- 5 weeks ago
A Malaysian physicist at the forefront of particle physics shares insights on how frontier science shapes high-stakes decision-making, drives innovation in AI and data, and builds talent for the future. Tonight at 9pm.
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03:08yang penting dan mengenai bahagian yang penting dan mengenai bahagian yang penting.
03:15Dan mengenai bahagian yang penting dan mengenai bahagian yang penting.
03:20Dan itu semua yang penting dan diambat.
03:22Tapi, di tambahan, kita, of course, ada hal yang terjadi,
03:26jahat yang terjadi, dan juga jahat yang penting.
03:31Jadi, kita perlu bergantung dengan beberapa contohnya.
03:35, pertama kita perlu melihat software dan algoritm kita yang kita write thoroughly dalam bahagian.
03:40Kita akan melakukan daging, weekly, monthly, dan kemudian kita.
03:43Dan, kemudian kita berpabila, kita perlu mempunyai banyak monitoring
03:48tentang tentang relevanan metrik.
03:50Kita harus berdua apa yang beradaan dalam bahagian yang terjadi
03:53ke dalam bahagian yang penting yang telah kita memberikan.
03:56Is it okay?
03:58Do we need to make corrections?
03:59We need to have a team on standby
04:01untuk melihat masalah dan kemudian reaksi dengan pre-planned strategi
04:06apabila sesuatu yang berlaku.
04:09Ya, ada banyak perkara yang kita boleh belajar daripada eksperimen ini
04:12kerana anda dan pasal anda berjalan dengan banyak perkara yang terkenal
04:16dan perkara yang sama juga berlaku untuk perniagaan juga.
04:21Bagaimana anda dan pasal anda mempunyai kepercayaan yang terkenal
04:26dan juga berjalan mengenai perkara yang terkenal
04:29dan jika anda mencuri untuk perkara tidak terkenal berlaku
04:32bagaimana anda mengurangkannya?
04:34Jadi, ketika kami mencari kepercayaan beri-punyai kepercayaan,
04:38itu penting untuk kita tidak hanya menjadikan kepercayaan.
04:40Kita perlu mencadikan kepercayaan dengan menurutkan
04:43bagaimana kita tahu yang tidak percaya atau bagaimana kita tahu
04:47bagaimana kita mempercaya kepercayaan kepercayaan dalam kepercayaan.
04:51Jadi, kala-kala mempercayaan di dalam percaya dan penurutusan yang kami tahu
04:57We have procedures to assess how much the conditions we are assuming may vary, and we filter that into our final results.
05:09Another aspect is called blind analysis.
05:12So we are not allowed to look at the data because it could bias us before we have constructed our full strategy.
05:18So we build a strategy, we find ways to validate that we think we have understood well all the unknown things that we are taking into account,
05:26and only then do we look at the data to understand whether we were being sensible.
05:31The data has to be the judge and of course then if we can repeat the analysis later on with different data sets
05:36then we can correct for anything that we've done wrong.
05:38That's of course the essence of the scientific method.
05:41But we are, on the one hand, as you alluded to, we are optimising for the things we know about
05:46and we think that we've been told we should expect, but we're always hoping for the unexpected
05:50because that is where we actually learn something.
05:53I want to ask about what can we learn from physicists especially.
05:59Could the way physicists handle uncertainty be useful for business leaders today, especially our policy makers,
06:05in dealing with economic shocks or AI disruption or uncertainty in that sense?
06:10I'm sure they can. I mean, in fact, I'm sure they do because it's such a quantitative science now.
06:16and even the data collection, the data analysis that is being done, I'm sure that a lot of things are being applied.
06:25I think the difference perhaps may be in what our emphasis is because we are looking to really quantify our knowledge.
06:32We want to be very clear about the limits of that knowledge and only then can we try to learn from that and improve our theories.
06:42So in a similar way, I suppose if one thing sticks to the long-term view more than immediately eyeing short-term profits,
06:51then that sort of refinement of the models and say conservatism in the extrapolations may be obvious.
07:01Yeah. I want to talk about what can we learn from CERN because basically what can Malaysia learn from how CERN turns scientific knowledge into real-world technology and also innovation?
07:13What can we learn from that particular subject?
07:16Okay. Well, it's also a matter of sometimes expecting the unexpected because we're not, for many of the projects that we're defining,
07:30we're not focused on the applications. The core science is in general not going to be applicable in a hundred years, in a thousand years, I don't think,
07:40because they're so far removed from our normal scales. However, what we need to develop is always the technical capability to do that science
07:49and it's there that the spin-offs arise. Sometimes in the, perhaps in the application of the algorithms,
07:54we're now looking into ways to do extremely fast machine learning and hardware and so on. There maybe we can push the boundaries a little bit.
08:01Yeah. And also at the same time, many industries are talking about, you know, data-driven culture in that sense.
08:08in that sense. But of course, the same goes with the scientific research as well. But how is data really used in science?
08:15And how can Malaysia, you know, basically replicate that mindset in its companies?
08:21Okay. Now, I think it is also true at the same time that business, some business applications are actually driving the edges of data processing a little bit beyond the scales that we used to do in academia.
08:37But again, right, we're emphasizing the key lessons that come from the data in some fundamental sense and not always looking for the immediate applicability.
08:57Again, actually, maybe another point is that we always have to be very skeptical of the data.
09:03We have to be challenging our assumptions and assessing where the data may indicate something.
09:11But because of instrumental effects or theoretical conditions that we haven't taken into account fully, our initial interpretation may be wrong.
09:19And it takes a bit of reflection to see whether we can actually tease out what's under that.
09:25Let's talk about Malaysia and also the mega science in that sense, because you are from Penang.
09:31And of course, this is the best achievement for Malaysia as well, given your achievements.
09:40What can Malaysia basically do to help, you know, youngsters, young researchers, you know, to reach places like CERN?
09:48Right.
09:49Right.
09:50I think let's already make it clear that in fact, Malaysia is contributing, not just from Malaysians overseas, but groups here are involved already.
09:59I think on the one hand, those people need more exposure because that cultural appreciation that we have as a society, I think it's very strong.
10:07And telling those stories is really crucial to spreading the inspiration and giving them more support.
10:15At the same time, of course, you know, those of us working overseas, we all have a strong connection to home.
10:23And therefore, beyond just sharing our stories, reaching out to us and looking for collaborations is a way to get involved.
10:33But again, I would stress that it's not a matter of trying to enter these various fields, right?
10:42We are already there and we should just be looking to see how we can build our impact up.
10:47You mentioned that we do have the talents and also expertise locally works with the global players as well.
10:54But how can our universities, you know, better or improve further in terms of connect to the global research ecosystems?
11:00I think we need to look for where our own capacities are strongest.
11:07For example, well, I don't have concrete examples here, but the concept being, you know, we can either leverage local competences
11:17or if there are areas where we can study things of regional relevance, but of global impact, then I think that's the key.
11:27Identifying those places where we can make a difference and then starting to focus the efforts there.
11:33Do we have that in your opinion?
11:35So if we take, for example, I mean, this is drifting more into industry, but that's tightly coupled with academic collaborations, right?
11:48Is in the tech arena and the manufacturing of, say, semiconductors in Penang, for one thing.
11:55But also, I mean, we have a great knowledge of things like our local biology, whether it's in pharmaceuticals or in epidemiology of the endemic diseases.
12:08I think those are some examples in a variety of fields.
12:25Let's talk about the local researchers hurdles or challenges in that sense.
12:29This is just to get your point of view because we do have good researchers.
12:33Because I've talked to some of them at our local universities, but they are facing difficulties and also challenges in terms of getting funding of visibility,
12:42the storytelling that you mentioned just now or lack of collaboration in that sense.
12:47But which of these three that you think is crucial for us to focus on?
12:53I think they're intertwined.
12:57But maybe we need to start with the visibility because the visibility promotes connectivity.
13:03And it also then helps that one can illustrate the local support.
13:11and that should then feed up to those who hold the purse strings, right?
13:16Because it's not just a matter of, say, a single cash injection.
13:21It's really a matter of sustained, focused investment in these that will allow them to build up and have the impact.
13:28Because none of this is built even in a single generation.
13:32It's a long term process to develop the capacity.
13:36The visibility, what can we basically do or learn the best practices from other countries?
13:42Right.
13:43I'm sure we're actually doing that already.
13:46Sending people overseas on scholarships, whether at the start of the university careers or partway through.
13:54I think actually the support for this is there.
13:57I've spoken to people here, no others in my own career and elsewhere.
14:02I think that's strong.
14:04What needs to then be done is the follow-up to ensure that once these skills have been picked up,
14:12there is then support with the resources needed to continually exploit them
14:19and then also share with other groups here.
14:23And even I believe we do a good job with then sharing with the region.
14:28I want to talk about the role of GLCs in terms of co-invest in scientific partnership in Malaysia.
14:38And also at the same time moving forward to push further in terms of the R&D.
14:45Because I've talked to some of the researchers in local universities because they said a lot of our R&Ds
14:50who actually can solve the real problem ended up at the bookshelf.
14:55So we want it to be commercialised in terms of that.
14:58but how do you see the role of GLC or even the private sector for this?
15:04Yeah, I think that's a very good question because of course in academia a lot of our culture is very centred on grant funding.
15:16and that's typically from the public sector and from the government.
15:24So it's not entirely unknown.
15:32For example, actually at CERN we recently received a very large support for this,
15:39for this what's called a next generation trigger program from Eric Schmidt from Google.
15:46That's in effect actually philanthropy.
15:49It's giving without, well with the expectation that we achieve something,
15:53but not a transactional project in the sense that a return on investment directly is wanted.
16:02And for some of the big breakthroughs, I believe that mentality is needed.
16:10But then of course we have to balance that against the immediate needs of the country, etc.
16:18So perhaps it's a matter of finding the balance where one can tie the potential gains from these long term vision projects
16:31to things that we will clearly benefit from as they come to maturity.
16:36Yeah, to have that mindset in terms of deciding to invest because science of course means taking more risks
16:44and also is willing to face failure before you achieve any success.
16:49To have that mindset in our local landscape, do you think that is something that we have or should we push further?
16:58Right. I think, you know, with actually the success of all kinds of Malaysian entrepreneurs and artists and creatives,
17:08it's clearly there. But I think we can ask the question, how can that be built up and how can it be reinforced?
17:16And one of the things I want to say maybe, you know, perhaps unexpectedly because I work in a scientific background,
17:23but by the time we get to doing serious scientific research, there are no objective facts.
17:28We're working at the boundaries of our knowledge. And I think the way a lot of our education system is
17:35and how we're taught to answer questions, even those in the humanities, is to say these are the facts
17:40and they're objectively correct, even if it's how to interpret a poem. You look it up in a guide.
17:47And so, if anything, we probably do a good job of teaching the core facts in technical subjects like the sciences,
17:58but to be able to pose questions and then look for ways to answer them in those subjective topics, humanities,
18:09or indeed imposing scientific research questions. I think that's where we have to develop the values.
18:17And it's difficult. It needs real investment in the teachers so that they can bring that to their students.
18:23You develop the culture of inquiry rather than just high scores on exams.
18:29I have to ask this question. I know this can be quite controversial in that sense, but just your point of view.
18:35Do you think that our education system is having that in terms of letting our students, our talents,
18:42asking for more difficult questions and try to find answers and all that?
18:46I think it varies just because we have a big disparity in the types of education that we all go through.
18:53Certainly, so I was in national education all the way to SPM. I did do an IB diploma after that on a scholarship.
19:01And there was a difference. The first subject that I didn't do so well in once I went to the IB was in English literature
19:08because that was something I hadn't studied. And afterwards I picked up how to do some of this analysis.
19:13But again, it's a bit of a resource issue because when you have disadvantaged students or teachers,
19:22they've got to work on meeting the bar, right?
19:27So again, it's not the sort of thing that one solves overnight or without some really long-term development.
19:36But I do believe that we have the individuals and some of the dedicated teachers who are able to do that.
19:42It's about giving them a platform and or raising the bar for and the capabilities enabling the rest of schools to be able to develop that.
19:52You know, I mean, in school we were writing tons of essays. I can't write like that anymore.
19:57But it's those kinds of exploratory questions that are the key to unlocking it.
20:09Of course, Dr. Koo, looking ahead, what kind of ecosystem or policy support would help Malaysia build its own frontier science community locally?
20:21That's a very good question. Perhaps we can look to some of our neighbors here and sort of contrast where there is or is not the same kind of consistent interest in fundamental research as opposed to applied research.
20:45I have the impression that Singapore, for example, has a very strong focus on applied research and less so on anything that isn't sort of in their terms useful to society.
21:00But I mean, other places like India, for example, has had for a long history of doing fantastic work in mathematics and theoretical subjects and perhaps they might be one of the models that we can look to and understand how they have managed to develop that.
21:19develop that. The mindsets in some ways are not so different, right? We're also diligent and focused on mastering technical capabilities.
21:34I know it's quite sensitive to mention Singapore in a sense because Malaysians don't like to look at Singapore in terms of a lot of things.
21:39but I think if we can learn a lot of good things from our neighboring countries then be it, right?
21:46But my final question to the young Malaysians especially who dream to be working in places like CERN or any other prestigious institutions, what would be your advice for that?
21:57So let me start with actually that just keeping the passion, the excitement alive is the first thing that's going to get you anywhere.
22:06In my case, when I was interviewing for this scholarship to IB at an international school, I was told actually your interview was not very impressive
22:18until we asked you about black holes and then your eyes lit up and you impressed us with just the interest and what you wanted to learn.
22:26So that's going to be the motivating factor that keeps them going and they shouldn't lose that spark.
22:33But when I was growing up, a lot of the things I was learning were coming through books, the odd documentary, but a lot of popular science books.
22:45And especially for those who may not have direct access to that sort of media, I think the thing that's hugely different between
22:52my childhood and now is the sheer amount of stuff that's available on the internet through YouTube and even TikTok.
22:58I have a good friend, British, who's a scientific celebrity on TikTok and communicates the science about CERN and she's far from the only person who does this.
23:08So looking at when someone's flicking through these shorts, if they spend time on some of the educational content creators, there's a ton that they can learn from there, not just passively, but even actively engaging with them.
23:28As a matter of fact, there's also a student, Kaseh, who contacted me through my friend Clara, just reaching out to say,
23:37OK, I'm interested in hearing about Malaysians at CERN and we made a connection there.
23:42So the resources are there and people need to be brave and be willing to reach out and be heard.
23:49Right. Dr. Ku, thank you so much for joining us and helping me to understand better about this very interesting topic actually and formulation as well.
24:00Thank you so much for spending time with us. That's all the time that we have.
24:03You can catch this interview on AstroT1.com.
24:05And that's all for Ajinda Awani at Kassar America Trans Forum 225. See you next time.
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