- 6 giờ trước
The Fifth Estate - Season 51 Episode 1 -
The Denial Machine
The Denial Machine
Danh mục
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03:19Phạm biểu bóng tài tử tử
03:21và đefrauding Cân dân tài tử.
03:24I'm about a month, month and a half
03:26từ khi ra khỏi mặt của mình.
03:28What we didn't know then
03:30was how the criminals
03:31were getting people's private information
03:33and how so many
03:34were getting away with it.
03:40Then we got a tantalizing tip,
03:42an email from someone who claimed
03:44they knew this breach
03:45was bigger than we ever imagined
03:46with tens of thousands
03:48of potential victims.
03:49Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:19Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:49Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:51Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:53Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:55Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:57Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:59Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:01Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:03Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:05Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:07Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:09Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:11Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:13Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:15Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:17Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:19Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:21Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:23Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:27And there it was.
05:30Heidi Gurman's personal information,
05:32her social insurance number,
05:33her middle name,
05:34her phone number,
05:35her date of birth,
05:36her home address.
05:40And it seemed they had plenty more information to share.
05:44Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:45Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:46Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:53Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:55Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:56Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:57Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:58Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
05:59Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:00Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:01Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:02Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:03Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:04Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:05Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:06Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:07Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
06:08Từ khi I first discovered, my identity was stolen in 2014.
06:12Interior Health is proud to be one of the top 100 places to work in Canada.
06:16The BC Health Authority boasted it was named one of Canada's top employers for 2025 on its YouTube site.
06:24With 29,000 employees, IH, as it's known, is one of the biggest employers in the region.
06:31Everyone is committed to making this an organization where people want to join, grow and stay.
06:37We are Interior Health.
06:43Stone's daughter, now 8 years old, wasn't even born when her mother's nightmare began.
06:48Like fellow nurse Leslie Warner, Stone has her own fraud file.
06:54What's this?
06:55This is everything that I've been dealing with for the past 10 years.
06:5910 years?
07:00Yeah.
07:01So where did it, how did it all begin?
07:03Someone had used Stone's name to take out credit cards at Canadian Tire, PC Financial, Future Shop, Best Buy, TD Bank and others.
07:13And then started racking up the bills.
07:16You can see this file is ridiculous.
07:19Just the amount of damage that they did in those first couple weeks took months and months to clear.
07:26And I've been dealing with it ever since.
07:29When Stone told her colleagues about being a victim of fraud, she discovered it wasn't just her.
07:35And that revealed a critical clue.
07:38It seemed their imposters had obtained all of their social insurance numbers.
07:43My mom was very stringent saying never give your social insurance number to anybody.
07:48In 2014, did you believe that the source of the information breach was your employer Interior Health?
07:56100%.
07:57Why were you so convinced?
07:59Because I haven't given my information out to anybody else.
08:02Nurse Tracy Maxfield worked on a different ward of the Kelowna General Hospital when a bank contacted her about credit card bills she knew nothing about.
08:12So she says she contacted IH about a possible data breach.
08:16Vehemently denied it.
08:19Absolutely impossible.
08:20We have a state of the art system.
08:22But how would they know it wasn't a data breach from Interior Health if they hadn't even launched an investigation to conclude that?
08:30Exactly, but it was dismissed immediately.
08:32Immediately?
08:33Immediately.
08:34So if executives at Interior Health were denying it, Maxfield decided to take matters into her own hands.
08:40She says she warned her colleagues directly about a possible data breach.
08:45Tracy, why are you sending an email out to warn your colleagues?
08:49Because it wasn't dealt with.
08:52I was actually reprimanded for sending the email because it was not my business to do that.
08:59Who reprimanded?
09:00You're reprimanded by someone?
09:02By management.
09:04Stone also warned the Health Authority about a possible breach and was met with a firm denial.
09:10There is no evidence to suggest IH is at fault.
09:15Had we had a large breach, it would be perceived that we would be seeing and hearing of thousands of employees' positions being impacted.
09:24This is not the case.
09:29So she fired back.
09:31While IH may not be convinced that they are the root of this breach, I am.
09:37My tolerance level is reaching a breaking point.
09:41I just felt, using nowadays terms, very gaslit by the whole situation.
09:48And I just felt I was banging on the wall.
09:53In fact, the Fifth Estate has learned multiple nurses and medical workers across the BC Interior began reporting their stolen identities to the Health Authority as far back as 2011.
10:05Pockets of victims in Kamloops, Vernon, Kelowna, Nelson and Creston.
10:11At least two dozen cities and towns.
10:14And yet IH remained firm in its position.
10:17If there was a data breach, it didn't come from them.
10:20So this is crazy.
10:22This doesn't happen by accident.
10:24That's what I am dumbfounded by.
10:27How could they not believe these individuals?
10:30We took the nurses' complaints to Ann Kavoukian, who served as Ontario's Privacy Commissioner for 17 years.
10:37What is the role of an institution like Interior Health at that point?
10:42Their role is to step up and get their staff to examine all of those cases.
10:49To look under the hood, if you will.
10:51How did those cases arise?
10:54I can't believe they just denied it.
11:01But those nurses finally found an ally here in Trail BC.
11:06At the local RCMP detachment, a constable named Stuart Ward was new to the force.
11:11And one day, a stolen identity case landed on his desk.
11:16And one of the front counter staff had put a report on there saying so-and-so had come in.
11:21They had a credit card from a store in their name.
11:24They hadn't applied for it.
11:25They didn't know anything about it.
11:26And then she concluded it with, coincidentally, this is the third hospital employee in the last few months who's had this complaint.
11:34And I thought that's not a coincidence.
11:39So Ward widened his search, looking up all recent fraud complaints filed with the RCMP in BC's Interior in 2014.
11:47He called one of the victims.
11:50It was Ashley Stone.
11:52So he called me in 2015.
11:54I was at work at the time.
11:56And he asked me who my employer was.
12:00And I said, Interior Health.
12:02And the pause.
12:03And I kind of pressed him a little bit more and said, is this through, like, is this all connected through Interior Health?
12:10And again, keeping his cards very close to his chest, kind of said, you're not the only one.
12:15At the end of it, I think I got up to either just shy of or just over 100 files.
12:20And every single one of them was an Interior Health employee, with the exception of one.
12:25Okay.
12:26But 99% of them Interior Health employees, invariably.
12:30What did that suggest to you?
12:32It suggested to me that Interior Health had a data breach.
12:36So Ward says he contacted IH, expecting they'd do something, he wasn't sure what, to help the stolen identity victims.
12:44That's beyond me.
12:46I'm just interested in trying to help those victims and see if I can't arrest the person who's used it.
12:51And he didn't stop there.
12:53Ward says he also contacted the office of BC's Privacy Commissioner in Victoria,
12:58after realizing this case was much bigger than one cop's small town investigation.
13:04He said everyone on this list is an Interior Health employee.
13:09And that's as far as that went.
13:12I never got another call back from the BC Privacy Commissioner's office.
13:17What did you expect the BC Privacy Commissioner's office would do?
13:21In my mind, I thought, well, they're going to call Interior Health and say,
13:24why did you lose all this data? You are responsible for it.
13:27So the Privacy Commissioner has the power and the mandate to be able to do that.
13:32Absolutely. When I was Privacy Commissioner, I did that many times.
13:35But the answer that they got from the Privacy Commissioner in BC was, there's nothing more we can do.
13:40But that's absurd. You don't just ask. You go in and investigate.
13:44You go into Interior Health and you say, man, look at your records.
13:48Soon after, Ward moved to an RCMP detachment in northern BC and his investigation was closed.
13:55He's since left the force.
13:57But the case of the Interior Health employees has haunted him ever since.
14:02It bothers me that nobody did anything initially when all of these people came forward and said,
14:06this is this problem I'm having. I think about this constantly.
14:09Because they're going to have this for the rest of their life.
14:12When we come back, victims are silenced as the denial machine kicks into high gear.
14:19I was basically told that we can't, if you go public, we can't help you.
14:23We can't make sure that you still have a job after this.
14:34Welcome to Royal Inland Hospital.
14:37For years, BC's Interior Health Authority has used PR campaigns like
14:41to promote a reputation as a socially responsible government agency.
14:46I'm here to announce that for the ninth time, we have been chosen as one of BC's top employers.
14:52And when IH needed a nurse to be the public face of a community vaccination campaign,
14:57who did they turn to?
14:59If you're a parent in BC's Interior and you've skipped some of your children's immunizations,
15:03don't skip this.
15:06While Ashley Stone was shooting this public service video,
15:09she was still dealing with the fallout from her identity theft.
15:13So she says she turned to her union for support.
15:17I wanted to go public and I had heard previously of colleagues being reprimanded
15:22for saying anything negative about the employer publicly.
15:25I was basically told that we can't, if you go public, we can't help you.
15:29We can't make sure that you still have a job after this.
15:31And which has helped sort of keep a lid on the size and the scope and the damage
15:37of this whole security breach.
15:39Yeah.
15:40So many people are still nervous.
15:41I just ran into a friend the other day and she's like,
15:43I need this job and I'm so afraid that if I say anything, I won't have one.
15:48It takes just a quick drive around Stone's Kelowna neighborhood to realize the impact this data breach
15:56has had on health care workers in BC.
15:59My neighbor right down there, she found out just a week ago or so that she was the victim of identity theft.
16:10Definitely a few people who live up there have been victims of identity theft.
16:15I also have one friend who just lives up on this corner here.
16:20So it's not that we all live in the same neighborhood.
16:23It's just that there's so many of us.
16:25Which raises the question, how did Interior Health keep the lid on this for so long?
16:32Back in 2017, the RCMP made a breakthrough in the case.
16:37The Mounties turned up documents in two unrelated arrests in BC's Lower Mainland
16:42with the personal information, including names and the social insurance numbers
16:46of 500 current and former IH employees.
16:52This would be a turning point for Interior Health.
16:55For years, the Health Authority had been admonishing its own employees for believing there'd been a data breach.
17:01And now it appeared IH had a major problem on its hands.
17:05But that's when the denial machine kicked into high gear.
17:09The Health Authority said an IT consultant's report concluded there was a breach, but it was limited to those 500 names
17:19and found no evidence of further breaches.
17:22IH insisted this was reassuring.
17:25No mention of all the other cases that known about for years.
17:29We asked the Health Authority for a copy of the consultant's report.
17:33Our request was denied.
17:36What message does this send to the fraudsters themselves?
17:42Keep at it.
17:44You're free and clear to continue doing what you're doing.
17:48See, that's what I find appalling, to come out with that kind of statement.
17:53I don't even know how anyone could make a statement like that.
17:56So self-assured.
17:58Three years after Interior Health said it was reassuring there was no evidence of a widespread breach,
18:04an imposter took over the CRA account of Fernie nurse Leslie Warner.
18:09Her fraudster went to an H&R Block office in Alberta to cash in a fake tax return.
18:14And then...
18:16They had made three children's birth certificates under my name, me being the mother,
18:22and they were claiming Alberta Social Services.
18:26Tax benefits or child benefits?
18:29Tax benefits.
18:30Yeah, child benefits with my identity.
18:32And even then, her problems weren't over yet.
18:35Far from it.
18:37I got a call that the RCMP had some papers to serve me.
18:41I met the RCMP at my house here.
18:44And I said, oh, have I been called for jury duty?
18:47And he said, no, actually, these are criminal charges.
18:52She was taken to the local RCMP detachment where the Mounties snapped her mugshot,
18:57took her fingerprints, and explained she was being charged for crimes in Alberta.
19:02I wouldn't wish on anyone. It's a complete nightmare.
19:06And who's your advocate? Who's standing up and fighting for you?
19:09No one. There's nobody.
19:11And our investigation has revealed Warner was just one of many interior health victims
19:18who had their CRA accounts hacked through H&R Block locations in Alberta.
19:26Criminal networks in cities and towns across Alberta were also taking out fraudulent credit cards and car loans,
19:32from Edmonton to Whitecourt, Red Deer to Lethbridge.
19:37But how did they get a hold of so many names from British Columbia?
19:43And that's when our source we're calling anonymous dropped a bombshell.
19:47He sent us a spreadsheet with the stolen personal information of 28,000 people living in BC's interior.
19:54Names, social insurance numbers, birthdates, phone numbers.
19:5928,000 people.
20:02That's enough to fill this Kelowna hockey rink four times over.
20:08And anonymous pointed the fingers straight at Interior Health.
20:12The list I provided was compiled from Interior Health in British Columbia,
20:17and it was obtained through a data leak years ago.
20:20This information has been sold and distributed to thousands of people over the past five to six years.
20:27As we scoured the list, we found some familiar names.
20:32Leslie Warner, Ashley Stone, and Tracy Maxfield.
20:37In fact, every person we contacted on that list was a current or former employee of BC's Interior Health Authority.
20:46So we returned to Creston and Jimmy's Pub.
20:54Heidi Gurman told us last year she wanted to know how her identity was stolen.
20:59Now we had an answer.
21:01So after our story aired, somebody got in touch with us who said, I know how Heidi Gurman's identity was stolen.
21:11Like my name?
21:12Yes.
21:13What?
21:14He singled you out.
21:16Specifically.
21:17Yeah.
21:18Huh.
21:19Okay, that's creepy.
21:20And sent us a screenshot of a list that he had bought on the dark web.
21:29We showed her the list we were leaked by anonymous, and it hit close to home for Gurman,
21:34who'd worked as a drug and alcohol counsellor for Interior Health back in 2008.
21:40Yeah, there you are.
21:41Yeah, you're not the only Gurman.
21:43No.
21:44Natalie is my sister.
21:45Esther is my sister.
21:46Judy and Kelvin are my parents.
21:49So why would all of their names...
21:51We all worked for Interior Health.
21:53You all worked for Interior Health.
21:54We all worked for Interior Health.
21:55Yeah.
21:56And you're all on this list.
21:57Yeah.
21:58For five tumultuous years, Leslie Warner also had no idea how her identity was stolen until
22:08we told her.
22:09So that was crazy news to hear.
22:12So that is frustrating, and it's frustrating that as each month passes, there's probably
22:19more victims that it's actively happening to, and yeah, I just don't know when it'll
22:26stop.
22:27When we come back, we go on the hunt for the imposters.
22:31My name's Mark Kelly.
22:32I'm at CBC Television.
22:34Fit to state.
22:48Good morning.
22:49I'm Chris Walker in Kelowna.
22:50This is Daybreak on CBC Radio 1.
22:52If you were in BC's interior this spring, it was hard to miss an
22:56emerging scandal that some say had been buried for a decade.
23:01New developments this morning in that Interior Health data breach that we told you about back
23:04in April.
23:05The personal information of thousands of Interior Health employees stolen and then sold via the
23:10dark web to identity thieves.
23:12In Fifth Estates, Mark Kelly is on the line from Creston this morning where he's been speaking
23:17with some victims of stolen identity.
23:19Good morning, Mark.
23:21Chris, good morning.
23:22You know, we're talking about social insurance number, you know, phone numbers, address, you
23:28know, the information that can be used for identity theft.
23:31So that's one concern that's been raised by some of the employees there.
23:35And their concerns go back, Chris, more than a decade.
23:40And Mark, you'll be in Kelowna later today hoping to talk with more Interior Health employees.
23:45Safe travels.
23:46Thanks so much, Chris.
23:47Now, in the meantime, if you've been affected by that data breach at Interior Health, Mark
23:52and the rest of the team at the Fifth Estate would like to hear from you.
24:03My name is Andrea Harris.
24:05My name is David Lechrist.
24:06My name is Chandra Hauer.
24:08My name is Sheldon Ambler.
24:09My name is Laura Buston.
24:11My name is Kathleen Reimer.
24:12My name is Randy Johnson.
24:14You're all going through this.
24:16What do you want them to know?
24:18And show up they did.
24:20An informal town hall.
24:22Hospital employee after hospital employee.
24:25I realized my identity was stolen in early 2023.
24:30I was a victim of fraud in 2022.
24:33It was two years ago, the first time my identity was stolen and once again last week.
24:38I had my identity stolen in 2021.
24:41It was October of 2022 that I realized my identity had been stolen.
24:46Randy Johnson said his identity was used at least 10 times to take out credit cards and buy jet skis.
24:56At one point I was under underwater about $170,000.
24:59We had a bailiff at our house telling my wife and I at the front door early on a Sunday morning that they were going to take our house, that I had the wave runners.
25:11He knew I had the wave runners and my debt was never going to go away and they were going to take all our assets.
25:18I had a full list of credit cards all taken out, over $20,000 all in my name.
25:25So, yeah.
25:27It was, and I was a, I was a newly single parent.
25:31So it was really tough because you're navigating being a single mom with two kids and then this.
25:39So it was, it was really tough.
25:41Somebody took its soul on you?
25:42Mm-hmm.
25:43When I filed the police report, the police said, well, do you work for Interior Health?
25:47I said, yeah.
25:48It was awful.
25:49Like, you know, I, I worked my buns off to get to where I am.
25:53I have excellent credit.
25:55And someone just came and stole that all the way from me.
25:58You know, 20 years of hard work, basically.
26:01The biggest one is the CRA fraud where they had completely accessed my CRA account through an ancient or block in Calgary.
26:09How much was it?
26:10Do you remember?
26:11It's in the 30s.
26:12$30,000.
26:13They say I owe them and owe taxes.
26:15Did Interior Health tell you that your identity has been stolen?
26:19They never told me no.
26:21It's, it's scary.
26:22Like, it's a, it's a very scary feeling to know that there could be debt out there in my name that I'm going to have to fight to prove that it's not me.
26:31And do you feel anyone's helping you in your fight?
26:34Nobody's helping me.
26:35No.
26:36You trust your employer.
26:37Like, we work in a health authority, so patient confidentiality is absolute most important.
26:43You expect your employer to do the same with your information.
26:46That statement is within two minutes.
26:49And the anger spread from the BC Interior to the BC Capital.
26:53The Fifth Estate found that the stolen identities taken from Interior Health employees have been used for fraudulent CRA refunds and loans.
27:05The BC Conservatives demanded answers about a health authority plagued with problems.
27:11What kind of gong show is this government running in Interior Health?
27:16You can't get a doctor or count on an ER room, but if you're a nurse, you can now count on your information being stolen.
27:25This government takes the privacy of information incredibly seriously, as do the health authorities.
27:31So who are these imposters?
27:35We got back in touch with Anonymous, the self-proclaimed ex-criminal who leaked us the list.
27:40According to Anonymous, the list was likely stolen in 2009 and later posted for sale on the dark web.
27:48I first obtained it in 2017.
27:51This information has been sold and distributed to thousands of people.
27:56$15 a name, or $1,000 for the whole list.
28:01Anonymous said there are tutorials on the dark web for how to use the stolen names, but by invitation only.
28:08It's a closed loop of criminals, and the only way to get in is to be vouched for by another member.
28:18We wanted to find the members of this criminal operation.
28:21We searched the fraud files of three victims.
28:24Heidi Gurman, Leslie Warner, and a former IH employee from Salmon Arm who wanted to keep her identity confidential.
28:31In her file, we discovered an address in rural Alberta used to apply for credit cards in her name.
28:41So we headed to the small community of Sylvan Lake.
28:46Our online digging led us to this Facebook post belonging to someone named Nicole Rae Armstrong.
28:53She was charged with possessing identity documents belonging to three Interior Health employees.
28:59The charges were withdrawn for procedural reasons.
29:03Armstrong now faces 21 new criminal charges, 18 of them fraud related.
29:09We wanted to talk to her.
29:21There's nobody here.
29:23Or if there's somebody that would be made.
29:25But it seems she didn't want to talk to us.
29:28So we followed up with a phone call.
29:31Hello?
29:32Hi there.
29:33Can I speak to Nicole, please?
29:35Uh, yeah.
29:37Hello?
29:38Hi there.
29:39Is this Nicole?
29:40Why do people always hang up on me?
29:45We then went looking for Leslie Warner's imposter, the Fernie nurse who was charged with crimes committed in her name.
29:58This little bungalow in Edmonton played a key role in Leslie Warner's identity theft.
30:04The Canada Revenue Agency had this listed as her address.
30:09She was also named as the director of a bogus company that was supposedly headquartered here.
30:14We don't know her imposter's real name, but this is the fake ID police told Warner they use to get fraudulent child tax benefits.
30:23But when we showed up, the house was empty.
30:37Sounds empty.
30:38Leslie Warner's imposter long gone.
30:40We then went to track down Heidi Gurman's imposter, the bartender from Creston, BC.
30:46We obtained a credit card statement used by the imposters to scam this restaurant.
30:51We obtained CCTV footage and there she was.
30:55We've identified the woman as Christina Chirpak.
30:58She has a lengthy criminal record including charges of identity theft.
31:02Then we got a break.
31:05Turns out she had a court date in Edmonton.
31:08So we went to the courthouse to find her.
31:11Hey Christina.
31:13My name's Mark Kelly.
31:14I'm at CBC Television.
31:16I'm at Fifth Estate.
31:17Chirpak's appearance had changed since we revealed her identity in our last documentary.
31:22I just want to ask you questions about the identity theft.
31:25I just want to find out how you got those names that you could use with the stolen identity.
31:31Christina, what will you say to the victims who've had their lives turned upside down?
31:37Christina, you can't just walk away from this.
31:40Chirpak never uttered a word in her own defence.
31:48Hi.
31:49Nice to see you again.
31:50Yeah, you too.
31:51Back in Creston, we showed Heidi Gurman the footage of our encounter with Christina Chirpak.
31:57Shortly after this, she gets in a cab and drives away.
32:01Yeah.
32:02And essentially, she's free, walking free.
32:06Yeah.
32:07You're still trying to rebuild your name.
32:10Yeah.
32:11What would you want someone like Christina to know about the consequences of her actions?
32:18I think the biggest thing is, yeah, there's real people behind these names and these numbers and these identities, right?
32:29Do you think that Interior Health has taken this seriously?
32:31Well, I've never heard from them.
32:33So I don't even think they know.
32:35So, no, I don't.
32:37BC's Interior Health Authority continues to take no responsibility for the security breach, refuses to apologize to its frontline workers,
32:49and denied our request for an on-camera interview saying the matter is being investigated by the RCMP.
32:56When we come back, we take the fraud victims' concerns straight to BC's Health Minister.
33:02Mark Kelly from the CBC program at Fifth Estate.
33:05Yeah.
33:16It was the spring of 2024, and for 10 long years, BC's Interior Health Authority had been denying it was responsible for a massive data breach.
33:26And then another RCMP revelation would make that claim even more difficult.
33:31The Mounties found a list with a staggering 20,000 stolen identities, including the names of 7,000 current IH employees.
33:40IH's VP of Digital Health spoke to Global News.
33:44We're actually unaware of, unsure of how this information came into possession of the individual when the RCMP discovered the file.
33:52But it is concerning, it's sensitive information.
33:56For the victims, this just confirmed what they already knew.
34:00But in that Global News interview, Interior Health treated the news like a lightning bolt out of the blue.
34:06We want to reach out to employees, both active and inactive, and make sure they're aware of this discovery and have the opportunity to protect their identity through credit monitoring.
34:17Then the denial machine kicked into gear once again.
34:22Unlike in 2017, the IH press release didn't call this a breach.
34:27Instead, it was referred to as an information incident.
34:30In a message to employees, IH said external security experts concluded this information is not circulating on the dark web,
34:39a forum where criminals buy and sell stolen information.
34:42Again, we asked IH for the report.
34:45Again, IH refused our request.
34:48The former criminal anonymous dismissed any suggestion the list was not for sale through the dark web.
34:57That is untrue, as me personally, as well as others, have bought it on telegram shops and other dark web forums.
35:07I'm sure they released that statement as a protection from liability and act like it's not that big of a leak.
35:15Why do you think there's been this failure to take responsibility?
35:20Do you believe that they honestly believe the leak did not come from them?
35:24I think it would be hard to deny it at this point, but I think it just opens them up too.
35:29It opens a Pandora's box of liability and accountability that it's easier to sweep under the rug and hopefully it will go away.
35:38But it's not going away.
35:42Just ask these people.
35:44I tried to sign a loan for my son going to university, like a $6,000 line of credit, and they wouldn't approve it.
35:52And I didn't know why.
35:53And now I think, now I know why.
35:55There must be something going on.
35:57So I'm really scared that there's stuff out there in my name and I still don't know about it.
36:01Because I think they should pay for what they've done.
36:05Like it was brutal.
36:07Like I almost got turned down for buying a house because my credit was so bad.
36:14So Interior Health offered its employees two years of credit monitoring, calling it a precautionary measure, as if their identity theft had never even happened.
36:24I said to them, that is useless to me.
36:26I'm already a victim.
36:27It had been over almost a year and there's no one to help.
36:32Shame on IHA.
36:33That's all I have to say.
36:35I worked for them for a long time.
36:38And if that's, I mean once they have your sin number, the criminals, you're done.
36:48Which brings us back to the former RCMP constable who set off alarm bells with his investigation a decade ago, Stuart Ward.
36:56I think that any of these companies that are losing personal data should be on the hook for ensuring that these people are safe, unfortunately, for the rest of their lives.
37:06Throwing out these two year credit check reports isn't helping anyone because two years from now you still have the same personal information.
37:15So somebody has to help them.
37:17And yet so many of them tell us that they were the ones who were made to feel like they did something wrong.
37:23And they didn't do anything wrong.
37:24They didn't do anything wrong.
37:25There was nothing that a single one of those victims could have done to prevent any of this happening.
37:29This is not their fault.
37:31You know, the first thing I should probably say is that I really feel for the victims of this breach and this identity theft and what's happened to those folks.
37:42So we headed to Victoria to meet BC's Information and Privacy Commissioner Michael Harvey.
37:48Appointed just last year, he echoed what many victims believe, but Interior Health continues to deny.
37:55Is the source of that leak, was it Interior Health?
37:59My understanding is that this information came from Interior Health.
38:04That's my understanding.
38:05We have not conducted an investigation that concludes that, but that is my understanding.
38:10Still, Commissioner Harvey says he won't investigate Interior Health's handling of the breach.
38:17Their obligation is to take reasonable safeguards.
38:20And so I need to have evidence.
38:25We have a list of 28,000 names with their social insurance numbers, their personal information.
38:30What more evidence do you need at that point?
38:32I would need to have evidence to show that that information was gotten onto the dark web through them failing to meet their legal obligations.
38:42But you understand how unsatisfying that is going to be for the people whose names are on this list?
38:48It is not within my authority to do anything that could assist these people.
38:53Who can then?
38:54Well, I think that law enforcement can and the courts can.
38:59And the Privacy Commissioner, where are they? They should be all over this.
39:03Former Ontario Privacy Commissioner Ann Kavoukian says it's time the B.C. government took responsibility since Interior Health hasn't.
39:12This is why you have to go to the Minister of Health and the Premier.
39:15Because you can't engage these individuals.
39:20They're not speaking to you responsibly.
39:22They're not telling you the truth.
39:24They're covering things up, obviously.
39:26And you need someone to say to them, open up.
39:31You have to be truthful about this.
39:34We have to discontinue this activity of covering up.
39:37I am really honoured to serve as B.C.'s Minister of Health.
39:41We sent multiple requests to B.C.'s Health Minister Josie Osborne for an interview.
39:46Her office eventually declined, also citing an RCMP investigation.
39:51So we showed up to an industry-sponsored event to bring the victim's concerns directly to her.
39:57We waited as she posed for selfies.
40:00We were the only journalists in attendance.
40:03I understand your time constraints. I respect you.
40:06Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
40:08We told her Chief of Staff why we were here.
40:11Watch as she warns the Minister we had questions about Interior Health.
40:15I don't have a good time.
40:18Very quickly, Minister Osborne.
40:20Well, real quick.
40:21Mark Kelly from the CBC program at Fifth Estate.
40:23Hello.
40:24We've just come here from Toronto for a couple of questions for you.
40:26Yeah.
40:27We've spent months now investigating the data breach at Interior Health.
40:31Will you and your government now acknowledge that Interior Health is responsible for that data breach?
40:37Thank you very much. I'd love to follow up with a conversation. We are going to go catch our plane right now.
40:42The data breach occurred in 2009.
40:45Thank you, though.
40:46It's 2025.
40:47Oops, sorry. Thank you.
40:49The nurses have been waiting for some answers.
40:51Thank you.
40:52Some truth and transparency on this.
40:53We do have to run.
40:55Will you apologize for the inconvenience that this has caused?
40:59Not.
41:00Thank you for any questions.
41:01We'll follow up.
41:02For sure.
41:03We have been asking you for weeks.
41:05Sorry, Mark.
41:06We will.
41:07For weeks.
41:08And now we're here.
41:09Yeah.
41:10We'll follow up.
41:11You're walking away from your own employees.
41:21Unbelievable.
41:25We never did hear back.
41:35Back in Kelowna, we showed our exchange with the Health Minister to Ashley Stone.
41:40It's kind of been the theme throughout this whole experience anyway.
41:46So I guess it's unfortunate, but I'm not surprised.
41:50There's no resolution.
41:51There's no, there's no, like, here's the way and it's going to get fixed for you.
41:57It's just like this is an unfortunate road to go down and nobody cares.
42:01After 16 years as a registered nurse and a decade fighting interior health to get some accountability, Stone has decided to leave nursing.
42:11But she won't give up the fight.
42:13Oh, I honestly just want to put all of this behind me and forget it ever happened.
42:19And I just also just want to continue to be an advocate for my colleagues who are still working full time and need that work full time and feel too afraid to speak up because I'm not afraid to speak up anymore.
42:34It's never over.
42:37It's never over.
42:38It's never over.
42:40They have your personal information.
42:43It's never going to end.
42:45They can use it at any time.
42:46It's public information now.
42:49And I could be 80 years old and still be dealing with this.
42:52I'm Joanna Rumaliotis.
43:06Next week on The Fifth Estate.
43:08As the world watches what comes next in Gaza.
43:15There's quieter but intensifying violence in the West Bank.
43:19Back to the car.
43:20Back to the car.
43:21Back to the car.
43:23We're in the West Bank village of Sousia where Palestinians here say they live under constant threat of attack by Israeli settlers.
43:30How are they asleep here?
43:31You see the blood?
43:33Oh my goodness.
43:34Everybody's here, eh?
43:35Yeah.
43:36Oh my gosh.
43:37Hi.
43:38The International Court of Justice calls the settlements illegal.
43:42Canada says they undermine a future Palestinian state.
43:45Ottawa condemns the escalating violence.
43:48But our investigation reveals Canadian charities are sending millions of tax deductible dollars to Israeli groups intent on forcing Palestinians off this land.
43:58We are financing war criminality through our charitable system.
44:05These aren't settlers.
44:06These are Jews who have returned to the cradle of Jewish civilization.
44:10What's the logic behind shutting down homes and shops along the street?
44:14To remove Palestinians from their homes.
44:16That's it.
44:17That's the only excuse.
44:19If we want peace, we have to give up that which we think is ours in order to make peace possible.
44:26That's next week on The Fifth Estate.
44:28The Fifth Estate.
44:29The Fifth Estate.
44:30and the Fourth Estate..
44:31the Fourth Estate.
44:40The Fourth Estate.
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