- 2 months ago
Janelle Monáe and Lucy Dacus spend time together in Monáe's home studio as part of Rolling Stone's seventh annual Musicians on Musicians series. The two artists with expansive visions talk about gender, faith, futurism, and why some records feel like movies.
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MusicTranscript
00:00so lucy i've been dying to ask you yes the first time i tasted somebody's spit i had a coughing fit
00:07what did you mean by that explain to the rest of the class please
00:13um i said what i meant i meant what i said and you stood on business that day yes
00:30i came to discover you through historian that's wild that's long ago yeah i'm not expecting that
00:44i'm a lucy lover um so that opening line was like oh this is this is poetry this is cinema
00:54the first time i tasted somebody else's spit i had a coughing fit
01:02what kind was it tongue kissing i went through so many different things like
01:10oh did someone spit in her mouth oh wow this is so interesting like i was in the movie with you
01:17yeah i think that um a lot of the times when i'm writing it's just what happened
01:22and life is just poetic and it's just the noticing part i mean i feel like that must be true for you
01:29too or do you feel like you romanticize or poeticize things or how often are you taking like from your
01:35life to a song it's so interesting so i have just accepted that i'm a world builder
01:43please accept it we're all accepting this that is it i'm a world builder so i do what is best for
01:51for the protagonist of the album that's how i write and sometimes it can be from poems that have
01:59everything to do with me and everything to do with a character in my mind that i am realizing
02:05you know that i i see the movie i see the scene i see the world i see what they're wearing i know
02:11what kind of jam they like on their toast and so i'm creating um sort of this movie in my head or
02:19this scene that i'm dropping into song and i i write a mix of my like real experiences mixed in with
02:30this future version of myself or this version of a friend or a lover or a family member that i'm
02:39creating because i look at lyrics as like downloads sometimes i don't know what things truly mean like
02:46the the significance of them until after it's out do you ever feel like your own listener
02:53listener like you hear it later and you relate to it how anyone else would yes like that's why i
03:00think i loved historian and i love what you had to say about you being a historian like of all the
03:06moments and how things if you kind of don't write it down or take documentation of it like people won't
03:13know and i liked how you were thinking about it from that perspective like a pulled out
03:19like detaching maybe yeah from you your early records sounds so much like musicals or like operas
03:27and like classical music and obviously all the sci-fi stuff like when did you get into these things
03:34yeah i actually did not listen to a lot of classical music growing up i got into more scoring
03:41and orchestration because of my love of film so i love uh henry mancini and i love
03:48um john williams and when i would just listen to just the soundtracks i saw the world i was like
03:56oh even without seeing the films they're telling me a story right now like i'm i am through sound
04:02with not a lot of words i'm actually able i'm actually able to create my own stories
04:09by listening to their music how often do you think about these people you've created like cindy
04:17or somebody like yeah do you think about her like your family i do cindy came at such a great time
04:26in my life and um metropolis was a silent film that really inspired my work i was like oh an android
04:34it's the future sort of parallels between what it means to be an other is representative of how i feel
04:43in society of being queer being black growing up to working class parents i was like there's so many
04:48parallels here but we need to have a fresh take on that i was like i want to be the heart between all
04:54of this i don't want to be um i don't want to be chaos i want to be peace and that's what cindy
05:01mayweather represents peace i absolutely feel my dna in the future and cindy is that and we are
05:10helping each other correct he's like the future the future of you yeah whoa yeah yeah and it was so
05:17crazy when i put out metropolis and arc android we were talking about um ai where we are right now
05:25the fact that you cannot distinguish what is a human voice from ai um it's just mind-blowing how
05:33technology moves at this exponential rate yeah and i wanted cindy to be the bridge
05:38because there is this pitting computers and humans machines and people against each other and not
05:56showing how we can work together because this is like you know what 15 years ago or something you
06:02have this like android life that you're bringing that you're bringing so much heart to and then now
06:08it feels like closer than ever that androids are actually going to like enter our sphere and there
06:14are evil technocrats who are making money off of this and the resource mining for it and yeah like
06:20it seemed like you were in like a poetic lane about this and then i don't know like at least for me
06:28i'm very freaked out like i'm i'm not for it ai stuff like it it seems like an easy way for people
06:35to get out of like the dirt and grime of having to coexist like when people are like oh i want my
06:43digital girlfriend or like i'm not doing therapy i'm having chat gpt mirror me like it it makes me feel
06:54like people are like having these coping devices with how hard it is to be with each other when
07:03actually it's like through the hardness of being with each other that we find the peace and the
07:07comfortableness like you were talking about with age of pleasure like yeah part of being comfortable
07:12is maybe that you test that uh it's not just happiness all the time it's getting through
07:18disagreements and hardships in real life yeah it's like you're you're tearing the little muscles
07:24so they get stronger and um i i worry about our that's a good human muscles sorry tearing the
07:30little muscles to be stronger take it yeah i totally feel you and i'm scared too yeah i am um
07:39i'm also hopeful that we will realize as we have through history that we need each other in real life
07:50as well and when i say in real life i'm saying the community building like i don't think we will
07:57have ever made it without being in community and civilization literally depends on us yeah to
08:06protect us and to nurture us for survival yeah because i do think that if we are not careful
08:14we will really disconnect because we have everything
08:18there that can keep us distant yeah even if i'm in the same room with you i don't really have to
08:28interact i can just be on my phone yeah i can have my wall and if we have so many walls you know i'm
08:35afraid that we're not going to have enough bodies to penetrate through them whatever we can do to like
08:41get our feet in the sand and like really connect in real life i think that will benefit us long term
08:47yeah i think that our mental health will become much better because isolation too much of it yeah
08:52like i don't i'm kind of an introvert how about you i'm more of an introvert as time goes on yeah i've
08:58always been like a host like sounds like you throw parties like i do i used to before i moved here
09:02this is the most introverted i've ever been living in la like i'm from virginia and i lived in philly
09:07for a while okay and the houses i lived in were like show houses or like i'd come home and someone
09:14would be having their birthday party who didn't even live there like i lived with eight people over
09:18covid and so we all you know we had kind of this yeah you know society within the house yeah and then
09:26yeah it's just i like being able to have an open space for people i have a friend who's studying like
09:33public health at johns hopkins right now and she'll just send we call them personal pods sending like
09:38a voice message and one of the things they learned was like go to the party you need to go to the
09:44party for your wellness like not when you're sick or like take some nights off but like caring about
09:50other people is like exponentially more important for your health and self-care and like self-care
09:55of course you know take care of yourself but that doesn't substitute you can't just self-care your
10:03way right alone right like you need the uh interaction with other people and people have gone indoors for
10:11their entertainment and so people just come home and stay in their houses and right you know that's
10:17great news for the government like that we're not showing up together you know or we're not realizing how
10:24to organize without social media because once they get in charge of that you know it's harder to figure
10:30out how to get together and even with like queer and trans people like most people in my generation
10:36had like online communities that showed them that which is great but it is like a placeholder for your
10:42real in person there's like a biological imperative to breathing each other's air yes and uh being able to
10:51be with each other through grief being able to be with each other through celebration being able to
10:56be bored together yeah like these are all like such and be quiet together yeah yeah and not just anxious
11:02and feeling like right you have to be constantly productive whether it's work or personal life and
11:09yeah but do you have that a little bit you have to always be productive i feel like you're like i was
11:15looking at all of the work you're doing all the movies that you've been in i'm just like do you sleep
11:20i plan on being an engineer at nasa but i can't do that without taking them classes at that all-white
11:32high school and i can't change the color of my skin i found the balance now i think earlier in my
11:39career oh it was just like go go work work work i don't even think i took one drink the first
11:47few years of my probably for the best yeah which was cool but i'm just saying no pause like now
11:55if i'm with you know friends i'll have a glass of wine yeah or i'll do some shots if i'm on vacay
12:01but like back then i was like so tight locked in in a way that it actually was a bit unhealthy for me
12:11because i did not think i didn't trust myself i didn't trust that i could have the balance of
12:21having fun and letting my hair down and then also like being if i have an award show that i have to
12:27perform for i'm going on tour like i can do that i can have a schedule that feels balanced i didn't
12:34know my balance and i am a person that does thrive within community and having fun like i need to be
12:40on vacation with my titties out i need to do that yes for my own personal evolution and being in tune
12:47with my body i think for a long time i grew up in a family and i think you also grew up um in church
12:55yeah i grew up baptist but yeah but i think yeah i remember um hearing that but growing up baptist
13:02we always had to wear long skirts we always had to be fully covered and as puberty hit like my boobs
13:09got bigger and also there were a lot of women in our family who were violated so they would say
13:15cover up as a way to protect yourself from men being attracted to you and i had to unlearn that
13:24my bodily autonomy is important and my freedom cannot be choked um so that you can
13:33not have urges to want to rape me or molest me or uh violate my body that's not my problem that's
13:42something you need to control the other side yeah yeah like do not ask me to choke my freedom to make
13:49you comfortable so i had to unlearn that so um now your tits out on the album cover now yeah now i was
13:57like i guess i'm making up for lost time yeah i don't know but i'm also just honoring my body and
14:02saying i'm sorry i'm sorry that i um didn't know uh that it wasn't my fault yeah that's so powerful
14:12yeah and then i i love like this album talk me through like maybe some of the things you had to
14:20tell yourself to um because like me we both can do tuxedos and suits in our time brown yeah i think
14:28for me i'd say were you scared were you like for being more mask or be just going between yeah i i say
14:37water and rock and like soft and hard yeah yeah you know being non-binary i'm i'm like yeah i'm i think
14:47of it in energy right i feel the steeply yeah i if i was told like you have to be one way forever
14:55i would be like maybe life's not for me right i really it's very important every day to wake up
15:03and be like is it boy day or girl day right now or right on tour especially if we do like two nights
15:10in the same city i'll have like boy night girl night yeah and like the ankles video i have this big gown
15:16and that obviously feels like a costume yeah because it is one but whenever i'm doing like a
15:23really feminine look i feel like i'm putting on a costume yeah for fun yeah and then i feel more
15:29myself and right more like traditionally masculine yeah clothes and um but i want both yeah i want it
15:37all yeah maybe we talk about halloween i want to know do you love how i love halloween me and my
15:44partner were pete davidson and ariana grande oh my god i was pete i planned my costumes two years in
15:53advance i've always loved transforming and i think that's what i love about halloween and that's what
15:58i love about world building through music i think when i saw david bowie you saw him i did i traveled
16:05back into the 1970s and i saw him do ziggy stardust and the spiders from mars and it was incredible
16:12you traveled i was yeah it was backstage and i was like this is what i want to do and so i
16:18jetted back to you know the 2000s and i was like i can have the musical make the music create the lyrics
16:28and create community around transformation and being queer and not even just in sexuality but
16:34just in how we see the world i think that's the synergy between halloween because i feel like
16:39people give themselves permission to be on my frequency we're on the same frequency right you're
16:45like okay now all of you are showing up for how i feel let's transform let's play let's let's go
16:52outside of what let's go outside the mundane and what people know us as every day leave room
16:59to allow yourself to transform i don't know who i will be in 2027 and i'm okay with that except for
17:06halloween except for halloween i do know that yeah i didn't grow up with a ton of examples of people who
17:13i would describe as like free yeah and often if i ever saw one out of the corner of my eye
17:18they'd be vilified or like not even just vilified but made fun of like that's kind of underrated as a
17:26thing as a kid as being like they're stupid or terribly i mean i i don't even think i know it all
17:33yet that's kind of the nice thing to realize is that life will continue to surprise we don't know
17:39it all yeah and we i leave room um and it feels like you do too for the unknown and a surprise of
17:48yourself i'm ready to surprise myself yeah i do i surprise myself a lot and i could be going for a
17:55thing and then another thing comes out it's like oh okay i just unlocked a different version of you
18:01yeah a different version of you janelle like the moment i stop surprising myself i don't think it'll be
18:05it's over you know like this is like water like like i'm doing the thing that
18:14is giving me a pit in my stomach like i want to follow like what am i afraid of let's game this out
18:22and so i'll game it out i'm like okay what what what am i what what is the thing that i don't want
18:30to happen why don't i want that to happen oh okay i need to put my ego in the back seat um i was with a
18:38new friend that i met in new york and we played this game where if there are four four energies in
18:46the car four people in the car okay one is fear one is ego one is spirit and one is sexuality
18:55who's driving who's riding shotgun and which two are in the back seat fear has got to get to the
19:02back seat but it's so often driving or maybe passenger princess is fear i think when you love
19:11your life fear comes in i think the more i love my life the more i feel i have things to lose
19:19and actually that's like a lot about i never i keep not answering your questions about my music
19:25but like forever is a feeling is a lot about like falling in and out of love and having love
19:34just wreck your psyche and how it's not just happy it's like it weighs on you it like changes your life
19:43whether you're ready for it or not and um it's just this preemptive feeling of loss and i mean i
19:52also did want to make like some happy songs i think they're important also i want to get old and i want
20:00to hear that i felt this way that's the other thing is like you think about time a lot i'm thinking
20:05about time constantly and i'm weirdly always thinking about my deathbed and how i want for everything
20:11i've made to have made me proud and so maybe that's like cutting me off from a certain part of who i
20:18am but it's also streamlining like a sense of purpose and so i'm like i can tell that i'm young
20:26and i can tell that this is a feeling that could leave and i just want to document like historian
20:36yeah you know of having felt this way because i want to you know remember what it was like yeah
20:44i love that i also one of my biggest fear is not really my transitioning out of here but the people
20:53i love yeah i'm not i'm not ready to that's my biggest fear have that call is people that i
21:00love leaving without peace like parents and yeah i just yeah that is something that i'm working
21:08through right now like deeply and doing like some real just
21:14yeah it it it's just something i don't think anybody ever gets used to you know all of my
21:22friends who've lost anybody who's lost their parent or a sibling or something like that they just say
21:27like you never really get over it um you learn how to cope i think being someone you your ability
21:36to control your art and everything is why it's amazing and so being so and i also love to touch
21:44every aspect of everything in in art other people kind of have to let them be even though it's hard
21:49yeah you have to be the god of your own art for it to even exist yes but that's the ultimate out of
21:57control thing i know is like you can't plan you can't that's it's the end of dreaming like you can't
22:04you can't even not to get it like this no i'm such a control freak yeah i am and i really
22:11tuck myself into believing that i am in control but i think that there is definitely a interaction
22:20between me and the universe it's like hmm you think you're in control all right girl you know
22:28kind of like when you have a you know your parents are like okay keep on keep on living um but i want
22:35to stay in this delusion because it makes me feel a little a little more at ease you know i think when
22:41it's time to get out of it it'll be time then yeah i think about that with with death as well like
22:47i have had a couple examples of people who are not ready and then they are when the time is right
22:54and so i'm not ready yeah and i i'm not even just hope that once it's before me i don't have to i
23:02don't have to get ready yeah like it might just happen so that's how i've been calming myself recently
23:07my friend who is glasswegian said that there's like a scottish phrase it's like what for you won't
23:13pass you so it's just like it's coming i don't really have to do work it's gonna come if it's for me
23:21i love that yeah are there moments in your life because certainly for me like as i'm
23:27creating i have grief of not realizing an idea fully i was gonna ask you about this because i'm
23:37like you must have ideas that haven't come to fruition because it seems like you're constantly
23:42having ideas whoo yeah one of my biggest fears a lot of my anxiety stemmed from not realizing all of
23:50the stuff that's here yeah like i cannot turn off going into a grocery store or a movie theater
23:58without having ideas of like when i see people i can see someone in the outfit and i'm like oh that
24:06would be sick they need a movie like this they should have this and it's like i'm having these
24:10conversations in my mind or oh my god the soundtrack to that group of people is crazy like i could walk
24:18into a restaurant and see architecture that i love and i'm just like that's set design for the idea
24:24i need to and if i showed you my like a note i have a long do you do notes yes i'll show you too
24:31look at all these pins i'm like things left unsaid things left unsaid is the name of the note the name
24:41and then i'm like um i have movie and tv show ideas look at this oh my god oh that's amazing wait i
24:51kind of have this yeah it's notes oh yeah i see for lyric writing i mean i have like uh i'll think out
25:03albums like lp4 5 6 7 like just things about them but then um song lyrics every year i have a thing
25:13called various bits so 2023 24 25 and like every lyric idea i just put in here and this is all the
25:22unused from that year oh my god um incredible and so then it's just by a year so if i'm writing
25:29something and i'm like it's mostly written but i need like a key uh i'll go back to another year
25:34and just kind of scroll around so smart yeah see mine is song concepts so concepts first yeah i start
25:41with concepts first when i'm writing i mean you have notes but do you physically write yeah i have
25:47journals in journals and i know that's how you wrote a lot of the project um through journals how do
25:53you you keep everything because i always get so fearful that somebody's going to steal my journal
25:59or something someone did one time oh it's like a little hole in my heart no but yeah someone stole
26:05three years of journaling which was like end of high school my whole college experience that i dropped
26:10out of a whole relationship and then recording and putting out my first record like all oh my god
26:17my heart so it's okay yeah i mean it happened but it did um make me think like why do i do this
26:24and i don't really know why and i just started again and i still don't really know why and for
26:30as much as i like to think about why and have reasons and be thought out the things that are
26:35mysteries to me i really respect yeah i'm just like i guess i'm just doing this it's just instinctual
26:41i don't need an explanation other than it's happening this was so magical and wonderful and so
26:48peacefully inspiring and creatively fulfilling to just be in your presence and talking with you
26:56and being able to just tell you in person how much i love you i can't believe you're saying this to me
27:02that's what's crazy i've just been a fan for so long and uh love this you know
27:08you're family now yeah thank you
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