverts

01:12:58that feel

01:12:59caught in

01:13:00between

01:13:01India

01:13:01corporate

01:13:02worlds

01:13:02nowadays

01:13:03with

01:13:04not yet

01:13:05Muslims

01:13:06colleagues

01:13:06or friends

01:13:07seeing them

01:13:08as a

01:13:08change

01:13:09and

01:13:10whereas

01:13:10the

01:13:11born

01:13:11Muslims

01:13:11or the

01:13:12Malay

01:13:12colleagues

01:13:13will

01:13:13think

01:13:14that

01:13:14these

01:13:15reverts

01:13:16are

01:13:16maybe

01:13:17to

01:13:17either

01:13:18too

01:13:18pious

01:13:18or

01:13:19not

01:13:19Muslims

01:13:20enough

01:13:21right

01:13:22so

01:13:22in a

01:13:23climate

01:13:23where

01:13:23even

01:13:23religion

01:13:24can

01:13:24be

01:13:25such

01:13:25dramatic

01:13:26how

01:13:27can

01:13:27what

01:13:28can

01:13:29you

01:13:29advise

01:13:30to

01:13:30the

01:13:30reverts

01:13:31to

01:13:31be

01:13:31more

01:13:31focused

01:13:32on

01:13:32their

01:13:32deen

01:13:32while

01:13:33finding

01:13:34belonging

01:13:34in

01:13:35the

01:13:36current

01:13:36communities

01:13:37in

01:13:38Malaysia

01:13:38and

01:13:39in

01:13:39the

01:13:39workplace

01:13:40environment

01:13:41especially

01:13:41thank you

01:13:42thank you

01:13:43sister

01:13:43for the

01:13:44question

01:13:44can we

01:13:45have

01:13:45the

01:13:45brother

01:13:45to

01:13:46give

01:13:47his

01:13:47question

01:13:47first

01:13:48before

01:13:48we

01:13:48let

01:13:49the

01:13:49panelists

01:13:49answer

01:13:50this

01:13:55especially

01:13:56to

01:13:56brothers

01:13:57I

01:14:00couldn't

01:14:00recognize

01:14:00you

01:14:01when I

01:14:01I've

01:14:02seen

01:14:02you

01:14:02before

01:14:03when I

01:14:04go to

01:14:04the

01:14:04internet

01:14:06and I

01:14:07see

01:14:07hey

01:14:07this

01:14:07looks

01:14:08younger

01:14:08it

01:14:09looks

01:14:10different

01:14:10now

01:14:11brother

01:14:11this

01:14:12is

01:14:12a

01:14:12question

01:14:12for

01:14:13you

01:14:13brother

01:14:13it's

01:14:16about

01:14:16the

01:14:16role

01:14:16the

01:14:17future

01:14:17role

01:14:17of

01:14:18reverts

01:14:18in

01:14:19Malaysia

01:14:20now

01:14:21should

01:14:21Malaysian

01:14:22society

01:14:23gives

01:14:25more

01:14:25space

01:14:26to

01:14:28reverse

01:14:28voice

01:14:30in

01:14:31shaping

01:14:32up

01:14:32discourse

01:14:33on

01:14:34religion

01:14:35and

01:14:35unity

01:14:36that's

01:14:37one

01:14:37two

01:14:38how

01:14:39might

01:14:39their

01:14:40perspective

01:14:40transform

01:14:42the

01:14:42way

01:14:43Malaysian

01:14:44understand

01:14:45unity

01:14:46in

01:14:46diversity

01:14:47that's

01:14:50my

01:14:50question

01:14:50thank

01:14:51you

01:14:51brother

01:14:51thank

01:14:52you

01:14:52brothers

01:14:53so we

01:14:54have

01:14:54the

01:14:54question

01:14:54from

01:14:55the

01:14:55sister

01:14:55asking

01:14:56about

01:14:56what

01:14:56can

01:14:57how

01:14:58should

01:14:58the

01:14:59reverts

01:14:59adopt

01:15:00certain

01:15:01kind

01:15:01of

01:15:01behavior

01:15:02or

01:15:02what

01:15:03kind

01:15:03of

01:15:03things

01:15:04they

01:15:04can

01:15:04do

01:15:04in

01:15:05relation

01:15:05to

01:15:05today's

01:15:06content

01:15:06especially

01:15:08in the

01:15:08corporate

01:15:09world

01:15:09and

01:15:10for

01:15:10the

01:15:10brother

01:15:10how

01:15:11can

01:15:12what

01:15:12kind

01:15:13of

01:15:13transformation

01:15:13can

01:15:14be seen

01:15:14in the

01:15:14diversity

01:15:15with

01:15:15the

01:15:16reverts

01:15:16being

01:15:16involved

01:15:16in

01:15:17this

01:15:18endeavor

01:15:19did I

01:15:20get that

01:15:20question

01:15:21correct

01:15:21brothers

01:15:21and

01:15:22sisters

01:15:22okay

01:15:23inshaallah

01:15:24so

01:15:24let's

01:15:25have

01:15:25Dr.

01:15:27Sheh

01:15:27Hussein

01:15:28to answer

01:15:28first

01:15:29and maybe

01:15:29brother

01:15:30Zaid

01:15:31can also

01:15:32chip in

01:15:32as well

01:15:33as well

01:15:33as brother

01:15:34Shaolong

01:15:34inshaallah

01:15:34I'm not

01:15:38so clear

01:15:39about the

01:15:39question

01:15:39from the

01:15:40sisters

01:15:40can you

01:15:43just

01:15:44repeat

01:15:44sisters

01:15:46yes

01:15:50sure

01:15:50she

01:15:50sorry

01:15:52to make

01:15:52it

01:15:52clear

01:15:52so

01:15:53for us

01:15:55for

01:15:56reverts

01:15:56that

01:15:57are

01:15:57involved

01:15:57in

01:15:58the

01:15:58corporate

01:15:58world

01:15:59okay

01:15:59they

01:16:01are

01:16:01often

01:16:02more

01:16:02maybe

01:16:04you

01:16:04can

01:16:04advise

01:16:05for

01:16:05the

01:16:05reverts

01:16:06on

01:16:06how

01:16:06they

01:16:07can

01:16:07focus

01:16:07on

01:16:07their

01:16:08deans

01:16:08but

01:16:09at

01:16:09the

01:16:09same

01:16:10time

01:16:10to

01:16:11feel

01:16:12belong

01:16:13with

01:16:14the

01:16:14societies

01:16:15and

01:16:15also

01:16:16in

01:16:18the

01:16:18working

01:16:18environment

01:16:19because

01:16:19they

01:16:20are

01:16:20often

01:16:20seen

01:16:21and

01:16:21caught

01:16:21in

01:16:22between

01:16:22maybe

01:16:23too

01:16:23pious

01:16:24maybe

01:16:25not

01:16:26Muslim

01:16:26enough

01:16:27but

01:16:27in

01:16:28the

01:16:28corporate

01:16:28world

01:16:28there

01:16:29is

01:16:29always

01:16:29a

01:16:30lot

01:16:30of

01:16:31confusions

01:16:31in

01:16:32there

01:16:32so

01:16:33how

01:16:33can

01:16:33they

01:16:33be

01:16:33more

01:16:34focused

01:16:34and

01:16:35to

01:16:36be

01:16:36better

01:16:36perhaps

01:16:37okay

01:16:37the

01:16:39question

01:16:40is

01:16:40about

01:16:40we

01:16:41in

01:16:42a

01:16:42corporate

01:16:42world

01:16:43communities

01:16:44then

01:16:45you

01:16:45encounter

01:16:46two

01:16:46group

01:16:47of

01:16:47people

01:16:47other

01:16:49will

01:16:49say

01:16:49that

01:16:50you

01:16:50are

01:16:50too

01:16:50extreme

01:16:51then

01:16:52one

01:16:53party

01:16:53will

01:16:54say

01:16:54that

01:16:54you

01:16:55are

01:16:55not

01:16:55so

01:16:57Islamic

01:16:58not

01:16:59enough

01:16:59now

01:17:01this

01:17:01kind

01:17:02of

01:17:02feeling

01:17:02will

01:17:03come

01:17:03on

01:17:03and

01:17:04off

01:17:04it's

01:17:04a

01:17:04struggle

01:17:05that

01:17:06all

01:17:07rivers

01:17:07will

01:17:08encounter

01:17:08the

01:17:10expectation

01:17:10from

01:17:11the

01:17:11born

01:17:12Muslim

01:17:13we

01:17:14don't

01:17:15know

01:17:15where

01:17:16they

01:17:16are

01:17:16coming

01:17:17from

01:17:17they

01:17:18may

01:17:19want

01:17:19you

01:17:19to

01:17:19be

01:17:20like

01:17:20them

01:17:20or

01:17:21better

01:17:21than

01:17:21them

01:17:22for

01:17:23the

01:17:23not

01:17:24yet

01:17:24Muslim

01:17:24suddenly

01:17:25our

01:17:25lifestyle

01:17:26changed

01:17:27before

01:17:28we

01:17:29are

01:17:29so

01:17:29free

01:17:29now

01:17:31we

01:17:31have

01:17:31all

01:17:31the

01:17:31boundaries

01:17:32that

01:17:33we

01:17:33have

01:17:33to

01:17:33follow

01:17:34we

01:17:34have

01:17:34to

01:17:35just

01:17:37become

01:17:38a

01:17:38simple

01:17:39basic

01:17:41practicing

01:17:42Muslim

01:17:42just

01:17:45do

01:17:45the

01:17:46minimum

01:17:46what

01:17:48is

01:17:49halal

01:17:49is

01:17:49halal

01:17:50haram

01:17:50is

01:17:50haram

01:17:51all

01:17:52the

01:17:52do

01:17:52and

01:17:52don't

01:17:53the

01:17:53minimum

01:17:54when

01:17:55you

01:17:55eat

01:17:55when

01:17:55you

01:17:56drink

01:17:56when

01:17:56you

01:17:56meet

01:17:57one

01:17:57another

01:17:57when

01:17:58you

01:17:58do

01:17:58business

01:17:58with

01:17:59anybody

01:17:59when

01:18:00you

01:18:00entrust

01:18:01with

01:18:01anything

01:18:02give

01:18:02them

01:18:03the

01:18:03best

01:18:03be

01:18:03the

01:18:04minimum

01:18:04practicing

01:18:05Muslim

01:18:065-6-1

01:18:08that is

01:18:08the

01:18:08minimum

01:18:09what

01:18:10people

01:18:11want

01:18:11to

01:18:11commend

01:18:12more

01:18:12than

01:18:12that

01:18:13you

01:18:13don't

01:18:13have

01:18:14to

01:18:14worry

01:18:14at

01:18:15least

01:18:15you

01:18:16have

01:18:16done

01:18:17your

01:18:17part

01:18:17you

01:18:19cannot

01:18:19please

01:18:19everybody

01:18:20sisters

01:18:21you

01:18:22cannot

01:18:23please

01:18:23everyone

01:18:25so

01:18:26lastly

01:18:28I would

01:18:29like to

01:18:29remind

01:18:29every

01:18:30one

01:18:30of

01:18:30us

01:18:31remember

01:18:33Islam

01:18:35is

01:18:36always

01:18:37relevant

01:18:38at

01:18:38all

01:18:39time

01:18:39number

01:18:40one

01:18:40Islam

01:18:42is

01:18:43rational

01:18:44Islam

01:18:46is

01:18:47logical

01:18:48and

01:18:49Islam

01:18:50is

01:18:51practical

01:18:51four

01:18:53elements

01:18:54you must

01:18:55remember

01:18:56to be

01:18:57a good

01:18:58Muslim

01:18:58do

01:18:59your

01:18:59level

01:19:00best

01:19:00as long

01:19:01as

01:19:02on your

01:19:02foundation

01:19:03then you

01:19:04don't have

01:19:05to worry

01:19:05about what

01:19:06people

01:19:06want to

01:19:07say

01:19:07just

01:19:08move on

01:19:09I hope

01:19:10the simple

01:19:12example

01:19:12I show

01:19:13you

01:19:13will make

01:19:14you

01:19:15have

01:19:18peace

01:19:18and don't

01:19:19worry

01:19:19I know

01:19:20sometimes

01:19:20you keep

01:19:20on

01:19:21want to

01:19:21entertain

01:19:22A

01:19:22then you

01:19:23have

01:19:23another

01:19:23problem

01:19:24from B

01:19:24and so

01:19:25on

01:19:26just

01:19:26please

01:19:27Allah

01:19:27the rest

01:19:28you

01:19:28leave it

01:19:29to

01:19:29Allah

01:19:29okay

01:19:30sis

01:19:31and

01:19:33if you

01:19:33still

01:19:33have

01:19:34more

01:19:35problem

01:19:35with us

01:19:37in

01:19:38Al-Qadim

01:19:38Zakat

01:19:39Allah

01:19:39Thank you

01:19:41very much

01:19:41for answering

01:19:42that question

01:19:42Brother

01:19:44Zaid

01:19:44you

01:19:44actually

01:19:45worked

01:19:46as a

01:19:47country

01:19:47director

01:19:47at

01:19:48Softanger

01:19:48so maybe

01:19:49you could

01:19:49also

01:19:49provide

01:19:50some

01:19:50context

01:19:50for

01:19:51this

01:19:51question

01:19:51how

01:19:52to

01:19:52balance

01:19:53out

01:19:53being

01:19:54a

01:19:54revert

01:19:54in a

01:19:55corporate

01:19:55world

01:19:55just a

01:19:56little

01:19:56bit

01:19:56insha

01:19:57Allah

01:19:57I think

01:19:59Sheikh

01:20:00has put

01:20:01it in

01:20:01the most

01:20:02beautiful

01:20:02way

01:20:02561

01:20:03just

01:20:06do what

01:20:07you can

01:20:07which is

01:20:08very

01:20:09important

01:20:09and

01:20:10everything

01:20:11he said

01:20:11is

01:20:11perfect

01:20:12Alhamdulillah

01:20:14thank

01:20:18thank you

01:20:18very much

01:20:18brother

01:20:19so now

01:20:20let's

01:20:20proceed

01:20:20with

01:20:21the

01:20:21question

01:20:21from

01:20:21the

01:20:21brothers

01:20:22brother

01:20:22how would

01:20:25you

01:20:25respond

01:20:25to that

01:20:26question

01:20:27thank you

01:20:30for the

01:20:31question

01:20:31I think

01:20:31you know

01:20:33you can't always

01:20:34expect

01:20:35space to be

01:20:35given to

01:20:36you

01:20:36if you're

01:20:38lucky

01:20:38you get it

01:20:40sometimes you

01:20:41have to take

01:20:41it

01:20:43sometimes

01:20:43like me

01:20:44I prefer to

01:20:45live

01:20:45I'm actually quite shy

01:20:46I prefer to live a quiet life

01:20:47you know

01:20:48I've gladly accepted this invitation

01:20:50to come and speak here

01:20:52I'm normally more comfortable talking about

01:20:54policy economics

01:20:55all this kind of stuff

01:20:56right

01:20:56but at the same time

01:20:59you know

01:21:00I'm a Malaysian

01:21:01I live in this country

01:21:03I share it with all the other

01:21:04what 32, 33 million people

01:21:06who are here

01:21:08I think if there is a door open

01:21:11then you step through it

01:21:12and

01:21:13you are invited to speak

01:21:17then you say something

01:21:18and you make sure that you say it sensibly

01:21:20respectfully

01:21:21we have too many

01:21:23silly things that are said

01:21:25in this country

01:21:25and words that hurt

01:21:27so

01:21:28I think anyone who's given the chance

01:21:32and going back to what I said earlier

01:21:33you know

01:21:34it's good to communicate experiences

01:21:35and good to communicate positive experiences

01:21:38and even

01:21:39I would say from the previous panel

01:21:41it's good to communicate experiences

01:21:44that maybe have been

01:21:45you know painful as well

01:21:47because I think that helps us understand

01:21:50you know we're Asians

01:21:52most of us are Asians

01:21:53you know

01:21:53it's hard dealing with Asian families

01:21:55right

01:21:56they're very demanding

01:21:57what more

01:21:59if you begin to stray from the boundaries

01:22:01of what they consider to be

01:22:03you know

01:22:03normal or acceptable

01:22:05and so forth

01:22:05but I think

01:22:06we have to understand

01:22:08that fundamentally

01:22:09you know

01:22:11what binds the family together

01:22:12is love

01:22:13right

01:22:13and even if

01:22:15we were alienated

01:22:16from our family

01:22:17the way that we can get back to them

01:22:19is also through love

01:22:20as well

01:22:20but that may require

01:22:22many difficult conversations

01:22:23it may require

01:22:24a lot of patience

01:22:25a lot of sava

01:22:26because maybe it can take years

01:22:28you have to just wait

01:22:29for that right moment

01:22:30you know

01:22:30to seize it

01:22:33you never know

01:22:36but I think you have to be open

01:22:37to it

01:22:38I think that's all I can say on that

01:22:41Alhamdulillah

01:22:42thank you very much

01:22:44Brother Yin Xiaolong

01:22:45and all panelists

01:22:46in fact

01:22:46for the wonderful discussion

01:22:49I think that's all I can say

01:22:53I think that's all I can say

01:22:54I think that's all I can say

01:23:19thank you very much

01:23:20thank you

01:23:49thank you

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