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The Fifth Estate Season 51 Episode 1
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FunTranscript
00:00On this edition of The 5th Estate.
00:08I was a victim of fraud in 2022.
00:12I had my identity stolen in 2021.
00:15I realized my identity was stolen in early 2023.
00:19We're in the interior of British Columbia where a massive security breach has upended the lives of thousands of healthcare workers.
00:27I said, oh, have I been called for jury duty? And he said, no, actually, these are criminal charges.
00:34We investigate the breach.
00:36Did you believe that the source of the information breach was your employer, Interior Health?
00:42100%.
00:44And a decade of denials from a BC government agency.
00:48What kind of gong show is this government running in Interior Health?
00:52Your role is to step in and investigate.
00:56I can't believe they just denied it.
00:59And we'll take you inside criminal networks using the dark web to steal identities and steal from you, the Canadian taxpayer.
01:07I just want to ask you questions about the identity theft.
01:11I just want to find out how you got those names that you could use with the stolen identity.
01:18I'm Mark Kelly. This is the Fifth Estate.
01:21This is British Columbia's rugged interior.
01:39A massive data breach has brought us here, leaving a trail of victims of fraud and identity theft.
01:48This could happen to you, and if it does, you may never even know.
01:53That's exactly what's happened to a nurse here in the town of Fernie.
01:57We've come to meet her.
02:00Leslie.
02:02Hi.
02:03I'm Mark Kelly.
02:04Hi. Good to meet you.
02:05Nice to meet you.
02:06Can I come in?
02:07Come on in.
02:09Her name is Leslie Warner.
02:11Start at the beginning.
02:13What is this?
02:15This is the fraud file.
02:17Her odyssey began in 2021 when she discovered someone stole her personal information.
02:23Her social insurance number, her date of birth, her home address.
02:27And then hacked into her Canada Revenue Agency account to file a bogus tax return in her name.
02:34I logged into my CRA account and I noticed notice of assessments for returns I had not filed.
02:41My address had changed.
02:43My bank account had changed and I just kept saying, oh my God, this is bad.
02:48At one point it was like between CERB benefits, false tax returns and the Alberta social services stuff,
02:57I guess made like probably around 30 grand I would say was taken under my name.
03:03Wow.
03:04They stole with your name.
03:05In one way or another.
03:06They stole from the Canadian taxpayer but in your name.
03:08Before anybody stopped anything.
03:10Yeah.
03:11Earlier this year, a Fifth Estate investigation revealed multiple cases of impostors hacking into people's CRA accounts,
03:19filing bogus tax returns and defrauding Canadian taxpayers.
03:24About a month, a month and a half away from losing my house.
03:27What we didn't know then was how the criminals were getting people's private information
03:33and how so many were getting away with it.
03:36Then we got a tantalizing tip.
03:42An email from someone who claimed they knew this breach was bigger than we ever imagined with tens of thousands of potential victims.
03:49Dear CBC Fifth Estate Team, as an ex-criminal who was involved in similar activities in the past, I now want to help others and right my wrongs.
04:02I wish to remain anonymous, but I believe the details I have could be crucial to your investigation.
04:12That investigation revealed the CRA was duped by an impostor using the name and social insurance number of a BC woman named Heidi Gurman to get their fake tax refund.
04:23So last year we found the real Heidi Gurman tending bar at Jimmy's Pub in the town of Preston.
04:35Then we have also from Stanley Park, which is from Vancouver, the Amber Ale.
04:41She had no idea who her impostor was, but she did know the CRA was now demanding that she pay back the money stolen in her name.
04:50What do you want to know? Do you want to know who's responsible for this?
04:56Yeah, I would love to know who's responsible because I'd actually really love to know how to get my identity back.
05:04How to get my identity back.
05:08This was an opening for Anonymous to prove how Gurman's identity was stolen and that they were an ally in our investigation.
05:16I've attached one of the identities as proof that this tip is legitimate and not a false claim.
05:23Sincerely, Anonymous.
05:27And there it was.
05:30Heidi Gurman's personal information, her social insurance number, her middle name, her phone number, her date of birth, her home address.
05:39And it seemed they had plenty more information to share.
05:44Please feel free to contact me back at this email address.
05:48This Kelowna nurse knew nothing about Anonymous, but we'd soon learn Anonymous had a connection to her.
06:02My name is Ashley Stone. I've been employed as a registered nurse since 2009 at Interior Health and I first discovered my identity was stolen in 2014.
06:12Interior Health is proud to be one of the top 100 places to work in Canada.
06:17The BC Health Authority boasted it was named one of Canada's top employers for 2025 on its YouTube site.
06:24With 29,000 employees, IH, as it's known, is one of the biggest employers in the region.
06:31Everyone is committed to making this an organization where people want to join, grow and stay.
06:37We are Interior Health.
06:39Stone's daughter, now eight years old, wasn't even born when her mother's nightmare began.
06:49Like fellow nurse, Leslie Warner, Stone has her own fraud file.
06:54Yeah.
06:55What's this?
06:56This is everything that I've been dealing with for the past ten years.
07:00Ten years?
07:01Yeah.
07:02So where did it, how did it all begin?
07:04Someone had used Stone's name to take out credit cards at Canadian Tire, PC Financial, Future Shop, Best Buy, TD Bank and others.
07:14And then started racking up the bills.
07:17You can see this file is ridiculous.
07:20Just the amount of damage that they did in those first couple weeks took months and months to clear.
07:27And I've been dealing with it ever since.
07:30When Stone told her colleagues about being a victim of fraud, she discovered it wasn't just her.
07:36And that revealed a critical clue.
07:39It seemed their imposters had obtained all of their social insurance numbers.
07:44My mom was very stringent saying never give your social insurance number to anybody.
07:49In 2014, did you believe that the source of the information breach was your employer, Interior Health?
07:57100%.
07:58Why were you so convinced?
07:59Because I haven't given my information out to anybody else.
08:02Nurse Tracy Maxfield worked on a different ward of the Kelowna General Hospital when a bank contacted her about credit card bills she knew nothing about.
08:12So she says she contacted IH about a possible data breach.
08:16Rehemently denied it.
08:19Absolutely impossible.
08:20We have a state of the art system.
08:23But how would they know it wasn't a data breach from Interior Health if they hadn't even launched an investigation to conclude that?
08:30Well, exactly.
08:31But it was dismissed immediately.
08:32Immediately?
08:33Immediately.
08:34So if executives at Interior Health were denying it, Maxfield decided to take matters into her own hands.
08:41She says she warned her colleagues directly about a possible data breach.
08:46Tracy, why are you sending an email out to warn your colleagues?
08:50Because it wasn't dealt with.
08:53I was actually reprimanded for sending the email because it was not my business to do that.
09:00Who reprimanded? You're reprimanded by someone?
09:03By management.
09:05Stone also warned the Health Authority about a possible breach and was met with a firm denial.
09:12There is no evidence to suggest IH is at fault.
09:16Had we had a large breach, it would be perceived that we would be seeing and hearing of thousands of employees' positions being impacted.
09:25This is not the case.
09:30So she fired back.
09:33While IH may not be convinced that they are the root of this breach, I am.
09:38My tolerance level is reaching a breaking point.
09:42I just felt, using nowadays terms, very gaslit by the whole situation.
09:49And I just felt I was banging on the wall.
09:53In fact, the Fifth Estate has learned multiple nurses and medical workers across the BC Interior began reporting their stolen identities to the Health Authority as far back as 2011.
10:06Pockets of victims in Kamloops, Vernon, Kelowna, Nelson and Creston.
10:12At least two dozen cities and towns.
10:14And yet IH remained firm in its position.
10:18If there was a data breach, it didn't come from them.
10:22So this is crazy.
10:23This doesn't happen by accident.
10:25That's what I am dumbfounded by.
10:28How could they not believe these individuals?
10:30We took the nurses' complaints to Ann Kavoukian, who served as Ontario's Privacy Commissioner for 17 years.
10:38What is the role of an institution like Interior Health at that point?
10:43Their role is to step up and get their staff to examine all of those cases, to look under the hood, if you will.
10:51How did those cases arise?
10:55I can't believe they just denied it.
11:02But those nurses finally found an ally here in Trail, BC.
11:07At the local RCMP detachment, a constable named Stuart Ward was new to the force.
11:13And one day, a stolen identity case landed on his desk.
11:16And one of the front counter staff had put a report on there saying so-and-so had come in.
11:22They had a credit card from a store in their name.
11:25They hadn't applied for it.
11:26They didn't know anything about it.
11:28And then she concluded it with,
11:30Coincidentally, this is the third hospital employee in the last few months who's had this complaint.
11:37And I thought, that's not a coincidence.
11:40So Ward widened his search, looking up all recent fraud complaints filed with the RCMP.
11:45in BC's Interior in 2014.
11:49He called one of the victims.
11:51It was Ashley Stone.
11:53So he called me in 2015.
11:55I was at work at the time.
11:57And he asked me who my employer was.
12:01And I said, Interior Health.
12:04And the pause.
12:05And I kind of pressed him a little bit more and said, is this through, like, is this all connected through Interior Health?
12:11And again, keeping his cards very close to his chest, kind of said, you're not the only one.
12:16At the end of it, I think I got up to either just shy of or just over 100 files.
12:21And every single one of them was an Interior Health employee, with the exception of one.
12:25Okay.
12:26But 99% of them, Interior Health employees, invariably.
12:31What did that suggest to you?
12:33It suggested to me that Interior Health had a data breach.
12:36So Ward says he contacted IH expecting they'd do something, he wasn't sure what, to help the stolen identity victims.
12:45That's beyond me.
12:47I'm just interested in trying to help those victims and see if I can't arrest the person who's used it.
12:52And he didn't stop there.
12:55Ward says he also contacted the office of BC's Privacy Commissioner in Victoria after realizing this case was much bigger than one cop's small town investigation.
13:06I said everyone on this list is an Interior Health employee.
13:12And that's as far as that went.
13:14I never got another call back from the BC Privacy Commissioner's office.
13:18What did you expect the BC Privacy Commissioner's office would do?
13:22In my mind, I thought, well, they're going to call Interior Health and say, why did you lose all this data?
13:27You are responsible for it.
13:29So the Privacy Commissioner has the power and the mandate to be able to do that.
13:33Absolutely. When I was Privacy Commissioner, I did that many times.
13:36But the answer that they got from the Privacy Commissioner in BC was, there's nothing more we can do.
13:42But that's absurd. You don't just ask. You go in and investigate.
13:45You go into Interior Health and you say, man, look at your records.
13:49Soon after, Ward moved to an RCMP detachment in northern BC and his investigation was closed.
13:57He's since left the force.
13:59But the case of the Interior Health employees has haunted him ever since.
14:03It bothers me that nobody did anything initially when all of these people came forward and said, this is this problem I'm having.
14:09I think about this constantly because they're going to have this for the rest of their life.
14:12When we come back, victims are silenced as the denial machine kicks into high gear.
14:20I was basically told that we can't, if you go public, we can't help you.
14:24We can't make sure that you still have a job after this.
14:26Welcome to Royal Inland Hospital.
14:38For years, BC's Interior Health Authority has used PR campaigns like this to promote a reputation as a socially responsible government agency.
14:47I'm here to announce that for the ninth time we have been chosen as one of BC's top employers.
14:54And when IH needed a nurse to be the public face of a community vaccination campaign, who did they turn to?
15:01If you're a parent in BC's Interior and you've skipped some of your children's immunizations, don't skip this.
15:05While Ashley Stone was shooting this public service video, she was still dealing with the fallout from her identity theft.
15:14So she says she turned to her union for support.
15:17I wanted to go public and I had heard previously of colleagues being reprimanded for saying anything negative about the employer publicly.
15:26I was basically told that we can't, if you go public, we can't help you.
15:30We can't make sure that you still have a job after this.
15:32And which has helped sort of keep a lid on the size and the scope and the damage of this whole security breach.
15:40Yeah.
15:41So many people are still nervous.
15:42I just ran into a friend the other day and she's like, I need this job and I'm so afraid that if I say anything I won't have one.
15:51It takes just a quick drive around Stone's Kelowna neighbourhood to realise the impact this data breach has had on healthcare workers in BC.
15:59My neighbour right down there, she found out just a week ago or so that she was the victim of identity theft.
16:11Definitely a few people who live up there have been victims of identity theft.
16:16I also have one friend who just lives up on this corner here.
16:20So it's not that we all live in the same neighbourhood, it's just that there's so many of us.
16:26Which raises the question, how did Interior Health keep the lid on this for so long?
16:33Back in 2017, the RCMP made a breakthrough in the case.
16:37The Mounties turned up documents in two unrelated arrests in BC's Lower Mainland with the personal information,
16:44including names and the social insurance numbers of 500 current and former IH employees.
16:51This would be a turning point for Interior Health.
16:56For years the Health Authority had been admonishing its own employees for believing there'd been a data breach.
17:02And now it appeared IH had a major problem on its hands.
17:06But that's when the denial machine kicked into high gear.
17:10The Health Authority said an IT consultant's report concluded there was a breach,
17:17but it was limited to those 500 names and found no evidence of further breaches.
17:23IH insisted this was reassuring.
17:26No mention of all the other cases that known about for years.
17:30We asked the Health Authority for a copy of the consultant's report.
17:34Our request was denied.
17:36What message does this send to the fraudsters themselves?
17:41Keep at it.
17:44You're free and clear to continue doing what you're doing.
17:49See, that's what I find appalling, to come out with that kind of statement.
17:54I don't even know how anyone could make a statement like that.
17:57So self-assured.
17:59Three years after Interior Health said it was reassuring there was no evidence of a widespread breach,
18:05an imposter took over the CRA account of Fernie nurse Leslie Warner.
18:09Her fraudster went to an H&R Block office in Alberta to cash in a fake tax return.
18:15And then...
18:16They had made three children's birth certificates under my name, me being the mother,
18:22and they were claiming Alberta Social Services.
18:27Tax benefits or child benefits?
18:29Tax benefits.
18:30Yeah, child benefits with my identity.
18:32And even then, her problems weren't over yet. Far from it.
18:37I got a call that the RCMP had some papers to serve me.
18:41I met the RCMP at my house here, and I said,
18:46oh, have I been called for jury duty?
18:48And he said, no, actually, these are criminal charges.
18:53She was taken to the local RCMP detachment where the Mounties snapped her mugshot,
18:58took her fingerprints, and explained she was being charged for crimes in Alberta.
19:03I wouldn't wish on anyone. It's a complete nightmare.
19:07And who's your advocate? Who's standing up and fighting for you?
19:10No one. There's nobody.
19:13And our investigation has revealed Warner was just one of many
19:17interior health victims who had their CRA accounts hacked through
19:21H&R Block locations in Alberta.
19:27Criminal networks in cities and towns across Alberta were also taking
19:31out fraudulent credit cards and car loans from Edmonton to White Court,
19:35Red Deer to Lethbridge.
19:38But how did they get a hold of so many names from British Columbia?
19:43And that's when our source we're calling anonymous dropped a bombshell.
19:48He sent us a spreadsheet with the stolen personal information of 28,000 people living in B.C.'s interior.
19:55Names, social insurance numbers, birthdates, phone numbers.
20:0028,000 people!
20:02That's enough to fill this Kelowna hockey rink four times over.
20:06And anonymous pointed the finger straight at Interior Health.
20:13The list I provided was compiled from Interior Health in British Columbia.
20:18And it was obtained through a data leak years ago.
20:21This information has been sold and distributed to thousands of people over the past five to six years.
20:29As we scoured the list, we found some familiar names.
20:33Leslie Warner, Ashley Stone, and Tracey Maxfield.
20:38In fact, every person we contacted on that list was a current or former employee of B.C.'s Interior Health Authority.
20:48So we returned to Creston and Jimmy's Pub.
20:55Heidi Gurman told us last year she wanted to know how her identity was stolen.
21:00Now we had an answer.
21:02So after our story aired, somebody got in touch with us who said,
21:08I know how Heidi Gurman's identity was stolen.
21:12Like my name?
21:13Yes.
21:14What?
21:15He singled you out.
21:17Specifically.
21:18Yeah.
21:19Huh.
21:20That's...
21:21Okay, that's creepy.
21:22And sent us a screenshot.
21:25That...
21:26Of a list.
21:27Yeah.
21:28That he had bought on the dark web.
21:30We showed her the list we were leaked by anonymous.
21:33And it hit close to home for Gurman,
21:36who'd worked as a drug and alcohol counsellor for Interior Health back in 2008.
21:41Yeah, there you are on the...
21:42Yeah, you're not the only Gurman.
21:44No.
21:45Natalie is my sister.
21:46Esther is my sister.
21:47Judy and Kelvin are my parents.
21:49So why would all of their names...
21:52We all worked for Interior Health.
21:54You all worked for Interior Health.
21:55We all worked for Interior Health.
21:56Yeah.
21:57And you're all on this list.
21:58Yeah.
21:59Bingo.
22:00For five tumultuous years, Leslie Warner also had no idea how her identity was stolen until we told her.
22:10So that was crazy news to hear.
22:13So that is frustrating.
22:15And it's frustrating that as each month passes, there's probably more victims that it's actively happening to.
22:23And yeah, I just don't know when it'll stop.
22:28When we come back, we go on the hunt for the impostors.
22:32My name's Mark Kelly.
22:33I'm at CBC Television.
22:35Fit the state.
22:36Good morning.
22:49I'm Chris Walker in Kelowna.
22:50This is Daybreak on CBC Radio 1.
22:53If you were in BC's Interior this spring, it was hard to miss an emerging scandal that some say had been buried for a decade.
23:01New developments this morning in that Interior Health data breach that we told you about back in April.
23:06The personal information of thousands of Interior Health employees stolen and then sold via the dark web to identity thieves.
23:13The fifth of states, Mark Kelly is on the line from Creston this morning where he's been speaking with some victims of stolen identity.
23:20Good morning, Mark.
23:21Chris, good morning.
23:23We're talking about social insurance number, you know, phone numbers, address, you know, the information that can be used for identity theft.
23:32So that's one concern that's being raised by some of the employees there.
23:36And their concerns go back, Chris, more than a decade.
23:41And Mark, you'll be in Kelowna later today hoping to talk with more Interior Health employees.
23:46Safe travels.
23:47Thanks so much, Chris.
23:48Now, in the meantime, if you've been affected by that data breach at Interior Health, Mark and the rest of the team at the Fifth Estate would like to hear from you.
23:56My name is Andrea Harris.
24:06My name is David Lukras.
24:07My name is Shandra Hauer.
24:09My name is Sheldon Ambler.
24:10My name is Laura Buston.
24:11My name is Kathleen Reimer.
24:13My name is Randy Johnson.
24:15You're all going through this.
24:18What do you want them to know?
24:20And show up they did.
24:21An informal town hall.
24:23Hospital employee after hospital employee.
24:26I realized my identity was stolen in early 2023.
24:31I was a victim of fraud in 2022.
24:34It was two years ago, the first time my identity was stolen and once again last week.
24:39I had my identity stolen in 2021.
24:42It was October of 2022 that I realized my identity had been stolen.
24:47Randy Johnson said his identity was used at least 10 times to take out credit cards and buy jet skis.
24:56At one point I was under underwater about $170,000.
25:00We had a bailiff at our house telling my wife and I at the front door early on a Sunday morning that they were going to take our house, that I had the wave runners.
25:12He knew I had the wave runners and my debt was never going to go away and they were going to take all our assets.
25:19I had a full list of credit cards all taken out over $20,000 all in my name.
25:25And I was a newly single parent.
25:32So it was really tough because you're navigating being a single mom with two kids and then this.
25:40So it was really tough.
25:42Someone took its soul on you?
25:43Mm-hmm.
25:44When I filed the police report, the police said, well, do you work for Interior Health?
25:47I said, yeah.
25:48It was awful.
25:49Like, you know, I worked my buns off to get to where I am.
25:54I have excellent credit.
25:56And someone just came and stole that all the way from me.
25:59You know, 20 years of hard work, basically.
26:02The biggest one is the CRA fraud where they had completely accessed my CRA account through an ancient or block in Calgary.
26:10How much was it?
26:11Do you remember?
26:12It's in the 30s.
26:13$30,000.
26:14They say I owe them and owe taxes.
26:16Did Interior Health tell you that your identity had been stolen?
26:20They never told me no.
26:22It's scary.
26:23Like, it's a very scary feeling to know that there could be debt out there in my name that I'm going to have to fight to prove that it's not me.
26:31And do you feel anyone's helping you in your fight?
26:34Nobody's helping me.
26:35No.
26:36You trust your employer.
26:38Like, we work in a health authority, so patient confidentiality is absolute most important.
26:44You expect your employer to do the same with your information.
26:47That statement is within two minutes.
26:50And the anger spread from the BC Interior to the BC Capital.
26:55The Fifth Estate found that the stolen identities taken from Interior Health employees have been used for fraudulent CRA refunds and loans.
27:07The BC Conservatives demanded answers about a health authority plagued with problems.
27:13What kind of gong show is this government running in Interior Health?
27:17You can't get a doctor or count on an ER room, but if you're a nurse, you can now count on your information being stolen.
27:26This government takes the privacy of information incredibly seriously, as do the health authorities.
27:34So who are these imposters?
27:36We got back in touch with Anonymous, the self-proclaimed ex-criminal who leaked us the list.
27:42According to Anonymous, the list was likely stolen in 2009 and later posted for sale on the dark web.
27:49I first obtained it in 2017.
27:52This information has been sold and distributed to thousands of people.
27:57$15 a name, or $1,000 for the whole list.
28:01Anonymous said there are tutorials on the dark web for how to use the stolen names, but by invitation only.
28:09It's a closed loop of criminals, and the only way to get in is to be vouched for by another member.
28:16We wanted to find the members of this criminal operation.
28:21We searched the fraud files of three victims.
28:24Heidi Gurman, Leslie Warner, and a former IH employee from Salmon Arm who wanted to keep her identity confidential.
28:32In her file, we discovered an address in rural Alberta used to apply for credit cards in her name.
28:42So we headed to the small community of Sylvan Lake.
28:47Our online digging led us to this Facebook post belonging to someone named Nicole Rae Armstrong.
28:54She was charged with possessing identity documents belonging to three Interior Health employees.
29:01The charges were withdrawn for procedural reasons.
29:04Armstrong now faces 21 new criminal charges, 18 of them fraud related.
29:10We wanted to talk to her.
29:12There's nobody here.
29:23Or if there's somebody that would be an aide.
29:27But it seems she didn't want to talk to us.
29:30So we followed up with a phone call.
29:32Hello?
29:33Hi there.
29:34Can I speak to Nicole, please?
29:36Uh, yeah.
29:38Why do people always hang up on me?
29:54We then went looking for Leslie Warner's imposter, the Fernie nurse who was charged with crimes committed in her name.
30:01This little bungalow in Edmonton played a key role in Leslie Warner's identity theft.
30:07The Canada Revenue Agency had this listed as her address.
30:10She was also named as the director of a bogus company that was supposedly headquartered here.
30:16We don't know her imposter's real name, but this is the fake ID police told Warner they use to get fraudulent child tax benefits.
30:24But when we showed up, the house was empty.
30:38Sounds empty.
30:39Leslie Warner's imposter long gone.
30:41We then went to track down Heidi Gurman's imposter, the bartender from Creston, BC.
30:47We obtained a credit card statement used by the imposters to scam this restaurant.
30:52We obtained CCTV footage and there she was.
30:56We've identified the woman as Christina Chirpak.
30:59She has a lengthy criminal record including charges of identity theft.
31:03Then we got a break.
31:06Turns out she had a court date in Edmonton.
31:09So we went to the courthouse to find her.
31:12Hey Christina.
31:14My name's Mark Kelly.
31:15I'm a CBC television.
31:17I'm a fifth estate.
31:18Chirpak's appearance had changed since we revealed her identity in our last documentary.
31:22I just want to ask you questions about the identity theft.
31:26I just want to find out how you got those names that you could use with this stolen identity.
31:33Christina, what will you say to the victims who've had their lives turned upside down?
31:37Christina, you can't just walk away from this.
31:41Chirpak never uttered a word in her own defence.
31:48Hi.
31:49Nice to see you again.
31:50Yeah, you too.
31:51Back in Creston, we showed Heidi Gurman the footage of our encounter with Christina Chirpak.
31:58Shortly after this, she gets in a cab and drives away.
32:02Yeah.
32:03And essentially, she's free, walking free.
32:07Yeah.
32:08You're still trying to rebuild your name.
32:11Yeah.
32:12What would you want someone like Christina to know about the consequences of her actions?
32:20I think the biggest thing is, yeah, there's real people behind these names and these numbers and these identities, right?
32:30Do you think that Interior Health has taken this seriously?
32:33Well, I've never heard from them.
32:34Well, I've never heard from them.
32:35So I don't even think they know.
32:36So, no, I don't.
32:40B.C.'s Interior Health Authority continues to take no responsibility for the security breach, refuses to apologize to its frontline workers and denied our request for an on-camera interview saying the matter is being investigated by the RCMP.
32:57When we come back, we take the fraud victims' concerns straight to B.C.'s Health Minister.
33:03Mark Kelly from the CBC program, the Fifth Estate.
33:06Yeah.
33:08It was the spring of 2024, and for 10 long years, B.C.'s Interior Health Authority had been denying it was responsible for a massive data breach.
33:27And then another RCMP revelation would make that claim even more difficult.
33:32The Mounties found a list with a staggering 20,000 stolen identities, including the names of 7,000 current IH employees.
33:41IH's VP of Digital Health spoke to Global News.
33:45We're actually unaware of, unsure of how this information came into possession of the individual when the RCMP discovered the file.
33:54But it is concerning. It's sensitive information.
33:57For the victims, this just confirmed what they already knew.
34:01But in that Global News interview, Interior Health treated the news like a lightning bolt out of the blue.
34:07We want to reach out to employees, both active and inactive, and make sure they're aware of this discovery and have the opportunity to protect their identity through credit monitoring.
34:19Then the denial machine kicked into gear once again.
34:23Unlike in 2017, the IH press release didn't call this a breach.
34:28Instead, it was referred to as an information incident.
34:32In a message to employees, IH said external security experts concluded this information is not circulating on the dark web,
34:40a forum where criminals buy and sell stolen information.
34:43Again, we asked IH for the report.
34:46Again, IH refused our request.
34:52The former criminal, Anonymous, dismissed any suggestion the list was not for sale through the dark web.
34:59That is untrue, as me personally, as well as others, have bought it on telegram shops and other dark web forums.
35:08I'm sure they released that statement as a protection from liability and act like it's not that big of a leak.
35:18Why do you think there's been this failure to take responsibility?
35:21Do you believe that they honestly believe the leak did not come from them?
35:25I think it would be hard to deny it at this point, but I think it just opens them up too.
35:29It opens a Pandora's box of liability and accountability that it's easier to sweep under the rug and hopefully it will go away.
35:41But it's not going away. Just ask these people.
35:44I tried to sign a loan for my son going to university, like a $6,000 line of credit, and they wouldn't approve it.
35:53And I didn't know why. And now I think, now I know why. There must be something going on.
35:57So I'm really scared that there's stuff out there in my name and I still don't know about it.
36:02Because I think they should pay for what they've done. It was brutal. I almost got turned down for buying a house because my credit was so bad.
36:15So Interior Health offered its employees two years of credit monitoring, calling it a precautionary measure, as if their identity theft had never even happened.
36:24I said to them, that is useless to me. I'm already a victim. It had been over almost a year and there's no one to help.
36:33Shame on IHA. That's all I have to say. I worked for them for a long time. And if that's, I mean once they have your sin number, they're criminals. You're done.
36:47Which brings us back to the former RCMP constable who set off alarm bells with his investigation a decade ago, Stuart Ward.
36:58I think that any of these companies that are losing personal data should be on the hook for ensuring that these people are safe, unfortunately, for the rest of their lives.
37:08Throwing out these two-year credit check reports isn't helping anyone because two years from now you still have the same personal information.
37:16So somebody has to help them.
37:18And yet so many of them tell us that they were the ones who were made to feel like they did something wrong. And they didn't do anything wrong.
37:25They didn't do anything wrong. There was nothing that a single one of those victims could have done to prevent any of this happening. This is not their fault.
37:32You know, the first thing I should probably say is that I really feel for the victims of this breach and this identity theft and what's happened to those folks.
37:43So we headed to Victoria to meet BC's Information and Privacy Commissioner Michael Harvey.
37:49Appointed just last year, he echoed what many victims believe, but Interior Health continues to deny.
37:57Is the source of that leak, was it Interior Health?
38:01My understanding is that this information came from Interior Health. That's my understanding.
38:06We have not conducted an investigation that concludes that, but that is my understanding.
38:12Still, Commissioner Harvey says he won't investigate Interior Health's handling of the breach.
38:18Their obligation is to take reasonable safeguards. And so I need to have evidence.
38:26We have a list of 28,000 names with their social insurance numbers, their personal information. What more evidence do you need at that point?
38:32I would need to have evidence to show that that information was gotten onto the dark web through them failing to meet their legal obligations.
38:44But you understand how unsatisfying that is going to be for the people whose names are on this list?
38:50It is not within my authority to do anything that could assist these people.
38:55Who can then?
38:56Well, I think that law enforcement can and the courts can.
39:00And the privacy commissioner, where are they? They should be all over this.
39:05Former Ontario Privacy Commissioner Ann Kavoukian says it's time the B.C. government took responsibility, since Interior Health hasn't.
39:13This is why you have to go to the Minister of Health and the Premier, because you can't engage these individuals.
39:21They're not speaking to you responsibly. They're not telling you the truth.
39:25They're covering things up, obviously. And you need someone to say to them, open up.
39:32You have to be truthful about this. We have to discontinue this activity of covering up.
39:37I am really honoured to serve as B.C.'s Minister of Health.
39:42We sent multiple requests to B.C.'s Health Minister Josie Osborne for an interview.
39:47Her office eventually declined, also citing an RCMP investigation.
39:52So we showed up to an industry-sponsored event to bring the victim's concerns directly to her.
39:58We waited as she posed for selfies. We were the only journalists in attendance.
40:03I understand your time constraints. I respect that.
40:08Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
40:10We told her Chief of Staff why we were here.
40:13Watch as she warns the Minister we had questions about Interior Health.
40:19Very quickly, Minister Osborne.
40:22Mark Kelly from the CBC program for the state.
40:25We've just come here from Toronto for a couple of questions for you.
40:27Yeah.
40:28We've spent months now investigating the data breach at Interior Health.
40:32Will you and your government now acknowledge that Interior Health is responsible for that data breach?
40:38Thank you very much. I'd love to follow up with a conversation.
40:41We are going to go catch our plane right now.
40:44The data breach occurred in 2009.
40:47Thank you, though.
40:51The nurses have been waiting for some answers, some truth and transparency on this.
40:55We do have to run.
40:57Will you apologize for the inconvenience that this has caused?
41:00Not. Thank you for any questions.
41:02We'll follow up, for sure.
41:04We'll be happy to follow up.
41:05We have been asking you for weeks.
41:07We will.
41:08For weeks.
41:09And now we're here.
41:11Yeah.
41:12We'll follow up.
41:13Getting away from your own employees.
41:22Unbelievable.
41:28We never did hear back.
41:36Back in Kelowna, we showed our exchange with the Health Minister to Ashley Stone.
41:40It's kind of been the theme throughout this whole experience anyway.
41:47So I guess it's unfortunate, but I'm not surprised.
41:51There's no resolution.
41:52There's no, there's no, like, here's the way and it's going to get fixed for you.
41:59It's just like this is an unfortunate road to go down and nobody cares.
42:03After 16 years as a registered nurse and a decade fighting interior health to get some accountability, Stone has decided to leave nursing.
42:13But she won't give up the fight.
42:15Oh, I honestly just want to put all of this behind me and forget it ever happened.
42:20And I just also just want to continue to be an advocate for my colleagues who are still working full time and need that work full time and feel too afraid to speak up because I'm not afraid to speak up anymore.
42:35It's never over.
42:38It's never over.
42:39It's never over.
42:41They have your personal information.
42:44It's never going to end.
42:46They can use it at any time.
42:47It's public information now.
42:50And I could be 80 years old and still be dealing with this.
42:53I'm Joanna Rumaliotis.
43:08Next week on The Fifth Estate.
43:10As the world watches what comes next in Gaza.
43:12There's quieter but intensifying violence in the West Bank.
43:20Back to the car.
43:22Back to the car.
43:24We're in the West Bank village of Susia where Palestinians here say they live under constant threat of attack by Israeli settlers.
43:31How they sleep here.
43:32You see the blood.
43:34Oh my goodness.
43:35Everybody's here, eh?
43:37Yeah.
43:38Oh my gosh.
43:39Hi.
43:40The International Court of Justice calls the settlements illegal.
43:43Canada says they undermine a future Palestinian state.
43:47Ottawa condemns the escalating violence.
43:50But our investigation reveals Canadian charities are sending millions of tax deductible dollars to Israeli groups intent on forcing Palestinians off this land.
43:59We are financing war criminality through our charitable system.
44:06These aren't settlers.
44:07These are Jews who have returned to the cradle of Jewish civilization.
44:12What's the logic behind shutting down homes and shops along the street?
44:15To remove Palestinians from their homes.
44:17That's it.
44:18That's the only excuse.
44:20If we want peace, we have to give up that which we think is ours in order to make peace possible.
44:26That's next week on The Fifth Estate.
45:01Transcription by CastingWords
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