- 11 months ago
Mathew Bowyer, the California bookmaker who took $326 million in wagers from Ippei Mizuhara, Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter, is about to serve a year in prison for his crimes. Bowyer tells Forbes about how he met Mizuhara and how his illegal operation unraveled.
Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyakowicz/2025/09/27/bookie-tied-to-ohtanis-interpreter-says-half-of-all-pro-athletes-gamble-on-sports/
00:00 Introduction
00:28 Inside The Day Mathew Bowyer Was Arrested
03:10 How Mathew Became One Of America's Biggest Bookmakers
05:24 Meeting Ippei Mizuhara
09:05 The First Shohei Ohtani Wire Transfer
12:31 Gambling and the Integrity of Sports
13:23 Legalized Gambling and Increased Problems
17:36 Bowyer's Other Clients and Avoiding Rigged Games
18:56 Interplay Between Illegal and Legal Gambling Markets
26:51 The $65 Billion Illegal Nationwide Sports Betting Market
28:46 Money Laundering with Legal Marijuana Businesses
31:39 Why Mizuhara's Credit Was Not Cut Off
34:08 The Bookmaker's Service Perspective
37:15 Feeling of Responsibility in the Scandal
41:07 Effectiveness of Sports Gambling Monitoring Companies
43:41 Pervasiveness of Insider Trading in Sports
45:48 Life After Prison
46:50 Post-Prison Career Path: Inspiration and Motivation
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Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyakowicz/2025/09/27/bookie-tied-to-ohtanis-interpreter-says-half-of-all-pro-athletes-gamble-on-sports/
00:00 Introduction
00:28 Inside The Day Mathew Bowyer Was Arrested
03:10 How Mathew Became One Of America's Biggest Bookmakers
05:24 Meeting Ippei Mizuhara
09:05 The First Shohei Ohtani Wire Transfer
12:31 Gambling and the Integrity of Sports
13:23 Legalized Gambling and Increased Problems
17:36 Bowyer's Other Clients and Avoiding Rigged Games
18:56 Interplay Between Illegal and Legal Gambling Markets
26:51 The $65 Billion Illegal Nationwide Sports Betting Market
28:46 Money Laundering with Legal Marijuana Businesses
31:39 Why Mizuhara's Credit Was Not Cut Off
34:08 The Bookmaker's Service Perspective
37:15 Feeling of Responsibility in the Scandal
41:07 Effectiveness of Sports Gambling Monitoring Companies
43:41 Pervasiveness of Insider Trading in Sports
45:48 Life After Prison
46:50 Post-Prison Career Path: Inspiration and Motivation
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Des Moines, Iowa, there's a bookmaker or many in Des Moines, Iowa, you know, whether it's some little town in Kentucky, there's a bar somewhere where there's a bookmaker and people know to go talk to him and get an account or golf course or whatnot.
00:13And even if there's not, there's a bookmaker that has a runner that will go down there and deal with these people or send a Venmo or a cash app or whatever it is.
00:21So at the end of the day, there's availability for illegal bookmakers throughout the country.
00:25Hey guys, my name is Will Jakowitz. I'm a senior writer with Forbes magazine. I report on the wonderful world of vices.
00:35And today I'm here with Matthew Boyer. And for anyone who has been, I guess, not paying attention, you might not know Matthew Boyer.
00:43But so Matt was the bookie for Ipe Mizuhara, the interpreter for Shohei Otani, the Dodgers player and one of the best players in baseball, if not today's best in history, in history. Right.
00:57I agree. Yeah. I think the best athlete on the planet, in my opinion. Right. I mean, truly, he's incredible. But thanks for having me.
01:03Yeah. Thanks for coming, Matt. I appreciate it.
01:05So about two years ago, in October 23, your house was raided. Can you tell us what happened and why your house got raided?
01:15It was October 5th at 930 in the morning, and I was putting my son in my wife's car. And I heard FBI freeze.
01:22I looked over and there was eight AR rifles and full tactical gear, 29 agents, a dog.
01:28And then about eight hours later, after they ransacked our home and cleaned it out every which way, I realized they were there, I thought, because of Shohei Otani.
01:38But it really wasn't. It was a Las Vegas investigation that KYC casinos is what led them really to me, and I'm sure many other things.
01:47But in particular, that.
01:49Wow. Yeah.
01:50And you got sentenced last month to 12 months and one day.
01:54Correct.
01:55Right. Yeah.
01:55When are you surrendering?
01:57October 10th, which is, I think, in 22 days, six hours and nine minutes.
02:01Yeah. You're not keeping track, right?
02:03No, not at all.
02:04I'm counting down the minutes because I have a limited time to continue to work, build my brand, recalibrate, as my book talks about, and just also spend family time.
02:15It's a juggle because that glass sand hour where it's slowly coming down, I've never really felt this much pressure of that.
02:25But I definitely have it now.
02:27Yeah.
02:27Yeah.
02:28Yeah, man.
02:28And what are you, what's one of the last things you want to do?
02:31Do you have like a bucket list for these last month?
02:34I just really show my children, you know, that this is adversity and how you handle it.
02:40So the next, every day I'm doing that.
02:41But as far as a bucket list, just spending a lot of quality time with my family as much as I can.
02:46Yeah.
02:46Yeah.
02:47Got to get it in.
02:47Yeah.
02:48Just because I know I'm going to be non-existent basically other than phone calls and my wife will come down and see me.
02:54And of course, some of my kids will.
02:55But, you know, eight months, six months, I should be home with good time.
03:00So it's not the end of the world.
03:01It's just, you got to, it's going to be tough just being away from them.
03:04But, you know, I was committing a crime and I knew it.
03:07So I knew I had exposure and just never really thought I would be here today.
03:11That's for sure.
03:12Yeah.
03:13Yeah.
03:13And, you know, speaking of what you were charged with, you know, running an illegal bookmaking operation, money laundering.
03:20Can you tell us how you got to become, you know, one of our nation's biggest illegal bookies?
03:27My operation was ran very clean.
03:28And I say that because unlike a lot of bookmakers, I didn't wait for the losers to pay, to pay the winners.
03:35I tried to pay everybody on Monday, if not Tuesday, if you're out of the state.
03:40And I think that facilitation and the betters, customers knew that they were going to be paid very promptly and swiftly.
03:48And also, I really tried to build relationships.
03:51It was more than, you know, the business was, I was a CEO of an organization.
03:56It was just illegal.
03:56And I ran it from all the way down to my agents, to my runners, to be very professional, truly.
04:03And I think that's what separated me from other bookmakers.
04:06And, of course, the main reason is I was willing to take bets.
04:09Most bookmakers were not.
04:11Like what?
04:12A million dollars on a football game.
04:15You know, just bigger dollar amounts, bigger credit lines, more risk, more.
04:19I tend to have a lot of gambling in me.
04:21So for that reason, some bookmakers are a little risk-averse and they're more balanced.
04:28They're definitely running a business as if one customer can't defeat them.
04:33I've been through that myself.
04:34I've allowed that to occur.
04:36So, but as I got bigger financially, I just was able to take more.
04:41And I got pushed a lot of business that other bookmakers would push away.
04:45And how big was your book revenue-wise on an annual level?
04:50I mean, I took over a billion dollars in wagers in 2023.
04:53Wow.
04:53Obviously, one customer, given facts from the government, were $326 million being E-Pay.
05:00But he was not my biggest client.
05:03He was my biggest loss of a client, biggest customer in that regard.
05:07But I had clients that were with me numerous years.
05:11So he was an 18-, 20-month window.
05:15He obviously was betting a lot, $326 million, 19,000 bets.
05:18But in that regard, I had a lot of players that were of his caliber.
05:23Wow.
05:23Yeah.
05:24And I guess the, you know, I get, we'll start with, you know, how did you meet Mizuhara?
05:29And when did you know his association with Otani?
05:32I met him, I believe, in September of 2021.
05:36I may be wrong on the date, but it's right in that area.
05:38I believe it was September.
05:40He, I went to an Angels-Padre game in San Diego.
05:44After the game, I was invited to a private poker game slash just, I would call it really a get-together.
05:51Because not everyone there was playing poker.
05:54But after the game, these athletes get bored.
05:56They go back to the hotel.
05:57Some watch movies.
05:58Some go to sleep.
05:59Some hang out with their families.
06:01Most of them are single, the younger ones, or maybe haven't developed a family yet.
06:06And they're on the road.
06:07So they play poker or they gamble or they mess around.
06:10So in this poker game, there was probably three or four Angels players and then first base coach, I think, third base coach, and then maybe eight or ten other regular Joes, me being one of those.
06:23In that process, there was probably 13, 15 guys in the room, and E.P. Mizuhara was one of them.
06:28So that's how it all started.
06:30And then he was actually placing a wager on his cell phone.
06:33And I don't know what organization he was betting with, but my friend, who was an agent for me, saw that and just mentioned to him, hey, listen, Matt can facilitate that for you as well.
06:44So that's how the relationship started.
06:46Wow.
06:46And did you recognize him?
06:48Did you know who he was when you saw him?
06:49Yeah, I definitely knew who he was.
06:50I mean, I didn't know it was going to lead to this conversation, to be honest.
06:55But it was a really small account, and it was $1,000 a game, $8,000 a credit line, which is very normal for an interpreter or someone of that caliber who makes that kind of money.
07:05And it just escalated beyond fast.
07:08Yeah.
07:08Yeah.
07:08And what was E.P.'s biggest bet with you?
07:12I believe he laid $160,000 on a game.
07:16I did cap him at $100,000 a game, so the game, I think, was a soccer bet for minus $160,000, something like that.
07:22But never more than that.
07:24But the amount of volume he had at $100,000 a game and parlays and just so many wagers, some of these games had a tremendous amount of equity riding on them, for sure.
07:35Right.
07:35Yeah.
07:36And reading through the texts that were made and that the government released as public, it was very clear that he had a problem gambling.
07:48Right.
07:49Not just that he was losing, but it was very clear it was compulsive.
07:51Sure.
07:52At what point did you realize that you had someone who had a gambling problem on your belt?
07:58Very early.
07:59I'd be lying otherwise.
08:01Like, I would say within maybe six weeks of meeting him because I, being a degenerate gambler, somebody who gambled my whole life and clearly bet every day and bet way too many bets and too many games, could recognize that really quickly.
08:16And a guy who's betting soccer games that we've never heard of, or in countries I've never heard of, you know, throughout the night, all night long, it's definitely not a recreational bettor.
08:27Yeah.
08:27So that was pretty obvious.
08:28But the reality is some people do that and they can control just the dollar amounts and it still could be recreational even if they're betting a lot of games.
08:36But he was clearly chasing and he clearly was upping everything and getting out of control.
08:43Well, I would say I didn't realize that until probably the third wire transfer.
08:46In fact, I didn't even know they were from Shohei Otani until the third wire transfer.
08:50Wow.
08:51The first two, well, mind you, I was receiving these wires, but not to me directly.
08:56Yeah.
08:56I've been debanked.
08:57So I had to move them through, which is part of my money laundering charges.
09:01I had to allow other people to receive them for me.
09:03Right.
09:04Right.
09:04And so, yeah, I want to, there's a couple of things in there I want to get to, but the first wire transfer from Otani's bank account.
09:13Right.
09:14When did it come and how did you respond to seeing that name?
09:18I think it wasn't, I don't know the facts on this.
09:21The case would verify this, but I don't think it was until like maybe December or November.
09:25I don't even remember.
09:26It wasn't right away.
09:28Yeah.
09:28Of 21.
09:29Yes.
09:29End of 21.
09:30Maybe it was in November, but he, and the reason for that is we set up an $8,000 credit line.
09:35He raised, I raised it to 40.
09:37He requested to raise it again.
09:39I raised it to 300.
09:40And then he finally, I made him send the wire because I wasn't going to keep extending credit, especially to an interpreter of this kind of money.
09:46And then once he showed proof of payment, he asked for 500,000.
09:50And then I immediately did that, of course, because he showed that, you know, that he paid.
09:54And then more importantly, he didn't seem ever, I mean, you, you saw the text messaging.
09:58You could tell he's a degenerate, but you, you also don't ever see any signs of distress.
10:02Right.
10:03He even makes fun of himself.
10:04He laughs about it.
10:05It says, I'm terrible at this, which as a gambler, I've done that many times.
10:08When you lose six in a row, you're just like, I'm terrible, but you still want to do it.
10:12Yeah.
10:12And it wasn't like he ever said to me, you know, oh my God, you know, I'm in massive trouble.
10:18Or it was more like, hey, this is funny.
10:20I'm really bad at this.
10:22Can you give me another 500,000?
10:23Can you give me another million?
10:25And of course the payments were coming.
10:27So why would I not?
10:29You know, at the end of the day, I mean, people ask me, how do you give an interpreter $40 million in credit?
10:34Right.
10:34I didn't view him as an interpreter.
10:36I viewed him as a customer that was paying and where he got his money and how much he had was none of my, none of my business.
10:42Right.
10:42Now, in hindsight, I wish I would have, because I don't want to see Ipe Mizahara in prison.
10:48Yeah.
10:48And I definitely didn't want to have a tarnish towards Shohei Itani's reputation.
10:52So, and I definitely don't want to be going to prison myself.
10:54So all three things, nobody really has won.
10:58You know, it's been a bad situation for all three parties and that's really a bad ending to a story.
11:02Yeah.
11:03Yeah, absolutely.
11:04And so when that wire transfer from Itani's bank account came, what was your reaction?
11:11Well, I can't swear here, so I'll keep it clean.
11:14You can.
11:15You can swear.
11:16We can bleep it out.
11:16It was absolutely holy.
11:18Because the reality was, is of course the greed side of me was like, now I know this is unlimited funds.
11:25Right.
11:25And this is exactly who I technically was hoping it was betting because Ipe Mizahara clearly doesn't make $20 million or whatever the number, $40 million it ends up becoming.
11:35So I wanted to make sure that I didn't just let him cut his own head off, you know, because technically if an interpreter blows $2 million, I don't care how much he has saved.
11:46But it's probably going to be depleted pretty quickly unless his parents are wealthy or something.
11:51So when I knew it was Shohei Itani, the wires were, then I was very excited.
11:57Yeah.
11:57And also ego-wise, I mean, what better customer do you have on the planet than that?
12:03Yeah.
12:03You have a guy who's going to make a billion dollars, really, between endorsements and et cetera.
12:08And you have a guy who is, I think, the best player ever to set foot on the earth.
12:14So, you know, I'm thinking to me, this is an unlimited supply of money.
12:18Yeah.
12:18You know, and of course, I'm not going to sit here and say I didn't enjoy it.
12:21Not only was I gambling at the highest levels, but I'm a guy who likes finer things.
12:25I mean, who doesn't?
12:26Yeah.
12:26So it was feeding my appetite.
12:28It was also feeding my lifestyle.
12:30And frankly, I was enjoying it.
12:31Right.
12:31Yeah.
12:32And, you know, to be clear, anybody who's tuning in now, Ohtani was not found guilty of anything.
12:39Correct.
12:39He has denied ever gambling with you.
12:41Right.
12:41And Ipe copped to essentially stealing money from Ohtani without his knowledge.
12:48Correct.
12:48Yeah.
12:49I guess, you know, the one thing that I think is interesting, like kind of the ripple effects
12:54of your case and the scandal at large is, you know, in like, is the integrity of sports
13:02now in question?
13:03Like, can fans believe any game?
13:05You know, again, Ohtani wasn't gambling with you.
13:08Sure.
13:08But, you know, with the proliferation of sports betting, legal sports betting, and obviously
13:14a $65 billion underground market with illegal sports books, how do you think that has changed
13:21sports?
13:222018 was when, uh, okay.
13:26So the minute that occurred, I knew this was going to happen.
13:29Um, because I don't care what anyone says.
13:33When you allow legalized gambling and it's less taboo and everyone's doing it, you're
13:38going to have more problems with people that are going to do things that they shouldn't
13:41be.
13:41Right.
13:42Uh, it's no different than alcohol.
13:44You know, when alcohol became more available to the world, there's more DUIs, there's more
13:49problems.
13:49Uh, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
13:51I'm just saying it, there's no different in gambling.
13:53So now you have a 21 year old kid who probably wasn't going to gamble maybe until later in Vegas
13:59here and there a little bit is now doing it every day.
14:01Yeah.
14:01And now you take an athlete who's 18, 19 and doesn't have much money and wants to drive
14:07a nice car or maybe creates his own debt, or maybe he's going to college and really
14:11is broke and his parents are barely getting them through it and he's not going to make
14:14it in the pros, but he has an opportunity to maybe miss a basket or win a game by four
14:21instead of 12 when they're killing him, but still winning the game and not changing the
14:25outcome of what they deem is important.
14:27And he can make a million dollars or a hundred grand or 20 grand.
14:31It doesn't matter.
14:32It's just a lot of temptation, you know?
14:34So, and then keep in mind, a lot of these guys are going to create their own gambling
14:39debt of gambling perfectly legally or illegally.
14:44And now they're going to have a problem on their hands.
14:46So they can't pay somebody.
14:48Maybe they're being threatened or maybe it's just pressure.
14:50Now it's like, oh, here's an easy way out.
14:53And we're seeing it.
14:54I mean, what, last week or week before, 13 college players.
14:59Yeah, NCAA players across six teams.
15:02Yeah.
15:02And then you have pros doing it.
15:03I mean, we had Calvin Ridley.
15:06The Porter case.
15:06Right.
15:07So, and there's been many that haven't been brought up yet or found or, you know, maybe
15:13got away with, let's be honest.
15:14Um, and the integrity of the sport is imperative.
15:17Let's be honest.
15:18Nobody's going to watch sports if they can't count on the reality of the players.
15:22Yeah.
15:22So I understand the league's problem, but they clearly are making a lot of money off of gambling
15:27and endorsements and deals with television.
15:30And let's be honest.
15:31Um, most of these stations, TV networks would be out of business without sports.
15:37Right.
15:37I mean, ESPN is, has its own sports book.
15:40Correct.
15:41And I don't blame them.
15:42I get it.
15:42I mean, it's a smart business opportunity, but yeah, what, and so do you think the integrity
15:48of sports has been lost or is it in crisis?
15:51Like what, what's your take?
15:52I don't think it's been lost, but I think it's definitely has, um, some, I'm going to
15:58call it outside issues that they're going to have to maintain and, and figure out.
16:02Uh, because again, I mean, some of these, you know, whether you're making, I mean, what
16:08was it?
16:08There was one NBA player that I can't remember which one, uh, you know, he, he, he, he
16:12makes millions on millions and he had a accusation.
16:16I don't even know where it stands.
16:17Rozier, right?
16:18I don't even know what happened with him.
16:20Terry Rozier.
16:20But if a guy like that, and I'm not saying he did, I don't know the facts, but if he's
16:25willing to jeopardize integrity of the game or be involved in that, when he makes that
16:30much money, that's really scary.
16:32Um, not defending anyone who does any of it, but at least there's some like sense in it
16:36for like a young kid who's never going to be in the NBA and just sees a way out, still
16:41a poor decision, the wrong decision, but I at least can understand their thinking more
16:46than I can at Rozier.
16:48Um, that being said, it's, I don't know how you really stop it other than, uh, crucifying
16:53a player if they're caught involved.
16:56I mean, to the point where they're so scared, I know this, um, when I was a child, when I
17:01did something wrong and I knew the punishment was drastic, I avoided that.
17:05And I think that's common in all people, you know?
17:08So, uh, I think there would be a lot more or a lot less problems if they came down extremely
17:15hard on everybody, which they are.
17:17I'm not saying they're not, but it's gotta be so, they gotta be so scared that they can't
17:22even tow that line.
17:23Uh, I don't know for a college athlete though.
17:26I mean, what does that mean?
17:27You put them in prison for five years.
17:29I mean, that, that's, that might be, that's, that doesn't help the situation either.
17:33So I don't really know the answer, but there's definitely an issue.
17:36Yeah.
17:36And, um, you know, from, from your vantage point of running your own book, you know,
17:41ePay wasn't your biggest client, you know, I don't know if you can say or willing to say,
17:48but like who else were your clients?
17:50If you can give any details, like, are we talking sports team owners, athletes, groundskeepers?
17:56I'll be honest with you.
17:57This book, if you've read it or if you haven't, um, I don't disclose really anyone.
18:04Uh, there's a few names I put in there that I wasn't really happy with because the way
18:07they left our relationship.
18:09So I didn't mind mentioning, but I don't disclose any athletes for a reason.
18:14Just out of respect.
18:14I don't want to cause any drama, um, for someone else's life because of my problem.
18:19Yeah.
18:20That being said, I did have some very big CEOs and people that were very well known,
18:25um, in the world that were betting with me, but none illegally, meaning none were rigging
18:30games or betting on their own sport.
18:32Yeah.
18:32The one thing I did make sure of if I had an athlete is that they weren't betting on their
18:36own sport.
18:37Yeah.
18:37Not even for the integrity of the game.
18:39And of course that's important to me, but truly selfishly, I didn't want to be involved
18:44in a rigged operation, uh, of sports because I know if you're the bookmaker in that situation,
18:50I don't believe the prosecution or judge is going to give you any leniency whatsoever.
18:54And I don't blame them.
18:55Right.
18:56Even though it's not your fault, it's not like you, but if, especially if you have a
18:59play in that, you know, if you're involved, that's, you're going to, the sentencing is
19:03going to be rough.
19:03Yeah.
19:04Right.
19:05Yeah.
19:05That, that's really interesting.
19:06And going, going back to your case, you know, obviously, um, resorts world got involved
19:12and that's how you were caught essentially, right?
19:15The investigation into resorts world and their, um, alleged breaking of know your customer
19:21laws and source of fund laws.
19:23And, um, how porous is the two markets, like illegal gambling and legal gambling at the casino
19:30level?
19:31Like, are these distinct two worlds or are they, you know, the same world with different
19:36neighborhoods?
19:37Like how would you describe how these two economies work together?
19:41Well, the legal side is always going to be there.
19:43Um, I know that the government wants to get rid of it.
19:46So does DraftKings, Fandle, I get it.
19:48But if you think about the reasons illegal bookmakers are in business, it's really something
19:53that when you have to, the government has been so harsh on casinos and banks for KYC to
20:00the point where it's actually hurting them.
20:02It's hurting not only the banks and casinos, but it's actually kind of putting people who
20:08don't want to bet legally.
20:11They're, they're forcing their hand to bet illegally because I'm going to give you an
20:15example.
20:15If you are a surgeon and you are hiding your gambling from your wife and you don't want
20:21a KYC slash financial colonoscopy of filling out all this stuff and sending a wire to DraftKings
20:27or however you fund it, all of that's traceable.
20:30And it's not that you're trying to hide from the government.
20:33Maybe you're just trying to hide your gambling issue from your wife or your children or your
20:37friends or whatever, because, you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's for entertainment,
20:41but let's be honest, most people lose.
20:43I would say 99% do over time.
20:45Yeah.
20:45And a lot of men are definitely not disclosing to their wives what they're doing.
20:51Yeah.
20:51And some women to their boyfriends or husbands, right?
20:53This is no, no different.
20:54But I say that in general, because I've seen so many men who hide from their wives, how much
20:59they're losing gambling.
21:00And I understand they don't want to have an argument or, but they still want to do it.
21:03So putting everything through DraftKings or FanDuel is going to put eyes on all of that.
21:08There's bank records, there's wires, there's credit cards, whatever.
21:11Yeah.
21:12Betting with a legal bookmaker, I mean, you can go grab, you know, two grand in cash and say,
21:17you know, you spend it on this or whatever and go pay the bookmaker that way or send a Venmo
21:20or there's so many ways and it doesn't say DraftKings or FanDuel or MGM.
21:25That's one issue.
21:26The other issue is as a better, you know, because I'm a better as well, or at least I was, when
21:32you bet with a bookmaker illegal, you get credit.
21:35And that credit is so imperative for two reasons.
21:38Number one, let's just, for argument's sake, say you're $1,000 per game wager on average.
21:44Okay.
21:44So if I have an account with DraftKings and on Sunday I want to bet five games, I need $5,500
21:49put up front.
21:51Yeah.
21:51Right?
21:52It doesn't mean I'm going to lose $5,500.
21:54I might go two and three and lose, what is that, $1,300.
21:58Right.
21:58Okay.
21:59That being said, if I deal with a credit bookmaker, I can get $20,000 in credit and bet 20 games
22:05that day and not have to wait for this game to grade or win or lose to bet the next game.
22:10And ultimately that's what betting is about is entertainment and action on the games.
22:15It's not really about money.
22:16I mean, people claim they're betting for money, but most gamblers, of course, they're trying
22:21to win.
22:21Of course, we're all trying to win.
22:24And some people just end up losing and they quit.
22:26But most people are gambling because it's entertainment.
22:29They don't, whether they would admit it or not, it's really the truth.
22:31Yeah.
22:32So when you watch a game for three hours and you bet money on it, it sweetens the game.
22:37Yeah.
22:37That's why I gambled.
22:38Right.
22:38But of course, I'm trying to win.
22:40That being said, if you have credit, you can bet all the games you want.
22:44And here's the other issue.
22:45NFL, for me, Pacific time, 10 a.m., all the games, right?
22:50They're ending at roughly 105, 110.
22:53Some are going to overtime.
22:54Well, the other games are kicking off.
22:56Some are 105, some are at 130.
22:57130, the league has even changed the timing of the games for this reason, for gambling
23:01purposes.
23:02Oh, wow.
23:02It used to be all at 105.
23:04Now it's like one game and the rest go off at 130.
23:07The reason for that is because these games have to end and these apps and whatnot need
23:11to grade the games and let the people bet the next set of games.
23:14People don't realize that, but that's the reality.
23:16So the issue is, is that if you're betting on not credit, you may not have the funds available.
23:22And your game might be up 44 to 7 with a minute left in the game.
23:26And then you want to bet the Jets versus the Steelers, and the game's going off, and now
23:29you missed out.
23:30Yes, you can bet live, but what if the team you bet, Jets, let's say, in this case, are
23:35up 7-0?
23:36Yeah.
23:37Now you just lost the line that you would have bet.
23:39Right.
23:39The game is gone, and you bet a bad line, and you end up losing a bet you would have won.
23:42Yeah.
23:43Happens all the time.
23:44So credit is so much easier to work with than non-credit.
23:49I'm going off on a tangent here.
23:50No, no.
23:50I was going to ask you about why people, when you can just open up an app on your phone
23:55and gamble legally, why would you gamble illegally?
23:58And here's the other thing.
24:00How much of a pain in the neck, let's just say at 10 a.m., argument's sake, you had a
24:05$5,000 post-up account at DraftKings, and you went, I don't know, 0-3, and you have $800
24:13left in your account.
24:14Now the 1 o'clock games are coming.
24:16You want to bet.
24:17Well, you've got to go get a credit card.
24:19You've got to load the account.
24:21You've got to, I don't know the logistics.
24:22It depends on the person.
24:24You can't send a wire on a Saturday or Sunday, so if it's a credit card or a bank transaction,
24:28that doesn't happen in two seconds.
24:30Now the game's going off, and you want to bet three or four games.
24:32Well, it's real easy.
24:33You just call your bookie and say, hey, Matt, I need another $10,000 in credit.
24:37Yeah.
24:37Okay, Will, no problem.
24:38Done.
24:39It takes 12 seconds, and you have the credit.
24:42Yeah.
24:42So there's so many little nuances that people don't really think about.
24:45All they think is, oh, it's a backdoor bookie that's going to hit you with a baseball bat
24:50in the dark alley if you don't pay.
24:52Yes, there are terms of violence that do occur in that situation.
24:56It's really minimal compared to what it used to be, and those bookmakers are complete idiots
25:00because they're going to be in the worst position than I'm sitting today, and they're
25:04going to be out of business, and that's why most of them don't do those things.
25:07Yeah.
25:07They work it out, or they write it off as a loss.
25:11But it's not quite the taboo, bad, back alley stuff that people think.
25:17Right.
25:18Yeah.
25:18Yeah.
25:18And what's interesting is all the bookmaking software out of Costa Rica has kind of enabled
25:26bookmakers like you, a former bookmaker, to kind of streamline their businesses and not
25:31have to deal with setting odds.
25:33It's seamless.
25:34And you just basically recruit players and collect money and give a portion of your revenue
25:40to somebody in Costa Rica.
25:42And they're brilliant because they have no financial stress.
25:46All they're doing is servicing.
25:48As you said, they're being a facilitator.
25:50But for them, it's easy because whether the client wins or loses is not their prerogative.
25:54They just want to make sure the bookmaker's happy with the service, and the clients are,
25:58of course.
25:59And that's really all they care about.
26:00Right.
26:01And they're getting paid $8 to $10 or some places even more, some or less, per week,
26:06per account, per customer.
26:08You have a million bookmakers across the country right now, and there's over a million.
26:11People don't realize it.
26:13I say that because there's a lot of guys that have eight guys or 10 guys.
26:17They're not this conglomerate bookmaker, but they're still bookmaking.
26:20They have eight or 10 guys, and they keep it small, and no one will ever know about them,
26:23and they don't have to worry about the law, and they're making a good little 100 grand
26:26on the side or 50 or whatever the number is.
26:28And there's a million of those that are out there.
26:31So my level, not as many, of course, because you're talking about millions of dollars,
26:36exposure, we're worrying about feds.
26:38There's so many things that come along with that that most people are smart enough to avoid
26:43and not go down this road.
26:45But it's hard when you're growing a business to, when do I pull back the reins,
26:49and how do I stay off the radar?
26:50I mean, it's easier said than done.
26:52Right.
26:52Yeah.
26:52And would you say there's somebody like you in every city across the U.S.?
26:56I would say everywhere.
26:58Especially the major cities, of course.
27:00There's more of them, or there's more action, more people.
27:04But even the guys who, let's say Des Moines, Iowa, there's a bookmaker, or many in Des Moines, Iowa.
27:11Right.
27:12You know, whether it's some little town in Kentucky, there's a bar somewhere where there's a bookmaker,
27:16and people know to go talk to them and get an account or golf course or whatnot.
27:20And even if there's not, there's a bookmaker that has a runner that will go down there and deal with these people
27:24or send a Venmo or a Cash App or whatever it is.
27:27Yeah.
27:27So at the end of the day, there's availability for illegal bookmakers throughout the country.
27:32Right.
27:32Yeah.
27:32And I find that fascinating.
27:34You know, it's now easier than ever to gamble legally, but we have this, you know, $65 billion illegal sports betting market in the U.S.
27:44And, you know, we're seeing this, and take any category in vices like tobacco, obviously, cigarettes are legal.
27:52In New York City, they estimate 50% of the cigarettes sold in the city are illegal.
28:01And in terms of that, they were smuggled from a low-tax state.
28:05So people are doing tax arbitrage, like I'm going to buy a truck full of cigarettes in Virginia where the taxes are super low
28:11and then sell them to a bodega and, you know, you can get a phony stamp.
28:15And then, you know, you make a lot more money that way.
28:19And, you know, with marijuana, the same thing, legalization across 40 states.
28:24But these two, you know, the licit and illicit side of any of these industries, you know, are porous because there's money to be made from tax arbitrage or, you know,
28:36in a bookmaking case, credit.
28:37And for a player case and bookmaking, you know, you don't – if you win, you don't pay taxes on those winnings unless you want to.
28:46Well, sorry to go off the subject, but you made a good point.
28:50I live in California, so I'll speak about this.
28:53Where sports betting is not legal.
28:55Correct.
28:55But weed is, marijuana.
28:56Right.
28:57And I had a ton of marijuana weed dispensary owners that bet with me back in the day.
29:03Oh, wow.
29:04Tons, and many reasons.
29:06One, they need to wash money.
29:08Yeah.
29:09Two –
29:10But how would they wash money with an illegal book?
29:12Well, they would pay you in cash.
29:14And then if they won, they'd like a Venmo or Cash App or wire transfer to pay them.
29:18Right.
29:18Because they need money in banks.
29:20Yeah.
29:21So I would facilitate a bank wire to a gentleman that won $40,000.
29:26The next week he lost $60,000, he'd give me all cash.
29:28Right.
29:28So now he just cleaned his money just by gambling.
29:31Right.
29:32And that happens a lot.
29:33And my point is, going back to the marijuana industry, most marijuana people in California,
29:40at least that I know, have to have some sort of dark area, gray area.
29:45Backdoor product, yeah.
29:47They can't survive.
29:47Right.
29:48Because the taxes are so high.
29:49Yeah.
29:50They make it so tough on them.
29:52And it's not that they really want to.
29:54It's just they can't even survive, and they can't compete.
29:56Yeah.
29:57So it's a difficult task.
29:58And, you know, of course the government wants their piece, or in this case, it's actually
30:03the state.
30:04Yeah.
30:04Because it's federally.
30:05And the federal government, they get taxed under this tax code 280E, which is specifically
30:11written for anyone who traffics Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 substances.
30:15And weed is still Schedule 1.
30:17Sure.
30:17So, and that's like a 60%.
30:19On the low end, it's like 60% of gross revenue.
30:22Which is really funny because it's illegal.
30:24Yeah.
30:24Totally.
30:25But they're okay to receive their taxes for it.
30:27Yeah.
30:27And any dispensary, you know, most of them are, I mean, now most business and dispensaries
30:33are done through cash, but there's, you know, these things called cashless ATMs, which is
30:39kind of a gray area, and then ACH transfers.
30:42But those ACH transfers, that's on the federal payments rails.
30:46Wow.
30:47And so like Visa and MasterCard, which are credit card companies, obviously don't allow
30:52cannabis purchases.
30:54But the federal government allows cannabis purchases on ACH rails.
31:00And then at the end of the day, say a dispensary has an account at Wells Fargo or Chase or, you
31:07know, most likely a credit union.
31:08Right.
31:09You know, a regional bank.
31:10Most of them, yeah.
31:12They deposit it at the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve will debit that bank account
31:19wherever that is.
31:20Wow.
31:20I wasn't aware of that.
31:21Yeah.
31:21Yeah.
31:21So I, I'm sure, you know, I've been kind of wondering, you know, you and I have been
31:26talking since, like we were saying earlier, since like, yeah, since like right when you
31:30got arrested, this other illegal bookmaker I know gave me your number, and we started
31:36talking.
31:38One thing that I've been wanting to ask you is like, and one thing I just didn't understand
31:43is, why did you keep offering Mizuhara credit?
31:47Like at one point, he was, what was it, 40 million down?
31:51Yeah, he, he owes, well, he still owes you.
31:5324 million, which I'll never receive.
31:54Right.
31:55That was kind of, it was, it's, it's a great question.
31:57Um, I don't know why I chose 24 as a, like a hard stop, but if I allowed him to continue
32:02asking, or I gave him what he requested, it probably would be 50.
32:06Right.
32:06Um, so I had to have some sort of stopping point, but the truth is he was sending me $500,000
32:12every few weeks, regardless of what the balance was.
32:14Okay.
32:14So he wanted to play.
32:16And as a gambler myself, I didn't feel, I mean, this sounds, you know, greedy,
32:21but I am greedy, but I didn't want to give him too much credit.
32:24Cause as you could tell, it was way too much already.
32:27Yeah.
32:27But at the same time, I wanted to be kind enough to give him a chance to win some of
32:30his money back.
32:31Yeah.
32:31I mean, I didn't feel that he would, but at the end of the day, I knew what it feels
32:35like to not be able to play as a gambler.
32:37Yeah.
32:37There's no worse feeling being stuck in Las Vegas.
32:39And you know, I brought $2 million and I have no money left.
32:43I mean, I just want to leave.
32:44Yeah.
32:44You don't even want to be in that city.
32:46That's a feeling I know he was having cause he would even disclose it to me.
32:49Yeah.
32:50And I wanted to at least be kind enough.
32:51There's moments you can look at the text message thing where instead of giving me more credit,
32:55I gave him free play.
32:56Yeah.
32:56Which is a free opportunity just to win some money back without even risking anything.
32:59Yeah.
32:59So it kind of shows you like where, where I felt about him.
33:02Yeah.
33:02I mean, obviously he was a great customer.
33:03He paid me a lot of money.
33:04Yeah.
33:05But I mean, as a human being, I still wanted to let him feed his addiction.
33:09Um, because at this point we were already so deep, it didn't matter.
33:13Right.
33:13You know?
33:14And so were you under the understanding like, all right, $24 million in the hole who, who
33:20gives like, just, I'm not going to see all this money.
33:24It's not like you're outlaying money.
33:25To be honest, I'm telling you the truth.
33:28I think he would have paid every penny of it.
33:29Oh, wow.
33:30Uh, if he continued to have access to it.
33:32Yeah.
33:32I don't know when this would have blew up.
33:34But if, let me just say this, if I wasn't raided by the feds, I believe he would have
33:39continued to pay me until something happened.
33:42And we still don't know the truth, right?
33:44Only Ipe and Shohei know the real honest truth of, and what I mean by that is I do believe
33:49Shohei Itani never gambled in bet sports, but was he aware?
33:53Did he help his friend?
33:54I mean, that's the question mark, the biggest question mark in my, my question.
33:58Um, but I do believe he would have continued to send me money.
34:01Yeah.
34:02And so why would I not continue to do business with a guy who's going to send me 500,000 every
34:07few weeks?
34:07I'm right.
34:08I'm getting a million dollars a month.
34:09Right.
34:10That's a lot of money.
34:11Yeah.
34:11Yeah.
34:12Yeah, it is.
34:13And so I guess like, you know, obviously the answer, part of the answer to that question
34:17is, is money.
34:18Part of it is emotional that like, you know, you're a self-described DGN yourself.
34:23Yeah.
34:24But like, what did you expect to get out of this?
34:27Like why, you know, you're sitting at a bar, you're wasted.
34:30A bartender is going to cut you off, especially if you're not paying your tab, right?
34:34Then it's going to get out of here.
34:36Right.
34:37What made you like, what were you expecting to get out of it?
34:40He paid me already $16.2 million, right?
34:43So my theory was, what do I have to lose at this point?
34:46All I have to do is continue to be kind enough to let him do kind of what he wants without
34:51getting this any further down the road as far as the dollar amount.
34:55But if I can continue to get 500,000 bucks every few weeks, or even if it's every month
34:59and he's happy and he's playing, everybody's winning in my mind.
35:03I mean, of course he's not winning, but I'm facilitating the service that he requested.
35:08Yeah.
35:08At the end of the day, a bookmaker, legal or illegal, is a service.
35:12The service is really simple.
35:14I'm taking action.
35:15You have the choice to make the bets.
35:17You have the choice to decide how much you bet, how much you're willing to risk or lose.
35:21And the reality is, is I provided that service.
35:25He never showed signs of, oh, I'm going to hang myself or I can't believe.
35:30I mean, he would make jokes, but it was never like, oh my God, I'm stealing this money.
35:34Yeah.
35:34The conversations were all put on the federal indictment.
35:37Yeah.
35:37So the world can see kind of at least where I came from and why I was doing what I was doing.
35:43And of course, I was getting 500,000 every two weeks.
35:45I keep saying that because that's reality.
35:47I was running a business.
35:49And if he would have said to me, oh my God, this is ruining my life, the conversations would have been different.
35:54Of course, I still would have tried to collect my money.
35:56Of course, I would have stopped it at that point as far as allowing more credit, which I did really.
36:02At 24, we were there for a while.
36:04If you go back and look, it was probably the last, I'm guessing, six months, eight months.
36:08I don't know.
36:09He got there quick and then I had to put a stop to it.
36:12Yeah.
36:12Because again, he would have been 50 million, 40 million.
36:14Who knows?
36:15And then the number becomes Monopoly.
36:17Yeah.
36:17Which it already kind of was.
36:18It kind of was.
36:19Right.
36:19And it's like you giving, you know, bumping him up in credit.
36:23You weren't outlaying spending money.
36:25It was, you know, funny money until it was like, well, you lost and now you have to pay me.
36:29Right.
36:29And here's the problem.
36:31Like the more funny money it becomes, the less likely I am to get paid.
36:34Yeah.
36:35So I really, truly wanted him to win some back.
36:38Right.
36:38I wanted him to get down to like eight or 10.
36:40Yeah.
36:40Because then I knew it was a lot more feasible to get paid no matter who this was.
36:44Yeah.
36:44Listen, I've been stiff by people that had not as much money as Shohei Itani, but a lot of money.
36:50And they still just choose not to pay.
36:52In fact, I think more honorable people usually are people that you would less suspect.
36:57They would literally break their back to pay because they're just, you know, raised properly and honorable and, you know, want to keep their word.
37:04Yeah.
37:05Some of the wealthier people, there's a reason they're wealthy.
37:07Yeah.
37:08They're not going to let go of some money sometimes.
37:10So keeping it, you know, controlled is very important as a bookmaker.
37:15Right.
37:15Yeah.
37:16That's interesting.
37:16And one thing I was also wondering, and I mean this in a very respectful manner, obviously, but one thing.
37:22You are my feelings.
37:23Yeah.
37:23Yeah.
37:24Totally.
37:25You know, your scandal almost took down, I mean, took down yourself, took down Ipe, almost took down Otani, right?
37:32Sure.
37:33Almost ruined baseball, almost, you know, took down Las Vegas.
37:37I mean, one, the CEO of Resorts World had to step down and lost his gambling license.
37:41The company got a wrist slap, you know, $10 million fine for knowingly taking, you know, bookmakers' money.
37:49Yeah, illegal money.
37:50Like, what is your feeling of responsibility in this?
37:55I just think it's like this awesome weight on your shoulders.
37:59Again, almost ruined baseball, almost took down Vegas, took down yourself.
38:02Well, let's backpedal the Vegas part is the opposite.
38:06It started with another bookmaker, which led to Scott Sabella.
38:11Right.
38:11Which then led to me.
38:12Yeah.
38:13So I feel like the Vegas part is the opposite of that.
38:16They took me down.
38:17Yeah.
38:18To be honest.
38:18Now, that's just my opinion because that's the way it went.
38:21Yeah.
38:21With the web.
38:22Right.
38:22That being said, that web led to me, which led to Ipe, which led to Shohei Otani.
38:28Yeah.
38:29Either way, I'm not a victim.
38:31I don't play victim.
38:32I have hands in this.
38:33I'm definitely dirty as far as I was running a legal business.
38:37And clearly, I could have affected drastically baseball, which it did for a little bit.
38:42I think it's helped it because, not my case, but Shohei Otani just merely has overcome adversity
38:48and became the best.
38:49Well, he already was the best player, but shown he's the best player, in my opinion, ever
38:52by winning the World Series, winning MVP, 50-50.
38:55He's doing it again this year.
38:56He's incredible.
38:57So that really helped pacify this.
38:59But I tried to show the world by cooperating with the federal government and giving all
39:05the true facts that he never placed a wager, which they had to do their homework.
39:09Yeah.
39:09They ran IPs and ran his phone and did everything, and they saw that he never placed any bets.
39:15That's on them.
39:16I can't do that investigation.
39:17But I gave them everything as far as all the wagers, my website, all the factual information,
39:24because I really did want to show that what I knew was not Shohei Otani making these bets.
39:30And I did show that he never been on baseball, because I'm a big fan of baseball, I'm a big
39:35fan of Dodgers, Angels, all the organizations, and I didn't want the integrity of the game
39:39to suffer because of my operation or what happened, and I never planned on this happening.
39:45Yeah.
39:45But I really, it was the fastest case ever in the history to be open and closed in the
39:49federal government.
39:49Yeah.
39:50It was so quick.
39:51I mean, even their, the indictment, I mean, it took like a couple of-
39:55Three months, I think.
39:56Yeah, three months, which was like lightning speed.
39:58And you could look it up.
39:59It's the fastest ever in the history.
40:00I mean, what does that tell you?
40:01Yeah.
40:02So they're smart.
40:02Baseball wanted their golden boy back on the field.
40:05Dodgers did.
40:06I'm clear the world did.
40:07And I don't blame him.
40:08I'm glad he's back on the field.
40:09Yeah.
40:10I love watching the guy play.
40:11Yeah.
40:11Don't mess with baseball.
40:13No.
40:13Go to prison quick.
40:14Exactly.
40:15And, you know, again, I don't want to play victim.
40:18I do feel like I'm a little bit of the fall guy for the Vegas part, not baseball and all
40:23that.
40:23That's, that came from my operation, but the Vegas part, I feel like I kind of got, and
40:28Scott Sabella, to be honest, kind of got on a stick, you know?
40:32Yeah.
40:32That's just my opinion.
40:33Right.
40:34Yeah.
40:34And Damian LaForge, too.
40:35Yeah.
40:35Right.
40:36Who is the first bookie that basically led to Resorts World and led to, yeah.
40:42Well, he's not the first.
40:44Actually, the first bookie was Wayne Nix.
40:45Oh, right.
40:46Yeah.
40:46Yeah, Wayne Nix.
40:47Damian was also part of my case.
40:49Yeah.
40:50And he was a bookmaker and a friend of mine that got caught up because he was going to
40:54Resorts World as well.
40:55Yeah.
40:55Right.
40:56Right.
40:57And one thing I find interesting and wanted to see what you think about, you know, have
41:02you heard of companies like Genius Sports and Sports Radar?
41:06Heard of them.
41:07Don't follow them, per se.
41:08So they're software.
41:10They're tech companies that basically, they do many things, but part of their offerings
41:14is statistical analysis and like forensics and to stop especially sports, professional
41:22athletes from gambling or to catch any kind of corruption.
41:26Funny business.
41:27Yeah, exactly.
41:27How effective do you think these companies are?
41:30I mean, I think Genius Sports is the one that claims credit for Porter?
41:36No, Calvin Ridley.
41:39Okay.
41:39I think they caught Calvin Ridley.
41:40Okay.
41:41How effective do you think these companies are?
41:43I can't speak too much about both of them because I don't know a ton of data, but based
41:47on what you said, I could speak for this.
41:49Any company that is looking for weird or strange transactions is brilliant because that is a
41:55way to detect problems, let's be honest, if the Guardians pitchers have a, you know, not
42:01them particular, but that case or that situation has all of a sudden $1 million bet on a ball
42:06or a strike and the average bet on that is $28,000 for the year, clearly there's something
42:12going on, especially when you go look at the film and he bounces it 10 feet in front of
42:15the plate.
42:15Right.
42:16So that stuff needs to be done and they need to jump on that quickly.
42:21I actually believe, I don't know those two companies, but I think MLB, NFL, they all
42:26should be having their own company that does all of this.
42:29You know, they should be in link with DraftKings, FanDuel, et cetera.
42:32And sadly, even illegal bookmakers to a degree.
42:36I mean, let's be honest, if people are sharp, they're going to bet it through illegal bookmakers,
42:41not legal.
42:43Because when I was in the business, I wouldn't call federal authorities and say, hey, I just
42:49received millions of dollars in bets, by the way, I'm a bookie, come get me, but I think
42:54something fishy is going on here.
42:55So if there's some sort of way that that could happen as well, I don't know how that would
43:00work, but that would be brilliant.
43:02Because at the end of the day, even illegal bookmakers do not want the integrity of the
43:05game to go away.
43:06Right.
43:07They really don't.
43:07They're just providing a service.
43:09I'll speak for all of them.
43:10I can guarantee you they don't because they'd be out of business.
43:12I was just going to say, yeah, they, everyone involved, legal or illegal, like if the integrity
43:17is out the window, then no one wants to put money down.
43:20I mean, the handle would be half of what it is or less.
43:24And at the end of the day, like as an illegal, ex-illegal bookmaker, I truly enjoyed sports.
43:30I gambled myself.
43:31I enjoy all parts of it.
43:32And I would not want to gamble if I knew the kicker is going to miss on purpose.
43:35Right.
43:35I want to gamble because I'm betting and hoping he makes it or misses it, but not because
43:40he's fixing a game.
43:42So, you know, in terms of, you know, what, um, from your perspective, like how pervasive
43:47is the, um, is, you know, kind of insider trading, if you will, from, from the pro sports world,
43:55like, are you, are we seeing owners, athletes, groundskeepers, you know, I've one illegal,
44:01uh, bookmaker that I, I talk with, I was telling you about him.
44:05Um, who always gets the tip of, uh, what color the Gatorade is for the Superbowl.
44:11And he was right the last two times.
44:13I haven't put money down.
44:15Maybe, maybe this year I will.
44:16Yeah.
44:16But, um, but yeah, how pervasive is it?
44:18Like, is everyone a suspect when it comes to.
44:22Well, that particular, it's funny, the color of the Gatorade I've known prior to me getting
44:26in trouble almost every year for the last 10 years.
44:28And it's because these professional sharp algorithm people, um, they, they go hunting for accounts.
44:34Right.
44:35That's how a bookmaker is going to find out about those particular things.
44:39I'm not going to say, of course, that's, um, the wrong integrity because you were getting
44:43information you already know, at least they're not rigging it per se.
44:46Uh, I think it's a little different than a guy missing a basket.
44:49Yeah.
44:49Uh, it's still the same concept, but that being said, uh, as a bookmaker, they're the first
44:54to know usually, or last because they just got the bet through them and they, they lost.
44:58Right.
44:59But at the end of the day, I heard a lot about tennis.
45:03There's a lot of lower level tennis rigging going on.
45:06Yeah.
45:06Uh, UFC, one major UFC fight, which happened and everybody knows about it.
45:11Right.
45:11Um, they threw that manager out and the fighter, he's out forever.
45:15That stuff is going on in soccer a lot.
45:16Yeah.
45:17Um, those sports in particular, uh, I shouldn't say UFC, just that one I know of, but I, you
45:22know, people could take a dive in that pretty easy, lower paid athletes, like tennis, it's
45:27an individual sport.
45:28Correct.
45:28Yeah.
45:28And here's the thing about tennis.
45:30I could lose a set and still come back and destroy the guy if I'm that much better than
45:35him.
45:35And maybe I just threw a set, but I still won the match.
45:38Yeah.
45:38So.
45:39Right.
45:39Yeah.
45:40That's interesting.
45:40So you're about to surrender October 10.
45:42Um, you're going to serve 12 months in one day, maybe less if, if, um,
45:46you know, things, what's your life going to be like when you get out?
45:52Uh, amazing because I have rebuilding my brand.
45:55I'm sculpting, as I described my book, I'm sculpting a statue of myself and I'm chipping
46:00at it, becoming a better person, a better version of myself.
46:03Um, I've been living my life with, uh, looking over my shoulder for literally the last 30
46:07years.
46:08Yeah.
46:08It was amazing.
46:09I made a lot of money.
46:09I had great memories, but that's still a dark place to live because it doesn't matter
46:14how much money you have.
46:14If you have an empty, you know, emptiness inside that it's, it's a tough way to live.
46:18So even today I'm going to prison.
46:20I'm, I'm probably the best happiest person I've ever been.
46:23I have the best relationship with my wife and kids and yeah, we're going through a really
46:26tough time, but I'm using it as an opportunity to just overcome adversity and be stronger
46:31in the mind.
46:31Yeah.
46:32Yeah.
46:32That's, that's fascinating.
46:33And when you come out, do you think, you know, what are you going to do?
46:36You obviously wrote a book.
46:37You were just telling me you're talking with the director later this afternoon for maybe a
46:41movie about your life, you know, do you see post prison life more like Frank Abagnale
46:47from, you know, the guy catch me if you can, if you've seen that movie, he ended up helping
46:51the feds catch people, kiting checks and all that, or more like Jordan Belfort, like, you
46:57know, doing motivational speeches.
47:00Well, Frank does that too.
47:00Um, right.
47:01Yeah.
47:01He does.
47:02I would say a combination of both.
47:03I don't think I'll be helping federal government with anything.
47:07Cause that's just kind of not my thing.
47:08I don't want to be involved with busting bookmakers.
47:10Yeah.
47:11Uh, I, I would facilitate and help them maybe and make it so there's less integrity is still
47:16involved in sports somehow.
47:18But I think I'm just really inspiring and motivating, making impact on the world by adversity and
47:23teaching them, you know, to avoid these mistakes.
47:25Hopefully athletes, if I could get in front of Dallas Cowboys and Oakland Raiders and,
47:30and save a amazing athlete or college teams from making a major mistake and ruining their
47:35life or career, then that's impactful.
47:37And I can get paid a lot of money to do that.
47:39So that would be a win-win for me.
47:40And that's my plan.
47:41Yeah.
47:42Well, good luck.
47:43And I hope you're, you're, uh, you're, you're serving your sentence goes quickly and thank
47:49you for your time.
47:50Pleasure to meet you.
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