- 4 months ago
Join Nailah Huda as she speaks with H.E. Edmund Bon, Malaysia’s Representative to AICHR, on the landmark human rights declaration which will be adopted in the upcoming summit.
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00:00This is Awani Global with me, Naila Huda.
00:09With the ASEAN Summit coming up at the end of this month,
00:12the world's attention turns to Kuala Lumpur and the regional bloc,
00:16especially in how they aim to navigate human rights issues,
00:20both in their backyard and abroad, from Myanmar to Gaza.
00:24It's expected that the focus will shift towards these conflicts and humanitarian crises,
00:29much like what we've seen with other international and regional meetings
00:32from the UN, General Assembly to BRICS and G20.
00:37And one signal perhaps that the region's approach to human rights issues is evolving
00:41is the ASEAN Intergovernmental Commission on Human Rights, or AICHA,
00:46preparing to adopt two landmark declarations at the ASEAN Summit, end of this month.
00:51So to find out more about these landmark declarations and what AICHA is doing,
00:55we're very honoured to be joined by His Excellency Edmund Bond,
00:58Chair of AICHA, joining us online on Awani Global today.
01:02Thank you so much, Edmund, for joining us today.
01:05I think before we go into the declarations, maybe we can sort of paint a picture,
01:11sort of go into the bigger picture question of human rights issues
01:15and how perhaps you might see this having some progress or how it's evolved in Southeast Asia.
01:23How has ASEAN been addressing these human rights issues in the past decade or so?
01:30The ASEAN Intergovernmental Commission on Human Rights was established in 2009.
01:34And I think in the beginning, ASEAN was a bit fearful of human rights.
01:39The representatives were debating how to go about it.
01:43And that was because really we didn't have a baseline human rights declaration.
01:48And only in 2012, we had the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration.
01:51That spells out all of the civil political rights, the UDHR rights,
01:57the Universal Declaration on Human Rights.
01:58And it adds value with three really important rights.
02:03The right to a safe, clean, healthy, sustainable environment,
02:06the right to enjoy peace, and the right to development.
02:10Recently, under Malaysia's leadership, we have been very concerted
02:15in trying to use human rights as a bridge-building tool
02:21to make sure that we deal with the human rights violations in the region,
02:26make sure that we prevent conflict, make sure we use it to deal with conflict,
02:32as well as to really discuss very sensitive issues.
02:36This has been happening for some time, for a few years,
02:39but I think this year has been really standout because the representatives,
02:46especially the six of us who are new, have started to bring a new dimension
02:51to how ASEAN looks at human rights.
02:54And there's, I think, a bit more comfort level in dealing with these issues
02:58because of the different maturity levels that have really progressed in the region.
03:05So I would say that the Commission has grown from strength to strength.
03:10Some people have criticized us, but that's maybe using a different lens.
03:13It may be using a Western lens.
03:15I think in Southeast Asia, we have been struggling,
03:18fighting for greater protection of human rights,
03:22and we are taking it in the right direction.
03:25You mentioned a lot of interesting points there
03:27that I do want you to elaborate a little bit on.
03:30But before that, I do also want to hear more about
03:34these landmark declarations that we can expect at the summit this month.
03:39Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
03:42AICHA was the one that negotiated and drafted
03:46the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration in 2012.
03:50Since then, AICHA has not led any other human rights declaration.
03:55More so, I think, because, as I mentioned,
03:57there have been misunderstandings or inability to come together
04:01on common positions.
04:03During our chairmanship this year, during our chairship this year,
04:06we said that we would like to complete negotiations
04:10on the right to a safe, clean, healthy, sustainable environment
04:14that has been in the pipeline for almost three years.
04:18So Malaysia has completed it.
04:20We are very proud of it.
04:21It's a very strong declaration.
04:24It may not be the best,
04:26but it is definitely the second,
04:29the only the second human rights declaration
04:30that ASEAN has taken on board in such a huge way,
04:35and we look forward to it.
04:36That deals with the right to everyone,
04:39right to the communities,
04:40right to protect the environment,
04:44make sure it's safe, make sure it's clean,
04:46deal with pollution,
04:47deal with indigenous people's rights,
04:49deal with freedom of information,
04:52public participation.
04:53So we are looking forward to adoption
04:55of that declaration on the 47th summit that's upcoming.
05:00There is a second declaration that Malaysia has proposed,
05:03and we have also completed negotiations.
05:06We are just waiting for some countries
05:08to officially endorse it.
05:10Hopefully by the 47th summit,
05:12again, it will be endorsed.
05:13This is a right to development
05:14and right to peace declaration
05:17towards realising inclusive and sustainable development.
05:20That's in complete alignment
05:23with Malaysia's theme this year
05:25of inclusivity and sustainability.
05:27How do you think this declaration
05:30can progress further,
05:33the kind of maturity that you were talking about
05:35in addressing the sort of shift in perception
05:39that ASEAN member states have towards human rights issues,
05:42especially in navigating the sensitivities around that?
05:47You know, with ASEAN,
05:48there's a lot of principles of non-interference,
05:51there's principles of consensus.
05:53How do you see the sort of balance
05:57with these principles
05:59and how ASEAN member states have always operated?
06:04I don't see a contradiction.
06:07So the non-interference principle,
06:08the ASEAN way has always been how we operated.
06:12The declaration,
06:13and ASEAN adopts many declarations over the years,
06:16allows us to be more cooperative,
06:19provides a standard regional baseline.
06:22And then once we have that baseline,
06:25national governments are supposed to implement that baseline.
06:30We encourage them,
06:32we work with them to implement that baseline.
06:36And through a lot of meetings,
06:37through a lot of discussions,
06:39we say,
06:39hey, there may be some gaps here.
06:42Let's learn from each other.
06:43There may be some good practices here.
06:45Let's learn from each other.
06:46And now more importantly,
06:47through the AICHA,
06:48we have been saying,
06:50look,
06:50there are some case studies
06:52that we need to look at.
06:54There are some scenario planning
06:55that we need to do
06:56because there are cases
06:58that keep coming up to the commission.
07:00We have received something like
07:01100 over communications,
07:03complaints on human rights
07:05since 2010.
07:07We have been dealing with it very actively.
07:09We are alive
07:11and we understand
07:13the problems of the people.
07:15So we are trying to do it
07:16in a way that
07:17respects the sovereignty
07:19of each member state.
07:21We don't interfere.
07:22But we say,
07:23hey,
07:23we receive a complaint.
07:25What do you think we should do?
07:26So if it's a Malaysian issue,
07:29I will take the complaint.
07:30I will take the case.
07:31I will then engage
07:33with my government,
07:34with the Malaysian government,
07:35with the agencies,
07:37with KDN,
07:38with Suhakam,
07:39with other bodies
07:40and say,
07:41please,
07:41could you share with us
07:43what do you think about this case?
07:45And we have done this this year.
07:46We have done this for cases
07:48on Freedom of Peaceful Assembly.
07:49We have done it on the environment.
07:51We are working on cases
07:53regarding statelessness
07:54and refugee rights.
07:56So I think
07:56there is no contradiction
07:58between the principle
07:59of non-interference
08:00and dealing
08:00with human rights violations.
08:02But the method,
08:04the way it's done,
08:05needs to be consultative
08:06and cooperative.
08:07And a declaration
08:08like one on the environment
08:10will allow us
08:11to implant
08:12and embed
08:13that kind of
08:14common principles.
08:15And then when we
08:16have that common principles,
08:17we work together
08:19with other ASEAN member states
08:21in dealing with
08:21these cases
08:23that we receive.
08:27I want to go
08:28a little bit deeper
08:29into that,
08:29not just looking
08:30at about
08:31the balance
08:33that you have to strike
08:34with these different principles.
08:35And you seem to think
08:36there's no contradiction.
08:37but what about
08:38in terms of governance
08:39and in terms of
08:40these regulatory
08:41and justice
08:42system frameworks?
08:44There's, I'm sure,
08:45fragmentation
08:46across the region.
08:47How do you perhaps
08:48find this
08:49effort of
08:51harmonizing
08:52or creating
08:53the standard
08:53regional baseline,
08:55as you say,
08:56keeping in mind
08:56that there's this,
08:57you know,
08:58variety and diversity
08:59of regulatory
09:01systems
09:02and justice
09:02systems
09:02across the region?
09:03So the
09:05understanding
09:06of, for example,
09:07the EU,
09:08they have
09:08a supra-national
09:10type of parliament
09:12where they have laws
09:13that apply
09:13to all their
09:14member states.
09:15ASEAN is a bit different.
09:16ASEAN is more
09:17like an association.
09:19While we try
09:20to align
09:22a lot of our
09:23principles,
09:23policies and standards,
09:25we just make sure
09:26that we are not,
09:27we don't go below
09:28international human rights
09:29standards.
09:29As long as we don't
09:30go below
09:31international human
09:32rights standards,
09:33if those standards
09:34are then translated
09:35into practice,
09:36how they are
09:37operationalized
09:37in different contexts
09:38and on different
09:39countries
09:40will differ.
09:41So we will allow
09:43those countries
09:44to say,
09:45yeah,
09:45okay,
09:46this is how we
09:47implement it,
09:47we understand
09:48your national context,
09:49we understand
09:50your economic
09:51reasons,
09:52we understand
09:52your capacity,
09:53but so long as
09:54you don't drop
09:55below the
09:55international line.
09:56The international
09:57standard,
09:58the regional
09:59standard now,
09:59and now I can
10:00say with the
10:00declaration there
10:01will be a
10:02regional standard
10:02on environmental
10:03rights,
10:04we must not
10:05drop below
10:05that line,
10:06and that line
10:06to me in that
10:08declaration is
10:09actually higher
10:09than international
10:11standards.
10:12So when we
10:12operationalize it,
10:14we help each
10:14other to
10:15operationalize it,
10:16but we cannot
10:17really compare
10:18ourselves with
10:19other regions
10:19like Africa
10:21and Europe
10:22where there is
10:22a court and
10:23say yes,
10:24you need to
10:25harmonize,
10:26you need to
10:26make sure all
10:27are the same,
10:28and when there's
10:28a violation,
10:29go to the
10:30court and
10:30get a court
10:31judgment.
10:33ASEAN at
10:34the moment
10:34has no
10:35court,
10:36so we
10:36cannot compare
10:37our regions,
10:39we can see
10:40how it works
10:41that side,
10:42but the
10:43commission has
10:44mandate and
10:45powers to
10:45provide
10:45recommendations,
10:46and we have
10:47provided
10:47recommendations.
10:49An example
10:49is the
10:50recommendation
10:51to Myanmar
10:52on the
10:53situation of
10:53the earthquakes,
10:55the five-point
10:55consensus,
10:56as well as
10:56the Myanmar
10:57coup.
11:00On that
11:00point,
11:01you bring me
11:01to my
11:02next point,
11:03of course,
11:03there will be
11:03a lot of
11:03attention focused
11:05towards the
11:05Myanmar
11:06crisis as
11:07well.
11:07What the
11:08process or
11:08the progress
11:09has been like
11:10with how
11:10ASEAN has
11:11been dealing
11:11with that?
11:12How do you
11:12think
11:13Aisha
11:13looks at
11:14this
11:15crisis
11:15and how
11:16do you
11:17think
11:17the
11:17conversation
11:18surrounding
11:18it will
11:19be like
11:19with the
11:19ASEAN
11:20summit this
11:20year?
11:20First of
11:22all,
11:22I need
11:22to say
11:22that
11:23Aisha
11:23is probably
11:24one of
11:26those bodies
11:26that meet
11:27so regularly.
11:28This year,
11:29we have
11:29met,
11:30I think,
11:31six times,
11:31we have
11:32met five
11:32times,
11:32we are
11:32going to
11:33meet the
11:33sixth time,
11:34and then
11:34we have
11:34something like
11:3520,
11:3630 activities
11:37a year,
11:37so we
11:38meet each
11:38other regularly.
11:40I can
11:40tell you
11:41that for
11:41every
11:42meeting,
11:43myself and
11:45some of
11:45the other
11:46representatives
11:46always raise
11:48the issue
11:49of Myanmar.
11:49the implementation
11:51of the
11:515PC,
11:52humanitarian
11:53aid,
11:54dealing with
11:55going back
11:56to normalcy
11:57and supporting
11:58a long-lasting
11:59durable
11:59peace.
12:01When we
12:02talk about
12:02it,
12:03we will
12:03then receive
12:04responses from
12:04Myanmar
12:05and maybe
12:06other
12:06representatives
12:07and then
12:08make
12:09recommendations
12:10as to
12:10what can
12:10be taken
12:11up.
12:12Some of
12:12these are
12:12in writing,
12:13some of
12:14these are
12:14verbal,
12:15but we
12:15have a
12:16situation
12:17of discussing
12:18how it
12:19can be
12:20implemented.
12:20At this
12:21point in
12:22time,
12:22Myanmar is
12:23an extremely
12:24complex
12:24situation.
12:25It's being
12:25dealt with
12:26by the
12:26leaders.
12:27The issue
12:28is whether
12:28ASEAN will
12:30support the
12:32elections,
12:32which may
12:33not be
12:34inclusive.
12:35I think
12:35Malaysia,
12:36our foreign
12:37minister,
12:37has already
12:37taken a
12:38position.
12:39It's quite
12:39clear that
12:40we will
12:40be careful
12:42in wanting
12:43to support
12:44such
12:45position.
12:46but the
12:47advocacy,
12:48the diplomacy
12:49to deal
12:50with the
12:50issue of
12:50Myanmar
12:51has to
12:51continue.
12:52We have
12:52a special
12:54envoy of
12:54the ASEAN
12:55chair to
12:55deal with
12:56it.
12:57But I'm
12:57saying that
12:58for the
12:59commission,
12:59it provides
13:00a platform
13:00to discuss
13:01this
13:01sensitive
13:01issue.
13:02Look at
13:03the other
13:04extreme.
13:06We have
13:06already talked
13:07about the
13:08responsibility
13:08to protect
13:09principle.
13:10It has
13:10three pillars.
13:11One of the
13:12pillars is
13:13military
13:13intervention.
13:14I know
13:16nobody wants
13:17that.
13:17ASEAN
13:17will not
13:18want that.
13:19No ASEAN
13:19member state
13:20will put
13:20their boots
13:21on the
13:21ground and
13:22go in
13:23without the
13:24consent of
13:24that government,
13:26whether it's a
13:26military government
13:27or whether it's
13:27a civilian
13:28government.
13:29But when
13:30the government
13:31says,
13:31I need
13:32aid,
13:32I need
13:33humanitarian
13:34support,
13:35and Malaysia
13:35has sent
13:35our people
13:36there,
13:37Singapore
13:37and a few
13:38other countries
13:38have sent
13:39post the
13:40earthquake,
13:40that is
13:41another way
13:42of showing
13:43support.
13:43That also
13:45came with
13:47the ceasefire,
13:48which is a
13:49good thing.
13:50So there
13:51is no
13:52quick fix
13:53answer.
13:53This issue
13:54of Myanmar
13:55has been
13:56a festering
13:57issue for
13:57many,
13:58many years.
13:58It's been
13:59an issue
13:59that ASEAN
14:00has to
14:01deal with.
14:02But moving
14:02ahead,
14:03I think we
14:03see progress
14:04because even
14:05at the
14:05commission,
14:06when it
14:06was very
14:07sensitive to
14:07talk about
14:07Myanmar
14:08a long
14:09time ago,
14:10we made
14:10statements in
14:112018 about
14:12the issue
14:13of the
14:13Rohingya
14:13refugees.
14:16Just quickly
14:17on that
14:17note of
14:17the case
14:18of Myanmar,
14:19these
14:20mechanisms or
14:20these channels
14:21of dialogue
14:23and negotiations
14:24and discussions,
14:25do you think
14:25these are
14:25sufficient or
14:26do you think
14:27there are
14:27other avenues
14:27to be
14:28explored?
14:30ASEAN
14:302045 calls
14:32for a
14:32strengthened
14:33ASEAN,
14:34enhanced
14:35ASEAN.
14:37We need
14:37enhanced
14:38mechanisms.
14:38And the
14:39promise
14:39Malaysia
14:40made,
14:41my part
14:42in the
14:42sense of
14:43as a
14:43representative
14:44of
14:44Malaysia
14:44on the
14:45AICHA,
14:46last year
14:47I recall,
14:48is that we
14:48are looking
14:48at peace
14:49and conflict
14:49prevention.
14:51This year
14:51we have
14:51started with
14:52a lot
14:53of
14:53workshops,
14:54many
14:54workshops,
14:55there's one
14:55continuing
14:56next two
14:57weeks,
14:57on peace.
14:59I think
14:59we need
15:00to enhance
15:01ASEAN's
15:02conflict
15:03prevention
15:03and peace
15:04building
15:05mechanism.
15:06We do
15:07not have
15:07a mechanism
15:08that allows
15:11a full
15:12ASEAN-led,
15:13ASEAN-owned,
15:14whole of
15:15ASEAN
15:15approach.
15:16A lot
15:16of times
15:17it relies
15:18on the
15:18good faith
15:19and the
15:19good offices
15:20of the
15:21ASEAN
15:21CHI,
15:21in this
15:21case,
15:22Malaysia.
15:24So what
15:24we are
15:24looking at
15:25at the
15:25commission
15:25is,
15:26do we
15:26need
15:27an ASEAN
15:28template?
15:29So when
15:29there's an
15:30issue of
15:30the Cambodia-Thailand
15:31conflict,
15:32for example,
15:32there's an
15:33issue of
15:34intrastate,
15:35interstate,
15:36an issue
15:37of South
15:37China Sea
15:38comes up,
15:39what are
15:40the steps
15:41that member
15:42states can
15:43or should
15:43take in
15:44that mechanism?
15:45So if you
15:45ask me,
15:46I think
15:46yes,
15:47we need
15:47a mechanism,
15:48we are
15:49working on
15:49it,
15:50but I
15:51cannot work
15:51on it
15:51in one
15:52year.
15:53We started
15:53the workshops
15:54early this
15:55year,
15:56but I
15:56think it
15:57needs a
15:57lot more
15:58time,
15:58we are
15:58gathering a
15:59lot of
16:00experts,
16:01and we
16:01need to
16:01flesh out
16:02the details,
16:03we need
16:03to learn
16:03from the
16:04past,
16:04we need
16:05to learn
16:05on Cyclone
16:06Nagis,
16:07what has
16:07happened in
16:08Myanmar,
16:08we learn
16:09from Southern
16:09Thailand,
16:10Aceh,
16:11Mindanao,
16:11Marawi,
16:12Timor
16:12Leste,
16:13Cambodia,
16:14all these
16:14issues of
16:15conflict need
16:16to be
16:17documented,
16:17and then we
16:18learn from it
16:19and decide how
16:20to put it in
16:21practice,
16:21how do we put
16:23it in human
16:23rights,
16:24diplomacy,
16:25diplomatic
16:26practices for
16:26ASEAN.
16:27On that
16:28note of
16:29peace
16:30building and
16:31conflict
16:31resolution,
16:32you mentioned
16:33the Thailand
16:34and Cambodia
16:34border dispute
16:35among other
16:36issues,
16:37but just to
16:38talk about
16:38that quickly,
16:40we did
16:40see the
16:41US
16:42involvement
16:43in that,
16:43in the
16:44sort of
16:44ceasefire
16:45that was
16:46achieved
16:47quite
16:48ceremonially,
16:49and of course
16:50President Trump
16:50claiming it
16:51as a win
16:53in his
16:54effort to
16:54get a
16:54Nobel Peace
16:55Prize,
16:55I'm assuming,
16:56what kind
16:56of signal
16:57do you
16:57think that
16:57sends?
16:59I don't
17:00want to
17:00talk about
17:01Trump and
17:02the US,
17:03I want to
17:03look at it
17:04as an
17:04ASEAN-led,
17:05ASEAN-owned
17:06approach.
17:07The ASEAN
17:08chair,
17:08Malaysia,
17:09and in
17:09this case,
17:10our Prime
17:11Minister
17:11Tadok Sri
17:12Anwar and
17:12our Foreign
17:13Minister
17:14Tok Mat,
17:15they were
17:15the ones
17:16that said,
17:17hey,
17:17let's do
17:18mediation,
17:19and the
17:20thing is,
17:21both Thailand
17:22and Cambodia
17:23have a
17:24lot of
17:24trust in
17:24Malaysia
17:25as
17:26mediator,
17:27as
17:27someone
17:29that can,
17:30as a
17:30country that
17:31can lead,
17:32also as
17:32an ASEAN
17:33chair.
17:34So I
17:34see this
17:34as success
17:35for Malaysia,
17:36but that's
17:37only the
17:37first step,
17:38getting the
17:38ceasefire.
17:39Malaysia
17:39also now
17:40leads the
17:41issue of
17:41how we
17:42implement
17:42the
17:43ceasefire,
17:43and there
17:43are some
17:44conditions
17:45to the
17:45ceasefire
17:46about
17:46dealing
17:47with the
17:47online
17:47scam
17:48issues,
17:49moving
17:49heavy
17:50artillery.
17:51So we
17:52look forward
17:52to
17:53steps,
17:54the
17:54Ministry of
17:55Foreign Affairs,
17:56Malaysia has
17:57been negotiating
17:58very much,
17:59and I don't
18:00want to
18:00comment about
18:01it very much
18:01because we
18:02have not
18:02reached the
18:03end,
18:04but I
18:04really,
18:05really hope
18:06that we
18:07can come
18:08to some
18:08sort of
18:09long-lasting
18:11settlement,
18:12but what I
18:13want to say,
18:13and I can say
18:14from the
18:14commission
18:14itself,
18:15is that we
18:15have discussed
18:16it.
18:17Cambodia
18:17and Thailand
18:18respectively have
18:21been sending
18:21communications to
18:23the commission,
18:25Aicha,
18:26to me,
18:26addressed as
18:27the chair,
18:28and I have
18:29been speaking
18:30to Cambodia
18:31and Thailand
18:32in full
18:32consultation with
18:33their ministries
18:34and my
18:35ministry,
18:36as well as
18:36sharing it
18:37with others
18:37and say,
18:39in essence,
18:40hey,
18:40there is this
18:41problem,
18:41there are some
18:41recommendations,
18:43what do we do
18:44about it?
18:44We just
18:45spoke about
18:45it at
18:46the last
18:47meeting.
18:48Of course,
18:48a lot of
18:49it depends
18:49on what
18:50Cambodia and
18:50Thailand
18:50want to
18:51do.
18:51Both of
18:51them seem
18:52to be
18:52taking
18:52different
18:53approaches,
18:55and at
18:56the moment,
18:56it will be
18:57for us
18:58incumbent on
18:58Malaysia to
19:00mediate those
19:01approaches and
19:01look forward
19:02to peaceful
19:04settlement of
19:05the dispute.
19:06Just quickly
19:07on that,
19:08how contingent
19:09do you think
19:10efforts of
19:12peacebuilding
19:13and conflict
19:13resolution
19:14the sort
19:15of maturity,
19:16as you
19:16said,
19:16to address
19:17sensitive
19:18human rights
19:19issues,
19:19how contingent
19:20is that on
19:21the leadership,
19:22the chairmanship
19:23of ASEAN
19:24and Aicher
19:24as well?
19:26ASEAN has
19:27been quite
19:27successful,
19:29if not one
19:30of the most
19:30successful regions
19:31in preventing
19:32conflicts.
19:34A lot of
19:34the conflicts
19:35that arise
19:35are actually
19:36intrastate.
19:37So you see
19:38around us
19:39issues that
19:40have come up
19:41really within
19:42that state.
19:43And so
19:44then the
19:44non-interference
19:45principles
19:45apply a
19:47bit more
19:48because the
19:48state then
19:49says,
19:49please don't
19:49interfere with
19:50us.
19:50But when
19:51it spills
19:51over,
19:52when there's
19:53a regional
19:53peace that
19:54is threatened,
19:54like Malaysia
19:55has many,
19:57many refugees
19:58from Myanmar,
19:59then it
20:00becomes an
20:01ASEAN issue.
20:02So I
20:03still keep
20:04going back
20:04to the
20:05issue of
20:06here,
20:08our practice
20:09has been
20:09rely on the
20:10chair.
20:10I'm saying
20:12yes,
20:13rely on
20:13the chair
20:13and that's
20:14in the
20:14ASEAN
20:14charter,
20:15but relying
20:16on a
20:16chair is
20:17not enough.
20:18We need
20:18a template
20:19at a
20:19working
20:20level
20:20rather
20:21than
20:22an ad
20:23hoc
20:23process
20:24that
20:25comes
20:25and
20:25goes
20:26whenever
20:27there's
20:27a
20:27conflict
20:28and
20:28then
20:28someone
20:28rushes
20:29to say,
20:29okay,
20:29let's
20:30have
20:30this
20:30process.
20:32Because
20:32the
20:33ASEAN
20:33chair may
20:34have
20:34different
20:34views
20:35and
20:35different
20:35successive
20:36ASEAN
20:37chairs
20:37may have
20:38different
20:38approaches.
20:39So I'm
20:39saying let's
20:40have an
20:41ASEAN
20:41mechanism and
20:42Aicha is
20:43actually working
20:44on it.
20:45And to
20:45work on
20:45it,
20:46Aicha provides
20:47a safe
20:48and constructive
20:48platform to
20:50discuss this
20:51issue.
20:51So when
20:51people say
20:52Aicha doesn't
20:52discuss this
20:53issue,
20:54Aicha doesn't
20:54protect human
20:55rights,
20:55Aicha doesn't
20:56respond,
20:57I think
20:57that's wrong.
20:58Nobody knows
20:59what's going
21:00on in the
21:00commission.
21:00Of course,
21:01we keep
21:02a lot of
21:03our discussions
21:04confidential
21:05because it's
21:06some quite
21:08emotional
21:08discussions,
21:10but I can
21:10say publicly
21:11that we
21:12discuss this
21:13very robustly
21:13in the
21:14commission.
21:15Now I
21:16want to
21:16move beyond
21:17issues in
21:18our backyard
21:18to some
21:19issues beyond.
21:20What are
21:21some of the
21:22factors that
21:22inform Aicha's
21:24decision to
21:24address international
21:26issues beyond
21:26ASEAN,
21:27for example,
21:28the conflict
21:28in Gaza,
21:29of course?
21:30The conflict
21:31in Gaza has
21:32been raised
21:32by Malaysia,
21:33by myself,
21:34in at least
21:35three of our
21:36statements,
21:37yes,
21:37I think.
21:38And the
21:39last recent
21:40statement was
21:41one of the
21:42strongest.
21:42I've called
21:43it a genocide.
21:44I've called
21:45on all
21:46ASEAN member
21:47states to
21:48take the
21:48appropriate
21:49action,
21:50including
21:51the necessary
21:53measures like
21:55boycotting,
21:56sanctions,
21:57because we
21:58have, of
21:59course,
21:59some ASEAN
21:59member states
22:00are a bit
22:00more reluctant.
22:02So we
22:02leave it
22:03again to
22:04some of
22:04the different
22:05member states
22:06to decide
22:06what they
22:07want to
22:07do.
22:08ASEAN,
22:09unfortunately,
22:10is limited
22:10in a certain
22:11way.
22:13We cannot
22:13directly
22:14intervene
22:15because we
22:16are not,
22:17we are
22:18dealing with
22:18the 10
22:19and now
22:1911 countries
22:20coming up
22:21in the
22:21summit,
22:21Timor-Leste.
22:22Gaza, of
22:23course, is
22:23quite far
22:24away.
22:25But we
22:25have been
22:26using
22:26bilaterally
22:27our good
22:28officers,
22:29some of
22:29us,
22:30to engage
22:31and cooperate
22:32with organizations
22:33like the
22:34OIC and
22:35other
22:36international
22:37bodies like
22:38the UN
22:38to raise
22:39voices
22:40against the
22:41genocide.
22:42I, for
22:43one, will
22:43say that
22:44I'm trying
22:45my best,
22:46people don't
22:46see it,
22:47but I
22:47definitely do
22:48not want
22:49genocide and
22:50blood on
22:51our hands.
22:52Now, we
22:53are coming
22:53towards the
22:53end, but
22:53just some
22:54of your
22:54general
22:54thoughts and
22:55expectations
22:55from the
22:56ASEAN
22:56summit this
22:58month.
22:58Of course,
22:59as you
22:59said, you
22:59don't want
22:59to talk
23:00about
23:00President
23:00Trump,
23:01but
23:01unfortunately,
23:01I think
23:02he might
23:03be the
23:03star of
23:04the
23:04show.
23:04The
23:05limelight
23:05might
23:05unfortunately
23:06focus on
23:07world leaders
23:09such as
23:10himself,
23:10as opposed
23:11to the
23:11hard work
23:12that's being
23:12done by
23:12ASEAN
23:13member states
23:13and Aisha
23:14as well.
23:15What do
23:16you think,
23:17will human
23:18rights issues
23:18take center
23:19stage,
23:20much like
23:20it has
23:21with other
23:22international
23:23meetings,
23:24UN
23:24General
23:24Assembly,
23:26issues of
23:26Gaza and
23:27Myanmar
23:27taking center
23:29stage?
23:30Do you
23:30think that's
23:30rightly so?
23:32all I
23:33will say
23:34is at
23:34the
23:34commission
23:35when
23:36President
23:37Trump
23:37took
23:38office
23:38recently
23:39again,
23:41there is
23:41almost,
23:42I can
23:44say,
23:45substantial
23:46withdrawal
23:47of American
23:49support,
23:50American
23:50discourse on
23:51human rights
23:52in ASEAN.
23:53and I'm
23:56very sad
23:57because there
23:58is a lot
23:59of important
24:00aid that
24:01US agencies
24:03provide to
24:04people who
24:05need them,
24:05like on
24:06food,
24:06on health,
24:08also to
24:09the commission.
24:10So I will
24:11just say
24:11that if
24:13they want
24:13to become
24:13irrelevant to
24:14Southeast Asia
24:15and ASEAN,
24:16then that is
24:17their decision.
24:17I will
24:19not want
24:20to bet
24:21my dollar
24:22on them
24:24coming back,
24:25but just
24:26look ahead.
24:27We will
24:28be ASEAN,
24:29ASEAN-led,
24:30ASEAN-owned.
24:31We will rely
24:32on how we
24:32have been
24:33working.
24:34And the
24:35vacuum
24:36that America
24:37leaves on
24:38human rights
24:38in Southeast
24:39Asia is
24:40felt,
24:41but also
24:42the vacuum
24:42is now
24:43being filled
24:45by countries
24:46that were
24:46traditionally
24:47not active.
24:48China,
24:49not as
24:50active.
24:51Australia,
24:52the EU,
24:53everybody
24:53wants to
24:54come to
24:54ASEAN.
24:54ASEAN is
24:55the top
24:56of the
24:57global
24:58stage.
24:59ASEAN is
24:59in a sense
25:00very attractive
25:01for a lot
25:02of people,
25:03a lot of
25:03countries that
25:04want to
25:04make friends
25:05with us.
25:06So it's
25:07something that
25:08I take
25:08seriously,
25:09but for
25:10relevance to
25:11the commission
25:12at the
25:12moment,
25:13I will
25:14just say
25:14that we
25:14will continue
25:15with our
25:15work,
25:16we will
25:16continue to
25:17promote
25:17and protect
25:18human rights,
25:19and we
25:19will continue
25:20to defend
25:20the interest
25:21of not
25:21only Malaysia,
25:22but ASEAN's
25:24interest
25:25on human
25:27rights and
25:27on
25:28democratic
25:28values.
25:30Just
25:31final thoughts,
25:32one more
25:33thing,
25:33I want to
25:34get your
25:34thoughts on
25:35if you
25:36had to
25:36describe
25:37Malaysia's
25:37chairmanship
25:38of ASEAN
25:39and Aishar
25:40in this
25:40past year.
25:42We have
25:43been inclusive,
25:44very
25:45inclusive,
25:45we have
25:46had civil
25:47society
25:47participation
25:48in almost
25:49every
25:49program that
25:50we have
25:50done,
25:51including
25:51on our
25:52firework
25:52plans,
25:53our
25:53priority
25:54programs,
25:54this has
25:55never been
25:55done before,
25:56you can
25:56ask civil
25:56society,
25:57ask them
25:58what Malaysia
25:59has been
25:59trying to
26:00do,
26:00we have
26:00been very
26:01inclusive,
26:01we have
26:02also been
26:02very,
26:03in a sense,
26:04for substantive
26:05matters,
26:05sustainable,
26:08the two
26:08declarations I
26:09mentioned,
26:10supports our
26:11sustainability
26:11measures,
26:12but I
26:13think we
26:13have been
26:13also very
26:14forward-looking.
26:15The
26:152045 vision
26:17that Malaysia
26:17led in the
26:19negotiations
26:20adopted at
26:21the last
26:21summit,
26:22talks about
26:23a vision
26:23for people
26:24centred ASEAN.
26:26We cannot
26:27ignore issues
26:28that are real
26:29and issues
26:29that affect
26:30the most
26:30vulnerable
26:31and marginalised
26:32people on
26:33the ground.
26:35Thank you so
26:36much for sharing
26:37your thoughts,
26:37plenty to look
26:38forward to,
26:39of course,
26:39at the
26:39ASEAN Summit
26:40end of
26:40this month
26:41and perhaps
26:42we'll need
26:42to follow
26:42up after
26:43and see
26:44what the
26:45reception
26:45is like
26:45with the
26:46declaration
26:47or declarations
26:47we'll have
26:48to see.
26:49Thank you
26:49so much
26:49once again
26:49to His
26:50Excellency
26:50Edmund
26:51Bond,
26:51Chair of
26:51AICHA,
26:51for sharing
26:52some of
26:52his thoughts
26:53on what
26:53AICHA has
26:54been doing
26:54in the
26:54past year
26:55with
26:55Malaysia's
26:56Chairmanship
26:56of ASEAN.
26:57That is
26:57all on
26:58Awani Global
26:58at this
26:59hour.
26:59We'll see
26:59you again.
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