- 3 hours ago
In this edition of To The Point, the focus is on two significant stories -- the controversy surrounding Afghan Taliban Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi's press conference in New Delhi, where women journalists were barred, and the political storm following the suicide of Haryana IPS officer Y. Puran Kumar.
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00:00Well, welcome viewers. You're watching India Today to the Point. I'm Treeti Chaudhary.
00:05We've just come back off the big numbers or an opinion poll of sorts.
00:09You take it with a pinch or a fistful of salt, giving you the numbers there.
00:13Moving on to some other news.
00:15Big news break coming in right now at the back of the Afghan foreign minister in India.
00:20We're going to get you details, of course.
00:23Also, there is fair amounts of Dalit politics peaking at a very unfortunate incident
00:28that has happened in the state of Haryana.
00:31Before we get down to that, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:39India, Afghanistan, Bonhomi on display.
00:42India welcomes Afghanistan's stand on Pehelgham terror, promises new high commission in Kabul.
00:47Afghan finance minister says won't tolerate act of terror against India.
00:51I am pleased to announce today the upgrading of India's technical mission in Kabul to the status of Embassy of India.
01:06Pakistan admits Tehreek-e-Taliban killing Pak Ami personnel.
01:10Reports say Pakistan attacked TTP chief in Kabul.
01:14Taliban condemns attacks as do not challenge patience of Afghans.
01:18Mamta versus BJP over poll role revision in Bengal.
01:26BJP slams Mamta for a threatening poll body, releases video of Mamta's threat to election commission.
01:33Mamta warns, don't play with fire.
01:41Sources say all NDA parties have reached an agreement on seat sharing.
01:45Announcement will be made soon.
01:47NDA parties in Bihar to hold a joint press conference to announce seat sharing formula.
01:57Chandigarh Police forms a six-member SIT to probe Haryana ADGP suicide case.
02:03IPS officer Vaipurankumar alleged caste discrimination in his suicide note.
02:09Well, there has been no Nobel Peace Prize for Donald Trump.
02:17Nobel Peace Prize Committee snubs Trump.
02:19Maria Corina Machado wins 2025 Nobel Peace Prize.
02:39All right, viewers, disturbing news coming in, it seems, from the Afghan embassy.
02:43Their news break just coming in.
02:46It seems that there were no women journalists from India, mind you.
02:49We have the Taliban delegation with the Taliban foreign minister on Indian soil.
02:56We are giving them the full official protocol.
02:59But word has come in that no woman journalist was present in the press conference of the Afghan foreign minister, Mutaki, today in Delhi.
03:09It's not that they weren't present of their own volition.
03:12They were barred to enter, to go inside and pose any questions to the foreign minister of Afghanistan and the Taliban.
03:22I'm joined right now by Geeta, who's going to give us more information that is coming in.
03:26Geeta, if at all, it is correct.
03:30And, you know, give us more details because I'm hoping that we are not, we didn't cow down to what the Taliban wanted.
03:39Were actually no women journalists allowed in that press conference?
03:43Did this press conference happen in the Afghan embassy, which is practically Afghanistan soil?
03:49Will you give us details?
03:50Well, that's right, Preeti.
03:52The press conference of the Afghan Taliban foreign minister did take place in the compound or in the premises of the Afghanistan embassy here in New Delhi.
04:04And therefore, like you rightly said, it's Afghan soil.
04:06There was a lot of back and forth.
04:09The administration over here has been trying to handle a lot of things from the flag issue of whether they should be sitting in front of the Taliban flag at all or not.
04:19And so there were no flags during the meetings to the fact that since yesterday we've been trying, women journalists, not just me, and I've been on the beat for years, not just me, many women journalists have been trying to get into the press conference that we knew was going to be held by Minister Mutaki as well.
04:40And we got no word, no permission, no invitation, but there were other journalists who were all invited through mail, through emails, and they all turned out to be the men in the fraternity, not women journalists.
04:57Was this invite given by the Indian counterpart, our counterpart?
05:02Preeti, this was a sole press conference, solely handled by the Afghan embassy.
05:10There is a representative over here who sits in Bombay, and he was managing the entire press conference.
05:19But yes, it surely was cleared by Minister Mutaki himself, whether he would want to have women journalists there.
05:28We do not know whether it is to do only with presence, because it's not like they don't interact with women at all.
05:35It more so maybe had to do with the fact that a lot of tough questions on the situation of women in Afghanistan would have been posed to the minister.
05:43Any which way, not allowing women journalists in a country like India to be there in that room, certainly does not bode well for the Afghan delegation, which is going to be here for a while now.
05:56He is also going to Deoband, to the Darululum seminary, where the Afghan Taliban or those from the Sunni faction really look up to.
06:09So he is going to be there, but certainly no access to women journalists and a huge row or controversy over the Afghan flag, whether the old flag should still continue to fly at the embassy or whether they should have the new Taliban flag.
06:26The ones who are there from the previous administration did not allow the new flag to be put behind Minister Mutaki.
06:33And therefore, if you see the visuals of his press conference at the embassy as well, no flag was put up there.
06:40A lot of controversy and amid all these controversy and complications, we are looking at the Indian administration, Modi administration, is looking at engaging this administration only because of the sensitivities and the geopolitics.
06:54All of that apart.
06:54You know, for once, I would have really hoped that the external affairs minister was a woman in India and, you know, but having said that, because this is also, you know, one is amazed at what has really gone down.
07:06The sheer fact, Geeta, that we have accorded full official protocol to the Taliban delegation that is here.
07:12Has India, has there been a note of dissent, has India lodged a complaint of our women journalists not being allowed where this press conference was taking place?
07:24Of course, it's foreign soil, it's the Afghan embassy.
07:26It's their prerogative, who to invite and who to discriminate against.
07:30Well, it might be their prerogative, but does not look well at all or look good at all, Preeti, that it happened on Indian soil.
07:36The fact that this press conference was held in New Delhi, albeit at the Afghan embassy, considered Afghan soil, it was held in New Delhi nonetheless.
07:46So, whether if they can object or not, there should be a protest or a voice of dissent.
07:52We are yet to hear of what the reaction of the Ministry of External Affairs or the Indian administration is going to be.
07:58Will you stay with me?
07:59Geeta, will you stay with me?
08:01Because, you know, I'll tell you, you know, viewers, how interesting this is.
08:03Geeta Mohan, our foreign affairs editor, is a woman.
08:07I am joined right now by my colleague, Prane, who works alongside Geeta, our editor, where foreign affairs is concerned.
08:15He was actually invited to this press conference and he is joining us right now from that venue.
08:19We are going to give out the frame that you see on your television screen.
08:22It is the foreign minister of Afghanistan, Mutaki there, addressing an all-male journalist group.
08:33Prane, if you are with me, is Prane with us?
08:36Okay, we are going to cut across to Prane in just about a minute.
08:39But Geeta, are we expecting, because there are so many of you who actually cover foreign affairs,
08:44which were not given an entry into this press conference.
08:48Is there now at least an attempt by the Indian government to lodge a formal note of dissent in a complaint?
08:57Well, as of now, Priti, we do not know whether there is going to be one or whether there already has been one.
09:02But we do understand that there was a lot of conversation in how this entire press conference will be held, where it should be held.
09:12Initially, there was also conversation that the press conference could be held at the dignitaries hotel where he is staying.
09:19But that would have meant Indian soil.
09:21Now, that would have raised matters and made it much, much worse.
09:27And over here, there are many who are from the earlier administration at the embassy.
09:32There are only a few who are those representing the Taliban administration.
09:37And therefore, they were not very happy and did not want to allow Mutaki press conference at the embassy.
09:43Nonetheless, after a lot of conversation to and fro, it was decided that the press conference will take place at the embassy.
09:52And it was most probably, Priti, because keeping in mind that Minister Mutaki would not have entertained women journalists.
10:02Right.
10:02Or they would not...
10:03You know, Geeta, we are joined by Prane.
10:04And once again, for those of you who are just tuning in and you're reading our news break, it is actually true.
10:10You know, as a woman journalist, I am appalled today.
10:13As an Indian, I'm appalled today that you have the foreign minister of the Taliban coming in, addressing a press conference.
10:20Of course, it's happened at the Afghan embassy.
10:22So, therefore, consider technically foreign soil.
10:25But not allow a single woman Indian journalist while you're addressing a press conference to actually come in.
10:31My colleague Prane, you know, very competent, but surely on the basis of his gender today,
10:36was given that pass to enter and attend that press conference.
10:41But Prane, will you take us through on what really happened?
10:44Because, you know, many of us are yet to come and, you know, come to terms with the fact that this can actually happen in New Delhi.
10:53Indeed, you know, I think, Priti, this was unusual.
10:57I'm unable to put it in words because probably in my career of over 20 years of journalism,
11:03this is for the first time I have seen the gender-based segregation.
11:06But we only realized this thing after entering the press conference room
11:10because we ended up finding that most of the men or male journalists were there in the press conference room.
11:16It was on invitation. It is right that it was on invitation.
11:21They called up.
11:21But often such press conferences, such high-level interaction happen on the basis of, you know,
11:27selected invitation.
11:28Very few from every organization get invite for interaction.
11:32But was there exactly a gender bias or segregation or selection done by the Afghans?
11:39We do not know because the embassy currently, you know, under the administration of the erstwhile government,
11:45but the Taliban leader, Amir Khan Mottaki, was addressing a press conference.
11:50It was also unusual.
11:51So many unusuals were there in that press conference.
11:54Women journalists try and enter the area where the press conference was taking place.
12:00Did they try and enter the Afghan embassy,
12:02considering some of them have been covering foreign affairs for decades?
12:07Did they attempt to gain access?
12:10Some of the women journalists were there at the gate,
12:12but they were giving the selective access, like, you know, they were calling the names,
12:15they were asking people to check their name in the list,
12:17and then they were allowing, which is a usual process.
12:20Was this an all-male list then?
12:21Because some of these women, whoever was woman and female standing outside that gate,
12:27wasn't allowed entry.
12:29Were there any women inside at all, Pranay?
12:31No, definitely there was no women journalists inside the room.
12:34There was no women at all in the press conference, for that matter,
12:37because Mr. Muthaki, his team, including everyone,
12:42were like, you know, the male members of the press corps were there.
12:46So, we do not know.
12:47But yes, indeed there were some female journalists.
12:48Rane, was any question posed to Mr. Muthaki on the condition,
12:52the discrimination, the gender apathite that is taking place in Afghanistan
12:56by any of the male journalists present?
12:58Yes, not only that, I personally, I have also asked that, you know,
13:02if the government of India has decided to enhance or to enlarge the visas
13:07for the Afghan nationals, how many women you are going to send for the education,
13:10for the higher education to India from Afghanistan,
13:14to which he responded that this is for the institutions to decide,
13:17this is for the institutions to work out the modalities,
13:20and they will eventually decide that who will be sent
13:23and how, you know, the Indian universities or education institutions will receive them.
13:27So, definitely he was not forthcoming to respond to this question.
13:31Rane, was any question asked of the Afghan administration now,
13:35that why were any women journalists denied access to this press conference,
13:40Indian women journalists?
13:42Unfortunately, the questions were limited to the news topics there,
13:47and in fact, he left the press conference, like, you know, very abruptly.
13:51He said that, you know, I have some other engagements and I have to go somewhere.
13:55These are the prior commitments and I have to go for an important event
13:59and that's why he left.
14:01So, many of the male journalists also could not compete or ask their questions.
14:05However, there was a particular question about the plight of women in Afghanistan,
14:10their rights, their human rights conditions,
14:12and other aspects of the women's rights in Afghanistan.
14:15What did he have to say about that?
14:17He said, you know, obviously, you know their position.
14:20So, he said that we are there, we are the government there,
14:24we are ensuring every country, every government has its own system,
14:29and we are ensuring that everyone in Afghanistan gets their right,
14:34and everyone, you know, we are ensuring how the system in Afghanistan can work together.
14:39And it's an approach by the Taliban administration that we are ensuring law and order,
14:45we are ensuring that everyone gets, you know, the health care and other, you know, facilities.
14:50So, we are there and, you know, we do not expect, you know, other governments to preach us,
14:55to tell us.
14:56This was in reference to the Western governments he was referring to.
15:00He said that, you know, many people say a lot many things about Afghanistan,
15:03but that is a propaganda, we know that how people in Afghanistan,
15:08especially, be it women or be it, you know, the other section of the society.
15:12And how well, Pranay, to try and dispel that propaganda,
15:15to bar any woman journalist to actually come in and pose any questions, viewers.
15:19One might get away by saying that these are domestic issues of a country,
15:23but what is happening in Afghanistan is gender apathite.
15:27But the sheer fact that what has happened in New Delhi,
15:30where Indian women journalists were barred from attending that very press conference,
15:36which the Taliban foreign minister actually addressed,
15:39will it be picked up officially,
15:42while we've accorded full official protocol to the Taliban delegation?
15:46Remains to be seen, Gita.
15:47Are we expecting a note of dissent?
15:50Are we expecting anything at all?
15:52Or will this also die down,
15:54because there are other diplomatic, strategic, pragmatic issues to look at?
15:59Well, there certainly might be issues to look at,
16:01but this is a cause for worry and concern.
16:04And the Ministry of External Affairs, if you ask me, should take up the matter.
16:08I come from the fraternity.
16:10I have been in the business close to 24 years, Preeti.
16:14And in all those selective interactions that have taken place,
16:19especially if you talk about the Afghan embassy and Afghans,
16:21I have never been barred, nor have I, nor all the other senior journalists from the fraternity,
16:31women journalists, have ever, ever been barred.
16:33So this did come as a surprise where none of us got the invite.
16:39You know, Gita and Pranay, appreciate you joining us.
16:43You know, thank you there.
16:44We're going to keep a keen eye, because I'm going to, we are, as a collective of India today,
16:49our journalists, are going to keep eye on the developments that are actually coming in.
16:52Is India going to lodge a note of dissent?
16:55Because viewers, what is happening in Afghanistan is gender apathide.
16:59We might have diplomatic reasons to look at it.
17:01We might have pragmatic reasons to look at it,
17:04especially where the geopolitical situation is concerned.
17:07But to give you just an example,
17:09it's not that there are women in Afghanistan are just denied the right to education.
17:14They are denied a right to be seen.
17:16They're not allowed to step outside.
17:17They're not allowed to have windows in their house,
17:19because what if somebody catches a glimpse?
17:21Moreover, I'll give you a figure, over one lakh women died this time around
17:25when the last earthquake took place, because women were not allowed to be touched.
17:29They were buried, some of them could be rescued, and they perished.
17:32This is the level of gender apathide right now in Afghanistan.
17:37With that, I want to quickly shift focus to the story that we're tracking very, very closely
17:40right here in India today, and that comes in from the state of Haryana,
17:44where the tragic suicide of Haryana IPS officer, Waipurankumar,
17:48has now sparked a massive political storm, all because of his Dalit identity.
17:53In his suicide note, he himself alleges deep entrenched bias within the system against Dalits.
18:00Of course, it's now blown up.
18:02A new round-the-clock security post has been created outside dead IPS officer Vaipurankumar's house.
18:18His wife, an IAS officer herself, Amnir P. Kumar,
18:23in a letter to the Chief Minister of Haryana, had earlier asked for this security cover.
18:30ADGP Vaipurankumar was found dead with a gunshot wound at his Chandigarh residence on Tuesday, 7th October.
18:37The Dalit Haryana Carta IPS officer left a nine-page suicide note detailing years of alleged systematic caste-based discrimination in the police force.
18:49He named 15 serving and former officials, including Haryana's Chief Secretary and the DGP.
18:55His suicide has now become a new political flashpoint.
19:00Lok Sabha leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi in a social media post labelled his suicide as a symbol of deepening social poison.
19:09Congress MP Priyanka Gandhi accused the ruling BJP government of fostering an environment of injustice and violence against Dalits.
19:17The government and the whole system have not been taken care of.
19:37The government and the government were standing on the streets.
19:40The government was standing on the streets.
19:42State bureaucrats and Dalit organizations are demanding actions from the government.
19:56An immediate arrest of people named in the suicide note of ADGP Vaipurankumar.
20:12A day before ADGP Vaipurankumar took his life, the second Dalit Chief Justice of India was
20:30assaulted in the Supreme Court in the middle of an ongoing proceeding.
20:34A lawyer, allegedly to defend the Sanatana dharm, hurled SHU at the CGI Gawai.
20:40The opposition then called the attack on CGI an attack on the Constitution of India.
20:46Few days before 6th October attack on the CGI, a Dalit youth in Raibareli, Uttar Pradesh
20:52was killed in mob lynching.
20:5438-year-old Hari Om, suspected of being a drone chore, lost his life for the widespread rumors
21:00across the state.
21:02Videos of him being beaten went viral soon.
21:05The 3rd October Raibareli incident prompted Congress leaders of opposition in both houses
21:10of the parliament to issue a joint statement condemning the brutal and cruel murder of a
21:16Dalit in a BJP rule, Uttar Pradesh.
21:20Three incidents within a week.
21:22Under three BJP rule governments have caused a new stir in Dalit politics in the country.
21:28Bureau Report, India Today.
21:33All right, let's quickly cut across to our guests this evening.
21:36Joining me, Karan Verma, author, political analyst in the studio.
21:39Tahseen Poonawala, political analyst.
21:41Dr. Suraj Yengre Howard and Oxford scholar, author of Caste Matters.
21:46Raghav Awasthi, political analyst.
21:48Rashid Kidwai, author and political commentator.
21:50We begin with Rashid Kidwai.
21:53Rashid Kidwai, the Congress on a clear attempt right now to tie in these multiple independent
21:58incidents into one big narrative, especially there is an election in order in Bihar where
22:04the Congress has a keen eye on the Dalit vote.
22:06It started with the shoe-throwing on the Chief Justice of India, who's Dalit, then the
22:12lynching of a young boy in Rai Bareilly, and now the suicide of an IPS officer in Haryana.
22:20I think, Priti, this is most unfortunate.
22:24Each incident is a blot on our civil society, on our constitutional mechanism, and there
22:31is very little accountability.
22:33To accuse the opposition of any kind of shaking political mileage is also wrong and uncalled
22:41for because these events are so glaring that it should have actually shaken the collective
22:46conscience of our political class and political parties cutting across.
22:50Both party lines and ideologies should have come forward and expressed solidarity.
22:54So, it's like me versus they.
22:57That kind of narrative is uncalled for, and therefore, I think it's very grave.
23:02And there are times, and Priti, we must also make a distinction between a mandate having
23:09any kind of impact or not having an impact.
23:12If, suppose, you know, Bihar goes in a certain way, politically speaking, then it would not
23:18mean that, you know, what has happened, is there any kind of approval or, you know, tacit
23:23approval.
23:24So, we should be very careful about these things.
23:26We should not look at it from the political prism.
23:28This is something that, you know, it makes us actually very conscious that in year 2025,
23:34these things are happening, and why there is a need for a greater, you know, sensitivity
23:39towards Dalits.
23:41And the political class must hold people who are responsible.
23:45Just one point, that if the Chief Justice of India is being gracious, that does not mean
23:50that the culprit can go scot-free.
23:52That person should be, there should be, you know, exemplary action against him.
23:57This is the thing that, it is not between, you know, it is not a personal matter between
24:00the CGI and him.
24:02It's an insult to the nation.
24:04Fair point.
24:05So, you are saying independent action should have been taken against the judge, even though
24:08this, the entire incident took place within a courtroom, and the Chief Justice of India
24:13had forgiven him.
24:15He could have been charged with content, but he was let go of.
24:18Karan Varma, I want to bring you in.
24:19This is the job of the opposition.
24:21Three incidents have taken place where, you know, the Chief Justice of this country was
24:26attacked inside the premises of a courtroom, and solely on what he had said on the basis
24:34of his Dalit identity.
24:35Then you have an incident in Rai Bareilly, where a young boy is lynched, whose identity is,
24:40of course, Dalit.
24:41And then you have an incident of an IPS officer in Haryana, whose letter, in his suicide letter,
24:46details the fact that he was discriminated against solely on the basis of his identity
24:52of being Dalit.
24:53Why should the opposition not pick this up as a pattern where it comes down to attacking
24:59one particular community?
25:01What's wrong with that?
25:02So, Preeti, at the outset, as you just said, that just because there's an election around,
25:07we can't just link the three and give it an identity.
25:09Each case has its own merit.
25:11When you talk about the Chief Justice being attacked, he wasn't attacked because he's
25:14a Dalit.
25:15I condemn the attack.
25:17I condemn every single incident.
25:18There should be a thorough investigation into this case as well.
25:21But to link everything to a BJP government acting against Dalits, that sort of narrative
25:27which Rahul Gandhi, Priyanka Wadra, and Malika Arjun Khadgi are building, I think that's
25:31not called for.
25:32There are instances of such crimes happening in Congress rule states also.
25:35Karnataka, for example.
25:36Karnataka has actually slashed SCST fund.
25:39Talk about a policy which is affecting them directly.
25:4214,000 crores slashed from SCST funds.
25:44So, you know, we can't link it to one particular party or one particular identity.
25:49It is wrong and it should be investigated.
25:52Having said that, if we start jumping the gun and start looking at everything through
25:55the prism of identity, we remember Rohit Vemila's case.
25:59Everybody jumped the gun.
26:01What happened in March 2024?
26:02Not many know that.
26:04That it was the Gachi Boli police under the Congress government, the Telangana government,
26:08which gave a clean sheet to all who were pretty much accused and held an entire media trial
26:13was held about abetment to suicide.
26:15They were acquitted of that and it was a suicide due to other reasons.
26:18So, you know, let's not jump the gun and let's objectively look at each case rather than
26:23painting an entire picture about a party.
26:25This is Manu Wadi.
26:26We can't be doing that.
26:27We'll be grossly irresponsible if we do something like that.
26:30And it's pretty much in line with what Rahul Gandhi wants.
26:32He wants figures in the society to be exploited, the fault lines to be exploited.
26:36We should avoid and refrain from doing that.
26:38Tahseen Poonawala, is it as simplistic as this?
26:41I wish it was as simple, but it isn't.
26:45The fact of the matter is, when the Chief Justice of India, a shoe is hurled at him, and the
26:51attacker goes about giving interviews on his platform, that it shows the kind of mindset
26:57that is going on.
26:58I was on another show of a very prominent woman anchor and full solidarity that the women
27:03anchors were not called and the women journalists were not called today.
27:07And the person who is defending the BJP, an official BJP spokesperson said, yeh kaise Dalit
27:12Chief Justice.
27:13I'm using these words very clearly.
27:14To Louis Vuittauka's calf pente.
27:16That is the level of insensitivity in our society as of today.
27:20This was a BJP spokesperson on a very prominent journalist show.
27:24That's what's happening in our country.
27:26Rashid is right.
27:27Maybe the Chief Justice has forgiven the attacker, but the attack was a criminal offence.
27:33Forget contempt of court.
27:34It was a criminal offence.
27:35He should have been in jail.
27:36Let me ask very humbly with my hands folded.
27:38If any other political leader of this attack would have happened, would the attacker have
27:41been platformed and celebrated on social media?
27:43The fact is somebody who was mob lynched because they thought he was an alleged criminal.
27:50And then the name of a Chief Minister is taken shows the kind of mindset we're coming from.
27:55The opposition is not just duty bound.
27:58It is the moral responsibility of the opposition to bring this out because this is our country.
28:03We cannot allow mob justice and a large section of our fellow citizens to be humiliated.
28:09If after 70 odd years of independence, the Chief Justice has shoes thrown and an official spokesperson says,
28:15but he wears a Louis Vuittau scarf.
28:17Is that where we are heading as a country?
28:19And these remarks have happened for Kharkiji as well, who also comes from the same community.
28:23This community is continuing to be discriminated against.
28:26These are not my words, the words of our Honourable Prime Minister.
28:31You know, I want to cut across to Raghavavasti right now.
28:34Raghavavasti, the fact is something that Karan also said, that there is an attempt,
28:38especially by the opposition, to create fissures in society on the lines of caste.
28:43And I would reckon, you know, one can use that and say it when you come from a position of privilege
28:49where the caste hierarchy comes into question.
28:51Because I don't think that anybody is going to try and create fissures.
28:54Those fissures already exist.
28:56One can suggest that you have a political party that is trying to exploit that.
29:02You know, that's a question that can be asked.
29:04But to suggest that all is well and these, you know, crevices are being created politically
29:12would be the wrong reading of where we stand today.
29:15I think as far as the political angle is concerned, I doubt very much
29:22that any of this incident is going to have any sort of impact on the election in Bihar.
29:28Ultimately, the electorate votes on the basis of what they receive from various political parties.
29:34And this sort of news, maybe it might dominate a couple of news cycles,
29:39but I don't think it will have so much of an impact on election.
29:42The Congress party in any case is irrelevant.
29:44And they have been irrelevant for a long time in Bihar.
29:47Now, as far as the three incidents are concerned, each and every incident has to be evaluated on its merit.
29:53What happened in the courtroom that day was absolutely disgraceful.
29:57And this person, this so-called lawyer should definitely be hauled up for criminal contempt of court.
30:05The problem in India is that there are too many lawyers who don't have enough briefs,
30:10but they still keep their bar license and they commit sometimes incidents, actions like this,
30:16just to get some sort of mileage of officers.
30:19So, I think that's the first incident.
30:21As far as the suicide of this police officer is concerned,
30:24it has to be discriminated, it has to be investigated as thoroughly as possible.
30:28And whoever the culprit has to be brought to go.
30:32And the same goes for the Rai Bareilly incident.
30:36I do not believe in political terms that there is anything like a pan-India Dalit vote.
30:43Now, I'm talking in my capacity as a student of politics.
30:47People vote on the basis of what they feel, on the basis of which party is going to deliver for them,
30:54whatever benefits they might get from any political party,
30:57is the deciding factor as far as their vote is concerned.
31:01And I think it is going to remain this way.
31:03Having said that, there are some politicians who have become irrelevant.
31:08They have lost the third consecutive Lok Sabha election.
31:11In any other country, they would have been replaced as the face of the opposition long ago.
31:16And I think it's a bit of a systemic problem with the Congress party,
31:20which is why they try and behave like an NGO at times.
31:24I want to bring in Dr. Yangre into this conversation.
31:27Dr. Yangre, you know, right now, there is an attempt from either side.
31:31There's an attempt, and I'm just talking about the politics of it all.
31:34You can reflect on the social narrative.
31:36But you have the opposition that is trying to build in, in India,
31:40each of these incidents as a longer and a more cohesive narrative of subjugation of a particular community,
31:47which they will or they look at leveraging politically, but there's nothing wrong in that.
31:52On the other hand, there is this attempt by the other side to suggest that these are all lone incidents
31:58and they've been just tied together.
31:59That's not quite the truth, is it, Dr. Yangre?
32:02It's good to see you, Priti.
32:04And I commend the team who put together these three atrocities in a frame to just give us a picture of what just happened in a week's time.
32:11And it's really ranges from various class, profession and vocation that we kind of cover.
32:17I, before coming on this panel, I spoke to current serving Dalit IPS officers and to kind of get their sense of how they look at it and how they, what the reaction is.
32:30And it really, you know, it really starts from the day they pass the exam.
32:35And once they get to interviews, you know, and when they get to interviews, obviously the interview bias then delegates them according to the rank.
32:44And then despite of all those barriers, some of them, a handful of them cut through the cutthroat competition
32:50and then get the coveted posts within the administrative police and revenue and so forth department.
32:56Now, when they go into this, you know, training and so forth, there's this extremely unhelpful and almost a repressive psychology that works alongside them by fellow trainees.
33:15Where, first of all, it is, you know, you got it free, you are a quota candidate, and it just doesn't apply for the people who are in the service.
33:23This applies across various schools and colleges and examination.
33:25And then it doesn't just happen within the grades of, you know, super class positions, but it happens across the kind of various ranks where people often kind of complain and talk to each other.
33:37Now, many, because of this kind of hostility, they're ashamed to disclose their caste.
33:43And I remember, because they feel that they are from the quota, and oftentimes they just kind of end up living an isolated life.
33:50And what does that do, Priti, is it doesn't really open yourself up to other possibilities of coalitions, solidarities, and groups.
33:58And many of them just want to just get the job because they've come from almost nothing to what they have.
34:03And that creates kind of a double whammy.
34:05The first is you isolate yourself from the community and the political experiences that you may have.
34:11And then, because you're politically incorrect in the situation, you then get doubly targeted.
34:16Now, when this happens, what happens is when they are in the service, micro and macro aggressions continue to happen because of their caste.
34:25It starts with the position or postings that they want.
34:29They can't really associate with their groups, with their people, or as it will be tamed as if these people are favorable.
34:35They can't act out of freedom.
34:37And more importantly, what the slain IPS officer, Mr. Kumar, wrote, he used the word mental persecution.
34:46And this really goes to kind of think about how false charges are leveled against kind of known officers.
34:54And this is not an isolated incident.
34:56And obviously, what we need to see is this is not just a moment that we need to investigate and which will come in five years' time, Preeti.
35:04We need to look at this as really a systemic issue and we really need to overhaul the system.
35:10Just tell me how many IPS, IAS or IRS and so forth officers who belong to the SCSD community have a support base as much as the general category people.
35:20And tell me how many director general of police belong to SCSD communities or how many have they been.
35:26We just know this system is corrupt and extremely hostile.
35:29Doesn't matter BJP, doesn't matter Mamata, doesn't matter Congress and so forth.
35:34All of these are naked when it comes to performing an actual job of delivering justice.
35:39You know, I am going to give all of you, I don't have the time because we had some breaking news right on the top.
35:43But I am going to try very hard to give you 30 seconds each to put your point forward.
35:47But can we begin with Rashid Kidwai and Karan, we will come to you after. Go ahead, Rashid ji.
35:52Preeti, I was very disappointed with the cold and kind of mechanical response that my friend Karan and Raghav sought to give.
36:02As if, you know, these are the sort of isolated incidents and they are not going to make any kind of political impact and that the opposition is trying to reap a political benefit.
36:12Right. First of all, each incident is very shocking, particularly the incident of, you know, suicide and killing and all are the very extreme and very inhuman and it's a blot on civil society.
36:25Now, to say that the opposition would have any kind of, you know, hand in it is absolutely untrue and uncalled for. Opposition is reacting to a situation.
36:36And as Dr. Suraj was saying, there is a kind of systemic discrimination that takes place.
36:41At least, if we cannot do anything, we must acknowledge it, that this is happening and therefore, therefore, you know, in particular in Haryana's case, very quickly, I want to say, when the chief secretary and, you know, the DGP are involved, there should be exemplary sort of action should be taken.
36:55We just cannot say because that's already happening, that actually, Rashid ji is already happening, Karan, 30 seconds. I don't have time, but just try and wrap up.
37:03So, I was calling out the hypocrisy of the Congress when it tried to label the BJP and RSS as anti-Dalit, a party that opposed revocation of Article 370, which denied reservation to the Walmiki Samaj for so many years.
37:14So, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. When you have a Walmiki scam going on, when you say, when you oppose Mandel, when Pandit Nehru writes a letter saying, I am against SCST reservation because it leads to second-grade citizens.
37:28So, then you've not walked the talk. The number one organization that has done most for Dalits is Siva Bharati. The number one organization that has done most for tribals is the Vanuasi Kalyan Ashram.
37:37So, I believe in deliverables on the ground rather than lip service and rather than running narratives during elections.
37:42Raghavavasti, 30 seconds, please make your point.
37:46I don't agree with my friend, Mr. Kidwai. I don't think mine is a cold, heartless response at all.
37:52Having said that, I maintain, and as Mr. Yengle very correctly pointed out, this has nothing to do with the BJP or the Congress, but it has more to do with the systemic issues that we have as a society.
38:05Now, we can examine the historical context of it. Having said that, I repeat, it is likely to have zero impact on the Bihar Vedansabha election, and the Congress has zero chances of improving its tally on the basis of history.
38:19Okay. All right. Tahseen, you wanted to come in for a while. Go ahead.
38:23Everything is not about winning elections. A large section of our fellow citizens are being discriminated against.
38:30Even if they are in service, as Dr. Suraj rightly said, they are not breaking the top barriers.
38:35Let's look at Uttar Pradesh. How many IPS officers from this community are today police commissioners or SPs of important districts? Zero.
38:42How many district magistrates are there? Zero. That is the problem.
38:46You've had one Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in so many years, in over the last 15 years.
38:51That is the problem. They may get, they may come to a point, but the glass ceiling still exists, and they're not able to break it.
38:57And that discrimination continues in our society. It's not about elections. It's about giving dignity to our fellow citizens, irrespective of politics.
39:04Dr. Suraj, sir, 30 seconds. That's all I have. Go ahead, sir.
39:07Thank you, Preeti. I would like to echo the sentiment shared by all the panelists.
39:11They all have heart in the right places, and they would want to communicate the kind of space they want to create for fellow Dalits and Adiwatsi.
39:18Then I hope they go back to their constituency and really educate them about the importance of how what constitution stands for.
39:24My heart really goes out to the family of the brother IPS Kumar.
39:30But also, I think the state should take it as a mandatory exercise in introducing much more deterrent measures than education.
39:39I'm not even saying the law, but whenever you get mPanel or you get into service, there should be a compulsory course that educates you about the plight condition and the status of SCST communities.
39:51So when you're educated, you may not commit another atrocity and participate in this horrendous massacre that we see.
39:58Well, gentlemen, thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
40:00It's a longer, larger debate that should have been touched on.
40:03My apologies. We had a bit of news break right on top, and that needed to be addressed.
40:06Thank you for joining us. With that, I want to quickly step into more news break that's coming.
40:11The NDS seat allocation for the Bihar elections will be announced tomorrow.
40:14It's all done and dusted, I hear.
40:16And it will be announced on Saturday, which is tomorrow in Patna.
40:20The BJP co-group will meet in Delhi on Sunday.
40:23On Monday, the BJP Central Election Committee will meet to finalize the names of candidates for the Bihar Assembly elections.
40:30So that's the latest news that is coming in right now.
40:33Aishwarya Paliwal breaking the news.
40:35Aishwarya, it seems all seat-sharing talks now done and dusted, the number crunching over, all the posturing come to a rest.
40:47Numbers will be out tomorrow in terms of seat-sharing.
40:49Well, definitely, this is something that we will be looking at.
40:53And let me tell you, we have seen a lot of tug and war.
40:55We have also seen the visuals, you know, of Damain Pradaan, Vinod Tavre, Nityanand Rai, all of them back and forth.
41:01A lot of conversation, a lot of meetings with the likes of Chirag Passman.
41:04We have heard that Upendu Kushwaha also is someone, you know, who's had a series of meetings with the BJP leaders.
41:10Because the NDA now is all set.
41:12They have divided the seats amongst all the allies.
41:16They will now be making the announcement tomorrow.
41:18And who will be contesting on the BJP seats?
41:20That is something that the CEC will decide.
41:22The CEC will take place on Monday.
41:24So we should say over the course of the next four to five days, everything will be crystal clear.
41:28We are also understanding that there is also likely an official announcement being made by the NDA with regards to Nidish Kumar that he's the one who will be the chief minister for the NDA.
41:38So that's also something that we are expecting happening in the next couple of weeks.
41:41When, Ashwarya, will this announcement be made?
41:45Piti, we should be expecting this announcement over the course of the next three to four days.
41:48Because from what we are understanding, the opposition also is very clearly looking at coming out on 12th.
41:54That's what we are understanding.
41:55It will be the opposition and then we will see the NDA also coming out and formally making this announcement.
42:00That will be a big announcement.
42:01But at the moment, the crucial news, in the next 24 hours, we will see the announcements with regards to the NDA bloc who will be fighting how many seats.
42:08All that will be made clear in that press conference that will happen.
42:12All right.
42:13Thank you, Ashwarya, for joining us.
42:15So, yes, it's been a hectic week of fair amount of political posturing.
42:19But the number crunching over now and by tomorrow, we'll have the NDA seat sharing arrangement.
42:25And Congress will follow soon.
42:27And then in the next couple of days, you have to come up with the names of candidates.
42:31Because 17th October is the final date to submit your nominations if you're in phase one.
42:38And phase two is the 20th of October.
42:41And 20th of October is also the date of taking your nomination back if you don't want to contest.
42:47So now, to a very disconcerting story that has been unfolding, the killer cough syrup controversy continues to expand.
42:55After a pharma factory in Tamil Nadu was found with over 350 violations, an India Today investigation has now found shocking revelations in Madhya Pradesh,
43:04where a drug testing van sits unused as contaminated syrups continue to kill children.
43:10As probe continues and the death toll due to cough syrup mounts, questions are being raised over the gaps in India's drug regulatory system.
43:18The man behind the tragedy that has shaken the nation.
43:27The main accused in the cough syrup controversy, the owner of Coal Drift Making Company, Srisan Pharma,
43:33and the man who was arrested in Tamil Nadu on Thursday, has been brought to Madhya Pradesh for further investigation.
43:38He was tracked down to a relative's house after days on the run and was reportedly planning to flee abroad.
43:45Investigators say more arrests are likely as they continue to track the lapses found at the Coal Drift Making Pharma plant.
43:53As questions continue to be raised over the failures in drug regulation,
43:57an India Today investigation has found Bhopal's mobile drug testing van lying abandoned in an abhorrent condition.
44:04It was purchased in 2022 to test drug samples on site,
44:08but the drug testing van now sits unused and rusting in Madhya Pradesh's capital.
44:12This is a mobile drug testing van.
44:42The van is supposed to speed up testing,
44:55but India Today's investigation has revealed that sample testing from places like Jindwara still takes as long as three days.
45:02A big problem is that when testing has been released,
45:08they have been reached in several days to test lab.
45:11This is the 7 October sample sample that was released.
45:14The test lab is reached here.
45:18So, three days later in the test lab,
45:21the testing will be reached in one or two days.
45:23This investigation raises serious questions over whether the child deaths were easily
45:39avoidable. Because if the van had been in a working condition, could testing have been
45:44done on time and in turn perhaps the tragedy in Jindwara could be prevented.
45:53A farmer factory in Tamil Nadu bit over 350 violations. A farmer firm in Rajasthan that
46:18has continued syrup supply after being banned twice. And now a drug testing ban in Madhya
46:22Pradesh that sits unused as contaminated syrups continue to endanger the lives of her children.
46:29How many more regulatory failures remain veiled in a drug system that has failed its own children?
46:34With Ravish Pal Singh and Bhopal, Bureau Report, India Today.
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